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mandarina
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Supplement List

Unread postby mandarina Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:01 pm

Vitamin A
Nutrisorb Vitamin A - 0.60 oz, Interplexus Inc.

Calcium
Eggshell Powder is optimal. Looking for a commercial source, please suggest if you know
one. Oyster shell is second best.

Oyster Shell Powder 2.2 lbs

Vitamin E
To be updated...

Vitamin D
Carlson Labs Ddrops Liquid Vitamin D3 4000 IU
Country Life Vitamin D3 2500IU 200 Softgels

Vitamin K

Next

Vitamin K2 Liquid - 1 fl oz -Thorne Research

Life Extension Super K

Niacinamide (Vitamin B3)

Niacinamide Powder - 300 grams
Jarrow Formulas - Niacinamide, 250 mg, 100 capsules
Source Naturals Niacinamide Vitamin B-3 100mg, 250 Tablets (Pack of 3)

Pregnenolone
Pregnenolone Powder, 20 Grams
Pregnenolone 25mg, 120 tablets- Source Naturals

Progest-E "Progesterone in Vitamin E patented by Dr. Ray Peat."

Dr. Peat's Progest E Complex, 28 ml

Selenium
Nature's Way Selenium

Thyroid Supplement
Recommended by Dr. Peat:
Cynomel-T3 Only
Cynoplus-T3 + T4

Thiroyd-Used by many people and they do well on it:

NDT Analytical Standard, Pure Grade, Thiroyd, 120 Pack 1 Grain (Available in packs of 250 and
1000, the 1000 pack is an incredible deal,

Thyroid-S known for it's extra excipients, however, many people do well on Thyroid-S. Some people
do report gluten intolerance type symptoms when taking Thyroid-S but Thyroid-S has tested and
assured it's customers that it's gluten free:
NDT Analytical Standard, Pure Grade, Thyroid-S, 1000 Pack 1 Grain (Available in packs of 250 and
1000, the 1000 pack is an incredible deal)
Make sure to check out the thread below for a special discount provided to Ray Peat Forum members
for Thyroid-S and Thiroyd.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2336

Aspirin
Bottled Aspirin 1000 pills
Some are using this veterinary powder with good results:
Aspirin Powder, 1 lb.

Epsom Salts
Epsom Salt 2Lb
Epsoak Epsom Salt 10 Lbs
Epsoak Epsom Salt 20 Lbs
Therapeutic Bulk Epsom Bath Salt Soak - 20 Lbs.

Magnesium
Ray Peat suggests Magnesium Carbonate. However, good results are reported from the Magnesium
Oil below.

Freeda Magnesium Carbonate Powder-16 OZ

Swanson Ultra Magnesium Oil 64 fl oz
Ancient Minerals Ultra Pure Magnesium Oil 64oz

Cascara Sagrada
Cascara Sagrada Bark Powder 16oz 1lb (aged)

Charcoal Powder
Hardwood Activated Charcoal Powder - Food Grade 10 oz
Activated Charcoal Powder 16oz

Flowers of Sulfur
Humco sulfur sublimed powder USP - 12 oz

Salt
Morton Canning and Pickling Salt 4 Lb Box (Pack of 2)
Morton Canning & Pickling Salt, 4-pounds (Pack of 9)

Baking Soda
Bob's Red Mill Aluminum Free Baking Soda -- 16 oz
Bob'Red Mill Aluminum-Free Baking Soda - 16 oz Bundle of 2
Bob'Red Mill Aluminum-Free Baking Soda - 16 oz Bundle of 4

Gelatin

Great Lakes Gelatin, Collagen Hydrolysate (Kosher) 16-Ounce

Coconut Oil
Tropical Traditions Expeller Pressed Coconut Oil, Non-Certified - 32-oz. glass- 2-Jar Pack
Tropical Traditions Expeller Pressed Coconut Oil, Non-Certified - 32-oz glass glass (1 quart)
Tropical Traditions Expeller Pressed Coconut Oil, Non-Certified - 1-gallon
Tropical Traditions Gold Label Virgin Coconut Oil 1 gallon

Sugar
Will be updated soon....

Pill Splitter
Apex Ultra Pill Splitter
X-ACTO Z Series #1 Knife <----- Great for splitting/cutting pills down to an 1/8th

Thermometer
Mercury-Free Oral Thermometer
Temporal Artery Thermometer with Silver Ion Antimicrobial Head

Achilles Reflex Test Hammer

Prestige Taylor Percussion Hammer with Stealth Black Head

Brown Paper Bags

Paper Lunch Bag - 50 Count

Safe Cookware
Farberware Millennium Tulip Shaped 10-Piece Set, Stainless

Red Lights/Infrared Light

Bayco SL-302B3 10-1/2-Inch Brooder Clamp Light with Porcelain Ceramic Socket(DOES NOT
COME WITH BULB)
250W BR40 Light Bulbs
225 Red LED Indoor Garden Hydroponic Plant Grow Light Panel

Blue Light Blocking Sunglasses

SCT-Orange UV Extreme Anti-Fog Lens

High Elevation Training Mask (Simulates High Altitude

Breathing)
At this time, we are not giving our recommendation to this mask any longer until we get feedback on
how it works. We will leave the link up in case anyone would like to buy it and report back the results.
Training Mask 2.0

*Posts by members, moderators and admins should not be considered medical advice and no guarantee is made against
accuracy. Please proceed at your own caution and make sure you read the entire Guidelines and Disclaimer.
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hoppimike

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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby hoppimike Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:08 pm

Thanks for the list!

I can't wait to get hold of some thyroid supps! I've probably forgotten what a healthy
metabolism even feels like!
Last edited by hoppimike on Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

"Good news, everyone!"

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charlie
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby charlie Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:10 pm

Mandarina, thank you!

Pinning this.
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby Jake Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:24 pm

Good idea, thank you.

Here's another:
Niacinamide
Beyond a Century Powder without additives
http://www.beyond-a-century.com/Niacina ... p_209.html
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hoppimike
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby hoppimike Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:30 pm

I ordered a 30-pack of Thyroid-S to the UK and apparently got charged no postage

Wow!
Kept being scared I was gonna get hit by a big postage fee! lol
"Good news, everyone!"
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mandarina
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby mandarina Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:36 pm

no problem, always here to help

glad it worked out with the postage, hoppimike!

*Posts by members, moderators and admins should not be considered medical advice and no guarantee is made against
accuracy. Please proceed at your own caution and make sure you read the entire Guidelines and Disclaimer.
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charlie
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby charlie Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:49 pm

Might want to add gelatin.

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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby mandarina Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:35 pm

thank you Jake, I will add that to the list

and gelatin for Charlie

*Posts by members, moderators and admins should not be considered medical advice and no guarantee is made against
accuracy. Please proceed at your own caution and make sure you read the entire Guidelines and Disclaimer.
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby mandarina Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:41 pm

if anyone will think of anything else that should be added to the list, please let me know. I
will update it promptly!
*Posts by members, moderators and admins should not be considered medical advice and no guarantee is made against
accuracy. Please proceed at your own caution and make sure you read the entire Guidelines and Disclaimer.
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby Close to Nature Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:54 am

Is the pregnenolon from source naturals recommend by peat?

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Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet"

(BPD)

Unread postby Birdie Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:22 am

Some more Peat Items for consideration in a list:

Epsom Salts (Magnesium sulfate) - bath
Baking soda - bath, added to oj
Bag breathing, nose breathing, etc..
Aspirin, vit K, niacinamide, vitamin E, progesterone
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Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet"

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Unread postby Birdie Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:24 am

I just saw that there is a supplements section for those types of items.
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Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet"

(BPD)

Unread postby charlie Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:49 am

Close to Nature wrote:Is the pregnenolon from source naturals recommend by peat?

I have never seen Dr. Peat recommend a source of pregnenolone. However, I do see people
in other groups recommending this one:

http://www.beyond-a-century.com/Pregnen ... p_600.html

Birdie wrote:I just saw that there is a supplements section for those types of items.

Birdie, welcome to the board! It's great to see you here!

I have moved your two posts over to here. I hope that is OK? I figured since we are pulling
together a list here, that this would be the most sensible place to put your posts. If you
have anymore suggestions for the supplement list please chime in anytime. I see a couple
things that you recommended that can be added to the list of supplements. Many thanks for
making those suggestions. Here are the ones that I see that need to be added suggested by
Birdie.
-Epsom Salts (Magnesium sulfate)
-Baking soda
-Brown paper Bags
-Aspirin,
-Progesterone
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charlie
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby charlie Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:14 pm

-Thermometer
-Cascara
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Birdie
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby Birdie Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:23 am

You want aged cascara there... NOW brand works for some people and is cheap. Others
people buy an expensive one they say is aged better, more... I think Ray says the aged type
is darker.
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby charlie Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:35 pm

Those high elevation masks that you posted are way cool! I think I am going to buy one soon
as I get the extra funds.

High Elevation Training Masks

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nwo2012
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby nwo2012 Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:09 am

http://mymexicandrugstore.org/
Cynomel and cynoplus. This is where I get mine.
http://mymexicandrugstore.org/cytomel?keyword=cytomel&category_id=0
http://mymexicandrugstore.org/cynoplus?keyword=cynoplus&category_id=0
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Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet"

(BPD)

Unread postby nwo2012 Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:12 am

Birdie wrote:Some more Peat Items for consideration in a list:

Epsom Salts (Magnesium sulfate) - bath

Baking soda - bath, added to oj

Bag breathing, nose breathing, etc..

Aspirin, vit K, niacinamide, vitamin E, progesterone

As long as we are talking bathing in non-fluoridated water, otherwise can only be

detrimental to health. Sadly, I can not take baths as the Australian government are a bunch
of ****s.
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Birdie
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Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet"

(BPD)

Unread postby Birdie Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:33 pm

nwo2012 wrote:
Birdie wrote:Some more Peat Items for consideration in a list:

Epsom Salts (Magnesium sulfate) - bath

Baking soda - bath, added to oj

Bag breathing, nose breathing, etc..

Aspirin, vit K, niacinamide, vitamin E, progesterone

As long as we are talking bathing in non-fluoridated water, otherwise can only be detrimental to health.
Sadly, I can not take baths as the Australian government are a bunch of ****s.

Is the water fluoridated throughout Australia? Just certain areas/cities? I live in a place
with it's own wells. Still, I'm sure it's got some awful stuff in it but no fluoride. It's been
years since I looked up the info on our water. When I lived in Victoria, BC, I was told their
water has no fluoride but is chlorinated. I avoided it. Also, I don't like to swim in it and that
might be similar to soaking in fluoridated water as far as being harmful.
But Peat has never to my knowledge advised avoiding soaking baths if your water is
fluoridated, as is most people's water. Maybe I missed it though as it sounds like something
important to consider.

So, I wonder if I missed something or did Ray miss something. He warns about drinking
fluoridated water so, fluoride's danger is not something he ignores. Maybe somebody has
more info. Probably, we shouldn't include the baths until we learn more. ??
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby Jake Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:49 pm

Birdie:
Good questions, I have been wondering the same thing.
Have you run across anywhere Peat has commented on chlorine? I have not done much
digging on this topic but am curious. My gut feeling is there is a lot of undesirable stuff in
any tap water, so not real sure on the epsom salt baths.
As a side note, it's funny, sometimes I feel the more learn, the more paranoid I get. I
wonder on some topics if I would be healthier in the long run not knowing versus worrying
about it.
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Birdie
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby Birdie Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:40 pm

Another thought is that a lot of things when applied to the skin are absorbed differently
than by mouth. Filtered in a way. Ray puts his vit A and D on the skin. He says it's a safer
way to dose them because of additives if I remember right.
And, the fact that he advises using baking soda and epsom salts through the skin in the bath
indicates to me that he isn't worried about the water in the bath. Also, I think most cities in
the US are fluoridated, and, still he recommends the bath. When he thinks something (meat
for example) is better in Mexico, he says he eats more meat there. But he hasn't said he
takes more soaks there because of our fluoride. But, is his water in Mexico fluoridated too.
Does he take the baths himself anyway?
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nwo2012
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Re: Notes Toward a Handle like a "Basic Peat Diet"

(BPD)

Unread postby nwo2012 Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:17 pm

Birdie wrote:
nwo2012 wrote:
Birdie wrote:Some more Peat Items for consideration in a list:

Epsom Salts (Magnesium sulfate) - bath

Baking soda - bath, added to oj

Bag breathing, nose breathing, etc..

Aspirin, vit K, niacinamide, vitamin E, progesterone

As long as we are talking bathing in non-fluoridated water, otherwise can only be detrimental to health.
Sadly, I can not take baths as the Australian government are a bunch of ****s.

Is the water fluoridated throughout Australia? Just certain areas/cities? I live in a place with it's own wells.
Still, I'm sure it's got some awful stuff in it but no fluoride. It's been years since I looked up the info on our
water. When I lived in Victoria, BC, I was told their water has no fluoride but is chlorinated. I avoided it.
Also, I don't like to swim in it and that might be similar to soaking in fluoridated water as far as being
harmful.

But Peat has never to my knowledge advised avoiding soaking baths if your water is fluoridated, as is most
people's water. Maybe I missed it though as it sounds like something important to consider.

So, I wonder if I missed something or did Ray miss something. He warns about drinking fluoridated water
so, fluoride's danger is not something he ignores. Maybe somebody has more info. Probably, we shouldn't
include the baths until we learn more. ??

Yes, most of Australia is fluoridated. In fact it has the highest % of any country, why when I
see people proudly singing Australia Fare it makes me want to vomit.
I did ask Peat about the fluoride on the skin and he replied
Since some T3 is produced in the skin, I would expect fluoride to have some local effects on the skin, such
as interference with pigment formation, healing, and elasticity.

My concerns are that some of the fluoride will go systemic. Fluoride baths used to be a
treatment for hyperthyroidism.

Around the same time (1932) Gorlitzer von Mundy, being aware that fluorides also get absorbed through the
skin, began fluoride treatments of hyperthyroid patients in Austria by prescribing 20 minute baths containing
30ccm (0.03l) HF per 200 liters of water. He reported on his successful treatment spanning over 30 years and
involving over 600 patients at a 1962 symposium on fluoride toxicityin Bern, also attended by other worldleading experts includingGeorge Waldbott

For me personally, this is too great a risk. It is the fluoride of Australia that caused my

hypothyroidism and Im still detoxing from it. This was confirmed by symptoms and
bloodwork.
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby nwo2012 Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:12 pm

I asked RP again about this and my concerns. H replied:

The magnesium probably reduces the amount that reacts with the skin, and probably very little is absorbed,
but it's still better not to have it in the water.
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby Birdie Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:46 pm

Good to see Ray's response. I've noticed that when he makes recommendations and then
someone questions them, he will give that sort of answer. Some other thing, the
magnesium in the bath, the progesterone in the milk, that covers it.
It'd be better not to have fluoridated water but most of us do. Peat still recommends the
bath. But he doesn't recommend drinking it. We'd get a lot more fluoride from drinking the
water than we would in the bath, especially with the Mg acting to reduce absorption of
fluoride through the skin. Anyway, I'm satisfied on the epsom salt/baking powder baths.
(For now!)
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nwo2012
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby nwo2012 Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:15 am

Birdie wrote:Good to see Ray's response. I've noticed that when he makes recommendations and then

someone questions them, he will give that sort of answer. Some other thing, the magnesium in the bath, the
progesterone in the milk, that covers it.

It'd be better not to have fluoridated water but most of us do. Peat still recommends the bath. But he doesn't
recommend drinking it. We'd get a lot more fluoride from drinking the water than we would in the bath,
especially with the Mg acting to reduce absorption of fluoride through the skin. Anyway, I'm satisfied on the
epsom salt/baking powder baths. (For now!)

So are you meaning that you think maybe he just makes up things to cover what he said?
Just wondering what's on your mind, not insinuating anything.

Maybe he does

recommend the things in the first place because he already knows of the protective
elements so when questioned already has the answer?
Anyways I guess I agree but I will have to mull it over for a while before considering a bath.
I do know the hotter the water, the more fluoride you would absorb. Also I would think
chlorine would exacerbate the issue (another haline) so using a bath chlorine removing ball
(I have one of these) before getting into the bath would be useful. Maybe even a small
amount of iodine into the water?
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peatarian
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Selenium, Egg shell powder,


Unread postby peatarian Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:02 am

Thank you for the great list!

You could add super selenium complex. Ray Peat always recommended eating shrimp for
selenium but since most of them (and shellfish) come from aqua culture they don't have
selenium anymore. So now he recommends supplements.
Also recommended: egg shell powder as best source of calcium.
I am not sure about the training masks. They sounded great at first but after reading how
they are supposed to work I think they train you to inhale deeper after wearing them. If you
inhale deeper you will take in more oxygen. The opposite of the desired result. Has anyone
asked RP what he thinks about this?
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charlie
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby charlie Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:27 am

Peatarian, welcome to the forum.

Thats a really great point you have made about the masks. Hoping we can get some more
feedback on them.
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby Nick810 Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:57 pm

What form of selenium supplement?

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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby peatarian Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:44 pm

Thanks a lot for the welcome and for the quick answer! Ray Peat never mentioned a special
form of selenium to me. I think I checked the Super Selenium Complex from Life Extension
with him. I suppose he would have mentioned if there was a better form. But I cannot say
anything about the quality. If there are additives (which I am rather sure of) and which
ones.
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby charlie Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:53 pm

I did notice it has vitamin E included with it. Not sure what kind of vitamin E though.
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peatarian
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby peatarian Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:31 pm

Yes, I noticed the vitamin E (as D-Alpha tocopherol, it seems to be hard to find a product
without it) but the amount is practically nothing so it will not interfere with the suggested
400.000 I.U. of E complex per day.
Vitamin E (as D-alpha tocopheryl)
30 IU
Selenium (as Se-Methyl L-Selenocysteine, SelenoPure L-selenomethionine1, sodium
selenate, selenodiglutathione)
200 mcg
Each capsule provides:
Selenium (L-selenomethionine1)
50 mcg
Selenium (sodium selenate)
50 mcg
Selenium (selenodiglutathione)
25 mcg
Selenium (Se-Methyl L-Selenocysteine)
75 mcg
Other ingredients: rice flour, gelatin, vegetable stearate, dicalcium phosphate,
microcrystalline cellulose.
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peatarian
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby peatarian Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:43 pm

One more suggestion since you listed everything else I could think of for the Ray-PeatSurvival-Kit: activated charcoal might belong with the other stuff.
RP says carott salat has the same effect but from time to time carotts just aren't strong
enough. He sent me some rat studies which show that rats eating charcoal (I think every
few days) lived 30% longer than those who didn't. Of course the carbo medicinalis (the
official name) works as the carott fibers would but are more potent. They soak up the
endotoxins in your stomach and intestines. I use charcoal once a week or if needed, two big
spoons in water. It's a bit nasty to handle and it turns your tongue black but whenever my
teeth or one of them hurts -- It helps. Probably has to do with the elevated serontonin
because of the endotoxins. RP mentions it in the articles about MS and other so called
autoimmune diseases.
You just have to be sure not to use it close to supplements or food. At least one hour or
better one and a half between charcoal and anything beneficial.
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Unread postby charlie Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:48 pm

Is there a certain brand you would recommend for charcoal?

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Unread postby peatarian Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:57 pm

Don't buy the pressed pills, they are nearly useless. I think it should be at least two big
spoons of charcoal but I have used as many as 10 after a stomach infection.
Actually I would recommend the one you can afford. Don't laugh I mean it!
You wouldn't believe it's basically burned things you buy. I used to pay 56 Euro for 250g.
I now found a pharmacy in Switzerland that charges 22 Euro for 1 kg.
There is no qualitative difference between the two. They don't have brand names, just the
names of the pharmacies on them.
Basically I'd say chose the one that's finer and easier to stir up dust (you'll see what I
mean).
They all have to me medically pure so you don't have to worry about that.
Some are burned plants instead of animals (I wonder if this has to do with religion or
vegetarians?). I have tried many, the result was always the same.
After two years I recommend using it -- and using it right before bedtime because this way
it's most unlikely it will interfere with any nutrition. (And don't wear anything white when
you mix it. I usually fill it in a glass bottle and shake it until it's all liquid and no powder.)
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Unread postby Kemby Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:47 am

Just ordered some Thyroid-S like Hoppimike and was also not charged postage. Interesting!
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Unread postby charlie Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:51 am

Yeh it seems they include their shipping in the price no matter where they ship it to. Can't
beat that!
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Unread postby healing Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:09 pm

How much baking soda do you use in the baths and add to drinks? Do you ever notice any
digestive problems from the baking soda? What benefits do feel from using it? Thanks!

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Unread postby Birdie Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:00 pm

I add a cup or two of baking soda to my bath along with the same amount of epsom salts.
Sometimes I add aspirin powder too. (Thanks, Peatarian for that one!)
I don't eat a lot of it. Just a little in my oj.
I experience sounder sleep but the other beneficial effects are not something I notice from
day to day.
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Unread postby Kemby Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:00 am

How often do you need to have baths like this to absorb an optimal amount of Magnesium
and sodium?
Just looking for a ballpark. Im lucky enough that where I live the water has no added
flouride.
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Unread postby Birdie Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:05 pm

I've heard 4 a week. I get 4 or 5 a week. Some were saying to use a pound of each but I use
less. The baths are for magnesium and CO2. I add the aspirin as peatarian said it might help
my fibromyalgia. These baths also help with sleep if taken near bedtime.
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Unread postby charlie Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:17 pm

I have Xtend BCAA and it has soy in it, guess thats out of the question.
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Unread postby kiran Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:04 pm

I think nutraplanet has a pure BCAA product.

