MILES

DAVIS:
CONVERSATION
FROM JAZZIZ JAN/FEB 1985

B Y E R I C S N I D E R
M
iles and I made a deal. In the Did Columbia want you to do it? Did you decide to do
music press, his career has it? Did you like doing it?
been analyzed, scrutinized, Yeah, it was OK. It takes a long time. You can spend
chronologized and categorized your whole day on things like that. You have to get
over the years, and he thinks everything together.
most of it is “bullshit” anyway.
Frankly, I was getting a little I saw it on HBO and they introduced it as a “jazz video.”
tired of reading it. There had When you say “jazz,” it always limits a musician.
to be more to Miles Davis I was talking to my drummer [Al Foster] about that
than musician/bandleader/trendsetter/mysterious last night. I don’t like the word, ya know, because it’s
intimidator. He’s a man after all, and he puts his really a disgrace to be labeled a jazz musician because
pants on just like you and me — though his pants they don’t do anything. Everybody can see that they
are probably more stylish.So even though it wasn’t don’t do anything — that they’re just comfortable
a condition for doing the interview, we struck a playing the same old thing. You have to match these
gentleman’s deal that he could speak freely, and I different synthesized sounds. You can’t just play these
would render our conversation as it happened. clichés that even the commercials don’t use anymore.
The original plan to do a post-show, face-to-face That label, “jazz,” takes the “why” and the “what” out
interview never materialized. Instead, I was given a of the music. They don’t try anything new because it’s
phone number to call the next morning. One, two, three, labeled. “Well, what do you do?” (Apathetic voice) “I’m
four, five rings before he picked up and croaked a barely a jazz musician.” What the fuck is that?
audible, “Yeah.” We started out a little slow — as any
two strangers are bound to do. But soon enough I made I think there’s a problem with the word because
a discovery, which will be the only analytical point I people want to call so many types of music “jazz”
make in this introduction. Miles Davis is a pretty nice that it doesn’t really mean anything anymore.
guy. He’s not Mr. Warmth, but he’s witty — often funny There’s a lot of confusion.
— opinionated and open. Our interview gradually There’s no confusion. If [music critics] can put
became a conversation, and our discussion covered their finger on “jazz,” it’s, “Well, we don’t like jazz.” It’s
more than music. [Publisher’s note: The interview the same thing with rock and roll. What the fuck is
below has been edited for length and clarity.] rock and roll? I hate those terminologies, man, because
I’m tired of seeing my people fucked with in all areas.
Eric Snider: The tone on your horn sounds so good now,
so improved. How did you get it back? What’s the remedy for it then? If someone wants to
Miles Davis: Practice every day. And play a lot of talk about a record to their friend, or someone wants to
long notes. Go swimming every day. It was hard. write about it and describe it, what’s the alternative?
I don’t know.
When did you feel it really came around?
After I had the operation. Last year. When did I I understand you’ve been using the term “social music.”
have the operation? I don’t remember. You know that’s what it is. If you look at it like you
do dances or something. Those are just social things
How did you come to add “Time After Time” to the live that people just do. I don’t know what you could call it.
repertoire? Why that particular song?
If you followed my musical career, I usually always In this particular time when a lot of people want to make
played ballads that I like. It’s not a big thing. I hear it skin color less of an issue, it still is very much a topic for
the way I hear all ballads — on the radio, on television. you. Why do you feel it’s necessary to keep it up?
I heard this on a video. I see Sidney Poitier and [my wife] Cicely [Tyson] —
they don’t have any projects. The only movie [with a
How did the video for “Decoy” come together? black male lead] this year is A Soldier’s Story. It makes
What do you mean how did it come together? me speak up because I know how that business works.
… There’s something that gets to me when I see my a couple of lessons or something. I mean there’s always
wife look at 50 different scripts, and there’s nothing something to learn which makes it very interesting.
there. We should find some black writers — although These new sounds that are comin’ out are great. You
I told somebody the other day that I’ve never been on have to realize that you are a musician and that is your
a black magazine cover. In Japan, I’m on the cover. In thing. Appreciate things that you have to look into.
Europe, I’m on the cover of Vogue. But not over here.
It seems that you like to play live, versus the studio.
You’ve been on several music magazine covers. That’s right, there’s no spontaneity in the studio.
Not any black magazines. … I can walk down the Musicians tighten up; they have to go pee. Or they
street in Paris, and they say, “Hey, Miles,” ’cause I’m step out and get high. They don’t do that shit on stage.
on their TV. Every time I go there and play, they film
it and show the people in Europe. The government Why do you make studio records; why not make all
does. Here, I’ve been on a couple of these shows with live records?
Bryant Gumble [the Today Show], and then some The record company says they want quality. So
people start seeing me on the street, and they say, people can turn up the bass or turn the trumpet up.
“Hey, Miles” in this country. But I’m 58 years old, and Things like that.
I’m better known in Europe. It’s either that or here
they know me because Cicely married me. If you were to tell CBS that you wanted to do another
live album, that this is the way you preferred to do it …
That can be a problem when you’ve got a famous wife. (Interrupting) That’s not the way I would tell ‘em.
