ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.

[bpiphany]

Inverting the design has been discussed before. Originally I planned to make it possible, but in the end I screwed it up slightly. You would probably need to cut some trace going to the USB connector if I remember correctly at the moment. You'd definitely need to bend the IO-expander chips over backwards. And place the Teensy upside down, but that is easy =)

All in all I would recommend you put it together the "standard" way. Mirrored should be seen as a special solution for people not minding the extra programming quirks...

[jdcarpe]

Inverting the design has been discussed before. Originally I planned to make it possible, but in the end I screwed it up slightly. You would probably need to cut some trace going to the USB connector if I remember correctly at the moment. You'd definitely need to bend the IO-expander chips over backwards. And place the Teensy upside down, but that is easy =)

All in all I would recommend you put it together the "standard" way. Mirrored should be seen as a special solution for people not minding the extra programming quirks...

I definitely want to make mine into a "one-hand only" keyboard. It will be useful for typing with one hand, and mousing with the other. I suppose I can teach myself to mouse with my left hand and type with only my right, but I would prefer to do it the other way around.

[SmallFry]

Why would you need to cut a trace? It seems easy enough to just have the Teensy and I/O expander on the bottom as the Teensy will be connected to the USB plug via the mini USB to bare wire.

[bpiphany]

I believe one of the pads on the USB connector is wired to the ground plane. If I hadn't done that the external connector would be completely freely wired to the internal USB on the Teensy. Then you could have chosen to mount it whatever way you want. Putting the USB connector on the bottom still works of course. But that doesn't fit the case I suspect. All components being either 2 lead or through hole are mirrorable, sort of. The Teensy can be put upside down instead of on the back (think the same orientation but translated to the top instead of bottom). The IO expander should be possible to bend backwards as well. Grab all leads with a pair of pliers and turn them all over at once...

[sordna]

I believe one of the pads on the USB connector is wired to the ground plane. If I hadn't done that the external connector would be completely freely wired to the internal USB on the Teensy. Then you could have chosen to mount it whatever way you want.

bpihany, how hard would it be to do a new revision of the PCB with this change? An extra jumper could be used to ground the pin.
Also, there is no silkscreen to indicate where the capacitor goes :-)
More importantly, some of us have concluded that the thumb clusters are too far away. If we make the innermost column key a 1x key, the thumbcluster could move at least 1cm closer to the hands, it's the 2nd solution from the below photo. If we get the corresponding case design changed, we'll have an improved ergodox, possibly in time for the new Massdrop GB, and the keyboard will be more compact too!

[SmallFry]

I believe one of the pads on the USB connector is wired to the ground plane. If I hadn't done that the external connector would be completely freely wired to the internal USB on the Teensy. Then you could have chosen to mount it whatever way you want. Putting the USB connector on the bottom still works of course. But that doesn't fit the case I suspect. All components being either 2 lead or through hole are mirrorable, sort of. The Teensy can be put upside down instead of on the back (think the same orientation but translated to the top instead of bottom). The IO expander should be possible to bend backwards as well. Grab all leads with a pair of pliers and turn them all over at once...

I see that ground plane connection, not a problem to take an XActo knife to that. Now to get my prototype (my personal eDox, before i go fudging up OrangeJewce's) to work when mirrored. I have the Teensy soldered in and I was connecting directly to it. I also put on a diode and firmware onto the Teensy... No dice.

[Jagriff]

How big of a problem is the distance between the thumb cluster? Could someone make a video/picture of the ErgoDox with their hands present for reference?

[wolfv]

How big of a problem is the distance between the thumb cluster? Could someone make a video/picture of the ErgoDox with their hands present for reference?

You can test your hand fit on a standard QWERTY staggered-row keyboard:
Put your right hand on the home row and see where your thumb naturally falls with respect to the G and H keys.
 If your thumb falls under the G key, your thumb would be on the thumb cluster's right key.
 If your thumb falls under the H key, your thumb would fall short of the thumb cluster.

[ic07]

How big of a problem is the distance between the thumb cluster? Could someone make a video/picture of the ErgoDox with their hands present for reference?

You can check out this post (from a while back) too if you like.

What would people think about restaggering the rows, so that the hands move in one key each (putting the first fingers on the g and h keys, and the thumbs on the backspace and enter keys)?  This would place the thumbs more in the center of the cluster, allow the hands to be closer together if one wished, and put more keys on the pinky side (at the expense of having more keys on the first-finger side).