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutr ... grams.html

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Unread postby BingDing Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:41 pm

kiran wrote:I think nutraplanet has a pure BCAA product.

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutr ... grams.html

Thanks kiran. A quick look at Vitacost found only two with no soy.
There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby BingDing Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:31 am

Sugar in the list is left to be updated. I've been using organic Florida Crystals, which has a
slight brown tint from leftover molasses. I was worried a bit because molasses is high in
iron but from what I can figure out there is just a trace amount of either molasses or iron in
it.
I would use the cheapest commercial sugar if I knew it was OK. Has anyone come to a
conclusion about a good sugar to use in the US?
TIA
There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
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Unread postby cliff Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:56 pm

BingDing wrote:Has anyone come to a conclusion about a good sugar to use in the US?

C&H

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Unread postby BingDing Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:20 pm

Thanks Cliff. Not available on the right coast, unfortunately. I guess all I am really
concerned about is pesticide residue, so any organic sugar should be OK.
There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
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Unread postby BingDing Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:10 pm

Activated Charcoal- the first product on the list is sourced from this place. They don't even
sell the 10 oz jar sold by Amazon but have a 40 oz jar for $27.56 +s&h, a much better deal.
It's also about 20% cheaper than the second product on the list at Amazon.
No sense in spending more than you need to.
FWIW, Crunchy Betty has a page about whitening teeth with the stuff.
There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
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Unread postby Rachel Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:44 pm

FWIW, Domino, C&H, Florida Crystals, Redpath, Jack Frost and Tate & Lyle brands
of sugar are all produced by the same company.
T
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Unread postby BingDing Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:47 am

Rachel wrote:FWIW, Domino, C&H, Florida Crystals, Redpath, Jack Frost and Tate & Lyle

brands of sugar are all produced by the same company.

I know, the Fanjul brothers. And Domino is almost the poster child for the whole sordid
history of colonialism and slavery. From the Wiki page

The Fanjul brothers were parodied in Carl Hiaasen's 1993 novel Strip Tease, which features a pair of Cuban
brothers who own a large sugar conglomerate, that receives enormous profits from the exploitation of
immigrant labor and the subsidies regularly voted to them by the United States Congress.[4]

The brothers also were a focus in the Jamie Johnson documentary The One Percent, which showcases the
corrupt use of cane workers and especially "imported" labor. The U.S. Dept. of Labor's "List of Goods
Produced by Child or Forced Labor"[5] report lists sugarcane from the Domincan Republic as having child
and forced labor. This is a major source of sugarcane[6] for Domino Foods which is owned by Florida
Crystals and the Fanjul brothers.

So, who else makes cane sugar in the US?

There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby Rachel Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:04 am

BingDing wrote:So, who else makes cane sugar in the US?

Imperial Sugar based in... Sugar Land, TX.

Aaaaah, the sugar of my childhood.
Imperial Sugar is now owned by the Louis Dreyfus Group of the Netherlands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Sugar
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Unread postby kiran Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:38 pm

BingDing wrote:So, who else makes cane sugar in the US?

To think that the very people who started the tariffs on sugar that made America sicker
also benefit from our consumption of sugar.
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Unread postby BingDing Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:07 pm

Rachel wrote:Imperial Sugar based in... Sugar Land, TX.

Aaaaah, the sugar of my childhood.

Imperial Sugar is now owned by the Louis Dreyfus Group of the Netherlands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Sugar

Cool, thanks Rachel. Of course they don't sell it around here.

Hmmm, I'm about due for

a trip to Nawlins, I'll walk around say I'm looking for some sugar.
There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
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Unread postby Rachel Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:46 pm

BingDing,
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Unread postby kiran Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:00 pm

BingDing wrote:Cool, thanks Rachel. Of course they don't sell it around here.

Amazon!
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Unread postby BingDing Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:15 pm

jaa wrote:Does anyone know the recommended dose of eggshell powder?

Danged but if I didn't run across this, jaa, from Peatarian. I was wondering the same thing.

I imagine calcium carbonate powder is okay because the body can read this form of calcium but the
impurities will be a problem after a while.Powdered egg shells or powdered oysters shells are much
better. 1 Tablespoon a day would be fine.

From page 8 of this thread.

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Unread postby OrangeJuiceManiac Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:53 pm

some magnesium supps u may be able to add to the list....

"Use natural sources of magnesium, such as pure, organic fruit juice, or
an epsom salts bath (1/2 cup in a tub, soak for 20 minutes), BioNativus Liquid minerals
or Magnesium Taurate are good sources of magnesium" -lita lee
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Unread postby Birdie Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:56 pm

mdrsports31 wrote:some magnesium supps u may be able to add to the list....

"Use natural sources of magnesium, such as pure, organic fruit juice, or

an epsom salts bath (1/2 cup in a tub, soak for 20 minutes), BioNativus Liquid minerals
or Magnesium Taurate are good sources of magnesium" -lita lee

Yes, Ray recommends natural sources in juice and also using epsom salt baths. He says to
use a pound in the tub. I thought the epsom salt baths were listed in the supps.
I've heard Ray say that he uses Magnesium oil on the skin. He doesn't much trust
supplements since they can have added toxic ingredients.
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Unread postby Birdie Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:08 pm

Is there an error in the Coconut Oil listing? I didn't see the word, "refined", and that is what
Ray always recommends.
The other thing I noticed is that Ray's name is attached to the Progest-E. He says he's had
no connection with it for many years. He did formulate it in the beginning, so that may be
what's intended in the list.
It might be more clear to a newbie if it were called just Progest-E as it is on the label.
Maybe you could mention that Ray formulated it underneath or something?
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Unread postby BingDing Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:16 pm

Birdie wrote:Yes, Ray recommends natural sources in juice and also using epsom salt baths. He says to use a

pound in the tub. I thought the epsom salt baths were listed in the supps.

I've heard Ray say that he uses Magnesium oil on the skin. He doesn't much trust supplements since they can
have added toxic ingredients.

Interesting that Ray uses topical Mg oil, Birdie, I'd never heard that. I'm a huge fan of the
stuff.
FWIW, the ancient minerals source of Mg oil also sells bath salts of Mg oil (essentially Mg
Chloride). They say there is a lot more Mg in the water than with epsom salts, but I figured
it is a good bit more expensive, too. I've never been a bath guy so it doesn't matter to me,
20 sprays of the oil after a shower does it for me. (And I am some kind of glad that it does!!
Very important mineral for everyone and every way of eating).
There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
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Unread postby Birdie Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:23 pm

That does sound great, BingDing. I've got to get some of that oil when I get a bit more
energy. Thanks.
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Unread postby charlie Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:17 pm

I have Xtend BCAA and it has soy in it, guess thats out of the question.
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Unread postby kiran Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:04 pm

I think nutraplanet has a pure BCAA product.

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutr ... grams.html

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Unread postby BingDing Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:41 pm

kiran wrote:I think nutraplanet has a pure BCAA product.

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutr ... grams.html

Thanks kiran. A quick look at Vitacost found only two with no soy.
There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby BingDing Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:31 am

Sugar in the list is left to be updated. I've been using organic Florida Crystals, which has a
slight brown tint from leftover molasses. I was worried a bit because molasses is high in
iron but from what I can figure out there is just a trace amount of either molasses or iron in
it.
I would use the cheapest commercial sugar if I knew it was OK. Has anyone come to a
conclusion about a good sugar to use in the US?
TIA
There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
T
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby cliff Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:56 pm

BingDing wrote:Has anyone come to a conclusion about a good sugar to use in the US?

C&H

T
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby BingDing Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:20 pm

Thanks Cliff. Not available on the right coast, unfortunately. I guess all I am really
concerned about is pesticide residue, so any organic sugar should be OK.
There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby BingDing Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:10 pm

Activated Charcoal- the first product on the list is sourced from this place. They don't even
sell the 10 oz jar sold by Amazon but have a 40 oz jar for $27.56 +s&h, a much better deal.
It's also about 20% cheaper than the second product on the list at Amazon.

No sense in spending more than you need to.

FWIW, Crunchy Betty has a page about whitening teeth with the stuff.
There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
T
o
p

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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby Rachel Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:44 pm

FWIW, Domino, C&H, Florida Crystals, Redpath, Jack Frost and Tate & Lyle brands
of sugar are all produced by the same company.
T
o
p

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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby BingDing Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:47 am

Rachel wrote:FWIW, Domino, C&H, Florida Crystals, Redpath, Jack Frost and Tate & Lyle

brands of sugar are all produced by the same company.

I know, the Fanjul brothers. And Domino is almost the poster child for the whole sordid
history of colonialism and slavery. From the Wiki page

The Fanjul brothers were parodied in Carl Hiaasen's 1993 novel Strip Tease, which features a pair of Cuban
brothers who own a large sugar conglomerate, that receives enormous profits from the exploitation of
immigrant labor and the subsidies regularly voted to them by the United States Congress.[4]

The brothers also were a focus in the Jamie Johnson documentary The One Percent, which showcases the
corrupt use of cane workers and especially "imported" labor. The U.S. Dept. of Labor's "List of Goods
Produced by Child or Forced Labor"[5] report lists sugarcane from the Domincan Republic as having child
and forced labor. This is a major source of sugarcane[6] for Domino Foods which is owned by Florida
Crystals and the Fanjul brothers.

So, who else makes cane sugar in the US?

There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
T
o
p

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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby Rachel Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:04 am

BingDing wrote:So, who else makes cane sugar in the US?

Imperial Sugar based in... Sugar Land, TX.

Aaaaah, the sugar of my childhood.

Imperial Sugar is now owned by the Louis Dreyfus Group of the Netherlands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Sugar
T
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby kiran Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:38 pm

BingDing wrote:So, who else makes cane sugar in the US?

To think that the very people who started the tariffs on sugar that made America sicker
also benefit from our consumption of sugar.
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby BingDing Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:07 pm

Rachel wrote:Imperial Sugar based in... Sugar Land, TX.

Aaaaah, the sugar of my childhood.

Imperial Sugar is now owned by the Louis Dreyfus Group of the Netherlands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Sugar

Cool, thanks Rachel. Of course they don't sell it around here.

Hmmm, I'm about due for

a trip to Nawlins, I'll walk around say I'm looking for some sugar.
There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby Rachel Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:46 pm

BingDing,
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby kiran Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:00 pm

BingDing wrote:Cool, thanks Rachel. Of course they don't sell it around here.

Amazon!
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby BingDing Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:15 pm

jaa wrote:Does anyone know the recommended dose of eggshell powder?

Danged but if I didn't run across this, jaa, from Peatarian. I was wondering the same thing.

I imagine calcium carbonate powder is okay because the body can read this form of calcium but the
impurities will be a problem after a while.Powdered egg shells or powdered oysters shells are much
better. 1 Tablespoon a day would be fine.

From page 8 of this thread.

There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby OrangeJuiceManiac Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:53 pm

some magnesium supps u may be able to add to the list....

"Use natural sources of magnesium, such as pure, organic fruit juice, or
an epsom salts bath (1/2 cup in a tub, soak for 20 minutes), BioNativus Liquid minerals
or Magnesium Taurate are good sources of magnesium" -lita lee
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby Birdie Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:56 pm

mdrsports31 wrote:some magnesium supps u may be able to add to the list....

"Use natural sources of magnesium, such as pure, organic fruit juice, or

an epsom salts bath (1/2 cup in a tub, soak for 20 minutes), BioNativus Liquid minerals
or Magnesium Taurate are good sources of magnesium" -lita lee

Yes, Ray recommends natural sources in juice and also using epsom salt baths. He says to
use a pound in the tub. I thought the epsom salt baths were listed in the supps.
I've heard Ray say that he uses Magnesium oil on the skin. He doesn't much trust
supplements since they can have added toxic ingredients.
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Re: Supplement List


Unread postby Birdie Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:08 pm

Is there an error in the Coconut Oil listing? I didn't see the word, "refined", and that is what
Ray always recommends.
The other thing I noticed is that Ray's name is attached to the Progest-E. He says he's had
no connection with it for many years. He did formulate it in the beginning, so that may be
what's intended in the list.
It might be more clear to a newbie if it were called just Progest-E as it is on the label.
Maybe you could mention that Ray formulated it underneath or something?
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby BingDing Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:16 pm

Birdie wrote:Yes, Ray recommends natural sources in juice and also using epsom salt baths. He says to use a

pound in the tub. I thought the epsom salt baths were listed in the supps.

I've heard Ray say that he uses Magnesium oil on the skin. He doesn't much trust supplements since they can
have added toxic ingredients.

Interesting that Ray uses topical Mg oil, Birdie, I'd never heard that. I'm a huge fan of the
stuff.
FWIW, the ancient minerals source of Mg oil also sells bath salts of Mg oil (essentially Mg
Chloride). They say there is a lot more Mg in the water than with epsom salts, but I figured
it is a good bit more expensive, too. I've never been a bath guy so it doesn't matter to me,

20 sprays of the oil after a shower does it for me. (And I am some kind of glad that it does!!
Very important mineral for everyone and every way of eating).
There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
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Re: Supplement List

Unread postby Birdie Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:23 pm

That does sound great, BingDing. I've got to get some of that oil when I get a bit more
energy. Thanks.
T
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Banned from raypeatforum.com for asking

questions. by chrisbrah219 in raypeat
[]haidut 1 4

I am the same haidut that is over at RP forum. As you can see

the supplement ads have been gone for some time, and have
been replaced by ads for the documentary on Peat (in which I
play no part). I have no pact with anyone to sell or somehow
push my supplements. I don't even push them myself or
market them in any way. In fact, I challenge you to find a

single post from the over 2400 I have made on the forum that
makes a case for buying my supplements (or anyone else's for
that matter). If I post a study on specific substance I discuss
that substance and do NOT end my post with something along
the lines of "btw, if you like X my supplement Y contains it".
Not sure why Charlie banned you, but it seems that he banned
quite a few other people so I doubt it's personal. Just my 2c.

17( )

A drug which has already been in use for decades to treat liver
disease could be an effective treatment to slow down progression of
Parkinson's disease by Karmanacht in science
[]haidut 2 4

Meh, the amino acid taurine (which has parallels with UDCA in
terms of liver effects) has been known for decades to have
beneficial effects on dopamine and Parkinson symptoms in
specific. In fact, UDCA is often administered as a taurine
conjugate called TUDCA and it is quite possible that this result
is actually due to taurine's effects and not just UDCA. Why is
this hitting the news just now? The taurine studies are much
further ahead in the game as they have been replicated even
in primates.

24( )

Autism is largely down to genes, twins study suggests. Genetic

influences on autism are estimated to be between 7498%. by kitsua in science
[]haidut -17 10

Wake up, vaccines CAN cause

autism. http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1164046
But CAN does not mean they DO in most cases.

384( )

Breakthrough discovery in cancer treatment: Immunological

mechanisms of the antitumor effects of supplemental
oxygenation by PalNova in science
[]haidut 1 10 *

Yawn, nothing new here.

For anybody seriously studying cancer it is beyond obvious

that the so-called Warburg Effect is not really an effect but a
direct cause of cancer. Any cell stuck in glycolysis for too long
will eventually become cancerous. This is in direct
contradiction to the stupid, retarded idea of "mutations" (and
only mutations) over time causing cancer. Seriously, wake up
Reddit!! The study was posted here not even a year ago.
http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1yrftf/the_warbur
g_effect_drives_oncogenesis_researchers/
Anyways, while the "official" house of cards on cancer and its
origins is slowly crumbling if you want to achieve the same
effects as reported in the study, simply take 200mg-400mg
caffeine every 4-6 hours. As an adenosine antagonist caffeine
is quite good at oxygenating the cell. Hmmm, I wonder if this
thing caffeine would have anti-cancer effects? Just do a search
on Pubmed for "caffeine cancer" and see for yourselves.
Another good method to reduce adenosine and increase cell
oxygenation would be to increase CO2 levels in the blood. You
know what increases CO2 levels in the blood? Among other
things, good old baking soda. Take 20g daily in divided doses
of 5g each and watch your blood oxygenation levels climb from
the "normal" 95%-96% for a middle-aged decrepit
citizen/zombie to the 99% of a 20-year old athlete. Wait,
wasn't baking soda a "scam" treatment for cancer?!?! Hmmm,
maybe it's not such a scam after all.
I don't know what's more sad - the fact that current
treatments of cancer are essentially sanctioned euthanasia, or
the fact that the origins of cancer and some solid hints for its
successful treatment were known 100 years ago. How is it
possible that several Nobel laureates (Albert Szent-Gyrgyi,
Otto Warburg, Hans Selye, Linus Pauling) all agreed that
cancer is a disease of metabolic origin characterized by
excessive glycolysis, and likely treatable by restoring oxidative
metabolism, yet their seminal works continues to be
ignored?!?!? Ignored in favor of retarded theories of
mutations, locks and keys receptor garbage, and reductionism
delusions that have led to nothing but allowing cancer to
become the leading cause of death in the modern world.
Stunning idiotism is what rules the "scientific" world...

5( )

Researchers prevent multiple sclerosis and reverse the progression

of the disease using injections of the co-enzyme,
NAD+ by SirT6 in science
[]haidut 2 11

This has been common knowledge for decades. Niacinamide (a

precursor to NAD) is an off-label treatment option in many
countries for a number of auto-immune conditions such as
rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, MS, Sjondgren, etc. Btw, none of
these diseases are really "autoimmune" - there is no such
thing as the immune system "attacking" your own tissues.
What is happening is that the immune system is creating
antibodies for tissues that are damaged and metabolically
deranged (e.g. NAD/NADH ratio is really low) in an attempt to
clean up the mess. This can be interpreted as the immune
system "attacking" the tissue but if it was that simple then
immunosuppressing therapies would have a disease-modifying
action (i.e. they will be curative) in all those disease, BUT
THEY DON'T! The only thing the immunosuppression achieves
is control of symptoms while the diseased tissue continues to
deteriorate. Just look at the studies from the 1970s and 1980s
when the only option for MS was cortisone shots. Those people
deteriorated even faster than the ones who did not have their
"autoimmune" condition "treated" by suppressing the immune
system. Other compounds that will have beneficial affect on
"autoimmune" conditions are inosine, caffeine, thiamine, etc
and all of these substances work to restore the oxidative state
of the cell. If you don't believe it, search PubMed and you will
find both animal and human studies.

13( )

Researchers prevent multiple sclerosis and reverse the progression

of the disease using injections of the co-enzyme,
NAD+ by SirT6 in science
[]haidut 1 11

Actually a much cheaper method is taking plain niacinamide.

Studies show that taking 500mg x 3 a day for a total of

1,500mg is effective in raising NAD as much as the expensive

Niagen.

13( )

Scientists Reverse Autoimmune Disease Progression With Naturally

Occurring Molecule by kbrenn89 in science
[]haidut 2 1

This is actually very old news. Niacinamide (vitamin B3) has

been known to treat animal models of MS and other
autoimmune conditions for more than a few decades. Here is
another "news" from several years ago.
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/news_and_events/news_articles/ne
ws_article_MS_B3.htm
Niacinamide converts more easily to NAD+ than niacin and
helps raise the NAD/NADH ratio, putting the cell in a more
oxidized and metabolically healthier state. Since raising NAD
has been shown to amerliorate a number of autoimmune
condtions some countries prescribe niacinamide off-label for
rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, MS, Chron's and so on. There is
even a clinical trial with humans in the US for treating
Alzheimers.
http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT00580931
Effective human dosages for autoimmune conditions are likely
to be in the 1g-3g range daily. The clinical trial for AD uses 3g
daily, split into 2 doses.

17( )

ELI5: Why do humans cry during emotional distress? Is there an

evolutionary advantage to crying when
sad? by jvaldez in explainlikeimfive
[]haidut -11 1

Except that it's not true - crying does NOT make you feel
better and for some people it can even trigger depressive
episodes.
http://healthland.time.com/2011/08/01/study-crying-wontmake-you-feel-better/

878( )

Physicists reconcile theory with a 2012 experiment in which the

uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics was apparently violated
by simultaneous measurement of a photon path and observation of
interference patterns bycosmic8 in science
[]haidut 0 1 *

Your statement is actually not true. What the follow up

experiment did was to analyze the data in a different way to
find a possible explanation why the findings MAY be still
consistent with the duality principle. The authors of this study
think the original experiment may have looked at biased data
samples, but if you read the original study you will see that it
did not use biased sampling. The findings of the original
experiment still hold, so it is entirely possible that the duality
principle was in fact violated. It is about time the general
public wakes up to the incredible hubris that the so-called
"Copenhagen Interpretation" of quantum mechanics is. There
are alternative theories such as the so-called Bohmian
mechanics that are just as good explanations and do not
involve assuming "random" behavior of nature, discarding
realism, cats in boxes that are half-alive and other such
cretinisms. Science these days has gotten very close to politics
in terms of its uselessness and stupidity.

