Keeping Score:

Interviews with
Today’s Top Film,
Television, and Game
Music Composers
Tom Hoover

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Keeping Score: Interviews with Today's  2010 Tom Hoover.
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Dedicated to the creative spirit in each of us.
Acknowledgments
I would like to first thank Mark Garvey, from Cengage Learning, who first brought the idea
of this interview compilation to my attention. Mark has been extremely helpful, responsive,
and professional in his dealings with me, and it’s been a pleasure to work with him.
I’d like to especially thank my editor Sandy Doell for the steady assistance and valuable
guidance she provided throughout the entire process. This book would not be what it is
today without her help and that of copy editor Melba Hopper, so I am quite grateful—
and fortunate—to have worked with such a stellar team.
The Composers. Without their music, there would be nothing to keep score of! My gratitude
and appreciation for their work are immense, and I hope that I have produced a book that
earns their respect in some small way.
The role of the Publicists and Management in this endeavor was crucial, and I would like to
thank each of them for their hard work and dedication in seeing this through. To you, Caitlin
Owens (ID-PR), Greg O’Connor-Read (Top Dollar PR, music4games.net), Michael Boosler
and Ron Moss (Chapman Management), Karoline Brandt (CW3 Public Relations), Alison
Wright (Air-Edel), Neil Kohan (GreenSpan Artist Management), Jo Carpenter, Bryce
Jacobs, Ree Kadivar, and Amanda Pettit—my heartfelt thanks. Special thanks also to
Beth Krakower of Cinemedia Promotions and Christopher Coleman of Tracksounds.com
for their great work in the industry.
I’d also like to pass along my gratitude to my terrific friends who have assisted me in
their own way, whether they know it or not: Rich Grover, Jeff DeSimone, John Bejko, Ted
Buehler, Steve Sikoryak, Terrance Littlejohn, Christopher Crum, and Robert Drummond.
My family: Your support is always near and dear to me. Thanks for being there.
And lastly, to my beautiful wife, Dana, and my magnificent, inspiring son, Cody—yours is
the music I enjoy listening to most each day!

iv
About the Author
Tom Hoover is the founder and producer of ScoreNotes.com, a web site that offers audio
interviews with some of today’s biggest names in film music and entertainment.
With over 10 years of experience in the business, and having conducted well over 100 inter-
views in all, Tom has an ongoing interest in finding unique and creative ways to present
soundtrack and film coverage to audiences.
His future goals include the development of a multimedia concept related to ScoreNotes as
well as pursuing screenwriting interests.
Tom currently lives in Mount Laurel, New Jersey, with his wife, Dana, and son, Cody.
Web Site: SCORENOTES.com
Email: [email protected]

v
Contents
Overture . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .xii

PART I
INTERVIEWS WITH TODAY’S TOP FILM
COMPOSERS 1

Chapter 1
Keeping Score with Brian Tyler 3
Dragonball: Evolution, Fast and Furious, Rambo

Chapter 2
Keeping Score with John Ottman 11
Superman Returns, Valkyrie, The Usual Suspects

Chapter 3
Keeping Score with David Newman 21
The Spirit, Galaxy Quest, Serenity

Chapter 4
Keeping Score with Nicholas Hooper 29
Harry Potter and The Order of the Phoenix, Harry Potter
and The Half Blood Prince

vi
 Contents vii

Chapter 5
Keeping Score with Andrew Lockington 35
Journey to the Center of the Earth (2008), City of Ember

Chapter 6
Keeping Score with Marco Beltrami 45
Knowing, 3:10 to Yuma, Terminator 3

Chapter 7
Keeping Score with Geoff Zanelli 49
Outlander, Disturbia, Hitman

Chapter 8
Keeping Score with Tyler Bates 57
Watchmen, 300

Chapter 9
Keeping Score with Alex Heffes 63
State of Play, The Last King of Scotland

Chapter 10
Keeping Score with Theodore Shapiro 67
Year One, Tropic Thunder

Chapter 11
Keeping Score with John Murphy 73
28 Days Later, Snatch

Chapter 12
Keeping Score with Mark Kilian 81
Traitor, Tsotsi
viii Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Composers

Chapter 13
Keeping Score with Ramin Djawadi 89
Iron Man, Prison Break

Chapter 14
Keeping Score with Bruce Broughton 97
Tombstone, Silverado, Young Sherlock Holmes

Chapter 15
Keeping Score with Craig Safan 105
The Last Starfighter, Cheers

PART II
INTERVIEWS WITH TODAY’S TOP
TELEVISION COMPOSERS 113

Chapter 16
Keeping Score with Murray Gold 115
Doctor Who

Chapter 17
Keeping Score with James Dooley 121
Pushing Daisies

Chapter 18
Keeping Score with Christopher Lennertz 125
Supernatural

Chapter 19
Keeping Score with Michael Levine 129
Cold Case
 Contents ix

Chapter 20
Keeping Score with Nathan Barr 133
True Blood

Chapter 21
Keeping Score with Bear McCreary 137
Battlestar Galactica

Chapter 22
Keeping Score with Stu Phillips 147
Battlestar Galactica—Original Series

PART III
INTERVIEWS WITH TODAY’S TOP
VIDEOGAME COMPOSERS 153

Chapter 23
Keeping Score with Marty O’Donnell 155
Halo

Chapter 24
Keeping Score with Winifred Phillips 159
SimAnimals, Speed Racer

Chapter 25
Keeping Score with Inon Zur 165
Crysis, Prince of Persia

Chapter 26
Keeping Score with Cris Velasco 169
God of War, Clive Barker’s Jericho
x Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Composers

Chapter 27
Keeping Score with Jesper Kyd 175
Assassin’s Creed, Hitman

Chapter 28
Keeping Score with Jason Graves 181
Section 8, Dead Space

PART IV
INTERVIEWS WITH THE COMPOSERS
OF THE FUTURE 189

Chapter 29
Keeping Score with Kyle Eastwood 191
Letters from Iwo Jima, Gran Torino

Chapter 30
Keeping Score with Richard Wells 195
Mutant Chronicles, Being Human, Ong-bak

Chapter 31
Keeping Score with Abel Korzeniowski 201
Battle for Terra, A Single Man

Chapter 32
Keeping Score with Scott Glasgow 205
Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles, Chasing Ghosts

Chapter 33
Keeping Score with Simon J. Hunter 213
CSI (Featured Music), Simonic Boom
 Contents xi

Chapter 34
Keeping Score with Assaf Rinde 217
Kill Zone

Chapter 35
Keeping Score with Boris Elkis 225
A Perfect Getaway

Chapter 36
Keeping Score with Clinton Shorter 229
District 9

Finale 235

Index 237
Overture
The movie, Jaws. The main character, a vicious shark coursing through the deep blue ocean
taking victims along the way. Who among us can’t hum the ominous musical accompani-
ment to this? Would Jaws be what it is today without its recognizable score? What about the
theme to Star Wars? The Good, the Bad and the Ugly?
Now for a moment, try to imagine a world of movies without film scores. It’s a concept
that’s hard to even consider. Movies and music go hand in hand; neither can exist alone. Is
the “shower scene” in Psycho made eerier with the musical score that plays hauntingly in
the background? Absolutely! For some, simply hearing the music from movies such as The
Exorcist is enough to evoke goose bumps and shivers. Music is powerful. Music is moving.
As Carlos Santana put it, “While some may use tiny brushes and watercolors, musicians
work in a field of mystical resonance, sound, and vibration.” Ludwig van Beethoven calls
music “a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy; the electric soil in which the
spirit lives, thinks and invents.”
Being a film composer is a marriage of the highly complex and the abundantly creative, a
merging that takes a unique set of skills to bring to fruition. In my opinion, composers are
often the unsung heroes of movie productions. They have the unenviable task of drawing
just the right amount of attention to a scene but not stepping over the imaginary line toward
dominating its space. They must represent emotions in an honest, natural manner, but still
deliver enough drama to make it theatrical. The composer must also take into account the
sound design of a project. Specifically, when there are action scenes in a film, they are often
dominated by impactful sound effects, and the composers must find the precise layer in
which the music can coexist with these competing elements.
Incredibly, through a vast number of scenarios such as these and other potential pitfalls in a
film’s lifecycle, the composers of today more often than not deliver what they are asked for
and more. I am often amazed that we get the quality of scores that we do given the narrow
gaps of time and extreme pressures the composers generally work under. You can also add
to that the inner politics of a film’s production along with expectations driven on them as a
result of temp scores. With such constraints, one might think it’s a surprise when a really
innovative soundtrack emerges on the other side. That we get so many is a testament to the
immeasurable talent of so many composers, both young and experienced, working today.
Indeed, such worthy efforts required some notoriety.

xii
 Overture xiii

Roughly three years ago, I set out to create a small Web site, www.ScoreNotes.com, to
demonstrate my respect and appreciation for the film music craft. As I got underway
with it, I noticed that there was a void in which many composers were not often heard
from on the press circuit tours of a particular film, and in general, were rarely spotlighted
for their work. I set out to change that in some small way and created a Composer Interview
segment on the Web site, presented in audio. It was my contention that followers of film
music would enjoy hearing the “voices behind the music,” and as it turns out, I was right.
With over 70 interviews to my credit and a high number of segment downloads each month,
the Composer Interviews segment turned out to be the real deal. With this book, I have been
able to update many of the interviews I’ve done as well as present all new segments for you
to enjoy.
As you read about what the composers have to say, you’ll find that their words present a
new manner in which the typical movie fans can access “behind-the-scenes” information
about their favorite films. You’ll also notice that these composers are as creative with
their words as they are with their music. I find each conversation to be unique in its own
way.
I have a philosophy that genuinely interesting dialogue can be had in an interview format
without asking any uncomfortable or controversial questions. With that, you’ll take a jour-
ney that is positive yet informative and hopefully one that presents some insight that perhaps
you didn’t have before.
Without further ado, it’s time to raise the curtains and cue up the first track—your Keeping
Score experience is about to begin…
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 PART
Interviews with Today’s Top
Film Composers I

Let’s face it, we have all, at one time or another, seen or read press inter-
views that are associated with new film releases as part of their publicity
machine. And my, does this publicity machine do its thing, so to speak!
However, it’s rare that I hear any commentary from these sound bites
regarding the music of the movies. Instead, we hear a lot about the char-
acters, actors, actresses, and often some information about the director,
but where is the composer in all of this?
Look no further.
In Part I of Keeping Score, we’re going to catch up with the composers
behind some of today’s biggest films. The criteria I used for this segment
was based on my personal opinion of each composer’s overall work and
the commercial impact of their films. We’re talking movies like 300, Harry
Potter, Iron Man, Watchmen, and more! Each interview, at a minimum,
offers project-specific commentary, while others are career-oriented,
broader-ranging pieces. In either case, these are conversations that will
appeal to film music devotees and casual movie audiences alike. Let’s
get to it.

1
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 Keeping Score with
1 Brian Tyler

Photo by Florian Schneider.

Brian Tyler.

B
rian Tyler represents the best in today’s modern film composer. He’s developed a
cutting-edge sound without relying on electronic influences to define it—a char-
acteristic that holds great appeal to me. He also has a knack for delivering high-
energy scores that are driven by strong, thematic foundations—an unmistakable style
that I feel is his trademark.
I first started listening to Brian when his score for Children of Dune debuted in 2003.
It’s been a great ride ever since. He has a natural talent for writing film music—a skill
further accentuated by the hard work he’s put into his craft. At one point, he worked on
53 consecutive films without taking a hiatus. That’s passion!
Even if you’re a casual filmgoer, I’m sure you’ve heard his work at some point.
He’s scored commercial hits like Eagle Eye and The Fast and the Furious sequels, yet

3
4 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

he’s also delivered sweeping, romantic efforts for smaller independent movies like
Partition.
The following interview was recorded during the time frame of Dragonball: Evolution
and Fast and Furious in early 2009 and features excerpts from some of our previous
chats. In the discussion, Brian breaks down his scoring strategies for his recent films,
while also touching on some other topics of interest, including the manner in which his
music is used in today’s popular movie trailers, and his thoughts on a rather exciting
science fiction film he is involved with. . .

Brian Tyler (2009)

ScoreNotes: Let’s begin by touching on your foundation a bit. I find that the great thing
about your work is that your style is immediately recognizable. Is that something you
have to maintain a focus on, or does your original musical voice develop naturally in
this manner as you’re writing?
Brian Tyler: For better or worse, I think there is a sound that I have that I almost can’t
get away from. When people hire me, there’s going to be a sense of what the vibe is
depending on the genre. I’ve never worked for another composer, so I was never greatly
influenced by how they did things, and I didn’t learn their craft. I didn’t go to film
school, and I wasn’t in a film composition program, so I really just learned it on my
own. . .guessing along the way [laughs]. That’s where my sound comes from—I really
didn’t have an influence except for the fact that I love soundtracks and I love listening to
scores. You know, you’ve gotta just do what you do and find your own voice. As much
as I admire the contemporary composers that came before us, I don’t want to be them.
And I really am adverse to any type of listening to temp scores because I don’t want that
to unduly influence me. It’s a matter of pride to do your own thing.
ScoreNotes: I’d like to get into your work on the film Dragonball: Evolution. How
much did you enjoy writing the music for this martial arts/fantasy-inspired world?
Brian Tyler: I’ve been a Dragonball fan for some time and knew they were making a
live-action version of it for Fox, so I actually let Fox know that I would like to do it. And
this was before they even shot the film, which was great. I was on board early, and I just
kind of wanted to dive into the world of Dragonball.
The story is a lot longer, both backwards and forwards in time, than in the movie. There
is a ton of history on the scale of thousands of years that exists for all the people who
know Dragonball apart from the movie. So I wanted to give it the feel that this exists
outside of just this little sliver of time that the movie covers and capture the fact that it
 Ch ap t er 1 Keeping Score with B rian Tyler 5

continues on for a long time after that. Whether there is another Dragonball movie in
the future or not, I wanted to make sure that it felt like this was going places and that
there was a lot of history to it. So I loved doing it.
ScoreNotes: As a fan of the series, did you draw any inspiration from the existing source
material, or did you let the picture alone speak to you?
Brian Tyler: Well, I really started writing the scenes before I saw pictures, so I suppose it
was drawn from the source material. And watching the anime, everything from DBZ,
DBGT, and the original Dragonball, it has a certain quality to it. But also there is a lot
of variety to it, especially with the music that existed beforehand, so there was no way
to redo or do new versions of all the music. It really had to be its own thing, but it was
definitely inspired from just knowing the series.
ScoreNotes: It sounds like it was a fun bit of research on your part getting ready for this.
Brian Tyler: Oh yeah, it was great. You know I have all the DVDs and everything like
that, so I dove back in and watched everything I had again.
ScoreNotes: Now, it is kind of interesting that you put a feeler out that you were inter-
ested in this movie. How often does that happen with you?
Brian Tyler: You know, it’s only every once in a while that I can actually kind of put
that out there, but sometimes it’s just by coincidence. Early in my career, I just happened
to work on things that I was really familiar with, like when I scored Children of Dune. I
mean, I was a big fan and had read the Dune books. Dune Messiah and Children of
Dune were being combined into one, and then I was just lucky enough to do it. Star
Trek is another one; Rambo is another. All the Aliens and Predator movies, The Fast
and Furious. . .huge fan ahead of time. You know, coming into some of these series
already as a fan is a lot of fun. I also read Timeline before I scored the film, and I really
loved the book, but I really wanted Jerry Goldsmith to score that movie. So that was one
of those kind of weird events where I ended up scoring the movie for a book that I really
loved. I also was, and still am, a huge Jerry Goldsmith fan.
ScoreNotes: If you can step aside from being the composer of Dragonball and strictly
answer this as a follower of the series. . .did the movie work for you?
Brian Tyler: Oh yes! It’s very different actually in terms of tone, only because I think that
something happens in the translation from animation to live action, where certain things
can be done and certain things just can’t be captured. There is just no way that certain
aspects to anime can make it to screen. Not only is it [the Dragonball series] animated,
but it’s a very long kind of running series that you’re going to invariably pare down.
6 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

A lot of my favorite characters weren’t in the film, but there was just no way they could
be; you can’t include everyone. But a lot of my favorite characters were in the movie as
well—Roshi, Piccolo, Goku, Gohan, and all those characters. So it was really cool to see
it come to life and be something I could write a score for that spanned an epic amount of
time outside of just the movie. I almost felt a sense of responsibility, like “I’m not just
scoring the movie, but I’m writing Dragonball themes,” and I know the fans really take
ownership of it. It’s a big responsibility for me to actually be writing themes for some-
thing that existed for so long and has so many legions of fans regardless of the movie;
so, you know, to me it was an important task to cover.
ScoreNotes: I do admire and appreciate your sensibility for looking out for the fans of
the series as part of your approach to the work.
Brian Tyler: As a fan myself, it’s something that comes naturally. . .just cruising along
doing my thing. . .but when I score, it’s like what I wish someone else would do if I
weren’t; that’s the kind of approach I take.
ScoreNotes: Now moving on to your next movie, Fast and the Furious—can you tell us
about the new style of music behind this fourth installment?
Brian Tyler: I think the music is getting increasingly more dramatic as the series goes on
because the characters are getting older. Especially this one has steered further and fur-
ther away from being the kind of movie that has girls in bikinis and just fast cars. Now,
it’s a story about love and love lost, vengeance and the underground and drug traffick-
ing, and all sorts of stuff that have a lot more weight to them. So I think that’s why
there’s been a shift from the first movie, which was primarily songs with some score, all
the way to this one, which is almost all score and just a small amount of songs.
You can see that, from the way Justin Lin directed it and the way the story was pre-
viously, this was supposed to be kind of your grown-up version of The Fast and Furious.
Granted it’s still a blast, it’s still fun, and it has spectacular car chases in it and every-
thing, but the tone has changed. Also, there’s the fact that this is a vengeance film, and
there is a murder in it that is pretty significant and devastating to the story.
You actually don’t just have action music, you have quite a prominent melancholy
theme that is used throughout the movie that could very well be from a very serious
film. That’s “Letty’s Theme,” which is also in the suite and in different tracks on the
soundtrack, for instance. But it occurs quite a lot in the film. And so there is an orches-
tral component, a Spanish guitar component, and you do have your action, groove, and
electronic rock thing underneath a lot of the tracks. But it’s a much more grown-up kind
of score than I think you would at first expect from a Fast and Furious movie.
 Ch ap t er 1 Keeping Score with B rian Tyler 7

