Interview: TT of Abigor

Abigor is according to pre Judeo-Christian

theology known as a demon of the superior order, conjured for his power to foretell the
future and provide military aid and advice. He is shown either in the form of a
handsome knight holding a lance or a ghostly spectre riding a winged horse. And what
better name to crown this Austrian act? Their founding member TT has ascended the
spheres with militant fanaticism since the bands initial inception. He is known for his
rigorous dedication to the black arts, and his will to sacrifice for his master’s blessings.
This uncompromising attitude has culminated in a string of manifestations channelling
energies tangible to those absorbed in darker pursuits. A fact this very interview is a
reflection of.

SH: People tend to get nostalgic with age, but you don’t seem to be one of them. You’re
always looking for a new sound and direction for the band. I do wonder though, how do
you remember the early days of the second wave and what role do they play in your life
today?

TT: I hate the term ´second wave´, because there was no distinct real first wave. We had the
first 3 Bathory albums, Hellhammer/Celtic Frost and some Thrash bands that came up with
lyrics and aesthetics on their early releases that we´d call Black Metal in retrospect, you
know, the classics. Particularly fascinating for me was At War With Satan in 1983, the long
title track, more than anything else that Venom did. The gatefold inside was nailed on my
childhood bedroom wall in 1983, and I wonder if this also inspired Grishnackh to set his fires.
As I started to collect Metal records in 1982 as a young child, I can tell you, I have never
experienced a dedicated ´first wave of Black Metal´, so there is no second one. Mayhem,
Rotting Christ, Von, Dissection, Master´s Hammer, Monumentum and others immediately
followed the forefathers, they were all active in the late 80s, and this seamlessly merged into
the early 90s ´wave´. There was fluent development ever since then, culminating in the first
real Black Metal MOVEMENT, with definitive criteria, its own fanzines and tape trader
circles. With total seriousness, honest contributions and everything else that belongs to such a
movement. This uncompromising dedication and the repetitive mantra of darkness opened the
channel to the spheres of Satan. The energy was flowing and whoever entered the movement
was blessed, which was solely and ultimately responsible for the fact that even hollow
dickheads could come up with something utterly worthwhile. You just had to reach out and
capture what was around you. Black Metal was a Satanic artform exclusively, DIABOLICAL
Fullmoon Mysticism (Immortal), “Dominus Sathanas” (Burzum), you name it. One witnessed
though, as soon as Darkthrone, Burzum, Immortal and the likes changed lyrical subject,
´image´ and mindset, the gift was taken from them. I remember thousands of things and could
fill books about those exciting times. Every half a year things changed to another level, no
one was standing still, no album sounded like another, and these were the only rules.

What role? It shaped us, it is the mist out of which we arose, and it´s part of Abigor 2013.
Leytmotif Luzifer is a direct heir to these, our, early days of Black Metal. The scene during the
very early 90s was characterized by an incredible extremism that set the air ablaze, by the
radical, often violent, mindset of everyone involved, even the zines and tapetraders. Do not
believe what certain figures, which were gifted back then, tell today, even regarding their own
work. They´re driven by revisionism, often incomprehension too, as they can´t grasp, can´t
conceive what had happened.
Musically there often is a nostalgic feeling in me obviously, and I don´t know if someone who
entered later feels the same punch in the stomach and heavy mood when listening to A Blaze
In The Northern Sky, Det Som Engang Var, the Thorns tapes or the monolithic masterpiece of
Black Metal, De Mysteriis Dom. Sathanas. Or personal old faves like the Azhubham Haani
demo, early Abruptum, of course early Marduk, obscurer releases like Mystifier´s Goetia LP,
Unholy’s demo 11.90, the fantastic 3 Fulgor tapes and such. People forget that the
Scandinavian veterans were inspired by such diverse early pieces too. Even Grishnackh
hailed early Black Metal all around the world in his old interviews, while youngsters who try
to be ´traditional´ or ´oldschool´ rip off Transylvanian Hunger and Hvis Lyset Tar Oss
exclusively, but doing so is pretty modern and monodimensional.

SH: You obviously weren’t the only young man in Austria who felt the impact of these
seminal releases that you just mentioned. There were also a few other individuals and
bands that you would end up working with, like the obscure Amestigon. Could you share a
bit about that, and what the Vienna Metal scene was like at the time?