4( )

Ketamine could treat depression: Twenty eight people were slowly

injected with a low dose of ketamine all seriously depressed
patients who didn't respond to conventional treatment. Eight
reported feeling better and four improved so dramatically that they
were no longer classed as depressed by Cats_of_War in science
[]haidut 6 1

The widely accepted mechanism of action behind ketamine's

effects on depression is its antagonism of the NMDA receptor.
Another substance that is NMDA receptor antagonist and
seems to be effective in depression is magnesium. Note how
magnesium also has "rapid recovery" effect, which suggests it
works pretty similar to ketamine when it comes to depression.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMDA_receptor#Modulators

"...Mg2+ not only blocks the NMDA channel in a voltagedependent manner but also potentiates NMDA-induced
responses at positive membrane potentials. Treatment with
forms magnesium glycinate and magnesium taurinate has
been used to produce rapid recovery from depression.[29]"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16542786

32( )

What does cancer eat? Sugar, mostly. by xtr3m in science

[]haidut 1 1

PUFA causing cancer and Omega-9 protecting from it:

http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/12/2209.full
http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/07/09/jnci.d
jt174.abstract
http://www.fhcrc.org/en/news/releases/2013/07/omegathree-fatty-acids-risk-prostate-cancer.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3756849?dopt=Abstract
Lauric Acid for over 40 types of cancer. Sorry, I could not find
the original research
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1267548/Couldacid-breast-milk-answer-beating-cancer.html
Low(er) fat intake lowers cancer risk:
http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/87/19/1456.abstract?ijk
ey=c532693eaad7bf5aa5d0517dc11d127bcacc8c31&keytype2
=tf_ipsecsha
Omega-9 protects from cancer. The study is on olive oil but
you can find a lot of studies on PubMed that link the anticancer effects of olive oil to the Oleic Acid it
contains. http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v57/n1/full/160
1497a.html

17( )

What does cancer eat? Sugar, mostly. by xtr3m in science

[]haidut 5 1

People who are obese and have insulin sensitivity have a

problem with oxidating glucose, due to damage in the Krebs
cycle. The damage itself is done by polyunsaturated fats

(omega-6 and omega-3) damaging the mitochondria. Their

cells only perform glycolysis, which is what cancer cells do as
well. In order to recover a diabetic person back to health, you
need something that kickstarts the full Krebs Cycle all over
again and limits glycolysis. Niacinamide / Nicotinamide (a type
of vitamin B3) is one such substance (aspirin is another). It
helps the mitochondria recover. There have been cases where
Type I diabetes has been reversed by niacinamide. I can't find
the exact study, but here are some pointers.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16723091
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15132730
It looks like in the studies with rodents, it's the type of fat that
contributes to obesity much more than carbs do. With the
caveat that by carbs, I mean sugar. The studies with rodents
where carbs caused obesity are actually diets where most of
the carbs came from corn starch, and the definition of high
carbs diet includes diets that still contained over 40% of daily
calories from fat, and especially polyunsaturated fat. The issue
is complex, but simplifying it a bit too much it goes like this.
All studies with rodents that show obesity from high carb diet
actually fed them diets where 40% of calories were from corn
starch and not sugar, and on top of that another 40% of the
calories were from fat, leaving only 20% for protein. In the
few studies that were truly "high fat", only polyunsaturated fat
caused obesity. Saturated fat like coconut oil, and especially
its constituents palmitic and lauric acids did NOT cause obesity
but made the rodents lose weight. If you feed a rodent only
protein and sugar (glucose+fructose, not starch) and no fat,
they become extremely hypermetabolic and never develop
cancer. They also live about 20% longer. If you feed rodents
high fat diets and sugar, they develop cancer only if the fat is
polyunsaturated. Saturated fat ans sugar make them lean and
healthy. Starch makes them fat no matter what else you feed
them. Starch particles get in their bloodstream and cause
systemic inflammation, which in time causes obesity. The few
experiments in humans seems to confirm the rodent results.
So, here is your recipe for avoiding cancer - eat pure sugar,
protein and no more than 10% of calories from fat. Make sure
all the fat you eat is as saturated as possible (coconut oil), or

at least monounsaturated (olive oil). If your body needs

additional fat it will synthesize it from sugar, but the fat it will
synthesize will be monounsaturated (omega-9) like Mead Acid,
and not polyunsaturated. Omega-9 fats do NOT fuel cancer
growth and in fact are protective against cancer and
autoimmune conditions. Search Google for "nervonic acid".
Take aspirin daily, at least 650mg, preferably up to 1300mg if
you can stomach it. This regimen (aspirin) is so effective, that
the government is complaining that taking aspirin will put a big
burden on the retirement system since people will stop dying
of cancer. Here is the article.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-02/aspirin-seenfueling-100-billion-penions-cost.html

17( )

What does cancer eat? Sugar, mostly. by xtr3m in science

[]haidut 7 1

That's not true actually. Cancer cells burn mostly fats, and
prefer polyunsaturated fats at that. The cancer cells use sugar
to synthesize fat and then burn that fat as a fuel. That's why
drugs that suppress an enzyme called Fatty Acid Synthase
(FAS) are a very promising new line of weapons against
cancer. Btw, you know what else suppresses FAS? Wait for
it...aspirin!
http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2012/02/05/jnci.d
js010.full.pdf

17( )

Turns out MSG is perfectly safe, unlike public

opinion by urielxvi in science
[]haidut 1 1

Why don't you bother instead and respond properly from your
high tower of wisdom? So, one article overrules the consensus
on Wikipedia that glutamate is excitotoxic? What about the
other studies I posted? Are they successfully "debunked" by
that article as well? Btw, I did read the article and happen to
work on rodent models of neurotoxocity caused by glutamate,
histidine, aspartate, cysteine, and methionine. True, rats and

mice are not humans but if you see what these amino acids
(and especially chronic exposure to low levels of dietary
glutamate) cause to rodent brains you wouldn't be so quick to
downvote (if you did in fact).

26( )

Turns out MSG is perfectly safe, unlike public

opinion by urielxvi in science
[]haidut 0 1 *

Wow, that's all Reddit could muster up?!? The usual bickering
in the comments section...Ah, well, what can you do.
The concept of excitotoxicity is very well studied and the
toxicity of glutamate specifically is also very well established.
Why didn't anybody bother to search around? Maybe they
would have come up with this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity
"...Excitotoxicity is the pathological process by which nerve
cells are damaged and killed by excessive stimulation by
neurotransmitters such as glutamate and similar substances.
This occurs when receptors for the excitatory neurotransmitter
glutamate (glutamate receptors) such as the NMDA receptor
and AMPA receptor are overactivated by Glutamatergic
Storm."
"...Glutamate is a prime example of an excitotoxin in the
brain, and it is also the major excitatory neurotransmitter in
the mammalian CNS."
http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.pa.3
0.040190.000403
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8401596
http://www.ajnr.org/content/22/10/1813.full
"...The specific type of excitotoxicity triggered by the amino
acid glutamate is the key mechanism implicated in the
mediation of neuronal death in many disorders."
The suggestion that since nobody gets a headache in
China/Japan after eating MSG, then MSG must be safe sounds
like it came from a 5-year old. Is headache the only symptom
of neuro-excito-toxicity??? Did anybody study a random
sample of the Chinese and Japanese populations to determine

is they truly do not have any damage? How about

this?http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijad/2012/171327/
"...The study suggests that, in contrast to the USA and some
European countries, all-cause dementia prevalence is
increasing in Japan."
There is mountains of data in favor of MSG being a potent
neurotoxin and even carcinogen. I gave some pointers and if
someone wants to learn more then Google is your friend.

26( )

Nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) could lead to new treatments

for ageing, cancer`, type 2 diabetes and muscle wasting and
inflammatory diseases within five to ten
years by the_last_broadcast in science
[]haidut 11 2

Plain old nicotinamide / niacinamide (vitamin B3) does the

exact same thing - i.e. raise NAD and consequently the
NAD/NADH ratio in the body. If the researchers are right and
NMN does work through increasing NAD, then popping up
couple of grams of niacinamide will have virtually the same
effect. No need for expensive (and patented) stuff like NMN
and nicotinamide riboside.

17( )

Demolished face of Russian boxer, Lebedev. by MrSriracha in WTF

[]haidut 48 2

How can you miss his gem from his last professional fight?!?
"You get old too soon, and smart too late."
--Mike Tyson

641( )

Scroogled - we knew long before Snowden No

Fiction (blogoscoped.com)
2 " haidut -/r/politics

Scientists Discover Potential New Way to Treat Anxiety: Chemically

modified inhibitors of the COX-2 enzyme relieve anxiety behaviors
in mice by activating natural "endocannabinoids" without
gastrointestinal side effects by[deleted] in science
[]haidut 1 2

Niacinamide (vitamin B3), but not niacin, has potent antianxiety effect. Apparently it works the same way as the
benzodiazepine class of drugs such as Valium and Xanax. Here
are some studies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6101294
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6125374
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7913840

429( )

Avoiding estrogen therapy proved deadly for nearly 50,000: None

of those women lived to be 70 years old. They were all women aged
50-59 who would have used estrogen but did not use it because of
unfounded fears byDougBolivar in science
[]haidut 4 2

I am sorry, but whoever did that study must be high or

pushing an agenda. Estrogen is a widely recognized
carcinogen, and HRT is even banned in some countries b/c of
concerns of estrogen's carcinogenicity. How's this for
"unfounded fears"?
http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/dec2002/niehs-11.htm
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra050776
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10696569
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8725388

331( )

New J&J anti-depressant related to 'Special K' party

drug by polisk in science
[]haidut 1 2

Magnesium has very similar, if not identical, mode of action

(MOA) to ketamine on the nervous system. In fact, it has also
been shown to induce "rapid recovery" from depression. Here
are some references:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23541145

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16542786

19( )

Epilepsy Cured in Mice Using Brain Cells by vegemil in science

[]haidut 0 2

The same result can be achieved non-surgically and cheaply

with taurine:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12908638
Then again, taurine can't be patented so forget about hearing
from your doctor about amino acid treatment of epilepsy...

12( )

Why Sleep Deprivation Eases Depression by AlisonBert in science

[]haidut 1 2

There is evidence that any adenosine receptor agonist (like

adenosine itself) will have similar effects. Here is a study on
inosine, which is structurally very similar to adenosine:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11302-0139361-8
On the flip-side, that same study above says that adenosine
receptor antagonists (e.g. caffeine) prevent the antidepressant effect. So, IN THEORY, caffeine should not be
taken when implementing sleep-deprivation for briefantidepressant effect. Finally, chronic caffeine administration
has antidepressant effects, so it seems that timing is key here
- both for agonists and antagonists of the adenosine receptors.
In the short term adenosine agonists have antidepressant
effects, while in the long run it is the antagonists that keep the
blues away (at least this seems to be the case with caffeine).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21949167

385( )

Red meat + wrong bacteria = bad news for

hearts by penultimate2 in science
[]haidut 1 2

This has been known since the early 1990s in Europe - i.e.
that L-Carnitine promotes CVD. There is a drug called
Mildronate, which inhibits carnitine biosynthesis (so lowers
carnitine levels in the body) and is successfully used in
Eastern/Central Europe for a variety of CVD conditions such as
heart attacks, stroke, vascular dementia, pectoral angina, etc:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mildronate
In addition, Mildronate is a common supplement for athletes in
these countries as it increases endurance (time to exhaustion)
in sports like running and cycling by about 25%-50%.

11( )

Researchers discover association between red-meat/L-Carnitine and

heart disease. (Some people use L-Carnitine as weight loss
supplement) by Medhacker in science
[]haidut 1 2

Yes, AFAIK venison and elk are red meat. I wouldn't worry too
much about the type of meat as much as I'd worry about
where it came from. Organic/local red meat from properly
raised animals actually has a host of beneficial effects,
including thyroid boosting:
http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012/03/natural-thyroidtreatment-beef-green.html

26( )

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Home Dear Mark Dear Mark: Salmon Pouches, Ray Peat, and Our Inherent Desire for Crispy Food

8 OCT

Dear Mark: Salmon Pouches, Ray Peat, and

Our Inherent Desire for Crispy Food
Welcome! If you want to lose weight, gain muscle, increase energy levels or just generally
look and feel healthier you've come to the right place.
Here's where to start:
1. Visit the Start Here and Primal Blueprint 101 pages to learn more about the Primal
lifestyle.
2. Subscribe to my weekly newsletter to receive an eBook called Primal Blueprint
Fitness and more - all for free.
3. Cut to the chase by visiting PrimalBlueprint.com. There you'll find books, food, and the
best supplements on the planet to help you take control of your health for life.
Thanks for visiting!

Ah, its good to be back with a regular old Dear Mark. Today were discussing the nutritional
value of canned salmon, and whether the canning process negates some or much of the
impressive nutrient profile of fresh salmon. After that, I discuss the dietary views of Ray Peat,
an increasingly popular topic in the MDA forums and a seemingly wildly divergent way of
eating. Is there any reconciliation to be made between Peat and Primal? I think so, actually.
Finally, I explore why we might be inherently drawn to crispy, crunchy food despite the lack of
potato chips, Fritos, and Pringles during the most formative years of our evolution.
Lets go:
Dear Mark,
Do the packages of Chicken of the Sea Premium Wild-Caught Pink Salmon offer the same
health benefits as a wild caught piece of salmon? Just looking for an easy way to get more
salmon in my diet. Thanks!
James
For the most part, yes. Lets break down the various health benefits and see how the canning
process might affect them:
Minerals: Salmon is a rich source of various minerals, with selenium being the most
prominent. Since heating doesnt really break down minerals, you wont lose any to the
canning process. If youre worried about minerals leaching into the salmon juice, just mix it
into the salmon.
Vitamins: Thiamine is somewhat vulnerable to canning, but most of it is retained. Other Bvitamins (the only ones really found in salmon) are also well-preserved.
Vitamin D: Salmon is one the best dietary sources of vitamin D around, and canned pink
salmon is no exception with around 400-500 IUs for every three ounces. Canning doesnt
change that.

Omega-3: Most research confirms that omega-3s are retained in canned fish.
One studyfound that the most abundant fatty acid in samples of canned Mexican tuna was
DHA. In another study, canned tuna, salmon, sardine, and jurel all retained high levels of
omega-3s. Of course, there are some losses. Subjecting skipjack tuna to the canning process
inanother study totally eradicated the DHA and EPA levels. Meanwhile, the overall omega-6
PUFA content of the tuna increased due to migration from the canning oil.
It comes down to cooking time, temperature, and cooking brine/oil. Fish canned in brine or
water are more susceptible to oxidation than fish canned in oil, with extra virgin olive oil being
the most protective due to its polyphenol content (more protective even than synthetic
antioxidant preservatives designed to prevent oxidation nature wins
again!). The descriptionof the Chicken of the Sea canning process is generic, so its difficult to
say anything definitive. But all in all I think canned salmon is often a great alternative to fresh.
Dear Mark,
What do you think of Ray Peat? Ive noticed that some forum users like what he has to say.
Where do you stand on his protocol?
Thanks,
Jon
Thanks for the question, Jon. Yes, Ive seen that Ray Peat has been a topic of discussion in
recent months. Ill give you my take, but first a little overview on the Peat protocol.
Its hard to talk about a Peat protocol, simply because the man himself hasnt laid out a
cohesive prescription (by design). From what I can tell, people are cobbling together a dietary
regimen based on bits of advice Peat has doled out over the years in email consultations,
excerpts from some of his research articles, and interviews he has given. I get the sense that
his advice is very individualized and tailored to the person whos receiving it rather than
meant to be prescriptive to everyone. Most people are just reading the tidbits pulled from
disparate sources and formulating a protocol based on them even though those tidbits werent
necessarily intended for everyone. I doubt Peat himself lives off of nothing but gummy bears,
OJ, coffee, and salted milk.
That said, there do appear to be some foundational principles that we can examine. Lets take
a look at them:
Saturated fats Both camps agree that theyre awesome, stable and resistant to oxidation,
and totally safe in the context of an otherwise healthy diet. The same goes for
monounsaturated fats, which often appear alongside saturated fats. No arguments here.

Grains and legumes Both camps avoid them, especially gluten-containing grains. Both
camps agree that of the grains, rice and corn are the least problematic.
Use of the whole animal Both camps support the consumption of the entire animal,
including organs, glands, bones, and gelatinous connective tissue (which, remember, makes
up a large percentage of the weight of a carcass that we usually just throw away nowadays).
To achieve that, Id like to see people making bone broth, eating oxtail and shank and chicken
foot and turkey neck, and cooking up a pot of fish head stew every so often, not relying on
gummy bears and marshmallows for their gelatin (although plain gelatin can be a helpful
supplement and cooking ingredient). Judging from his article on gelatin, Peat would probably
prefer gelatinous whole foods over reliance on purified gelatin, too.
PUFA avoidance Peat and followers consider polyunsaturated fats to be toxic (both
omega-3s and omega-6s), whether from whole foods or refined oils. Ive always maintained
that too many PUFAs, particularly omega-6 PUFAs, are problematic and inflammatory. The
problem is that the studies they cite as evidence used refined oils, not food. Theyre not
feeding wild salmon to rats, or raw almonds to poultry. Theyre giving refined diets rich in
industrial seed oil because thats the simplest way to modify PUFA content while minimizing
confounding variables that might change the results (like selenium and astaxanthin in salmon
or vitamin E and magnesium in almonds). I understand it, I just dont think the results are
necessarily applicable to whole foods that happen to contain PUFAs. And heck, the claims
that PUFAs in any amount are hugely anti-thyroid and will shut your metabolism down just
dont pan out. One recent paper even found that omega-3s increased thyroid function in the
liver. Given his recommendation of eggs and shellfish, I think Peat will admit a little whole
food-PUFA is fine.
Sugar Peat is pro-sugar, which many people interpret by eating plain white sugar by the
quarter cup. I think this is a mistake and a far cry from what Peat actually promotes. From
what I can tell, Peat is pro-sugar-via-fruit. Now, Im obviously not a fan of fruit-based diets, but
fruit is a whole unprocessed edible plant food, with all the fiber, vitamins, minerals, and
phytonutrients that category entails. Fruit therefore is a legitimate source of calories,
particularly if youre active.
High-fat diets Followers avoid high fat intakes, citing Peat, but Peats primary reason for
limiting fat is to avoid PUFAs. He even says that if the fat is mostly saturated, from milk,
cheese, butter, beef, lamb or coconut oil, I think its usually o.k. to get about 50% of the
calories from fat. I think thats reasonable.
My general impression is that the Peat protocol is anything but definitive, and what we can
establish isnt all that far removed from the Primal umbrella (albeit a high carb section of it).

Now, as for the people mainlining table sugar and avoiding bananas because of the starch
and skipping the leafy greens and berries because of the minimal amount of PUFAs and
fearing muscle meat without an accompanying tablespoon of gelatin (or pack of gummy
bears)? I think thats all a little silly. Then again, if it works for you, it works for you. Im not
going to tell you to stop doing something thats working (though I might suggest a few ways to
improve).
You know, I bet Peat would be quite at home at PrimalCon. He might hoard the fruit and spike
the coffee with crushed thyroid pills and aspirin, but I dont think wed catch him sneaking off
to a grocery store for skim milk and strained orange juice or anything. His followers might be a
bit disappointed in the California king salmon, though.
Why do we like or crave crunchy foods, especially since crunchy foods didnt really exist to
Grok? When I say crunchy foods, Im more talking about modern crunchy foods such as
chips. (Certainly you must have overheard someone at a party/gathering say they like the
crunch of a chip or something).
When I think of anything crunchy on a Grok menu, I think of fresh peppers, carrots, or
(stretching it here) cucumbers, or maybe even seeds or nuts but there is nothing quite like a
chip to give that crunch. Are we tapping into our primal genes here, or have we fallen victim
to the chip companies who really sold us on the crunch[]?
Thanks again Mark, hope all is well with you!
Ryan
Ive seen things you people wouldnt believe. A Thai family stripping a freshly roasted duck of
its entire epidermis before touching even a morsel of muscle meat on the outskirts of
Bangkok. I watched pork fat and pig ear shards glitter in the dark near a Malibu beach pig
roast. All those moments will be lost in time, like spatters of fat to a grease shield.
If you were at PrimalCon Tahoe a couple weeks back, on the last night there, youll remember
how Chef Aflalo made this braised beef dish that had the crispiest exterior (well, at least the
part of the exterior that wasnt submerged in braising liquid). It was incredible. I had to stop
myself from snatching the crispy bits from other plates. And growing up in my family, the
Popes nose on a roasted chicken (the fatty little tail nub) was prized and coveted by all.
My point? Crunchy or crispy food is great and inherently alluring, but I dont think you need
chips or crisps or industrial-sized vats of corn oil to get it. All you gotta do to turn fatty animal
skin into crispy deliciousness is apply the simplest, most universal technology of all: fire.
Besides skin, youve also got all the edible arthropods humans and our ancestors have been
eating for millions of years the insects and the crustaceans. You may not have eaten a bug
yourself, but youve probably stepped on one or two and heard the crunch. Just imagine that
happening in your mouth, perhaps after a light roasting.

