Creating

Emerging Markets – Oral History Collection

Dr. Prathap Reddy, Founder and Chairperson, Apollo Hospitals

Interviewed by Tarun Khanna, Professor, Harvard Business School
April 29, 2014 in Mumbai, India
Video interview conducted in English

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India, April 29, 2014, Creating Emerging Markets Oral History Collection, Baker Library
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Interview with Dr. Prathap Reddy

Interviewed by Tarun Khanna

April 29, 2014

Mumbai, India

Video interview conducted in English

TK: I’d like to collectively reflect with you on the long trajectory of your

illustrious career bringing healthcare to the people of India, increasingly to

other parts of the world, and being a role model for a number of others. If

we could start at the beginning and you could perhaps describe what made

you transition from being, I would imagine, a comfortable cardiologist in

my backwoods in Boston, to somehow being at the helm of this illustrious

enterprise here?

PR: Thank you. I must thank my parents for giving me the luxury of

being a college student and then a medical student, then allowing me to go

to the U.K. and the U.S. I think that made a big difference—being in the

U.K. for a short time and in the U.S. for over 9 years. I was in Springfield,

Missouri. I had the privilege of working at Mass[achusetts] General

[Hospital] for a year and specializing in cardiology. I then moved to

Springfield. While I was there, whatever I did, whether I presented papers

or some other things, I used to write to my parents and boast about it. I

2 Creating Emerging Markets

would also write about the children. My father loved cars, so whenever we

bought a nice car, I would put my daughters in it, and send [him a picture of

it]. I thought I’ll get a lovely letter saying how wonderful the car is, how

happy his son and his family is, but, instead, I got a letter which just stated

that whatever you do, there are two people who are happy about it. But if

you did something so that other people back at home got the benefit, how

would that be? He didn’t say come back. But I looked at my wife and she

also said we must go back. I had four daughters, they were in no stage to

protest because their ages were between 7 and 12 and they were nice girls.

So we came back and I started my practice as a cardiologist. It took

time; there were many, including my professor of medicine, who was very

fond of me here and even visited me in the States, who told me, “Dr.

Reddy, you go back, you made a big mistake, you wouldn’t make even 100

rupees here. Go back.” I said, “I didn’t come here for making 100 rupees.

This is just a father’s wish.” In any case, I started to practice as a

cardiologist and gradually, not only from the city and the state, I started to

get a number of patients from all over the country. I think I established a

fairly good cardiology practice in a small, private nursing home. But as a

cardiologist, we had our own limitations. When the patient continued to

have symptoms or progression of the disease, the next option that was

available was coronary bypass surgery. Unfortunately in the country, it was

available in one or two institutions but the results were not acceptable. So, I

used to send my patients mostly to Dr. Denton Cooley, who is my Guru in

many, many ways. I am proud to say that he is my Guru and he accepts me.

3 Reddy Interview

But in December1979, I lost a young man. He should have had his

surgery in October with Dr. Denton Cooley, and you know why he didn’t

have it? Because he couldn’t raise the $50,000! I lost him and I saw his

wife and the two children, [sitting] all paralyzed next to him. She was only

31 years old and she had a four-year-old daughter and a two-year-old son. I

thought to myself, “How many more are going to lose their dear ones and

why should they? Why can’t we do this here?” In any case, when I talked to

people, everybody said: You made the first big mistake by coming back

from the U.S., and now you are thinking of creating a hospital. This is

impossible, just leave it. If you want to, expand this present place and add

more beds, there’s a place next door to you, buy that place and build

another 50 beds.

TK: So, what was the vision at that time?

PR: To build a hospital which would provide the same level of care—at

that time it was for cardiac patients—but later on as my vision evolved, [I

thought the] heart is only part of the body, so I said, a hospital must be

created which would provide care that was not available for our people. So,

we formed [the Apollo group]. You met my daughter Suneeta who was

searching for a name—Sushruta, Ashwani, all of these. Suddenly she said,

“Daddy, how about Apollo?” Now, she always jokes about things. I told

her, “Come on, don’t be childish, we are serious, we need a name for this.”

