Forum 2 | Jesus/Money
Why is money such a difficult topic, regardless of
culture?
250 word post.
Money A real power
No matter what culture we live, it is an undeniable fact that money provides power, prestige and
independency. Christians became naive wanting to convince not Christian, that money will not give
them happiness; but is so difficult to persuade that someone will not be happy if have the money to
buy everything he wants; travel where he wants to, and enjoy all the pleasures he wants; not even the
Bible denies this reality: Look at these wicked people enjoying a life of ease while their riches
multiply.1; of course, although the Bible does not also refute the money temporality, and power
limitation to this world.
When money becomes the peoples master, has the power to make them believe that they are
independent, and it is precisely this sense of autonomy that making the money a tough opponent
before the message of exclusive dependence and submission to God. The money offers to the people
themselves become the "lord who controls their life", and the biblical option is that the "Lord controls
my life"; obviously the first option is more tempting for most people. But this fight is not exclusive of
non-Christians, Jesus disciples are tempted to emancipate themselves from the dominion of God on
their lives also, when they lose sight of that money is only a "tool" in this world.
What concrete action could we suggest someone who is not Christian, so that money should be only a
"tool" and not the "lord" in his life?
No importa en qu cultura vivamos, es un hecho innegable que el dinero da poder, prestigio y
felicidad. Muchas veces, los cristianos hemos sido ingenuos al querer convencer a las personas que no
son cristianas, que el dinero no les dar felicidad, ni les abrir muchas puertas; cmo podemos
sustentar ante alguien que no ser feliz si tiene el dinero para comprar todo lo que desea, viajar a
donde quiere viajar y disfrutar de todos los placeres que desee?; ni siquiera en la Biblia encontramos
que se niega esta realidad: Why do the wicked prosper, growing old and powerful? 2 Look at these
wicked people enjoying a life of ease while their riches multiply. 3; por supuesto, aunque la Biblia
no niega la felicidad que el dinero da al hombre en este mundo, tampoco niega su temporalidad y
limitacin de poder a ste mundo.
Cuando el dinero se convierte en amo de las personas, tiene la facultad de hacerles creer que son
independientes; y es precisamente este sentimiento de autonoma lo que lo convierte un duro rival
ante el mensaje de dependencia y sumisin exclusiva ante Dios, que presenta el evangelio. Por tal
motivo, ante la opcin que el dinero ofrece, de ser yo el seor que controla mi vida y la opcin
bblica de tener al Seor controlando mi vida, obviamente la primera resulta ms tentadora para la
mayora de las personas. Pero esta lucha no es exclusiva de los no cristianos, el cristiano es tentado a
emanciparse del seoro de Dios sobre su vida, cuando pierde de vista que el dinero es solo un
instrumento en este mundo.
Qu accin/conducta concreta (no idea) podra sugerir a alguien que no es cristiano, para que el
dinero sea un instrumento y no el seor de su vida?
1 Psalms 73:12 (NIV)
2 Job 21:7 (NIV)
3 Psalms 73:12 (NIV)
Replying to Classmates
6 replies of 150-200 words.
Money a difficult topic. Where is your treasure?
by Robert Stevenson - Wednesday, September 11, 2013, 11:08 PM
Is it wrong to have a nice savings account? What is a Christian standard of living?
Reply
Bendiciones Roberto,
Interesting questions; paradoxically, many years ago I fought with guilts sense, due to the blessing of
having a respectable lifes standard within a poverty environment.
Im understanding nice as sufficient savings to face unexpected events (i.e. medical
emergencies), and to cover some non usual expenses (i.e. Malls shopping, meals at restaurants, etc);
considering that I think that having savings shown a good stewardship of the Gods provision; the
wrong to me, is when falling in an extreme, we resist to use money because we find delight or security
having a many zeros savings account.
Regarding the Christian standard of living, I believe that this would be determined according two
criteria: a) My actual reality, and b) Dignity. About actual reality Im referring not to live a life style of
beyond I can sustain; many people, inclusive Christians are living credit card lives. With Dignity, Im
thinking in a life style that not reduces my value as Gods creature; it means that I can have a simple
lifes style but with dignity, and also I can have a style full of luxury that undeserving my person by
excess.
How my Christian standard of living could set an example of biblical dignity?
Sin
by Marshall Lillie - Monday, September 23, 2013, 03:38 PM
The long and short answer for why money is such a difficult topic regardless of culture is the problem
of sin. The tenth commandment as listed in Exodus chapter 20, verse 17 (also Deuteronomy 5, verse
21) addresses this problem. Not only do men want more money they can get on their own, they want
everyone else's money. The admonitions in Scripture about the lust of the eyes (see Joshua 7:21 and 1
John 2:16) are not only a warning of against sexual immorality, but also also a warning against
coveting things/money that do not belong to you.
