Jessie Sterritt Testimony Overview
Jessie Sterritt Testimony Overview
VIOLET SMITH,
Gitksan Interpreter,
Sworn
JESSIE STERRITT
Witness called on behalf of the
Plaintiffs, Sworn, testifies,
as follows:
A Yes.
Q Are there any other houses that you are a member of?
A We are all under one House even though there are many
Chiefs in the House, we are under one House.
Q Who are the other Chiefs that are in the House of
Gyedimgaldo'o?
A A'yawasxw, 'Wiigoob'l, Biiniks, Xskiigimlaxha.
Q These four Chiefs are in the House of Gyedimgaldo'o, is
that right?
A Yes.
Q Now, do these four Chiefs also have separate Houses?
A 'Wiigoob'l is the only that had separate House.
Q Now, who are the Chiefs of 'Wiigoob'l' s House?
A They all go under the House of Gyedimgaldo'o.
THE INTERPRETER: All the Chiefs that she named are members.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Now, what crests are used with the House of
Gyedimgaldo'o?
A Frog and raven.
Q The crest of Gyedimgaldo'o is Lax Seel?
THE INTERPRETER: The crest?
MR. RUSH: Perhaps I should ask.
Q What is the Clan of the House of Gyedimgaldo'o?
A Lax Seel.
Q And the word for Clan is P'tekt?
A P'tekt.
Q That's my pronounciation. Can you tell us your mother's
name?
A Hahliiyee.
Q What is your mother's English name?
A Esther Joseph.
Q Did your mother have a sister?
A Yes.
Q And her name was Noxs To'o?
A Yes.
Q What does Noxs To'o mean?
A Mother of Gyedimgaldo'o.
Q Yes. Now, did your mother have another sister?
A Yes, Noxs Ganii.
Q Did Noxs Ganii have an English name?
THE INTERPRETER: She does not remember.
THE WITNESS: (In English) I do not remember.
THE INTERPRETER: Sorry.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Was your mother and her sister in the House of
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Gyedimgaldo'o?
A Yes.
Q You have given us your mother's Gitksan name and her
English name, would you tell us what your mother's name
means in English?
A Walking along beside a hill or a mountain.
Q Now, who would be entitled to use the name that your
mother used?
A It may be used by any members of the House but present
it is used by Valerie.
THE INTERPRETER: Her granddaughter.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q What is Valerie's last name?
A Jack(?).
Q Can you tell us what Clan would be entitled to use the
name that your mother used?
A Lax Seel.
Q Now, did your mother have another name? Did she go by
another name other than Hahliiyee?
A Noxs ' Op.
Q That means Mother of 'Wiigoob'l, is that right?
A Yes.
Q Now, did you have brothers and sisters yourself?
A I have three brothers, no sisters.
Q What House were your brothers in?
A Lax Seel.
Q Can you tell us some of the other family members who are
members of the House of Gyedimgaldo'o today?
THE INTERPRETER: Pardon me, is that the English name?
MR. RUSH: Yes, perhaps we could.
THE WITNESS: Emma Green.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Perhaps we could also have the Gitksan name as well?
A T'amamuuest is Emma's name. Her children. Sylvester.
Q What is the
A Sylvester Green. He is Gyedimgaldo'o.
Q He is the present Gyedimgaldo'o?
A Yes. Renee Green. Larry Green.
THE INTERPRETER: She doesn't know the Gitksan names of the
following, Renee Green, Larry Green.
MR. RUSH: Yes.
THE INTERPRETER: Hazel Holland. Shirley Gallo. Martha
Fargie.
THE WITNESS: Martha Fargie, A'yawasxw. Cora Gray, Axti'am.
Charlotte Sullivan, Biiniks. Don Walstrom, Ts'uuhon.
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Beatrice Dybwad, 'Wiiksemtsiixw. George Gray,
Ts'awats'ekxw. Leslie Gray, Aatix'yaats. Doug Moore,
Gisimaksxw. Vincent Moore, Luumashayats. Brian Dybwad,
Skawil.
Q His name is Skawil?
A Yes, he just received this name. Shelly Wright,
Maxlaks. Sandy Wright, Txahlgitxlomt'ahlxw. Darren
Wright, Baalimwiltxw. Darleen Fargie....
THE INTERPRETER: Told her Darleen's name but it slipped her
mind right now. Darleen Fargie.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Now, the people that you just mentioned, are these
members of the House of Gyedimgaldo'o?
A Yes.
Q Would they all be in the same Clan? Are these members
all of the same Clan?
A Yes.
THE INTERPRETER: All of her children and her daughter's
grandchildren.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Now, you referred to Emma Green a few moments ago, can
you tell me what is Emma Green's relationship to you?
A Very close. We belong to the same House.
Q Are you blood relatives?
A Yes.
Q Now, you referred to Shirley and Hazel I think, are they
Emma's children?
A Yes.
Q Now, you mentioned Biiniks earlier and you said that
Biiniks is related to Gyedimgaldo'o; can you tell us
about Gyedimgaldo'o? What is the English meaning of
Gyedimgaldo'o?
A Man of the woods.
Q Is there a village that Gyedimgaldo'o came from?
THE INTERPRETER: As far as her memory goes he is from
Gitanmaaxs. He lived up on the hill.
Q Is Gitanmaaxs close to Hazelton?
A It is.
THE INTERPRETER: As far as she's concerned it is one and the
same.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q From your knowledge before Gyedimgaldo'o lived in
Hazelton do you know where Gyedimgaldo'o came from?
THE INTERPRETER: No, she doesn't know.
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THE WITNESS: I don't know.
THE INTERPRETER: She say, no.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Were you told where he came from?
A No.
Q Now, you mentioned the name of Skawil and you said there
was a person who presently held the name of Skawil; is
Skawil a Chief's name of the House of Gyedimgaldo'o?
A Yes, one of the big Chief's name in our House.
Q Did you know Daniel Skawil?
A Yes.
THE INTERPRETER: She remembers him.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Do you know when Daniel Skawil died?
THE INTERPRETER: She can't give you a date but he died in
Stewart, B.C.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Do you remember if he died during your lifetime?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember about what age you were when Daniel
Skawil died?
A I think I was about 3 6 when Daniel died.
Q Now, when Daniel Skawil was alive, do you know what
Chief's name that he held other than the name of Skawil?
A Skawil and Biiniks and Xskiigimlaxha.
Q Was that Xskiigimlaxha?
A Yes, Xskiigimlaxha.
Q Was there any other name that he held at the same time?
A No.
Q Do you know, did Daniel Skawil have to pay for his
names?
A Yes, they spent a lot of money when they took their
names.
Q Daniel paid a lot of money too, did he?
