Thread: [Dev-C++] C#

I'm sure we can all feel it's presence.
And i feel it also oozes Microsoft's presence too.

anyway... i know this is the dev-c++ mailing list, and i love dev-c++, but
since you are all supposedly c++ programmers like me, could someone please
explain to me what is c#? I've read a lot of stuff about it tonight on the
internet, so i know a bit about it.
are any of you learning it?
who should learn it?
what's it really for?
is c++ still going to be as widely used?
or am i way off track in asking that?
i know there is a free c# compiler somewhere (haven't looked into that yet
though), as well as obviously the micro$oft visual c#... is bloodshed
considering starting a c# editor/compiler?
does anyone know much about .NET? it seems i might have to get a bit more of
an understanding of .NET because information on c# assumes you know what
.NET is all about.
the whole .NET and c# thing looks great for all the benefits people are
raving about, but the first thing i felt when i saw so many c# books in a
bookstore and not enough c++ ones is a bit of fear that my native language
is being overridden lol - not exactly a legitimate fear, but hey
so anyway, any information on c# would be appreciated
thanks

ramana

What is C#? I really hate to start learning C++ if it is going to be a 
poor relation to C#.

C# is OOP on Visual Studio .Net.
To me, it was easier to learn than C++. =20
I would go to Microsoft.com to read about C#.
Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: dev...@li...
[mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf Of =
G.C.Harmon
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 2:07 AM
To: dev...@li...
Subject: [Dev-C++] C#

What is C#? I really hate to start learning C++ if it is going to be a=20
poor relation to C#.



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C# is Microsoft language to combat with Java. It has garbage collection
while C++ has no. Microsoft claims its GC is better then Sun Java because C#
GC will work only when system memory is going to be fully occupied.

Also, C# is easier to implement if you need GUI because it is much easier
than MFC.

I hope this can help.

Leon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Edwards" <eri...@sb...>
To: "'G.C.Harmon'" <gc...@gc...>; <dev...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 4:24 PM
Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] C#


> C# is OOP on Visual Studio .Net.
> To me, it was easier to learn than C++.
> I would go to Microsoft.com to read about C#.
> Eric
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev...@li...
> [mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf Of G.C.Harmon
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 2:07 AM
> To: dev...@li...
> Subject: [Dev-C++] C#
>
> What is C#? I really hate to start learning C++ if it is going to be a
> poor relation to C#.
>
>
>
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<html><div style='background-color:'><P>Does anyone know how to write a program that should read two numbers and then find the smaller one and find it's square and then divide by 2<BR><BR></P><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive" color=#ff0000 size=5>K.N.P</FONT></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2734??PS=47575" target="_top">Search, shop, and browse smarter using tabs with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE!</a> </html>

Are the numbers to be read from a file or input from the console?

Is this for a school homework assignment?

 

-----Original Message-----
From: KISHAN PATEL [mailto:pat...@ms...] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 9:22 PM
To: eri...@sb...; gc...@gc...;
dev...@li...
Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] C#

 

Does anyone know how to write a program that should read two numbers and
then find the smaller one and find it's square and then divide by 2





K.N.P




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that was really rather OT...

No, the last time I looked at C# the only thing out there was MS
garbage, and Borland was just beginning to beta their spin on it.=20
However, that was almost 6 months ago, so I really could be
incorrect...

Sorry, nobody knows how to do it in C# with Dev-C++. Dev-C++ is for C and
C++ programs...

/Per W

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005, KISHAN PATEL wrote:

>
> Does anyone know how to write a program that should read two numbers and then find the smaller one and find it's square and then divide by 2
>
>
>
>
> K.N.P
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
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>

C# is the "invention" of a company that got punished for breaking the Java
standard and quickly felt a need for something new to lock customers to
the Win platform.

C# consists of a lot of C++ and a lot of Java.

/Per W

On Tue, 1 Nov 2005, G.C.Harmon wrote:

> What is C#? I really hate to start learning C++ if it is going to be a
> poor relation to C#.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download
> it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
> Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> _______________________________________________
> Dev-cpp-users mailing list
> Dev...@li...
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>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev...@li... 
> [mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf 
> Of Ramana Kumar
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 3:00 PM
> To: C++
> Subject: [Dev-C++] C#
> 
> 
> I'm sure we can all feel it's presence.
> And i feel it also oozes Microsoft's presence too.
> 
> anyway... i know this is the dev-c++ mailing list, and i love 
> dev-c++, but
> since you are all supposedly c++ programmers like me, could 
> someone please
> explain to me what is c#? I've read a lot of stuff about it 
> tonight on the
> internet, so i know a bit about it.
> are any of you learning it?
> who should learn it?
> what's it really for?
> is c++ still going to be as widely used?
> or am i way off track in asking that?
> i know there is a free c# compiler somewhere (haven't looked 
> into that yet
> though), as well as obviously the micro$oft visual c#... is bloodshed
> considering starting a c# editor/compiler?
> does anyone know much about .NET? it seems i might have to 
> get a bit more of
> an understanding of .NET because information on c# assumes 
> you know what
> .NET is all about.
> the whole .NET and c# thing looks great for all the benefits 
> people are
> raving about, but the first thing i felt when i saw so many 
> c# books in a
> bookstore and not enough c++ ones is a bit of fear that my 
> native language
> is being overridden lol - not exactly a legitimate fear, but hey
> so anyway, any information on c# would be appreciated
> thanks


