Thread: [Dev-C++] How can I become a great windows programmer?

crazy thing to ask as I know you don't become one overnight, but how can I 
get on and become good at windows programming? I'm specifically asking for 
tutorials on websites, general tips (don't use/do use wizards in VC++), 
things like that.

you guys seem knowledgable, so I thought I'd shoot this one by you. Maybe a 
little OT and I could go searching online for sites, but some of you may be 
able to recommend some.

Daniel





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Hello Daniel and all Dev-C++ users,

Wednesday, November 27, 2002, 4:41:29 PM, Daniel wrote as follows:

DG> crazy thing to ask as I know you don't become one overnight, but how can I 
DG> get on and become good at windows programming? I'm specifically asking for 
DG> tutorials on websites, general tips (don't use/do use wizards in VC++), 
DG> things like that.

Question is really strange... but let me say few things:
-to be good at programming windows app you have to decide how you'll
made them - using MFC, VCL, wxWindows, .NET or in pure WinAPI... well, I use
the last option because I like to see small size of my apps, and the
speed is fastest of mentioned... Yeah, I have write some more code
that I'd have to in i.e. MFC, but these don't matter - I'm master of
my code and I don't have to rely on oversized MFC libs... but choose
one as you shouldn't devide your time into different areas - it's just
waste of it...
-I've chosen WinAPI and there are thousand of examples in C++ in MSDN
and in Platform SDK (which you can download for free from M$ site, it
is also updated fequantly - something like 4 times a year)
-at last, but not least - to be good at something you have to
understand it deeply - I mean every aspect of C++ (templates, exceptions,
OOP) and WinAPI (HANDLEs, msgs, errors, limitations etc.)
- lots of own code...

DG> Daniel

heh, my two grosze...
-- 
regards, Zodiaq

being a professional programmer myself ...

another technique for being a good programmer is learning how to do basic
research using a search engine to find tutorials/information/implementations on
subject matter that is pertinent.

posting questions like this shows no initiative, no aptitude and shows no
respect for the value of other programmers time ...

Tony

--- Zodiaq <zo...@ac...> wrote:
> Hello Daniel and all Dev-C++ users,
> 
> Wednesday, November 27, 2002, 4:41:29 PM, Daniel wrote as follows:
> 
> DG> crazy thing to ask as I know you don't become one overnight, but how can
> I 
> DG> get on and become good at windows programming? I'm specifically asking
> for 
> DG> tutorials on websites, general tips (don't use/do use wizards in VC++), 
> DG> things like that.
> 
> Question is really strange... but let me say few things:
> -to be good at programming windows app you have to decide how you'll
> made them - using MFC, VCL, wxWindows, .NET or in pure WinAPI... well, I use
> the last option because I like to see small size of my apps, and the
> speed is fastest of mentioned... Yeah, I have write some more code
> that I'd have to in i.e. MFC, but these don't matter - I'm master of
> my code and I don't have to rely on oversized MFC libs... but choose
> one as you shouldn't devide your time into different areas - it's just
> waste of it...
> -I've chosen WinAPI and there are thousand of examples in C++ in MSDN
> and in Platform SDK (which you can download for free from M$ site, it
> is also updated fequantly - something like 4 times a year)
> -at last, but not least - to be good at something you have to
> understand it deeply - I mean every aspect of C++ (templates, exceptions,
> OOP) and WinAPI (HANDLEs, msgs, errors, limitations etc.)
> - lots of own code...

=====

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev...@li...
> [mailto:dev...@li...]On Behalf Of Zodiaq
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 11:21 AM
> To: Dev...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Dev-C++] How can I become a great windows programmer?
>
>
> Hello Daniel and all Dev-C++ users,
>
> Wednesday, November 27, 2002, 4:41:29 PM, Daniel wrote as follows:
>
> DG> crazy thing to ask as I know you don't become one overnight,
> but how can I
> DG> get on and become good at windows programming? I'm
> specifically asking for
> DG> tutorials on websites, general tips (don't use/do use wizards
> in VC++),
> DG> things like that.
>
> Question is really strange... but let me say few things:
> -to be good at programming windows app you have to decide how you'll
> made them - using MFC, VCL, wxWindows, .NET or in pure WinAPI...
> well, I use
> the last option because I like to see small size of my apps, and the
> speed is fastest of mentioned... Yeah, I have write some more code
> that I'd have to in i.e. MFC, but these don't matter - I'm master of
> my code and I don't have to rely on oversized MFC libs... but choose
> one as you shouldn't devide your time into different areas - it's just
> waste of it...
> -I've chosen WinAPI and there are thousand of examples in C++ in MSDN
> and in Platform SDK (which you can download for free from M$ site, it
> is also updated fequantly - something like 4 times a year)
> -at last, but not least - to be good at something you have to
> understand it deeply - I mean every aspect of C++ (templates, exceptions,
> OOP) and WinAPI (HANDLEs, msgs, errors, limitations etc.)
> - lots of own code...
>
> DG> Daniel
>
> heh, my two grosze...
> --
> regards, Zodiaq
>