A Yes.
Q Now, Skawil sits in the feast hall with Gyedimgaldo'o,
can you tell us where he sits in the feast hall?
A He sits in front of Gyedimgaldo'o.
Q Daniel Skawil had some regalia, could you tell us what
regalia he had that you remember?
A He has a button blanket. It's in the museum.
OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION IN GITKSAN
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WITNESS: The only thing left is the blanket and the
others were burnt when his house burnt down.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Was there anything else that was saved from the fire
apart from the button blanket?
A No.
Q Now, Daniel Skawil, he lived in Gitimaax, is that right?
A Yes, up on the hill here.
Q Now, the name of Skawil, does the name Skawil go back to
another village before Gitanmaaxs?
THE INTERPRETER: She never heard of it.
BY MR RUSH:
Q Now, is there a peace feather in the House of
Gyedimgaldo'o?
A There's a feather and it belongs to Biiniks.
Q What kind of feather is it?
THE INTERPRETER: She doesn't know what it was made of but
it's in the possession -- she has it at her house.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Is it a peace feather?
A Yes.
Q Can you tell us how you came to have it? Was it given
to you?
THE INTERPRETER: When Daniel Skawil was alive he passed it to
Jessie to take care of because it was related to the
territory and gave her the instruction and whatever else
the House possession that they may relinquish not to
relinquish the territory.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q How is the feather related to the territory? How did
you get the feather?
A The Stikeen people killed one of our people on the
territory of Awiijii, Bowser Lake. His name was
Ne'egun.
Q Yes.
A Ne'egun's relatives, one of them was Biiniks, left here
to go and investigate the murder. When they met the
Stikeen people the Stikeen people wanted peace. In
order to have this peace they gave this feather and some
territory and they went the ritual of peace.
Q What is the peace settlement in Gitksan?
A Gawaganii.
Q Where is the territory that was the settlement
territory?
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A The territory of Awiijii, Bowser Lake, and one of our
people is buried on the edge of the lake.
Xski igimlaxha.
Q What Clan or House does this territory now belong to?
A The House of Gyedimgaldo'o.
Q Now, the history that you have just told us about
concerning the settlement of the Awiijii and Bowser Lake
territory, did this happen before your birth?
THE INTERPRETER: Yes, before she was born.
BY MR. RUSH
Q Were you told this by people in your family?
THE INTERPRETER: She was told by Daniel Skawil.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q At the time he told you when he passed on the peace
feather to you?
A Yes. Along with the feather he gave me to take care of
it and the map of the territory which I still have.
Q Now, did your mother raise you?
A Up till I was 11 years old when she died.
Q Jessie, I'm sorry, I missed one question that I wanted
to ask you about the Awiijii and Bowser Lake territory,
before I go on to ask you who raised you. I would just
like to ask you who was buried on the territory. You
mentioned that somebody was buried on the territory,
could you tell us who that is?
A Nagun.
Q Is the person who was Nagun, did that person have an
English name as well?
A No. I don't remember.
Q Do you know how Nagun was related,if he was, related to
Daniel Skawil?
A His brother.
Q Do you know the name of Simon Gunnanoot?
A Gamanuut and he later became Geel.
Q Do you know whether or not Simon Gunnanoot went to the
territory of Awiijii and Bowser Lake as well?
A Yes, he was on the territory. He is the son of Nagun.
MR. RUSH: I see.
THE INTERPRETER: She was just relating how after the murder
that was blamed on him he spent time on the territory,
that is where he was.
MR. RUSH: I see.
THE WITNESS: He left the territory when his father Nagun
died.
MR. RUSH: Thank you for going back to that.
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Q I want to come now to ask you, after your mother died
when you were 11 years old, who was it that raised you?
THE INTERPRETER: Her sister Noxs To'o.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q What was your mother's sister's English name?
A Lucy Morrison.
Q Was Lucy Morrison related at all to Daniel Skawil?
A Yes. They were House members.
Q Now, you earlier talked about where Daniel Skawil sat at
the feast hall, and you said that he sat in front of
Gyedimgaldo'o; was this at the time before there were
tables at the feast?
A Yes.
Q Today when a feast is held there are tables at the feast
hall and the seating arrangement, is it the same or
different than the old days?
A It's the same.
Q Now, do you remember when you were younger if the feast
was ever banned?
A I can't remember what year but the Government banned the
feast.
Q Did the people of your Wilp or the people of your
village continue to hold the feast anyway?
A When it was necessary, when someone died they would
still have the feast but they would --it was done on
the sly, where they would cover all the windows and lock
the doors.
Q Do you remember how long you had to hold feasts on the
sly, covering the windows and locking the doors?
A I can't remember just how long it was but it was during
that period the feast kind of died down a bit.
Q Now, when you lived in Gitanmaaxs where did you first
live? Do you remember where your house was in
Gitanmaaxs?
A I don't remember but I was told that our first house was
where the Inlander Hotel is presently situated.
Q Where did you live with your auntie when she was looking
after you?
A We lived up on the hill.
Q Did you live in a longhouse up on the hill?
THE INTERPRETER: No. It was only when her mother was alive
they lived in the longhouse.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Now, when your mother was alive you say that you lived
in a longhouse, where was that longhouse?
A Just above the hill, above here.
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THE WITNESS: There was not side by side as you say but there was
a nuclear --
THE INTERPRETER: I guess that is the term we use --
THE WITNESS: -- there was a nuclear house between Guuhadakxw
and the House of 'Wiigoob'l. There was the nuclear
houses among them.
Q In addition to the longhouse?
THE INTERPRETER: Yes, the longhouses.
MR. RUSH: Yes, I understand.
Q I want to show you a couple of pictures, Jessie, if you
can just show us where the houses were located? I am
going to show you these photographs and do you see
Gyedimgaldo'o's longhouse in the photograph?
THE INTERPRETER: Yes, she's identified the three houses that
are here.
MR. RUSH: Just pause there for a minute. Would you turn the
photograph toward me and toward the camera and just
point to the houses that have been identified as the
houses in the photograph?
THE INTERPRETER: This is the House of Gyedimgaldo'o,
Guuhadakxw....
MR. RUSH: Yes.
THE INTERPRETER: And there is another one at the end here,
you can just see part of it, 'Wiigoob'l's house.
MR. RUSH: I am going to put "G" on Gyedimgaldo' o' s house,
just so we know that.
MR. PLANT: Will you get Mrs. Sterritt to confirm that
identification?
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Just let me give you that photograph again, the
longhouse with the "G" on the roof is Gyedimgaldo' o' s
longhouse?
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A Yes.
Q Then the house, if you would just point it again at the
camera, the house to the left of Gyedimgaldo'o's house,
is that Guuhadakxw?