James chapter 1, verse 15 gives us the progression that begins with lust or desire that proceeds to sin
then to death. When we look at the progression in the pursuit of money we see that it is possible to
identify in the search by some people the progression used by Paul in his first letter to Timothy (1
Timothy 6:10) of longing, the wandering away, then torturing one's self over the worry about the care
of what they have accumulated and the worry that they won't be able to get more soon enough to
satisfy their desire for more.
Jesus states the equation we must identify for ourselves and all who are searching for money or riches:
It is harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of
God. (Matthew 19:24).
So the question is: do we as Christians really believe what God has commanded to be written in His
Word concerning wealth and its accumulation?
Reply
Blessings Pastor,
You posted an interesting question, and I agree with you that the root of the
problem with money is the sin; but honestly, I dont believe that the Gods advice in
His word is against to accumulate wealth (Im understanding it as to increase our
money amount); in fact, the Bible relate many events, and there are many quotes
declaring that the wealth is a Gods blessings, especially when God use our honest
and hard work, to provide it to us.
Of course, when we lose the north and put our heart and priority and the blessing of
the money converting it in the lord of our lives is when we succumbed before the
sin.
In Latin-American sadly, through the years we have been reinforcing the belief that,
being poor is an indicator that you are good Christian, and when you become rich is
because you are a sinner.
So, Are we as Christians prepared to be wealthy? Is the church forming a wealthy
culture among the congregation? (Im not talking about the aberrant Prosperitys
Theology) What do you think?
Shalom
Too Masters: God or Mammon.
by Jethro Souffrance - Thursday, September 19, 2013, 02:44 PM
In all the ages, societies and cultures, mostly, money takes an undeserved place.
From the Old Testament we see how the mankind is covetous (Achan, Joshua 7). Later, what
astonishment! One of the disciples of Jesus categorically would say: Lets not honor the master with
this costly perfume. Matthew 26:9. Money is such a difficult topic because:
1- People are sinking in the worldly anxiety.
For clarifying it, Calvin brings fourth two symptoms: a certain preference and a certain prevention.
Calvin says: To crave wealth and honor, to demand power, to pile up riches, to gather all those vanities
which seems to make for pomp and empty display, that is our furious passion and unbounded desire.
On the other hands, we fear and abhor poverty, obscurity and humility, and we seek to avoid them by
all means. [1]
2- People prioritize wealth in their life. (Luke 12:13-21), a rich man was rejoicing for his fortune while
he was about to die unexpectedly.
3- People are ungrateful. (1 Chronicles 29:14) Giving to God anything is a privilege as the thing comes
from Him.
The Lord can do everything without money; we should understand how blessed we are by withdrawing
something from ours for Gods purpose. Doctor Matt asserts: Our checkbooks and credit card bills
reveal much about us [...] and most important about our commitment toward and faith in God.[2]
Is Calvin totally right in this context by saying we fear and abhor humility?
Reply
Salut Jethro,
You and me are living in the two of poorest countries in Latin America and
Caribbean; for this reason, is difficult to me to agree that Calvin said, at least in my
context.
He is saying the humility and poverty go hand in hand, and to me this message
seems to reinforce that we need to continue living in poverty if we want to be
humbles; to preach this will not dignify the people. I strongly believe that people
can be humble and get out of poverty at same time. To me poverty is not
synonymous of humility.
You settled three key points: Worldly anxiety, money prioritization and ungrateful,
and same to you, I think that these dont make a good combination with the money,
but what happen if we see the other side of the coin and consider people that are:
Confident in God, have God as priority in his/her life and are grateful; Could be this
people make an appropriate use of the money and wealthy? Is possible to teach this
kind of mindset in the children of our churches? What do you think?
Shalom
Dependent on Money
by Cyd Landing - Saturday, September 21, 2013, 11:23 AM
Money is not only a difficult topic it is a place most church leaders either approach with kid gloves or
hammer people with. When they give a message concerning money they are in sensitive territory
because most people are in the place where they are relying on money as their sole provider and God
in addition to that. Or they depend on God then money. It is not the fault of man it is the condition of
man because it is learned behavior. We do what we are taught or modeled before us. Most homes and
society teach that money makes the world go around. It is true that we need money to function but
we dont put God first so we think money even tithing or giving is the power of money.
Wesley makes a statement in sermon 50 about the trained/learned behavior I am referring to. 6. And
why should you throw away money upon your children, any more than upon yourself, in delicate food,
in gay or costly apparel, in superfluities of any kind Why should you purchase for them more pride or
lust, more vanity, or foolish and hurtful desires They do not want any more; they have enough already;
nature has made ample provision for them: Why should you be at farther expense to increase their
temptations and snares, and to pierce them through with more sorrows.[1] I believe that this will be a
constant issue because of the fact that most people come into this knowledge later in life as it is
revealed by God. Then is when we have to retrain our way of thinking or fight against the temptation
to revert back to it.