ScoreNotes: Sounds really promising. And I’m always curious—when you’re dealing
with an action movie like this, do you work closely with the sound designer to mix
in your score in a way that it doesn’t get lost in all the sound effects?
Brian Tyler: The sound supervisor on this is Peter Brown, and I’ve worked with him a
million times. We’re good friends, and he’s part of a team that Justin Lin, the director,
works with. We’re able to discuss everything and make sure that we’re not stepping on
each other. We’re real careful about that, and we collaborate to make it something that
is nice and smooth so that when you watch the scene, you still get the emotion of the
music, but you still get the slam of the car impacts and things like that. And for certain
scenes, you wish the music was a little bit more. Sometimes you win and sometimes you
lose, but I think the process is pretty open when working with this team.
ScoreNotes: It’s a give and take, I suppose.
Brian Tyler: It is.
ScoreNotes: Looking back at your score for the fourth Rambo installment (2008), can
you reflect on your experience of working with a director and actor like Sylvester
Stallone?
Brian Tyler: Working with Stallone is pretty amazing because he works on two levels:
he’s a director, but he’s an actor. Especially since Rambo is an icon in film history, it is
kind of a trip sitting and working with the character you’re scoring. Since he is Rambo,
it’s like Rambo is sitting on my couch. It’s a mind blower. Sometimes I’ll look at him,
and I don’t know what to call him when we’re working on a movie like that. The great
thing is I didn’t have far to go to ask THE guy, “What is Rambo thinking here?” There
is no higher authority than the dude himself. He’s very articulate, he knows music, and
he’s a great writer. He can be very underrated as a creative force because his characters
are kind of these brute types of dudes, but he’s really bright, and I loved working with
him.
ScoreNotes: Next up, I’d like to ask you where you’re at with Battle: Los Angeles.
Brian Tyler: Battle: Los Angeles is in the stages of being made. I’m kind of on the
ground level with the director, Jonathan Liebesman, who is doing something that I
haven’t seen before. It’s like the coolest science fiction invasion film to ever come
about. I mean, it really is definitely a film that will redefine science fiction. It is really,
really exciting. Just wait until you see this stuff! It is pretty incredible. So I’m on very
early and coming up with musical ideas early, and I’m just pretty blown away with what
he’s doing, and so I’m feeding off that. I can’t wait till that one gets to be seen.
8 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

It’s kind of his [Jonathan’s] breaking out into doing what he wants, because really he is
a dramatic director, and he’s done horror pictures, but that’s not really his thing. Even
as a viewer, that’s not really where he resides as much as with a film like this one, which
just has tremendous impact. He’s doing this almost like a Saving Private Ryan or Black-
Hawk Down. It is not what you would think. It is not kind of a slick, shiny CGI alien
picture at all. It’s gritty battle. I remember some of the things I’ve seen that he’s working
on; it kind of reminds me of the impact of that first opening scene in Saving Private
Ryan, that kind of thing. So I’m really excited about it, for sure.
ScoreNotes: From the sound of it, I’m ready to sign up!
Brian Tyler: Yeah!
ScoreNotes: Recently, one trailer of the new Star Trek (2009) film featured your music.
Brian Tyler: Right.
ScoreNotes: I’d like to ask you what your opinion of it is. Do you like how it was used?
Brian Tyler: Oh yeah, I loved that. I’m a huge Star Trek fan. I think what J.J. Abrams is
doing is pretty awesome. It looked amazing. I remember when that all kind of went down.
J.J. worked on a screenplay of Eagle Eye, which also involved Alex Kurtzman and Bob
Orci, and of course they wrote the new Star Trek movie, and that’s actually when the
trailer was being done. I remember they were temping the movie with my Children of
Dune scores, and that’s how the trailer music came about. They did an expanded record-
ing of the piece from Children of Dune that was originally used. They extended it and
even had recording sessions to expand the length of the piece. So that was kind of cool.
You know, it was something that I could have to do with the Star Trek world. I’d love to
score the film of course, but I’m sure Michael [Giacchino] is doing a great job; he works
with J.J. Abrams all the time. I’m really looking forward to that movie.
ScoreNotes: Often it boils down to the people who know one another in the business.
Brian Tyler: Sure.
ScoreNotes: But if they’re going to the point where they’re adding on to your existing
material, perhaps next time, they can just simply plug you in there.
Brian Tyler: [Laughing] Hey, I wouldn’t mind!
ScoreNotes: Well, thankfully, it looks like there will be sequels down the road with this
Trek movie.
Brian Tyler: I think it’s going to reinvigorate the franchise. Yeah.
 Ch ap t er 1 Keeping Score with B rian Tyler 9

ScoreNotes: Actually, I see your trailer music popping up in all these different movies,
and it’s something that has been happening for quite some time now. I don’t think any
other composer’s work is being picked up in the unique manner that yours is. Is that
flattering for you?
Brian Tyler: Yeah, it’s great. Of course, invariably, when you’re used in trailers for The
Departed and movies like a lot of the Ron Howard pictures, Cinderella Man, and all
those kind of things. . .you go Wow! I’d love to do that!
ScoreNotes: Yeah, Indiana Jones got in on the act, too!
Brian Tyler: Of course, that was part of the Spielberg connection that got me on the
map for doing Eagle Eye because he was producing [it].
ScoreNotes: Oh, nice.
Brian Tyler: It’s always great to hear your music in these trailers. It’s just one of those
things. You don’t even know that your music is being used for the trailer often until it is
chosen. I just saw State of Play, the trailer, and sure enough the track “Prague” from
Bangkok Dangerous, my score, comes up and it’s playing. And I was like, “Oh wow, I
didn’t know that that was in there.” I find out often in the theater.
ScoreNotes: Wow, that’s something else!
Brian Tyler: It is kind of crazy. This company that keeps track of trailer music actually
has Summon the Worms [Children of Dune] as the most-used piece of music from a film
in trailers in the last six years.
ScoreNotes: Moving on a bit to look at your upcoming slate—are you going to squeeze
in a summer break this year?
Brian Tyler: I’m going to try. It’s been a while.
ScoreNotes: Because I can envision you working through season after season just turn-
ing out these great scores.
Brian Tyler: Yeah, it’s kind of strange. I was just wondering the other day truly how
many movies I had done in series. Not counting shorts or anything I have done in the
past, but I added up that I had done 53 movies, and I kept thinking, “How did I manage
to do that?” I can’t even imagine that it was that many; I’ve been going kind of nonstop.
Which is good, I suppose.
ScoreNotes: It’s good, but take a moment to enjoy things, too.
Brian Tyler: I know! Well, I’m going to catch some Lakers. I’ve got plans for tickets.
10 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

ScoreNotes: Well, there you go!

Brian Tyler: Maybe catch some Formula One this year. . .catch a couple of races, maybe
overseas. So we’ll see, but I’m going to mix in some fun for sure.
ScoreNotes: Sounds good Brian. It’s always a pleasure to catch up with you.
Brian Tyler: All right Tom, you too.
 Keeping Score with
2 John Ottman

Used by permission.

John Ottman.

I
t was great getting a chance to speak with composer John Ottman about his career.
He’s been working as a film score composer since the mid-’90s when he first colla-
borated with Bryan Singer on The Usual Suspects. Since then, John has been on a
sustained roll, both as a composer and an editor (he’s even done some directing, too!) on
some of Hollywood’s top films.
The following interview hits key touch points on his career path as we discuss his music
from The Usual Suspects, X-Men 2, Superman Returns, Valkyrie, and more. No doubt,
John’s career to date is full of interesting and challenging projects, but I feel the best is
still yet to come from this multi-talented composer. . .

11
12 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

John Ottman (2009)

ScoreNotes: What has the John Ottman Hollywood journey been like thus far?
John Ottman: I’m pretty fatalistic and try to be realistic about the world of freelance. I
always prepare myself that every next gig might be my last one for a while. And then, lo
and behold, another comes up right on the tail end of the previous, and it never seems to
cease. That, thankfully, has been pretty much the way it’s been. This way, I prepare
myself for the worst, try to enjoy my life; and then if anything good happens, I’m pleas-
antly surprised. In fact, I’ve been so “surprised” all the time that I don’t ever get much of
a life to enjoy!
ScoreNotes: At the time of The Usual Suspects, did you have a hunch that you and
Bryan Singer would be destined for great success together in this business?
John Ottman: Not really [laughs]. The Usual Suspects to me was like a glorified student
film, as far as I was concerned. It was just Bryan and me making another movie, and if
people liked it, great. But it always felt as if we were making the movie to please our-
selves, which means it was never made by committee. I never really had seen that many
movies of this sort going into it. I was a sci-fi freak who watched a lot of Star Trek, so I
didn’t know who the actors were in the movie, which was sort of good because I treated
them as the characters I saw them as. I didn’t have any preconceived notions about who
these characters were until I was helping to create them in the editing room—which was
an old Steinbeck reel-to-reel console, a tape splicer, and heaps of film strewn about my
living room. Those were the days! So for me, it was just to make a film that pleased us,
and if at the end of the day other people liked it, it was icing on the cake.
We ended up having a screening of the movie that went pretty well, but I basically
thought that the movie would come and go, and I would end up going back to my
day job. As it turns out, The Usual Suspects changed our lives. . .unexpectedly.
ScoreNotes: In what ways has your writing technique evolved from the early days of
that film?
John Ottman: I think as you grow more comfortable in your own skin and have more
faith in yourself, your style inevitably evolves. When I do more projects and start to
have confidence in myself and throw out some of the fear, then I go to the keyboard
and start playing with the keys and have something come out from myself rather than
refer to any other music, which I used to do early on. I actually think a lot of new
composers do this because their butts are on the line, and they want to impress every-
one. There’s a lot of temp love that goes on. New guys might take the safe way and
emulate a lot of the style from the temp score. That’s why in a lot of the early scores by
 Chapter 2 K eeping Score with John Ottman 13

prominent composers, you can hear them ripping off other composers. They were either
made to because they didn’t have a name at the time or they were in fear of not making
everyone happy.
It’s also a crutch. My mind is far more free now, and ideas come to me so much easier if
I just let all that go and just sit here and fiddle on the keyboard without referring to
anything. The fringe benefit of that, which is a godsend, is that you end up having your
own signature style. Goldsmith, Williams, Barry—you always know for certain that it’s
their score you’re listening to. It’s great to have people pick you out because you have a
sound that differentiates you from other composers, and that’s only going to happen if
you let go of your insecurities and just write.
ScoreNotes: When Bryan took on the first X-Men film, you were unavailable since you
had a directing feature of your own. Have you had any further interest in returning to
the director’s chair since then?
John Ottman: Yes, I’ve always had an interest. All my friends around me are always
harping on me to go direct more. I do have offers all the time to develop projects, but it’s
a lifestyle issue since I basically bought a lot of stuff [laughs] and depend on a certain
income that I depend on from my composing. So to leave my day job to go invest a year
and a half on something that’s not going to pay as well for a second-time director is a
scary prospect. It’s really fear keeping me from directing. But I loved doing it, had a
great time, and it felt very natural to me. But who knows, I’m always looking at stuff.
It’s funny—I ask myself “How many people have all these offers all the time?” I’m like
the one person who has all these offers and isn’t doing anything about it. It was 20 years
ago when I was coming out of film school and would have been in disbelief that I would
be receiving so many directing opportunities. And now that they’re coming, I’m like, eh,
maybe! So it’s funny how life works.
ScoreNotes: How much were you looking forward to scoring the X-Men sequel?
John Ottman: I couldn’t wait. That was a huge thing for me. I just knew in the back of
my head that I had a knack for doing that sort of superhero and lyrical type of score. I
grew up with that kind of music, and that’s the kind of film scores I lived and breathed
when I was growing up. I knew I had it in me, so it was really devastating when our
schedules collided. It was a big bummer for both of us.
ScoreNotes: Fundamentally speaking, and this can apply to any franchise, should the
musical themes in a series carry over, or at least be referenced, from one installment to
the next?
John Ottman: I’m a huge believer in that. In fact, having musical continuity in a film
franchise is a soapbox issue for me. It just drives me crazy. It would be as if you were
14 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

watching a James Bond film and the theme were changing from film to film. That fran-
chise doesn’t do that, and every series should be that way. I guess this type of thing
happens because another composer comes on a franchise, and my assumption is that
perhaps they have an ego and want to do their own theme and not use the theme
from a previous film, and so this discontinuity is created. When I get on a film with a
previous standing theme, like for instance Superman, I want to keep the world alive and
add my own original style to it. It’s almost sacrilege to me to go away from the theme.
That’s what made it hard for me not to be involved in X-Men 3, because I had to aban-
don something I was basically planting the seeds for. In X-Men 2, I had written themes
that were intentionally designed to evolve into the next movie. And then to have that
ripped out from under me when Bryan yanked us to go work on Superman, I was really
distraught about that. Of course, the double whammy is I was thrown into a franchise
that already had an existing theme [laughs]!
ScoreNotes: Staying in the “Marvel Universe,” can you tell us how the theme for the
Silver Surfer originated? To this day, it’s one of my favorite modern hero themes.
John Ottman: That’s kind of a funny story. I had written the Silver Surfer theme when I
had read the script with this character having this pathos, inner turmoil, and pain, which
all superheroes do, really. It actually came to me during a plane trip, and I just thought,
“This is it, this is the Silver Surfer theme.”
I presented it to a music exec at Fox, and he didn’t respond to it, as he wanted something
that sounded like 300 because he was anticipating that the powers that be at the studio
might want something electronic that sounded similar to that because it was the flavor
of the moment. 300 had made all this money, and you know how Hollywood is—they
have to jump on the bandwagon of whatever was a hit and do the same thing. But I was
thinking to myself, Fantastic Four 2 is a completely different type of movie than 300 and
is a continuing franchise with an existing type of score—one that I was hired on to write
an orchestral, romantic superhero score.
So we went down this road of doing all these crazy electronic themes that were really
forcing a square peg into a round hole and didn’t make any sense. So I did this big, crazy
electronic acid rock demo [laughs] of the Silver Surfer theme. To my delight, the powers
that be were horrified! It was then that I had a rare moment of complete respect for film
executives. They said they wanted the John Ottman sound like for Wolverine in X2. I
was so relieved! I went back to my original theme and presented it to them, and they
loved it.
ScoreNotes: Can you also touch on the overall tone you were looking to convey in the
Fantastic Four films?
 Chapter 2 K eeping Score with John Ottman 15

John Ottman: Fantastic Four 4 is definitely superhero light. That was fun for me because
when things are so serious, like in X-Men 2 and so forth, you have to be very careful
about riding that psychological line between darkness and light. But when something is
just completely comic book, you can really have fun as a composer. Even the sinister and
dark characters have a sense of fun to them. Plus, you can go over the top and not worry
about being too subtle, and that’s always a lot of fun for me as well. Yet, having said
this, you always gotta take the story and characters seriously as a composer, because
you’re telling your own story musically, or should be.
ScoreNotes: When you moved on to work on Superman Returns, did you feel any addi-
tional pressure in following John Williams in the series?
John Ottman: Let’s just say I was practically getting death threats on the Internet from
die-hard fans telling me to use the original theme. I had always intended to use the
original theme, but people would e-mail me to beg me to keep the theme alive. They
would also ask why I was doing the score and not John Williams. I don’t know how so
many people found my e-mail address!
It got to a point where I finally stopped worrying about what everyone else wanted me
to do and just did what I thought was right. It was crippling my creative process, and I
was completely hung up on trying to anticipate what everyone else would want. So, I
said to myself that I would just walk into it like I would any other film and score it with
my own sensibilities. Otherwise, it was going to sound like I was imitating someone else,
and that’s the worst kind of score when it’s not coming from within the composer. And I
can hum any moment of Superman because it’s part of my psyche, so it was very easy to
intertwine it with my own stuff. So what came out of it was a very personal score that
sounded like me but also gave the nod to Williams, and that was the only way I could
get through it and score it effectively.
At the same time, as threatening as the fans were, I could completely relate to them
because not only was I a huge fan of the Richard Donner version (and didn’t want to
disturb that world), I also likened them to how I was prior to the first Star Trek movie. I
would go to Star Trek conventions and grill the actors with questions about what the
transporter room looked like, what the Enterprise looked like, etc. I was completely
concerned about my entire world being destroyed by the making of a movie that could
have potentially ruined Star Trek for me. So, I completely understood where the Super-
man fans were coming from. . .but at the same time, you have to embrace the new a
little bit, too. And in retrospect, I believe that one of the problems with Superman
Returns is that we were all so concerned, almost in a religious way, with preserving
the Donner version that the film was inhibited from evolving. It was almost like a
love letter to the Donner world, which is fine and good, but I think the next generation
needed something newer to see.
16 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

ScoreNotes: A more recent project of yours was the Tom Cruise thriller, Valkyrie. Given
the delays on the movie, how much of a time commitment did that become for you both
in the editing phase and with the score?
John Ottman: Way too long! [laughs] It was originally supposed to be a low-budget, six
month, in and out gig, like a TV schedule. I remember lamenting to Bryan on the phone
when he called about it, and I said, “Wait a minute, we just finished Superman a few
months ago; you’re supposed to leave me alone for a couple of years so I can go and
write film scores and make some money.” He said, “Don’t worry; it’ll just be this little
thing. You’ll be in and out, and you can go back to writing scores.”
So of course, the project ended up being a year and a half and one of the most difficult
projects I’ve ever worked on, both professionally and personally. It wreaked havoc on
my relationship. It was a very hard year and a half on me.
But that isn’t to imply anything about the people involved. They were great. Tom Cruise
is one of the most awesome people and a gifted filmmaker as well. He is rarely con-
cerned about his performance; it’s all about the story and about pleasing the audience in
terms of the movie itself. He was a positive part of the hell we went through. It was a
hard movie to put together. Here you have a story where you know the outcome, you
know they aren’t going to succeed, you know Hitler is going to live (if you’re over 12),
and the main event of the bomb going off takes place halfway through the movie. So
how do you keep everyone enthralled and interested in the story to the end? On top of
that, you have a bunch of old men talking about convoluted plots in small confined
smoking rooms, so how do you make that a fascinating thriller? That was the challenge.
I knew when I read the script this was going to be my personal nightmare because it was
all going to come back to the editing and the music to pull this thing off. And that’s
pretty much how it went down. Endless tweaking!
And what didn’t make it any easier (and I know I shouldn’t care about gossip) was what
people were saying on the Internet. We had this movie that was shaping up to be a
strong film from day one, and we never had any problems with the film. I really learned
a lot about the news media and “journalism” through this whole “destroy Valkyrie”
campaign that started ensuing on the Internet. It was just unbelievable to know the real-
ity and then read the fiction that was being believed by everyone. And yet you couldn’t
really say anything because to go out and try to counteract the rumors would lower
yourself to them and would almost look like propaganda the moment you tried to dis-
suade any rumors. We sort of had to learn to bite our tongues for all that time, which
was very frustrating.
ScoreNotes: The film turned out to be both entertaining and informative, a rather rare
combination for a Hollywood movie!
 Chapter 2 K eeping Score with John Ottman 17