TT: Heavy Records was our Helvete from 1986 or 87 and on. The guys who were employed
there had a band called Carnage, which later became Pungent Stench, and surely important for
Black Metal in Austria was Michael Piesch, the controversial figure who later started Lethal
Records. Some years before he had a small but great tape distribution, importing stuff like
Impaled Nazarene (all later things aside, Taog Eht Fo Htao Eht was a killer demo for the
time), Unholy (demo 11.90 is still one of the blackest pieces of Metal), and Scandinavian
Death Metal. We´ve reached the 90s by now, the super commercial Virgin Megastore of
Richard Branson had a certain guy named Silenius working there in the Metal department,
and I linked him to Napalm Records, who in turn distributed the most extreme things
available at the time, hence you could buy everything from Absurd to Zyklon B at this multi-
corporate temple of consumerism in the mid 90s, which was pretty weird. For a very short
period in winter 1993 to 1994, a handful of people met under the name ´ABMS´ to inspire
each other, when Summoning still had satanic lyrics (their first two demos are brilliant and
have nothing to do with later things). Pazuzu provided room for those gatherings, and, just
like us, was into magic literature and maintained contact to certain orders, groups and
organizations of our interest. As for other bands in Vienna, well, a bit later in the mid 90s I
brought a few people together, resulting in mostly short lived projects like Nefarius and
December Fog, both involving Count Daemon Van Zazas on vocals. Amestigon first was a
project by two former Abigor vocalists, while the band today is a quite different one, I would
say ´post Black Metal´, musically closer to Enslaved maybe, and lyrically the upcoming
album certainly is moving away from fantasy topics of the old demos to more serious
metaphysical and magic texts, I have just read something interesting from that coming record.
Truly important for the evolution of the early Black Metal scene were the Austrian
tapetraders, Mr. Kern, Cle and a few others, who were linking musicians and magazines,
labels and individuals. Believe me, how the scene worked back then was very, very different.
The right people set the agenda, not some glossy magazine superstars.

SH: Abigor was always a band a few steps ahead of your peers when it came to composition
and virtuosity (only Emperor seemed to be on a similar path at the time). Was this the
Austrian love for classical music and high culture seeping through the fabric or a simple
matter of personal preference?

TT: You know what, I always thought that we, well, how should I put this, not that we´d
totally fail, but I´ve never been satisfied with our old releases. I hold Apokalypse and lux
devicta est high as our best work of the 90s, and some aspects of Verwüstung, Nachthymnen
and Opus IV surely are worthy contributions to Satanic Black Metal. But I always felt Abigor
could not compete with the perfection of great records, be it sophisticated works of Emperor,
Ved Buens Ende, or be it earlier, and more primitive masterpieces, which shine in purest form
like many early 90s demos. I was haunted by the belief that our things weren´t good, or
radical, enough. Stylistically, you´re right, elements on some of our albums had the same
majestic atmosphere, were executed with more advanced arrangements, just like Emperor did
it. Certain content demands a distinct musical form, so this ´happened´ without our influence,
usually it is not a conscious, decisive process. Yet your statement above that we are ´always
looking for a new direction and sound´ is correct too, as we stem from a Black Metal tradition
that doesn´t walk on trodden paths. A Blaze In The Northern Sky didn´t sound like
Panzerfaust, Det Som Engang Var was different to Filosofem, Natten´s Madrigal and
Marriage Of Heaven And Hell are both equally essential, and so on. Anyway, in the 90s we
were sloppy and impulsive. We improvised the drums in the studio and in general, for most
albums we finished drums and guitars within the first 2 recording days. As we returned in
2005, 2006, and I heard all these fantastic albums, from Deathspell Omega to S.v.e.s.t., from
Katharsis to Drastus, I was stunned. Through End All Life I got to know that we actually
influenced members of those groups, or at least that they valued what we did in the 90s. Be it
Abigor´s history, or, how one of them put it, the way we used guitars, even several topics we
wrote about. This was amazing and unexpected, and the first time I really felt our own
contributions in the 90s were worth something on a larger scale. One creates art to practice
one´s belief, because it has to be done. It is an urge, a burden very often. Dealing with such
forces, if done without compromise, can be painful and cause harm to yourself. Hence, no
other ´reward´ comes close to the words of respect that I heard from those artists that I value
myself, that´s about the only thing I am proud of and also reassures me that releasing albums
makes at least a bit of sense. I am more satisfied now though, with Time, Quintessence and
Leytmotif Luzifer. But I usually hate my own work and find things by other people better, or at
least more distinct. I am my own worst critic. How could it ever be enough, standing naked on
a vast plane of tones and words, trying to decipher His ungraspable presence, facing His
power and will through Abigor?

SH: Have you and PK ever received any classical training or are you both self-taught?

TT: I was a trained classical guitarist before forming Abigor, yes, but that´s worth nothing as
an isolated quality. More important is the uncompromising intention to create the most
extreme art, and to work hard when recording an album until tendonitis pierces your arm and
blood runs down the fingertips from attacking the strings in trancelike state repeatedly. We
were developing certain playing techniques, and on Leytmotif Luzifer you will hear such
sonics, stemming from guitars and the way we handle them exclusively, untouched by any
effects. Only this intent is important, as it gives you the very tone and sound, not how long
you’ve studied your instrument. And I do not take praises for myself; I am an empty vessel
channelling art from other sources and spheres, which is just flowing through myself.