Lets start by explaining what .NET is. .NET is a framework which has a
Just In-Time Compiler like Java Virtual Machine named Common Language
Runtime. When you create programs and compile them, they are "compiled"
to some intermediate bytecode called "Intermediate Language". When you
execute the program, the program is compiled at run time by the CLR
engine and then it is executed. The main difference with JVM, is that
JVM supports only Java while CLR is open to support any language (and so
different languages can interoperate).

.NET provides an API for the CLR which the various languages can use so
as to write programs, and interoperate with one another. C# is a C-style
language (which is another matter of discussion how much C-style is, it
resembles Pascal too) which is restricted entirely to the abilities of
the CLR.


The ideal in programming is to write portable efficient code with the
system dependencies encapsulated in a small portion of the code only. In
the view of .NET, if you want to make your code able to be used by other
.NET languages, you can create a .NET interface to it.


The question if C++ is going to be widely used now that C# has arrived
is a joke, not because of language fanatism but of reality.
C# is not a system programming language. You can not write an Operating
System with it, it is a simple language among others in the .NET world.
You cannot do advanced tasks with it.


.NET, the entire Visual Studio 7 (including the C# compiler), 6 etc, MS
Office, Internet Explorer, Netscape, Microsoft Windows, Virtual Java
Machine, etc are *ALL WRITTEN IN C++*. This is natural, it could not be
done another way.


You can write a C# compiler with C++ but you can't write a C++ compiler
with C#.

This is because C# and C++ design aims are different. C++ is made with a
bias for systems programming (to write OSes etc) with design aims for
writing programs with the maximum space/time efficiency possible, while
C# design aims is to write simple applications.


Also C# is not a normally standardised language, so you cannot find
compiler for it at every system (from water machines to large
mainframes). On the other hand C++ is openly standardised and you can
find a compiler of it *everywhere*, and this will be happening also in
the future (consider for example HTML, etc and other open standards,
they will be always supported).
C# also supports only Object Oriented programming and this not
completely (it doesn't support multiple inheritance etc). If you want to
write a hello world program in C# you have to create a class.


This is the truth, i am not a language fanatic and probably i 'll learn
C# in the future too (which will be very easy after C++, since their
abilities are a subset) as also Java etc.


There is much hype around C# because MS wants to lock in programmers.
The same happens for SUN's Java, Borland's Delphi and other
non-standardised languages.


Read the following interesting article about silver bullets (the above
languages are advertised as panaceas):


http://www.itworld.com/AppDev/710/lw-02-stroustrup/



Ioannis

* Ioannis Vranos
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.cjb.net
* Alternative URL: http://run.to/noicys

Ioannis, et al.,

> There is much hype around C# because MS wants to lock in programmers.
> The same happens for SUN's Java, Borland's Delphi and other
> non-standardised languages.

While I have not seen anything from Borland (I really haven't looked), the
local Delphi SIG says that Borland has announced that the next version of
Delphi will be fully .NET compatible. The concern in the Delphi community is
that Microsoft will turn is back on .NET if it does not live up to its
promise and Borland will be left holding the bag.

Regards,

Bob Wilson

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev...@li... 
> [mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf 
> Of Bob Wilson
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 7:36 PM
> To: Dev-C++ User Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Dev-C++] C#
> 
> 
> Ioannis, et al.,
> 
> > There is much hype around C# because MS wants to lock in 
> programmers.
> > The same happens for SUN's Java, Borland's Delphi and other
> > non-standardised languages.
> 
> While I have not seen anything from Borland (I really haven't 
> looked), the
> local Delphi SIG says that Borland has announced that the 
> next version of
> Delphi will be fully .NET compatible. The concern in the 
> Delphi community is
> that Microsoft will turn is back on .NET if it does not live up to its
> promise and Borland will be left holding the bag.


Some *very important thing* many of you may not know. .NET is not a
Windows API. Windows & .NET will *coexist* for some time. As the time
passes .NET will be growing indepedently and coexisting with Windows.
The last thing about this coexistence that i have heared, is it will
continuw till "Blackcomb" which would be the last Windows version! I do
not know if this coexistence has been extended in the future, but
Windows & .NET will not coexist forever!

.NET is a separate engine and provides graphics etc APIs.


Ioannis

* Ioannis Vranos
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.cjb.net
* Alternative URL: http://run.to/noicys

So C# doesn't differ much from Java? The hype is even bigger than I
thought. The Microsoft fanboys say "I can hear Java 2 developers crying
already because .NET and C# will blow them away"...