Not that I'd advocate actually doing that... lol .  I doubt moving keys from the first fingers to the pinkies would be popular.  And reprototyping, etc. wouldn't be my favorite thing, so I wouldn't ask anyone else to do it for such a small change.  I'm just curious what people think.

[Halverson]

Ok so I have the QWERTY-KINESIS layout put on my teensy, yet I have no idea where I should be looking to see what the actual layout is. I have most of it figured out, but some keys I have no idea what they are supposed to do. Making my troubleshooting with soldering tricky.

[bearcat]

thanks for the link ic07!

out of curiosity, why would one want to put their hands closer together if they're already using a split keyboard? 

I am currently reprototyping a "minimal" version with a lot less keys, but it's mostly in the "just scratching my own itch" stage.  If there's interest i'll see about making a larger run?  It's also not too tough to mill out one-offs, if you have a design in mind.

[ic07]

Ok so I have the QWERTY-KINESIS layout put on my teensy, yet I have no idea where I should be looking to see what the actual layout is. I have most of it figured out, but some keys I have no idea what they are supposed to do. Making my troubleshooting with soldering tricky.

It sounds like you got the hex file from dropbox?  If so, the zip file it came in should also contain a "firmware--layout.html" file.  Open that up, and it will show you the layout

out of curiosity, why would one want to put their hands closer together if they're already using a split keyboard? 

I am currently reprototyping a "minimal" version with a lot less keys, but it's mostly in the "just scratching my own itch" stage.  If there's interest i'll see about making a larger run?  It's also not too tough to mill out one-offs, if you have a design in mind.

Well... on a normal keyboard the hands are quite close together, closer than is comfortably possible with an ErgoDox.  All other things being equal, I think I prefer the closeness, though it doesn't really bug me either way.

I'll be curious to see your design, when you're finished .  I think I'm content with what I've learned about hardware so far, so I think I'm done with that for now myself - I doubt I'll  step away from the current ErgoDox hardware design unless it's for something fundamentally different.  I do have a few more things to add to the firmware though, before I'm done (coming in the rewrite! probably during the summer now, since spring break is almost over).  And continued innovation on the hardware side is always good too .

[Halverson]

Thank you ic07!! That'll save me!

[Jagriff]

How big of a problem is the distance between the thumb cluster? Could someone make a video/picture of the ErgoDox with their hands present for reference?

You can check out this post (from a while back) too if you like.

Thank you! That's just what I was looking to see. It looks like there are no problems as it is, but that it could be improved if shifted. In the perfect scenario, I would imagine that the thumb resting position would be in the middle of the cluster, not on the edge.

[bisl]

hey out of curiosity can the teensy be magnetted to load a new hex file? Or do you have to remove the top plate to access the onboard reset button every time?

[Larken]

hey out of curiosity can the teensy be magnetted to load a new hex file? Or do you have to remove the top plate to access the onboard reset button every time?

you can load a new hex file by accessing layer 2 where there's a teensy button programmed into the top left corner. It replaces the need to access the physical teensy button.

[bisl]

ah, touche. So it goes

• Open Teensy.exe
• Drag new .hex file into teensy application window
• Use L2+Teensy to initiate load/reset
• Begin typing in new layout

Look about right?

[Larken]

that's right. you'd probably have to press the auto button in the teensy application from my experience too, but as long as you get the "programming > ok reboot" prompt, you're fine.

[islisis]

In the perfect scenario, I would imagine that the thumb resting position would be in the middle of the cluster, not on the edge.

That's an interesting point, even on the kinesis the thumb home position is on the inner-edge thumb key (which are of course BS/space). Seeing the thumb has more inside reach, it would be an interesting to have a another normal size key beside them, making a four column thumbwell

[litster]

Inverting the design has been discussed before. Originally I planned to make it possible, but in the end I screwed it up slightly. You would probably need to cut some trace going to the USB connector if I remember correctly at the moment. You'd definitely need to bend the IO-expander chips over backwards. And place the Teensy upside down, but that is easy =)

All in all I would recommend you put it together the "standard" way. Mirrored should be seen as a special solution for people not minding the extra programming quirks...

I definitely want to make mine into a "one-hand only" keyboard. It will be useful for typing with one hand, and mousing with the other. I suppose I can teach myself to mouse with my left hand and type with only my right, but I would prefer to do it the other way around.

One person posted on GH with his one-handed software.  you type with the same left hand or same right hand on one half of the keyboard.  His software guesses what you are really typing.  For example, to type "this" with only your left hand, you would type "tges"; or to type "this" with only your right hand, you would type "uhil". 