SH: I know that you probably don’t think much of it today, but a lot of people still hold
Nachthymnen as their favourite Abigor album. Do you view the baroque inspired style that
characterises it as a misstep, or something that just needs to be perfected?

TT: Nachthymnen and its execution very much belonged to the scene, our history, and was the
logical step at that time and place, but it was just as important to move on. Back then we, and
I mean all people within Black Metal, didn´t care too much about a subgenre or a direction,
there was no pseudo-traditional trend, it was Black Metal, period. Some people chose ugliness
as vesture for their message and tones, while Nachthymnen was executed with more pomp,
but in general, back then this didn´t matter. The scene was different. We were on Napalm
Records, Nåstrond were, and Ildjarn around that time, too (although on a more exclusive deal
basis). It wasn´t about secondary things like the sound vehicle you chose, but more if you
could stand up or not. Emperor was symphonic, while Abruptum was unbelievably ugly, and
it didn´t matter as long as it was Satanic and Individual. Today, it´s more about what you say
you are doing, than what you actually do. This is fake to the bone. Every shitty keyboard bit
on Nachthymnen, every female moan, is more real than some of those ´super-underground
rough primitive´ bands. And although Apokalypse and lux devicta est are our masterpieces in
the 90s, Nachthymnen surely has importance and quality, I´m more satisfied with it than some
time ago when, you are right, I hated the continuous mentions of that album.

SH: JFN wrote the lyrics for your classic track “The Dark Kiss” on Nachthymnen. Was
there a close-knit community in the German speaking countries back then?

TT: No. Basically, the whole scene in a grander scheme of things was tighter, yes, much
tighter, incomparable to today. Depending on what ideological movement or distinct group on
the left hand path one belonged to. And Black Metal as a whole was tighter mostly due to
consciously keeping the big media and labels out. But this was no local phenomenon. There
were groups in Vienna we hated, and there were others in far away countries we were close
to. Local scenes meant nothing to us, they still don´t. You just gave me an idea, if I´d mention
JFN I could renew my status as persona non grata in certain communities, hahaha.

SH: I’ve always wondered if the dark object beneath the window on the Nachthymnen
cover is a sarcophagus? What’s the story behind this painting?

TT: It´s a still that was chosen not at least because of its references to “The Dark Kiss”, but in
general it just fits the music and concept of the album perfectly. Compared to Leytmotif
Luzifer, Nachthymnen´s visual part just accompanied the music and lyrics, but we didn´t
choose the images because of a deeper meaning. A more interesting story is the magic circle
on the cover of Verwüstung, this stems from PK´s ancestors who were accused to witchcraft.
He copied it from a linen cloth, locked away in one of the family´s safe.

SH: The voice of Silenius was a vital part of the early Abigor sound. Are you still in contact
with him?

TT: His performance on Apokalypse and Verwüstung is exceptional, also Opus IV shines with
his diversity. Recently he recorded the Supreme And Immortal 7” with us that marks our 20th
year of releasing Black Metal. I meet him very often, he lives 10 minutes walk away from me.
Musically and lyrically, Summoning have nothing to do with Black Metal at all, but I meet
Protector and Silenius regularly. And I still think the first two demos are masterpieces of
Satanic Black Metal, incomparable to later tapes and albums. Ok, as you mentioned Silenius,
I will describe a certain situation again, something that I just wrote about in an interview for
Metal Obscur, but it reflects the atmosphere of the early 90s a bit. Doing the second photo
session with Silenius, we were driven into the dusky forest, backseat of the car, Silenius in the
middle, PK to the left and myself to his right. There was no joking, no friendly atmosphere of
friendship. According to early conceptions of Black Metal one had to be violent, dangerous,
dark-minded, friendship was not appropriate. The atmosphere became even more frozen to
put ourselves in the right mood for the photo session. Silenius had a knife in his bag and the
deeper we got into the woods, the harder he grabbed it. He slowly had the feeling PK and I
wanted to kill him and got ready to defend himself. I smile a bit visualizing this situation in
2013, but that´s the mind-set we all had in those days. There was a lot of talk about extreme
things, and not just talk.