Half the motherfuckers, when they come to
interview me, they say, “Where is she? Maybe we can What would you say to them?
get her in on this.” I ain’t shit. I don’t tell ‘em, I just do it. I’d say, “Have your
equipment ready in such and such a place,” and they
To change the subject drastically, I noticed Teo [Macero] do it. They respect my judgement. I don’t go up and
is not credited with producing Decoy. Why did you ask anybody about my music. I know how the shit’s
decide to do it on your own? supposed to go.
Because he’s like an old maid, man. I could have let
Teo go years ago, but kept him around for a while. He Do you spend much time with individual members of
doesn’t do anything so there’s no reason to carry him. your band — telling them what you’d like from them?
He never did anything. I give ‘em little hints. Sometimes they’ll say,
“Miles, I’m gonna put this right here,” and sometimes
I understand he likes to do a lot of splicing and editing. I’ll tell ’em what to do. But see, it’s my band.
Teo does lazy shit, man. I hate a lazy man. I can’t
stand that. I kept telling him to do something and They would do well to listen to you. But they have to
it’s, “Oh, no, we got a deadline.” “I don’t feel good. I be able to express themselves. Al Foster seems to be
gotta go to the doctor.” “My wife this and my wife the backbone of that group.
that.” People eliminate themselves, you know what I keep tellin’ him that, man. He’s incredible, the
I’m saying? I don’t say “Teo, you’re fired,” or “I don’t way he plays. I’ll just sit there [on stage] and listen to
wanna work with you no more.” He eliminated him sometimes. He don’t wanna play solos ’cause he
himself by being so slow and backwards. said I’ve heard everything. I said, “I haven’t heard you,
man.” He’s fabulous. He’s a helluva composer, too.
I get the idea that you don’t listen to a lot of current
acoustic “jazz” — for lack of a better word — but do
you ever go back and listen to the classic jazz stuff?
No, man. I don’t listen to any instrumentalists,
’cause they don’t do anything. I mean all you have to do
is get a synthesizer, read the fuckin’ manual, maybe take
With your keyboard rack back there [located in front But if you liked the project you wouldn’t rule it out.
of the drums], do you feel more a part of the group I would want to do it, but the money business — I
if you are involved in the rhythm section as well as don’t want to talk about money. Mick Jagger wanted
being a soloist? me to make a session, and when my money people
Right. We always leave a little mystique in the told him what was happenin’, he went and ([chuckles]
composition to explore and make different sounds. told us, “Well I only gave Sonny Rollins this amount
Different sounds come in your head and you have of money.” And then … uh … anyway. But then they
to have the reflex and the knowledge to be able called back and now they want me to do something.
to do ’em. If you hear these ideas, it’s gonna help
what’s happenin’. You have to do it on the spur of A year ago, there probably would have been no way
the moment. that I would have gotten this time with you. Why have
you loosened up some?
By having keyboards available, you can add more to Partly because my health has improved. But also
the music. people usually say things that I don’t think about.
Yeah. Because music changes when you have Like turning my back on the audience. Fuck that. How
bad weather. Or if it’s too hot. Or if it’s Thursday. It many times can you say, “I’m not doing this for money”
changes. If you have a three-fourths black audience, and “These 40 chicks are waitin’ on me outside.” You
it changes. If you have a lot of “let’s-get-a-cold-one” know what bullshit they write about musicians.
white kids, it changes. It changes from the vibes they If I go into a club now, all the musicians —
send out. drummers drop sticks and all that shit. I don’t go
My love for ballads always carries me anywhere, out anymore. Or if I go out I don’t let anybody know
because you can tell when a person is playing from I’m there.
what he feels or if he’s playing from an image he
wants to project. Like I go to these things with Cicely There’s this perception that you try to — for fun or
and sometimes they have singers — like Florence because you’re bitter or something — that you try and
Henderson. And they sing these songs that they can’t intimidate people you talk to in the press.
sing, ’cause it’s an image they want to project. That’s the white press’ interpretation.

Who are some people that you really You haven’t been all that scary to me. But I can see
think make it as singers? your point about drummers dropping sticks and stuff.
Oh, Jeffrey Osborne. Luther Vandross. Of course They do it to themselves.
Michael [Jackson]. James Brown, Rick Springfield. All A lot of it comes from being ignored years ago
these guys that sing what they can sing and project. — when I was with Charlie Parker. The way they
Like Stevie [Wonder], Earth Wind, and Fire. Jennifer ignored him, man. I just figured there’s nothing to say.
Holliday. Joyce Kennedy, Melba Moore, Chaka Khan. People usually write the wrong thing about me, so I
Ya know, all the black singers get down. just look at it and laugh. I realize that we have to sell
records. I don’t mind making the video. There are a
There’s a lot of artists out there that mention you lot things I would do, [but] nobody asks me. Like the
as someone they would love to work with. Milton United Negro College Fund, they never asked me. I
Nascimento said so recently. Could you see yourself told one of them I’d do it and they said, “Now when
collaborating at this point? you get this call you’re gonna remember what you
Well, Nick [Ashford] and Valerie [Simpson] called said.” Then they never called.
me up to do something, but I wasn’t in the country. I
wouldn’t mind. You know that goes back to the jazz Well, Miles, thank you for your time.
bullshit. I’d say no if they wanted to play “How High It was nice talking to you, man.
the Moon” or something. I can’t do projects like that
’cause it’s not my turf. Nice talking to you, Miles.