She said, “This is Apollo (the Greek God of healing).” So, anyway I

4 Creating Emerging Markets

accepted the name and registered it. Then we went and started talking to

people. First they said, you can’t buy land for a hospital—three acres of

land, four acres of land; there is a Land Ceiling Act; hospitals are not

eligible for it. It took me two years to crack that. At the time, hospitals were

not eligible for funding and medical equipment was charged as a luxury

item—at 375%. I found my way to meet the great lady then, whatever she

was called—Iron lady, then Prime Minister of India, to whom I am very

grateful. I told her—I said, “Madam, this is what’s happening, there are

only two kinds of people who can get care in India, they are the powerful

and the rich guys. The powerful person gets a free Air India ticket and our

mission pays for it.”

TK: So, this is Prime Minister Mrs. Indira Gandhi.

PR: Prime Minister Indira Gandhi.

TK: And how did you get access to her at the time?

PR: I think there were a number of people. As I recall, the most

important, I think was Mr. [G.K.] Moopanar, who was the President of the

[Tamil Nadu] State Congress Unit. He took me to the Prime Minister; later

on I used to go with some of the other Congress General Secretaries; but

she liked the idea because that was a time when she was thinking about the

reversal of brain drain. She used to talk very often about it.

5 Reddy Interview

TK: So, we are in 1982.

PR: 1982. There were many things—first, of course, the Land Ceiling

Act was with the local Chief Minister. He gave me a lot of problems. It

took me almost 18 months to get the land clearance; to put the building and

then to get the customs duty exemption for the medical equipment. When I

told her [Mrs. Gandhi], you wouldn’t believe, it happened in 5 days. I don’t

know if any government works like that—she called the secretary, Krishna

Rao [C.R. Krishnaswamy Rao was Cabinet Secretary in 1982], Principal

Secretary to the Prime Minister, and said, “We must listen to him. Why

shouldn’t we have hospitals like this? Why shouldn’t we develop and invite

our own Indians back to work and create such facilities back home?” He

then called the Health Secretary. By Friday the Act was passed that

facilitated the [customs duty] exemption to zero, provided we also treated

some free patients. So that was the first obstacle. Second was that hospitals

were not allowed any funding; they were not allowed to register as a

company. When I applied for that permission saying I want to register a

company and that I would like to list it, by that time the Prime Minister had

changed. The [next] Prime Minister saw that and said, “What? A hospital as

a corporation raising money?”

TK: Who was the prime minister?

6 Creating Emerging Markets

PR: The Prime Minister then was Charan Singh. I had to wait for her

[Mrs. Indira Gandhi] to come back. President Pranab Mukherjee was then

the Finance Minister of India [who, influenced by his personal conviction

and the PM’s steadfast endorsement of the concept, got the ball rolling.] As

a special case, Apollo hospital was enabled to borrow 50 percent from the

bank and 50 percent as foreign exchange loan for import of medical

equipment.

TK: So, this was effectively a mandate to the state banks.

PR: For state-owned banks to give that loan. Then, of course, I had to

run around to get the banks to accept it. The present Prime Minister [Dr.

Manmohan Singh was Prime Minister when the interview was conducted]

was then the Reserve Bank Governor. I went to him, but there too, I had

some problems because of a new Deputy Governor, who had come in. First

he said, “Why should I allow a 360 degree turn to give you this

permission?” I said, “That’s what I have been told. I never got this credit

authorization from the banks. Please allow me because labor needs to be

paid.” It was already June 12. By the 15th, If I didn’t pay, the whole project

would get delayed. I went back and at the airport I met the Minister for

Civil Aviation. He also was very fond of us. He said, “What happened?

You are looking not so good.” I said, “What to do, after all of this, I go

back, and this man says, no, and the Governor says, ‘I can’t do anything

about it,’ so I must meet the Finance Minister again.” So, we went at 10

7 Reddy Interview

o’clock at night and I spoke to him. The next day was Saturday and he was

going away for two weeks. He said, “You want it to happen by 12 o’clock

tomorrow? You go back; go and catch your flight and go back to Bombay.”