SH: You have often referred to Channelling The Quintessence of Satan as one of the
creative peaks in Abigor’s career. It also represents a slight departure from the medieval
themes of your earlier albums. What inspired this shift of focus from the past to a more
“futuristic” aesthetic?
 TT: You think so? I thought it represented the contrary, from
the cold spheres of Opus IV back to traditional content. But you´re right, there are dark
ambient sounds on the original Channeling The Quintessence of Satan which divide and lead
into the parts and songs. But that´s exactly why we wanted to bring this album to the form it
was originally meant to be, with Quintessence 2012. The interlude sounds were replaced with
excerpts from Det Sjunde Inseglet (being the central inspiration for the original album, “Dawn
of Human Dust” and other lyrics are based on this film and the Book Of Revelation),
something we have already done on lux devicta est in 1993, and in general the 2012 version is
much closer to our initial vision. The individual tracks are lost, so we couldn´t do a new
mixdown, but when I read that people criticise the harsh sound, I mean, fuck off, it´s Black
Metal. We only had a rough, totally unmixed stereo cassette from the first two studio days in
1998 to rework the album, so the sound is not what I would consider ideal. Yet, the 2012
version is far superior to the 1999 attempt, which lacks bass guitar, only had average vocals
and has other negative aspects in arrangement, lyrics and visual presentation. I call
Quintessence 2012 our De Mysteriis Dom. Sathanas, as it has a similar feel to me, a furious
and riff based album with exactly the right atmosphere, dealing with the ancient mysteries, the
triangular relation of devil, death and man, just like Dürer´s engraving that we chose for the
cover. The lyrics were a balancing act, as we wanted to keep the original topics and the
important phrases of each song, but revise it to a mature form that meets our demands 14
years later. Quintessence on EAL sums up Abigor´s 90s history and represents the peak in this
tradition. After the release of the original in 1999, I could not see beyond it. Abigor could not
move and the scene was fucked up in my view. It took a 5 year break where I could brace my
energies, it needed a new understanding, a next level of seriousness, which happened within
me as well as externally, with the next generation of bands.

SH: You’ve talked a bit about your own re-discovery of Black Metal. How did this lead to
Abigor’s partnership with End All Life?

TT: That was simple, I thought End All Life was the best label around, when it comes to
quality releases in every aspect, content and execution. The achievements, and the tradition
EAL managed to build in those few years, were remarkable, so I got in contact with C. He
heard demos for Fractal Possession and wanted the album. As I said above, I didn´t take it for
granted he owned an album of ours, not to speak of being inspired by us, so I was amazed to
hear of Abigor´s importance to him in the 90s. And now he inspired us in return. Things were
crystal clear from then on, he put 100% into the realization of our albums, fully believed in
our work and did as much he could do, without compromise. There was a lot of
communication on all levels, musically and spiritually, during those intense first few years on
EAL, developing Abigor to the form it gained now. Sadly people were running after certain
new trends in the second half of the 00s, collecting ´the right´ limited LPs (of course just in
´mint condition´ to collect dust on the shelves) that made them appear ´more trve´, so the
readily available albums didn´t get as much recognition, which I do regret a lot for End All
Life. But more important than ourselves, I am satisfied many short-lived Black Metal trends
seem to be over these days, the dreaded ´Suicidal Black Metal´ shit with its empty content and
whiny habit seems crushed, but nihilistic Darkthrone oriented copycats singing about
landscapes and weather are still around. We piss venomous blood on them. Only Satanic
Black Metal is real and prevails.

SH: I’ve always wondered if the band pictures used around the time of Fractal Possession
were to be seen as homage to the work of Herman Nitsch and the Wiener Aktionismus?

TT: I am pleased that you see the reference to Wiener Aktionismus. These are the best
pictures we have ever made. They truly represent extreme music and spiritual art, while
remaining in the Black Metal tradition. Actually, a few years ago we wanted EAL to print a
little folder with those photos in larger size and two lyrics, made for people who ordered
Fractal Possession to insert it into the album, but well, it didn´t happen.

SH: I was thrilled to hear the abrasive sound of the synths utilized on Time. Very unlike
what you usually hear on “electronically inspired” Metal releases. What kind of gear did
you work with?

TT: Although every now and then I have periods where I listen to electronic music a lot, we
are not inspired by electronic music at all. Well, Kraftwerk´s Radioaktivität was my second
fave album right behind The Number Of The Beast in 1982, who knows what impact it had.
But on the other hand, although I enjoy primitive and ugly Black Metal all the time, you also
can´t hear this personal listening preference reflected in our music. The music we come up
with is genuinely our own. It was developed from the times when we formed Abigor, the
tradition of Black Metal, and a few deliberate influences of contemporary composers. As well
as the great recent Black Metal albums that we listen to, we can´t close our minds if we hear
something of value that amazes us, it demands that we compete with the intensity of other
bands´ works. But we defy all hints of us having something to do with ´Industrial Black Metal
´ or being influenced by electronic music.
I´m pleased that you seem to belong to the very few who understood the sonic shape that
formed Time. Those sounds are indeed more extreme and ripping than the sounds of a
distorted electric guitar. Although used very sparingly they´re the reason why people
miscategorise Time. It´s as if one calls us ´orthodox Black Metal´ just because of parts like
´Come ye father´. Time is doing the full circle of Black Metal, but it seems people´s attention
span is no longer than 5 minutes. There aren’t more synth parts on Time than there are on a
classic early Burzum record.