John Ottman: Yeah, despite the hardships of the film, the first day I received the dailies I
was really starting to enjoy it. I thought it was fascinating, the actors were fantastic, and
we’ve got a great story. It would have been fine if there weren’t people who were trying
to make the film crash and burn before it even started. That was pretty much what made
it difficult to get through. And in the end, it actually affected the film as well. The studio
didn’t want to release any DVDs for the Academy members early on because they were
afraid they would leak onto the Internet and all these people would get their hands on
the films and do God knows what with them on sites like YouTube and so forth. So
given the machine that was out there to destroy Valkyrie, it was too much of a risk to get
it out there. Because the film was out in December, by the time the film had been shown
in theaters, there was no time to get the DVDs out to the Academy members because the
voting deadline is in January. So actually it did affect Valkyrie in terms of, I think,
cheating some people out of nominations.
ScoreNotes: It really is a shame to hear that. On the bright side, the movie did turn out
extremely well, and it is something to be proud of.
John Ottman: Thank you. We’re all proud of the work and passion we put into it.
ScoreNotes: Was that the first time in your career you were able to write a choral piece
with such dramatic impact at stake?
John Ottman: I’ve obviously done choral stuff before, but not with lyrics. I didn’t know
how to leave the audience because at the end of the movie is the execution with this very
emotional orchestral music. And then to start the end credits with the same kind of
material would have been too depressing with no juxtaposition of something new
when people are leaving the theater. We desperately wanted the audience to feel the
sense of sacrifice, heroism, and hope—that there were these people who, against all
odds, almost changed history.
I had written this orchestral piece for the end credits, and it just wasn’t working for me.
So I decided on writing a choral piece. But what the hell was I going to have them say?
So a friend of a friend found a poem from the German poet, Gerta. I looked at the lyrics,
and it just gave me chills. It was sort of a loose allegory to what had happened to the
men in the movie. So I took this poem and adapted the lyrics to the melody, which was
not easy because I did it with a friend of mine and neither of us spoke German and we
had no idea what we were doing [laughing]. So we actually adapted the lyrics to the
melody, and unknown to us, we didn’t do it so well. It sounded great to us as English-
speaking Americans, but when we played it for a couple of German people, they were
scratching their heads. We had to consult language scholars along with music scholars
and put our heads together, and literally a couple days before the recording session, we
18 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

were changing whole notes to half notes and quarter notes to eighth notes just to try to
alter the theme to fit the lyrics in properly.
ScoreNotes: Wow, quite a task it sounds like!
John Ottman: It ended up sounding beautiful, and when the choir sang it without
scratching their heads, I thanked God [laughs]. I wanted to submit it to the Academy
for the song category, but the lyrics had to be original.
ScoreNotes: I’d like to ask about your take on some of my favorite, perhaps lesser
known, works of yours. First, where would you rank the music of Eight Legged Freaks
on your personal rating scale? I found it to be terrifically entertaining on multiple levels!
John Ottman: Wow, that’s been so long I can barely remember it now! I do recall it was
a fun time. Again, it was one of those movies where you can let your hair down and not
worry about riding the line too closely. It’s often the films off the beaten path that are
my favorites and most rewarding musically—like Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, and even little
gems like Pumpkin.
ScoreNotes: Would you say that a score like Incognito is also recommended listening for
your fans?
John Ottman: That’s at the top of my list for sure. It’s well known that it’s one of my
favorite scores. It’s very classical in nature, so someone new to my work who is looking
for a superhero kind of score might get the wrong idea. But to me, I often feel like I’m
just not going to do anything better than that. It was a rare opportunity for a composer
—a film designed with four- and five-minute sequences without any sound design or
dialogue, just basically a road map for a composer to compose onto. So the music
could be very expository and didn’t have to hide; it was basically like being commis-
sioned to write a symphony. So yes, I would say that it was one of the highest points in
my career. . .until I learned that the film didn’t come out, which was extremely
depressing.
ScoreNotes: Earlier in the discussion, you shared the sense of uncertainty you have
about maintaining a steady workload in this business. Do you think you will always
carry a sense of fear or angst about where the next project is coming from?
John Ottman: The angst never stops and the fear never stops, with me at least. It’s just
the way I am. But it makes the highs higher and the lows not seem so bad [laughs]. As
much as I’d like to go direct and have all these other things in my life, I’m always excited
about writing film music. I just had a realization the other day while working on Astro
Boy, which is a joy by the way, that film music is something that will always be fresh to
 Chapter 2 K eeping Score with John Ottman 19

me, and I will always be happy doing it. It’s like giving birth to something. And that’s a
really lucky thing to be able to say because not everyone can continually find joy in their
work. Obviously, this career, like with any other in the business, is peppered with a lot
of pain and anxiety as well, and horrible personalities, ridiculous deadlines, and sleep
deprivation, but I realize I wouldn’t have it any other way.
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 Keeping Score with
3 David Newman

Photo by Alan Weissman.

David Newman.

D
avid Newman has a rich history when it comes to film music. His father,
Alfred, was the legendary composer behind many of the cinematic blockbusters
from yesteryear, while his brother, Thomas, is one of the most sought after
composers currently working today. His cousin Randy has etched quite a name for him-
self in the industry as well. Truly, the positive impact that the entire Newman family has
had on film music would require a book of its own to tell the tale.
A successful and prolific composer in his own right, David has composed music for
over 90 films* in his career. For this interview, I had a chance to speak with David
soon after The Spirit was released in theaters. David spoke candidly about the film’s

*Statistic captured from IMDB.com.

21
22 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

fate and also shared his strategy behind the artistic, noir-inspired score he created for it.
We also spoke about some of the other noteworthy projects he previously worked on,
including cult favorites like Galaxy Quest and Serenity.
One of the real gems of this discussion, however, is David’s recollection of growing up
in the Newman family and how he first became interested in the craft. It’s a great read
that even the casual movie fan will enjoy. . .

David Newman (2009)

ScoreNotes: From a composer’s perspective, can you please tell us how interesting it was
for you to work on a film as creatively imagined as The Spirit?
David Newman: Well, I’ve done a lot of films in my life, but very rarely do I do a film
where I’m working almost exclusively with the actual filmmakers, with the director and
the producer, who is really more of a creative type person. I’m really sorry that it didn’t
do as well as we all thought it would do [at the box office]. I think it’s a little ahead of its
time in terms of its tone and its sort of tongue and cheek “noir-ish” kind of quality, but
it was an absolute pleasure for me to work on The Spirit.
ScoreNotes: Do you think the lack of box office success might have to do with viewers
maybe too closely associating the film’s style with that of Sin City?
David Newman: I think there might be some of that; The Spirit is a very unusual film.
It’s so against expectations and perhaps people are almost flabbergasted by some of the
scenes. I always liked the film, but there is a lot of detail and interesting stuff in it, and
so I can’t really say why it didn’t do as well at the box office. There is much more
intelligence in it than is normal in a film, a lot more of western culture, literary kinds
of things, believe it or not. The timing may have been the worst thing. Generally in
movies, no one really knows what’s going to happen, and the further you go away
from what’s expected in a genre, the more risky it is. I think he [Director Frank Miller]
went pretty far away from the genre. Frank did what he does, but there is an odd tone to
the movie that maybe people weren’t ready for yet. But I always thought, and I thought
to the end, that it’s a really terrific movie. Aside from that, doing the music for it was a
complete, utter pleasure because of the way in which the film was set up, that it was just
working with filmmakers. I worked a lot with the sound people; it was a completely
collaborative, pleasurable experience for me.
ScoreNotes: Do you think more movies should have productions like that of The Spirit?
David Newman: Well, I wish! As a composer and as a part of the filmmaking process, I
wish they were all made like that. But they’re not. I’ve done lots of very commercial
 Chapter 3 Keeping Score wi th David N ewman 23

studio films and a fair amount of art films, and generally you learn to deal with what it
is. I’m used to all kinds of crazy things, all kinds of rewriting and having to go all over
the map. But when you work with people who make decisions fairly quickly and are
committed to their decisions, obviously you don’t worry so much about improvising
your way around to please everyone. But it’s not to say that I don’t enjoy the other
part of the Hollywood industry which is trying to figure out what people mean by
what they say and what the film needs. And when you go out and test the movie,
what does the audience think, and where in there do you follow the audience? Do
you lead the audience and all those kinds of things? But that’s just part of the job,
which is actually really kind of interesting. The Spirit was a different type of movie.
It was more like doing an art thing where it’s really all about the art and not so
much about the commerce. Maybe to the detriment, I don’t know.
ScoreNotes: Do you feel a film such as this might find resurgence once it hits the DVD
shelves?
David Newman: You never know about these things, so you just move on and see what
happens.
ScoreNotes: I felt, for this movie, your score was quite artistic and unique. What were
some of the musical ideas or styles you explored in developing the score?
David Newman: Well, there were a lot of obvious references. There’s the harmonica,
which is an obvious reference to spaghetti westerns because there is an aspect of that
to the movie. The whole movie is a big duel between The Spirit and the Octopus, and
it almost has an old western standoff style to it. And so I used the harmonica as sort of
the soul of The Spirit. Obviously, there are a lot of other characters. There’s a lot of
reference to noir film scoring in a sort of tongue and cheek way. A lot of the movie is
tongue and cheek, which I don’t think people got exactly. There was a noir element
with the women characters, especially with Sand Saref. Additionally, there was a kind
of quirky element with Silken Floss, so they all had sort of different kinds of aspects to
them with the music. And then I did as I said: I worked with the sound people a lot. I
tried to stay out of the way, scoring it where I wasn’t going for these big action
sequences where I’m going at full tilt while the effects and visuals are going full tilt
and then everybody deciding at the mix who’s going to win. It was much more like,
“I’ll get out of the way here, and then you get out of the way there.” But again, that’s
a kind of an unusual approach as well, because most of these films are just slammed
with sound. There’s just sound going at all times. We didn’t approach it like that. We
tried to give it air and breath in places where we could recede into the background or
move into the foreground, depending on what we wanted to do, and we really worked
it out.
24 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

ScoreNotes: That’s an interesting point about a “sound versus music” standoff, as it

were, because you’re correct about how that dynamic usually plays out. Especially so
with summer blockbusters or event movies; they try to jam it all in at one moment, and
you can’t really identify what it is you’re watching or hearing.
David Newman: Right, I think that’s the normal thing that’s done now. Everyone tries
to push everything to the front. If you think of the movie as a room, a sound stage, or a
concert hall where you’re sitting in the audience and then there can be depth in the
screen, something can seem to come from the back to the front. I think mainly in
these kinds of comic book movies, or these sorts of sci-fi or action movies, everything
is slammed to the front. It’s the only way to win in a way, so we experimented with a
completely different approach to the sound in the movie.
ScoreNotes: Now, how does a project like The Spirit stack up with another high-quality
film like Serenity that you worked on a few years ago?
David Newman: Serenity is really similar in the way that I was working with an artist,
Josh Whedon, who was in charge of the movie except that movie was for a big studio, so
there was a little more pressure on Josh. He was quite a bit more experienced than
Frank was, so it was a little more about kicking things back and forth to find the
soul of that movie. But again, in that movie, too, we did a bit of the sound design
kind of thing. It was similar in the way that it was all about the art of it and not so
much about the commerce. That was a terrific experience, too. Coincidentally, that had
sort of a western feel to it as well. Serenity also had some other issues involved because
there was such a rabid fan base and the music was such a big part of Firefly, so Josh and
I had to kind of deal with that and talk about what we were going to do about that. I
think some people liked what we did and some people didn’t like it, depending on how
fanatical they were about Firefly. I did some of that sort of down-home stuff in it, but
there were a lot of other elements in it because Josh really wanted it to be a big movie.
He felt that a movie is a different experience than an episodic television series.
ScoreNotes: Absolutely. . .it’s on a different platform, and the music has to follow suit.
David Newman: Yeah, but you live and learn this stuff. The reason the movie got made
in the first place is because of the fan base. When you’re in it, you do what you think is
the best thing to do. Serenity was a fantastic experience for me as well.
ScoreNotes: I have to say, you seem to have a knack for picking dynamic and interesting
projects.
David Newman: I’m glad you say that because most people don’t say that! I’ve done so
many movies, part of my aesthetic in doing this is that I like to do lots of different
 Chapter 3 Keeping Score wi th David N ewman 25

things. But I’m also a working craftsman as well, so I can help movies. I feel like my job
is to help; I don’t know if the word sell is right because that sounds too corporate. . .but
my job is to collaborate with the movie, which is this immutable thing that demands
collaboration from the artist’s side but not from itself. It’s not going to collaborate with
you, and so I’ve had a lot of what I thought were interesting projects. I’ve done a lot of
big studio comedies. I’ve actually done quite a few art films and various bizarre things.
I’ve had a lot of other things in my career. I’ve done a lot of conducting. I used to run the
Sundance Composers Program for five years, and we’ve got a lot of music recopied and
performed. I was a violinist in my twenties. I worked on all of Jerry Goldsmith’s and
John Williams’ movies that were recorded in Los Angeles in the late ’70s to middle ’80s.
I’ve done a lot of things, so I’m glad you say that!
ScoreNotes: I think the neat thing about film music is that fans can identify with a favor-
ite composer and really pick out, from the breadth of a career, the particular soundtracks
that kind of shaped that composer’s voice. I think that’s one of the neat aspects of being a
follower of soundtracks. For me, one such movie from your career is Galaxy Quest.
When you completed the score for that film was there ever talk afterwards of maybe
doing a sequel?
David Newman: We’re all actually still really close, Dean Parisot and all the people that
made that movie, including the editor, Don Zimmerman, and my music editor, Jeff
Carson. We hang out from time to time and still go out drinking and eating, or what-
ever. I’ve never heard anybody talk about doing a sequel. I just did recently a film that
Tim Allen directed called Crazy on the Outside that we just finished. I was talking to
Tim about the movie, too. And he had such a great time, but no one ever mentioned to
him about doing a sequel either. That was such a bizarre experience because that was
DreamWorks, and no one knew what that movie was. There was another movie like
The Spirit where nobody got what the tone was. When it came out, it didn’t do all that
well. It wasn’t like The Spirit, but it certainly wasn’t a huge hit. But some people really
got that movie. I think I remember talk about [how] the studio wanted to make the
movie for kids, 10- to 15-year-olds, and we were always baffled because obviously
it’s a Star Trek television series type of movie.
ScoreNotes: Right.
David Newman: And so, what would that age group know about that? I mean, I know
they would know what Star Trek was, but we were always scratching our heads about
what that meant. And we didn’t end up doing that obviously. It’s a parody. I was on
that movie from really early on from when they were shooting, so I kind of watched the
whole thing develop. I wrote the little theme that was for the TV show really early on,
and then I really didn’t do anything until the film was done, and we sort of finished it,
26 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

but I was kind of in the mix there as they went and screened it and talked about it and
all the machinations that happen with a studio movie. No, I never heard anyone talk
about a sequel.
ScoreNotes: Well, if you’re ever in that circle again, I think it’s a good time to bring it up
because I have a feeling Galaxy Quest 2 would do very well at the box office.
David Newman: I think it would do better than the first one. I think it’s a really good
idea.
ScoreNotes: In looking at your career, and specifically with you being in the musically
inspired family that you are, can you just touch on what it was like to grow up in the
environment that you did?
David Newman: Sure, my father was much older when I was born. My father was 54
when I was born, and he died when he was 70. I was born in 1954, he died in 1970, and
I had just turned 15 when he died. We were really trained classically, my brother Tom
and me, and my younger sister. I played violin from a young age, and piano, and we were
trained with theory and counterpoint privately, kind of like what would be a European
sort of training, private lessons and such, and it was my mother who did all that. But
after my father died, my Uncle Lionel, who was the youngest, took over at Fox, and I
started going down and visiting with him.
They were all very nice to us and everything. I’d go down and start visiting Lionel, and
then I’d start listening to all these reel-to-reel tapes that my father and Ken Darby had
worked on. If you watch the late 1950s and ’60s movies up until my dad died, he
always worked with Ken Darby. In fact for Camelot, which is the last Academy
Award he won, he and Ken won it. They also worked on The King and I, which
was also an Academy Award he won. Anyway, Ken was a very technological person,
and he had made reel-to-reel tapes of most of those movies from the late ’50s and ’60s
once my father left Fox. I started when I was in college studying violin at USC in Los
Angeles. I started listening over and over, particularly to The Greatest Story Ever Told
and Nevada Smith, and I was completely stunned by the incredible art in the orchestra
playing—which is entirely another conversation because I think this is something that
is so unique to Hollywood of that time, completely singular to the Fox orchestra and
their whole group there. It was built over 20 years, so that completely resonated with
my aesthetic because I was very much into conducting and classical music; my father
was a huge opera and classical music fan. And I have a ton of his scores and things like
that. So for me, it was almost posthumous as to when I really learned kind of what
Alfred Newman was about.
 Chapter 3 Keeping Score wi th David N ewman 27

The other part of it, which I think is unique, is that my father’s aesthetic in composing
was really tied up in administering a film music department at Fox. I don’t know if you
know anything about it, but it was the most innovative film department at the time.
He pulled in Bernard Herrmann and David Raksin when no one else would work with
them because they were so cantankerous and no one wanted to use them. [My father]
was a great administrator, a great conductor, and an orchestra person.
So that’s kind of the long-winded way of saying what it was like for me. It was mainly
posthumous because when he was alive, he made sure that we were classically trained
and that we liked school and played sports, and he wanted to make our lives as normal
as possible.
ScoreNotes: I want to thank you for sharing that bit of personal history with us because
it really gives an insight as to when that moment of becoming a film composer crystal-
lized for you.
David Newman: Right. Thomas, my brother, wanted to compose from when he was a
teenager, so he was always writing and working. For me, I played violin and I wanted to
conduct, so I didn’t really start until I was in my late twenties. Tom and I, and then my
sister Maria who is much younger, were trained to do whatever. So after I decided it
wasn’t some impossible thing to do, because I had been trained to do it if I wanted to do
it, I started. That’s from my father.
ScoreNotes: That’s terrific. Now that we’ve taken a look at your past, could you fill us
in on any future projects that you may have lined up at this point in time?
David Newman: Well, I just finished two projects last year that haven’t come out yet [as
of January 2009]. One is a project that Tim Allen directed (his directorial debut), a
romantic comedy called Crazy on the Outside. And I did a film for Playtone, which is
Tom Hanks’ company, that Donald Petrie directed, called My Life in Ruins that will be
out next year, which has a lot of Greek music in it with orchestra music as well. And I’ve
been doing the Movie Night in Los Angeles at the Hollywood Bowl each year. This will be
the third year that I’ll do that. They do a really elaborate movie night that’s really serious.
They’ll either do it with a studio or composer, and everything is synchronized with film,
and we do scenes and that kind of thing. And my wife and I are on the board of directors
of an organization here called The American Youth Symphony [www.aysymphony.org],
which Zubin Mehta’s father started 47 years ago. We’re doing a Jerry Goldsmith project
where for the next three years we’re breaking Jerry Goldsmith’s career up into three
sections. . .early, middle, and late. . .we did the early part in December [2008] where we
did Planet of the Apes and all this incredible music that he wrote.
28 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

My daughter is a vocal major at USC but also plays violin in the orchestra, and you
know, we have a nice life, doing that. We’re trying to pass on the music thing.
ScoreNotes: I do want to thank you for going through some of your recent projects,
future projects, and also taking a look back at your past. I really do appreciate it.
David Newman: All right Tom; it’s nice to talk to you.
 Keeping Score with
4 Nicholas Hooper

Used by permission.

Nicholas Hooper.

N
icholas Hooper had the unenviable task of following John Williams (and Pat-
rick Doyle) on one of the most popular film franchises going today—the Harry
Potter movies. In the face of daunting expectations and perhaps some unfair
pressure, Nicholas went about his duties and created respectable scores for both The
Order of the Phoenix and The Half-Blood Prince, two soundtracks that represent his
style as opposed to that of his predecessors in the franchise.
I caught up with Nicholas during the time of each score release (2007, Phoenix; 2009,
Half-Blood Prince) to talk about the new, more dramatic turns that the music in the
Harry Potter films was embarking on. . .