I went back. The same Deputy Governor said, “You know why I am doing

it?” I said, “I know it, Sir.” So, anyway, we got the thing [done] and

finances happened. Then to list it, I went to Bombay and talked to a few

investment bankers, they all said, “It’s crazy, how can a hospital be listed

and how do we trade it?”

TK: This was after the hospital was up?

PR: After the permission. One of them suddenly said, “Dr. Reddy, I’ll

come and see your place, show it to me.” I said, “When can you come?” He

said, “I’ll come the day after tomorrow.” I said, “Please come after I’ve

stopped my practice—7 o’clock…7:30, we could meet and spend some

time.” He saw the whole thing and said, “I’ll underwrite the whole thing.”

That’s how the first issue was subscribed.

TK: And when was this?

PR: This was in 1982, December. I got that money and on September

18th, 1983, our President inaugurated it. There again, I went to the Prime

Minister to ask her to inaugurate; she laughed and said, “Everybody here

thinks that I have done a lot for you. Why don’t you go and ask the

8 Creating Emerging Markets

President to do this—inaugurate.” I thought, look at this, I don’t know the

President, how can I go and meet him. But she had said it and there was no

other way, so I was going to try, whether the President accepted it or not. I

went to the President’s house and the secretary said, “Do you know the

President?” I said, “I don’t know him. Not only that I don’t know him, I

have a problem, you know—I can’t speak Hindi and I understand that his

understanding of English also is not… so we have that problem, too.” So,

he said, “All right, I’ll go and tell him.” He went to him and explained. He

[The President] said, “Achhakartahoon [Fine, I’ll do it].” I think that was

the end of the beginning when he inaugurated on September 18th—the end

of the beginning of the project problems.

From then on, we created the sense of ownership in everybody,

involvement in everyone, what we call: care, compassion, and commitment.

We called it TLC—Tender Loving Care. I still remember there were about

840 of them in the auditorium when I first talked to them. I told them: “You

all come from different sects, religions, backgrounds of studies, different

states…but here we are all one—one of power. We have people who walk

in here, walk in with the hope that we can do. But we can do it, provided all

of us work as a team. So I don’t want to call you as a team provided we all

work as one family.” That’s how we created that Apollo family spirit.

Thanks to God that the family bonding has increased day after day and year

after year. The first big heart surgery we did was on a child to close the

hole. That was a big celebration. I think, from then on we never looked

back.

9 Reddy Interview

TK: So, when you reflect on these many decades, after the initial trials

and tribulations of getting started and running pillar to post amongst the

influential people in Delhi and elsewhere, what are some of the key

learning moments for you that come to mind, either positive or negative

that in retrospect you feel shifted the Apollo journey?

PR: I think, I cannot put words to say how difficult or how impossible it

was—the bureaucracy. I think India learnt two things from the British—the

language and the bureaucracy; in both we’re excellent. Believe me, I used

to go every Thursday evening to Delhi from Chennai; come back on a

Sunday morning, week after week, meet 10, 12, 15 babus [bureaucrats]

each time; then meet some of the ministers. To get each one of these [to

agree] to import the medical equipment, 360 [kinds of] equipment, I had to

make 12 applications and please 12 of them; first from the state

government, and then similarly in everything else, like I told you with the

banking, even after getting the permissions... I went through a lot but I

never gave up, because I wanted to do this, not for myself but for my

patients. I would have lost so many patients. It’s not that everybody who

came to me with a heart problem, we could save; but the one in particular,

if he had had a surgery, he probably would have lived longer. And he was

young—38 years old.

10 Creating Emerging Markets

TK: So, as you developed your reputation for success and people could

see that there was a lot of progress that was being made and it was good

for the country and good for society, did you find that these barriers began

to disappear or did they pretty much stay the same?

PR: I think whatever happened at that time was given just for that one

hospital. The special permissions that were given, were given just to Apollo

Hospitals in Chennai—at that time it was called Madras. There’s another

hospital that had come up, that was the Modi Hospital—when they applied,

they said, no, no, that permission was given as a special case for the Apollo

Hospitals in Chennai. After we started, people from all over the country

used to come for many ailments and whatever ailment it was, I think we

gave them the best possible care that was available anywhere in the world.