As your question concerns the equipment, well, I collected synthesizers from the 70s and 80s
some time ago, fascinated by these old instruments. I had a Moog Prodigy, Roland Jupiter 6,
Korg MS-20, amongst others. And I used tape echoes and spring reverbs, a great stereophaser
and other gear from decades ago. Old analogue equipment that´s magic to put your hands on.
Yet this isn´t pointing to Abigor´s future, we didn´t use a single synthetic sound for Leytmotif
Luzifer, and no effects at all are used for the guitars. It is an album that is very, very different
to Time in its atmosphere, sound, composition and instrumentation. True to the old tradition
of Abigor that´s a fist in the face of all those who think they know how we sound, just like
Apokalypse is different to Opus IV is different to Nachthymnen.

SH: What impact has the acquirement of your own studio had on the way you work as a
band?

TT: More than just the studio, the whole working process has evolved. While in the 90s, PK
and I had met to cross our axes (and that´s all we ever did regarding rehearsals, exchanging
riffs in our living rooms), we can now fully concentrate on what each of us does best. Now we
never meet, and when you work on something alone with full focus, then a contemplated
descent takes place. When you are aware of what you are doing (creating satanic art), when
you talk to no one while composing, rehearsing, recording, then a certain state of mind sets in.
This spiritual state is the ground on which ´pure´ performances grow. It is the optimum, and
maybe the element of misanthropy that´s left from the 90s. Even when you are using technical
equipment to record, even when you ´loop´ a part and play it many times to get the absolute
intensity, to capture this one single take that is loaded with, well, all the energies you just
summoned. Even in this context, it´s not a technical, studio focused process, but a holy act.
This is the ideal way to come up with truly worthwhile art, and it is the result of being able to
work alone, in our own studio, with no limits. My engineering experience and the equipment
is just one part, but the working method is a more important reason for our improvement.
People will hear it on Leytmotif Luzifer (you actually have heard it), where we managed to
compose and record an album from scratch in the way I just described, for the very first time
in our 20 year history.

SH: I think it’s safe to say that the release of Jon Nödtveidt and the following rebirth of
Dissection turned out to be a seminal moment in the history of Black Metal. This was, to
my knowledge, the first time a Metal band had represented a fully formulated Satanic
tradition complete with it’s own cosmology, symbols and advanced magical system. What
was your view on this as both a musician and a Satanist?

TT: As musician, and due to my personal admiration back

then, I have to praise Dissection´s 7” and the first two albums, masterpieces for the era of
Black Metal or to be correct, Death Metal, as Jon wanted these to be called. These have stood
the test of time. Although I totally disagreed with their signing to Nuclear Blast back then, a
label that was fighting against Black Metal and everything it stood for. And I have my
problems with some of the reduced, stomping and rhythm-driven music on Reinkaos, as I
demand more chaos in music, but deeply respect the achievement, nevertheless, obviously,
the texts make up for personal musical taste. So much for Dissection, an utterly important
band, yes.
More generally, I think the sole fact that one represents a ´fully formulated tradition´, which
in itself captures and joins various gnostic traditions, while others are based on the satanic
exegesis of another, basically says nothing about the quality of the first or the latter.
I have very little knowledge about the MLO (Misanthropic Luciferian Order), and I always
thought that there are fundamental differences to my own belief and search, let me explain
these: I am set ablaze by the achievement of spirited men, the history of art fuels my own
existence, be it religious renaissance and baroque visual art, or contemporary composers of
the 20th century, all different kinds. This is important when honestly considering the term
´misanthropy´ and the valuation of man in a wider scheme of things. I see life as a quest, as
well as an ordeal by fire, not as sole distortion. It is a trial that has to be mastered by all
means, and the skills for this were provided by Lucifer, being the incarnation of the devil who
coated man on earth with the fire of knowledge, perception and intuition. Man´s task is to
acknowledge and realize, before his existence is burnt to ashes. Hence dying is the sacrilege
of man divine. Furthermore, I do not oppose the concept of the cosmos, as it holds one of the
mysteries of human existence. MLO suppose time is linear and constant, but it is not. The
sheer ungraspable infinity of the universe, or the absence of time in black holes, all are
fundamental mysteries of Him that we have to decipher. The ecstasy of chaos is not the
opposite of order to my understanding, it is to be found in the fulfilled cycle of order. MLO
did practice Gnosticism rigorously, like it has to be done, like natural physics. But then the
sources become even more important, a fortiori when so many are used, otherwise it´s like
language philosophy. And I would not allow myself to practice it without examining all
sources to separate the legends from the myths. There´s always the danger of an esoteric
tower of babel, in both senses, regarding the pride as well as the punishment, chaos (although,
this is an interesting thought considering the MLO´s reference to chaos). I can´t adopt the
conceptual arrogance that I perceived reading texts of the order, because I am an empty vessel
of Him, which totally opposes the thought of supremacy. What they seemed to achieve was a
huge magical practice and, as you said above, a fantastic form.
You will understand that with the above-mentioned thoughts, I could not fully embrace the
principals of the order myself. I think it is hardly possible to be both, full-fledged artist and
growing, practicing magician, as each demands a lot of time and focus on a long run.