Blessings Cyd,
You did reference to a key issue: Education. How do we learn to use money? Usually
we learn how using money watching people use it. Grow up in an environment,
where money is used only to satisfy selfs desires as: avarice, lust, fashion, luxury,
etc., increase the probability that continue using the money in the same way. But
when the children observe parents giving tithe, offering, sharing with others, saving,
etc; the chance they see the money as a gratitude, and beneficial tool increase also.
The church could support also, including in their Sunday school curricula topics
related with the good use of the money; probably in America you already do it; I
believe that in my local church we have space to improve it.
But being realistic, the problem is more complex, the Bible says: Wherever your
treasure is, there the desires of your heart will also be. (Luke 12:34, NLT); we could
have information regarding how to use money, but if God does not have the first
place in our heart this information not is relevant.
How can we influence our children to use money as a tool to please God and help us
to live with dignity?
Shalom
IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!!
by Aaron Williams - Thursday, September 19, 2013, 07:55 PM
"It's none of your business!" This is a phrase often used at the forefront of many conversations relating
to money. Money is difficult because it is so personal. Talking about someone's personal life is, as
some say, out of bounds. Money as an important commodity in this world is a sensitive issue
because, I think, that who we truly are, our character, is connected symbiotically with our bank
accounts. What we value most in life gets the most of our attention. If my wife is the center of my
attention my resources and all I have, including my money, will show that. On the flip side, if our
central focus is on sin, say pornography, our money and other resources will show how we live in
private (buying videos, phone conversations, internet, etc....).
When talking to people about how they spend their money is hard because we find even deeper
personal issues.
When Jesus was presented with issue of paying taxes, he got a coin and asked of whose image was on
it. Upon inspection it was seen that it was Caesar's image imprinted on the money. Jesus moves deeper
in saying that we need to give to Caesar what his image is stamped on (earthly things; i.e. money) and
give to God what his image is stamped on (His creation). With this teaching using money, one can
physically see the stamped image of Caesar and ask within himself if God's image is stamped upon
him.
What are some areas in our lives where our money is directly connected?
Reply
Blessings Aaron,
Using a holistic and biblical approach, I would dare to say that is directly connected
with the intellectual, physical, spiritual and socio-emotional areas; let me refer to
one of them:
Socio-emotional. Here Im thinking specifically about relationships, Salomon said:
The poor plead for mercy; the rich answer with insults. (Proverbs 18:23 NLT); the
money should not affect the way how we relate with other; sadly we can see this
including into the church.
For instance, in Honduras there are titles which we use to communicate with others;
in Spanish this is more evident because we have two ways when we talk with
people: Vos it denotes more confident, a closer relationship, usually building by
the time, and Usted it denotes more respect, addressed more to old people or
without much familiarity.
To have money or a high economic status than your interlocutor, mostly give you
the prerogative to call all people using Vos by default; this indicates the difference
between people, based on money or status. A poor people never will call a rich
person using Vos, it will always be used Usted
How relationships barriers could be broken between social classes into the church?
Shalom
Talking about money is difficult.
by Noriko Ito - Wednesday, September 18, 2013, 11:39 AM
It is a weak point for almost all people to talk about money because a topic of Money is directly
connected to our life. We need to money whatever we will. Our standard of living is depended on
money and money is very important for us. So, we cannot talk as investigating how much you have
money, as give or contribute to someone or something, as comment what I think about your money
because these are very rude. The border of money is private line and anyone should not tell much
about that.
It is same thing with a suggestion about tuitions. It is not for posters and a church, but also it is for
God, which means returning thanksgiving that God already gave us for God. However, sometimes
people misunderstand that because they only see invisible thing. The tuitions is used for pastors
salary,
building
new
churches,
expenses
for
lighting
and
fuel
and
so
on.
When we tuition, we should say that is all for God. We need to believe that this tuition will use for
Gods work and give Him with our praise.
We think about this way that a person does not think I want to get his money or he does when we talk
about money. We do not want to be judged a greedy who seek and watch for someones money. Money
is his own possession, so we cannot talk too much other money, and he can decide to use money for.
When we discuss about money, we will be judged by our attitude for others, personal character and
spiritual relationship by our daily. Their listening attitude will change by these things. Therefore, a topic
of money is difficult.
Reply
Blessings Noriko,
You wrote: Our standard of living is depended on money, but what happen if we
change this paradigm making that money fit in to our standard of live. This implies
that we are not forcing to change our style of living if we receive a salary increase,
for instance; or exceeds credit card in order to increase or maintain the lifes style
that is over our real capacity.
Yes, the money is a difficult topic, but I believe that Jesus freedom include to be
released from money power and control; in this sense, our lives are not more
condemning to be moneys slaves, and consequently, the money couldnt continue
being a hard topic; so, is our decision, our private decision.
I dont know if it sounds an utopia, but our basic real and daily needs are to have
food, water, clothes and household, having these things we can live with dignity;
and Jesus said that He will provide us all this things; obviously, we need to work and
I understand that expenses for these are variable according the countries or areas,
but my question is:
Could it be that pressure of the money comes from wanting to satisfy what is not
essential?
Shalom