MILES
SMILES
THE PRINCE OF DARKNESS LIGHTENS UP AND TALKS ABOUT LIFE, MUSIC AND PAINTING
F ROM JA Z Z I Z SE P T E M B E R 1 9 8 9
P
acific Coast Highway is on the painting clothes, Miles sparked up; he came out
flipside of the continent from 52nd minutes later with paint-splattered overalls. “The
Street — both in geography and junkman is here,” he dead-panned in his gravelly
culture. One was the birthplace of whisper.
bebop in the late ‘40s, where the
young Miles Davis first hung his DAYS LATER, AFTER A PERFORMANCE IN CHICAGO,
hat and blew his horn to an awed MILES MET WITH JAZZIZ ONCE AGAIN. THIS TIME HE
public. In the late ‘80s, the other WOULD PORE OVER THE PROOFS FROM THE PHOTO
avenue, wending its way alongside the Pacific coast, SESSION BEFORE TURNING ABRUPTLY TO PUBLISHER
is the preferred landing spot for the showbiz elite. LORI FAGIEN, HANDING HER THE STACK, AND SAYING,
Johnny Carson is there. So is Miles Davis, in a house “HERE, YOU PICK.” NOBODY SECOND GUESSES MILES
that’s only a spit from the Pacific. DAVIS. HE MAKES SURE OF THAT.
You turn off P.C.H. and approach the imposing The hot-and-cold factor is also important to bear
grey slab of a house. Outside, an Everlast punching in mind when listening to Amandla, Miles’ second
bag and a Ferrari with plates reading MILES 2 2 quell recording as a leader for Warner Bros., after three
any doubts that you’ve arrived chez Miles. Here, the decades on Columbia. Less angular than Tutu, less
trumpeter enjoys the good life and has big fun, playing blandly silken than Miles’ curious dips into the Cyndi
his horn, cooling his heels, painting his semi-abstract Lauper and Michael Jackson song books, his latest
fantasies on canvas and, sometimes, entertaining is a winning entry from a latter-day cool period.
visiting journalist types who come here, when Marcus Miller’s sharp writing and production envelop
admitted, to enjoy an audience with a living myth. Miles’ muted trumpet with slick but innovative,
At 63, Miles is a walking paradox. He’s a survivor funky rhythm tracks. Miles, who was produced by
of multiple jazz wars. Far from resting on his veteran Teo Macero for decades, seems to have found a new
laurels, he’s looking ahead, listening, ignoring the soulmate in Miller, who started with Miles in the
advice of critics and record people alike. He runs bass role. “Tommy LiPuma put us together,” Miles
hot and cold, and it’s hard at times to separate the says. “Tommy said, ‘Marcus writes his ass off.’ He was
man from the image. He runs the voodoo down and working with me, and I was so sick then I wasn’t
yet retains a child-like innocence which, no doubt, writing much.”
accounts for his musical freshness. Both out of Shuffling go-go beats rule the rhythmic
respect for his legend and because he’s so disarming landscape. Miles is in fine form, saying a great deal
that a first-name basis seems apt, everybody knows with a few slicing, well-placed notes. Dispensing
him as Miles (or Sir Miles, since he received the Order with his mute, Miles hits an eloquent stride above the
of Malta in 1988.) sampled big-band textures of Miller’s lustrous ballad
The Miles paradox was tangible on the “Mr. Pastorius” — which seems as much a tribute to
crisp, windy May day that he met with JAZZIZ. Miles’ old cohort, Gil Evans, as to Pastorius. This is
Photographer Jeff Sedlik and his assistants set pop-jazz as an art form.
up their studio-on-the-run in Miles’ backyard Forget what you read in the tabloids at the
overlooking the ocean. We waited. Miles returned late checkout line: Miles sniffs at the spurious rumors of
from his daily swim, and his assistant came out to his having AIDS. Long afflicted with various health
warn us, in a conspiratorial whisper, that “Miles is in problems — including a recent bout of pneumonia,
a really shitty mood.” Whether this was the truth or a which he also had in the mid-’70s, — Miles may
ploy by a master manipulator was anybody’s guess. have been ripe pickings for yellow journalists. But
Finally emerging, a lean, swarthy figure slinking he has always stubbornly forged ahead in spite of
into the sunlight, the grimacing Miles sat through health problems, playing on pained bended knee if
a long photo session as whatever resistance he necessary. Apart from his absence, a regeneration
had gradually eroded. Cool phrases spilled from his period in the late-’70s, Miles has answered to his
gleaming red trumpet as he sat on the lawn, the muse diligently.
Pacific providing a backdrop. Asked to put on his Now, he’s the picture of health. Something in his
gait is athletic. Something in his steady gaze is both Miles Davis: I don’t like a dead phrase or a dead
profound and ever-young. Something in his low, gruff section. To me, it just shouldn’t exist. If I see or hear
voice is both commanding and introspective. And all something like that and I can’t correct it, I stop it.
of that seeps into his playing.
From bop to cool, from his days with John IS IT A MATTER OF FINDING THE RIGHT CHEMISTRY
Coltrane and Kind of Blue to his mid-’60s quintet BETWEEN PLAYERS? IS THAT WHAT MAKES FOR A
of saxist Wayne Shorter, drummer Tony Williams, GOOD BAND?
pianist Herbie Hancock and bassist Ron Carter, In the first place, you’ve got to get the drummer.