A Guuhadakxw.
Q That is Guuhadakxw's longhouse?
A Yes.
Q If you go further along the photograph, you pointed to
'Wiigoob'1's, that is where you're pointing now?
A Yes.
MR. RUSH: I'm going to put "W" on that house.
THE INTERPRETER: You can only see part of it there.
MR. RUSH: Yes. Thank you.
MR. PLANT: You will get her to confirm that one more time?
BY MR. RUSH:
Q If you would take that one more time, where I have
placed the "W" on the photograph, that is the longhouse
of 'Wiigoob'l?
A Yes.
MR. PLANT: Could I have the Gitksan spelling of that last
name?
MR. RUSH: W-I-I-G-0-O-B-L.
OFF THE RECORD
BY MR. RUSH:
Q I just wanted to ask you, whose longhouse is it to the
right of Gyedimgaldo'o's house? There appears to be
another house there? Do you remember whose house that
was?
A It's just a small house.
Q I see.
A That the people of Gyedimgaldo'o live in this house. I
remember sleeping in that house.
Q In Gyedimgaldo'o's house was there a fire in the middle
of the longhouse?
A Yes.
Q This is where your mother lived before she died when you
were aged 11?
A My mother died after we moved out and we had our own
house down the river here.
MR. PLANT: Down by the ferry?
THE INTERPRETER: There used to be a ferry.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q How old were you while your mother was still alive when
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you lived in the houses that are shown in the
photograph? If you remember?
THE WITNESS: At that time they, when the D.I.A. set up and
start giving them English names they would use the
Gitksan names. That would be his father's name that he
would use.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q So 'Wiik'aax would use his father's Gitksan name?
A Yes.
OFF THE RECORD IN GITKSAN
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Now, you've told us about Xskiigimlaxha, was there a
separate Wilp or house from Xskiigimlaxha?
A No, they're all the same.
Q Was Xskiigimlaxha in the House of Gyedimgaldo'o'?
A Yes.
Q Now, you have told us that your mother's sister, Lucy,
her Gitksan name was Noxs To'o?
A Right.
Q Did she have any other Gitksan names?
A 'Wiiksemtsiixw.
Q Did your mother -- did Lucy rather divorce and remarry
during her lifetime that you remember?
A Yes, she was married and separated from Bill, she had a
divorce.
Q Did she have a divorce feast, to your rememberance?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember what age you were at that time when it
happened?
A About 13.
Q Did you go to the divorce feast?
A Yes.
Q Was there money spent at the feast in order for the
divorce to occur?
A Yes.
Q Can you tell us what you remember about the divorce
feast?
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OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION IN GITKSAN
THE WITNESS: At the feast one of the things she had to do was
-- Noxs To'o had to do was to sing the family divorce
song and to dance with her wilksiwitxw, the people from
her father's side. This was when she got her divorce
name.
THE INTERPRETER: You remember you asked what her other name
was, 'Wiiksemtsiixw.
MR RUSH: Yes.
THE INTERPRETER: This is when she took this name, when she
got the divorce.
MR. RUSH: She took the name at that feast?
THE INTERPRETER: Yes.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Do you remember the divorce song?
A No.
Q Did Noxs To'o or Lucy, did she have to pay money at the
divorce feast?
A Yes.
Q Were there many witnesses present, that you remember?
A Yes, the hall was packed. She held her divorce feast at
the house next door to Gyedimgaldo'o', the house of
Guuhadakxw.
Q Was there anything that you did as a young girl at the
divorce feast that was special that you remember?
A No.
Q Now, you said that it was Noxs To'o that raised you, did
she adopt you or announce at a feast that she was going
to be looking after you after your mother died?
A It is one of our laws in our culture that when the
mother dies the sister becomes the mother, and Noxs
Ganii who was up on the Nass River wanted me to go and
live with her but Noxs To'o wanted to keep me so that is
where I stayed.
Q I see. What child -- you had a Gitksan child name, can
you tell us what your Gitksan child name was?
A Ksiiguuxt.
Q What's Ksiiguuxt mean in English?
A In English it means trying to shoot, attempting to shoot
an animal.
Q All right. Do you remember when you got the name of
Ksiiguuxt?
A I don't remember.
Q Now, did you give this name to anybody?
A I pass it on to Martha and now one of my grandchildren
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Mr. Rush
has it.
Q Is the name of your grandchild that now has the name,
Darleen?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember when you passed on the name to Darleen?
A I can't remember the year.
MR. RUSH: Okay.
THE INTERPRETER: If she had known this was all going to
happen she would have written everything down.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Do you remember whether it was recently or a long time
ago that you passed the name on to Darleen?
A It's not too long ago.
Q How old is Darleen?
A She's past 20.
Q Now, did you have other names as a child, other Gitksan
names?
A No, that was only child name.
Q When you get older and you pass out of childhood did you
have another name, that was when you were younger?
A I got the name Axti' am when I was about 20.
Q Do you know who held the name Axti'am before you?
A Ernest Wade.
Q Was he related to Gyedimgaldo'o'?
A Yes.
Q What was the relationship?
A Gyedimgaldo'o's brother.
Q Now, when you took another name did you pass the name of
Axti'am on to somebody else?
A I pass on to Cora Gray.
THE INTERPRETER: She passed the name on to Cora when she took
the name A'yawasxw.
MR. RUSH: Who held that name before?
THE INTERPRETER: A'yawasxw?
MR. RUSH: Yes, A'yawasxw.
THE WITNESS: Charlie Clifford.
MR. RUSH: A'yawasxw would be Jessie's third name, is that
right?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Now, you have the name of 'Wiigoob'l, did you pass the
name of A'yawasxw on to somebody?
A I pass it to Martha when I received the name 'Wiigoob'l.
Q What do you call in Gitksan, what do you say when you
pass a name along like that to other members of the
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House?
A When you pass on a name you say we float the name to the
next - - t o your daughter or to your daughter's daughter.
Q I see.
A Or your brother.
Q When did you take the name of 'Wiigoob'l?
A I took when Charlie Oop died.
THE INTERPRETER: There might be a slight correction there.
She received her name 'Wiigoob'l when Albert Brown
died. He held the name after Charlie, Charlie Oop.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q So prior to Jessie holding the name of 'Wiigoob'l it was
held by Albert Brown?
A Yes.
Q Then prior to Albert Brown the name was held by Charlie
Oop?
A Yes.
Q Charlie Oop, is that short for Charlie 'Wiigoob'l?
A Yes.
OFF THE RECORD
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Do you remember when Albert Brown died how old you were
when you took the Chief's name of 'Wiigoob'l?