On Mon, 2002-07-01 at 18:24, Ioannis Vranos wrote:
> 
> Lets start by explaining what .NET is. .NET is a framework which has a
> Just In-Time Compiler like Java Virtual Machine named Common Language
> Runtime. When you create programs and compile them, they are "compiled"
> to some intermediate bytecode called "Intermediate Language". When you
> execute the program, the program is compiled at run time by the CLR
> engine and then it is executed. The main difference with JVM, is that
> JVM supports only Java while CLR is open to support any language (and so
> different languages can interoperate).
> 
> .NET provides an API for the CLR which the various languages can use so
> as to write programs, and interoperate with one another. C# is a C-style
> language (which is another matter of discussion how much C-style is, it
> resembles Pascal too) which is restricted entirely to the abilities of
> the CLR.
> 
> 
> The ideal in programming is to write portable efficient code with the
> system dependencies encapsulated in a small portion of the code only. In
> the view of .NET, if you want to make your code able to be used by other
> .NET languages, you can create a .NET interface to it.
> 
> 
> The question if C++ is going to be widely used now that C# has arrived
> is a joke, not because of language fanatism but of reality.
> C# is not a system programming language. You can not write an Operating
> System with it, it is a simple language among others in the .NET world.
> You cannot do advanced tasks with it.
> 
> 
> .NET, the entire Visual Studio 7 (including the C# compiler), 6 etc, MS
> Office, Internet Explorer, Netscape, Microsoft Windows, Virtual Java
> Machine, etc are *ALL WRITTEN IN C++*. This is natural, it could not be
> done another way.
> 
> 
> You can write a C# compiler with C++ but you can't write a C++ compiler
> with C#.
> 
> This is because C# and C++ design aims are different. C++ is made with a
> bias for systems programming (to write OSes etc) with design aims for
> writing programs with the maximum space/time efficiency possible, while
> C# design aims is to write simple applications.
> 
> 
> Also C# is not a normally standardised language, so you cannot find
> compiler for it at every system (from water machines to large
> mainframes). On the other hand C++ is openly standardised and you can
> find a compiler of it *everywhere*, and this will be happening also in
> the future (consider for example HTML, etc and other open standards,
> they will be always supported).
> C# also supports only Object Oriented programming and this not
> completely (it doesn't support multiple inheritance etc). If you want to
> write a hello world program in C# you have to create a class.
> 
> 
> This is the truth, i am not a language fanatic and probably i 'll learn
> C# in the future too (which will be very easy after C++, since their
> abilities are a subset) as also Java etc.
> 
> 
> There is much hype around C# because MS wants to lock in programmers.
> The same happens for SUN's Java, Borland's Delphi and other
> non-standardised languages.
> 
> 
> Read the following interesting article about silver bullets (the above
> languages are advertised as panaceas):
> 
> 
> http://www.itworld.com/AppDev/710/lw-02-stroustrup/
> 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hongli Lai [mailto:h....@ch...] 
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 9:19 PM
> To: Ioannis Vranos
> Cc: Dev-C++ Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] C#
> 
> 
> So C# doesn't differ much from Java? The hype is even bigger than I
> thought. The Microsoft fanboys say "I can hear Java 2 
> developers crying
> already because .NET and C# will blow them away"...


C# utilizes all facilities provided by .NET (and nothing more) as Java
utilizes all facilities provideed by its framework.


I do not know the differences between .NET and Java's framework. The
main difference that i know is that all .NET facilities can be used by
other languages too while the framework of Java can be used only by
Java. So in a sense, "C# is primary the language of .NET" in the sense
that it uses only .NET types and facilities.

The funny thing is that Borland prepares its C# killer code-named
Charlotte. They claim that you can not discern between it and the .NET
itself at all, that is it will be "better" than C#.

Myself believe that .NET is Yet Another API, and i am not so fanatic
about it. I 'll learn it of course beginning from this week. :)



Ioannis

* Ioannis Vranos
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.cjb.net
* Alternative URL: http://run.to/noicys

Monday, July 1, 2002, 9:29:44 AM, you wrote:

RK> are any of you learning it?
RK> who should learn it?

Or, which should you start with?

RK> what's it really for?
RK> is c++ still going to be as widely used?
RK> or am i way off track in asking that?
RK> i know there is a free c# compiler somewhere (haven't looked into that yet
RK> though),

Can someone point it out?

RK> considering starting a c# editor/compiler?
RK> does anyone know much about .NET? it seems i might have to get a bit more of
RK> an understanding of .NET because information on c# assumes you know what
RK> .NET is all about.

I have C++ .Net.  It is real complicated, couldn't figure it out. So I got Dev C++.

The program has no documentation at all.

Adam,

> I have C++ .Net.  It is real complicated, couldn't figure it out. So I got
Dev C++.

If you are having trouble with the IDE, you might consider "Beginning Visual
C++ 6" by Ivar Horton. The entire book uses VC++ 6.0 and it greatly
simplifies the Visual Studio learning curve. Admittedly, C++ .NET, or Visual
C++ 7.0 if you prefer, is a little bit different, but the differences are
not that great in terms of the user interface. The book lists for $49.00,
but you can get it for much less. Amazon.com lists the book for 34.99 new
and 29.99 used. You might find it at your local library, but I doubt it.

Regards,

Bob Wilson