Miles personified the jazz ethos as an adventure in No drummer, no band. The band drummer has to
change and evolution. Slouching towards the ‘70s, he listen to what’s going on. I used to tell them, “Play
plugged in and turned everyone on their ears. After these two bars 3/4, the rest of them shuffle [sings
In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew, Miles’ seminal jazz- what he means]. I don’t care how you all do that,
rock phase led him into a dark era in the mid-’70s. His but that’s all I want to hear.” You have to tell them,
bill of health was quavering, but several of the “lost” “No filling,” because a man’s ego is such that if a girl
’70s works — On the Corner, Big Fun, Get Up With It, comes that he likes, he loses control.
Agartha — were mysteriously captivating; it would
even be argued that they laid the groundwork for the YOU’RE SAYING THAT MAYBE THE INFLUENCE OF
M-Base out of Brooklyn. After a five year hiatus, Miles WOMEN — THE DESIRE TO IMPRESS WOMEN — HAS
re-emerged with his horn. HAD A LOT TO DO WITH MUSICIANS OVERPLAYING OR
Today, you could sense in him a man of action, PLAYING TOO LOUD?
coiled, ready to hit the road and dispel rumors of Definitely. Because they want them to know.
his infirmity. “I get itchy,” he says. “I get restless. But, Mino used to do that on drums. I’m not like that, and
when I get like that, it’s something with the band it’s my band, so I don’t figure anybody else should.
that I want them to do. I have to wait.” Talking about They stand on stage like me.
Miles’ cast of players is always a conversational rope-
a-dope. Miles likes to play devil’s advocate, dishing DID YOU EVER GO THROUGH THAT PHASE YOURSELF,
out equal admiration and admonition. WHEN YOU WERE STARTING OUT?
As we speak, Miles is reserving his highest praise Who? Me? Shit. Hell, no. One time, Bird walks up
for the new blood in the band, the prodigious young and says, “You’re playing too loud.” But I know he was
keyboardist, Kei Akagi. How does a new musician get out for coke, and coke makes everything too loud. I
to the inner circle with Miles? “I just sent out notice was playing with a mute. I would always play under
that I was looking for a piano player. His name came him. I could feel when he was going to fill in. I would
up. He’s a hell of a musician. He’s so funny. He never wait and then play right under. You know what I’m
did say anything. I just told him to learn the parts. saying? It’s hard to do that.
I walked up to him one night and said, ‘Kei, is there I used to do that to Coleman Hawkins, too. Some
anything we play that you’d really like to play on?’ parts of the melody you harmonize with him on, and
He’s quiet, you know. then maybe you’ll fall off and play a variation. You
“The next day he came to rehearsal and said ‘I’d know, it has to be spontaneous, plus you really have
like to play “Tutu.”’ He’s so good, he just set a whole to know the chords so you won’t play the wrong
’nother groove. The groove is him. So I ask him again, thing.
‘Is there anything else you want to do?’ He says,
“‘Wrinkles.’” I know that still waters run deep because DID YOU HAVE THAT SAME KIND OF RAPPORT WITH
I was quiet like that. He’s going to be something. He’s WAYNE SHORTER, WHERE YOU WOULD GAUGE YOUR
already something.” OWN VOICE WITH HIS?
Yeah. You could tell what part of the note, what
JAZZIZ: YOUR BAND IS ALWAYS CHANGING. DOES part of his sound you could play off of. Wayne had
THAT AFFECT YOU AND THE WAY YOU HEAR MUSIC, some different ideas. We used to play [he sings a
OR IS IT THE OTHER WAY AROUND? rubbery “Footprints” melody], and the way we were
playing it, nobody else could play it like that — except obviously at the front of his lobes. “That’s go-go in the
for me and Wayne. We knew the rhythm wasn’t song ‘Big Time,’” he suddenly announces to me, as if
going to drop, so we could delay it and pull on it. Tony he’d been thinking about it all day, “I don’t know if
never dropped time. that’ll hold together. I’ve got to make it hold together.
I told Marcus, ‘There’s a dull spot in there.’ We just
RHYTHMICALLY, THAT MID-60S BAND DEALT WITH have to do something to fix it.” Miles stares off for a
PRETTY MUCH OF A DEPARTURE FROM BEBOP, FROM moment, and starts singing the tune. “You know it
CYMBAL-RIDING, TIME-IN-YOUR-FACE DRUMMING. pretty good? It’s empty right there. It’s going to knock
Well, right now the drums have the lead. There’s me out to find something there. I can’t wait.”
no melody. The drums have it [he imitates a drum Does he analyze his tunes that closely?
groove]. See, when that comes around again, and Miles shakes his head. “If you’d asked me to sing it
you’re singing the melody, you can attack it differently. yesterday, I couldn’t have.”
You can set it up. Plop, bang! It goes because the drums Since his electric phase began, Miles has proven to
have a certain pattern that they play. be an impeccable talent scout for guitarists, starting
That’s why commercials sound better than most with John McLaughlin and including, over the years,
of the bands we have today, because now you can Pete Cosey, Reggie Lucas (who went on to produce
take a funky drum beat and program it. And it will the first Madonna release), Mike Stern and John
sound like that all night. You can just set it there and, Scofield. The new disc features the fine young guitar
as long as you pay your light bill, it will sound like player Jean-Paul Bourelly (“I heard him do something,
that [goes back into a rolling groove]. and he did what I wanted him to do,” Miles asserts.