I imagine that some combination of crispy animal skin and crunchy arthropods two relatively
common dietary factors throughout human evolution shaped our taste for crunch.Both
bugs and crispy skin would have represented important nutrients to early humans: the
protein and micronutrients found in insects and the animal fat found in animal skin
(even an otherwise lean animal will have plenty of fat attached to its skin). The crunch
may merely be a signal for healthy foods thats been co-opted by food scientists. It certainly
wouldnt be the first time.
Thats what Ive got, guys. What about you? What are your thoughts on canned (or pouched)
salmon, Ray Peat, and crispy food?
Thanks for reading!

15

18

67

POSTED BY: MARK SISSON

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You want comments? We got comments:

Imagine youre George Clooney. Take a moment to admire your grooming and wit. Okay, now
imagine someone walks up to you and asks, Whats your name? You say, Im George
Clooney. Or maybe you say, Im the Clooninator! You dont say Im George of George
Clooney Sells Movies Blog and you certainly dont say, Im Clooney Weight Loss Plan. So
while spam is technically meat, it aint anywhere near Primal. Please nickname yourself
something your friends would call you.

1.
Nice post, Mark. Happy to read your assessment of the Peat protocol.
Then again, if it works for you, it works for you. Im not going to tell you to stop doing
something thats working (though I might suggest a few ways to improve).
Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/salmon-pouches-ray-peat-and-our-inherentdesire-for-crispy-food/#ixzz2h8voiq7m

This is an attitude that more folks need to adopt, I think!

Tasha wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

2.
If I wasnt so paranoid of parasites Id eat insects every week.
Plenty of healthy bugs around my househehe.
Issabeau wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
You could cook them, you know.
Bill C wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

3.
Having worked up in Alaska for 16 years, Id be eating the canned Red Salmon instead.
You do not want to know what the quality of the Pink Salmon is that goes to the cannery.
The Red is much more costly, I know, but very well worth it!
Nocona wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
I am also a former Alaskan, and I would totally agree but dont tell too many
people. I want more of those tasty Reds for myself!!!
Danny wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

I am not from Alaska, but I noticed that when I opened the pinks, my cats didnt
care. When I opened a can of the Reds, my off-the-street kitty came running.
And it tastes better.
Deanna wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
Do you have any specific brands you would recommend?
Robin wrote on October 10th, 2013
Reply

o
Thanks for that infoIve been buying pink to save money but will definitely buy the
red from now on. Who knew!
Barbie wrote on October 17th, 2013
Reply

4.
LOVE your Blade Runner reference Mark! Im picturing a young, bleach-blonde Rutger
Hauer say Ive seen things you people wouldnt believe. A Thai family stripping a freshly
roasted duck of its entire epidermis before touching even a morsel of muscle meat on the
outskirts of Bangkok. I watched pork fat and pig ear shards glitter in the dark near a
Malibu beach pig roast. All those moments will be lost in time, like spatters of fat to a
grease shield.
Great article and you made me laugh
Monica wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
+1
Art wrote on October 9th, 2013

Reply

o
OMG that made me laugh. I read the first line (accurately quoted) and it seemed
eerily like Hauers end speech from Bladerunner. Huh, could be a coincidence. Then
the rest of the parodied lines. Too awesome!
The question remains: Do Replicants Dream of Primal Feasts?
MassageTeam wrote on October 10th, 2013
Reply

5.
He might hoard the fruit and spike the coffee with crushed thyroid pills and aspirin, but I
dont think wed catch him sneaking off to a grocery store for skim milk and strained
orange juice or anything.
Haha thats great. Nice to hear your take on Ray Peat. I came to pretty much the same
conclusion, although I recall reading somewhere that he promotes refined sugar
(sucrose) over fruit sugar if you dont have access to fresh, naturally ripened fruit. Anyone
else remember this?
Alyssa wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
Peat views white sugar as a supplement. It would be akin to people around here
taking fish oil tablets if they dont have access to fish. It is not, and never was
intended to be a long term dietary staple.
John wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
There are some posters on the forum who like sugar, which may draw some
connection with Peat that isnt really there? I dont know anymore.

Good to see Mark call Peat high-carb Primal because thats about what it is. Some
people can do well on it. Me, I get fat on one bag of potato chips cooked in lard.
Questions:
At what point does high-carb Primal become so carby that it turns into a whole-andunprocessed version of SAD/CW/CICO?
For weight loss, is it necessary to go through the 3 (or 6) week Primal carb-flu
transition first so you can handle more carbs, and then adopt Peat, or can one jump
right into Peat without reprogramming your genes?
If theres too much sugar or starch or fruit, do we turn back from fat-burning Groks to
sugar-burner Kelly Korgs? How long would that de-primalizing take?
Does this upend the Carb Curve?
Where does Peats focus on dairy fit in?
oxide wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

I think that high carb primal becomes unprocessed SAD when you start to suffer
the consequences of eating more carbs than you need. For some its weight gain,
for me its anxiety, brain fog, drop in energythe list goes on. Everyone knows
what they do best on. As a very thin breastfeeding woman, I may eat more carbs
than a heavier person attempting to lose weight, but ones body will tell them
exactly what they need.
Jessica wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

6.
It seems to follow that the benefits of eating animal bones, eggshells and certain
berries/fruits would also play large roles in our evolution of the crunch affinity, in addition
to the roots, insects and charred animal skin.
Jiirumo wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
Good point on the animal bones and eggshells. I personally have not yet tried animal
bones, but hasnt Mark on a few different occasions talked about eating chicken
bones?
Stephanie Paris wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

I love crunching up chicken bones, and so do my kids. I have even converted Mr

Piglings to crunching them now. I didnt need Mark to tell me its OK to crunch the
bones I just couldnt stop myself from going further each time I chewed on a
chicken leg/wing! If I am deboning a chicken for a casserole I usually roast the
carcass and them er eat almost the entire thing. The cat finishes off whatever
bones I dont manage to eat.
freerangepiglings wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

Ok, Im curious do you cook them or prepare them differently?

Do you have any hints to eating them?
I always thought that if chicken bones are bad for my dogs, they might be bad
for me, too, leading to GI issues, etc.
Tom wrote on October 10th, 2013

Cooked chicken bones can present a hazard to dogs but raw bones are fine. I
think cats are a bit different because they cant swallow pieces as big as a
dog can.
Cooked bones shard and are sharp projectiles-think of it like old fashioned
glass in a car or a house sliding door. The old glass broke into shards but
modern glass shatters into small bits.

Kelley C wrote on October 16th, 2013

7.
So last night, to accompany the primal meatloaf and green salad I had for dinner, I made
sweet potato chips in the oven. For those of you that eat sweet potatoes, and like crunchy
foods, youve got to try them! I sliced them super thin, warmed some bacon fat and lightly
coated them in the fat, sprinkled them with course sea salt, and baked them in the oven

until crispy. Delicious!

Stephanie Paris wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

8.
I stepped on a roach in the middle of the night while barefooted once. It popped. Like a
balloon. I dont know why. The mixed insides splashed across the tile at least 6 inches.
Imagine that in your mouth, no thanks Mark!!!!!!!!
JC wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
hahaha. thanks for the chuckle!
primal aly wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

9.
One thing to keep in mind when choosing between fresh and canned food is the lining of
the can itself. BPA has received a lot of attention lately as one potential endocrine
disruptor, but even if it is labeled BPA-free, there could still be other synthetic
compounds used for lining and preservation.

This probably doesnt alter nutritional quality of the food too much, but like the issue of
organic vs. conventional, little amounts of synthetic agents can build up in the body over
time.
Adam wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

10.
Oooh, spooky! Id never heard of Ray Peat until about 10 minutes ago when I started
searching for thyroid solutions and I found myself back here at good old MDA weird!
Apart from the fact that there isnt a plan, it doesnt sound as tasty as bacon.
Grokesque wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
+1 !!
Becky H wrote on October 9th, 2013
Reply

11.
I am firmly fixed in the primal protocol thank you very much. its wise to stay informed of
what others are doing, but I have yet to find anything that trumps the pb!
primal aly wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
+1
Tina wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

12.

Popes Nose thats what my dearly departed and very Catholic mom called it too.
And Ive followed in her footsteps.
Julie wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
We always called the popes nose the little organ that oil comes out of located on the
tail. We called the tail, the tail.
Otzi wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

My Momma would squeeze out that oil, rub it between her hands then massage it
into our scalps. We all had a thick head of hair.
Nancy wrote on October 9th, 2013
Reply

o
Its Parsons Nose here. And its the chefs treat. And I am invariably the chef so its
staying that way.
freerangepiglings wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

13.
Mmm, crunchy. My favorite is chicken skins. Stretched out on a cookie sheet (with sides,)
brushed with a little olive oil and seasoned with Old Bay or garlic salt then baked in the
oven until crispy. Had it for snack last night.
CrazyCatLady wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

Where do you get the chicken skins?

Stephanie Paris wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

From the chicken.

Nocona wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

Ha! Indeed, from the chicken.

I meant does she take it off a

whole chicken and the roast the chicken without the skin? Or maybe she buys
chicken breast pieces with the skin on and takes it from there? I guess I had
some fantasy of butchers selling skinless chicken breasts and saving the

chicken skins to sell them separately to customers like us.

a thing?
Stephanie Paris wrote on October 8th, 2013

Rendered chicken skin + onion = Schmaltz

Do it.
[Rona Thorne]: Amazing! (click on link below).
Paleo Bon Rurgundy wrote on October 8th, 2013

Is that

Old Bay has cottonseed oil in it that makes me sad.

Aria wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

14.
Totally missed the Blade Runner reference! Im still Primal after reading this and will
continue. But what Ive been really interested in is trying the Ketogenic stuff like
Bulletproof Coffee. I havent searched but Mark have you anything to say about this or
Elite runners going Keto?
Joe wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
It is more ketogenic to just drink black coffee without butter. You can of course add
MCT oil for ketone production but that is not the same as using your own fat stores
for that (if thats the goal ).
La Frite wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
Go to bengreenfieldfitness.com. He talks about it a lot. He did IronMan ketogenic.
Darcie wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
Looks like Mark did give his $0.02 on BP coffee.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-egg-coffee/#axzz2hEX6ARBl
Joe wrote on October 9th, 2013
Reply

o
Why yes, as a matter of fact Mark does have something to say about this.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-egg-coffee/#axzz2hEZEezSN
I do too. I tried the bulletproof coffee and kind of went through a phase where I was
drinking it every morning for a few months. Its kind of hard to find MCT oil that
doesnt taste gross, though I recommend regular virgin coconut oil. I think
bulletproof coffee is probably more ketogenic than yogurt or nuts in the morning, but
bacon and eggs are just as good. I was just liking how it filled me up until noon
without having to cook bacon & eggs every morning when Im already running late for
work, as its easy to whip up some bp coffee to drink in the car. I never tried the
primal egg coffee though, too scared of the raw eggs. Also, if you do MCT oil, take it
easy at first. It takes your body a while to adapt to such a high quantity of MCTs, it
can make you a bit sickly feeling.
peter wrote on October 9th, 2013
Reply

15.
I would avoid canned fish if I were you
Also its not the crunch we are craving its the salty fried quality of said morsel
steffo wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

16.
Thanks Mark! I eat quite a bit of canned salmon, so this is all very interesting to me. And
Id wondered about the crunch. I glanced at the Peat threads in the forums but quickly
lost interest. XD Hehe!
Aria wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

17.

What about Dairy? Peat is very big on dairy. I own a couple of his books and over the
years I think Ive read almost all of his online papers. I also subscribe to his newsletter. I
find his work very interesting however I do notice that many times he draws on studies
that were done in the 70s. Outdated perhaps? I dont know. With all of the information
about whats in milk ( IGF 1, IGF 2, GH, GHRF, TGF a, many steroid hormones, bio
active proteins and peptides, etc.) and its implication in many diseases ( heart disease,
metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance, acne, asthma, etc.) he still advocates eating
substantial amounts of dairy, except for yogurt due to the lactic acid content. I would love
to hear Marks thoughts on this issue because I think that is the biggest difference
between PB ( all Paleo really) and Peat.
Michelle wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
Swiss Paleo.
I like the paleo template approach myself.
Paleo Bon Rurgundy wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

18.
For some crunch try making Kale Chips (http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/melissadarabian/crispy-kale-chips-recipe/index.html ). This is what does it for me every time I
need to satisfy that crunch craving! You can even add some cayenne or other seasonings

to give it a kick
Chelsea wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

o
I love those things! Have to restrain myself from eating the whole batch at a sitting!
Paleo-curious wrote on October 9th, 2013

Reply

19.
Good on ya Mark for being on the Tom Woods show!
Paleo Bon Rurgundy wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

20.
Pork Rinds ROCK!!! When Im wishing for a crunchy munchy while watching TV or a
movie, I get a big bowl of them and Pig out (pun intended). And I dont even like that
many crunchy things.
Clover wrote on October 8th, 2013
Reply

21.
Salmon + crunch made me think of fried salmon skin if you havent tried it, do! Its
soooooo delicious.
Paleo-curious wrote on October 9th, 2013
Reply

22.
I liked you before you made the Blade Runner reference. Now I love you.
Ginny Tonic wrote on October 9th, 2013
Reply

23.
LOL popes nose. Reminds me of my Grandpa, thats what he called it. Thanks for that.
paulie wrote on October 9th, 2013
Reply

24.
Being raised in a Jamaican household, I can tell you that oxtail, fish head soup, turkey
neck, tripe, tongue, cow feet, chicken feet, liver etc. were staples. My mother and
grandmother were raised to use the whole animal and its funny, now that Ive started this
whole Primal journey, just how much I can learn from my mother and aunt about
preparing some of these dishes (with a few tweeks here and there).
Samantha L wrote on October 9th, 2013
Reply

25.
For salty crunch, our family will cook up the shrimp tails left over from a good seafood
stew, Just throw them in a pan with some coconut oil and a pinch of salt and cook those
babies to crunchy perfection!
emmaclaire wrote on October 9th, 2013
Reply

o
Hmmm, Ill give this a try! When I was little I begged for the salty, crunchy tails off my
moms pan-fried fish alas, she used cornmeal breading so theyre off my menu
now. But I do always end up with plenty of shrimp tails going to waste what a good
idea!
Paleo-curious wrote on October 9th, 2013
Reply

26.
Some folks feel the craving for crunch comes from acrylamide addiction. Acrylamides
form when food is exposed to high heat, such as toasting and browning.
Susan Cable wrote on October 9th, 2013
Reply

27.

Are freeze dried fuit paleo? I tried freeze-dried pineapple, its super crispy, sweet and
delicious
Joanna wrote on October 11th, 2013
Reply

28.
Crispiness is the burnt fat after charring meat! Of course we love this stuff
Dr. Anthony Gustin wrote on October 11th, 2013
Reply

29.
Is it true Ray Peat believes Coca Cola is healthy?? I dont think its only fruit he advocates
from what Ive read. Ive been following some of Ray Peats articles from a certain
practitioner posting on Facebook. His articles on PUFAs, livestock feed and Carageenan
were eye openers & very helpful for ME & adjusting my diet. Carageenan was triggering
my IBS, bloating & GI cramping.
>>Ray Peat lost some credibility when he promoted drinking Coca Cola as healthy. I
found this quote from a Ray Peat himself at Ray Peat Q&A website: *The brown stuff in
coffee is very similar to the coke caramel; when I cant get good coffee and juice, coke is
convenient.*
crosswind wrote on October 11th, 2013
Reply

o
Hes talking specifically about Mexican Coca Cola. Coca Cola in mexico is made with
actual sugar, rather than high fructose corn syrup or glucose-fructose. He uses sugar
and honey as a supplement to fruit sugars, and has always said that the best sugars
are from fruit.
Devin wrote on October 15th, 2013
Reply

30.

When eating canned salmon, I always eat the skin and the bones. I also get the crunch
by eating the cartilage from the chicken breast, you know, the long triangular piece, or
basically any piece of meat on the bone or the ends of the pork ribs. Still grosses out my
daughter. Any thoughts/comments on this
Robert wrote on October 12th, 2013
Reply

31.
Just had to add another appreciative comment for the Bladerunner reference! My semimuffled cackle of glee elicited startled looks from my office mates. Sadly they would
understand neither the reference nor my delight at your interpretation.
Amy wrote on October 16th, 2013
Reply

32.
Love your site Mark. This post was interesting to me. I am not a big fan of canning but if
done properly it can be very valuable. And I didnt realize salmon had so much vitamin D.
Thanks for sharing!
Alfonso.
Alfonso Sarette wrote on November 19th, 2013
Reply

33.
Just had a thought on crispiness, inspired by some chicken wings that were not
undercooked, but just barely. The skin was not crispy anywhere, and I almost couldnt
finish them. Crispy skin isnt necessarily an indication of being adequately cooked, but its
a safer bet than soft, limp skin. Blech. So maybe thats a factor tactile food safety
indicators.
SRMJ wrote on May 15th, 2014
Reply

34.

Hello i am kavin, its my first time to commenting anywhere, when i read this post i thought
i
could also make comment due to this brilliant post.
Emulateur 3ds comment Ca marche wrote on May 28th, 2014
Reply

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Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

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ilovethesea
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Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did

wrong

Unread postby ilovethesea Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:31 pm

Okay so today was my first day trying to fully embrace the Peat style eating, except
midway through it went horribly wrong!
I started the day with coffee which I never drink. Added tons of cream, a big spoonful of
honey and a spoonful of Knox plain gelatin. I was feeling really good. Then I ate several big
slices of cheese which I continued snacking on right up until I started making lunch. (I had a
late breakfast and early lunch so it was not even 2 hours between them.)
So then I start my lunch with a glass of freshly squeezed oj, lightly salted. Again something
I never drink. As I was drinking it I had some more cheese... didn't feel that hungry or
anything but thought I better have some more food so I made some white rice. Added salt
and lots of butter.
I was going to make more food but then as I started eating the rice and continued drinking
the oj, all of a sudden I felt hot, started to sweat, and then got really lightheaded and
dizzy and weak.
I was talking on the phone to a friend and had to get off and lie down. I was totally clumsy
and couldn't think straight. The feeling didn't go away so after 10 mins or so I got up and
fried some eggs in butter. Thought maybe I needed more protein than the cheese was
giving me. Ate one but I could barely get it down and still felt weird anyway. Lied down
again.
By this time I'm suddenly ravenous. I got up again and had some raw carrots. No change.
Then wondered do I need more sugar? So I had some spoonfuls of vanilla Haagen Daz. Then I
tried to nap it off for 30 mins and it sort of worked, but when I got up I was still feeling
weird. So as a last resort I had some PUFA rice crackers that were lying around the house
and some homemade chocolate graham cracker squares. Didn't really help though.
And now here I am. Still feel weird and weak - and hungry yet no food seems appealing.
What the hell did I do??
T
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kiran
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby kiran Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:36 pm

For starters, I'd avoid cream, It can increase endotoxin absorption. Drink your coffee with
milk instead.
Be wary of cheese, I have noticed that not all cheeses agree with me.
With that much butter/cream/ice cream, you may have pushed your body into fat burning
mode. Might want to stick to sugar burning mode until you know how much fat you can
tolerate.
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ilovethesea
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby ilovethesea Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:24 pm

Okay so what causes the endotoxins to be released in the first place? Can that be
prevented? And I take it you're saying it's the fat in the cream increases their absorption?
I really dislike milk so that's why I wanted to ease in with cream mixed into other things
instead of having to drink it straight.
Same with cheese. I much prefer to eat cheese than drink milk. I've actually been a pretty
big cheese eater long before this and it's never given me problems. Although, I've usually

eaten it with wheat instead of rice like I had today.

I've also been pretty "fatty" in the past when following Weston Price stuff -- so eating tons
of butter, coconut oil and ice cream isn't new to me at all. The only time I've had issues is
when I've made this Weston Price muffin recipe that has tons of butter, coconut oil and
eggs - that gives me stomach cramps if I eat too many of them in one sitting.
But I don't have stomach cramps today so I feel like this doesn't have to do with fat. It's now
been 4 hours since this started and I STILL feel strange and weak. Is it the sugars? Too
much? Too little? I don't know what on earth to eat now.
Just took an aspirin as I feel like I totally stressed out my body somehow. Hopefully that
doesn't mess me up even more...
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Dean
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby Dean Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:33 pm

I don't like milk either, but if you add enough sugar it tastes like melted ice cream.
You didn't bloom the gelatin? I guess if that was the problem though you would have felt it
in the stomach. Maybe it was just too much of everything right out of the gate?
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ilovethesea
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby ilovethesea Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:49 pm

Oh are we supposed to let the gelatin go all congealed? I'm not into Jello either so I thought
if I just melted it into hot coffee I'd get the nutrients without the texture.
Is that wrong??
The aspirin is making me feel somewhat better now but still confused about what the hell
happened today. Maybe I'm so unused to so much sugar, salt, fat and caffeine at once that
my body couldn't take it? Or at least not without a whole bunch of wheat to soak it up? I
realized today how carb-heavy my diet was... I miss the bread and pasta already - sob!!
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charlie
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby charlie Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:51 pm

ilovethesea, Ray Peat has said that making all these changes, can be extremely stressful on
the body. So I think it might be best to take it slow, and ease into it.
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Dean
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby Dean Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:38 pm

ilovethesea wrote:Oh are we supposed to let the gelatin go all congealed? I'm not into Jello either so I thought

if I just melted it into hot coffee I'd get the nutrients without the texture.