29
30 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

Nicholas Hooper (2007)

ScoreNotes: How did you first become involved with the scoring duties on Harry Potter
and the Order of the Phoenix?
Nicholas Hooper: David Yates, who is the director, is someone I’ve worked with for
many years; I’ve done most of his scores. When he took on Harry Potter, he wanted to
use me as the composer. So he asked if he could do so, and we had to go through quite a
long process of giving [the producers] demos, showing them music and eventually per-
suading them that it would be a good idea. Finally, after a couple of months, we got the
go ahead, and off we went!
ScoreNotes: Were you a fan of the novels and/or the film series before you were brought
on board?
Nicholas Hooper: Well oddly enough, I was. I read the first Harry Potter shortly after it
came out and was completely hooked and have been a fan ever since. When I met my
wife, I discovered she was a fan and that pulled us together a bit. They are wonderful
books, amazing themes which go quite deep, really. Although they seem like children’s
books, I think they are actually far more interesting than a lot of adult books.
ScoreNotes: Indeed, there seems to be an almost even fan base between children and
adult readers. When it came to scoring the films, how difficult was it for you to pick up
the series in a fifth installment?
Nicholas Hooper: It could have been difficult, but David’s help and the fact he knew the
kind of music he wanted made a huge difference. Following John Williams is always
kind of a bit forbidding, really, because he is such a great composer, but I had his theme
to work with, which I enjoyed doing, too.
ScoreNotes: As far as the themes themselves, what can fans expect from The Order of
the Phoenix? Will all the famous Potter themes be returning?
Nicholas Hooper: The most famous one will return, which is the Hedwig theme. I used
that at the front of the film where you’d expect it, and then during a lot of the important
dramatic points in the movie, it appears almost disguised; you just hear it coming in.
Otherwise, I’d have to say the music will be different; the mood of the film is darker.
There are some very strong characters, like Professor Umbridge, who has her own
theme, which purveys a lot of the movie. There is the business of the possession of
Harry by Voldemort gradually through the film, and that has its own theme, which
again is very different. Dumbledore’s Army has its own theme. So the music is different,
but the film is different. . .so it goes with it, really.
 Ch ap t er 4 Keeping Score w i t h N i c h o l a s H o o p e r 31

ScoreNotes: Was it sort of a double-edged sword arriving aboard a film franchise that
already had an existing base of music you had to build off of?
Nicholas Hooper: Yes, although what I would say is that it’s not the same as many
franchises in the fact that the books develop. So, it’s not like this is a sequel to something
everybody has heard before. The books are changing, so the films will change. It’s a very
different feeling from, say, a Batman 4 [laughs].
ScoreNotes: [Laughing] Very true. Now, going into this project, you were entering one
of the premiere movie franchises going today. Did you have a personal strategy on how
to manage expectations?
Nicholas Hooper: Well. . .I thought I did [laughs]. Our plan was to write a lot of music
early on, get into it very early, and get a wonderful musical structure that was all work-
ing. Things being as they are, the film changed shape, and the music grew and changed
shape with it. In the end, it was quite a rush to the finishing post. I had a great team. I
think that was one of the important things. I had a team of orchestrators who trans-
ferred my MIDI files into music. I had, for the first time, an assistant who looked after
all the technical aspects, a fantastic orchestra. . .just support all the way from the pro-
ducers to the director to everybody. That was the best strategy of all, I think.
ScoreNotes: I would say that would be the best strategy for any movie!
Nicholas Hooper: Absolutely. We had no trouble in the sense of people interfering and
trying to make us go in different directions. Everybody was on board, everybody knew
what was going on, and we had nothing but support as a result. I think that’s partly due
to David Yates, who is just so good at pulling everybody together and making it work.

Nicholas Hooper (2009)

ScoreNotes: What is the direction you steered the music in for Harry Potter and the
Half-Blood Prince?
Nicholas Hooper: It comes from two places, really. First of all, we came up with an
idea, which was a setting of some words by the scriptwriter, both in English and in
Latin. We set this for choir and called it “In Noctem.” This was going to be in the
film but then unfortunately got cut since the length of that particular sequence was
too long at the end film. But what we did was take the middle Latin chant out of it,
and it became a kind of DNA for the score, and it follows Dumbledore’s journey in the
film. So that’s one big strand of the film. The other one is the reintroduction of the
Possession theme from the previous film when Harry is possessed by Voldemort,
which again finds its way in subtle ways through the score.
32 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

ScoreNotes: What did you find to be the most exciting aspects of writing the score for
this Harry Potter installment?
Nicholas Hooper: Well, there are quite a few—and exciting isn’t quite the right word—
the love theme is one. There’s more love interest in this [movie]. I really enjoyed writing
the sad scene with Harry and Hermione when they’re supporting each other in their
grief for the people they love going off with others. The other one I loved doing is
when Ginny kisses Harry in the Room of Requirements. Those were exciting. The
Cave one was also a great moment as the [characters] race across the sea, and the
music is building and building to this huge climax as they enter the cave.
The Half-Blood Prince is not what you would call an exciting film in the sense of lots of
big action sequences. It’s much more of a moving, subtle film. Like when Dumbledore
died and they’re all raising their wands in the courtyard. That was a very wonderful
moment for me to try and get that right and make it absolutely heartrending.
One more that was great to do and interesting was when the dead bodies come out the
water. I had a chance to do some very, very dissonant and very unusual music, sort of
taking on my experiences of listening to the early twentieth century composers I always
loved so much but hadn’t a chance to use very much in my own scores.
ScoreNotes: It sounds like there was quite a diverse palette at work in the Half-Blood
Prince, which must have been a joy to write.
Nicholas Hooper: Yes, it was. But, interestingly enough, there’s also more unity of
themes than there was in The Order of the Phoenix. Malfoy has his theme that runs
through. And as I said, so does Dumbledore, so does Harry. So the themes are more
constant. But you’re right, there is a diversity in it, which made it very exciting to write
and very interesting to do. It’s a real palette, yeah.
ScoreNotes: What was it like working with director David Yates on this Potter film as
compared to the previous installment?
Nicholas Hooper: As always, very creative, huge amounts of input from David. There
was a very tight schedule this time, so getting access to him just to talk about things and
feedback was difficult. And it was kind of very last minute. But as always, we came up
with the goods together. He’s a very inspiring man. Just looking at his work in the film,
the fantastic acting he gets, it’s an inspiration itself before we even talked.
ScoreNotes: One of the neat things I find about the Harry Potter series is the consistency
it brings with retaining the same acting crew, for the most part, throughout the duration
of the movies. How unique is it for a film franchise of today to retain its core talent all
the way through?
 Ch ap t er 4 Keeping Score w i t h N i c h o l a s H o o p e r 33

Nicholas Hooper: I think it must be almost completely unique. I’m not a great expert,
but in a series like Terminator, I have noticed the complete change except for Arnold
Schwarzenegger himself, so in that sense, it doesn’t seem to match up. And of course,
James Bond changes all the time. So I think it must be unique. And it has, I think, given
the actors a chance to develop their characters, which is quite amazing, really.
ScoreNotes: How pleased are you with the results of the soundtrack for The Half-Blood
Prince?
Nicholas Hooper: Oh, very pleased. A soundtrack is a chance for the composer to
maybe pull back some of the things he really liked for the score that had to be missed
out or slightly suppressed in the mix because it clashed with the dialogue or whatever. It
gave me a chance to make the music really shine and work very well, so I was very
pleased with it.
I had a chance to include the choral piece I mentioned in its complete form, and I put it
quite close to the front of the CD, although that particular piece wasn’t in film order, so
that the listener had a chance to hear this theme, which actually purveys the whole score
in its original form. So that was exciting. Mainly the CD is in film order this time, which
it wasn’t last, because it works so well!
There is a piece of jazz quite close to the front of the soundtrack CD that should be great
fun for people to listen to that actually didn’t make it onto the score. But apart from
that, as you get later into the CD, I really get into the development of the music and the
way it emotionally pulls you in. . .which I’m very, very pleased with.
ScoreNotes: The soundtrack sounds like it will make a most excellent companion to the
film itself!
Nicholas Hooper: Yes, with a few extra bits and pieces.
ScoreNotes: In a broad sense, what has working on Harry Potter meant to your per-
sonal development and career opportunities?
Nicholas Hooper: It has meant that I’ve developed skills, colors, and a type of musical
muscle that I didn’t have before, I think. . .and a toughness. It’s a very, very tough job
doing Harry Potter. Going back and doing other smaller things is so much easier and so
much more of a joy really, not so much of a struggle. I think it’s just pulled me on,
really!
In terms of my career, it’s difficult to tell yet; it’s still early days. It takes years for things
to happen in films before they start filtering through. But I certainly have some very
good projects I’m working on now. So I’m loving it, really.
This page intentionally left blank
 Keeping Score with
5 Andrew Lockington

Photo by Jag Gundu.

Andrew Lockington, Journey to the Center of the Earth orchestra sessions, Air Studios Lyndhurst,
October 2007.

T
here are times in the life of a soundtrack fan when he or she will be immediately
drawn to a particular style or talent even if the composer is fairly new in the
ranks. It took Andrew Lockington just one score to win me over.
In the summer of 2008, a surprising bright spot rose up from the busy season of ram-
paging blockbusters, and that would be Lockington’s Journey to the Center of the
Earth. His campy score was full of pep and wonder, and made for a soundtrack option
that immediately stood out as a high-value pick.
Later in the year, Andrew further cemented his status as an extraordinary talent with the
music he provided for the underrated family film, City of Ember. His score for this
feature had a strong fantasy slant to it with its highly memorable themes and heartfelt

35
36 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

underscore. Specifically, Lina Mayfleet’s theme is a true stand-out! It’s a motif that has
an honest, innocent charm to it and is completely endearing when heard in the film and
on the soundtrack.
In the following interview, taken specifically for this book, Andrew tells us how he got
his start in this field, discusses the emerging trends in film composing, and shares
insightful background about his recent scores. . .

Andrew Lockington (2009)

ScoreNotes: Can you please share your background in music and what the deciding
factors were that led you into composing?
Andrew Lockington: When I was a little kid I wanted to be a pilot. I was fascinated with
everything and anything to do with airplanes. My grandfathers had both been in the
U.S. Air Force during WWII, and I’m sure I used to exhaust them with questions about
flying. Playing music was a distant second in the occupation race.
Somewhere along the line music took over, though I’m not really aware of when that
was. I was always that kid who played piano. I wasn’t very disciplined at practicing but
had the ability to “lift” music from the radio, television, and movies and play it on the
piano. I guess it was a bit of a party trick in public school, and it kind of grew from
there.
In high school, I joined a band and got into the rock music world. After playing with a
few high school bands, I auditioned for a spot in a professional band. The other mem-
bers were all in their mid to late twenties, and here I was, barely 15, sporting a blazer
with the biggest shoulder pads I could find. Being under 19, I wasn’t legally allowed to
enter most of the venues we played, let alone work in them. But the other band members
looked out for me. More than once, they stepped in when a drunk club patron decided I
didn’t belong. Playing in the band was a blast, and a dream come true at the time.
Though now that I have kids of my own, I can imagine how my parents felt about
the whole thing. I remember the drummer would always pick me up in his big blue
pickup truck after school, and we’d head out of town to a gig for the weekend. It
must have been strange for them to see me go away for days at a time like that.
To this day, I’m convinced they did me the biggest favor by letting me be in that band. I
had planned on being in the club scene full time after high school. As luck would have it,
the group broke up around the time university applications were due. At that point, I’d
been playing in clubs for about three years, and I’d had enough of the lifestyle. The
timing was perfect for me to change paths, and I chose to study music at university
instead. If they’d kept me from the experience, I surely would have dived head first
 Chapter 5 Keeping Score with Andrew Lockington 37

into that world as soon as high school was over. As it was, I was done with it in time to
choose university as my path. Actually, now that I think of it, there was one other career
possibility I considered. Being an architect was a dream of mine at one point. I even took
all of the architecture and drafting courses that were offered.
In hindsight, the world is probably much safer because I chose music instead of archi-
tecture or flying.
ScoreNotes: What were some of the initial challenges that you might have faced as you
entered the business?
Andrew Lockington: I still find it funny to think of it as a business. I guess I’ve never
really thought of it as work. Work is physical labor, writing an essay, doing your taxes,
rocking a baby back to sleep in the middle of the night.
Music is like those fun school projects you used to have in high school, the one’s where
you’d get so motivated and excited by it you couldn’t believe it counted for marks. Those
were the assignments where you’d shoot a video presentation, build a model, make a
rocket—things like that. Writing music just doesn’t feel like work to me. How could
something that’s work be so much fun? That’s how I think of film composing. . .
even now.
Initial challenges? There were a lot. I remember one of the first films I worked on; I
rented $20,000 worth of equipment from the local music store. According to the pay-
ment structure of my film contract, I was owed a third of my fee upfront. But the pro-
duction accountant was very slow and waited the entire 30 days before paying my
invoice. At one point, I had so much equipment rented out, the owner of the store called
me in to ask what was going on. I explained the situation to him and assured him that
I’d be purchasing much of the equipment once my paycheck came in. After considering
calling in all of his rentals, the owner decided to let me continue renting his gear. To this
day, there’s still a note on my store account—it comes up whenever I’m buying some-
thing—it reads “seems trustworthy.” It’s funny to think of now, but back then I was
really flying by the seat of my pants.
After four years of university, I was still a few credits short of graduating. I decided to
move to the big city and started working as a freelance jingle writer. The money was
pretty good, but it just didn’t give me the creative outlet I was hoping for, so one day
about a year into it, I woke up in the morning and decided to give it all up to pursue film
composing. It was a bit of a blind-leap move, but it somehow worked out.
I was very fortunate to convince a successful film composer, Mychael Danna, to hire me
as his assistant. For the next six years, I assisted him on his independent and studio
38 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

films, orchestrated a few projects for him, and we co-wrote a few others. I learned an
enormous amount working with Mychael in those six years. It allowed me to experience
the film music world from the inside, and acquire valuable music credits along the way.
It was by far the most important step in the path that led me into the business.
Among the important things I learned at that time is that having talent is only one part
of the equation. There are a lot of very talented composers out there who struggle to
make a living in the industry. We all need to be as much business people as composers to
make a living, and we need to put at least as much energy into making and keeping
relationships with producers and directors as we do into writing music.
ScoreNotes: I first heard your work in Journey to the Center of the Earth [2008] and
was immediately drawn to your style. Do you feel that this film provided you with a nice
opportunity to introduce your thematic writing to the film music world?
Andrew Lockington: Journey was a great opportunity to re-visit the style of film scoring
that I was exposed to as a kid. The director (Eric Brevig) was looking for a score that
would have the same impact as an “Indiana Jones” or an “ET” score would. He had
spent many years in Hollywood working with the likes of Steven Spielberg, George
Lucas, Michael Bay. He wanted a very thematic score that his viewers would have a
relationship with, and hopefully be humming when they left the theater.
Very strong thematic melodies and scores have always been my favorite scores to listen
to, so Journey offered me an opportunity to explore that in a very unbashful way. While
the film is a very modern, present-day film, it didn’t hide its relationship to the adven-
ture movies of the past, so that allowed the score to exist in a traditional strong the-
matic/orchestral way and get away with it.
ScoreNotes: Journey to the Center of the Earth was presented as a 3D feature in thea-
ters. Did you have to take any special considerations about the 3D aspect of the film as
you wrote the score?
Andrew Lockington: Had you asked me that question two years ago I would have
laughed, but it was surprising how much impact the 3D aspect of the visuals had on
the score. My studio isn’t set up for 3D, so I would write to a traditional two-dimen-
sional visual most of the time. Eric would encourage me to see the 3D version whenever
possible, and, sure enough, it would impact what I was writing. I was amazed at how
much the visuals would come alive in 3D. Several times after hearing my score applied
to a 3D picture, I would take notice of something happening onscreen that deserved to
be acknowledged in the score. The 3D viewing sessions proved to be very useful.
 Chapter 5 Keeping Score with Andrew Lockington 39

ScoreNotes: In general, what is your opinion on the new wave of 3D technology that is
emerging within movies, and might this movement affect the art of composing in any way?
Andrew Lockington: I love it. I think over time it will become the norm, especially once
technology advances beyond the point of wearing glasses. The scenes in Journey that
took advantage of the 3D aspect for excitement were a lot of fun, but I must say I was
most impacted by the helicopter shots of landscapes or the simple shots of characters’
faces. It really felt like you had more of a relationship with the characters in 3D. Eric
told me that recent studies have proven watching something in 3D wakes up parts of the
brain that normally aren’t used in watching a traditional two-dimensional image. I think
3D is definitely the new direction for feature films.
ScoreNotes: When it comes to films that are tabbed as remakes or a re-imagined fran-
chise, do you feel that referencing the source material helps the composer, or is it best to
take a fresh approach with these types of projects?
Andrew Lockington: It would depend on the film. For Journey to the Center of the
Earth, we decided very early on the film would not pay homage to the Pat Boone ver-
sion. It never attempts to be a remake of that film. Jules Verne’s book is even a character
in our film. As a composer, I definitely preferred it that way. It allowed me to explore
the themes of the story through music without having to work around previous musical
ideas.
That said, I recently saw the new Star Trek film by J. J. Abrams and found myself lis-
tening to the music hoping to hear the original Star Trek theme. It finally showed up
during the closing credits, which I thought was very appropriate.
ScoreNotes: I’d like to touch on your work for City of Ember, a film that I found to be
refreshingly fun and heartfelt. Can you comment on some of the various themes that
you featured in the score?
Andrew Lockington: Writing the score to City of Ember was a very challenging and
rewarding experience. I was hired on to that film at the very end of the post-production
process. When I signed on, the Abbey Road recording sessions were already booked and
only a month away. The first thing I did was call my orchestrator, Nicholas Dodd. The
conversation went something like this:

Andrew: “Nicholas, I’ve just signed on to do City of Ember, but it’s a really
quick turnaround.”
Nicholas: “Fantastic!”
Andrew: “How quickly can you get the score orchestrated?”
40 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

Nicholas: “If you can start sending me cues about a month before the session
that would be fine.”
Andrew: “One month before? That was yesterday!”
Nicholas: “Okay, send me what cues you have right now.”
Andrew: “Right now? I just got hired 15 minutes ago.”
Nicholas: “Right. Okay. This one’s going to be tight.”

Photo by Neil Parfitt.

Orchestrator Nicholas Dodd with composer Andrew Lockington after the last day of recording for
City of Ember. Abbey Road Studios, London, August 2008.