SH: You have always described yourself as theistic Satanist (correct me if I’m wrong).
What’s your view on the so-called “armchair occultists” who favour an academic study of
religion as opposed to actual spiritual practice?

TT: Every approach leads to something if done with absolute devotion. And I would be
careful judging the work of serious religious studies of any kind, much of the MLO´s sources
seemed to be of proper theological (or what people understood of that term in ancient times)
origin, not just ´oral history´, so someone´s got to do the footwork. Myth (or testimony,
revelation), exegesis, theology, liturgy and permeation are all needed. Raising valid questions
or transforming truths to art, all aspects are important, not just collecting knowledge and
myths merging with symbolism and practicing the self-nurturing, or destructing, form of
magic. If done right, anything on the left hand path could touch the spheres where Satan is
tangible. Ritual practice means control, pointing forces to a certain aim. Yet uncontrolled
channelling is the way to go when ´creating´ art, and this dedication often has, contrary to
magical practice, unpredictable consequences. Recording Time was an uncompromising act of
the highest order, where the limitless channelling resulted in huge mischief afterwards, I had
lost everything, relationship, surroundings, you name it. Serious bands tell of similar
experiences. A certain band ´murdered all hope´ (as he put it) with an album, and the whole
group went through utterly miserable weeks after recording it. I have heard this a few times.
So, what you need is uncompromisingness, dedication, and a clear vision to get in touch with
powers that gnostic luciferian orders evoke in their magical practice, too. Just that magicians
do this for themselves, while true satanic artists do it because they have to, their practice is
doxology and there´s no way around it to create the soil on which the tongues of fire are
received. So, due to what I have experienced ever since my childhood, be it the earliest
memories that I have dealing with the dark side, the repeated dreams I had noctambulating,
the figure I have seen in the mirror as child. All this at kindergarten age and still razor-sharp
and clear before my eye. The deeper occult quest and early magical practice approaching the
twenties, the first deciphering of the mysteries, or the experience of uncompromising satanic
art, due to all this I do not accept the excluding thought of the gnostic path that says ´you(r
achievements) are inferior because you are not initiated´. Even if someone managed to get a
step further in his quests, these achievements could vanish to dust for another man. As an
artist of Satanic Black Metal, you need to be wide, wide open, empty yourself and be fully
dedicated and uncompromising, as well as humble. I have seen many fall that weren´t (no
matter how high the status they may have gained in their field).

SH: There has been a recent surge of interest in the Afro-Brazilian and Afro-Cuban
traditions such as Quimbanda in a broad spectrum of European Left Hand Path circles.
Any traditions in particular that currently holds your interest?

TT: I do not feel the need to delve into the abyss of other culture´s myths and practices, my
task is of other nature. Magicians could, but have to be careful not to exchange the ultimate
aims for vanities. Let me put it in the known sentence, ´si monvmentvm reqvires, circvmspice
´. There is no need to seek out the same mysteries (or spiritual monuments) hidden in all kind
of traditions, because you end up being buried in the same questions and same answers. The
other threehundredsixtyeightXXX traditions do not contain shattered parts of the one great
enlightenment, but they are cultural encodings of the same, each having the same profound
relevance for the seeker. One should be aware of other forms, can be interested in those, and
magical practice of other cultures are utterly fascinating, but you will find the most
fundamental in your own tradition. Which alone is formed out of the widest, oldest, as well as
far eastern religious practices, testimonies, codices, and local pagan myths. It holds enough
wisdom and truth to lead man to a higher level. One has to execute certain things differently,
but the instructions are there. Even on Nachthymnen we stated that “Unleashed Axe-Age”
exemplifies the same dark forces of evil that are encoded in northern mythology, just as they
are in ancient monotheistic demonology. I am interested in traditions that acknowledge 1.
Duality 2. Deity 3. Divinity (in man´s existence). I happened to be born in middle Europe, in
the second part of the 20th century, and I´m an artist, so I use the history of art and religion of
middle Europe as main foundation and inspiration. If you were born in China a thousand
years ago, you could come to the very same conclusions on your spiritual quest. The
mysteries are hidden everywhere. I know that a catholic monk of the 15th century, who would
have chosen the left hand path, could have deciphered Luciferian truth just as any gnostic
today. By the way, yesterday I saw a fantastic abbot´s crozier dated 1250, formed as black
snake, a very unequivocal depiction, or on my travels through Italy I saw things in churches
or Florence´s Bibliotheca Laurenziana that have kept me engaged for years. This is my
tradition, His wisdom is hidden in this cultural environment, and when we merge this with the
art of Abigor, we are as close as one can get.