Not such a strange question, and I think you answered it very well.

I would just like to add that if you're thinking at all about crossplatform
compatabilty then wxWindows is the route to go and works nicely with
Dev-Cpp. If you think you'll end up using MS products, better learn MFC and
Visual C++ in addition to the WinAPI (but of course this is the wrong list
for Visual C++ ;-)).

If you're going to stick to the MS Windows platforms and don't care about
using MS tools, go for the WinAPI and use Dev-Cpp.

Ken Bradford
Alpha II Service, Inc.
(614)868-5033

Hi Daniel,

This is an interesting question.

> crazy thing to ask as I know you don't become one overnight, but how can I
> get on and become good at windows programming?
IMHO, the best way to become good at programming (Windows or otherwise) is
to write programs, many programs in whatever fields of application that
interests you. When you do this, you'll find that you'll need to learn more
about programming and matters related to that field and operating system.
That is very good. You find books and search the Internet to find the
required information, understand how it works, then use it in your projects.
As you continue, project after project, you'll learn much more. Each time
you think of a new project, you'll be exercising your creativity skills too.
:-)

>I'm specifically asking for tutorials on websites, general tips (don't
use/do use wizards in VC++),
> things like that.
For Visual C++ programmers, IMHO the best sites are:
1. www.codeproject.com
2. www.codeguru.com

Best Regards,
Yeoh
--
http://www.yeohhs.com
--
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Glenfield" <sp...@ho...>
To: <dev...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 11:41 PM
Subject: [Dev-C++] How can I become a great windows programmer?


> crazy thing to ask as I know you don't become one overnight, but how can I
> get on and become good at windows programming? I'm specifically asking for
> tutorials on websites, general tips (don't use/do use wizards in VC++),
> things like that.
>
> you guys seem knowledgable, so I thought I'd shoot this one by you. Maybe
a
> little OT and I could go searching online for sites, but some of you may
be
> able to recommend some.
>
> Daniel

One problem with writing many programs is that it takes a very long time,
while you learn only a little during each project - if you don't know what
nice algorithms/constructs that are available, it isn't so easy to search
for more indepth information on internet or in books either, and buy a lot
of random books costs a lot of money.

A faster method of learning how to program is to READ code. Download a lot
of code and read it and really try to understand what makes the program
tick. Start with small/simple programs and then progress.

Don't learn how to copy code from other programs - that is copyright
violations - but if you understand how other programs works, you will
easily later come up with working solutions to your own problems.

Any time you just can't understand something about a program, make a
decision. Is it because the code is badly written then ignore it. If it
seems that the original programmer really knew what he was doing, then
spend just about ANY time to find out the function. When you finally
overcomes the problem, it might be a real eye-opener - woow cool...

/Per W

On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Yeoh HS wrote:

> Hi Daniel,
> 
> This is an interesting question.
> 
> > crazy thing to ask as I know you don't become one overnight, but how can I
> > get on and become good at windows programming?
> IMHO, the best way to become good at programming (Windows or otherwise) is
> to write programs, many programs in whatever fields of application that
> interests you. When you do this, you'll find that you'll need to learn more
> about programming and matters related to that field and operating system.
> That is very good. You find books and search the Internet to find the
> required information, understand how it works, then use it in your projects.
> As you continue, project after project, you'll learn much more. Each time
> you think of a new project, you'll be exercising your creativity skills too.
> :-)
> 
> >I'm specifically asking for tutorials on websites, general tips (don't
> use/do use wizards in VC++),
> > things like that.
> For Visual C++ programmers, IMHO the best sites are:
> 1. www.codeproject.com
> 2. www.codeguru.com
> 
> Best Regards,
> Yeoh
> --
> http://www.yeohhs.com
> --
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daniel Glenfield" <sp...@ho...>
> To: <dev...@li...>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 11:41 PM
> Subject: [Dev-C++] How can I become a great windows programmer?
> 
> 
> > crazy thing to ask as I know you don't become one overnight, but how can I
> > get on and become good at windows programming? I'm specifically asking for
> > tutorials on websites, general tips (don't use/do use wizards in VC++),
> > things like that.
> >
> > you guys seem knowledgable, so I thought I'd shoot this one by you. Maybe
> a
> > little OT and I could go searching online for sites, but some of you may
> be
> > able to recommend some.
> >
> > Daniel
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 