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Do you remember how long you held the name, your third
name, Ks i iguuxt ?
THE INTERPRETER: She held it for a while but she can't give
you any number of years.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Now, in your House or Wilp, can you tell us how did
members of the House help each other in times of need?
A They help each other by contributing towards the
expenses. The expenses of the death if there is a
death.
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OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION IN GITKSAN
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Just continuing on from the last answer, there was a
clarification I think that you had conversed with Jessie
about and I wonder if you can tell us what the
clarification was concerning my last question? The
ownership of the property in the old days, whether it
was done together or collectively or separately?
A If you are talking about things that belong to the name,
pass on to the person who they put the name on, when the
person dies, things like the blanket and anything that
goes with the name is passed on.
Q This would be like the regalia?
THE INTERPRETER: Yes, regalia is the word.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Is the regalia owned collectively by the House or
separately?
A Yes, it is owned by the House.
Q Now, is that true today as well?
A Yes, it's the same today.
Q What happened in the old days if some member of the Wilp
stole some material things from another member of the
Wilp?
A That doesn't happen very often but it does happen.
THE INTERPRETER: With her own House, the rattle that we talk
about the other day is held by somebody else. Although
she knows it belongs to her House she can't ask for it
because she expects the other person to do what is right
and return it to her.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q In the old days when there was a theft was there any way
in which the thief was dealt with?
A I can't answer that because I'm not sure.
Q Who was responsible in the old days for the education of
the children in the Wilp?
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A It was the responsibility of the elders of the House to
pass on the knowledge of the history of the House and
anything that may enhance the lives of the young people
of the House, and it was usually not related to another
House, it was something that was kept right in the
House, the methods that they used.
Q Now, did they teach about the laws or the ayook of the
House?
A Yes.
Q Can you tell me what kind of laws or ayook would the
elders teach to the young?
A They were told about the resources of their territory.
The hunting grounds. And fishing grounds and berry
picking ground.
Q Were there special laws that were taught to young girls?
A The female elders, it was their responsibility to teach
young females of the House how to survive and all things
that would enhance their lives.
Q When the young girls moved from childhood into
adolescence and reached puberty were there special laws
that were taught to them?
A When a young female reached that puberty stage they were
removed from the main house and they lived in isolation.
They were put in where it was darkened to protect their
eyes. They were not allowed to eat fresh food. Either
salmon or meat. The reason for the rule to not eat
fresh salmon is that so to protect the hunters that if
these females in this state, in the puberty stage, ate
fresh meat the belief was that scare animals away. The
term we use is hawahlxw.
THE INTERPRETER: Hawahlxw means -- taboo's I guess, not to do
things.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q When the young girls were separated from the rest of the
House were they taught things that were thought to be a
secret?
A The elders of their House saw them and visited them.
Q Okay. When you reached the age of adolescence were you
secluded from the rest of the House?
A Yes, we were on the hunting trail, on the hunting
territories when I reached this stage and I was removed
from the main camp.
Q What distance were you removed from the main camp? How
far away?
A I could see the camp.
Q Were other people with you? Were other females with
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you?
A My cousin was allowed to stay with me.
THE INTERPRETER: It is usually a year they're in seclusion
but because they were on the territory at the time it
happened to her she had to come home.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Do you remember how long it was you were in seclusion?
A (In English) Six or seven months.
Q Do you remember the territory that you were on at the
time?
A Xsu'wiiaks' territory. The territory of 'Wiik'aax.
Q During that period of six or seven months were you
taught special things as a woman during the period?
A I was taught things that would enhance my life.
Q Were you taught anything about future marriage or how to
be a better wife or mother?
THE INTERPRETER: She was told many thing but the decision in
the end was hers. She made the decision of the
particular things she would do in order to survive.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Can you remember any example of one of the things that
you were taught during that period?
A It was just general things that were taught the females
of the day, like how to put up the food staples, like
the fish. How to dry the berries. How to look after a
garden.
Q Now, we've talked a bit about what young girls were
taught, were there special laws that were also taught to
young boys?
THE INTERPRETER: She can't be specific but it was just
general things that a young boy is taught, like hunting
and means of survival that related to those days.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q And the things you have said about what you were taught,
what other girls were taught and what young boys were
taught, these were things -- did they occur during your
lifetime?
A Yes.
Q When you were young whose responsibility was it in the
Wilp to look after the young children?
A It was the responsibility of the elders of the House to
teach the children.
Q Is that responsibility on the elders today as well?
A Today there are some who try to fulfill the
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STERRITT, J.
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Mr. Rush
responsibility but because of the two cultures it is a
little bit difficult.
Q Are you one of those who teaches your grandchildren?
A I teach my children, it is a little bit difficult to
teach the grandchildren because of the language barrier,
many of them do not speak the Gitksan language.
Q I just have one more question to ask and I think it
might be good if we took a break then.
I just wanted to ask who looked after the old
people in the Wilp?
THE INTERPRETER: She remembers when she looked after the
elders of her House when there was nobody else to do it.
Although she did not live in the House she went there
every day to prepare food for them and see that they
were comfortable. It is the responsibility of the House
members to look after their elders.
It was during this time on one of her visits there
that she found one of them had died. That happened in
that House that we pointed out, the House of
Gyedimgaldo'o'.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Was this elder that she looked after, was that
Gyedimgaldo'o' himself?
A Yes.
MR. RUSH: I think we should take a break now, perhaps we can
close off at this point.
OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION
BY MR. RUSH:
Q What about Audrey and Linda, why were they adopted into
your Wilp?
THE INTERPRETER: When their father died they wanted to belong
to Jessie's House.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Was there an adoption feast?
A It's always done at a feast, a very big feast.
Q Did your Wilp sponsor the feast to adopt the three
people into the Wilp?
THE INTERPRETER: When she took Audrey and Linda in she
adopted Audrey and Linda when her son Tommy died. It is
always at their own feasts that they do the adoption.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q At this feast was it required for you to pay for the
witnessing of the adoption?
A Yes, it was and the adopted people are required to spend
money.
Q Were the Gitksan names announced at the adoption feast
by yourself?
A Yes, I did it.
Q Was it you as 'Wiigoob'l or the whole Wilp that
contributed to the cost of sponsoring the witnesses at
the feast?
A My immediate family all helped and then all the members
of the Lax Seel people helped.
Q So it was the members of the P'tekt
A Yes.
Q that contributed at the feast?
A Yes.
Q I see. Now, was a record kept of the contributions that
were made at the feast by members of Lax Seel?
A Yes, we have a record and Tribal Council has a record.
Q Now that Audrey and Linda have been adopted into your
Wilp, what rights do they have as adopted members?