I hear these drum programs every day on the “Maybe he’ll do something else.”) and the soulful Los
television, with great melodies. I say, ‘Damn, sounds Angeleno, Mike Landau.
good.’ I don’t know no band that sounds like that. Did Miles fall in love with the guitar after
working with McLaughlin? “I was in love with
YOU HAD AL FOSTER DOING THOSE KINDS OF Charlie Christian. Charlie Christian started all that
TWISTED HIGH-HAT PATTERNS DURING THE ’70S. stuff, playing the way Bird plays. Like you said, it’s
IT WAS ALMOST STRAIGHT FUNK THAT HE’D KEEP the single-line stuff. But I finally got a guitar player
GOING, BUT THEN HE WOULD INJECT WEIRD that I like. Mike Stern and John McLaughlin are great
SYNCOPATIONS INTO THE GROOVE. players, but they don’t know nothing about inside
He did it better in the ’70s; he can’t do it now. playing — in-between playing, like rhythm guitar.
You see, Al is a musician, right? He plays baritone Nothing. Nothing at all.”
saxophone and piano. So when I’m playing, he wants Listening to certain tracks on Amandla — such
to hear me. I say, “Al, fuck that, just play the drums.” as the oblique balladry of the title cut, various
Miles doesn’t have time for false politeness synthesizer colorings or the slithering countermelody
when it comes to questions of racial attributes. He’s of John Bigham’s “Jilli” — it’s hard to miss the
convinced that white and black jazz players have a influence of Joe Zawinul, Miles’ one-time keyboardist
different sense of time. “Jazz phrasing is delayed, but (and now his neighbor, since he lives within a few
it’s not delayed to the point where the time drops. miles). When Zawinul’s name comes up, Miles
Most white arrangers are like that.” He starts singing says, “Somebody asked me the other day, ‘Does Joe
a languid, medium-tempo swing melody. “They play white?’ He doesn’t play white. See, with piano
play like that. I can tell a white arranger when I hear players, those who have played with singers are
one. But see, that’s not the way Basie and those cats good piano players. Joe played for so long with Dinah
played. They played like [he sings a tight, crisp line]. Washington, he plays good piano. What I like about
The brass section used to kill me because that’s the him is that he doesn’t try to play too fast.”
way they would phrase.” Would he consider playing with Zawinul, or some
Even after close to 50 recordings, Miles hasn’t of his other numerous comrades again? “Yeah, if I
taken for granted the process of creating new music. could play with him, I would. He’s something. He has
The realities of Amandla, and the pending tour, are a funny way with phrasing.”
 Miles gets up to show me some of his recent graced the covers of On the Corner and In Concert,
paintings, canvases laying in a pile by the kitchen. If his new paintings are vivid, painterly blends of
an uninitiated visitor were to walk into Miles’ living influences as disparate as Joan Miro, inner-city mural
room, he might assume that this was the residence of art and Matisse. I offer that I’m not the only one who
an artist, not a musician. Art, by Miles and others, is sees the Matisse connection. “Yeah, everybody says
scattered with a casualness that bespeaks obsession. that,” he nods. “But I like to think this is a Memphis
On a chair in the bathroom is a small painting of style that I do. Things that you would never see. A car
a famous Matisse image, inscribed “to Miles and …” They are large, sprawling canvases, full of color
Cicely Tyson,” Miles’ former wife. It is signed by Joni and strange surreal details, sometimes intermingling
Mitchell. “I’ve got to bring that out here somewhere,” bodies or abstract color swatches. “I paint them right
Miles says, suddenly embarrassed to have Mitchell’s on here,” he points to a big glass table. “Lionel Richie
art behind closed doors. bought a lot of paintings. Quincy did, too. Quincy
Unlike the bad-ass cartoon figures of Miles’ that wants five paintings.”
Miles shares with Tony Bennett
a promising side-line career in visual
art. But it’s all of a piece in the creative
fiber of Miles’ life. Like his musical
canvases, Miles’ paintings are at once
direct and illusive, scattered gestures
of color. It may be that he keeps his
head above the torrents of self-doubt
or stasis because he’s stubborn, gifted,
proud and perpetually listening. He
also has his mystique in perspective.
“It’s not that serious,” Miles
smiles. “Social music, social sound.
It’s not that serious. It’s not even that
serious to be reviewed. They get mad
at me for playing like I do, but I don’t
care, because someone always does,”
he laughs.
“When I got Sonny Rollins in
the band, the record company said,
“‘Who is that player? What kind of
saxophone is that?’ I said, ‘Shut up.’
When I got ’Trane — he had one
tooth out — they said, ‘Who is that
guy?’ When I had Art Blakey, they
said, ‘Let’s take this quilt and put it
over the drums.’ I said, ‘Man, don’t
do that. You don’t see no African
covering up the drums.’”
You don’t see Miles Davis playing
by anyone’s rules other than his own,
even by his own rules of last year or
the year before. He’s a man in flux,
fighting form. And he might just
become a household name yet.