This has been our intention, that if anybody can do anything anywhere in

the world, we can do it and we can do it better. That was our goal from day

one and I think we did it. The next big thing that ever happened to

healthcare was the beginning of Apollo Chennai. Whatever Mrs. Gandhi

did, if today’s healthcare is what we see it is today, we owe it to one man,

that is Shri Rajiv Gandhi, former Prime Minister of India. I went first to

him to pay my condolences, six months after his mother passed, saying, “I

just couldn’t come and see you [earlier]. But for her, this Apollo wouldn’t

have been.” He said, “If you felt like that, how do you think I would have

felt as a son?” Anyway, he said, “Come back, I would like to talk to you

because there are a number of people whom you have treated, who speak so

11 Reddy Interview

well of the hospital.” So he called me back. Then, one day, I got a call

saying that you have been appointed as the director of the Indian Airlines. I

said, “There is no way I could accept. How could I waste so much time on

that?” They said, “No, no, this is the Prime Minister’s order.” I said, “I’ll

see him.” So I went and told him, “Sir, how can I?” First, he said, “Cut out

that sir.” I said, “How can I sit for one-and-a-half to two days for an airlines

board for which I have no connection?” He said, “I want only one thing—I

understand the care and compassion that you all talk about—the TLC; I

want that to get into the airlines, especially for the air hostesses, for the

ground staff. Please do only that.” You can’t do anything, when the Prime

Minister tells you to do something. So I became a director and we

established a training center in Hyderabad. He came to inaugurate that and I

used to meet him. One day—this is shortly before the budget—I went to

him and said, “Sir I wrote a letter first—I wish I had set up a beedi [a

tobacco product similar to cigarettes] factory or a beer factory, instead of

healthcare. If health has to come along with your vision of the 21st century,

we need the following: First, is that hospitals should be funded like any

other trade and industry. Second, health insurance and health plans should

be facilitated by the government; and the third, if somebody gets paid by

his company for healthcare, the tax people include that in his income. So,

the guy gets a second heart attack.” He called me and said, “Is this the way

you write to a Prime Minister?” I said “Rajiv-ji,”—he told me I should not

call him sir—so I said, “Rajiv-ji, I was told that you won’t read long

letters.” Anyway, he said, “We’ll see what best can be done.” On the 18th

12 Creating Emerging Markets

of May, I got a call saying the PM—he was also the finance minister

then—is presenting your thing tomorrow in Parliament. “Would you like to

come?” I said, “How can I not come?” So I went there that night. Next

morning at 1 o’ clock I got a slip saying the PM wants you to join him for

lunch. I am still recollecting what he gave in that plate. I was so happy that

such a thing had happened. I said again—“Thank you… thank you…thank

you, Sir.” “I told you, Sir, cut the sir,” he said. I said, “Thank you Rajiv-ji,

thank you.”

TK: What did he approve?

PR: That hospitals could be funded like the others. The Act was passed

and the first hospital that got that funding was our hospital in Hyderabad.

ICICI came forward and within four weeks, they assigned to fund our

hospital in Hyderabad. The second issue was insurance. He wrote 100

(rupees) and looked at me; 1000 (rupees), looked at me, no response; put

another zero, 10,000 (rupees)... it was good for us to start... as an exemption

from tax. I said, “Thank you, sir.” That “sir” comes, you know, anyway.

TK: So, if a patient received 10,000 rupees worth of treatment that

would not be…?

PR: No, if you bought insurance or health plans for 10,000 [rupees], it

was exempt from tax. Now after so many years, that 10,000 [rupees] has

13 Reddy Interview

become 15,000 [rupees]. For the third one, he asked what the issue was? I

told him, if somebody got a treatment and it was treated as income, then the

person got a second heart attack. He just changed it with [a stroke of] the

pen. These were the three big boons. If today you see hundreds of hospitals

and clinics across the country; if you have an ultrasound in the village, this

one man is responsible for it: Rajiv-ji. I think that’s what changed the

healthcare of India—it was the year 1986. Before this, government

hospitals were in no position to buy medical equipment, maintain it, and

give the type of care that people needed.