A They have all the rights of the rest of the members of
the Gyedimgaldo'o House.
Q Now, to your knowledge has there ever been an adoption
of a member of your Wilp into another Wilp?
A No.
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Mr. Rush
Q When you were a child who did you spend most of your
childhood with?
A Until my mother died I was with my mother and my father.
Q And after that you have I think testified
THE INTERPRETER: Then she spent her time with her mother's
sister.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q I think you said your mother's sister was married, to
whom was she married?
A First husband was Philip Morrison.
Q And what P'tekt was he in?
A Lax Gibou. Wolf.
Q What was his Wilp?
A Wilp Saxtooxsxw, the House of Saxtooxsxw.
Q You indicated that she separated from Philip Morrison,
did she remarry?
A She then married Gale.
Q What was Gale's first name?
A Walter.
Q And what was his Wilp?
A Giskaast, the Fireweed.
Q Now, was that his Wilp or was that his P'tekt?
THE INTERPRETER: What are you referring to?
MR. RUSH: I was asking the name of Gale's Wilp.
THE WITNESS: Gale is very big Chief in the Fireweed Clan and
refer to his House as Gale's House.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q So it would be the Wilp of Gale?
A Yes.
Q As a young child were you close to the Wilp of Philip
Morrison?
A Yes.
THE INTERPRETER: She was very close between the two Houses.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q You know the father's side of the House, wilksiwitxw, in
English what is the meaning of the term of wilksiwitxw?
A When we use the term wilksiwitxw we are referring to our
father's side.
THE INTERPRETER: She is talking about me, Charlie Clifford is
my father and he comes from Jessie's House so Jessie is
my wilksiwitxw. That is my father's family and all her
family.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Since your father was not of Gitksan origin who was
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STERRITT, J.
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Mr. Rush
your wilksiwitxw?
A I refer to my mother's father's side of the family
Q I see.
A as my wilksiwitxw.
Q So you go back one generation to your mother's husband's
side?
A Yes.
OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION
BY MR. RUSH:
Q I think it was my mistake, Jessie, can you tell us again
since your father was not Gitksan who is your
wilksiwitxw?
A My wilksiwitxw are my mother's father's people.
Q My mother's father. All right.
Now, is that part of the rules or laws of the
Gitksan people that you refer to your mother's father's
wilksiwitxw if you don't have wilksiwitxw in your
father?
A Yes, it is.
Q Now, what was your relationship with your own father,
Mr. Lumm?
A It was very close, we lived as a family.
Q Okay.
A He was a prospector but whenever he was home he was with
us.
Q Did he live with you -- how long did he live with you?
A Until my mother died he lived with us.
Q After your mother died what happened to your father?
A He returned to his homeland, China. He always mentioned
the City or whatever it is, Hong Kong. He would return
occasionally to Canada and he wanted to take us back
with him. I was willing to go with him but my brother
did not want to go. And he promised to send us back to
Canada when we had grown up. I chose not to go because
I thought I would be lonely if I went by myself.
Q Did you maintain contact with your father?
A Yes, he would write letters. He would send us pictures
but we'd lost them during the flood.
Q If there was a need by you for help from your
wilksiwitxw would you get help from your wilksiwitxw?
A If you are referring to my father's side, when they were
here for many years they helped me when I needed help
and they would come to me.
Q When your father left would you be able to count on help
from your mother's father's side?
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Mr. Rush
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Is the territory located to a place that has an English
name?
A It is in the area of Bear Lake and Skeena River.
MR. RUSH: Now, did she say that there was at a point where
Bear Lake met the Skeena River? I wasn't quite....
OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION IN GITKSAN
BY MR. RUSH:
Q After your separation from Simon Wright you married
Thomas Danes, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q You were married to Thomas for about three years?
A (In English) Three or four, five.
THE INTERPRETER: Not too sure. Three or four years.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q After you separated from Thomas Danes you married Gus
Walstrom, is that right?
A Yes.
Q Did you have children by Gus Walstrom?
A Two, Donald and Charlotte.
Q Did Gus Walstrom die during your marriage?
A Yes, he died in an accident.
Q After his death did you then marry Charlie Sterritt?
A Yes.
Q Now, in your Wilp if you need help or assistance of any
kind from another Wilp or other family members what Wilp
would you go to get that help?
THE INTERPRETER: Would you ask your question again?
MR. RUSH: Yes.
Q In your Wilp would you get help from another Wilp if you
needed it?
A In the feast hall if I need help I would get help from
another House, my father's House. In our term we say it
is a blanket, they wrap us in a blanket to help us. So
we are calling it sebilaatxw. Sebilaatxw is blanket or
mattress underneath you, that is how we interpret it in
English.
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Mr. Rush
BY MR. RUSH:
Q The Grease Trail is called in Gitksan?
A Genim wiluusim.
Q Genim meaans trail, does it?
THE INTERPRETER: Or road or path.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q And wiluusim means grease?
A Wiluusim refers to the process of the ooligan grease or
drying of the fish itself.
Q Now, do you know where the Grease Trail went and what it
was used for?
THE INTERPRETER: She was told that there was one that led
from Kispiox to the Nass.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Did you trade for grease yourself?
A Not personally but the people....
THE INTERPRETER: Her aunt, Noxs Ganii from the Nass would
always send the grease to her auntie Noxs To'o.
Q Would you send something back to her for the grease?
THE INTERPRETER: She remembers when her aunt send back dried
berries.
MR. RUSH: I notice Jessie was rolling her hands?
THE INTERPRETER: That would be the bundle. They rolled them
after they dried them.
MR. RUSH: I see. This would be....
A They would be a certain height, they would roll them off
the racks that they dried them on and tied them with
cedar bark.
Q These were rolls of dried berries?
A Yes.
Q Wrapped in cedar bark?
A Tied in cedar bark.
Q Tied in cedar bark. These would have been sent to your
aunt in the Nass?
A Yes.
Q And this would be for the ooligan grease that your aunt
there would send here?
A Yes, it was traded for that.
Q In Gitanmaaxs are there only Houses of Gyedimgaldo'o
that are located in Gitanmaaxs?
Maybe I should frame it another way. There are a
number of Houses, Wilp, that are located in the village
of Gitanmaaxs, is that right?
THE INTERPRETER: She can remember when there was one at the
foot of the hill and besides the three she mentioned to
32
STERRITT, J.
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Mr. Rush
you that is as far as her memory goes.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Now, did these Houses or Wilps work together on common
feasts or common projects in the village?
A Yes. Yes. Whenever there was a project, and I remember
a project when they fill the hall, everybody in the
village, that is when they had teams and horses to haul
lumber, it was all volunteer work.