 F ROM JA Z Z I Z F E B RUA RY 2 0 0 4

POSSESSING A POWERFUL PERSONALITY, INSPIRING BUT ENIGMATIC,

MILES DAVIS CUT A STRIKING FIGURE ON STAGE AND, BY ALL ACCOUNTS,

COULD BE DOWNRIGHT INTIMIDATING IN-PERSON. HERE, SOME OF

THOSE WHO KNEW HIM BEST (SIDEMEN, COLLABORATORS, PRODUCERS,

PROMOTERS) RECALL THEIR FIRST MEETING AND OFFER SOME

SURPRISING INSIGHTS INTO THE MUSICIAN, THE MAN AND THE MYTH.

F R O M T H E E D I T O R S
“HE NEVER REALLY TOLD That was my first conversation with Miles Davis.
I felt that because Sid told me not to give money to
US SPECIFICALLY WHAT TO Miles, I saved $10.
Boston-born jazz promoter and musician George
PLAY. HE’D JUST SAY, ‘DON’T Wein founded the Newport Jazz Festival in 1954. His
exploits are detailed in Myself Among Others: A Life in
FOLLOW ANYBODY; PLAY Music (Da Capo Press), co-authored by Nate Chinen.

WITH HIM, BUT DON’T MICHAEL HENDERSON Bassist

I was a teenager playing at the Copacabana in
FOLLOW HIM. DIVIDE AND 1969 or early ’70 with Stevie Wonder’s band. Berry
Gordy, Mick Jagger, The Temptations, Joe Cocker were
CONQUER — YOU KNOW all there. Miles came upstairs after the show with his
lady, Betty [Mabry] Davis, on his arm. She had on a
WHAT I’M SAYIN’?’” see-through top that I’ll never forget. I was a kid and
had never seen anything like that before. She was
—MICHAEL HENDERSON walkin’ eye-candy. Miles was sharp, too. Everybody
froze when he came in, but I didn’t know who he
GEORGE WEIN Producer was. With a woman like that on his arm, I knew he
Early in 1952, at Storyville, a club in New Haven, was somebody. He walked over to Stevie and said,
Connecticut, for a disastrous few weeks I opened “I’m takin’ your fuckin’ bass player,” and Stevie’s head
for a sextet that had been organized by Symphony went to the side. I don’t think he knew what Miles
Sid [Torin]. Sid was the voice behind the live radio Davis was whisperin’ about.
broadcasts from Birdland. He had set up a tour for his Miles gave me his number, and I gave him mine,
bebop all-stars. The group consisted of Jimmy Heath and he called a short while later. He said he’d fly me
on tenor saxophone, his brother Percy on bass, J.J. out from Detroit and take good care of me. He flew
Johnson on trombone, Milt Jackson on vibraphone, me to New York, where I stayed in his brownstone.
Kenny Clarke on drums and Miles Davis on trumpet. The day before the first session for the Jack
At the beginning of the engagement, Symphony Johnson record, we had a meeting of the minds at
Sid told me not to give Miles any money. I was his house — John McLaughlin, Jack DeJohnette and
paying the group $1,200 for the week, from which all Herbie Hancock. We went over some stuff which we
of their expenses — including Sid’s managerial fee didn’t wind up playin’ the next day at the session.
and the agent’s percentage — were being extracted. Billy Cobham was on drums at the studio. We were
I paid this amount directly to Sid, and he paid the just warming up, and John kicked off a couple of
musicians. Miles, who was deep into drugs at this chords. Billy, Herbie and I started playing a kind of
time, probably owed Sid some money from their last shuffle thing, and then Miles was out in the house
gig. Later that night, Miles approached me. blowing. I saw the red light go on, and I knew what
“George,” he said, “give me $10.” that meant.
“Sid told me not to give you any money, Miles. I He never really told us specifically what to play.
can’t do it.” He’d just say, “Don’t follow anybody; play with him,
George,” he said, as if he hadn’t heard me, “give but don’t follow him. Divide and conquer — you
me $5.” know what I’m sayin? Come up with your own idea.
“Come on, Miles, I can’t do it. The man said not to Don’t play what you think you’re gettin’ ready to play;
give you any bread.” play what you think shouldn’t be there. Just don’t
“George, give me a dollar.” play the obvious, you know? Don’t bore me to death.”
“Miles…” Michael Henderson played with Davis from 1970-
“Give me fifty cents, George. Give me a quarter. 1975, and formed the band Children on the Corner to
George, give me a penny.” pay tribute to the fusion music of his former employer.
JOHN SCOFIELD Guitarist “MILES WAS BETTER WHEN
I first met Miles when I was a member of the
Dave Liebman Quintet. He came into Seventh PEOPLE TREATED HIM AS A
Avenue South — a club we were playing in — one
night in ’79 or ’80. It was during his “retirement.” PERSON RATHER THAN AS AN
There were very few people in the club, so we were
very aware while playing that he had arrived with
his entourage. I was thrilled that my idol was there.
