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Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
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Author
Dr. N. Subramanian
Message
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:21 pm
Post subject:
General Sponsor
sriprakash_shastry wrote:
Dear Mr. Dingare,
In PEB buildings the point raised by a fellow SEFIAN is correct. If the rod bracing undergoes
reversal of stresses and goes into compression it will fail. That is why it is important to note
the way the rod bracing is connected to the column. In all PEB buildings were rod bracing is
used it is connected to the PEB columns by means of a hill top washer. A hill top washer has a
bevelled surface which enables the bracing to move. So in the event the rod bracing is tending
to go into compression the bracing will move into a position wherein it cannot accept any
compression.
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 4846
Location: Gaithersburg, MD,
U.S.A.
Due to the above rod bracings are designed as pure tension member. However, this does not
absolve the vendor of any liabilities arising out of not pre-tensioning the rod bracing before
installation.
Regards,
Sriprakash
Dear Er Sriprakash,
I was happy to read the technical note on study of cracks in reinforced concrete members
authored by you and your brother in the Jan. 2013 issue of ICJ. Congratulations!
Regards,
NS
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[Link]
Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:46 am
Post subject: PRE ENGINEERING BUILDING TENSION BRACINGS
SEFI Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 2
Dear Sefians
In the Pre engineering building which are designed as per MBMA , PEB Vendors provides rod
bracings .
They state following points
[Link] bracing are designed for Tension only.
2. The Tension rods need not be check by L/rmin.
3. The rod bracing can not take any kind of compression force. because they are providing HILL
side washer .
I have some doubt
1. As X tension rods will act as tension only when if at their joints with rafter one horizontal
member will provided, which will take compression force.
IN PEB shed they are not providing that horizontal member.
then X rod bracing will act as compression and tension.
2. how hill side washer allows tension will only create.
20-01-2015 17:20
[Link] :: View topic - Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
2 of 9
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Please throw focus on above subject Also guide if any book available for designing as per MBMA
system
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ibarua
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:30 am
Post subject: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
General Sponsor
22nd May 2013
Yes, the X bracings will have both tensile & compressive forces -- one diagonal leg of the X will be
in tension and the other in compression, which will be reversed when the wind reverses its
direction.
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 1004
It is inconvenient for the PEB vendors to consider compression because they want to economize
by providing round bar bracings which will have a very high Le/r ratio. That's why they try to get
around the problem by providing various gadgets to convince us that compressive forces will just
vanish just because certain gizmos are provided.
The assumptions made by PEB vendors are contrary to the actual structural response..
Indrajit Barua.
From: [Link] <forum@[Link]>
Sent: Wed, 22 May 2013 [Link]
To: general@[Link]
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
Dear Sefians
In the Pre engineering building which are designed as per MBMA , PEB Vendors provides rod
bracings .
They state following points
[Link] bracing are designed for Tension only.
2. The Tension rods need not be check by L/rmin.
3. The rod bracing can not take any kind of compression force. because they are providing HILL
side washer .
I have some doubt
1. As X tension rods will act as tension only when if at their joints with rafter one horizontal
member will provided, which will take compression force.
IN PEB shed they are not providing that horizontal member.
then X rod bracing will act as compression and tension.
2. how hill side washer allows tension will only create.
Please throw focus on above subject Also guide if any book available for designing as per MBMA
system
Posted via Email
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dinagaran
Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:44 pm
Post subject:
SEFI Member
Hi Everyone,
Joined: 15 Sep 2011
Posts: 1
I am Raju Dinagaran, MD Emmardesteel, PEB Consultant from Pondicherry. Previously I worked in
PRD Department in Mammut Building systems, UAE. We have studied in depth about the concepts
adopted in PEB.
Let me brief about the understanding of bracing system with which I am convinced.
1. When force hits the diagonal tension bracing (Theoretical). It tries to compress the rod/ cable
(tension member).
2. Since rod/ cable cannot take compression, it buckles which means it will be in a state of no
longer to withstand the load.
3. At this time the force will try to flow in the same horizontal path. If we have provided any
horizontal member it will flow till the end of member and pull the other diagonal member
(tension) which will be resisted anyway.
4. The same scenario will follow in case of load from other direction.
20-01-2015 17:20
[Link] :: View topic - Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
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5. Technically, only one diagonal member will be effective in transferring the force.
6. Now the question comes, when there is no horizontal member provided how the force will
flow?. The answer is when force hits the starting point of bracing and when there is no horizontal
member, then the force will try to push the frame. But the frame is longitudinally arrested by
means of purlins and flange braces. Thus the resistance is offered by the row of purlin just above
the bracing point.
6. Technically we design the purlin above bracing node for compression + bending. Based on the
force we provide either simple purlin or strut purlin (laced purlin) or strut tube.
I got convinced by doing a small model in sticks and cardboard.
You can try the same.