Q The hall you're referring to, is that the Gitanmaaxs
hall?
A Yes, the one that was up on top of the hill here. It
burnt down.
Q Now, when your Wilp participated in a feast would the
other Wilps from Gitanmaaxs participate in the feast?
A When there was a traditional feast, helped to provide
the eats but if it was a project like the hall it was
all the people, no matter what P'tekt they belong.
Q What is P'tekt? That is the Clan, is it?
A That is the Clan.
THE INTERPRETER: Like Lax Seel or Wolf???.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q They would participate, the Clan together would
participate in the feast?
THE INTERPRETER: At the traditional feast when there's a
death?
MR. RUSH: Yes.
THE INTERPRETER: Yes, just the Clan.
MR. RUSH: Okay.
THE INTERPRETER: And the other two Clans would be guests or
witnesses.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q At the feast hosted by
THE INTERPRETER: By certain, like Lax Seel if it were her
house, it would be Lax Seel.
MR. RUSH: Okay.
THE INTERPRETER: The difference, when there's a common
project like the hall all the different Clans would
participate.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Now, in your Clan was there one simooget who had a
little more authority than the other simooget Chiefs?
A Yes, there is one Chief.
THE INTERPRETER: In her House it would be Gyedimgaldo'o.
33
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Mr. Rush
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Do you remember a time when you were young when
Gyedimgaldo'o signed certain leases on behalf of the
Gitanmaaxs village?
A It was Gyedimgaldo'o who signed the lease paper when the
hospital leased some of their Reserve Land.
Q Was this the Wrinch Hospital?
A Yes.
Q When Gyedimgaldo'o signed those lease papers with the
Wrinch Hospital did he consult with other members of the
House?
THE INTERPRETER: This was before her time but she was just
told that was what the people decided for the good of
the village.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Was she told that the House decided to do it together
with Gyedimgaldo'o?
A It was the whole village that decided, so he was the
main spokesman for the Gitanmaaxs village.
Q Were there other community projects in Gitanmaaxs where
the Chiefs got together and made a decision to build
something or undertake a project?
A Yes, when the totem park was built it was a village
project.
Q Were there other village projects that you remember?
THE INTERPRETER: The other projects she remembers that the
whole village participate is when they surrendered the
land where the present high school is located. That was
a village project.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Did the Chiefs participate in the construction of the
school?
A No, it was strictly white people's project.
Q Sorry. carry on?
A The actual building was by the white people.
Q But was there a decision made to release the land for
the construction of the school?
A It was just the land that they were involved in.
Q Do a number of children from the Gitanmaaxs community
participate and go to school in the high school in
Hazelton?
A That was the understanding that they had with the school
board that the Native children would be able to get a
better education because previously it was just the
Indian day school run by the Government, previously by
the churches, and they felt it was inadequate. They
really couldn't participate in society, to live in the
34
STERRITT, J.
In Chief
Mr. Rush
society that they weren't equipped, that was the
understanding and that was the reason they decided to
give up the territory for the children to be educated
along with the white children.
Q By the territory you mean the piece of land that the
school sits on?
A It was part of the Reserve.
Q Now, do you remember Gyedimgaldo'o travelling to Ottawa
concerning the land of the Gitanmaaxs village?
THE INTERPRETER: Yes, she remembers when she was very small
that a number of the Chiefs from the area went. The
Chiefs from here, ...(?), Kitwanga. Kispiox. All the
Chiefs from there went to Ottawa.
Q Which Chief from Gitanmaaxs went to Ottawa?
A It was Gyedimgaldo'o.
Q What were they doing when they went to Ottawa?
A They wanted to discuss their territory that was being
taken away from them.
Q Do you remember when it was that Gyedimgaldo'o travelled
to Ottawa with the other Gitksan Chiefs?
THE INTERPRETER: She can't remember the year at all.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Do you remember what the English name was of the
Gyedimgaldo'o that went to Ottawa?
A James White. At this time James White was not
Gyedimgaldo'o because Gyedimgaldo'o at that time was a
authority, who was next in line. Gyedimgaldo'o lived in
that house we identified.
Q The longhouse identified in the photograph?
A That was old Gyedimgaldo'o.
Q What was the name of the old Gyedimgaldo'o at that time?
THE INTERPRETER: No, she doesn't know.
THE WITNESS: At that time we just used Gitksan names.
MR. RUSH: I see.
Q That Gyedimgaldo'o, did he authorize James White to go
on his behalf?
A Yes.
OFF THE RECORD
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Was James White the successor to the Gyedimgaldo'o name?
THE INTERPRETER: Your question was "Was James White the
successor"?
MR. RUSH: Did James White take the name
35
STERRITT, J.
In Chief
Mr. Rush
VIOLET SMITH,
Gitksan Interpreter,
Previously Sworn
JESSIE STERRITT
Witness called on behalf of the
Plaintiffs, Previously Sworn,
testifies, as follows:
BY MR. RUSH:
Q The first question I would like to ask you this morning
is again about Daniel Skawil, and I wanted to ask you if
Daniel Skawil was related to you?
A Yes, he must be related to me because he passed on the
information about the territory to me.
Q That is what I wanted to ask you, Jessie. When did
Daniel Skawil pass that information to you, do you
remember?
A As far as I can remember when he thought I was old
enough to know about the information he just continually
talked about it to me.
THE INTERPRETER: And whenever her auntie had to go somewhere
she would stay with Daniel Skawil.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Daniel Skawil was born in the 1800's, wasn't he?
A I can't say.
Q Can you say about when it was when Daniel Skawil died?
A I think it was in the thirties but I do have letters
with dates that his foster children wrote when they
wrote to me but they are -- the letters are in Terrace.
Q This would be the 1930's, would it?
A Not too sure just when, late thirties....
THE INTERPRETER: She's just not sure.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q At the time that Daniel Skawil died did he pass his name
on to someone?
A No, the name wasn't passed on to anybody all these
years. It was just at a feast that I had lately that
we've given them to people of the House.
Q I would like to ask you about Nikat' een?
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STERRITT, J.
In Chief
Mr. Rush
A Okay.
Q Is Nikat'een from Gitanmaaxs?
THE INTERPRETER: As far as she knows that he is where he is
from.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q What p'tekt is Nikat'een from?
A Lax Seel. Frog.
Q What wilp is Nikat'een from?
A The House of Nikat'een.
Q Is the House of 'Wiigoob'l close to the House of
Nikat'een?
A I don't even remember if he had House here.
THE INTERPRETER: She's referring to the longhouses.
MR. RUSH: Okay.
THE INTERPRETER: She really does not know how to answer that
question.
MR. RUSH: Perhaps I can ask it a different way.