Is that wrong??

Well I'm no expert, but I think if you are going to use something non-hydrolyzed like the
Knox...You'd be better off sprinkling it into a little water and letting it bloom. It will
congeal real quick in a little water. Then, you could scoop some out into your coffee and
dissolve it in. I think that would be better, but I could be wrong.
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby ilovethesea Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:04 pm

I found where I read the gelatin melted in coffee thing. It was on this
thread: viewtopic.php?p=30
"Although the prepared powdered gelatin doesn't require any cooking, dissolving it in hot
water makes it digest a little more quickly. "
Did I misinterpret that?
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Dean
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby Dean Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:18 pm

I'm sure there are some people who can pound down the gelatin powder, hydrolyzed or not.
I think most who don't gel their gelatin though use the hydrolyzed. I could be wrong.
Everyone's digestion and digestive capabilities are different.
I do think though that if you are going to use the non-hydrolyzed gelatin powder, but don't
want to consume it gelled, it would be advisable to bloom it in a little water or cool liquid
first. It will congeal in just a few minutes. Then, you could scoop the gel or some of it into
your coffee or other hot beverage and dissolve it in. JMO, though.
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Lucy
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby Lucy Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:25 pm

kiran wrote:For starters, I'd avoid cream, It can increase endotoxin absorption. Drink your coffee with milk

instead.

Huh, why should we be avoiding cream? Please explain how it increases endotoxin
absorption... I thought milk/sat fat is beneficial, unless you are trying to lose weight.
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Shrimp
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby Shrimp Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:44 pm

...all of a sudden I felt hot, started to sweat, and then got really lightheaded and dizzy and weak

This is how I felt when I went hyperthyroid. Did you notice if your heart rate went up at all?
Are you on thyroid medication?
Maybe try avoiding the coffee for now; it might be pushing your metabolism too much on
top of everything else. Easing into things is good, as others have said.
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kiran
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby kiran Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:22 pm

Lucy wrote:
kiran wrote:For starters, I'd avoid cream, It can increase endotoxin absorption. Drink your coffee with milk

instead.

Huh, why should we be avoiding cream? Please explain how it increases endotoxin absorption... I thought
milk/sat fat is beneficial, unless you are trying to lose weight.

Well, here's a study that says that the consumption of cream increases the plasma
lipopolysaccharides (aka endotoxin).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2858203/
Here's another study that suggests that endotoxin is positively correlated with fat intake.

"In humans, no significant relation was observed between cardiovascular disease risk factors, carbohydrate
and protein intakes, and plasma LPS concentration. Conversely, positive correlations were observed with fat

and energy intakes. In a multivariate analysis, endotoxemia was independently associated with energy
intake. Compared with the control mice, mice fed a high-energy diet showed an increase in plasma LPS.
However, in mice fed a high-carbohydrate diet, the increase in plasma LPS was blunted compared with mice
fed a high-fat diet."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18469242
Here's a blog post about the subject:
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/ ... toxin.html
I think I wouldn't necessarily agree with Peter's conclusions though.
So atleast in the short run, cream might be a problem.
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby Lucy Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:47 pm

Thanks, that's interesting, how did you come across this? Do you know Peat's opinion on
these studies? I don't remember him ever talking about this...
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby Lucy Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:55 pm

What do you think about this: http://www.andrewkimblog.com/2013/01/sa ... -fats.html

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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby kiran Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:27 pm

This study was actually some news in the Paleo-sphere a while ago. I haven't read anything
from Ray on this topic either.
I agree with Andrew's blog post too.
I think the moral of the story is to be wary of large amounts of cream or other saturated fat
(all fat in general perhaps!), especially if you have gut issues.
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jyb
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby jyb Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:47 pm

Dean wrote:I'm sure there are some people who can pound down the gelatin powder, hydrolyzed or not. I

think most who don't gel their gelatin though use the hydrolyzed. I could be wrong. Everyone's digestion and
digestive capabilities are different.

I do think though that if you are going to use the non-hydrolyzed gelatin powder, but don't want to consume
it gelled, it would be advisable to bloom it in a little water or cool liquid first. It will congeal in just a few
minutes. Then, you could scoop the gel or some of it into your coffee or other hot beverage and dissolve it
in. JMO, though.

I use the non-hydro version. I dissolve it in warm water. It's not very nice texture to drink,
but its quick. Do you know why its better to let it bloom?
By bloom I assume you mean to let it gellify a bit, but not wait so long until it becomes
chewy like gummy bears.
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jyb
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby jyb Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:53 pm

kiran wrote:This study was actually some news in the Paleo-sphere a while ago. I haven't read anything from

Ray on this topic either.

I agree with Andrew's blog post too.

I think the moral of the story is to be wary of large amounts of cream or other saturated fat (all fat in general
perhaps!), especially if you have gut issues.

I recall reading somewhere RP saying he could eat a quart of ice cream a day, which seems
like a lot of cream. So, it would be interesting to get his opinion on this.
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Bryan
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby Bryan Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:35 pm

I would look at supplemental thyroid and caffeine intake as probably the main issues.
Gelatin can be a problem for some peoples digestion depending on the kind and how it was
processed. Sugar might be a new thing for you too? Starch, if you ate a lot in the past and
tolerated it, might effect your blood sugar somehow. It might be an interesting experiment
to see if the starch helps keep blood sugar higher or something. Peat used to recommend
salty starch / carbohydrate for insomnia I think.
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Lucy
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby Lucy Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:08 am

jyb wrote:
kiran wrote:This study was actually some news in the Paleo-sphere a while ago. I haven't read anything from

Ray on this topic either.

I agree with Andrew's blog post too.

I think the moral of the story is to be wary of large amounts of cream or other saturated fat (all fat in general
perhaps!), especially if you have gut issues.

I recall reading somewhere RP saying he could eat a quart of ice cream a day, which seems like a lot of
cream. So, it would be interesting to get his opinion on this.

I agree, someone should ask him. My opinion was always that he doesn't think sat. fat is a
problem, but I may be wrong. Maybe that's the reason I don't get well with only diet - I love
ice cream and other whole milk products
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Re: Dizzy/lightheaded/weak - not sure what I did wrong

Unread postby John Eels Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:19 pm

@ilovethesea
You have felt fine with fat and cheese so far and you say you never drank OJ and coffee. I
don't think the coffee is causing the problems you experience and neither does the gelatin
which most people experience as helpful in alleviating digestive issues (the one that Peat
recommends is by Great Lakes, see www.greatlakesgelatin.com, the green bottle on which it
says Collagen Hydrolysate is the one that dissolves well in cold water. It's pricey but worth
the investment. I have tried other ones and they tasted funky).
I don't think your hyperthyroid either, rather you are hypothyroid. You ate lots of fat in the
past; I suspect you were on a low carb/high fat diet. It's likely that you have small
intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) which feeds on the fructose in the OJ (see for more
information on the connection between hypothyroidism and SIBO see this study). Bad breath
after high sugar consumption is indicative of sugar being fermented by bacteria. I suspect
the sugar load is too heavy for you right now. You don't need more sugar you need less. Try
to stay clear from fructose, lactose and sucrose for a while. Introduce those sugars back
into your diet gradually and each by themselves to see how you react to them. Grape sugar
(glucose) is the easiest to digest and feeds very little bacteria b/c it's absorbed quickly;
that could be your staple for a while. Pregnenolone (and if you're a woman progesterone)
help you raise your metabolism and reduce the hormones of stress.
It might not be SIBO and the culprit is H. pylori. SIBO and H. pylori share common symptoms
and both are related to digestive issues (I link you to two articles by Stephan
Guyenet: Sugar, Hydrogen, Bacteria and Maldigestion, and More Thoughts on Hydrogen Gas and
Bacterial Overgrowth).
You felt hot and weird. My hypothesis is that you experienced a sudden raise in serotonin.
Danny Roddy writes about the digestive system in this article. Roddy writes:
One system that is greatly affected by the reduced blood supply is the intestine, which produces around 95%
of serotonin in the body (Constance R. Martin). Dr. Peat has described serotonin as a primitive "protective"
hormone responsible for producing contractions, diarrhea, and vomiting in the event that something noxious
is consumed.

Serotonin is also involved in heat production (hyperthermia is a symptom in serotonin

syndrome). Whatever irritates the intestine increases serotonin. So sugar can add stress

when it feeds bacteria which irritate the intestine. In response the irritation the body
releases serotonin.
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Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Unread postby Mittir Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:08 pm

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superhuman wrote:Mittir: is he using instant coffee or filter coffee? or what type of coffee

He uses black roast coffee with strong drip brewing. 3 days for 1 lb of coffee means
about 150 grams daily, that is about 2000 mg of caffeine. Extraction of caffeine
depends on temperature and time. I do not know if extraction rate is lower
for small amount of water. If the extraction is 30 percent then there is about
600 mg of caffeine in one cup. With higher extraction rate it can be as high as 1400 mg.
I use instant coffee to get a clear idea about caffeine and magnesium intake.
He uses black roast coffee for Niacin intake, he gets about 40 mg daily.
Black roast coffee has much higher content of niacin. According to nutritiondata
100 grams of instant coffee has about 3000 mg of caffeine.
Edit: Since you posted this question in "Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
Discussion/Comment Thread" , i assumed you read RP's email response on his coffee
habit. I was just talking about his brewing process . If you have not read the email,
he adds that brewed cup of strong coffee with milk to make "cafe con leche".
He does not drink that drip brewed strong cup of coffee straight up.
Last edited by Mittir on Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Unread postby visionofstrength Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:50 pm

Mittir wrote:
superhuman wrote:Mittir: is he using instant coffee or filter coffee? or what type of coffee

He uses black roast coffee with strong drip brewing. 3 days for 1 lb of coffee means
about 150 grams daily, that is about 2000 mg of caffeine. Extraction of caffeine
depends on temperature and time. I do not know if extraction rate is lower
for small amount of water. If the extraction is 30 percent then there is about
600 mg of caffeine in one cup. With higher extraction rate it can be as high as 1400 mg.
I use instant coffee to get a clear idea about caffeine and magnesium intake.
He uses black roast coffee for Niacin intake, he gets about 40 mg daily.
Black roast coffee has much higher content of niacin. According to nutritiondata
100 grams of instant coffee has about 3000 mg of caffeine.

M, for safety purposes, let's advise everyone of the cautionary part of his email, which is
that he dilutes his strong coffee extract greatly with milk, so that the final result is
stronger than standard restaurant coffee.
Since the extract he uses is quite strong, that would mean that after mixing it with milk to
make a cafe con leche as he does (in a proportion that seems to range from 2:1 to 4:1), the
taste of the coffee would be very weak (as he has said elsewhere).
He also writes that coffee is much more than caffeine, and that taking very strong coffee
with a meal can slow the absorption of caffeine, which otherwise would be (he says) "too
much caffeine at once".
Nowhere does he advise drinking strong black coffee on an empty stomach.
Here's M's exchange with Peat:

Mittir wrote:I had this impression from your interviews that you drink several cups of strong coffee .

But someone at forum is claiming that you drink weak coffee in the form of
" cafe con leche". Can you please clarify if you drink weak coffee or strong coffee.
What is your daily caffeine intake? I have heard you recommending 3-5 cups of coffee.
What do you think is the safe dose of caffeine intake daily for average
person?( with sugar and milk) Do you think it is safe to use caffeine tablet
of 600 mg or more to treat fatty liver?

Ray Peat wrote:That would be too much caffeine at once, unless it's with a big meal to slow its absorption.

Coffee is much more than caffeine. A pound of coffee might last me three days, I'm not sure, but I use as
much for a cup as Folger's says to use for a quart. When the concentrated extract is mixed with milk, the
mixture is stronger than standard restaurant coffee.
Disclaimer: The views expressed here are solely those of the author and Ray Peat has not approved, endorsed, embraced,
friended, liked, tweeted or authorized this post.
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Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

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Unread postby Adnada Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:25 pm

Ray's response to my question on drilling and filling cavities and root canals:
"I think filling a cavity soon is best, and with care the pulp can often be preserved, but a
root filling is better than extraction; the material used for a root filling doesn't matter
much, if calcium oxide is used at the end. Calcium oxide would be best for the whole thing,
but the x-ray mania has discouraged that use."
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Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Unread postby superhuman Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:28 am

Mittir wrote:
superhuman wrote:Mittir: is he using instant coffee or filter coffee? or what type of coffee

He uses black roast coffee with strong drip brewing. 3 days for 1 lb of coffee means
about 150 grams daily, that is about 2000 mg of caffeine. Extraction of caffeine
depends on temperature and time. I do not know if extraction rate is lower
for small amount of water. If the extraction is 30 percent then there is about
600 mg of caffeine in one cup. With higher extraction rate it can be as high as 1400 mg.
I use instant coffee to get a clear idea about caffeine and magnesium intake.
He uses black roast coffee for Niacin intake, he gets about 40 mg daily.
Black roast coffee has much higher content of niacin. According to nutritiondata
100 grams of instant coffee has about 3000 mg of caffeine.

Edit: Since you posted this question in "Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Discussion/Comment Thread" , i assumed you read RP's email response on his coffee
habit. I was just talking about his brewing process . If you have not read the email,
he adds that brewed cup of strong coffee with milk to make "cafe con leche".
He does not drink that drip brewed strong cup of coffee straight up.

Thanx a ton Mittir. Man that is strong and alot of coffee/caffeine. Wich i love to hear since
ive experienced with it myself.
RP: told me in a email that coffee/caffeine can make up for lack of thyroid hormone and
hypothyroid could benefit from a dozen a day
How much are you doing now?
Do you know if RP uses a machine or do it manually since if you do it manually i guess you
can just run the coffee through the filter one more time to make it stronger
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Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:06 am

superhuman wrote:
Mittir wrote:
superhuman wrote:Mittir: is he using instant coffee or filter coffee? or what type of coffee

He uses black roast coffee with strong drip brewing. 3 days for 1 lb of coffee means
about 150 grams daily, that is about 2000 mg of caffeine. Extraction of caffeine
depends on temperature and time. I do not know if extraction rate is lower
for small amount of water. If the extraction is 30 percent then there is about
600 mg of caffeine in one cup. With higher extraction rate it can be as high as 1400 mg.
I use instant coffee to get a clear idea about caffeine and magnesium intake.
He uses black roast coffee for Niacin intake, he gets about 40 mg daily.
Black roast coffee has much higher content of niacin. According to nutritiondata
100 grams of instant coffee has about 3000 mg of caffeine.

Edit: Since you posted this question in "Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
Discussion/Comment Thread" , i assumed you read RP's email response on his coffee
habit. I was just talking about his brewing process . If you have not read the email,

he adds that brewed cup of strong coffee with milk to make "cafe con leche".
He does not drink that drip brewed strong cup of coffee straight up.

Thanx a ton Mittir. Man that is strong and alot of coffee/caffeine. Wich i love to hear since ive experienced
with it myself.
RP: told me in a email that coffee/caffeine can make up for lack of thyroid hormone and hypothyroid could
benefit from a dozen a day
How much are you doing now?
Do you know if RP uses a machine or do it manually since if you do it manually i guess you can just run the
coffee through the filter one more time to make it stronger

I do not know if he uses machine or manually. I drink iced milk coffee, this is the major
source of calories for me. I drink 4-6 cups a day. I add 4-5 grams of instant coffee,
1-2 tablespoon of sugar ( i am using sugar syrup now, it tastes better), some ice to
1 cup of whole milk. Besides magnesium, coffee, especially instant coffee is a good source
of potassium. I get about 3000 mg of potassium, 250 mg of magnesium, 140-225 grams
of sugar (sucrose plus lactose) from 6 cups of iced coffee. I believe extra potassium
and magnesium in this concoction help to manage the added sugar. It calms me down
and i even drink a cup before i go to bed with no sleep problem. Coffee increases
metabolism, so i have to make sure i am getting all the required nutrients
from liver and other foods.
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Unread postby superhuman Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:20 am

Thats awesome, did not now instant coffee had that much potassium.
Gonna need to smack down some of that myself.
But hasnt it been debated about instant coffee and bad fats/oils and stuff in it?
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Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:41 am

superhuman wrote:Thats awesome, did not now instant coffee had that much potassium.

Gonna need to smack down some of that myself.

But hasnt it been debated about instant coffee and bad fats/oils and stuff in it?

Potassium content depends on variety of reasons, but generally it is between

1 to 2 percent of dry bean weight. There should be good amount potassium in
brewed coffee too. I might switch to RP style brewing in future.
RP has mentioned on an average instant coffee is as good as brewed coffee.
I do not remember any debate on oil content of instant coffee.
I did a "coffee" search in Email Advice section and got several RP response
on coffee. He mentioned he used to drink on average 12 cups of coffee.
Here is the quote

Ray Peat wrote:ttramone

Me: Just wondering why some of us get severe withdrawals (headaches, fatigue, drowsiness, low mood) if
we don't use coffee daily. We don't get side effects from drinking coffee, just if we don't drink it for 24 hours
(sometimes less). These 'withdrawals' can last as long as 5-6 days. Why would this happen? We are thinking
there could be issues with our liver? Adrenals?

RP: I suspect that it happens mostly with hypothyroidism, because in the 1970s I averaged dozens of cups a
day, and thought about it as soon as I woke up, then suddenly after I took some thyroid, I didn't feel any need
for it.
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=1035&start=110#p25975

I was listening to PUJA hormone (34 min )where he mentioned

Ray Peat wrote:It does not hurt to drink 50 if that is what balances your metabolism ,But i think everyone

should try to get from 3 to 5 cups a day ,there has been studies in which people who drank more than 5 cups
had lower incidence of various kind of cancer and lower incidence of dementia."

Note to newcomers :i am not suggesting you drink 50 cups of a day.

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Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

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Unread postby Such_Saturation Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:29 pm

Mittir wrote:Note to newcomers :i am not suggesting you drink 50 cups of a day.

Someone is still going to try that.

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Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:36 pm

I am thinking if i heard it right. Is he saying 50 or 15?

I hope someone can check it to be sure.
I think 50 cups will be physically impossible, at least for me.
My interpretation is that he is using 50 cup as a figure of speech,
just to mean, whatever it takes to keep metabolism up.

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Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

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Unread postby tara Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:40 pm

My current coffee routine most days is:

I make very strong coffee with about 10 grams instant decaf coffee powder, 50 grams
sugar, 1/4-1/2 teaspoon salt (none of this measured accurately, so it varies a bit) and
enough hot water to dissolve (~100ml). Stir till it does dissolve. Pour a bit of the milk out of
the top of a 2l bottle skim milk. Pour coffee mix into milk bottle.
These proportions are guided by what tastes good to me, and to not require me to eat more
food at the same time to balance the coffee effect. It is much weaker than a bought latte. I
seem to get withdrawal from full caffeine coffee, worsening migraines, starting in my sleep
when I can't interrupt the withdrawal with more coffee. Otherwise I would probably be
drinking full caffeine coffee.
I take the coffee milk bottle with me wherever I go in a cooler bag. At home and work I
heat a cup at a time in the microwave whenever I feel like it. If I have not got access to
microwave, I just drink it cold. Most days I drink 1.5-2l of this.
"Garfield, you'll have to learn some self-control, and stop eating between meals. Do you know the meaning of self control?"
"I don't know the meaning of between meals."
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Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:47 pm

I used to get moderate caffeine withdrawal if i missed coffee for a day.

In recent days, i experimented i can go without coffee for days

without any kind of withdrawal or cravings. The experience is similar

to the one RP experienced after adding thyroid. I do not have strong cravings
for coffee anymore but i feel better is i drink it.
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Unread postby Such_Saturation Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:08 pm

Mittir wrote:I used to get moderate caffeine withdrawal if i missed coffee for a day.

In recent days, i experimented i can go without coffee for days

without any kind of withdrawal or cravings. The experience is similar
to the one RP experienced after adding thyroid. I do not have strong cravings
for coffee anymore but i feel better is i drink it.

If you try coffee with no sugar, you will notice that there is a definite "high". I think that is
what gets most people.
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Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:37 pm

I was never a regular coffee drinker until there was a Starbucks across my place.
That was around the time i was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism.
All the hypothyroid people i know are heavy coffee drinker too.
Now i realize that it was not the Starbucks that push me to coffee, it was the
hypo condition. I always added tons of sugar and cream to coffee and most
people i know who drinks black coffee are jittery.
Another thing i have noticed that since adding 1-2 quarts of apple juice
a day i do not have cravings for my regular comfort foods like french fries.
pizza , burger and all kind of fried foods. I thought those were my favorite foods.
I think apple juice has helped me to have a steady blood sugar which i was missing
before. I still crave liver if i miss it for few days, that is always a good sign.
I think my diet is near perfect now, only thing i plan to add in future is gelatine.
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Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

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Unread postby Such_Saturation Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:52 pm

Mittir wrote:I was never a regular coffee drinker until there was a Starbucks across my place.