Hello Everyone!

PW> One problem with writing many programs is that it takes a very long time,
PW> while you learn only a little during each project

Well,  I  have  to disagree here. I started programming 2 years ago. I
played  too  much  on  PC,  and  so  my  brother told that I should do
something  "useful".  I started from absolute zero (-273 *C), I didn't
even  know  what  was the meaning of "programming". I learned from the
book  "B.W.Kernighan-D.M.Ritchie:  The  C  Programming Language" and I
have  learned  the  basics. I never needed any other book.
I  started  my  first Windows app 1 and 1/2 years ago, it was a simple
program that played Conway's Game of Life. I didn't even know anything
about  memory  handling  that  time,  so  I used static arrays. As the
program  grew, I've read the memory handling things, and pointers from
the  book,  and  I've  learned very interesting things, and I was very
happy,  that I understood pointers. Later I implemented something like
a doubly chained list (sorry, my english) from what I've heard from my
brother YEARS before. I realised later, that this type of list exists,
and is actually used often in programming.
Now,  I  am  at  writing  a  cross-platform free library that plays 2D
Cellular  Automatons  (my  english  again),  and  also  implements   a
(theoretically) endless universe (things like in Life32), rule
handling, reading from files, etc.
I  can tell you, I've learned the most from writing, and struggling on
my own.

So  by  writing  things all by yourself, you can learn MUCH more, than
from  trying  to  understand  often hardly optimised sources. Learning
from code reading is only advised later, when you have strong basics.

Yeoh HS wrote:
>> IMHO, the best way to become good at programming (Windows or otherwise) is
>> to write programs, many programs in whatever fields of application that
>> interests you. When you do this, you'll find that you'll need to learn more
>> about programming and matters related to that field and operating system.
>> That is very good. You find books and search the Internet to find the
>> required information, understand how it works, then use it in your projects.
>> As you continue, project after project, you'll learn much more. Each time
>> you think of a new project, you'll be exercising your creativity skills too.
>> :-)

This is exactly what I think too.

Sorry for the long post.

-- 
Best regards,
 OROSZI Balázs                     mailto:or...@vp...

P.S.: Balázs  is  my first name (means the same as the english Basil).
      Here,  in Hungary we write the names exactly the opposite style,
      than anywhere else :)

You have some very interesting viewpoints.

I'm assuming that the programmer has already covered the basics of C++, OOP,
data structures and algorithms and also using the compiler system.He wants
to move on to higher levels. :-)

Writing many programs do not take a very long time and it does not mean that
you learn only a little during each project. It all depends on the nature,
size and complexity of the program. Start with small projects. Define
precisely what you want to learn from the project. This will determine the
nature of the program. Then look for existing programs that do similar
things. Download them, run them, see how they work. If source code is
available, download it too but don't read them yet.

Get a feel of how other software works, then design your own. Write the code
the best way you know how at this moment. Once you've written your code,
then take a look at what others have done. Compare yours with theirs. See
how they do it. Is it any better?  IMHO this is the best way for me to
learn.

If you don't know how to implement a particular feature, then read their
code to see how they do it. Know why and how to do it, then write your own
code. This OOP thing is great. In most cases, don't re-invent the wheel. Use
other people's code, with their permission of course. Try Open Source codes.
:-)

IMHO, a programmer has to both READ other programmer's code and WRITE your
own code.  When I come to think of it, my ex-bosses, and existing clients
have asked me what programs have I written and not what source codes I've
read. :-)

You have a great day Per Westermark.

Best Regards,
Yeoh
--
P.S. I suppose, each programmer works and learns differently. So find a
method that works and if it works for you, fine. :-)