Q At the feast hall when the Wolf p'tekt held a feast in
Gitanmaaxs where did Nikat'een sit?
A Nikat' een sit sits on my left.
Q On the left side of 'Wiigoob'l?
A Yes.'Wiigoob'l.
Who sits on the right side of 'Wiigoob'l?
A Ts'ogoshle.
Q Perhaps I can just pause here and ask you the seating at
the feast hall in Gitanmaaxs and the question I would
like to ask you, when there is a feast at Gitanmaaxs
hosted by the Wolf Clan can you tell me where the people
sit at the feast?
Now, you have told me that Nikat' een sits to the
left of yourself?
A Yes.
Q Who sits to the left of Nikat' een?
A A'yawasxw sits on the left of Nikat'een.
Q Who sits to the left of A'yawasxw?
A Because our people sometimes where you're at right now
is a little bit....
THE INTERPRETER: At our feast she really can't say who sits
there.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Again, who sits on the right of 'Wiigoob'l at the
feast? Can you tell me who sits to the right along that
side of the feast table?
A Gyedimgaldo'o sits on the right of Ts'ogoshle.
Q Ts'ogoshle?
38
STERRITT, J.
In Chief
Mr. Rush
A Walter Wilson.
Q To Walter Wilson's right would be Gyedimgaldo'o?
A Yes.
Q Who Would be to Gyedimgaldo'o's right?
A Axtits'eix, Bruce Johnson.
Q Who sits to the right of Bruce Johnson?
THE INTERPRETER: His English name is Joshua Campbell and she
can't think of his Gitksan name right now.
MR. RUSH: Okay. We can
THE WITNESS: Xwtsimxwts'iin is the name.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Xwtsimxwts'iin is Joshua Campbell's Gitksan name?
A Yes.
Q All right. Is there any person that sits to the right
of Joshua Campbell at the feast hall?
A Lutkutsiiwus, Ben McKenzie.
Q Thank you for giving us that. Let me just go back for a
moment to what you told us yesterday conncerning the
names that you took as a child. I wanted to ask you if
when you were given the name, I think you said
Ksiiguuxt, was there a feast when you were given that
name?
THE INTERPRETER: The child name?
MR. RUSH: That is the child name.
THE INTERPRETER: She was very small, she doesn't remember but
there has to be a feast when we receive a name.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q That is the normal practice, is it?
THE INTERPRETER: That is the normal practice, yes
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Is that the law?
THE INTERPRETER: That is one of our rules, yes.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Can you just tell me - - would you say the name again you
were given as a child, : want to be sure I have it
right? Ksiiguuxt?
A Ksiiguuxt.
Q Now, yesterday you told us that you received the name of
Axti'am, which was your first adult name, is that right?
A Yes, that was my first adult name.
Q And the adult name is called in Gitksan wamgyet?
A Yes, that's right.
Q Do you remember how old you were when you received your
39
STERRITT, J.
In Chief
Mr. Rush
first wamgyet?
THE INTERPRETER: She thought she mentioned it yesterday.
THE WITNESS: It was when Ernest Wade died that I got the
name.
MR. PLANT: She did mention it yesterday.
MR. RUSH: That' s good.
Q What is the English meaning of Axti'am?
A Not good.
THE INTERPRETER: That is the best I can come up with.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Yesterday the other wamgyet is A'yawasxw -- I'm
mispronouncing it
A A'yawasxw.
Q can you tell us what the English meaning of that
name is please?
A Not hiding anything. Not hiding anything.
Q Now, I wanted to ask you if there was -- is there a mask
that goes with your name?
A There were many things like a mask that belonged to our
House and, as I told you the other day, they were sold
by a person....
THE INTERPRETER: She doesn't know about the mask going with
her name.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Can you tell us how the many things that you described
were sold? Can you tell us who did that?
A When Gyedimgaldo'o who was Tommy Muldoos'(?) father died
all the regalia that went with the name were taken by
Charlie Oop, who was a member of his House, and when he
died his son, Sam Oop, had them and sold them.
Q Who did he sell them to?
A He sold them to a man, Mr. Gow, who was the CN station
agent at South Hazelton.
Q Do you remember how old you were when that happened?
THE INTERPRETER: She can't remember the exact time but either
the late twenties or early thirties.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Can you tell me when the artifacts were sold to Mr. Gow
were the members of your Wilp upset about this?
A They were very upset about it.
Q Are there any of the regalia of the House of
Gyedimgaldo'o that are still -- that weren't sold to Mr.
Gow and are still in Gitanmaaxs?
A There's only the button blanket, the amhalayt, and
40
STERRITT, J.
In Chief
Mr. Rush
they're presently in the museum down at Gitksan, and
there's a rattle that belongs to him that is in the
possession of another person.
Q I am going to come back and ask you about that a little
later but I want to show you some photographs, but I
would like to ask you now about something that is a
little different and that is whether or not you have
ever been present and see Naxnox performed in regalia?
A I remember when James Robinson had a feast we call
Galuuhlim and Naxnox peformed.
Q You were present at this feast, can you tell us what
happened at the feast?
A I was an observer and it happened up at the hall that
was up on the hill here before it burnt down.
Q Yes?
A I cannot say what year it was.
THE INTERPRETER: As an observer at the halayt, danced in
front of all the guests.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Was he wearing anything special?
A Yes, his regalia.
Q What did he do? What did the halayt do?
A No, from what I could see he just danced around in front
of the people.
Q Was this when -- was James Robinson becoming a halayt at
this feast?
A The feast Galuuhlim is when you elevate yourself, your
name.
Q Yes?
A That was what the feast was about, he was elevating his
name.
Q Yes. Now, before the feast started was James Robertson
required to do anything and did he do anything before
the feast?
A Galuuhlim is too when a person is ready for more
authority.
Q Yes?
A And more power.
MR. PLANT: You have said Robertson and Robinson.
THE WITNESS: Robinson.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q The name was James Robinson?
A Right.
Q Before the feast did James Robinson go away for a while?
Did he do anything particular before the feast began?
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Mr. Rush
A Yes, he went out into the woods. It is a requirement in
our culture before you become halayt. He went out and
spent days fasting, did all the rituals that go with
whatever he had to do, and then when he came back
there's a Gitksan term, when he comes back they use
pii'an.
THE INTERPRETER: I don't really know how to say this in
English. It would seem that they didn't know when he
was coming back, he only came back when he was ready.
Oh, she says there are a definite number of days
that they have to spend out in the woods and the village
is aware when he will be back and this is the term they
use on the day that he comes back.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q When he comes back what happens?
A The village is ready with the feast and that is when he
performs his role as halayt.