He posted quite a while ago.  Don't have the link handy.  Software like this could possible built into the firmware, but the dictionary would be too large to store in the teensy.

[sordna]

Hey litster, any comment on moving the thumb clusters closer to the hands? See a few posts up, where I posted an doctored image of yours :-)

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg844527#msg844527

[kurplop]

I began some refining on one of the cases and what a difference. I would recommend everyone countersink the top layer and use flathead screws.
 It was easy to do with a simple countersink and looks and feels much better.

Some kind of small tutorial would be really nice for us who have not worked with metal that much before. 

I took some pictures and outlined the steps I used on my case but for some reason (I suspect my incompetence), I was unable to post it. If someone would PM me to help me upload it, some might find it helpful.

On another note, I haven't heard many opinions about the cases, aluminum or acrylic.  Do the acrylic cases go together as hoped? Any alignment issues? My aluminum layers that have a break in the circumference are slightly sprung out of alignment. Not a major problem but need to be compressed a bit for the screws to align. The clearances are also a bit tight and will require some filing for  the pcb to fit properly.

How is everyone dealing with the nuts on the underside. Thick pads? I was thinking about using helicoils on the bottom layers to allow for a flush bottom. Any advice?

[bisl]

acrylics are PERFECT.

[Tafryn]

How is everyone dealing with the nuts on the underside. Thick pads? I was thinking about using helicoils on the bottom layers to allow for a flush bottom. Any advice?

I picked up a bunch of these, http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202210068?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=screw+covers&storeId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=202210068. They work perfectly when you cut them to size. As an added bonus, if you only shorten the back three you can create the slight decline that's supposedly better ergonomically. I think someone else tried cutting pieces of yoga mat to size with some success. That would work better if you want a little more desk contact than seven tiny feet can provide.

[litster]

Hey litster, any comment on moving the thumb clusters closer to the hands? See a few posts up, where I posted an doctored image of yours :-)

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg844527#msg844527

Saw your post.  Nothing I can do.  The case is built based on the PCB design. 

[sordna]

Hey litster, any comment on moving the thumb clusters closer to the hands? See a few posts up, where I posted an doctored image of yours :-)

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg844527#msg844527

Saw your post.  Nothing I can do.  The case is built based on the PCB design. 

Of course, but if bpiphany changes the PCB design, will you be able to change the case design accordingly?

[litster]

Of course, but if bpiphany changes the PCB design, will you be able to change the case design accordingly?

Sure.

[Larken]

I began some refining on one of the cases and what a difference. I would recommend everyone countersink the top layer and use flathead screws.
 It was easy to do with a simple countersink and looks and feels much better.

Some kind of small tutorial would be really nice for us who have not worked with metal that much before. 

I took some pictures and outlined the steps I used on my case but for some reason (I suspect my incompetence), I was unable to post it. If someone would PM me to help me upload it, some might find it helpful.

On another note, I haven't heard many opinions about the cases, aluminum or acrylic.  Do the acrylic cases go together as hoped? Any alignment issues? My aluminum layers that have a break in the circumference are slightly sprung out of alignment. Not a major problem but need to be compressed a bit for the screws to align. The clearances are also a bit tight and will require some filing for  the pcb to fit properly.

How is everyone dealing with the nuts on the underside. Thick pads? I was thinking about using helicoils on the bottom layers to allow for a flush bottom. Any advice?

bought a pack of 3m bumpons and some generic door thingies to create a slight tilt (pic below). the nuts gave my desk a few good deep scratches before I realised how sharp those things were. good thing is was just some random board I was using for a table.

[islisis]

If there is a PCB redesign, wouldn't shifting the thumbwell downwards and adding an extra 1x key on the inside allow users to shift with thumbs easily? Seems to be a popular request.

[mjtorn]

Now available via Massdrop!
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox
(You will need to make an account with them)

Missed the order, a bunch of crap was going down around January

308 people have requested for new keyboards, any plans for a new release?

[mikelanding]

Now available via Massdrop!
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox
(You will need to make an account with them)

Missed the order, a bunch of crap was going down around January

308 people have requested for new keyboards, any plans for a new release?

Round 2 is up: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-2

[OrangeJewce]

Now available via Massdrop!
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox
(You will need to make an account with them)

Missed the order, a bunch of crap was going down around January

308 people have requested for new keyboards, any plans for a new release?

That was a link to the first round.

Here's round 2!

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-2

Cheers,

[sordna]

If there is a PCB redesign, wouldn't shifting the thumbwell downwards and adding an extra 1x key on the inside allow users to shift with thumbs easily? Seems to be a popular request.