In the end, I wrote the bulk of the score in three weeks. It must have been floating
around inside my head because it came very quickly.
The first thing I did was write three themes. The first theme I wrote was the theme we
hear in the opening sequence of the film. I call it the “Ember” theme (I know. . .not a very
creative name). It’s meant to establish a dark, ominous, musical soundscape representing
the darkness and dread of the city. The second theme is the “Lina” theme, tied directly to
the main character of the film. It has a sense of lightness and intelligence and innocence to
it that serves to help it contrast with the City of Ember theme. The last theme is the
“Hope” theme. It gets used the least of the three themes but is a crucial piece of the
puzzle. It represents a utopia beyond Ember, both in their dreams and in reality.
 Chapter 5 Keeping Score with Andrew Lockington 41

The tight writing timeline meant I had immediate access to the producers and director
whenever I needed it. The music supervisor, Lindsay Fellows, did an incredible job of
wrangling everyone together to review the music. Fortunately for me, everyone was on
board with two of the three themes immediately. The Lina theme ended up needing to
be rewritten. I was disappointed to have to go back to the drawing board on that one
because I’d quite liked the first draft of her theme. But about two hours after the request
came to rewrite it, I had a new Lina theme to present that I was even more happy with. I
played it for them, and they instantly loved it. It’s one of my favorite themes I think, and
I’m grateful I was asked to rework it.
It’s an important thing to remember as a composer. A good composer can write a great
score when given carte blanche by the film makers. But just as often that same composer
can write an even better score when challenged by his collaborators. I’ve lived through
solid examples of both scenarios through the years and come to appreciate the potential
of the director/composer collaboration much more than I used to.
ScoreNotes: The movie featured a “race against the clock” storyline. How did you
incorporate this facet of the plot into the music?
Andrew Lockington: From the beginning, it was made clear to me that this “race against
the clock” element was the most important responsibility of the score. I was told “big-
ger, harder, faster” so often it was written on a Post-it note and stuck to the top of my
computer monitor.
One of my first calls was to my programmer, Michael White. I had worked with this
amazing synth programmer on Journey, and I instantly knew he would be a great asset
to me for City of Ember. We came up with some analog synth/moog motifs that would
bubble and tick underneath the score through much of the film precisely to elicit the
feeling of time ticking down, counting down the final days of life of the city’s generator.
The generator plays an important role in the story because it is what brings life to the city.
It is this gargantuan, almost living, breathing machine that keeps breaking down. The
moog rhythms serve to emulate its importance whenever the generator isn’t onscreen.
One of the reasons it was really important to incorporate this ticking element into the
music is that many of the characters in the film are oblivious to the fact the city is dying.
Thus, their performances onscreen appropriately lack the anxiousness we as the audience
are feeling for them. It was important to give contrast to those performances and keep the
“race against the clock” feeling at the forefront of the audiences’ minds.
ScoreNotes: Do you feel that City of Ember might be the type of film that will emerge as
a pleasant surprise to viewers once it makes a run on cable television?
42 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

Andrew Lockington: I hope so. I think it’s such a fascinating story. I hope more people
catch on to it.
ScoreNotes: To further accentuate your productive and impressive year in 2008, you
received an award by the International Film Music Critics Association as the “Breakout
Composer of the Year.” Can you share your thoughts about that recognition?
Andrew Lockington: It was a huge surprise. The other nominees were incredibly tal-
ented composers who’d done amazing scores for equally amazing films. I didn’t expect
to win the award but appreciated being nominated in such good company. Winning was
quite a shock.
To be honest, the payoff for me comes in the problem-solving aspect of film score writing.
By the time I’ve recorded and mixed a score, and worked through the challenges that were
presented, I already feel rewarded. Having a movie make a quarter billion dollars at the
box office and then having the score be so well received is just the icing on the cake.
You know, I have such a personal relationship with my music that I don’t think I’ll ever
understand how others relate to it as well. But as long as they can take something pos-
itive away from it, and it helps tell the story of the film, I’m happy.
ScoreNotes: Is it safe to say that you are the type of composer who genuinely enjoys
writing strong thematic material?
Andrew Lockington: For sure. I love music that elicits an emotional response—whether
that be joy, sadness, excitement, or humor—some music just latches onto our psyche a
bit deeper than everything else. For me, strong thematic scores do exactly that, and if
done right, provide their audience with enough familiarity with the theme for it to set up
an incredibly emotional experience at the end of the film.
ScoreNotes: What are some of the subtleties that go into film music that perhaps the
average viewer is not aware of?
Andrew Lockington: I think many viewers are unaware of themes, unaware that they’re
hearing the same three or four themes through an entire score. I’ve had more than one
occasion where the producers have heard a new cue for the first time and immediately
loved it, even hummed along. They couldn’t figure out why they liked it so much, and,
of course, that was because it was using a theme they were familiar with and had a
relationship with already.
In film scoring, building a unique, brand-new cue around a theme the viewer has heard
before gives them the experience of hearing something new that they (hopefully)
instantly like.
 Chapter 5 Keeping Score with Andrew Lockington 43

ScoreNotes: On a personal level, how intense does it become for you when you’re in the
midst of a scoring project?
Andrew Lockington: It gets pretty intense. I’ve learned to plan my days and hours very
carefully. I’ve learned to really pace myself, breaking the schedule down into minutes
that need to be written each day. While one two-minute cue might take a lot longer to
compose than another, I always know where I stand in the schedule if I break it down
that way.
Someone once told me it only takes two minutes to write a two-minute cue. Most of our
time is spent waiting for those two minutes to happen.
ScoreNotes: You have a rather unique setup in that you are based in Canada yet so
many films are made in Los Angeles. How has that been working out for you, and
do you foresee a time when you might relocate?
Andrew Lockington: I spend a lot of time in Los Angeles, and for sure there will be
projects that require me to be physically there for post-production, but so far it’s
worked quite well keeping my writing studio in Toronto. I’m a morning person, usually
getting going in my studio by 5:00 or 5:30 a.m. I find I can often get seven or eight hours
of work done before morning hits on the West Coast and my phone starts ringing.
Those morning writing hours are very precious to me. I’d have to rejig my schedule
to work on the West Coast.

Photo by Christy Lockington.

Kaya, Andrew, and Cielle Lockington at a screening of Journey to the Center of the Earth.
44 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

ScoreNotes: Has your work on Journey to the Center of the Earth and City of Ember
provided any new opportunities or connections for you?
Andrew Lockington: They have. I’m just getting started on Eric Brevig’s next film, and I
have a lot of friendships with people I met on those projects. I look forward to collab-
orating with them again soon.
ScoreNotes: As we close here, what are some future goals that you might have set for
yourself as you peer ahead toward new opportunities?
Andrew Lockington: I would love to continue to work on new and interesting projects. I
know that sounds like a cliché answer, but I truthfully find I’m at my most creative
when I’m sailing unchartered musical territory. I love scoring a type of film that I’ve
never scored before, or approaching something familiar in an untraditional way. That’s
how I do my best work. Most importantly, it has to always be as much fun as it is now.
Sometimes I feel like the parents are going to come in the room and break up the party.
The minute it feels like work, it’ll be time to find another job. Hopefully, that day never
comes.
 Keeping Score with Marco
6 Beltrami

Photo by Randall Michelson.

Marco Beltrami.

A
fter earning his initiation on the Scream films, Marco Beltrami has steadily
worked his way toward becoming one of the top film composers of today’s
generation. In fact, the more I hear his work, the more I know that he has a
profound sense of what works musically in a film. Marco has the ability of calmly stay-
ing focused within the roots of a particular movie’s need and not venturing astray. He’s
disciplined and talented, and that, my friends, leads to success.
Marco was nominated for an Academy Award for his music on 3:10 to Yuma, a rather
successful remake that captured quite a bit of praise all around. In this interview, we
discuss what went into that score while also covering Marco’s other prominent works
including Terminator 3, Die Hard 4, Knowing, and more. . .

45
46 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

Marco Beltrami (2007/2009)

ScoreNotes: 3:10 to Yuma received praise as a film that restored a little glory back to the
Western genre. What can you tell us about your experience on the film?
Marco Beltrami: First of all, it’s one of the most fun projects I’ve worked on. Though
the film was very aware of its heritage, there was no pressure to copy any stylizations of
the past. In fact, [director] Jim [Mangold] really wanted to create something new. I tried
to approach the score by using only instruments that could have been around at the time
the film took place, and then Buck Sanders and I manipulated them to create a more
modern setting.
ScoreNotes: How rewarding was it to be involved with a western like Yuma in a day
and age where Westerns aren’t made with regularity anymore?
Marco Beltrami: My dream has always been to work on a Western. In fact, I think I
have probably approached many of the films I’ve worked on as Westerns (sometimes
unbeknownst to the filmmakers), in the sense of a lone hero struggling against a forbid-
ding environment. The fact that here I could “legally” pay homage to some of the great
traditions that [Ennio] Morricone created was inspiring.
ScoreNotes: What aspects of the film’s storyline did you feel offered the peak scoring
opportunities for you?
Marco Beltrami: There were a couple sequences that were a lot of fun to work on. There
was the scene towards the end of the movie when they’re running over the rooftops and
having a gunfight and getting away to the train. The momentum of the picture really
allowed the music to speak and have fun with some of the thematic elements that had
been brewing all along. Another moment is at the end of the movie when Ben Wade
rides off in the train. The strong character development allowed the music to have
strong, identifiable, simple motives. Ben Wade’s theme is just three notes. Simple guitar
harmonics comprise Dan’s theme. And a manipulated acoustic guitar identify Charlie
Wade and the band of thieves.
ScoreNotes: How rewarding a feeling was it to see 3:10 to Yuma finish at the top spot at
the box office?
Marco Beltrami: It always makes you feel good when something you really believe in
and invest a lot of energy into receives the attention of others. Sort of a validation I
guess. You know, we’re sort of an insecure bunch.
ScoreNotes: Moving on to another successful film of yours—what did you enjoy most
about working on Live Free or Die Hard?
 C h a pt e r 6 Keeping Score w i t h M a r c o Be l tr a mi 47

Marco Beltrami: Probably the idea of paying homage to Michael Kamen’s scores, but
doing so in a way that wouldn’t scare the studio. Len liked the idea, but as it was a big-
release action movie, Fox wanted to be sure it wouldn’t sound too dated, so my chal-
lenge was to sort of take this little simple motive that Michael Kamen came up with for
the John McClane character and write a modern-day version.
ScoreNotes: How difficult is it to write music for a film that has a built-in blockbuster
status as compared to a movie with a modest budget?
Marco Beltrami: The biggest challenge is that usually on a big-budget movie, more peo-
ple are involved. Working on 3:10 to Yuma, I dealt with the director and that was pretty
much it. And that’s often the case with smaller movies. On a bigger movie, there’s often
different studio executives and producers who come. I guess there is a little bit more fear
involved; there’s a lot more money that’s involved. It’s not as easy to take chances with
the music as it is perhaps in a smaller-budget film. There’s often a temp score that is put
down in the movie that has been cut and they know works with the film. There’s often a
tendency not to stray too far from that for the final score.
ScoreNotes: Do you have a preference, be it by genre or budget, with the types of movies
you like to work on?
Marco Beltrami: Genre-wise, I’m not that concerned. I’m more concerned with the
movie itself being a good movie and presenting possibilities to me, the composer. I
think the only type of movie that I really didn’t enjoy that much was a comedy I did
awhile back. I’m not crazy about writing musical sound effects and short little tag cues.
Other than that, as long as I’m able to explore musical ideas throughout the score and
have the chance to contribute something, and the film is good and inspiring, then the
type of film doesn’t really matter to me.
ScoreNotes: Writing sound effects can’t be too inspiring for a composer.
Marco Beltrami: No, it’s not. If you have a good sound department, you can work with
them and create [sound effects] that work hand in hand together. But when the com-
poser is asked to comment on the action by doing little musical sound effects, that’s not
that rewarding.
ScoreNotes: What would you say was your breakthrough film?
Marco Beltrami: The first movie I did that really anybody would have seen is Scream,
back in 1996. That’s sort of what gave me the spot with Dimension/Miramax Films
back then and gave me an in to work on a bunch of films and sort of cut my teeth.
And then I branched off from there.
48 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

ScoreNotes: As far as science fiction and disaster sagas go, where would you rank a
movie like Knowing? I found it to be an underrated, effective film that grew larger in
scope the deeper one got into it.
Marco Beltrami: I believe Alex [Proyas] to be one of the great storytellers of cinema and
part of that is due to his innovative spirit. His projects are ambitious and require a lot of
elements to come together harmoniously. I had heard that there were some who took
issue with various visual portrayals, but to me that never detracted from the depth and
breadth of his voice. I was hooked in and know many others feel the same.
ScoreNotes: Can you touch on the subway scene in the film, specifically where you have
that menacing yet playful melody pacing Nicolas Cage’s search for the terrorist?
Marco Beltrami: This is a great sequence from an intensity standpoint. Nick’s theme is a
12-tone row, which like his mathematical obsession, sounds like a jumble when the
notes are played all together. As they string out, however, they form a multi-meter
rhythmic drive that forms the relentless structure for the cue and mimics his confusion
and momentum.
ScoreNotes: In what ways does working with a visually inspiring director like Alex
Proyas inspire your work?
Marco Beltrami: Alex inspires me to find the crux, or the hinge, that allows the music to
work. It’s like a puzzle, or the laws of nature, where scientists are always trying to find
the one simple rule from which all others are derived. I think Alex does this in his films,
and similarly inspires me to. We often joke that finally when we both get it right, his
movies will just be one frame and my music just one note. This is the reason to write
music!
ScoreNotes: You’ve built quite a respectable reputation for yourself by the work you’ve
done over the years. Looking ahead, is there anything specific you hope to achieve in
your career?
Marco Beltrami: My kids really want me to do a children’s movie.
 Keeping Score with
7 Geoff Zanelli

Photo by Suzie Katayam, taken at Paramount’s former

Stage M.

Geoff Zanelli.

T
here are some who would say that fully thematic film scores are slowly becom-
ing a lost art. If that is indeed true, thank goodness composer Geoff Zanelli is on
duty.
Geoff has impressed me very early on with his ability to craft themes that are strong,
memorable, and at times quite moving. I also think the further along he gets within the
business, the more he will be known for excelling in this thematic vein. I submit that the
main theme from Outlander, his contributions in the Pirates of the Caribbean films, and
the love motif from Hitman are prime examples of his composing strength and suggest
an extremely bright future in the business.
This is a 2009 interview with Geoff in which he talks about the values and challenges of
collaborating, the musical contributions to Pirates, the fundamentals behind the Out-
lander score, and more. . .

49
50 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

Geoff Zanelli (2009)

ScoreNotes: You’ve quietly worked on some of the biggest blockbusters that modern
Hollywood has produced. What has the collaborative journey been like for you thus far?
Geoff Zanelli: In a word, enriching. I remember being deliberate about how I’d go about
getting things going before I moved back to LA to start my career. I had a lot of peers
who were taking the lone wolf approach, maybe going after student films for the expe-
rience, things like that, but I took a different road. It occurred to me that the most val-
uable lessons you can learn as a young film composer were learned in the meetings
between accomplished filmmakers. What I was wondering was what do Ridley Scott
and Hans Zimmer say to each other when they talk about music? How does Jeffrey
Katzenberg or Jerry Bruckheimer talk about film? Without knowing anyone at all in
the industry, it took some extra persistence, but I got an internship at Remote Control
Productions, which is Hans Zimmer’s studio. I was 18 years old on the other side of the
door during those big music meetings thinking, “Let me in that room!” I really wanted
to know what was going on in there!
John Powell, who had his writing room here at Hans’s place, took me on as his assistant,
which was a big step for me. That’s when I started doing arrangements for John and
getting some experience with collaborations like that. After a few years, I was given a
writing room of my own and got to collaborate with Hans and the other guys, Harry
Gregson-Williams and Steve Jablonsky for instance, and see firsthand how each of those
guys works. It didn’t take long for me to be in demand as an arranger. Over time, I built
up more and more experience on all sorts of films.
ScoreNotes: What would you say are the key factors to a productive musical
partnership?
Geoff Zanelli: Trust, mutual respect, and a ceasefire! You don’t always get all three, but
I’ve been lucky; nearly everyone I’ve worked with has a similar desire to collaborate.
That’s probably the most unique thing about the group of talent I’ve fallen in with;
we’re able to work together.
ScoreNotes: It’s always a fun test for the fan of a composer to try and pick up on the
additional music that was contributed to a film. Are you at liberty to discuss some of
your contributions on the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy?
Geoff Zanelli: I am. On the first film, we had a very short schedule, which is why it ended
up that there were so many guys on board. Four weeks at most, it might have even been
three. For that film, I was mostly doing arrangements of Hans’s themes—like the first part
of the ship-to-ship sequence was my own re-imagining “He’s A Pirate” from the album.
“He’s A Pirate” is something I worked on, too, actually. Hans had written da sketch of
 C h a pt e r 7 Keeping Score w i t h G e of f Z a n e l l i 51

this long suite of themes for the film, which he released in an interview a few years back,
and it comes from that. It was in demo form, so the fans who are really curious about this
stuff can go listen to that demo and compare that to “He’s A Pirate” from the first album.
They’ll hear the evolution of that piece. So the demo is what it was when it left Hans’s
hands, and the final is what it is after my arrangement and production, the orchestra’s
performance, and Alan Meyerson’s mix. I fleshed that tune out for the film, and did the
same for the sequence when the cursed pirates reveal their curse to Elizabeth and freak her
out. We called that sequence “Moonlight Serenade,” but I don’t think that’s the title it has
on the album.
When the second film came around, most of us from Curse of the Black Pearl were
brought back to work on it. This is where I got to write some thematic material for
the trilogy. There was a whole sequence on Cannibal Island, and I wrote the piece
that plays when we’re introduced to that locale. There were also a few Jack Sparrow
music moments on Cannibal Island, which I worked on using Hans’s theme.
I also did both of the frantic Kraken attack cues. Hans had written a bare-bones col-
lection of riffs and tunes and frantic bits for the Kraken scenes, which we mapped those
scenes out with, and then I went in and finished them by arranging them for the orches-
tra and building up the rest of the arrangement. Some of it was literally just a synth bass
and a kick drum when I first got it!
Tia Dalma also appears in the second film, and I wrote her theme as well. She had a
relatively small part, and I did a little motif for her with a female vocal when they row to
her house in the swamp.
So when the third film came around, that’s when I got to go and expand that melody.
Tia Dalma becomes Calypso and has, literally, a bigger role in the film. That was great
fun, since I hadn’t really known that that little motif would have to turn into this giant
thematic moment for the third film. That tune plays all over the place in the third film,
so in a way, as the series went deeper, I had more and more involvement.
Then I did a few bits near the start of the film, like when we’re heading to Sao Feng’s
place through when Elizabeth is strip searched. Oh! And the seduction sequence, when
Sao Feng tries to seduce Elizabeth later on, after mistaking her for Calypso.
ScoreNotes: I first started following your solo career with your work on Disturbia.
What are some of your recollections about the score you wrote for that film?
Geoff Zanelli: I met D.J. Caruso before he shot the film, so it was early in the process.
We hit it off right away and went over our ideas for the score, most of which made it
into the film.
52 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

Disturbia is about a teenager named Kale who takes up spying on his neighbors while
he’s on house arrest. So since it had voyeurism as a core part of the plot, there would be
some scenes where the audience is watching Kale watch someone. Well, in that case he’s
pretty passive, just watching, so all the intensity in the film has to come from the music.
It has to play the tension that’s in Kale’s head, so I talked with D.J. about my idea to use
the music as the kinetic element for those sequences. That happens a few different ways
in the score. When he’s watching the cute girl next door go swimming, I’m playing the
thrill and mystery Kale feels. Then later in the film, when he thinks he sees a different
neighbor kill someone, the music is really doing the subtext there. He’s safe in his room,
but the music is now playing the panic that’s going on in his head.
Another idea D.J. and I talked about was how to handle the love story in the film. It’s
teenage love, and I thought, well, we can’t just go play some romantic orchestral music
for that, that’s not really being honest with the audience. The music of teenage love
comes from a song perspective, almost all of us have our first crushes to whatever the
big pop song is on the radio or whatever music we’re into at the time. So I thought I’d
write a love theme with that in mind, that it should feel like a song in terms of instru-
mentation and arrangement so it would feel genuine.
ScoreNotes: Is that how you ended up writing a song for Disturbia as well?
Geoff Zanelli: That’s how it ended up, yes. It was an evolution though. During the pro-
cess, we screened the film for an audience, and originally there was a song in the
sequence where Kale confesses his feelings for Ashley out on his balcony. I remember
thinking, “I’ve done this love theme which plays throughout the film everywhere but
here in the big payoff sequence!” So I went and wrote an instrumental piece for that
scene and showed D.J. You can see where this is leading. . .we ended up thinking why
not have this be the scene where the score and the songs merge? That’s where the
approach I’d taken with that theme proved itself. We got a band I’d heard and loved
called “This World Fair,” showed them the movie, played them the tune I’d written, and
they wrote the lyrics and performed the song.
ScoreNotes: I absolutely enjoyed the memorable love theme you wrote for Hitman. Can
you tell us about the importance of having a softer side, musically, in a film like that?
Geoff Zanelli: Oh, I’m glad to hear that! That’s what I liked most about my Hitman
score, too; you don’t really expect romance. It’s always great when you can have a real
contrast in your score, especially when it’s an action film. There’s a real danger of being
one-dimensional, and sometimes that’s OK, but with Hitman I saw an opportunity to
spread out a little more. It makes the violence more violent, too, actually. If you think
about, say, Kill Bill or True Romance, those both use music in a way to juxtapose some-
thing softer against incredible violence. It really resonates when you can do that.
 C h a pt e r 7 Keeping Score w i t h G e of f Z a n e l l i 53