Note : PEB is a concept not a product.
Regards,
Dinagaran
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sandeep_chauhan
Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:51 am
Post subject:
General Sponsor
Dear All,
Roof & wall bracing ofen consist of double diagonals which are so
slender as to have negligible capacity in compression. such members
include pretensioned rods and cables. In the design of double
diagonal tension bracing, one of each pair of diagonals is assumed to
act in tension & other diagonal is ignored(depending on direction of
wind/Seismic load ).
Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 110
Regards
Sandeep Chauhan
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krane
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:13 am
Post subject: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
SEFI Member
Dear All,
Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Posts: 7
Rod bracing is the most prevailing solution for structural cross bracing in metal building systems.
Because of low weight, simple erection, rod bracing is commonly considered the most efficient
election for the braced frame diagonals and roof bracing.
Coming to the force transfer, diagonal tension will be carried by rod which will be active
depending on force transfer. Compression force component at the end of rod will be taken care by
strut purlin member or separate strut member.
Attachment : the web slot connection is the preferred solution due to its simplicity and low relative
cost. Each rod assembly consists of rod, ductile hillside washer, flat hardened washer and a hex
nut. The configuration has a self adjustment capability as each side if the rod protruding through
the web slot may be tightened until the required straightness is achieved.
Numerous numbers of technical papers are available and test conducted to prove this technology.
Do let me know if you have any further query in this regard.
Sent from my iPhone
On 22-May-2013, at 6:17 PM, "ibarua" <forum@[Link] (forum@[Link])> wrote:
Quote:
22nd May 2013
Yes, the X bracings will have both tensile & compressive forces -- one diagonal leg of the X will
be in tension and the other in compression, which will be reversed when the wind reverses its
direction.
It is inconvenient for the PEB vendors to consider compression because they want to
economize by providing round bar bracings which will have a very high Le/r ratio. That's why
they try to get around the problem by providing various gadgets to convince us that
compressive forces will just vanish just because certain gizmos are provided.
20-01-2015 17:20
[Link] :: View topic - Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
5 of 9
[Link]
The assumptions made by PEB vendors are contrary to the actual structural response..
Indrajit Barua.
From: [Link]
Sent: Wed, 22 May 2013 [Link]
To: general@[Link] (general@[Link])
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
Dear Sefians
In the Pre engineering building which are designed as per MBMA , PEB Vendors provides rod
bracings .
They state following points
[Link] bracing are designed for Tension only.
2. The Tension rods need not be check by L/rmin.
3. The rod bracing can not take any kind of compression force. because they are providing
HILL side washer .
I have some doubt
1. As X tension rods will act as tension only when if at their joints with rafter one horizontal
member will provided, which will take compression force.
IN PEB shed they are not providing that horizontal member.
then X rod bracing will act as compression and tension.
2. how hill side washer allows tension will only create.
Please throw focus on above subject Also guide if any book available for designing as per
MBMA system
Posted via Email
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Kishor Patil
Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 5:58 am
Post subject: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
SEFI Member
yes i fully agree with mr. krishnankant rane.
Sent from Samsung Mobile
Joined: 20 Apr 2011
Posts: 7
krane <forum@[Link]> wrote:
Dear All,
Rod bracing is the most prevailing solution for structural cross bracing in metal building systems.
Because of low weight, simple erection, rod bracing is commonly considered the most efficient
election for the braced frame diagonals and roof bracing.
Coming to the force transfer, diagonal tension will be carried by rod which will be active
depending on force transfer. Compression force component at the end of rod will be taken care by
strut purlin member or separate strut member.
Attachment : the web slot connection is the preferred solution due to its simplicity and low relative
cost. Each rod assembly consists of rod, ductile hillside washer, flat hardened washer and a hex
nut. The configuration has a self adjustment capability as each side if the rod protruding through
the web slot may be tightened until the required straightness is achieved.
Numerous numbers of technical papers are available and test conducted to prove this technology.
Do let me know if you have any further query in this regard.
Sent from my iPhone
On 22-May-2013, at 6:17 PM, "ibarua" forum@[Link])> wrote:
20-01-2015 17:20
[Link] :: View topic - Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
[Link]
--auto removed-Posted via Email
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dipak_bhattacharya
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:57 pm
Post subject: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
Progressive Member
Dear Krane, Can you please send some detailings in pdf formats?
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 41
On 24 May 2013 17:47, krane <forum@[Link] (forum@[Link])> wrote:
[quote]
Dear All,
Rod bracing is the most prevailing solution for structural cross bracing in metal building systems.
Because of low weight, simple erection, rod bracing is commonly considered the most efficient
election for the braced frame diagonals and roof bracing.
Coming to the force transfer, diagonal tension will be carried by rod which will be active
depending on force transfer. Compression force component at the end of rod will be taken care by
strut purlin member or separate strut member.