That was around the time i was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism.
All the hypothyroid people i know are heavy coffee drinker too.
Now i realize that it was not the Starbucks that push me to coffee, it was the
hypo condition. I always added tons of sugar and cream to coffee and most
people i know who drinks black coffee are jittery.
Another thing i have noticed that since adding 1-2 quarts of apple juice
a day i do not have cravings for my regular comfort foods like french fries.
pizza , burger and all kind of fried foods. I thought those were my favorite foods.
I think apple juice has helped me to have a steady blood sugar which i was missing

before. I still crave liver if i miss it for few days, that is always a good sign.
I think my diet is near perfect now, only thing i plan to add in future is gelatine.

I am under the impression that Starbucks coffee has something special to give a special
"high". It is either an added stimulant like caffeine or something to let you tolerate more
coffee.
META
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Unread postby 4peatssake Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:24 pm

Mittir wrote:I was never a regular coffee drinker until there was a Starbucks across my place.

That was around the time i was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism.
All the hypothyroid people i know are heavy coffee drinker too.
Now i realize that it was not the Starbucks that push me to coffee, it was the
hypo condition. I always added tons of sugar and cream to coffee and most
people i know who drinks black coffee are jittery.
Another thing i have noticed that since adding 1-2 quarts of apple juice
a day i do not have cravings for my regular comfort foods like french fries.
pizza , burger and all kind of fried foods. I thought those were my favorite foods.
I think apple juice has helped me to have a steady blood sugar which i was missing
before. I still crave liver if i miss it for few days, that is always a good sign.
I think my diet is near perfect now, only thing i plan to add in future is gelatine.

Hi Mittir,
What's your near perfect diet now, if you don't mind sharing? And what supplements are you
currently taking?
I drink ice coffee like you as well and it makes up the bulk of my calories. Very interesting
that apple juice knocked down the cravings for your previous "comfort foods" and seems to
have balanced your blood sugar.
Thanks!
The attempt to steer a person can make it hard for them to move, because it inactivates their own guidance system. - Ray
Peat
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Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

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Unread postby Blossom Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:31 pm

Such_Saturation wrote:
Mittir wrote:I was never a regular coffee drinker until there was a Starbucks across my place.

That was around the time i was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism.
All the hypothyroid people i know are heavy coffee drinker too.
Now i realize that it was not the Starbucks that push me to coffee, it was the
hypo condition. I always added tons of sugar and cream to coffee and most
people i know who drinks black coffee are jittery.
Another thing i have noticed that since adding 1-2 quarts of apple juice
a day i do not have cravings for my regular comfort foods like french fries.
pizza , burger and all kind of fried foods. I thought those were my favorite foods.
I think apple juice has helped me to have a steady blood sugar which i was missing
before. I still crave liver if i miss it for few days, that is always a good sign.
I think my diet is near perfect now, only thing i plan to add in future is gelatine.

I am under the impression that Starbucks coffee has something special to give a special "high". It is either an
added stimulant like caffeine or something to let you tolerate more coffee.

The "something special" to me is the extra shot or two of espresso!

Medical science is making such remarkable progress that soon none of us will be well. Aldous Huxley
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Unread postby 4peatssake Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:44 pm

Blossom wrote:
Such_Saturation wrote:
Mittir wrote:I was never a regular coffee drinker until there was a Starbucks across my place.

That was around the time i was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism.
All the hypothyroid people i know are heavy coffee drinker too.
Now i realize that it was not the Starbucks that push me to coffee, it was the
hypo condition. I always added tons of sugar and cream to coffee and most
people i know who drinks black coffee are jittery.
Another thing i have noticed that since adding 1-2 quarts of apple juice
a day i do not have cravings for my regular comfort foods like french fries.
pizza , burger and all kind of fried foods. I thought those were my favorite foods.
I think apple juice has helped me to have a steady blood sugar which i was missing
before. I still crave liver if i miss it for few days, that is always a good sign.
I think my diet is near perfect now, only thing i plan to add in future is gelatine.

I am under the impression that Starbucks coffee has something special to give a special "high". It is either an
added stimulant like caffeine or something to let you tolerate more coffee.

The "something special" to me is the extra shot or two of espresso!

lol Blossom. But I have to agree with Such that there's a little something else going on.
I never got nearly as wasted doing espresso shots in France as I do if I drink Starbucks.
Oh and I don't recommend doing espresso shots without lots of milk n sugar.
The attempt to steer a person can make it hard for them to move, because it inactivates their own guidance system. - Ray
Peat
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Unread postby Such_Saturation Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:55 pm

Blossom wrote:
Such_Saturation wrote:
Mittir wrote:I was never a regular coffee drinker until there was a Starbucks across my place.

That was around the time i was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism.
All the hypothyroid people i know are heavy coffee drinker too.
Now i realize that it was not the Starbucks that push me to coffee, it was the
hypo condition. I always added tons of sugar and cream to coffee and most
people i know who drinks black coffee are jittery.
Another thing i have noticed that since adding 1-2 quarts of apple juice
a day i do not have cravings for my regular comfort foods like french fries.
pizza , burger and all kind of fried foods. I thought those were my favorite foods.
I think apple juice has helped me to have a steady blood sugar which i was missing

before. I still crave liver if i miss it for few days, that is always a good sign.
I think my diet is near perfect now, only thing i plan to add in future is gelatine.

I am under the impression that Starbucks coffee has something special to give a special "high". It is either an
added stimulant like caffeine or something to let you tolerate more coffee.

The "something special" to me is the extra shot or two of espresso!

I never drink less than three espressos at a time but it's nothing like that stuff!
META
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Unread postby superhuman Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:58 pm

Mittir wrote:I was never a regular coffee drinker until there was a Starbucks across my place.

That was around the time i was diagnosed with sub-clinical hypothyroidism.
All the hypothyroid people i know are heavy coffee drinker too.
Now i realize that it was not the Starbucks that push me to coffee, it was the
hypo condition. I always added tons of sugar and cream to coffee and most
people i know who drinks black coffee are jittery.
Another thing i have noticed that since adding 1-2 quarts of apple juice
a day i do not have cravings for my regular comfort foods like french fries.
pizza , burger and all kind of fried foods. I thought those were my favorite foods.
I think apple juice has helped me to have a steady blood sugar which i was missing
before. I still crave liver if i miss it for few days, that is always a good sign.
I think my diet is near perfect now, only thing i plan to add in future is gelatine.

That is awesome.
I also notice that if im hungry or low blood sugar, starving whatever that all the cravings
come along etc.
If i just load up on sugar nothing is tempting anymore.
Its like i could not single out one item of food that is more tempting to me then the other if
ive had my sugars.
Im gonna seriously add much more coffee to my day. Do the RP protocol of 150-180g filter
coffee a day. Thats like 3x amount they recommend when you make a Liter/quart of
coffee. But yeah its easier with the instant coffee since you know exactly how much you
are getting. I see 40g is around 1200mg caffeine wich should be great for me
Say you take 40g instant coffee, boild some water so it mixes fill the rest with milk so it
becomes 1 liter volume. That would be something i guess? and have it in a thermos?
Gonna start changing from cottage cheese to milk so that i can just put alot of milk in the
coffee.
How much in terms of caffeine and mineral content does one have to use from the instant
coffee to get the same amount as 150-180g filter/brew coffee?
Last edited by superhuman on Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:05 pm

@4peatssake
My current diet is following
4-6 cups of Iced Coffee
Farmer's Cheese from 1 to 1.5 quart of milk, with a lot of salt.
Apple Juice with lot of baking soda 1-2 quart. Avg 1.5 quart
Beef liver almost daily. weekly its between 6-10 oz
I still eat some rice at lunch with fish or meat and some vegetables
If i drink 1-2 cups of Apple juice with rice i do not get the usual sugar crash.

I add about 1-2 tbs of coconut oil with rice to make it safer.
RP has mentioned fructose acts like Insulin in metabolising glucose and fructose.
At dinner chicken neck or fish head soup for thyroid. It is a big factor.
I also eat other foods if that is tasty and something i like.
I am eating or drinking some thing almost every 1-2 hours.
Carrot salad with vinegar and a lot of coconut oil or bamboo shoot.
Sometime i just eat apple, guava or pineapple with some coconut oil
instead of carrot salad. It has similar effect, but not as strong as carrot salad.
Protein intake is at least 80 grams often 100 grams. I have gained a lot of
muscle since starting peat without doing any kind of exercise.
Lost about 22 lbs in last 1.5 years and i am still losing.
I believe calcium played a big role in weight loss.
Supplement:
Extra calcium 500-1000 mg in addition to calcium i get from milk and cheese.
Extra calcium increases the calcium to phosphorus ratio.
I add some calcium hydroxide (slaked lime, made from
oyster shell) neutralized with vinegar, which gives me calcium acetate,
It is a phosphate binder.It is not peat approved but i can not tolerate egg shell powder.
I take this with liver or phosphorus rich meals like fish or meat to lower phosphorus
absorption. I think it has tremendously helped me in increasing temperature and
metabolism.
Niacinamide 100 mg 2-3 times a day with meal. It has been a huge help.
Vitamin E 400 mg once or every other day.
Vitamin D 100,000 to 200,000 once a month. That is equivalent to
3000 iu - 6000 IU daily. It made a huge difference.
Cyproheptadine 1/4th to half mg twice a day. It has been so far
the most wonderful thing for me. I have been using it for about 3 weeks now.
Bag breathing 2 minutes 3-4 times a day.
I have probably missed something. I can not remember now.
Edit:
I forgot to mention red light therapy. I use 400 watts of
regular incandescent light from sundown to bed time.
It is the easiest way to improve health.

I also apply a good amount of coconut oil all over my body before i take
a shower. It leaves a light layer of oil after the shower, does not feel sticky.
Vitamin D: I used to take 2,000-4,000 IU vitamin D daily and then switched
to applying on skin as RP does. I did not like the way it felt on skin and then
moved to sunlight for vitamin D. Then i found this pharmaceutical grade
1,000,000 to 2,000,000 IU of vitamin D ampoules. I felt great after starting
to use that monthly, it immediately warms me up and stays warm for
4-5 days. I know that daily dosing is the best, especially for anti cancer and
other cellular activities. But, for now i am settling for warmth and it's effect
on PTH and calcium. I am trying to figure out a way to make a oily solution
from this Pharmaceutical grade vitamin D ampoule so that i can take a drop
daily instead of whole ampoule every month.
Last edited by Mittir on Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby superhuman Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:08 pm

awesome Mittir
Eating every 1-2 hours, that must be a hassle tho :p
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Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:30 pm

@superhuman
That is the problem of increased metabolism.
It is mostly either drinking iced coffee or Apple juice with small piece of
farmer's cheese. I am eating like my 3 yr old nephew, he eats every

of

Previous

superhuman

2 hours and he demands food. His diet is mostly sugared milk , eggs, fruit juice
with some other type of foods.
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Unread postby superhuman Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:35 pm

Mittir wrote:@superhuman

That is the problem of increased metabolism.

It is mostly either drinking iced coffee or Apple juice with small piece of
farmer's cheese. I am eating like my 3 yr old nephew, he eats every
2 hours and he demands food. His diet is mostly sugared milk , eggs, fruit juice
with some other type of foods.

get you.
How many calories do you consume a day then?
What about eating bigger meals then so it lasts longer?
T
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Mittir
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Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:50 pm

According to cronometer, i eat at least 2500 calories from my regular foods

iced coffee, apple juice, liver, farmer's cheese, sugar/honey, coconut oil.
But, i also eat a lot of other home made foods that is difficult to calculate.
My guess is it is around 3000-3500 calories. I have big lunch.
Except for lunch, rest of the day i am drinking iced coffee or

Apple juice every hour or two according to cravings. I do not force myself to eat
something if i do not feel like eating. Recently, i am drinking a lot of iced coffee
and Apple Juice from sunset till bed time. It surprises me that i drink so much
liquid but it does not wake me up in the middle of the night to urinate.
It is a huge change for me. I think light therapy at night under 500 watt of
incandescent also helps to keep me warm and causes evaporation and that
thyroid soup really warms me up.
T
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p
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Unread postby superhuman Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:56 pm

Mittir: that is awesome.

How much salt/sodium are you getting a day?
What is your stats btw, height,weight,age etc and are you very active? 3000-3500 kcal and
maintaining or even loosing fat is awesome progress.
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Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:06 pm

I do not count added sodium. I salt to taste. I count other minerals.

Salt intake is high when i eat farmers cheese, tangy fruits and apple juice.
About stat ,all i can say is that I have lost 14 percent of my body weight so far
and losing weight was not part of my goal in peating.
I am not active at all, sedentary but i spend a good amount of
time buying foods and preparing them and minimum office work.
But, i might start doing yoga or meditation soon.

Last edited by Mittir on Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby chris Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:10 pm

mittir - I may have missed it but how come you choose apple juice over orange juice? Do
you buy expensive apple juice or cheaper varieties? Thanks.
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Unread postby Such_Saturation Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:22 pm

Wouldn't olive oil or butter with rice be better at making it

"safe"? http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/10/1/6
By the way 1200mg is sixteen espressos, so already we are going for those epic fifty
META
Orch ORRay PEATCTMU
HUMAN

The sun is rising. Hear the words of cosmic mouth anew: cogito ergo sum.
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Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:26 pm

@chris
I almost always had problem with orange juice and i think lot of
other members have same problem. I have tried in many different ways to
make it tolerable, but i did not work. Tried grape juice and did not work.
For a long time i did my peating without fruit juice. I was using coffee as a
substitute for potassium, magnesium and antioxidants in fruits.
Finally i stumbled upon commercial Apple Juice, knowing it does not have pectin.
I asked RP about it ,he gave a response that is in email advice section.
He said if orange is not sweet and ripe straining will not help.
He said apple juice is fine and his only concern was that there is
fungul content in Apple Juice due to spoiled apple they use.
I have tried 10-15 local brands and finally found two that does not
bother me. I can not mention those brands but it is not available elsewhere.
Adding baking soda makes it quite safe for me. I think high fructose content
of certain varities of apple suits me better.But Apple Juice makers do no
mention what kind of apples they are using. Gala and Fuji apples have
around 70 percent fructose.
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Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:40 pm

Such_Saturation wrote:Wouldn't olive oil or butter with rice be better at making it

"safe"? http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/10/1/6

By the way 1200mg is sixteen espressos, so already we are going for those epic fifty

Reading the abstract it seems like they are claiming fish oil is better than saturated fat
in lowering endotoxin. I only use coconut oil. Olive oil too much PUFA and i do not react
well to butter. It slows down my metabolism and gives me strange skin problem.
It is possible they used bad kind of coconut oil. Authors are from Animal science,
toxicology department and human nutrion department. I do not have good impression
about these departments. I have noticed people from nutrition tend to write terrible
papers. RP has mentioned saturated fat kills bacteria and PUFA mostly feed bad bacteria.
One explanation is that coconut oil temporarily increases endotoxin by killing bad bacteria.
About 50 cups of coffee, i remember a TV interview with late Venezuelan president
Hugo Chavez that he drank about 50 cups of coffee a day. But i think those are
tiny cups of strong coffee, not usual 6 oz or 8 oz cup. Either he had cancer from drinking
all those coffee or he was in bad health and used coffee to compensate for that.
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Unread postby Such_Saturation Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:29 pm

Mittir wrote:
Such_Saturation wrote:Wouldn't olive oil or butter with rice be better at making it

"safe"? http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/10/1/6

By the way 1200mg is sixteen espressos, so already we are going for those epic fifty

Reading the abstract it seems like they are claiming fish oil is better than saturated fat
in lowering endotoxin. I only use coconut oil. Olive oil too much PUFA and i do not react
well to butter. It slows down my metabolism and gives me strange skin problem.
It is possible they used bad kind of coconut oil. Authors are from Animal science,
toxicology department and human nutrion department. I do not have good impression
about these departments. I have noticed people from nutrition tend to write terrible
papers. RP has mentioned saturated fat kills bacteria and PUFA mostly feed bad bacteria.
One explanation is that coconut oil temporarily increases endotoxin by killing bad bacteria.

About 50 cups of coffee, i remember a TV interview with late Venezuelan president

Hugo Chavez that he drank about 50 cups of coffee a day. But i think those are
tiny cups of strong coffee, not usual 6 oz or 8 oz cup. Either he had cancer from drinking
all those coffee or he was in bad health and used coffee to compensate for that.

That is a good thought! Unfortunately when they simply say "vegetable oil" and "fish oil" it
really does not help. I think chain lengths might dissolve endotoxin better or worse,
surfactant ability might change, etc. Coconut oil is likely absorbed just outside of the
stomach as well. I've only heard Ray Peat talk about rice with butter.
META
Orch ORRay PEATCTMU
HUMAN
The sun is rising. Hear the words of cosmic mouth anew: cogito ergo sum.
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Unread postby Filip1993 Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:21 am

@Mittir How do you make your sugar syrup?

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Unread postby Mittir Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:45 am

Filip1993 wrote:@Mittir How do you make your sugar syrup?

Half cup of sugar with some water till it is little over the sugar level
and then add 1-2 tsp of lemon juice (this part is optional, but it helps
with breakdown of sugar) microwave 1 minute or more.
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Unread postby Such_Saturation Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:39 pm

Very interestind Dan, perhaps a current between the skin and the tip of the tooth should
provide the correct direction to the growth.
META
Orch ORRay PEATCTMU
HUMAN
The sun is rising. Hear the words of cosmic mouth anew: cogito ergo sum.
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Thread

Unread postby charlie Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:10 am

Dan, thank you for posting the recent teeth/gums email to the wiki.
That actually gave me an idea, I am thinking we should feed all the "Email Advice" we have
collected here on the forum, into the "Peatarian.com Email Exchanges" located at the wiki,
and just rename it "Email Exchanges" or whatever we come up with.

If anyone is up to that task, that would be surely helpful to many people.

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Unread postby superhuman Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:08 pm

awesome Mittir
Eating every 1-2 hours, that must be a hassle tho :p
T
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Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

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Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:30 pm

@superhuman
That is the problem of increased metabolism.
It is mostly either drinking iced coffee or Apple juice with small piece of
farmer's cheese. I am eating like my 3 yr old nephew, he eats every
2 hours and he demands food. His diet is mostly sugared milk , eggs, fruit juice
with some other type of foods.
T
o
p
superhuman
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Unread postby superhuman Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:35 pm

Mittir wrote:@superhuman

That is the problem of increased metabolism.

It is mostly either drinking iced coffee or Apple juice with small piece of
farmer's cheese. I am eating like my 3 yr old nephew, he eats every
2 hours and he demands food. His diet is mostly sugared milk , eggs, fruit juice
with some other type of foods.

get you.
How many calories do you consume a day then?
What about eating bigger meals then so it lasts longer?
T
o
p
Mittir
Posts: 1835
Gender:
Status: Offline

Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Discussion/Comment Thre

Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:50 pm

According to cronometer, i eat at least 2500 calories from my regular foods

iced coffee, apple juice, liver, farmer's cheese, sugar/honey, coconut oil.
But, i also eat a lot of other home made foods that is difficult to calculate.
My guess is it is around 3000-3500 calories. I have big lunch.
Except for lunch, rest of the day i am drinking iced coffee or
Apple juice every hour or two according to cravings. I do not force myself to eat
something if i do not feel like eating. Recently, i am drinking a lot of iced coffee
and Apple Juice from sunset till bed time. It surprises me that i drink so much
liquid but it does not wake me up in the middle of the night to urinate.
It is a huge change for me. I think light therapy at night under 500 watt of
incandescent also helps to keep me warm and causes evaporation and that
thyroid soup really warms me up.
T
o
p
superhuman
Posts: 349
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Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

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Unread postby superhuman Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:56 pm

Mittir: that is awesome.

How much salt/sodium are you getting a day?
What is your stats btw, height,weight,age etc and are you very active? 3000-3500 kcal and
maintaining or even loosing fat is awesome progress.
T
o
p
Mittir
Posts: 1835
Gender:
Status: Offline

Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Discussion/Comment Thre


Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:06 pm

I do not count added sodium. I salt to taste. I count other minerals.