If you add extra keys then you'll need firmware changes, and more complex pcb changes.
What we have been discussing is shifting the thumbclusters closer to the hands so you can access them more easily.

[mjtorn]

Here's round 2!

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox-2

Thanks a million! Ordered a classic with blues and blanks, looking forward to getting it

What, only 8 (probably 7 after me) to release the drop - let's spread the word like crazy!

[islisis]

Ah sorry sordna, I shouldn't have said request - just from observations in other ergonomic discussion threads questions about using thumbs for shift comes up quite often. Time will show if it is feasible or not.

[ksm123]

Did any one try to integrate ErgoDox with chair's arm rests?
What route did you take?
What is max length of split halves connector cable? or maybe you've used a wireless controller?

[ElectronicFur]

How much further are the thumb clusters on the Ergodox compared to the Kinesis?

I ask because on the Kinesis already I find it a stretch to reach the furthest keys (Alt, home, end, up, down).

[sordna]

Ah sorry sordna, I shouldn't have said request - just from observations in other ergonomic discussion threads questions about using thumbs for shift comes up quite often. Time will show if it is feasible or not.

No worries. BTW I have been using extra thumb keys (and palm keys) for shift on my modded Kinesis Advantage. but not sure yet if the ergodox needs more. I might add palm keys to it but that's not something I expect the official version to have

[Glod]

joined the party late, was on a business trip

got home yesterday night and spent all last night building it

after finishing i put the firmware on and everything worked! for once no fixing required. successful day is successful!

pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/panicfx/sets/72157633198800512/with/8631586183/



i wanted an incline, and i created  one with sugru, which has spent 12 hours curing, seems hard  enough.
Larken's idea is sooooo much better  than mine.... but eh.  if it works it works



typing  on it now makes me feel so happy,  but  there is a lot of training to do with it

edit: oh btw i ordered 2 ergodox and got one with aluminium case and the other with acrylic, for the fun of it i decided to mix and match the case layers

[haskellelephant]

joined the party late, was on a business trip

got home yesterday night and spent all last night building it

after finishing i put the firmware on and everything worked! for once no fixing required. successful day is successful!

pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/panicfx/sets/72157633198800512/with/8631586183/

i wanted an incline, and i created  one with sugru, which has spent 12 hours curing, seems hard  enough.
Larken's idea is sooooo much better  than mine.... but eh.  if it works it works

typing  on it now makes me feel so happy,  but  there is a lot of training to do with it

edit: oh btw i ordered 2 ergodox and got one with aluminium case and the other with acrylic, for the fun of it i decided to mix and match the case layers

Man, that mixed layers thing looks sick! I just got mine today, I am going to put it together tomorrow (not enough time tonight!)
Btw, what wrist rests are you using? Those go really well with the ergodox!

[judascleric]

I just put in a pull request for adding 3-state sticky key layer function support that functions like sticky keys for modifiers (shift, ctrl, alt, command) in Windows or OS X where you can key in chords by pressing modifiers then alpha-numeric keys sequentially rather than simultaneously. When only keying a single key on a layer, you don't have to pop the layer afterwards, the pop is automatic. If you press the layer sticky key twice, it locks the layer and pressing it a third time to unlocks it.

In my current layout (colemak-jc-mod.c), I have sticky layer keys on the inner most keys on the bottom row, used as thumb switches. These keys toggle a symbol layer which is indispensable for programming. I also have my lower, inner layer keys as sticky layer keys for a numpad/function key layer, though I find I'm more often using the left-hand middle thumb key to do a standard push/pop on this layer for multi-digit numbers and repeated function keys (F6, F7, F8 for debugging).

As with normal layers, you can use kbfun_layer_pop_all() to go back to layer 0 if you get lost.

Here's my fork if anyone is interested:
https://github.com/judascleric/ergodox-firmware
Use "make LAYOUT=colemak-jc-mod" if you want to build with my layout, which is almost this layout https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=EAZJPJ&hash=f8c739b3dbfb1d01500db57fbe1bcefb (minus sticky toggles and manual assignment of kbfun_shift_press_release() to most of the symbol layer).