SH: What do you feel your upcoming album Leytmotif Luzifer represents in relation to
Abigor and its respective history?
TT: It is the first Abigor album conceived from scratch as fully matured artists. The 90s
albums were a glimpse of the respective moment. These works must be interpreted
completely different to Leytmotif Luzifer. We were adolescent, Black Metal was still
immature as a fully perceivable direction in art, and everything was just developing and
building. So that´s the reason why the masterpieces of those days have even more value if
they stood the test of time. But if you come up with something half-heartedly now, not
absolutely worthy facing a 20-year old tradition, then there are no excuses. Younger bands are
in the great position to learn from our failures in the 90s, and how ´we´, and I mean all Black
Metal groups who have been active for a long time, developed this music, lyrics, or visual
presentation of an album. And we also had to learn how to present something of true value,
something decent enough to be executed in His name. Failures today weigh heavier than ones
in the 90s. Concerning the previous releases, I think I have enough distance to describe the
history Leytmotif Luzifer is written in:

Fractal Possession was our reunion and featured older ideas. You will find the most
traditional Black Metal riffs (to exemplify what I mean: the guitar intro to “Lair Of Infinite
Desperation” could be right off Burzum´s Hvis Lyset Tar Oss, or the part at 1:22 of
“Project:Shadow” could be on Darkthrone´s Under A Funeral Moon) next to early 80s Metal
(“3D Blasphemy” 2:14 and such) next to dissonant, more sophisticated harmonies of recent
Black Metal. Fractal Possession concludes two decades of Black Metal. We used lyrics that
PK has written years before the reunion, pointing to topics we wrote about in the 90s,
contrasted by three AR lyrics that kind of struck a spiritual balance and burn down what we
have built metaphysically, that dealt with the very foundations, deconstructing old notions of
good and evil; the satanic aspects of the known philosophical ´problem of universals´. Fractal
Possession musically and lyrically paved the way for the utterly extreme piece that was next,
Time. I am satisfied with the achievements of Fractal Possession, the many facets of Black
Metal united on one album. Also worth mentioning is the expensive all analogue production
(we used things like a Neumann M149 tube microphone worth 4500€, a fine old Studer desk
and other hi end gear), which fits the material, captured the album´s atmosphere well, and still
very much contrasts all the ´dead´ and sterile productions with those clicky drums and lack of
density. Fractal Possession was made with a completely different mindset nevertheless, and
is a closed chapter.
Time Is The Sulphur In The Veins Of The Saint initially started as split 7” project and grew
to a full length Abigor album. It is the brother of Blacklodge´s album, both groups worked on
the same topic and we released our efforts on a split DLP. The result is utterly
uncompromising and satisfying, it is an absolutely extreme work, overwhelming every light-
hearted nostalgic listener. Time represents the end point of a certain path with nothing beyond
that, musically, as well as with regards to the conclusion of the album´s lyrics. You could
only be entranced by the album or totally hate it, as it overloads one´s receptors and shatters
all hopes by describing the fall of man.

Quintessence stylistically is the complete opposite of Time and herald our 20th year, featuring
the very beginnings, all demos, and the new version of Channelling The Quintessence Of
Satan. You can hear it´s an utterly traditional Black Metal album, much in the vein of De
Mysteriis Dom. Sathanas. Thanks to End All Life´s uncompromising will to realize this
expensive project (regaining the production costs when the whole limited edition of 950
copies is sold), the presentation, meaning format and print, turned out absolutely brilliant,
paying respect to Abigor´s history.

Leytmotif Luzifer has opened a different chapter and is conceived as new, full length Abigor
album with a clear, conceptual vision before we started. According to the lyrics, each song
has a definitive purpose musically, hence it is more distinct (simply put: there´s a slow song, a
fast one, a midtempo one and so on), and each is accompanied by a drawing. I can not predict
the impact this album will have on us and others, as we´re still in midst of working on it, but
there´s signs already that it will fully shine with the intensity of Lucifer´s flames. Remarks on
lyrics and the detailed interpretation of the artwork will be made soon, I am still waiting for
the permission to use the 7 drawings, only then can we reveal everything. Opposed to Fractal
Possession and Time, we kept the sound and arrangements very pure, walls of guitars
untouched by any effect, nothing artificial or synthetic will stain its purity.

SH: What inspired the move from End All Life to Roberto Mammarella’s Avantgarde
Music?