ScoreNotes: When a film spans across multiple locations, as Hitman did, what are some
of the steps you take to ensure that a score remains cohesive?
Geoff Zanelli: You know, there’s a funny thing about writing a score, and this happens
to me nearly every time. I start out looking at a blank page, worrying about how I’m
going to make this cohesive, yet somehow that concern just gradually disappears during
the process. I can’t ever pinpoint anything I’ve done to ensure that cohesion, though, so
it’s either subconscious or it just takes care of itself by virtue of the fact that every piece
has had my hand in it. It could also be that in Hitman, the arrangements hint at the
locations we’re in, but there were two or three underlying motifs that worked their way
into most of the cues regardless of the locale.
ScoreNotes: As far as unique projects go, where would you rank Outlander on your list
of scoring assignments?
Geoff Zanelli: It’s got to be right near the top. That’s what hooked me in, actually, the
unique story. A man from space brings an alien monster to earth, but it’s set more than
1,000 years ago in Viking territory! I wondered, “How is this going to work?” You’ve
got to see it yourself, but it holds together well because it’s rooted in a classic story,
Beowulf.
ScoreNotes: At what point did you get involved in the project, and what was your initial
reaction to the material?
Geoff Zanelli: It was after they shot the film and had their edit in progress. I went over
to director Howard McCain’s edit room and met with him, the editor David Dodson,
and producers John Shimmel and Chris Roberts. They showed me an early version of
the trap sequence with the alien on fire, wreaking havoc on this Viking village, taking
heads off of people, and just generally messing things up. I’d been looking for a fantasy
film, something imaginative, since I enjoyed working on the Pirates films so much, and
this was a perfect match. And once you sit down with Howard, his enthusiasm is
contagious.
ScoreNotes: Can you tell us about the inspiration behind the key themes that you devel-
oped for the score?
Geoff Zanelli: Sure. I started with the Viking music. That’s the most “classic” of the
themes. It had to be earthly, something to root the score in so I could counterbalance the
story against it. It’s the most orchestral music in the film. People picked up on the fact
that I didn’t just go and write a big major-key heroic theme for this, and that was delib-
erate, too. It still plays heroism, but it’s “serious” music; it plays the story about the
succession of kings in a reverent way.
54 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

There was a theme for the Moorwen, our alien monsters. There’s actually two for them—
one for the monstrous aspects, which plays during the action, and another theme that is
the emotional side of the story. I needed the emotional music for a flashback sequence
where we see the Moorwen genocide that Kainan, the spaceman who brings the Moorwen
to earth on accident, took part in as a soldier.
And Kainan himself gets other-worldly music. It’s more synthetic for him, and a little
military, too. The idea is that it’s very different from the Viking music for the contrast,
different instruments—a different approach altogether. But over time as Kainan assim-
ilates into Viking culture, bits of the Viking theme start to move onto him. He earns it,
really; he earns his Vikinghood, and so the Viking instrumentation and eventually the
theme itself transfers over to him.
ScoreNotes: How important was it to have a strong main theme as the foundation of the
soundtrack?
Geoff Zanelli: Crucial, I think. There had to be this thematic music that anchors the
score in something believable and familiar so you can buy into the story. I didn’t
want the audience to feel alienated from the world; I’d rather draw them in and
make them take the journey with us instead of just sitting back and watching a
bunch of people go through it on the screen.
ScoreNotes: Can you describe some of the unique instruments that you employed for
this film?
Geoff Zanelli: I had a wide palette for this. I wanted to have no limits with what I could
use, and Howard was on board with that approach; it’s one of the things we talked
about early on. So there’s the live orchestra, but also a ton of synthesizers, some wood-
wind instruments from different cultures around the world, a Middle Eastern fiddle,
there’s a female vocal solo in a few places, an early form of harp called a lyre, and
hand drums, which are something we know the Vikings actually played. There’s even
some electric guitars in there, a few anyway, and some parts where the drums are more
like rock drums as opposed to the tribal drums that happen in other parts of the score.
ScoreNotes: Looking forward, do you think that Outlander will catch on as a cult clas-
sic among sci-fi and action fans?
Geoff Zanelli: There are a ton of people, myself included, who are interested in these
types of imaginative stories, so yes, I have a hunch it’ll catch on. The response for the
limited theatrical release has been very, very positive already. People sought this film out
once they heard about it, so that’s a good sign.
 C h a pt e r 7 Keeping Score w i t h G e of f Z a n e l l i 55

ScoreNotes: As we wrap up this discussion, can you tell us about some of the projects
you are currently working on?
Geoff Zanelli: Right now, I’m co-scoring a miniseries called The Pacific, which is a
World War II story by Steven Spielberg and Tom Hanks who also made Band of Brothers.
It’s a magnificent show! It’ll play on HBO early in 2010. I’m sharing writing duties with
Hans Zimmer and Blake Neely on it.
Also, a few months ago I co-scored a movie called Gamer, which comes out in Septem-
ber 2009. That one was co-written with Robb Williamson, and we got to be pretty
crazy, unconventional, and experimental. Definitely not the kind of thing people have
heard me do before! That film has an interesting premise, too. It’s about mind control in
the future where criminals are used as characters in these live battles, which are then
televised around the world—sort of like playing a video game, only you’re controlling
actual humans. And one of those humans is Gerard Butler, who racks up a huge body
count. It’s directed by Mark Neveldine and Brian Taylor, the same guys who directed
Crank 1 and 2, so that should give you some idea of how crazy we got to be.
That’s what’s keeping me busy nowadays.
Thanks for your interest in my scores, by the way. It’s a pleasure talking to you!
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 Keeping Score with
8 Tyler Bates

Used by permission.

Tyler Bates.

S
ince 2007, Tyler Bates has made noticeably impressive strides in his career. The
composer has, in recent years, worked on such prominent films as 300 and Watch-
men, while also delivering scores for movies like The Day the Earth Stood Still and
the Halloween remakes. The blend of blockbuster movies and cutting-edge films has
proven to be a successful one for Tyler, as are the relationships he’s forged with direc-
tors Zack Snyder and Rob Zombie. Creatively, he seems to be right at home with these
directors and their style of movies.
In this interview, we embark on a brisk journey through Tyler’s career, touching on his
earlier work and some of the key projects he’s worked on thus far in his journey, includ-
ing the intricacies of scoring a film like Watchmen. . .

Tyler Bates (2009)

ScoreNotes: At what point in your life did you have your first inkling that you wanted
to be a film composer?

57
58 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

Tyler Bates: It wasn’t until I scored my fifteenth movie or so. I worked with director
Stephen Kay on The Last Time I Committed Suicide. This was my first score that was
gratifying on an artistic level. Working with Stephen Kay was very inspiring to me, and
a hell of a lot more fun than touring low-budget in a rock band, eating Del Taco
everyday!
ScoreNotes: Growing up, what were some of the movies and film scores that made an
early impression on you?
Tyler Bates: The Exorcist, Jaws, and Halloween all left an indelible mark on me. The
simplicity of the motifs that were employed to create tension and excitement in those
films is obviously very effective. They certainly got under my skin! I also loved Jerry
Goldsmith’s score for Planet of the Apes. Amazing stuff!
ScoreNotes: I’m often curious about the route that composers have to take to make it in
the business. Can you describe the type of independent projects you were involved with
in the early part of your career?
Tyler Bates: I was willing to work on anything that kept me in music and away from
painting houses! Fortunately, I met a few directors in the beginning of their careers who
had very limited music budgets, which made me a good candidate to score their films. I
did several films for Roger Corman’s company as well as Saban. There were so many
learning experiences along the way that helped me develop a vernacular in communi-
cating with directors and producers in the context of filmmaking, and yet there was very
little I could do to hurt the quality of the films as I was learning the craft of film scoring.
ScoreNotes: Do you miss, in some part, working on smaller scale productions as com-
pared to some of the more prominent features you are now associated with?
Tyler Bates: I don’t gauge film projects by “size” or “scale” with regards to budget or
profile. I tend to lock myself into my cave [studio] and focus entirely on the task at hand,
with the director’s vision in mind. Taking into consideration the better part of my first
thirty-five film projects, I am happy scoring good films of any budget, if good people are
involved. So by all means, I am looking to work on indie films as much as any other.
ScoreNotes: Can you comment on how important it is to have a director who appre-
ciates the nuances and effectiveness of film music?
Tyler Bates: Good directors are mindful of all the details of their films. They know
precisely how to convey the essence of the film they are making, and the right composer
to help express this. It’s also pretty cool when a director understands the time and
thought that goes into creating music, especially when you receive your twelfth cut
of the movie two days before your scoring dates begin [laughs]!
 C h a pt e r 8 Keeping Score with Tyler Bates 59

ScoreNotes: Along those lines, you’ve collaborated with Zack Snyder on multiple films,
each successful in their own right. Did you know early on that he was a director who
had a unique vision to offer?
Tyler Bates: I knew Zack was special the moment I met him. He is one of those people
that you know is really good at whatever they do, even if you are not familiar with their
work.
ScoreNotes: During your early collaborations with him, at what point did discussions
about the movie 300 materialize?
Tyler Bates: Zack called me about a month after Dawn of the Dead was released
[March 2004], to discuss 300. I began writing music for his initial proposal to studios
for their support. I scored an animated short constructed from the pages of Frank Miller’s
graphic novel that was made to depict the style of film Zack wanted to make. I wrote
music for statues, look books, and the test shot Zack made for Warner Bros before they
green-lit the film. We even worked up battle cadences to condition the actors in prep-
aration to principal photography. Zack choreographed three scenes to music I wrote
along the way. It was an interesting ride, to say the least.
ScoreNotes: Looking back on it, how significant a project was 300 for you personally in
your career? Was that your biggest film at the time?
Tyler Bates: 300 was an experience of every extreme one could imagine. I would say that
it made me very much aware of the semantics of working on films that become “pop-
culture” phenomena. The business, and the process by which large-scale films are made, is
really something the average person, or film composer for that matter, cannot completely
comprehend unless they have personally been through the experience a few times.
ScoreNotes: I was pleased to see that for Zack’s next project, he selected a film that was
as ambitious, if not more so, than 300. What were your first impressions as you started
working on Watchmen with him?
Tyler Bates: The tone of the film resonated with me as I watched the first cut footage
with the editor, Bill Hoy. It was truly inspiring from the get-go. A project such as
Watchmen is a tall order to deliver, but Zack gave all of us who worked on the
movie the necessary support and confidence to put preconceived notions aside when
approaching the challenge of making the unmakeable!
ScoreNotes: Had you been exposed to any Watchmen material before the film, or was
there a bit of research involved to catch yourself up with the background of the saga?
Tyler Bates: I read the graphic novel a couple of times after Zack asked me on to the
project. I intentionally insulated myself from the lore of the graphic novel by keeping
60 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

discussions about the project to a minimum. I felt that I needed to approach the film as I
saw it—without anticipating the notions of the Watchmen-savvy contingent as to what
the score should be.
ScoreNotes: The Watchmen are a cast of heroes unlike any the silver screen had seen
before. Can you describe the strategy behind the score and, specifically, the approach
you took to reference the decade of the ’80s in your material?
Tyler Bates: I love all genres of music of the ’80s! It was a tremendous mish-mash of
acoustic/organic and digital/electronic technology. It is part of my musical DNA, so it
undoubtedly bore its head in the Watchmen score. Part of my job is to express a feeling
and sometimes assimilate the feeling of a particular era, which, like the graphic novel, is
evident in the Watchmen film. Apart from the obvious, I approached the film from the
headspace of its characters. The intent of the score is to express what our characters
are unable to say in words, and to do so in such a degree that the audience not only feels
the sentiment, but also sees the textural palate of each character’s mind.
ScoreNotes: When speaking about “retro” styles, your music for Doomsday also had a
touch of past inspirations in it. How much did you enjoy working on this project, and
was it fun paying homage, in a way, to some of the science fiction films of the past?
Tyler Bates: Nearly all music is a homage of some sort. Neal Marshall is great to work
with. His knowledge of movies and pop music is what really made it possible for me to
walk the line of what could be cheesy (as opposed to good fun) if handled unintention-
ally in poor taste. But if you have seen the film, you can see that it was done entirely in
“good” taste [laughs].
ScoreNotes: What has it been like working with Rob Zombie on the new Halloween
movies?
Tyler Bates: Rob marches to his own beat, which I love about him. When we’re working
together, it feels more like we’re making something we like as opposed to being in “the
business.” I am not at liberty to specifically discuss H2, but I will say that no one will
call Rob a softie after watching it. It looks incredibly hardcore. And Wayne Toth [spe-
cial effects make-up] has completely outdone himself. I have never seen more realistic
movie blood than this!
ScoreNotes: Does he [Zombie] have stronger input than most directors about the type of
music he’s looking to use?
Tyler Bates: Rob’s films are visually more intense than most I have seen, which in turn
has a strong influence over the choices I make when writing a score for him. We created
a “sound” for his films with The Devil’s Rejects. It is not to say that the character of the
 C h a pt e r 8 Keeping Score with Tyler Bates 61

music I have done for his films will not evolve (or devolve) into something different. It
most certainly will over time. Rob and I collaborate based on what we have done thus
far as a point of reference when we’re discussing new ideas. That said, he is not up in my
grill about finite details; however, he doesn’t pull punches about what he likes and dis-
likes. This is one of the things I like best about our working relationship.
ScoreNotes: Are there any challenges in jumping from one genre to the next as a com-
poser, or is that part of the fun for you?
Tyler Bates: It’s all part of the fun. But seriously, it’s all a bit daunting. I have yet to do a
film where I began with the notion that “I got this!” My guess is that the score would be
lacking in inspiration if that did happen. I usually begin with the feeling that I have no
idea what I am doing! This is probably because of the insanity behind my process for
developing the “sound” of each score. I’m not quite sure. For me, the fun is when a
project is completed and everyone creatively involved is happy. Of course, when it’s
too late to make changes, I see my glaring mistakes that weren’t visible to me before
the dub. But you learn and move on.
ScoreNotes: What is the best thing about being a film composer?
Tyler Bates: As a film composer, you are forced to dig deep and challenge yourself every
day. You learn about music of all styles and genres on a continuous basis, and also meet
interesting and intelligent people when working in film. Much of my life was spent in
rock bands, which are amorphous creatures based on the sum of the creative partners
involved, whereas the nature of film scoring is that as an individual, you interpret the
vision of a director in the most creative way possible. There are always new stories to
experience when working on films, which, as artists, presents the opportunity to rein-
vent ourselves and expand the scope of our talent beyond what most rock bands can
offer.
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 Keeping Score with
9 Alex Heffes

Used by permission.

Alex Heffes

A
lex Heffes is a composer who has worked on an interesting portfolio of films.
At the top of that list are his collaborations with director Kevin Macdonald’s
The Last King of Scotland and State of Play, two movies which offer distinctly
differing plot themes while providing a similar sense of professionalism in the manner in
which they were made.
While I enjoyed the music Alex wrote for The Last King of Scotland, it was his effective
score for State of Play that confirmed my interest in his style. Specifically, I was
impressed in how he wrote such varied, compelling music within the narrow spaces
of this tightly edited film.
I interviewed Alex circa April 2009, around the time that State of Play began its modest
run in theaters. . .

63
64 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

Alex Heffes (2009)

ScoreNotes: Can you tell us a little bit about your background and where you’re cur-
rently based out of?
Alex Heffes: I originally was classically trained and later played jazz piano. After my
formal education, I started trying to put aside what I’d learned and pick up some of the
tricks that I found people doing in pop and commercial sessions. That opened up a lot of
new ways of working for me. I consider myself very lucky to have had a really solid
formal background and the chance to work with bands and artists. I hope this gives me
the best of both worlds. I split my time between London and L.A. These days the Inter-
net really has made the world a smaller place.
ScoreNotes: What would you say was your “first break” in the business?
Alex Heffes: Hard to say. I think we all need breaks to continually happen. Sometimes
it’s the ones that don’t seem too important at the time that eventually lead to greater
things. Meeting talented people is the best break. I’ve been fortunate to work on some
great quality projects such as One Day in September, The Last King of Scotland, and
Sweeney Todd—all of which have ended up in the Academy Awards. Working
with gifted people such as Kevin Macdonald and Tim Burton is the best a composer
can ask for.
ScoreNotes: I felt that your music for State of Play was quite effective and helped guide
the story forward in great fashion. Given that it was a very tightly edited film, was it at
all challenging in determining the spots that required score material?
Alex Heffes: In a really good picture like State of Play, good performances, direction,
and editing mean the film already plays very well without music. This is a luxury for a
composer because you can actually spot the music where the film will benefit from
scoring rather than where it may need “propping up” because of weaknesses in those
areas. The scoring process can hopefully amplify and bring out all the strengths that are
already there in the picture.
ScoreNotes: Can you share some of the ideas that you and the film’s director might have
discussed in mapping out the strategy for this soundtrack?
Alex Heffes: I was asked to write some music to the script before shooting, which is
quite unusual. I had brought onboard the fantastic British rock producer, Flood, early
on in the process, and he recorded all these early jam sessions. We brought in a whole
variety of interesting instruments and people in order to create a “palette” that would
have a particular flavor. This included the wonderful Crystal Bachet from Paris brought
 Chapter 9 Keeping Score with Alex Heffes 65

in by Thomas Bloch, some unique sound sculptures and percussion made by Steve Hub-
back, and the human beatboxer Shlomo. These sessions were a lot of fun and provided
many of the rhythmic ideas that came later in the score.
ScoreNotes: There are subtle touches of dramatic influences in the music. How impor-
tant was it to instill an undercurrent of emotion within the score?
Alex Heffes: You need to engage with your characters to lift your film above just being a
plot-led narrative. Russell Crowe is fantastic at being able to convey what his character
feels with a minimum of expression. He often says it all with a look. The emotional part
of the score comes toward the end where things start to get messy. The relationship
between Cal and Steven is what we focused on. In order to do this, I wrote a short
theme or motif which comes back in various guises. You hear it on a piano earlier on
in the film. Toward the end of the film, it comes back on a “broken” sounding piano—
to try and mirror the split in their relationship. When we were recording in the studio,
I just happened to open up the Bechstein piano they had there, which hadn’t been tuned
that day. As it happened, it was well in tune except for a couple of notes, which had a
rather interesting off-key sound. So I wrote the main theme of the film there and then
around the notes that were “broken” on the piano. Flood had the great idea of record-
ing the theme at half speed an octave lower onto 2-inch tape. When it was played back
at the correct speed, it had a slightly fuzzy sound, which is what you hear toward the
end of the film to evoke the emotional breakdown of the characters.
ScoreNotes: In the battle of online versus print media, do you think the newspapers will
ultimately lose this fight for readership? Or, as suggested in the movie, do you feel there
will always be a demand for established newspaper reporting?
Alex Heffes: I think the jury is still out on this one. I guess you’d probably get different
answers if you were to pose this question to a child of the Internet generation and some-
one who was brought up with newsprint on their hands.
ScoreNotes: How captivating an assignment was The Last King of Scotland for you?
Alex Heffes: That was a real adventure in all senses of the word. I went to Uganda and
recorded a lot of music on location, working with bands and singers we found there.
Recording vocals in a disused meat packing factory in the middle of the night in
the back streets of Kampala was one of the many memorable events. I rehearsed the
choir we were working with in a swelteringly hot store room sitting on oil cans while
being eaten alive by mosquitoes. Actually, the malaria there is awful. One of the actors
had a bad malaria attack during my stay. It’s a very serious problem. We also found a
bagpiper who had been in Idi Amin’s bagpipe corps in the 1970s. I remember him
66 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

dusting off his pipes and playing them outside. In moments all the children from the
local school came running out of their class to see what on earth was making that noise.
They had a ball.
ScoreNotes: Given that the film built up a solid bit of publicity during the Awards
season, did the notoriety help put more of a spotlight on your work as well?
Alex Heffes: People did seem very interested in the soundtrack, which is gratifying as we
put a lot of effort into it. I still get a lot of mail from all round the world about it.
ScoreNotes: Scanning the remainder of 2009, do you have any ongoing or future
projects that you would like to share with us?
Alex Heffes: I’m currently scoring Shanghai, directed by Mikael Håfström and starring
John Cusack, Gong Li, and Yun-Fat Chow. I’m also working on an album project which
has been going for some time. It’s an exciting collaboration project with a series of
different artists in different locations. More about that shortly!
ScoreNotes: Looking ahead to your future goals, what are some of the accomplishments
you hope to achieve during your career?
Alex Heffes: Just keep on going and enjoy—that’s the film composers’ mantra!
 Keeping Score with
10 Theodore Shapiro

Photo by Stuart Pettican.