Attachment : the web slot connection is the preferred solution due to its simplicity and low relative
cost. Each rod assembly consists of rod, ductile hillside washer, flat hardened washer and a hex
nut. The configuration has a self adjustment capability as each side if the rod protruding through
the web slot may be tightened until the required straightness is achieved.
Numerous numbers of technical papers are available and test conducted to prove this technology.
Do let me know if you have any further query in this regard.
Sent from my iPhone
On 22-May-2013, at 6:17 PM, "ibarua" forum@[Link] (forum@[Link]))> wrote:
--auto removed-Posted via Email
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ibarua
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:30 am
Post subject: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
General Sponsor
3rd June 2013
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 1004
The method suggested by the responder is convenient for the PEB vendor and therefore is
popular. Whatever one claims, one diagonal leg of the 'X' will be in compression. The solution is to
prevent the deflection of the column top under wind load and not to transfer any horizontal action
to the purlin, something that a purlin member is not designed to sustain.
The web slot connection is but a convenient way of dealing with the problem, and in my opinion is
not a solution.
However, I welcome details of authenticated tests conducted by an independent agency on actual
physical models for my study and appreciation.
Indrajit Barua.
6 of 9
20-01-2015 17:20
[Link] :: View topic - Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
7 of 9
[Link]
From: krane <forum@[Link]>
Sent: Fri, 24 May 2013 [Link]
To: general@[Link]
Subject: [SEFI] Re: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
Dear All,
Rod bracing is the most prevailing solution for structural cross bracing in metal building systems.
Because of low weight, simple erection, rod bracing is commonly considered the most efficient
election for the braced frame diagonals and roof bracing.
Coming to the force transfer, diagonal tension will be carried by rod which will be active
depending on force transfer. Compression force component at the end of rod will be taken care by
strut purlin member or separate strut member.
Attachment : the web slot connection is the preferred solution due to its simplicity and low relative
cost. Each rod assembly consists of rod, ductile hillside washer, flat hardened washer and a hex
nut. The configuration has a self adjustment capability as each side if the rod protruding through
the web slot may be tightened until the required straightness is achieved.
Numerous numbers of technical papers are available and test conducted to prove this technology.
Do let me know if you have any further query in this regard.
Sent from my iPhone
On 22-May-2013, at 6:17 PM, "ibarua" <forum@[Link] (forum@[Link])> wrote:
--auto removed-Posted via Email
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arvind_kumar49
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:18 pm
Post subject: Bracing rods in PEB - slenderness
SEFI Member
Dear Yogesh,
Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 17
It is nice that you have raised some basic issue related to transfer of forces.
It is basic question on use of rod as bracing not only PEB but in structure in general including Sag
rod in roof and cladding.
The concept is historical , when we had to do manual analysis of structure. Structural analysis
software was not developed.
The following are the basics:
1. Lateral force applied on vertical frame with cross bracing, only one diagonal member (rod) will
be effective, other diagonal member will buckle and become [Link] check is done
to ascertain that rod is allowed to buckle such that it is within elastic limit.
(In case of sag rod, it is configured such that DL will cause tension in sag rod.)
2. Lateral force applied on vertical frame with cross bracing, will cause tension in one diagonal
member
(rod) and compression in one column (where top end of this diagonal member is
connected).
3. There has to be a tie beam connecting the columns of braced frame and this will be further
connecting other columns so that horizontal force generated at any column is transferred to the
braced bay (effective diagonal as tension force).
20-01-2015 17:20
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8 of 9
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4. The tie beam connecting the braced columns shall be subjected to compressive force.
5. If tie beam is not provided, nearest available purlin in slope roof or floor beam in case of flat
roof/floor will act as tie beam(say virtual tie beam). The connection between column and virtual
tie beam will be eccentric through a beam/ top chord of truss will be not be d to top of column,
thus beam/ top chord of truss will be subjected to horizontal moment.
6. Available commercial software on structural analysis has option to define a member as "tension
only member" to simulate above in analysis model. Similarly off set option can be used in
analysis model to account for eccentricity.
I hope it clarifies the matter.
Regards
Arvind Kumar
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 5:16 PM, [Link] <forum@[Link]
(forum@[Link])> wrote:
Quote:
Dear Sefians
In the Pre engineering building which are designed as per MBMA , PEB Vendors provides rod
bracings .
They state following points
[Link] bracing are designed for Tension only.
2. The Tension rods need not be check by L/rmin.
3. The rod bracing can not take any kind of compression force. because they are providing
HILL side washer .
I have some doubt
1. As X tension rods will act as tension only when if at their joints with rafter one horizontal
member will provided, which will take compression force.
IN PEB shed they are not providing that horizontal member.
then X rod bracing will act as compression and tension.
2. how hill side washer allows tension will only create.
Please throw focus on above subject Also guide if any book available for designing as per
MBMA system
Posted via Email
Back to top
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