Today, it’s not just Apollo, there are at least 500 hospitals which do

heart surgery. We are happy last year we completed 150,000 surgeries.

What makes me really more happy is this: When we started, we sat down

and said what should it cost: Overseas, it costs $50,000–$60,000; what

should we charge? The finance people, the surgeons, everybody [present]

there said, “We’ll charge 3,000 dollars. The hospital will take 2,400 dollars

and the doctors will take 600 dollars.” So we agreed. You know what it

costs after 30 years? Two thousand dollars! That’s because of our

continuously improving care and improving medical outcomes. From 90

percent, our success rate has gone up to 99 percent and the cost has come

down. Not that inflation has not hit us. Our inflation is 180 times. Our cost

would have been over $70,000–$80,000, but for our continuous innovations

at improving the care and reducing the burden. For example, we do 95

percent beating heart surgeries. We give a single shot of antibiotic, you

know, instead of pumping with antibiotics. The surgeons didn’t want to

14 Creating Emerging Markets

take any risks, saying that it would be their fault. So we improved the

antibiotic policy by controlling first the infection to almost what’s called

the zero infection rate. Patients get just one shot half an hour before

surgery, howsoever major the surgery is. Then in 2013, we did the world’s

largest number of solid organ transplants—kidney, heart, and liver

transplants. We overtook the number-one hospital in the world. It’s not just

the numbers; our outcomes are better; our costs are 10 percent. It’s not just

$600,000, it’s not even $60,000, we are doing a liver transplant for about

$40,000. I think the entire vision is being translated as everybody’s—part

of the ongoing vision of a family. The moment they come to our hospital,

they believe that there’s something more they can do than what they did

yesterday.

TK: Its striking how your description of your back and forth with Prime

Minister Indira Gandhi, then Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi, led to their

becoming aware of some of the needs and acting because they presumably

had some confidence in you. It’s striking that of all the other doctors in the

country, the surgeons of the country, that nobody else thought that these

were some of the barriers that needed to be circumvented. What is it that

made you stick with running from pillar to post from Chennai to Delhi

every weekend?

PR: I wish I could explain this—what drove me was the need—if we

want to relaunch Apollo—that means we want to relaunch the healthcare of

15 Reddy Interview

the country…The simple truth is that we all need to realize that there is

something within us, that tells us, we can do whatever we think should be

done. In my thing, I call it as 3 Ps. First, Purity in thought, Patience, and in

India you need Persistence. If you have all these 3, you will not fail,

provided your first P is right. So, I think this is where, all of us, if you keep

that focus, that’s what we did. I didn’t leave it with Rajiv Gandhi there.

Year after year, I have represented various governments, either

through CII [Confederation of Indian Industry], FICCI [Federation of

Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry], ASSOCHAM [Associated

Chambers of Commerce and Industry of India], IMA [Indian Medical

Association], all of them, work for healthcare through whatever

representation that we give. We had a few things done—like Pranab

Mukherjee, he gave me steel to build that hospital and then he gave the

finance. The last gift he gave was—I remember he said, “How late can I

meet you?” I said, “Sir, I could go back to bed at 10:30.”He said, “All right,

come at 10:30 and I’ll give it to you at exactly10:30.” He came at 10:45,

had a cabinet meeting and the last gift he gave was the preventive check-

ups 5,000 [rupees] exemption.

TK: Dr. Reddy, it strikes me that you had so much running around from

pillar to post to convince Prime Minister Indira Gandhi and then her son

Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi…

PR: Then the further governments.

16 Creating Emerging Markets

TK: And the further governments work with you to change the

regulations but these regulations could have been changed by any aware

physician or surgeon in the country, one would imagine, of course with the

benefit of hindsight. What is it that prompted you to focus on this as

opposed to others?