ICON.” —JOHN SCOFIELD
After the set, Dave introduced me. Miles said in his
hoarse whisper, “Hey John, you sound good.” I then JASON MILES Programmer/Producer
began to gush the usual — “Oh Miles, you’re my I had been working on demos with Marcus Miller
favorite musician; I’ve always wanted to meet you; for the album Tutu, and Marcus said to me, “I want
you changed my life.” He interrupted me with, “Shut you to be on the record, but in the end it’s up to Miles.
the fuck up,” and walked away. You’ll either be here five weeks or five minutes.” I
A year or so later, I heard he was considering saw Miles at Clinton Studios, walked over to him, and
having me in his band. He called one night when I calmly introduced myself. He looked over at me and
wasn’t home, and my wife took the call. “Tell him said, “I like your name.” I felt like all of the work I’ve
Miles is looking for him,” he said, and rattled off his done in my whole life was for that moment. My wife,
phone number. Susan repeated the number to him, however, has a much more exciting story of her very
and Miles responded with, “Go to the head of the first meeting with Miles.
class,” and hung up on her. Miles was better when
people treated him as a person rather than an icon. It KATHY BYALICK
took me a while to stop genuflecting and get on with I had heard that Miles had kicked out of the studio
a regular relationship. another musician’s wife just the week before. … I had
John Scofield spent three-and-a-half years with gone into the city with my husband, and Jason had
Davis, from 1982-1985, touring and appearing on to stop by the studio to do a couple of touch-ups that
albums like Star People and Decoy. would only take about a half-hour. Clinton [Studios]
was in a part of the city that I couldn’t exactly go out
DAVE LIEBMAN Saxophonist and walk around, so Jason convinced me to stay.
My first experience with Miles was at a club From our initial meeting, Miles was always very
called Danny’s in midtown Manhattan. I was playing nice. We were friends until he died. When Jason and I
there with Steve Grossman, Lenny White, Dave went to visit Miles at his apartment, he would always
Holland, Bob Moses, George Cables and another be showing me drawings and paintings or books of
bassist. We were playing free jazz in a double-quartet African art. I loved his use of color in his art. A couple
situation on a Sunday afternoon in the late 1960s. of times I asked Miles to take a picture with Jason.
Lenny had just recorded Bitches Brew and had told So Miles would move over next to Jason, and I would
Miles about the gig. He came in and stayed, talking to always ask him if he minded standing next to one of
all of us after the set. his paintings, and of course he would oblige me and
Then he took us outside on 46th Street to show always have such a big smile on his face.
us the bullet holes in his red Ferrari, which had Keyboardist, programmer and producer Jason Miles
just happened the night before in Brooklyn. I guess programmed synthesizers for the Davis albums Tutu,
someone didn’t dig Miles! Amandla, and Music From Siesta. He and his wife,
Dave Liebman played with Davis from 1970-1974, Kathy Byalick, have also collaborated on a New Age CD,
appearing on albums like Dark Magus and Get Up With Visionary Path.
It (both since reissued, featuring Liebman’s liner notes).
I GOT A SENSE THAT HE
WANTED EVERYTHING
REAL, NOT FORCED, AND
THAT HE DIDN’T WANT
TO BE SURROUNDED BY
BLIND ACOLYTES WHO
WOULD DO OR SAY
ANYTHING TO PLEASE
HIM.” —BENNY RIETVELD
BARRY FINNERTY Guitarist with Miles Davis, Hubert Laws, and The Crusaders.
I first met Miles in ’79. Miles hadn’t been playing He is a member of the Davis tribute band Children
and was in a lot of pain, after breaking his legs in a car on the Corner.
accident. One night Julie Coryell [Larry’s wife] called
and told me Miles was staying at her house for the AIRTO MOREIRA Percussionist
weekend and needed his prescription for painkillers. My first personal contact with Miles was in 1968
This was an invitation I was not going to pass up! I in Los Angeles, and apparently he was not feeling like
threw my Guitorganizer [guitar/organ/synthesizer talking to a white percussionist from Brazil because
combo] in the car, went to the drugstore and drove up he didn’t say a word to me, but he told his road
to Connecticut. We hung out for a couple of days and manager to get me out of his face. And that felt like a
made a little tape of some grooves; he even pulled out mortal punch to my soul.
his horn and started playing a little. I drove him back My first musical contact with Miles was in 1970
to New York, and that was when he said to me, “Let’s on a rehearsal at his house. It was very confusing
get a band together.” I was in heaven! because I felt that he didn’t know what he was
But it wasn’t until ’81 that he felt well enough to looking for, and Wayne Shorter was leading the
make his comeback. rehearsal. After that, we recorded the album Bitches
Miles was actually a very funny guy. His sense of Brew. I went on playing and recording with the band
humor could be salty, and the laughs often came at for about two years. I never told Miles about 1968.
another’s expense. During the sessions for The Man Airto Moreira helped Davis usher in the fusion
With the Horn, I was working out a rhythm-guitar part era on albums like Bitches Brew and Live Evil before
for one of the tunes — just messing around with a becoming an original member of both Weather Report
couple of ideas — when Teo Macero ran into the studio and Return to Forever.
and excitedly said to Miles, “That sounded really hip,
what Barry was just doing. We should use that.” SAMMY FIGUEROA Percussionist
Miles stared at him, incredulously. “YOU thought One night I was at home in New York. It was about
that was hip?” he exclaimed. Then with impeccable one o’clock in the morning, the phone rings, and this
timing, he turned to me and said, “Don’t play it!” guy says it’s Miles. I thought it was somebody joking,
Another one I heard, though I wasn’t there, is about and I hung up on him. It was really late, and I was half
the time his sax player had jumped in and played asleep. So he calls me back and says he’s going to kick
a solo unexpectedly on a tune he didn’t normally my ass, and then I realized it was really him, and I was
play on. After the show, the saxist said to Miles, “I’m shocked that he called me instead of his manager. So
sorry I jumped in like that, but the music sounded so I was really silent. I said I was sorry, and he said he’d
good I just couldn’t help myself.” Miles looked at him heard me on a Chaka Khan album that he loved and
and replied, in his trademark whisper, “The reason it he wanted that sound. So I said, “Great. Sure. I’d love to
sounded so good is ‘cause you wasn’t playin’!” come. When do you want me to come?” And he said, “I
Barry Finnerty has performed and recorded want you to come right now.” So I got up, got dressed.