Theodore Shapiro.

S
ome would say that writing music for comedies is a predictable venture. Don’t
mention that to Theodore Shapiro.

Theodore is a composer who has worked on some of the most successful comedies in
recent history, including Tropic Thunder, Blades of Glory, Marley and Me, Year One,
and more. What makes him stand out, in my opinion, is that he writes music on a level
above that of standard comedy scores. I’ve always appreciated the intelligent, thematic
approach he takes toward his projects and also the manner in which he raises the bar in
the comedy genre each time out.
I had the opportunity to speak with Theodore shortly before the Harold Ramis comedy,
Year One, premiered in June 2009. . .

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68 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

Theodore Shapiro (2009)

ScoreNotes: Can you describe the type of score you developed for the comedy adventure
Year One?
Theodore Shapiro: The heart of the score for Year One almost has a collage-type
approach. I took a lot of different elements and put them together to create a sort of
unusual stylistic combination. I used drum loops, electric guitars, middle eastern instru-
ments (woodwinds and string instruments), and then an unusually configured orchestra
that had a string section that was smaller than the typical compliment and used it more
in the manner of a Bollywood or Middle Eastern style string orchestra. That was
the idea. I took all these ingredients and threw them into the pot and something
came out of it.
ScoreNotes: How enticing is it for you to score comedies that allow for more of a multi-
dimensional approach to the music?
Theodore Shapiro: What you’re always looking to do is something that enables you to
stretch as a composer or find an interesting combination of sounds that engages you in
the process and that makes it really fun and exciting. So you’re always looking, I think,
when choosing a project to do something that’s going to give you that kind of expanded
palette and an opportunity to go to places that you haven’t been before.
ScoreNotes: What were your experiences like with Year One director Harold Ramis?
Theodore Shapiro: Harold was completely open. He’s just a very wonderful, really
intelligent and intellectual guy and a pleasure to work with. The film is a road
movie, more or less, in which Jack Black and Michael Cera start the movie as
hunter-gatherers in a small tribal village. They get cast out of that village, and then
essentially they go on what amounts to a road trip through the Old Testament. At
the same time—and Harold as the writer/director was very interested in this concept—
the movie traces the arc of civilization. So they start as hunter-gatherers; they encounter
Cain and Able and sort of a very rustic, agrarian society. And then they encounter Abraham
and Isaac and the Hebrews. . .and then it goes on to Sodom, which is sort of an ancient
version of Las Vegas, more or less. Harold was very interested in both the movie and the
music tracing this arc that is the pass of civilization. So we talked a lot about that, and
although we certainly didn’t come up with an approach that is ethno-musicologically
correct in any way, shape, or form, I think the music is mindful of that idea. It starts off
with an African drumming-type of approach, and then it does enter into a more Middle
Eastern language, and then ultimately, when we get to Sodom, there is a little more of a
biblical sweep to the music. So it does go on that journey.
 Ch ap t er 10 Keeping Score with Theodore Shapiro 69

ScoreNotes: Can you describe the scope of knowledge a composer has to have to be able
to touch on musical influences from around the world?
Theodore Shapiro: [Laughs] I come from a classical background. I went to the Julliard
School as a composition student, but I also grew up playing in rock bands and having a
wide array of musical influences. I think the training part is really important, but you
also just need to have an open ear and keep listening to a lot of material. And a lot of it
is just a conceptual notion that you have an idea of something that you want to pursue;
then if you need to immerse yourself in that kind of musical language that you’re unfa-
miliar with, you do that.
ScoreNotes: Tropic Thunder was another film of yours that played great with audiences.
Did you know early on with that movie that you wanted the music to play with a sense
of intensity?
Theodore Shapiro: Absolutely. The initial conversations that I had with Ben Stiller were
just that; no matter what, we wanted the music to be a completely serious element in the
film. Before he started shooting, and we sat down to talk about it, that was the one thing
that we absolutely knew. At the time when he was getting started, we were talking about
possibly pursuing a more ’70s Goldsmith-type approach in keeping with the Vietnam War
setting. But then as soon as he shot the film, it became pretty much immediately clear to
us that the movie wanted a modern approach. We kept to the notion of the music being
serious and intense, and we used a very maximalist, modern approach to the music. It
was great, great fun to do.
ScoreNotes: It’s not often that one gets to score a Ben Stiller action movie [laughing]!
Theodore Shapiro: That’s right; there aren’t too many of them. It’s just a real thrill to be
able to do that. I work on a lot of comedies, but whenever I watch action films like the
Jason Bourne movies, I always think that I would absolutely love to get an opportunity
to write a fifteen-minute action sequence, and this provided me an opportunity to
scratch that itch.
ScoreNotes: To follow up that point, you’ve done a great job with the films you’ve
scored in your career, many of which were comedies. Do you have any interest to
branch out to different genres, or is that hard to do after you’ve proven to be so suc-
cessful with what you do?
Theodore Shapiro: I would love to work in as many different genres as possible. It is
difficult to branch out. You do get pretty quickly pigeon-holed in Hollywood as doing a
certain kind of thing. And all that said, I absolutely love the work that I do. I find it
musically engaging, I find it intellectually challenging, and I don’t think a lot of people
70 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

would think it’s a very sad story that I don’t get to work on different genres of films. I
really love what I do; I’m very lucky to get to do it. If I get to work on other genres,
that’s great; if not, I’ll be happy with that, too.
ScoreNotes: A film that proved to be quite endearing with audiences was Marley and
Me. Did you have a sense early on that this movie would take off in popularity the way
it did?
Theodore Shapiro: I thought there was a chance of that. I’ll tell you that the point in
which I knew it would was when they had the first preview, and the first time they
reveal Marley as a puppy, you hear the whole audience go “awww” at the same
time. I just knew immediately that this movie was going to be huge. Dogs touch such
a chord with so many people, and so many people have the experiences of having a pet.
And the movie, I think, is just very well done; it’s very well directed. David Franklin is a
terrific director and really knows what he’s doing. There’s little fat in his films, you
know; he just knows how to tell a story. The combination of it being a good movie
with the built-in factors of people connecting with the idea of having a pet, loving a
pet, losing a pet, and the success of the book—well, I had a sense that it might be pretty
popular. I still wasn’t prepared for how popular it was.
ScoreNotes: How neat was it for you to mix in some of those Irish melodies that we
heard in the score?
Theodore Shapiro: That was great fun! It was nice because there was a main theme for
the Owen Wilson and Jennifer Aniston couple, so it was really fun to get to transpose
that theme into an Irish tune. That was a really enjoyable cue to get to write.
ScoreNotes: The sentimental value of your music worked to great success in the film,
specifically with the final cue in the film. Can you talk about the delicate balance of
writing music for emotional scenarios? There’s something to be said about music that
comes across honestly the way yours does.
Theodore Shapiro: You’re referring to the cue “It All Runs Together,” and in the film,
it’s the cue that’s playing when they (spoiler alert!) euthanize the dog. My greatest fear
was pushing the sentiment too far, but at the same time, it is a moment of catharsis. And
ultimately, I think that the cathartic value of that moment is what the movie is about.
That moment of release as the dog dies is just so central to the impact of the film. It was
a delicate balancing act because the music had to be emotional, honest, and direct, but
not too much, and hopefully that’s what it was.
ScoreNotes: It absolutely was; I think you nailed it with that cue.
 Ch ap t er 10 Keeping Score with Theodore Shapiro 71

Theodore Shapiro: Thank you.

ScoreNotes: What are some other projects you have lined up for the rest of the year and
beyond into 2010?
Theodore Shapiro: I’m finishing a really enjoyable film called Jennifer’s Body, which is
a horror comedy written by Diablo Cody, who wrote the film Juno. So it’s a really
interesting film. It’s got the writing style that Juno had, but it is definitely also a horror
film; it’s very smart and plays around the conventions of that genre. I’m actually writing
that score with another composer, Steven Barton, and that’s been a really fun experience
to collaborate with somebody else. And after that, I’m taking a break. I’ve had an
unusual, busy year.
ScoreNotes: As we wrap up this chat, I would like to say that I like how your music
doesn’t play generically when maybe it could in a comedy, so thank you for rising to the
challenge and giving us soundtrack fans great material to enjoy.
Theodore Shapiro: Thank you so much, I really appreciate it. It’s been a real pleasure to
talk to you.
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 Keeping Score with
11 John Murphy

Photo by Charlotte Murphy.

John Murphy.

J
ohn Murphy is absolutely one of my favorite composers to speak with. In our first
conversation, the interview for The Last House on the Left, he was as personable and
informative as any composer I had spoken with before. His wealth of knowledge
about the projects he has worked on and the directors he’s collaborated with is greatly
interesting.
John’s not afraid to take chances with his music. As is often the case, his creative con-
tributions have greatly benefited the films he has worked on and makes for excellent
listening experiences apart from them. Who can ask for more?
In the following interview, John lets us know what makes him tick as a composer. He
also shares his experiences with Academy Award winning director Danny Boyle, and the
legendary Guy Ritchie, from his collaborations with both of them over the years.
Overall, this segment offers great insight on one of the top film composers from the U.
K.. . .

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74 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

John Murphy (2009)

ScoreNotes: I’d like to start our discussion off with The Last House on the Left. What
were some of the scoring opportunities about this film that interested you?
John Murphy: Initially, the thing that interested me was working with Dennis Iliadis. I’d
seen Hardcore, which was his first film, and thought he’d done some pretty interesting
things with the music. So I had a feeling that he wasn’t gonna want a typical kind of
horror score, you know. . .that maybe he’d let me try something a bit different. And he
had that kind of European sensibility that always gets me. So we met up, and before
he showed me the film, we talked about how generic and predictable a lot of horror
scores are nowadays compared to how they were in the old days. And then we talked
about doing the score in a more organic and melodic way. . .kinda like a lot of early
American horror films were done. You know, like Rosemary’s Baby.
And when he showed me a few scenes, it was nothing like I expected. It had this kinda
cool European pacing, and it just looked beautiful.
For me, the main thing is always the director. If he’s gonna be brave with his film, then
he’s gonna be brave with the music, you know? Which means I might have more oppor-
tunities to do something a bit different. And for me, that’s the most exciting thing about
scoring films. . .how far we can push it.
ScoreNotes: I read in your CD liner notes that the combination of beauty and dread,
elements that are presented in this film, are specific components that you enjoy writing
for. What is it about that blend that you find creatively interesting?
John Murphy: I think it’s kind of a personality problem that comes out in some of my
stuff. I’ve always tended to lean towards extremes in most art to be honest. I passion-
ately love the really melodic and lyrical stuff by Ennio Morricone and John Barry and
Nina Rota. . .but at the same time, I’m still drawn to the really dark or atonal stuff, you
know. With certain films, I just feel that I can bring more to the table when I’m trying to
hit those two polar opposites. Because at some point, they kind of become the same
thing. You can sometimes see the beauty in something in a more cinematic way if the
music is dark and unsympathetic. . .and sometimes you feel more horror and dread if
the music is innocent and lyrical. I like it when scores do that—when the music
juxtaposes what’s happening on the screen, but actually it’s heightening it emotionally.
Morricone and Bernard Herrmann were fantastic at doing that.
I think I just feel more comfortable working with those two extremes. I can be in either
of those two worlds without forcing it, so it’s easier to write that kind of stuff. I don’t
have to over think it.
 C h ap t e r 1 1 Keeping Score w i t h J o h n M ur p h y 75

ScoreNotes: Does it ever become a bit of a chore or challenge to labor through more of a
mainstream project as opposed to a film you’re more comfortable with, like The Last
House on the Left?
John Murphy: To be dead honest, yeah it does! You know, a lot of times, you just don’t
get the chance to do the films you really want to do. And you can’t just sit around and
wait for films like 28 Days Later or Sunshine to come around; you gotta pay the bills!
So sometimes that means doing something a little more mainstream, but that’s cool. It’s
not like I’m gonna do something I hate or work with someone I know is an a**hole.
Though that never stopped me in the past [laughs]. I’m a working composer, and I’ll
never take that for granted. So sometimes I have to just get my head down and do
something a bit more mainstream and just be challenged by that. But yes, it’s definitely
more difficult. It’s just a lot easier for me when I don’t feel like I’m out of character, you
know? And I feel more in tune with something like 28 Days later than, say, a romantic
comedy or something. The few times I’ve worked on that type of film, for example like
Guess Who, I had this horrible feeling that there were 20 other guys within a mile of me
who would be doing it better! And nobody wants to feel like they’re faking it, you
know, even when they are. So yeah, I’m much happier with the edgy stuff. I don’t
have to think about it too much.
ScoreNotes: Absolutely! And I’m glad you brought up 28 days Later in your response
because I would like to ask you how influential you think that film has been for the
modern horror genre?
John Murphy: When we were doing it, as much as we loved it, I don’t think we thought
it was going to be anything other than this cool, little thinking-man’s zombie road
movie! And to be honest, when you’re working on a film, you’re so involved in
the making of it, that it doesn’t occur to you that what you’re doing at that very moment
might actually influence other films in the future. You just want to do it as good as you
can and get to the finish line in one piece. Then of course, it came out and everyone went
crazy, and it kind of rebooted the zombie genre. It’s only now, years later, that it’s
dawned on me how influential it has been to that genre. And I think it might have
made a lot of young filmmakers realize that there are other ways to approach films
in this genre, and other ways to frighten and disturb audiences without resorting to
the usual schlock horror style. That and the fact that it was Danny Boyle. . .I think it
may have given a few new filmmakers a bit more confidence to be a little braver. So
yeah, I think it’s definitely left its mark.
ScoreNotes: You’ve collaborated with Director Danny Boyle on multiple occasions.
How open is he to expressing new and creative musical ideas when it comes to your
work?
76 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

John Murphy: Danny’s about as open and brave with music as you would ever want a
director to be. I think he’s the only director I’ve ever worked with that I couldn’t shock
[laughs]. You know, he’ll talk and talk about how he wants the film to feel, the back-
story of the characters, and the themes within the film itself. He’ll talk about everything
to do with the film apart from how I should do the music. He’s never once said to me,
“This has to be this kind of track” or “This has to be strings”. . .or piano or whatever.
He doesn’t really work like that. After he’s overloaded my head with the film, he basi-
cally leaves me alone to try things out myself. So when he comes back to hear stuff, he
comes in with a completely open mind, never knowing what the hell he’s going to hear.
And if he hates something, he’ll just say it. But when he gets excited about a track, he
gets excited! Especially if it’s something he didn’t expect.
A good example is the end, or the climax, of 28 Days Later. . .you know, the crazy
blood-fest in the house. Most directors would have been screaming for me to do one
of those hundred-mile-an-hour syncopated action things, you know, but we ended up
going with this slow guitar groove that went off on this seven-minute grungy crescendo.
I don’t think I would have had the confidence to play that to any other director. But he
loved it. In fact, he went back in and recut the scene longer after he heard it, which is
something very few directors will do.
So yeah, to be given this whole level of understanding of the film and the confidence-
. . .and license to experiment and get there in my own way. . .you don’t know how rare
that is. That’s why my most original stuff has been for his films. He gave me the chance
to do what I wanted first. And a lot of composers don’t get that opportunity.
Seriously nice guy, too.
ScoreNotes: Another notable director you’ve worked with is Guy Ritchie. Can you
describe what his style was like when you scored his films?
John Murphy: Guy’s a one-off, you know, and great to work with in a completely dif-
ferent way. Very dynamic, very single-minded. And he’s another one who kind of leaves
me to it till he comes in to hear stuff. So he’s similar to Danny in that respect, but other
than that, in terms of how they deal with music, they couldn’t be more different to be
honest.
But, you know, there are reasons for that. Guy’s films are very character-driven, so it’s
all about each character having his own theme, his own flavor, as opposed to the film
itself having bigger themes. He doesn’t really worry about the film thematically as long
as the characters have their own musical identity. Which is a weird way to construct a
score to be honest, but somehow it works in his movies. For example, there’s no main
 C h ap t e r 1 1 Keeping Score w i t h J o h n M ur p h y 77

theme in Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels or Snatch. So it’s all about the comedy
with him. And because so much of the comedy in his films is in the dialogue and in the
rhythm of the dialogue, it’s all about the beats in the music, by which I mean the ins and
outs and the pauses, not beats as in drums or percussion. And the tempo of the music is
critical in his films because it has to groove along with the nonstop dialogue rather than
drive it. You don’t drive Guy’s films. . .you groove along with them! And I’m totally cool
to do that. It’s easy to become obsessed with the mechanics of a score and how it’s
working thematically, you know, but we just don’t get into that on his films. He doesn’t
really care about all that crap. He’s very instinctive as a director, so if something feels
right to him, then it’s right. He doesn’t over think it or question it beyond that. So, in
that respect, he’s very easy to work with.
So it’s all about the flavor and the rhythm of the score with him. . .the tempo, the spaces
you leave and where you come back in. And how it all works alongside the comedy,
without ever having to resort to “funny music.” And somehow it all works.
But you do have to throw the rule book away when you work with him, which is cool
with me.
To be honest, I wish we could have done more films together, but I don’t hear about it
till it’s too late, and I’m already on another film. Usually one of Danny’s funnily enough.
But Guy’s a good lad. And funny. Nothing like the surly, serious guy people think he is.
ScoreNotes: There’s something to be said about directors who have a clear vision about
what is expected from your music, and I suppose that makes your job easier, too.
John Murphy: Yeah, there’s nothing worse than coming onto a film and you suddenly
find out that the dynamic director you took the meeting with hasn’t actually worked out
what he wants the music to do in his film. You play them something, and they’re not
sure how they feel about it because they’re not sure what they want. So at some point,
you have to take control and say, “OK. . .we’ve got one shot at this. If you know what
you want, tell me. If not, let me just do it.” And I’ve been on films where the director has
been too nice to just lay out what he really wants, and it’s always ended up a mess.
ScoreNotes: Best to be upfront, get it all out, so you can do what you do best.
John Murphy: Yeah, when you have deadlines, you have to be straight with each other
from the off. . .you’re gonna have an intense six weeks with this person, and there’s just
not enough time to be polite with each other. If you hate it, tell me now so I can do
something about it before it’s too late. Some guys get it, but the guys who don’t. . .well,
it usually ends up a disaster.
78 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

ScoreNotes: [Laughs] That’s not the goal, I’m sure.