PR: I wish I could give a clear answer—I think the inner call… the inner

call, you know… when there are so many times you feel, oh, I wish I could

have done this and I should not stop there. Then if you think that’s a good

thing and that we should do this…it’s one of those. There are many things

that I did not do. As a cardiologist, having seen that you helped many

people, but there are some others, like that young man, leaving [behind]

those two [children]. I felt so miserable, and said to myself, “Doctor,

somebody who came to you, he’s been lost.” So that is where I think such a

thing is within all of us. When you have that feeling, saying you must do

something about it, you need to bring that change; that is where I think, was

the first [P of Purity]. How you do that, is what I said about the other 2 Ps.

You need patience because you need to work with a number of people—in

this case, a number of government officials; then the ministers; then the

Prime Ministers and so on and so forth and finally the patients because

that’s our habit [commitment]. But in any case, I think there are so many

people who have done so many wonderful things—it’s not just me. It so

happened that it struck me then that there was something which was very

17 Reddy Interview

valuable to life, which was not available for our people and I thought we

should do this. I experienced it when I was a cardiologist in the U.S. and

when I came back here and saw this, I said we must change it. I am glad

we did change and changed the healthcare in the country.

TK: So, I find the 3 Ps very instructive—Purity, Patience, and

Persistence as a way of navigating challenges in many developing

countries. Of course, the persistence advice to excessively bureaucratic

countries like the India of 1987. I want to focus on the Purity part for a

second. A lot of our students complain about potential downsides of the

corporatization of healthcare and certainly if you look at the Indian

environment of last 10 to 15 years, there are a slew of private hospitals that

have popped up and one is always struck about how they balance potential

profit with patient care, profit with clinical excellence. Can you reflect on

your observations at the industry level and how this has changed over the

last 10 to 15 years?

PR: Well, I cannot deny what you said. Of all those who started

hospitals with a good intention, saying that they would provide the care that

was not available for our people, some have deviated. They have deviated

because they put importance on returns for themselves, rather than on

returns for the patients. So what is necessary in healthcare is [the intention]

Vaidya Narayana Hari (The Divine Doctor)—that it’s always a sacred thing

to help another person. I think as long as we keep this goal—there are a

18 Creating Emerging Markets

few people who do this. Unfortunately, sometimes I think media over

exaggerates this. Tell me another profession where a doctor gets up at 3

o’clock in the morning, risks a life or manages a delivery at 4:30 in the

morning? Or an accident takes place and four surgeons, an orthopedic

surgeon, a neurosurgeon, a general surgeon, an anesthetist, nurses, all of

them go? Which other profession does this? Only healthcare. But,

unfortunately this is not reflected. The only thing that is highlighted is the

one wrong person doing it. We accept that’s wrong; we should condemn it

as all of us must condemn it, saying that you are in a profession here to do

good for them. You must be able to give the very best possible to a person

who walks in to you. I think it’s a few people who are spoiling the entire

good that is being created in healing people. We should go back to our

ancient history where they did [good] and took no returns at all.

TK: It’s an appropriate balance, that’s a good corrective that you are

showing that healthcare—of course to me along with education, I would

hope—is a sacred profession in many ways and it’s an appropriate

reminder of that, so thank you. Could we reflect a little bit about some of

the changing healthcare needs in the country, decades ahead?

PR: I think, we felt very comfortable that we were treating heart diseases

very well and almost all diseases with technology that was being developed

in the West. Of course, I think to a large extent, we must say, if we are able

to give this cost benefit to our people, it’s not only by bringing that

19 Reddy Interview

technology, but certainly by innovating in several ways, so that the cost was

reasonable. The situation now has changed in a way which is beyond the

doctor. If you look at the disease pattern in the 20th and the 21st centuries,

in the first decade itself there was a predominance of a new order of health

problems. Now, it’s called noncommunicable diseases: diabetes, heart

disease, cancer, infections… and India has got the [unfortunate distinction]

of becoming the diabetic capital of the world, heart [disease] capital of the

world, cancer capital of the world, and infectious diseases capital of the

world. I don’t want the gold medals; I wish I could throw them all in the

Bay of Bengal or go farther and throw them in the Indian Ocean. But, I

think, this is a reality today and the World Economic Forum has focused on

it and said that the world is to spend 30 trillion dollars to treat these

disorders alone and India’s burden is one-sixth. Unfortunately, a greater

portion of that is falling on the emerging or the underdeveloped economies.