It was 1:15 in the morning, and I went to the studio.
They were still recording. They were recording The
“HE CAME UP AND PUNCHED Man With the Horn.
So I walked in, and he was really intimidating,
ME IN THE STOMACH. I sitting in a chair. And he came up and punched me in
the stomach. He hit me hard. I didn’t know why he did
DIDN’T KNOW WHY HE DID that and wasn’t ready for it, so I hit him back. So now
we’re hitting each other. There’s a fight in the studio
THAT, AND WASN’T READY and the producer, Teo Macero, comes running out and
breaks us up. And Miles looks up and says [imitating
FOR IT, SO I HIT HIM BACK.” his whisper], “Yeah, that was good!” And I’m thinking,
—SAMMY FIGUEROA “Oh, man, this guy’s crazy.” We record until six in
the morning, and after that, he wanted me to hang done totally with love, and not out of malice. Then we
out with him. I went over to his place, and we hung all kind of laughed because that was the way Miles
out until 10 in the morning. After that, we became was — freaky and funny, with a good sense of humor,
friends, very tight. Was his craziness an act? No, it respect and kindness for his band members.
was not an act. He was very eccentric. He was always Benny Rietveld played on some of Davis’ final tours,
testing people to see what they were capable of. and on both live (Live Around the World) and studio
Sammy Figueroa played and recorded with Davis albums (Dingo).
on The Man With the Horn. Nowadays, he leads a band
in Miami and records electronica projects in Europe. FRED TAYLOR Producer/Promoter
It was in 1967 at the Jazz Workshop [in Boston].
BENNY RIETVELD Bassist It was the first time I had ever booked Miles, and I
Ricky Wellman and I were picked up from our was very apprehensive. There used to be a joke at the
Santa Monica hotel and taken to Miles’ Malibu home time: “They have a Miles Davis doll — you wind it up,
to meet him, have dinner and hang out. I remember and it turns its back on you.”
walking through the door of a beautiful beach house He arrived on a Monday night; in those days we
and seeing Miles, who was wearing a brownish kind of had music seven days a week. So I went down to the
designer outfit. I was sort of waiting in a queue as he club, and he’s sitting at the bar. So I go up to him and
said his hellos to Ricky, Adam Holzman and some other say, “Hi Miles, I’m Fred Taylor.” And he’s just looking
people. Then the way cleared, and he stood there before straight ahead, as if I didn’t exist. So I said, “How do
me about four feet away. He regarded me for a quick you like to run your sets?” And he turns and says
second, then cocked his head a little and said, “Benny.” [imitating Davis’ malevolent whisper], “I came here
He showed us the room where he had his to play, man.” So I looked at him and said, “Well, we
musical gear set up — a Tascam four-track recorder, start at nine; we close at two. You’re in charge.” And
an Emu sampler, maybe a Roland D-50 and that was I walked away. And at nine o’clock, he had that band
about it. He tried to play us some things, but there on that stand and played a great night. It was a great
was something not hooked up properly or some week. That was it. Miles didn’t like bullshit, platitudes
other problem, and he couldn’t get anything to make or fluff, so when I told him what it was and walked
any kind of noise. It was kind of amusing, actually. away, it set up things right, and from that point on, we
Yet I really admired him, a bona fide jazz legend, had a very straightahead, no-nonsense relationship. …
having been through so many changes in the music I was the only club he ever played in Boston.
industry (even spearheading some of them), still Fred Taylor, who ran the legendary Jazz Workshop
interested in the latest music tools — as befuddling and Paul’s Mall in Boston from 1963 to 1978, produced
as they were to him. Davis’ comeback shows at Kix (which was actually a
I got a sense that he wanted everything real, not disco, not a jazz club) in June 1981.
forced, and that he didn’t want to be surrounded
by blind acolytes who would do or say anything to MARCUS MILLER Bassist/Producer
please him. My suspicion was later confirmed when I was on a pop recording session in 1981 when
we were listening to something of his. It had been Miles called the studio. Miles left a message: “Call
mixed to cassette so we would hear it through this Miles.” I figured it was a joke, but I couldn’t afford
little boom box on the fireplace mantle. We were all not to find out. Miles answered and told me to be at
gathered around listening and what we heard was the CBS recording studio in two hours. I had been
rather primitive and dinky, owing to his unfamiliarity present at an aborted 1979 session that was supposed
with the equipment and the sounds he was using. to involve Miles, so I asked, “Are you gonna be there?”
Then a band member (who shall remain nameless) Miles answered, “I’ll be there if you’ll be there.” Two
said, “Damn, that’s bad, man! It sounds great.” Miles hours later I was recording with him, Bill Evans,
just turned around and said, “Fuck you!” Said band Barry Finnerty, Al Foster and Sammy Figueroa. Those
member was put in his place, hung his head a little sessions would eventually become part of The Man
bit, but still smiled since he knew the reprimand was with the Horn.