Salt intake is high when i eat farmers cheese, tangy fruits and apple juice.
About stat ,all i can say is that I have lost 14 percent of my body weight so far
and losing weight was not part of my goal in peating.
I am not active at all, sedentary but i spend a good amount of
time buying foods and preparing them and minimum office work.
But, i might start doing yoga or meditation soon.
Last edited by Mittir on Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
T
o
p

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Posts: 442
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Unread postby chris Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:10 pm

mittir - I may have missed it but how come you choose apple juice over orange juice? Do
you buy expensive apple juice or cheaper varieties? Thanks.
T
o
p

Such_Saturation
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Unread postby Such_Saturation Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:22 pm

Wouldn't olive oil or butter with rice be better at making it

"safe"? http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/10/1/6
By the way 1200mg is sixteen espressos, so already we are going for those epic fifty
META
Orch ORRay PEATCTMU
HUMAN
The sun is rising. Hear the words of cosmic mouth anew: cogito ergo sum.
T
o
p
Mittir
Posts: 1835
Gender:
Status: Offline

Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Discussion/Comment Thre

Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:26 pm

@chris
I almost always had problem with orange juice and i think lot of
other members have same problem. I have tried in many different ways to
make it tolerable, but i did not work. Tried grape juice and did not work.
For a long time i did my peating without fruit juice. I was using coffee as a
substitute for potassium, magnesium and antioxidants in fruits.
Finally i stumbled upon commercial Apple Juice, knowing it does not have pectin.
I asked RP about it ,he gave a response that is in email advice section.
He said if orange is not sweet and ripe straining will not help.
He said apple juice is fine and his only concern was that there is
fungul content in Apple Juice due to spoiled apple they use.
I have tried 10-15 local brands and finally found two that does not
bother me. I can not mention those brands but it is not available elsewhere.
Adding baking soda makes it quite safe for me. I think high fructose content
of certain varities of apple suits me better.But Apple Juice makers do no
mention what kind of apples they are using. Gala and Fuji apples have
around 70 percent fructose.
T
o
p
Mittir
Posts: 1835

Gender:
Status: Offline

Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Discussion/Comment Thre

Unread postby Mittir Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:40 pm

Such_Saturation wrote:Wouldn't olive oil or butter with rice be better at making it

"safe"? http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/10/1/6

By the way 1200mg is sixteen espressos, so already we are going for those epic fifty

Reading the abstract it seems like they are claiming fish oil is better than saturated fat
in lowering endotoxin. I only use coconut oil. Olive oil too much PUFA and i do not react
well to butter. It slows down my metabolism and gives me strange skin problem.
It is possible they used bad kind of coconut oil. Authors are from Animal science,
toxicology department and human nutrion department. I do not have good impression
about these departments. I have noticed people from nutrition tend to write terrible
papers. RP has mentioned saturated fat kills bacteria and PUFA mostly feed bad bacteria.
One explanation is that coconut oil temporarily increases endotoxin by killing bad bacteria.
About 50 cups of coffee, i remember a TV interview with late Venezuelan president
Hugo Chavez that he drank about 50 cups of coffee a day. But i think those are
tiny cups of strong coffee, not usual 6 oz or 8 oz cup. Either he had cancer from drinking
all those coffee or he was in bad health and used coffee to compensate for that.
T
o
p

Such_Saturation
Posts: 3694
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Unread postby Such_Saturation Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:29 pm

Mittir wrote:
Such_Saturation wrote:Wouldn't olive oil or butter with rice be better at making it

"safe"? http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/10/1/6

By the way 1200mg is sixteen espressos, so already we are going for those epic fifty

Reading the abstract it seems like they are claiming fish oil is better than saturated fat
in lowering endotoxin. I only use coconut oil. Olive oil too much PUFA and i do not react
well to butter. It slows down my metabolism and gives me strange skin problem.
It is possible they used bad kind of coconut oil. Authors are from Animal science,
toxicology department and human nutrion department. I do not have good impression
about these departments. I have noticed people from nutrition tend to write terrible
papers. RP has mentioned saturated fat kills bacteria and PUFA mostly feed bad bacteria.
One explanation is that coconut oil temporarily increases endotoxin by killing bad bacteria.

About 50 cups of coffee, i remember a TV interview with late Venezuelan president

Hugo Chavez that he drank about 50 cups of coffee a day. But i think those are
tiny cups of strong coffee, not usual 6 oz or 8 oz cup. Either he had cancer from drinking
all those coffee or he was in bad health and used coffee to compensate for that.

That is a good thought! Unfortunately when they simply say "vegetable oil" and "fish oil" it
really does not help. I think chain lengths might dissolve endotoxin better or worse,
surfactant ability might change, etc. Coconut oil is likely absorbed just outside of the
stomach as well. I've only heard Ray Peat talk about rice with butter.
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Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

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Unread postby Filip1993 Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:21 am

@Mittir How do you make your sugar syrup?

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Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

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Unread postby Mittir Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:45 am

Filip1993 wrote:@Mittir How do you make your sugar syrup?

Half cup of sugar with some water till it is little over the sugar level
and then add 1-2 tsp of lemon juice (this part is optional, but it helps
with breakdown of sugar) microwave 1 minute or more.
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Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Discussion/Comment Thread

Unread postby Such_Saturation Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:39 pm

Very interestind Dan, perhaps a current between the skin and the tip of the tooth should
provide the correct direction to the growth.

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Unread postby charlie Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:10 am

Dan, thank you for posting the recent teeth/gums email to the wiki.
That actually gave me an idea, I am thinking we should feed all the "Email Advice" we have
collected here on the forum, into the "Peatarian.com Email Exchanges" located at the wiki,
and just rename it "Email Exchanges" or whatever we come up with.

If anyone is up to that task, that would be surely helpful to many people.

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Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby Such_Saturation Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:01 pm

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http://www.sugar.org/chart-is-sugar-consumption-trending-up-or-down/
Oh and by the way

87.5% increase 1970-1999

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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby YuraCZ Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:15 pm

Well it's clear enough that saturated fats and sugar isn't really problem. f***ing PUFAs...
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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby jyb Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:20 pm

Explosion of pufa oils since 2000? Seems like the party is just getting started then
That said, the study about sugar is dishonest. To get an idea of "pure carb" intake (as
opposed to nutritious carbs), they should have looked at various syrups rather than just
sucrose, as we could expect pure corn syrup or other refined products to have similar
problems (or benefits) to sucrose.
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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby Tom Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:45 pm

Interesting rise in canola oil. Do you have the figures for soybean oil? I think this accounts
still for 2/3 of the vegetable oil intake in the US. But overall it should give a very good
omega-3 to omega-6 ratio, if this is beneficial.
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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby Such_Saturation Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:29 pm

jyb wrote:Explosion of pufa oils since 2000? Seems like the party is just getting started then

That said, the study about sugar is dishonest. To get an idea of "pure carb" intake (as opposed to nutritious
carbs), they should have looked at various syrups rather than just sucrose, as we could expect pure corn
syrup or other refined products to have similar problems (or benefits) to sucrose.

Uh yeah, we are talking about the supermarket definition of sugar here

This is for almost every sweetener that has real calories in it:

As you can see, the witch hunt is pretty dumb even for nasty syrups. The same website
wrote about it here http://www.sugar.org/americans-are-cons ... weeteners/ . They only show from
the peak onwards, so clearly they are a lobby

but some poor intern probably had to

make these and they have no hope of salvaging the industry anyway...

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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby Such_Saturation Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:35 pm

Tom wrote:Interesting rise in canola oil. Do you have the figures for soybean oil? I think this accounts still

for 2/3 of the vegetable oil intake in the US. But overall it should give a very good omega-3 to omega-6
ratio, if this is beneficial.

No there aren't, I agree it should still be a big player in food manufacturing but there seems
to be a price increase.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/crops/soybeans-oil-crops/market-outlook/usda-soybean-baseline,-2010-19.aspx
wrote:In the projections, soybean production declines initially (2010/11-2011/12) and then increases

incrementally with a modest improvement in yields and planted acreage. The expected growth in U.S.
soybean supply should allow for a moderate rise in domestic use and exports. However, exporters from
South America are expected to garner most of the expansion in global trade for soybeans and soybean
products, much of which will center on meeting a rapidly rising demand in China.

They reflect the price increase but maybe it's simply more companies reporting to the
Bureau.
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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby tara Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:49 pm

Am I reading this right? 60 lbs soybean oil per capita per year? Ie ~70g per person per day?
Wow. And for all the people who eat much less than this, there must be many who eat
more. And that's just the soybean oil, not counting the canola, corn oil, etc.

"Garfield, you'll have to learn some self-control, and stop eating between meals. Do you know the meaning of self control?"
"I don't know the meaning of between meals."
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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby Such_Saturation Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:41 pm

tara wrote:Am I reading this right? 60 lbs soybean oil per capita per year? Ie ~70g per person per day?

Wow. And for all the people who eat much less than this, there must be many who eat more. And that's just
the soybean oil, not counting the canola, corn oil, etc.

I think that indicates the amount that "disappears" at the end of the year after you subtract
exports, etc.
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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby tara Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:15 pm

Such_Saturation wrote:
tara wrote:Am I reading this right? 60 lbs soybean oil per capita per year? Ie ~70g per person per day?

Wow. And for all the people who eat much less than this, there must be many who eat more. And that's just
the soybean oil, not counting the canola, corn oil, etc.

I think that indicates the amount that "disappears" at the end of the year after you subtract exports, etc.

Ok, that makes sense. So maybe more than half of it gets discarded as waste etc, and not
so much gets eaten.
"Garfield, you'll have to learn some self-control, and stop eating between meals. Do you know the meaning of self control?"
"I don't know the meaning of between meals."
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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby Such_Saturation Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:25 pm

I'm pretty sure they invented that term, all the tables are pretty odd anyway... some data
is "withheld to prevent disclosure"
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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby schultz Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:05 pm

I love graphs!!!

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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby XPlus Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:37 pm

Very interesting.
Was looking at of photos of my family, including extended family and friends, from 60s, 70s
and 80s. Wedding photos, town crowds.
Comparing these photos to how most people of similar age look now, those trends say a lot.
You bet it's not just correlation.
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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby Tom Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:35 am

Very interesting charts. But also confusing.

There is some good information on statista.com suggesting that soybean oil is still the most
widely used edible oil in the US, accounting for over 60% (4 x higher than canola oil).
http://www.statista.com/statistics/3010 ... s-by-type/
On a side note, observe the much higher life expectancy in Israel than in US despite a
higher linolic acid intake and poorer n6 to n3 ratio:

Israeli Jews eat a diet which is richer in linoleic acid (the most readily available plant-based form of omega-6
fatty acid, found in many vegetable oils), than any other population on the planet. Average per capita
consumption is approximately 30 grams a day (11 kilograms annually),[1] compared to 25 grams daily for
the average American in 1985.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_paradox
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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby jyb Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:01 am

XPlus wrote:Very interesting.

Was looking at of photos of my family, including extended family and friends, from 60s, 70s and 80s.
Wedding photos, town crowds.
Comparing these photos to how most people of similar age look now, those trends say a lot.

You bet it's not just correlation.

You only need to watch an old movie. Preferably a documentary, so the movie doesn't
introduce a bias into who is in society is filmed. Then you can only be astonished by how
good an average Joe looked back in the days compared to now.
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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby jyb Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:03 am

Tom wrote:Very interesting charts. But also confusing.

There is some good information on statista.com suggesting that soybean oil is still the most widely used
edible oil in the US, accounting for over 60% (4 x higher than canola oil).
http://www.statista.com/statistics/3010 ... s-by-type/

On a side note, observe the much higher life expectancy in Israel than in US despite a higher linolic acid
intake and poorer n6 to n3 ratio:

Israeli Jews eat a diet which is richer in linoleic acid (the most readily available plant-based form of omega-6
fatty acid, found in many vegetable oils), than any other population on the planet. Average per capita
consumption is approximately 30 grams a day (11 kilograms annually),[1] compared to 25 grams daily for
the average American in 1985.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_paradox

So much paradox. Isaerli paradox, French paradox... If the whole world is a paradox, then
its not a paradox anymore
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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby XPlus Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:32 am

jyb wrote:
XPlus wrote:Very interesting.

Was looking at of photos of my family, including extended family and friends, from 60s, 70s and 80s.
Wedding photos, town crowds.
Comparing these photos to how most people of similar age look now, those trends say a lot.

You bet it's not just correlation.

You only need to watch an old movie. Preferably a documentary, so the movie doesn't introduce a bias into
who is in society is filmed. Then you can only be astonished by how good an average Joe looked back in the
days compared to now.

Now we know what the decline of modern civilization looks like.

Carrots aren't always orange, neither primal prints is blue.
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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby Such_Saturation Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:39 pm

Tom wrote:Very interesting charts. But also confusing.

There is some good information on statista.com suggesting that soybean oil is still the most widely used
edible oil in the US, accounting for over 60% (4 x higher than canola oil).
http://www.statista.com/statistics/3010 ... s-by-type/

Sorry, I don't have the premium account, what is the source? Is there conflict with the
posted information?

Tom wrote:On a side note, observe the much higher life expectancy in Israel than in US despite a higher

linolic acid intake and poorer n6 to n3 ratio:

Israeli Jews eat a diet which is richer in linoleic acid (the most readily available plant-based form of omega-6
fatty acid, found in many vegetable oils), than any other population on the planet. Average per capita
consumption is approximately 30 grams a day (11 kilograms annually),[1] compared to 25 grams daily for
the average American in 1985.[2]

Check out:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3735464/ wrote:To address the potential for spurious

associations to arise because of the measurement of fatty acids as proportion of total weight rather than
absolute concentration (33) and to address the question of the importance of the -3/-6 ratio, long-chain 3 and -6 PUFA were included together in regression models predicting total, low-, and high-grade prostate
cancer risk. Findings for total long-chain -3 PUFA adjusted for -6 PUFA were only slightly attenuated.
The continuous multivariable-adjusted hazard ratios predicting total, low-, and high-grade prostate cancer
risk, respectively, were 1.16 (95% CI = 0.98 to 1.36), 1.15 (95% CI = 0.97 to 1.36), and 1.40 (95% CI = 1.03
to 1.92)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3735464/ wrote:Among the seven prospective studies of -6

PUFA (14,31,3539,41), two reported inverse associations for LA (35,38), and, similar to our study, all
others reported no associations.
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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby Tom Fri May 01, 2015 3:45 am

You might be able to see the charts in full if you get to the website via a google search

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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby Such_Saturation Fri May 01, 2015 9:31 am

Tom wrote:You might be able to see the charts in full if you get to the website via a google search

oils.png

Yes that is quite in line with the first charts, but no files on the USDA website seem to list
soybean oil when it comes to oil comparisons.
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Re: Sugar Consumption Down 34% Since 1970

Unread postby jyb Fri May 01, 2015 9:39 am

Tom wrote:You might be able to see the charts in full if you get to the website via a google search

I am very surprised to see coconut oil as high as this. And also higher than sunflower and
olive. I had really never heard of it before caring about diet nor saw anyone using it.
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Unread postby iLoveSugar Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:50 pm

Has anyone tried this? Any benefits? Side effects?

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Unread postby loess Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:30 am

..*`..*`..*`..*`..*`..*`..
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Unread postby ttramone Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:37 am

I use it pretty regularly as I get sick of the carrot salad. I do think it helps. When I was using
it with a bit of toothpaste, it helped to whiten my teeth.
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Unread postby charlie Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:26 am

loess wrote:Does being entertained by black boogers count as a side effect?

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Unread postby aquaman Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:53 pm

loess wrote:I just received some in the mail. The carrot is not doing me any good right now; since my

digestion is so slow it doesn't get eliminated in a timely manner, I think I am just re-absorbing the
endotoxins and estrogen and whatever else it binds.

I write about it a lot, but Cascara tea is your answer. Normally I have a BM every 2nd day,
today I had 3 in one day and feel great.
Carrot + cascara = winner.
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Re: Activated Charcoal

Unread postby iLoveSugar Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:41 pm

I have been using cascara and the carrot salad daily for a year now. No cigar for me.
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Re: Activated Charcoal

Unread postby iLoveSugar Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:43 am

No one else? Darn ...

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Re: Activated Charcoal

Unread postby loess Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:35 pm

I did 1.5 tbsp of charcoal and 1.5 tbsp of cascara yesterday at 12:30pm. Usually I know the
carrot is working because it tends to clear up anxiety for me almost immediately, like
within an hour of eating it. I'm guessing that's because it is binding up or reducing endotoxin
and serotonin. The charcoal gave me that same good feeling, but no bowel movement yet,
still playing the waiting game after almost 24 hours. I drank more cascara tea this morning
so we'll see what happens. Doesn't seem to make a difference whether I ingest the powder
itself or just the hot water steeped in the powder. Maybe I just need to significantly up the
dose. I didn't feel like eating anything yesterday so I've really gotta take in some
sugar+protein+fat today...if the charcoal is gonna bind or destroy those nutrients before it
comes out, oh well.
I don't think my gastroparesis and sluggish digestion is going to clear up without the help of
thyroid so I am probably going to start on some NDT soon. Maybe get some blood tests first
to see where my T3 and T4 are at.
..*`..*`..*`..*`..*`..*`..
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Re: Activated Charcoal

Unread postby iLoveSugar Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:19 pm

loess wrote:I did 1.5 tbsp of charcoal and 1.5 tbsp of cascara yesterday at 12:30pm. Usually I know the carrot

is working because it tends to clear up anxiety for me almost immediately, like within an hour of eating it.
I'm guessing that's because it is binding up or reducing endotoxin and serotonin. The charcoal gave me that
same good feeling, but no bowel movement yet, still playing the waiting game after almost 24 hours. I drank
more cascara tea this morning so we'll see what happens. Doesn't seem to make a difference whether I ingest
the powder itself or just the hot water steeped in the powder. Maybe I just need to significantly up the dose. I
didn't feel like eating anything yesterday so I've really gotta take in some sugar+protein+fat today...if the
charcoal is gonna bind or destroy those nutrients before it comes out, oh well.

I don't think my gastroparesis and sluggish digestion is going to clear up without the help of thyroid so I am
probably going to start on some NDT soon. Maybe get some blood tests first to see where my T3 and T4 are
at.

I wish thyroid helped me go...

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Re: Activated Charcoal

Unread postby charlie Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:28 pm

Cascara + carrot salad and alternating the salad with charcoal every 3 or 4 days =
endotoxin/estrogen death blow. A truly wonderful experience all around.
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Re: Activated Charcoal

Unread postby jyb Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:47 pm

Charlie wrote:Cascara + carrot salad and alternating the salad with charcoal every 3 or 4 days =

endotoxin/estrogen death blow. A truly wonderful experience all around.

Is charcoal useful when already doing cascara + carrot daily?

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Re: Activated Charcoal

Unread postby charlie Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:24 pm

jyb wrote:
Charlie wrote:Cascara + carrot salad and alternating the salad with charcoal every 3 or 4 days =

endotoxin/estrogen death blow. A truly wonderful experience all around.

Is charcoal useful when already doing cascara + carrot daily?

I do not do(carrot/charcoal) them both in the same day. One or the other. Some days I
want to skip the carrot salad so then I will swig some charcoal.
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Re: Activated Charcoal

Unread postby iLoveSugar Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:37 pm

Is charcoal likely more effective than the carrot salad?

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Re: Activated Charcoal

Unread postby jyb Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:57 pm

Isn't there a RP quote about the impurities in those commercial charcoal supplements? In
theory it does seem useful, I remember some Russian study on rat I think where it increased
lifespan, but if there are concerns about impurities, why not just carrot (and cascara if you
have transit problem)?
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Re: Activated Charcoal

Unread postby charlie Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:54 pm

iLoveSugar wrote:Is charcoal likely more effective than the carrot salad?

The way I see it charcoal has "soaking up" properties. Carrot has "soaking up" and also
antibacterial/antimicrobial properties.

jyb wrote:Isn't there a RP quote about the impurities in those commercial charcoal supplements?

I think this comes down to finding a good source just like with anything else.

In theory it does seem useful, I remember some Russian study on rat I think where it increased lifespan, but
if there are concerns about impurities, why not just carrot (and cascara if you have transit problem)?

I agree carrot seems the better option and that's why I use it for the brunt of my "protocol"
as opposed to charcoal.
On another note. I mentioned a while back that I seemed to need to have some sugar near
the carrot salad. Or definitely, soon after the carrot salad. And I speculated that is was due
to liver, or something to that effect but I wasn't quite clear on what was going on. Someone
chimed in and said well wouldn't the carrot salad take a load off the liver and I agreed with
what the person said and had nothing else to add. Well today it hit me, about 1.5 hours
after eating a pretty big carrot salad I could feel that feeling of my liver asking for fuel.
And then I finally got it, the carrot salad immediately effects respiration, it soaks up the
endotoxin, and estrogen, and whatever, so then your body responds with a much higher
respiration rate due to the burden being taken off your liver, increasing metabolism, and
therefor burning up your liver fuel storage at an accelerated rate, hence why I feel a
sudden urge for sugar/fuel not too long after a carrot salad.

Last edited by charlie on Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: To add: due to the burden being taken off your liver
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Re: Activated Charcoal

Unread postby loess Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:57 pm

Charlie, I read your post a couple of days ago in the other thread that you mentioned, and
what you say here makes a lot of sense! It's fun to observe this stuff and ponder all of the
cool pathways and chain reactions going on.
The cascara finally kicked in this afternoon, boy do I feel better. I think in the end I just
need to be more patient with it. It seems that anything I ingest just takes longer than
"normal" (whatever that means) to make it's way through.
..*`..*`..*`..*`..*`..*`..
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Re: Activated Charcoal

Unread postby charlie Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:17 pm

loess wrote:It's fun to observe this stuff and ponder all of the cool pathways and chain reactions going on.

It truly is.

The cascara finally kicked in this afternoon, boy do I feel better. I think in the end I just need to be more
patient with it. It seems that anything I ingest just takes longer than "normal" (whatever that means) to make
it's way through.