For me, it’s not just the money. You know, healthcare is not about money,

it is about life, it’s about people. Through NCDs [noncommunicable

diseases] they estimate there’ll be 36 million deaths per year. That means

one country will be washed away! Or two large cities in India, that have a

population equivalent to 36 million! And this is happening: For that one

family, I lost that young man—for them the world ends. So, I think, it’s not

the expense of 8.6 trillion dollars that India has to face, but the burden of

losing people. People are the ones who are the contributors to your

economy. So, the economy also gets hit. So many times I have urged

governments to encourage healthcare. I told our Prime Minister, when they

20 Creating Emerging Markets

were at 8 percent [economic growth], if you want to turn to double digit

[growth], you should help healthcare grow and make the nation more

healthy and automatically they [people] will contribute. First, healthcare is

the largest employer in the world. Second, it keeps people healthy. And

healthy people contribute to the economy of the country. Often I have

pleaded for this. So, I think the NCDs are a huge problem.

We’ve been finding many ways to do what can we do. All what

we’ve done so far was to see how to treat them better. [The focus needs to

shift to managing them, and preventing them.] This was the genesis of

India’s first global healthcare conference of its kind that Apollo had

nurtured—the Future of Healthcare Conference, A Collective Vision. The

World Health Organization and Government of India’s Ministry of Health

and Family Welfare honored us with their participation. The Public Health

Foundation of India (PHFI) was the technical resource group and the

specially forged Healthcare Alliance had eight important industry bodies—

AIMA, CII, FICCI, GAPIO, IMA, MCI, NATHEALTH, and NSDC. It also

included four knowledge partners: Bain & Company, KPMG, McKinsey &

Company, and PwC. Thought leaders like Lord Nigel Crisp, Dr. Victor

Dzau, and several luminaries all worked together in drawing up the

blueprint for the future of Indian healthcare. The President said, it was such

a wonderful thing, to bring all of them together. It had never been done any

time before. He said, “I would welcome them to Rashtrapati Bhavan,

receive their recommendations for the government.” Suddenly, he changed

the date [for the inauguration] from April 7th to March 3rd.You know why?

21 Reddy Interview

Because of the elections. But nothing deterred us. They worked harder to

schedule it into the timeframe. These people who had many, many other

programs still said this was important to do. We prepared a paper called the

“Future of Health.” [The issues were] how do we mitigate these NCDs?

What are the steps that need to be taken and who should do what? What

should governments do by way of policies? What should the corporations

do to look after their people? What should the civil society do? And

finally—this is the thing that is very, very important—what should the

individual do? God has given us a great creation, if I am a believer in God.

[Even] those who really don’t believe in God, they say the creator has given

us a great creation, it is our duty to keep that well. Unless that happens, I

don’t think we’ll ever solve our health problems forever. So, this is how we

made these recommendations: One, countering the NCDs by assigning

responsibilities for all. The second—there is a lot of technology that’s

available—how can we upgrade technology and use it so that we can reach

the last man? People are not blaming Apollo for not doing great liver

transplants or heart transplants. What they are saying is you are not

reaching people who are living in the remote areas. So [it is about] the

access. Two things we have conquered: quality and cost. But the most

important—they call it an iron triangle: quality, cost—is also access.

I think we have to use technology to provide people greater

accessibility. The other thing which we’re very keen to upgrade are the

skills of people. So many times we feel people do not know that there is so

much more that they can do if only they [stayed] focused and learned a

22 Creating Emerging Markets

little more. This is where I think the four sections that we have taken in

Future of Health are very important. The President was very happy when he

received the recommendations. You know, even at the last minute, before

getting into the car, he said, “You all do your part, I will see that when the

next government comes, it assists you in the transformation and in bringing

this change for addressing the 21st-century healthcare challenges.” So, it

not only made me very happy but also made my commitment greater. We

are working with all the organizations now. The day after tomorrow I am

meeting a chairman of another huge medical manufacturer—one of the top

three companies. I am going to ask, “We’ll do what you want, what will

you do for this situation?” I think everybody must question themselves,

whoever is involved in healthcare and see what are the newer ways in

which we can address this issue and keep people healthy and happy.