[Glod]

joined the party late, was on a business trip

got home yesterday night and spent all last night building it

after finishing i put the firmware on and everything worked! for once no fixing required. successful day is successful!

pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/panicfx/sets/72157633198800512/with/8631586183/

i wanted an incline, and i created  one with sugru, which has spent 12 hours curing, seems hard  enough.
Larken's idea is sooooo much better  than mine.... but eh.  if it works it works

typing  on it now makes me feel so happy,  but  there is a lot of training to do with it

edit: oh btw i ordered 2 ergodox and got one with aluminium case and the other with acrylic, for the fun of it i decided to mix and match the case layers

Man, that mixed layers thing looks sick! I just got mine today, I am going to put it together tomorrow (not enough time tonight!)
Btw, what wrist rests are you using? Those go really well with the ergodox!

these: http://www.rakuten.com/prod/handstands-deluxe-laptop-travel-wrist-rest/247713693.html

i found them in a office supply store here, officemax. im sure other places must have them. they work perfect

[r3dx]

Wow! Glod, that sandwiched case looks so awesome. Makes me really glad that I picked up both cases cause I was being indecisive 

[rknize]

PCBs partially built.  Still cleaning up the aluminum cases.  Man, these are rough.

[kurplop]

I marvel at how quickly many of you got your ergodoxes together and running. I had to give it a rest to get my tax returns in but next week I hope to finish mine.
It seems that the aluminum cases are requiring more effort than the acrylic. I would encourage aluminum owners to spend the time and round the edges and
wet sand the exposed surfaces. One sheet of 220, 320, and 400 grit wet and dry sandpaper per side should do it. Sand in the same direction. The finished surface
looks and feels very elegant, you won't be disappointed.

[rknize]

To be honest, the easy part is the final finishing. The hard part is making all the layers the same size. I found that there is quite a bit of variance in the size and squareness of each layer. The laser cutting left things pretty rough. I guess if you don't care how the layers look when they are sandwiched together you can skip trying to make them all the same size and just polish them up.

[jcrouse]

To be honest, the easy part is the final finishing. The hard part is making all the layers the same size. I found that there is quite a bit of variance in the size and squareness of each layer. The laser cutting left things pretty rough. I guess if you don't care how the layers look when they are sandwiched together you can skip trying to make them all the same size and just polish them up.

I got an aluminum and honestly, it is a freaking joke. Anyone that manufactures something like this should be embarrassed.

The edges are VERY rough
There are burrs everywhere
The switch cutouts are NOT square and perpindicular
I had to almost destroy my pcb from grinding the edges to get them to fit in the plate below it.
Screws sticking out the top and bottom(I knew this when I ordered)

and a few more major issues.

They stated no aluminum in GB 2 because the price would be almost double. Well with that phylosophy it is obvious they cut MANY corners to save cost on the aluminum cases in GB 1.

I have posted MANY times defending high cost because of machining chatges and manual labor costs but this is simply awful.

John

[Larken]

To be honest, the easy part is the final finishing. The hard part is making all the layers the same size. I found that there is quite a bit of variance in the size and squareness of each layer. The laser cutting left things pretty rough. I guess if you don't care how the layers look when they are sandwiched together you can skip trying to make them all the same size and just polish them up.

I got an aluminum and honestly, it is a freaking joke. Anyone that manufactures something like this should be embarrassed.

The edges are VERY rough
There are burrs everywhere
The switch cutouts are NOT square and perpindicular
I had to almost destroy my pcb from grinding the edges to get them to fit in the plate below it.
Screws sticking out the top and bottom(I knew this when I ordered)

and a few more major issues.

They stated no aluminum in GB 2 because the price would be almost double. Well with that phylosophy it is obvious they cut MANY corners to save cost on the aluminum cases in GB 1.

I have posted MANY times defending high cost because of machining chatges and manual labor costs but this is simply awful.

John

its the main reason why I switched from ordering the aluminium case to acrylic. I saw the protoype and was sorely disappointed. kurplop's results are awesome but it seems pretty hard to attain that level of consistency. In the end I decided that getting acrylic to spray paint over would be a much easier thing to do, as compared to the preparation work for anodising (not to mention cheaper, better looking and probably easier to work with in terms of sanding)

[rknize]

They are just laser cut and obviously done at a high rate of speed.  MD is wise to ditch it.  One of the layers had a nasty bend in it, but luckily I was able to fix it without fatiguing the aluminum too much.  In the end I think it will look nice, but it's not worth all the hassle.

Too bad they don't offer other colors besides clear.  Black would be a nice choice.

[sordna]

Has any done an 80-key configuration? I guess you'd need to omit or modify the switch plate to do that... but this way you could add shifts to the thumb area without sacrificing other keys:

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?keys=80&referer=BY6MGD&hash=9c04972690a3ecfe92bdbc82534668be