TT: Two things. First, End All Life changed as the scene had
changed, although mainly in terms of the label´s activity rather than the initial idea, which is
still present I guess. In the early 00s, End All Life stood for something, the artists kind of
interacted, obviously inspired one another, and formed, roughly, sub scenes. At least this was
the impression one could get. End All Life was different to every other label, I remember
mailorders that had ´EAL!´ written beside the band and album title, like a symbol pointing
towards something mystical and very special. You had compilations, many split projects and
interesting label co works. As outsider you had the impression End All Life and a few others
formed something like the old Scandinavian scene of the early 90s (although all the bands
never were that close to each other), meaning a concentrated output that is the essence of
Black Metal, as well as being predominant and formative. Things run a bit slower now. I am
eternally thankful to C, and for a small moment in time, 2007 to 2009, there was immense
artistic inspiration flowing in both directions. While on a larger scale, during the decade, sales
of CDs went down due to ripped MP3s. By the mid 00s, people were more into hunting
´super-limited XXX€ vinyl gems´ on Ebay to strengthen their fucking ego, rather than
supporting the underground of bands that released great art. End All Life, who had just risen
from focusing on vinyl, simply had to react to this in their strategy again, I guess. People
always tend to think their actions have no consequences and that labels and artist always
continue to rip themselves wide open. Underground music like Black Metal was blessed with
supportive followers, but in the past years the situation changed, and now the 4 commercial
labels and their bought magazines finally took over. People suck pirate MP3s on a much
larger scale than the tapetraders did with cassettes, and therefore destroy the work of years.
And the continuous Youtube visits deform proper listening habits, slowly and without your
notice. And from the artists´ side, bands thought it would be better to become islands, instead
of closing ranks to keep the scene free of parasites. Some adapted like rats, playing big
concerts, thus reshaping their art, with the music reflecting the stomping, sing-along,
headbanging shit, just as the devoted relationship to big magazines does. What do we have
now? A few superstars and 4 pseudo major labels controlling the market, and a loose,
shattered underground with no aim and no form. Only ignorant minds can be satisfied with
the fact that it is still possible to buy three outstanding gems per month. But this is not enough
for me, I demand a movement, nothing less.
End All Life continued to release great music, and put 100% into the realization of Fractal
Possession, Time and Quintessence. Yet by now, it has become more a publisher of art rather
than a full time label in the old-school way, with a ´boss´ who is a very active artist himself.
Avantgarde Records, well, forging that deal was very easy. Roberto thought about what we
offered and demanded, and provided the budget to produce Leytmotif Luzifer, agreed to the
conditions for releasing the album, and with him involved in Monumentum (In Absentia
Christi is one of the 10 eternal masterpieces of Black Metal) there is a musician leading the
label who knows what it´s like as struggling artist, and who released Live In Leipzig, that´s
something. All this is very important for us. By now he has released the Supreme And
Immortal package and did a great job in my opinion. Nevertheless, I can tell you that I,
personally, have signed something to Norma Evangelium Diaboli some time ago, a project
that demands my full focus soon. So I am still connected to the French circle, while
Avantgarde will release the next two Abigor albums, along with other things, such as the
mentioned 7”package and finally, the uniform one could wear lining in the Abigor army.

SH: Black Metal has, aside from a few black diamonds, been stagnating since the late
00s. I’d like you to end this ride with your own personal notion of where the genre will
have to be taken in order to regain momentum?

TT: Every form of art can only be strong, and I mean truly revolutionary, if it´s a movement. I
do not underestimate the importance and the impact of strong individuals, yet the isolation of
bands in the past years lead to the dissolution of a more defined underground as a whole.
Whatever state Black Metal is in at the moment, so far it has managed to rise twice, in the
early 90s and in the mid 00s. I think we could witness a natural, cyclic process. The situation
is still a bit ridiculous with bands that are completely hollow and only capture clichés, you
know, those who have absolutely nothing to say except ´true underground´, ´Black Metal war
blah blah´ ´darkness true warrior´ shit and sing about the weather (frost, winds) or nature
(mountains, forests) and such, the phrases and terms we used in the early 90s to capture and
describe an atmosphere. While today´s Black Metal shouldn´t content with atmospheric
poems rooted in romanticism of the 19th century, but have to do with thoroughly fundamental,
at best religious, existential matters, rooted in the respective cultural history. These fake,
empty bands still lead a certain underground and eat up resources of all kinds, be it human
ones, energetic, financial or spiritual ones. They are like these major label, major magazine
parasites that do not contribute but suck the soil dry, while there are others who deliver killer
albums with real content, who contribute and bleed, and are totally overlooked. This has to
change, and it will change. I have bought many great records recently that strengthens my
belief in the Black Metal underground, and if we close the ranks, realize who our enemies are,
and deliver satanic art of the highest order, then it´s enough momentum, for ´the next
thousand years are OURS´, as Fenriz put it in his short period of brightness.