Finally, I am one of those who believes that diseases have always

existed. [For instance] in our Puranas [ancient Indian texts], it’s all there—

they had diabetes, they had gout—one of the royal dynasty people had gout,

but all these diseases also had a cure. We are totally dependent now only on

Western medicine and we have abrogated all other systems of medicine.

It’s time now to relook at this. That is where I strongly believe we need to

be. I’ll mention only two things: in Chennai, before you go to Lord Balaji,

you come to a place called Puttur that is the world’s largest “fracture

factory,” they treat at least a 1,000 fractures a day. They do this by using

some leaves. Why aren’t we doing research? I have a personal experience: I

cracked my ribs, and the doctor said you can’t move for two weeks. This

23 Reddy Interview

guy applied something on the chest and I was normal. So, I think we need

to work on some of these wonderful things. It’s happening in China, and in

the U.S. In Los Angeles, they allowed medical marijuana for chronic

diseases, chronic pain, for some of children’s fits and other problems. I

think there’s a lot of wealth in this. We need to go back. I know of people

who have been cured of cancer by babas (holy men). They cut and then

applied something. I think we need to use that [knowledge] which has been

forgotten. There are a number of things in the Northeast (India). They say,

in [some of] those roots [found there], they have tremendous medicinal

value. Turmeric they say is a strong anti-carcinogenic. I think, we need to

dig that wealth back. Not that we should not do what we are doing now. I

think we can do better than that. What is our vision? Our vision is not just

using technology; our vision is to make people better. I think we can make

people healthier and happier by also adding this value.

Finally, my journey will continue in what we are doing in health. I

have another new vision: I am calling it, Total Health. What I have done is

I have adopted 70,000 people. This is from infancy to the senior most

citizen—from the first breath to the last breath. I want to see how I can

change people’s lives by making them physically healthy, spiritually

healthy, environmentally healthy. The project just got off the ground in my

village. Fortunately, it connects the place where my father was born and my

mother was born. And in those days a distance of 10 km was too far. My

idea is very clear that to keep a newborn child well, I must look after the

mother as well. The programs are there: mother and child programs are

24 Creating Emerging Markets

there. But how can we better those? How can we see that they are

applicable to [all] people? How do I take him [the child] before he goes to

school? How do I [put programs in place] from 5 to 15 years old—when he

is in school or he enters college and then when he gets into a job, when he

is 25 to 45 years old, until when he retires. What are the things that can

make a difference to him? There are many things that we are trying to do in

the village. Number one, of course, is to follow the first 1,000 days of

people’s lives—that is, of a child. Then we are trying to bring a lot of

recreational facilities in these villages, plus you know, some employment

opportunities, so that they are occupied. But, the more important thing is,

from this we will know why Indians are more prone to heart disease. You

know that Indians are five times more prone to heart disease than the

Western peoples, the Caucasians. Why? They say some 400 years ago, we

had famine. Suppose I remove that famine now and feed that child well,

will that change [the predisposition]? So [we are following up] some of

these [issues], for which we have no answers in medicine. There is a close

follow-up of all these people that we will be able to do. Whatever we are

doing, it’s a very replicable model and there are very committed people

with me who are part of it. All the villagers are happy that we are doing this

because they have nothing to lose, everything to gain.

TK: I think what’s very refreshing about your recounting of your

professional career is the incredible vision, the encompassing vision and

you are reiterating it now with this new focus on the 70,000 people and if I

25 Reddy Interview

may say also, what’s also refreshing is you are bringing collections of

people together, whether it’s your new vision document or your embracing

the politicians and the bureaucrats as necessary actors in the process of

healthcare reform. We are all very appreciative and we are deeply grateful

to you for your work and your service. Thank you very much, sir.

PR: Thank you very much, Professor Tarun Khanna, it’s a privilege to

be talking to you and talking to Harvard. I hope this will add to better

healthcare—becoming, saying, giving us the confidence that we can do.

TK: The privilege is all ours.

PR: Thank you very much, thank you!