Being able to evacuate the bowels effectively makes a massive difference on how I feel. It's
quite incredible and I think this is another huge piece of the puzzle that should not be
overlooked. If I need to take cascara for a while until I can get to that place where I wont
need it, so be it. Because I am going to be so much better off metabolically during the
times of taking that cascara when I needed it, then not taking it and trying to "tough it
out". Taking it when you need it should actually help you get to the place much faster of
not needing it.
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Re: Activated Charcoal

Unread postby iLoveSugar Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:45 pm

Charlie wrote:Being able to evacuate the bowels effectively makes a massive difference on how I feel. It's

quite incredible and I think this is another huge piece of the puzzle that should not be overlooked. If I need to
take cascara for a while until I can get to that place where I wont need it, so be it. Because I am going to be
so much better off metabolically during the times of taking that cascara when I needed it, then not taking it
and trying to "tough it out". Taking it when you need it should actually help you get to the place much faster
of not needing it.

Agree 110%. It is the single most important thing to me. When I can't go effectively and
completely, my life becomes living hell. This is true for almost very day. I have to find a
way to effectively go completely, daily. Carrot salad and cascara does squat for me. I feel
incredibly toxic and my digestion is all but nothing...
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Re: Activated Charcoal

Unread postby HDD Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:16 pm

"The contractile ability of smooth muscle, thats impaired by swelling and inflammation,
can be restored by antiinflammatory agents, for example aspirin (or other inhibitor of
prostaglandin synthesis) or antihistamines. This applies to the muscles of lymphatic vessels
(Wu, et al., 2005, 2006; Gosling, 2000), that must function to reduce edema, as well as to
the bowel muscles that cause peristalsis."
Maybe antihistamine or aspirin might help.
"When x-rays or MRIs show plaques in the head, multiple sclerosis is often confirmed, but when normal medical
students show just as many brain plaques, the diagnosis must be questioned" - RP
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Re: Activated Charcoal

Unread postby loess Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:26 am

After today I am feeling much more confident about cascara. I am right there with you
Charlie on the happy bowels = happy days. Definitely grateful to have the cascara as a
gentle and safe tool to support the whole metabolic picture.
iLoveSugar, have you experimented with transdermal magnesium oil or taking magnesium
supplements? I know there are a billion things to consider with the digestion, but I do
notice that if I keep up with the magnesium it makes a difference with the constipation and

with sleep.
Give the charcoal a try. I was a little concerned that it would get clump up and get stuck
but the cascara eventually moved it through. How much cascara are you taking when it
doesn't work for you? Maybe increase dose and/or drink it a couple of times in a day? Also
just to be sure, is your cascara aged properly (at least one year)?
..*`..*`..*`..*`..*`..*`..
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Activated Charcoal Powder: Suggested use

Unread postby John Eels Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:32 pm

Yesterday my package with the Activated Charcoal Powder arrived

(http://www.amazon.com/Activated-Charcoal-Powder-16ozPound/dp/B0026XWKKM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1358353758&sr=83&keywords=activated+charcoal). I'm eager to try it. Has anyone experimented with it in
order to reduce bacterial overgrowth? Any advice on how to use the powder?
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Unread postby BingDing Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:53 pm

John, Peatarian described quite a bit about it, I'm not sure how to search for her posts. IIRC
she said three tablespoons in water and just drink it, every three days. I got mine last week
and started with one tbsp, then two. (Didn't want to pull a Charlie and overdo it right
away, LOL) It's astonishingly messy, I'm going to take it outdoors to mix it next time. A
small side benefit is it's easy to estimate your intestinal transit time if you note when you
drink it.
There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
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Re: Activated Charcoal Powder: Suggested use

Unread postby charlie Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:48 am

BingDing wrote:(Didn't want to pull a Charlie and overdo it right away, LOL)

Yeh, let me make all the mistakes so you dont have to!
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Re: Activated Charcoal Powder: Suggested use

Unread postby John Eels Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:08 pm

John, Peatarian described quite a bit about it, I'm not sure how to search for her posts. IIRC she said three
tablespoons in water and just drink it, every three days. I got mine last week and started with one tbsp, then
two. (Didn't want to pull a Charlie and overdo it right away, LOL) It's astonishingly messy, I'm going to take
it outdoors to mix it next time. A small side benefit is it's easy to estimate your intestinal transit time if you
note when you drink it.

Pull a charlie
Thanks for the advice BingDing. I drink my charcoal drink tonight. Why do you do it every
three days? Can't you do it every day?
I had capsules before but they didn't really make any difference other than turn my
excrements black. Have you experienced any benefit from the charcoal?
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Re: Activated Charcoal Powder: Suggested use

Unread postby charlie Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:15 pm

John Eels wrote:Pull a charlie

I see it's pick on Charlie day today.

Thanks for the advice BingDing. I drink my charcoal drink tonight. Why do you do it every three days?
Can't you do it every day?

I had capsules before but they didn't really make any difference other than turn my excrements black. Have
you experienced any benefit from the charcoal?

Charcoal can also soak up nutrients at the same time, like carrot salad.
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Re: Activated Charcoal Powder: Suggested use

Unread postby BingDing Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:00 pm

Charlie wrote:Yeh, let me make all the mistakes so you dont have to!

I just couldn't resist, man. I figured you'd be a good sport.

John, this is one post, and another, and this. Might have to backtrack to get the context.
After the first time the BM was fairly foul smelling compared to normal, which I took to be
a good thing. Not so much after the second. I've had a couple really good days lately but it's
hard to pin it on the charcoal. Overall I have to call it positive. As Charlie noted it does
take up nutrients, too.
There ain't no rule if you don't break it, there ain't no chance if you don't take it- Guy Clark, Picasso's
Mandolin
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Re: Activated Charcoal Powder: Suggested use

Unread postby John Eels Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:28 pm

Last Thursday evening I had my first chug of activated charcoal dissolved in water. The
following day 14 hours later at noon I had a bowel movement. The bowels were rendered
black. If I felt better? Hard to tell. I rather felt a little worse. I woke up in the night and
felt agitated. I had hard time to fall back asleep. Was the charcoal working on some
digestive issues that I have?
I am hesitant to try it again soon.
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Re: Activated Charcoal Powder: Suggested use

Unread postby Birdie Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:32 pm

You won't necessarily feel better right away. I'd say try a dose of one half the dose you
used. And wait 3 days after that first dose. How much was your dose? Did you say?
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Re: Activated Charcoal Powder: Suggested use

Unread postby John Eels Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:29 pm

I took two tablespoons. I'll try another dose tonight. It will be one tablespoon. Why is it
relevant to wait three days? Is it about the nutrients that charcoal might soak up us well?

I'll report my experience.

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Re: Activated Charcoal Powder: Suggested use

Unread postby Birdie Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:56 pm

John Eels wrote:I took two tablespoons. I'll try another dose tonight. It will be one tablespoon. Why is it

relevant to wait three days? Is it about the nutrients that charcoal might soak up us well?

I'll report my experience.

Yes.
I think Peatarian got that spacing of doses 3 days apart from Peat.
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Unread postby John Eels Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:33 pm

Imagine, I eat all this nutritious food and end up malnourished only b/c I used charcoal in
excess. That's black.
Thanks for the response.
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Activated Charcoal Supplementation - Brand?

Unread postby jaywills Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:14 pm

Hi all sorry if this has been covered. What brand of activated charcoal does everybody use?
I want to buy a pure bulk powder but here in the uk this is proving a little difficult. I am
currently using swansons tablets but am having to take 8 pills plus to get to the higher
dosages plus this is quite costly.
Can the activated carbon sold as a fish pond product be used?
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Unread postby loess Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:56 pm

Not sure if it's available in the UK, but this is what I use and have had good results with:
http://www.multavita.com/1-lb-Hardwood- ... _p_67.html
I would think that in some cases, buying activated charcoal marketed for aquarium use
might be analogous to buying pure aspirin powder marketed for veterinary use. In other
words: same product, different packaging, and possibly less of a price markup. That being
said, if I was going this route, I would do everything I could to first confirm that the
particles are extremely finely and uniformly ground and that the charcoal is processed in a
clean way that is safe for human consumption.
..*`..*`..*`..*`..*`..*`..
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Re: Activated Charcoal Supplementation - Brand?

Unread postby tara Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:57 pm

I use bulk AC powder from Charcoal House. I am not in UK, but it imported to me fine.
Postage was high, but if you get a reasonable amount it's not so bad. I can't judge quality,
but I am not aware of any particular problems with it. They have more than one kind
intended for human consumption.
Unlike loess, I would have thought there would be greater danger of persorption (though
also greater beneficial adsorption) with smaller particle size than with larger.
"Garfield, you'll have to learn some self-control, and stop eating between meals. Do you know the meaning of self control?"
"I don't know the meaning of between meals."
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Unread postby jyb Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:22 pm

I'm still looking for a good one before buying a bulk powder. Seems like Bragg's is one of the
finest and medical grade, but apparently they don't sell powder to individuals. They do sell
capsules so you could empty them to get pure powder, but that may not be economical
unless you're just looking for occasional use.
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Re: Activated Charcoal Supplementation - Brand?

Unread postby Mastemah Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:52 am

Activated Charcaol:
http://www.bulkherbstore.com/Activated- ... s=charcoal
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How to make your own activated charcoal

Unread postby fyo Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:06 am

To make charcoal:
Use organic (carbon-rich) matter, such as wood (untreated), coconut husk, or bone.
Place the stuff in an environment of high heat and low oxygen, but with some capacity for
the container to release gasses, so as to avoid an explosion.
For example, inside a loose tin container, or wraped in aluminium foil with some holes in it.
Place those inside of a hot grill, or a hot smoker. I think inside a normal hot fire (or an
underground fire pit/dakota fire pit) might also work, but I'm not sure.
The DIY "Everything nice stove" also seems to work. There are various other 'charcoal
retorts' or 'biochar retorts' or 'top loading up draft retort' or 'rocket stoves' posted online,
that can get very hot.
A handheld torch an adequate container could also work.
Hours later, the charcoal is done when smokey gas stops coming out from the container.
The charcoal should be light, easy to break, and relatively tasteless. See youtube for
examples if you want.
To 'activate' the charcoal:

50% NaCl (salt) solution. Crumble and soak in 500 gram (1.1 lb) salt per 1 liter (4.2 cup)
water, for 24 hours.
Strain, rinse, dry in 100c oven/sun.
or 5.85 grams salt per 1 gram charcoal
As derived from these experiments:
http://library.queensu.ca/ojs/index.php ... /4244/4344
http://www.ajol.info/index.php/bcse/art ... 7872/68278
http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?pid=S07 ... ci_arttext
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Re: How to make your own activated charcoal

Unread postby fyo Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:41 am

Should be:
"Charcoal is done when smoke or ignited gas (appearing as a flame jetting up/out) has
ceased"
If the charcoal is too hard, i.e. not brittle, then it needs be cooked longer or hotter.
The simplest way is just get a tin can, stuff it with some sticks, cover it with aluminium foil
and a small hole, and throw it in a hot fire like on a grill. Its done some hours later when
nothing more is coming out the can.
I want to say the salted charcoal is actually very enjoyable and tastes much like salty
pretzels. They satisfy that taste, for me.

A lot of people report craving a general crunchy taste, like crisp pretzels or chips. When I
was anemic (with endotoxin problems too), I also had this, in craving to chew ice
(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pica_%28disorder%29 ).
I've wondered, what is the purpose of this craving? In an evolutionary context, what is
crunchy? All I can think of is either bones possibly, maybe eggshell, or else charcoal. I find

charcoal the most satisfying of those 3. Interestingly enough, some animals do seek out and
eat charcoal:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFzVdfozISo , etc.
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Re: How to make your own activated charcoal

Unread postby ravster02 Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:03 am

It's nice of you to put effort into this but are you really advocating making your own
activated charcoal?
I mean, really?

Last edited by ravster02 on Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to make your own activated charcoal

Unread postby SQu Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:06 am

Very cool!
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Re: How to make your own activated charcoal

Unread postby sm1693 Mon May 11, 2015 10:41 pm

fyo wrote:How to make your own activated charcoal

Would you be so kind as to state whether there are differences in your intestinal health
after consuming this homemade charcoal VS regular powdered charcoal? Less intestinal
inflammation? Less slowing of peristalsis?
Specifically, do you think the issue of persorption is avoided by using homemade charcoal?
Many thanks
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Re: How to make your own activated charcoal

Unread postby fyo Fri May 22, 2015 5:37 pm

sm1693 wrote:
fyo wrote:How to make your own activated charcoal

Would you be so kind as to state whether there are differences in your intestinal health after consuming this
homemade charcoal VS regular powdered charcoal? Less intestinal inflammation? Less slowing of
peristalsis?

Specifically, do you think the issue of persorption is avoided by using homemade charcoal?

Many thanks

I haven't tried other charcoal's beside what I made. Mostly because Ray warned against

production contaminants, so I figured not to bother.

If I take a lot, like maybe 5 tbsp, I'll get a bit constipated.
When I first started taking it, sticky looking things that I imagine to be biofilm were coming
out my stools. That stopped after about a week or two.
If I slack on bowel-aides (for example I also take bamboo shoots and sometimes ray's carrot
salad recipe), and then take charcoal, like a day or two later I will feel brief pain in my
gut, as if bacteria were being ripped off my intestine, so I imagine. After continued usage
though, this pain goes away.
Generally bowel health (and thyroid) have been the most important factors for my overall
wellbeing. Eating an inflammatory food (even berries with seeds can hurt) can seriously
dampen my mood.
I'll also add that eating protein at lunch, ~4 hours later, turned out to be a constant gut
stressor for me. The sulphur in meat can serve as nasty bacterial food. Gelatin helps in the
sulphur transport process; not enough gelatine/glycine and the sulphur may be
malabsorbed. A person with intestinal damage/inflammation is also going to be in need of
extra gelatin for repair of gut tissue specifically.
Fasting after lunch for a bit also helps. Drinking fatty milk too soon contributes to the
stress. I suppose this is 'persorption'.
I don't know if persorption is 'avoided' by charcoal. Either way charcoal helps a lot, for
absorbing up all the bowel toxins, bacteria/biofilms themselves, and so on.
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Re: How to make your own activated charcoal

Unread postby jyb Fri May 22, 2015 6:54 pm

fyo wrote:Fasting after lunch for a bit also helps. Drinking fatty milk too soon contributes to the stress. I

suppose this is 'persorption'.

I don't know if persorption is 'avoided' by charcoal. Either way charcoal helps a lot, for absorbing up all the
bowel toxins, bacteria/biofilms themselves, and so on.

Persoption could happen with charcoal not milk. I think that's why Peat advises regular
carrot rather that charcoal. It is probably up to debate what is the risk, but charcoal is fine
particles so it has the potential to go through as a study showed a case of that.
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Re: How to make your own activated charcoal

Unread postby fyo Sat May 23, 2015 6:15 pm

My charcoal is not that fine, I just crumble it up some.

I don't know for sure but I don't imagine charcoal is that dangerous. It is sometimes put on
open wounds to promote healing. Therefore I imagine its not that
bad. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20505594
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Activated Charcoal caps

Unread postby Makrosky Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:21 pm

Hey guys,
Has anyone used activated charcoal caps? It's the only charcoal I can get and I want to give

it a try.
The labels says taking two caps but that is only 560mg. I know people in this forum uses it
by the spoonfull.
Should the dose be different with caps than with powder? Isn't 560mg a very small dose? Is
there any difference between the caps and the powder?
Any help will be welcome.
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Re: Activated Charcoal caps

Unread postby Blossom Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:39 pm

I've used County Life brand and seemed to tolerate it well. If you look on Dan's
site http://www.toxinless.com you should be able find some information about other/different
sources. Usually the powder is more economical but in a pinch I've used the capsules just
because I could buy it locally. I did use more than the instructions on the bottle
recommended tho.
Medical science is making such remarkable progress that soon none of us will be well. Aldous Huxley
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Re: Activated Charcoal caps


Unread postby Makrosky Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:48 pm

Blossom wrote:I've used County Life brand and seemed to tolerate it well. If you look on Dan's

site http://www.toxinless.com you should be able find some information about other/different sources.
Usually the powder is more economical but in a pinch I've used the capsules just because I could buy it
locally. I did use more than the instructions on the bottle recommended tho.

I have the best one according to toxinless.com... wow!

How many caps did you take ?
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Re: Activated Charcoal caps

Unread postby charlie Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:00 pm

Makrosky wrote:I have the best one according to toxinless.com... wow!

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Re: Activated Charcoal caps

Unread postby Blossom Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:29 pm

I very roughly estimated that 10 capsules would be about 1 teaspoon (or around 5 grams) so
I went with that amount. 10 x 540 mg = 5.4 grams and that's about a teaspoon. I know some
people take more and some less.
Medical science is making such remarkable progress that soon none of us will be well. Aldous Huxley
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Re: Activated Charcoal caps

Unread postby Greg says Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:33 pm

I take half the bottle before bed every once in a while with 4 cascara tablets.
www.naturerulesok.com
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Re: Activated Charcoal caps

Unread postby Blossom Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:54 pm

Greg says wrote:I take half the bottle before bed every once in a while with 4 cascara tablets.

Amazing!
Medical science is making such remarkable progress that soon none of us will be well. Aldous Huxley
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Re: Activated Charcoal caps

Unread postby haidut Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:21 pm

Blossom wrote:I very roughly estimated that 10 capsules would be about 1 teaspoon (or around 5 grams) so I

went with that amount. 10 x 540 mg = 5.4 grams and that's about a teaspoon. I know some people take more
and some less.

Taking 14 of the capsules equals exactly 1 tbsp. I guess we can round it off to 15 to make it
easier to remember. I can't find the exact reference right now but it was in a study, so the
capsules to tbsp conversion should be legit.
Custom, hand-made dietary supplements: http://www.idealabsdc.com
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Re: Activated Charcoal caps

Unread postby Blossom Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:04 pm

haidut wrote:
Blossom wrote:I very roughly estimated that 10 capsules would be about 1 teaspoon (or around 5 grams) so I

went with that amount. 10 x 540 mg = 5.4 grams and that's about a teaspoon. I know some people take more
and some less.

Taking 14 of the capsules equals exactly 1 tbsp. I guess we can round it off to 15 to make it easier to

remember. I can't find the exact reference right now but it was in a study, so the capsules to tbsp conversion
should be legit.

Yeah I was talking TEASPOONS so by my figures it would be closer to 28 capsules to equal a

TABLESPOON.
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Re: Activated Charcoal caps

Unread postby Makrosky Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 am

Thank you all guys you're a bless.

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Re: Activated Charcoal caps

Unread postby jyb Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:02 am

Greg says wrote:I take half the bottle before bed every once in a while with 4 cascara tablets.

The charcoal binds polyphenol so it will bind the emodin in cascara if you take those at the
same time. Hence, you might be missing out on the emodin, which is supposed to be main
chemical of interest in cascara according to Ray's article.
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Re: Activated Charcoal caps

Unread postby Greg says Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:46 am

No, the cascara is definitely working. ; )

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Activated Charcoal now available!

Unread postby healthnatura Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:50 am

The granular activated charcoal is now available! The specifications are the same as
described in the poll listing page. Here is another copy. Let me know how you like it!

http://www.healthnatura.com/activated-c ... oal1lb.htm

Granular Pharmaceutical Grade Activated Charcoal - provides 1200 square meters of
surface area per gram.
Acid-washed granular activated carbon charcoal made from coconut shell by a high
temperature activation process under stringent quality control. Acid and water soluble ash
constituents have been greatly reduced by the washing process. It has a large surface area,
excellent attrition resistance, large pore volume, and chemical stability. This product is
NSF certified and meets or exceeds all food chemical codex, AWWA, ASTM Protocols.
SPECIFICATIONS - 1scoop (1 tsp) yields 2.4g
US Standard Sieve Mesh Size: 12X30
Greater than 12 4% maximum. Less than 30 4% maximum
Total Surface Area - minimum 1200 m2/g
Iodine Number (mg/g) 1100 minimum (absorption capacity)
Hardness number 98 minimum
Moisture 5% maximum as packed
Apparent Density (g/cc) 0.51 typical
Back Washed & Drained Density (lbs/ft3) 28-28.5 typical
Water Soluble Ash Less than 0.5%
pH 5-8
All test methods are per ASTM protocol for granular activated charcoal. This information
has been gathered from supplier data that is assumed to be accurate and reliable. Heath
Natura, llc only warrants that this product will meet the above described specifications and
makes no other warranties of any kind either expressed or implied including but not limited
to fitness for a particular purpose or application. Buyer assumes all liability and risk that
may arise from the use of this product.
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Typo's, spelling and grammatical errors are for entertainment purposes only. Find something to make you laugh every
day. Your body is the expert, a good healer learns to listen to its many languages. HealthNatura.com
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Unread postby jag2594 Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:37 am

Just put in an order, thanks again !

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Unread postby charlie Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:01 am

Nice!
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Unread postby sm1693 Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:54 pm

Nice. I have been using 20x50 mesh charcoal for many months now. It has performed
flawlessly.
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