Q When he performs his role as halayt does he obtain
anything at the feast? Anything special at the feast?
THE INTERPRETER: In what way?
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Does he wear any regalia or anything that he wears
around his body?
THE INTERPRETER: From what she observed he came in with a
bear skin as a robe and he had wreaths around his neck.
When it was put on she can't say.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Do you remember how many wreaths he had around his neck?
THE INTERPRETER: She cannot remember the exact number but
knows that he had some around his neck.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q The feast that was held was that a big feast that was
held?
A Yes.
Q If a person choses to become halayt is there any
particular age at which the person becomes a halayt?
A They could be quite young when they....
OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION IN GITKSAN
THE WITNESS: About adult, when they become adults they could
be halayts.
42
STERRITT, J.
In Chief
Mr. Rush
BY MR. RUSH:
Q NOW, at the feast where James Robinson was halayt, was
there Naxnox performed?
OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION IN GITKSAN
BY MR. RUSH:
Q What was the sound that was made when the string was
pulled by Gyedimgaldo'o'?
A It was the sound that the ptarmigan makes, the white
grouse.
Q Do you remember who was the Gyedimgaldo' o that performed
this Naxnox?
OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION IN GITKSAN
BY MR. RUSH:
Q ....before tables, yes?
A He said in the front. There's usually two or three
rows.
THE INTERPRETER: She was not quite sure which, whether it was
second or third row that he sat in.
BY MR. RUSH:
Q When you say "in front", you mean in front of
Gyedimgaldo'o?
A Not in the seat in front of him but in that row.
Q In the row in front of him?
A Yes.
MR. RUSH: I see.
Q Now, does Nikat' een sit to 'Wiigoob'l's left at the
feast hall today?
A Yes. That is as far back as I can remember, he has
always been there.
Q Was there a successor or possible successor to
Nikat' een' s name that sat in front of Nikat' een?
A Yes, that is our law, that is where they sit.
Q When the tables were introduced and have been used at
the feast hall can you think of any problem that came
about when the people went there how the feast seating
was done in the old days to the present when tables were
used?
OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION IN GITKSAN
BY MR. RUSH:
Q The ada'ox for Gyedimgaldo'o, is that recorded some
place that you know about?
A I can't think right now if it has been taped or written
46
STERRITT, J.
In Chief
Mr. Rush
down anywhere.
Q Is some of the ada'ox on the totem pole for
Gyedimgaldo'o? Does it appear on the totem pole?
A Yes, it's on the pole but I really can't give you the
reading of it or whatever you call it. I know about the
three figures that are on, I can talk about that, the
frog and the half man.
Q Let me ask you about those. Are the ayuks or the crests
on the Gyedimgaldo'o pole?
A Yes, those are the crests of Gyedimgaldo'o that are on
the pole.
Q Can you tell us about those three ayuks?
A I can only tell you about the names of the crests.
Xbigiloon is three figures.
Q Yes?
A Sto'ogyet is the half man.
Q Yes?
A And the frog that are on there.
MR. RUSH: Okay.
THE INTERPRETER: The rest that are on there, she's not too
sure about them.
MR. RUSH: Okay.
THE INTERPRETER: There is another crest there that she
remembers somebody telling about the big fly.
THE WITNESS: (In English) Mosquito.
The story goes that it was a woman who turned into
a mosquito and she killed children. The legend goes
that wherever they would go somewhere this old woman
would be with the group and when they would camp and go
to sleep the legend goes that she would suck the blood
out of the children and they would die. Eventually
people realized that there was something peculiar going
on. They gathered wood and they were going to make a
big fire and they intended to burn this woman. They
burnt her and before that lady burned she told them that
even her spirit would forever pester them. That's the
mosquito today. End of the legend.
MR. PLANT: I'll tell my wife that the next time I go on a
camping trip!
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Do you know who told you this story?
A The elders in my House.
Q Is the House of 'Wiigoob'l or the House of
Gyedimgaldo'o?
A 'Wiigoob'1 and Gyedimgaldo'o.
Q Now, just to come back to the pole, the pole that you're
47
STERRITT, J.
In Chief
Mr. Rush
talking about, where is that standing now?
A It is presently beside the -- what is called the library
now that was previously the museum, that is why we
consented to put the pole there.
Q Does this pole still belong to the House of
Gyedimgaldo'o?
A Yes.
Q Now, was this pole carved during your lifetime?
A No, it was done before I was born.
Q Are you aware of who carved the pole?
A I was told it was a person from the Nass River.
Q Who was that person?
A Niiyesmuut.
Q Who was Niiyesmuut married to?
A Niiyesmuut was married to Noxs Ganii, one of my aunts.
Q Was Niiyesmuut hired to carve the pole by the House of
Gyedimgaldo'o?
A Yes, he was hired because it was considered one of the
experts at that time.
Q Do you know what Clan or p'tekt Niiyesmuut was from in
the Nass?
A Lax Gibuu, Wolf Clan.
Q Are they related to the Wolf Clan of the Gitksan people?
A Like any other culture it is through marriage that they
become related.
Q It was the relationship through Noxs Ganii that there
was the relationship?
A Yes.
Q Now, do you know of any other poles of the House of
Gyedimgaldo'o?
A My memory goes back that this is the second pole. The
other one had deteriorated and had fallen over and they
made this one that is presently at the library.
Q I want to show you a photograph of a pole and ask you if
this is the one that had fallen over?
Do we have a copy of a copy of the original?
MR. PLANT: I take it you don't have the negatives?
MR. RUSH: I don't think so. No. These photographs are from
the National Museum. Is this the only photograph that
we have or is there a copy of this one?
OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION
BY MR. RUSH:
Q Jessie, I just want to ask you. . . .
THE INTERPRETER: You want to compare it?
MR. RUSH: Yes.
Q When you look at the photograph here and the photocopy
are they one and the same? Does the photocopy show the
same as the photograph?
A Yes, they are the same.
MR. RUSH: That's fine. This is just technical legal stuff
that we have to do. Let's mark the photocopy as Exhibit
No. 2, that is a photocopy of the photograph from the
National Museum of Canada, negative number 70371.
50
STERRITT, J.
In Chief
Mr. Rush
BY MR. RUSH:
Q I have one more photograph that I would like to show you
and I wonder if you can just identify the pole again?
A It is the same pole.
Q Is that the way the pole looked when you were younger at
that place?
A Yes.
Q Whose Wilp is that in the background? Whose longhouse
is that in the background?
A The House of Gyedimgaldo'o'.
Q It appears as though the pole is standing directly in
front of the House of Gyedimgaldo'o', is that the way it
stood as you remember it?
A Yes.
53
STERRITT, J.
In Chief
Mr. Rush