John Murphy: No.
ScoreNotes: As we near the end of our discussion, I want to take a moment to compli-
ment you on your portfolio of work and, specifically, your score for the heartwarming
film, Millions. Can you share your recollections from that film?
John Murphy: To be honest, I loved doing Millions. It’s actually one of my favorite
scores I’ve done, believe it or not. I love it when I can just sit down at a piano and
write simple tunes without having to be ironic or cynical or cool. I just don’t often
get the chance to do it because I think people see me as the edgy guy [laughs], you
know. . .and there’s something about writing from a child’s perspective that I love.
Liam was the same, the film I did with Stephen Friars, which was also from a kid’s
perspective. I just think you get more freedom to write heartfelt music with this kind
of film and not be embarrassed about it, you know. I just don’t usually get asked to
write those types of scores, unfortunately.
ScoreNotes: Indeed, I do want to compliment you on that score because it is one of my
favorite works of yours.
John Murphy: Cheers, Tom, I appreciate that.
ScoreNotes: What does the rest of 2009 look like for you?
John Murphy: The next film out (for me) is Armored, directed by Nimrod Natal. It’s a
cool little heist movie with Jean Reno and Matt Dillon. I got to do a lot of crazy, over-
driven guitar tracks, frantic stuff, lots of feedback, and stuff like that. I love doing that.
The exact opposite of Millions. A pretty volatile little score, but I like it.
ScoreNotes: Has some attitude to it, sounds like.
John Murphy: Yeah. And there’s a nice crescendo shape to a lot of the scenes, which is
something I obviously love doing. It’s a cool little film, very tight and edgy. Nimrod is a
pretty exciting young director.
But workwise. . .and I’ve got an exclusive here for you Tom. . .I’m actually going to take
the rest of the year off to put out some of my own stuff.
ScoreNotes: Nice!
John Murphy: Yeah, I can’t wait. No one knows yet. Just you, my wife, and my guys
[laughs].
ScoreNotes: It’s a close circle [laughs].
 C h ap t e r 1 1 Keeping Score w i t h J o h n M ur p h y 79

John Murphy: Yeah. I’ve been promising myself I would do this for a couple of years.
I’m actually setting up my label now. And to be honest with you, I think I prefer some of
this stuff to a lot of my film stuff. Sometimes you’ve just got to stop and do something
for yourself, you know. As much as you get a lot of creative freedom with this job—and
I seem to get a hell of a lot more freedom than most guys I know—you have to give the
guys who are paying you what they want. And it gets frustrating sometimes when you
have to butcher something you like for the sake of the scene or the film. But that’s what
you have to do. So I’m taking a few months off to get some of that stuff out my system.
So that’s what I’m going to be doing for the rest of the year. . .that, and playing Legos
with the kids.
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 Keeping Score with
12 Mark Kilian

Photo by Mark Martin.

Mark Kilian.

W
hen composers truly immerse themselves in their projects, it’s a type of com-
mitment I truly admire. Mark Kilian strikes me as someone who takes this
route with each and every project he takes on, embarking on a quest of dis-
covery with each outing.
In the following interview, originally conducted in 2008 and later updated for this book,
Mark explains the different levels he explores when asked to write a culturally rich film
score. As you’ll read in the interview, Mark goes beyond simple preparation and fully
immerses himself to understand the culture that he may be representing with his music.
We also discuss traditional Hollywood fare such as Traitor, the Academy Award win-
ning film Tsotsi, and many other interesting topics in this engaging segment. . .

Mark Kilian (2008/2009)

ScoreNotes: What were some of the musical directions you explored with Traitor?
Mark Kilian: The way I started work on Traitor informed the rest of the score in a way.
I was in South Africa visiting my folks when I was contacted by the director, Jeffrey

81
82 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

Nachmanoff, to spec up a few scenes. I only had a laptop with me and no sound library
at all, so rather than flying back to L.A. the day before Christmas, I decided to build my
own library and write with the elements I was able to make. I set about recording a
million sounds around the house: tap dripping in the kitchen sink; choir of beer bottles
filled to different pitches; different sounds of all my dad’s power machines in the garage;
percussion played on paint cans, bottles, windows, doors, etc; my old piano and guitar
from when I was a child. All these sounds and more became my “orchestra,” and after
spending a few days building that up, I set about writing music using my new palette.
Once I had written the three pieces, I booked a recording session with a vocalist and a
guitarist in South Africa and then mixed it back on my laptop (with headphones!) and
sent them on. This essentially got me the job. It was a very liberating experience not
having my massive sound library with me in that I had to create each and every sound
from scratch, and I think the benefit of that was that the textural part of the score
became as important as melody or rhythm or harmony. There was a lack of hierarchy
in the music in the sense that all the building blocks that make a piece of music were
equally important. Of course, much was added to that in the final score, but the initial
germ of this idea stayed with me for the rest of the project.
Back in L.A., the first thing I did was organize a massive percussion session with a truck
full of rented percussion instruments, including a set of artillery shells, tuned metal
plates, Chinese kettle drums, Argentinean Bombos, Roto Toms, the biggest bass drum
I could find, and a host of weird and wonderful ethnic percussion instruments. I then
hired a bunch of players and then had them play stuff they weren’t used to. So the guy
who was a great Latin percussion player wouldn’t get to touch any Latin percussion,
and the great rock drummer would find himself banging metal plates and so forth rather
than a rock drum kit. This really helped in getting material that sounded a little more
unique as the players were also having a lot of fun and being challenged playing instru-
ments they weren’t accustomed to.
ScoreNotes: What aspects of this film’s complex storyline did you find to be the most
intriguing?
Mark Kilian: The storyline was very multi-layered in that it wasn’t a “good guy, bad
guy” story. One never really knew Don Cheadle’s character’s loyalty until the end. Also,
I grew up in South Africa where a guy who was locked up as a terrorist and whose
organization waged a campaign of terror (Nelson Mandela and the ANC) became the
world figurehead of peace and reconciliation and led the country to freedom (and he is
my biggest hero!). So the story of Traitor resonated with me on that level. The world is
not black and white, and this encouraged me to write a score that did not use a themat-
ically divisive approach. In other words, it was my intention to not attach a theme to a
 Cha pt e r 12 Keeping Score w i t h M a r k K i l i a n 83

character, and I think this helped in allowing the score to not tell the audience who was
the “good guy” and who was the “bad guy.”
ScoreNotes: When writing music for a character whose intent is not totally clear, does it
make it challenging to pick a direction for that individual’s representative theme?
Mark Kilian: My themes in Traitor are following the events in the story, rather than the
characters, so there was a theme for bomb making, and a theme for infiltration, and one
for the dissemination of the ideals that drive this terrorist network in the story. I didn’t
want the audience to care for Don Cheadle in the beginning of the story. Nor did I want
them to get excited by the pursuits of the FBI or the fumblings of Jeff Daniel’s CIA
character. I wanted the audience to have as neutral a perspective as possible so they
could go along for the ride and not know who was the “good guy” or the “bad guy”
until it was revealed near the end.
ScoreNotes: That’s a great example of how every movie is different and how you, as a
composer, really need to take an approach that’s appropriate for that specific film.
Mark Kilian: Absolutely. One of the exciting things I like about this career is that every
film presents a different set of obstacles, opportunities, and ways that you get to explore
the telling of a story.
ScoreNotes: What kind of a timeframe was involved in developing and recording the
score for Traitor?
Mark Kilian: I would say it was somewhere around three months, and it felt like a really
good schedule. I was brought in fairly early in the process, while they were still editing
the director’s cut, so I got to work along with them and get stuff into the temp score
before they started doing previews. The earlier the composer is working on the film, the
better. Temp scores are helpful in telling the composer how the director would like a
scene to feel, but they can affect the outcome of the score in a negative way, as the
composer is often battling with replacing something that the filmmakers have been lis-
tening to over and over as they edit the film. This usually does not contribute to the
originality of the score.
ScoreNotes: One of your scores preceding Traitor was the evocative Before the Rains.
Can you tell us how that score differs from your work on Traitor?
Mark Kilian: Before the Rains is a very different kind of film. That was a film where
there was much more of a traditional thematic approach to the score. It was an abso-
lutely beautifully shot period piece set in Kerala in the south of India. It was directed
and shot by Santosh Sivan, and when I first saw the opening few minutes, I just walked
84 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

over to the piano and wrote a few themes, as I was so inspired by the beautifully shot
opening. I got to explore traditional Indian music, which I’ve studied at university and
have always loved. I went to India to record and work with the filmmakers, and it was a
very exciting experience for me to immerse myself into another culture for a while.
ScoreNotes: Do you find that being able to work with diverse cultures in film offers
unique creative opportunities for you and your music?
Mark Kilian: Most definitely. I’m most proud of the moments where I’ve been success-
ful in taking the musical essence of a culture and weaving it into a tapestry that is my
own. It is so tempting to write a score that is a drone with an ethnic instrument wailing
away on the top, but that is less interesting and can do the film a disservice. Tsotsi and
Rendition are definitely ethnic scores, but as much as they are attached to the story, they
have their own unique world of sound that is drawn from a much broader experience
than just the physical place where the story takes place. Before the Rains is a little dif-
ferent in that it was a period piece. I tried to be more authentic with the sound palette I
was using. It was in essence a classical Indian score, but I did use some African percus-
sion and made some electronically manipulated soundscape material.
Traitor was an ethnic score, too, but as the story moves from place to place, the score is
somewhat devoid of ethnic authenticity. I used a host of interesting instruments like the
Hang Drum, Duduk, Oud, Bass Ruan (Chinese “smiley face” guitar) Egyptian Saz, elec-
tric violin, and Ney flute. Along with the Seattle Orchestra and the crazy percussion
stuff I had recorded, I used production techniques more akin to electronica to put the
score together. I also used a lot of bends in the strings and played with major/minor
tonalities throughout, which gave the string writing a more “ethnic” feel to it without
being a typical “Middle Eastern” string sound.
The last two films I’ve done since Traitor have both been ethnic stories in a way, but
both are set in America. One is an African-American story called The Least Among
You, and the other one is a Latino story called La Mission. They both offered me the
same opportunity of going into another culture, learning what I can and then trying to
write a score that draws from this, but is not dictated to by it. La Mission was my first
real experience working with Latino music, and I bought all these instruments online
and from local music shops, some of South American origin and some not. I used a
double ocarina (bass) to make some of the low drones and pads, and the Swedish
door harp to make some of the tension textures, and the triple Native American flute
to make some higher pads. For the melodies and counter melodies, I used the Contra
Bass Native American flute, the Charango (string instrument from Bolivia), the Chinese
Hulusi (bamboo wind instrument with Gourd), and the Jarana, a smaller guitar also
from Mexico.
 Cha pt e r 12 Keeping Score w i t h M a r k K i l i a n 85

The film I’m working on now is North by El Norte, a Mexican film about a young man
from Tijuana trying to cross the border into the United States. For this, I’m using a Bass
Harmonium, which I had custom built for me in India, an Igil from Tuva (two-stringed
bowed instrument), electric mandolin, African bass Kalimba, and so on. I’m also using
some Mariachi brass, which I’ve sampled and resampled and mangled to make some of
the interesting rhythmic and textural material.
ScoreNotes: It seems like quite a bit of independent, extensive research is necessary to
really capture the authentic sound of a culture to represent it well. I felt you successfully
delivered that authenticity with Before the Rains, a score that I easily recommend to
others.
Mark Kilian: Thank you. I try to live this role where I sort of see myself as a bit of a
“method composer.” You have to do the research, but you need to actually live that
culture a little bit and try and immerse yourself in what makes that culture tick. I think
that’s important. I know it sounds a bit silly, but when I’m working on an Indian movie,
for example, all I have on my iPod is Indian music, and I eat Indian food wherever
possible! When I started work on La Mission, I started to learn Spanish and am still
taking courses. Working on North by El Norte now, I’m listening to all the new stuff
coming out of Mexico as well as the traditional folk stuff. I’m also taking trips down to
Tijuana just to feel the “vibe” there, so a tiny bit of it might inform the score. I think
anything one can do to live and breathe the culture is helpful. Once you understand the
cultural aspects of the music better, it is easier to play with moving away from
the generic and expected palette associated with that culture and still remain true to
the culture somehow. Scoring movies is very much like cooking: once you know exactly
how each ingredient tastes and how they cook, it is easier to deviate from the recipe and
create your own custom-made dishes.
ScoreNotes: Becoming engrossed with the culture can only help the scoring process.
Mark Kilian: Absolutely. I grew up in South Africa, which had apartheid when I was a
kid, so I was always fascinated by the other side. I was about 19 when I had my first real
conversation with a black person, even though we had lived practically side by side not
10 miles away my whole childhood. There were a lot of Indian people in South Africa,
too, and I never really got to meet any until I was much older because of apartheid. My
folks used to play an Indian music program on Saturday mornings on the radio station,
and it was just such a fascinating and different sound.
ScoreNotes: How satisfying was it for you to have played a part in the Academy Award
film Tsotsi?
86 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

Mark Kilian: Very! We were all very proud of it, and it was even more fulfilling because
it was a great honor for South Africa to win that award and for the film to represent a
side of the country that you don’t see too often.
ScoreNotes: Indeed. The beauty of film is that one can explore issues and people that
one normally wouldn’t encounter. In that sense, Tsotsi was an important film as well.
Mark Kilian: Absolutely. Almost every film coming out of South Africa up until that
time was dealing with apartheid or some legacy of apartheid. Tsotsi was a new world
for the audience to experience, and one which black South Africans live every day. It is a
story about the lives of the new “lost” generation of township dwellers seen through
their eyes, and not the experience of the white people or the international community.
Very refreshing.

Used by permission.

Tostsi Oscar photo.

ScoreNotes: In addition to your score material, Tsotsi also featured multiple songs in it.
Did the song and score components prove to be difficult to blend into the soundtrack
together?
Mark Kilian: Actually, Paul Hepker, who co-wrote the score with me, and I unofficially
filled the music supervisor’s role. So we were quite involved in the choices and editing
the music and trying to make it fit. It was actually great! I’ve always had a great time
working with songs, and I love movies that have songs in them. It was a big discovery
 Cha pt e r 12 Keeping Score w i t h M a r k K i l i a n 87

for us learning about the new rap-influenced Kwaito music of the young people in South
Africa, and we wrote that score in South Africa, so we had a wonderful experience
learning and researching. We got to meet a lot of the artists and producers who
made those songs, and it was a discovery of a whole different world we knew very little
about, as we’d lived in the U.S. for over 10 years at that point. Even though our score
doesn’t sound anything like the songs, I think what we encountered working with that
material informed us a little bit about that world, and it got to “seep” into the score in
some way. The songs and score I feel work very well together for this reason.
ScoreNotes: At this current point in your career, is it important for you to choose proj-
ects strategically to ensure diversity for your work?
Mark Kilian: I think so, because I really don’t want to be pigeon-holed, and I’m not
overly concerned about climbing up this ladder super quickly. I love the process; that’s
why I do this. I’m happy to be working on films that are interesting to me rather than
films that may not be so interesting to me and make a lot of money. If I spend the rest of
my career doing interesting films and learning about new cultures along the way, I’ll be
very happy.
ScoreNotes: I’ve spoken to many composers who are conscious of being typecast to a
specific genre or style, which becomes a tough mold to break out of.
Mark Kilian: I’ve been extremely fortunate. I don’t have that many films under my belt
yet, but so far they’ve been quite varied. Traitor is an action-thriller, Rendition was a
political film, Before the Rains a traditional period piece—so I’ve been very lucky. And I
really enjoy that. I don’t think I would be very happy if I were getting the same kind of
calls all the time.
ScoreNotes: Since your accomplishments in 2008, what has transpired for you thus far
in ’09, and what might you have lined up for the near future?
Mark Kilian: I have a few interesting projects coming up and am very excited about my
new album I will be finishing in a few months. This will be my second solo album under
the name “The Gravy Street,” and I’m exploring many of the cultural worlds I’ve been
talking about. Writing music outside of film is at once daunting and liberating, and I
really enjoy having that “extra mural” activity to keep me on my toes.
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 Keeping Score with
13 Ramin Djawadi

Ramin Djawadi. Used by permission.

R
amin Djawadi emerged on the commercial film scoring scene in full when his
music for the first installment of Iron Man landed in theaters in 2008. As with
any high profile project, there’s a bit of a double-edged sword awaiting the
composer at the end of it with fans and peers each wanting something a bit different
with the score. Critics and expectations aside, I personally feel that Ramin’s work was
quite respectable in the film and featured a few high-flying moments that were perhaps a
bit underrated by the film score pundits of the world.
The following interview was captured in 2008 and subsequently updated in 2009 for
this book. In addition to discussing what it was like for Ramin on Iron Man, we also get
into some of his other work, including his contributions for Prison Break on Fox, his
score for the charming, Fly Me to the Moon, and more. . .

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90 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

Ramin Djawadi (2008/2009)

ScoreNotes: First off, congratulations on your work for Iron Man. Given the immense
pressures of writing a score like this, were you still able to have fun writing music for the
Iron Man universe?
Ramin Djawadi: It was a lot of fun, but I have to admit it was also a lot of hard work,
obviously. It’s a big movie; it was a lot of pressure. . .lots of conceptual changes and
experimenting until we finally got to the point where we were all happy.
ScoreNotes: By that experimentation you’re referring to—did you hash out a great num-
ber of different themes for the director [Jon Favreau] to listen to?
Ramin Djawadi: Yeah, there were a few different ideas. Mainly the issue always was
how many guitars we were going to have. Originally, I was going way more orchestral
actually, and then we decided to go into the whole rock and roll direction. So that’s why
we changed around quite a bit.
ScoreNotes: And that was actually going to be one of my questions—at what point in
the process was it determined that a rock element should be used for the character?
Ramin Djawadi: Well, it was fairly early on. The trailer was a big part of that. . .the Iron
Man song, the Black Sabbath song. I have to give credit to Jon Favreau, actually. He
always, once we really started talking about what it should be, said that he didn’t want
it to be a traditional orchestral superhero kind of score. He wanted to try something
different and do a rock and roll score. I thought that was a great conceptual idea to do
something like that.
ScoreNotes: Were you surprised by the record-breaking box office numbers that the
movie debuted with?
Ramin Djawadi: Yes, I was. I mean I knew that it was a good movie. By the hype that it
had, I had a feeling that it was going to do really well. But I did not expect the record-
breaking opening at all. I was amazed. I was so excited.
ScoreNotes: It was really wonderful for Marvel Studios as well because they had a lot
riding on it.
Ramin Djawadi: Right, absolutely, yeah. It was their first own production on a feature
like this. So I’m sure they were thrilled to see those numbers.
ScoreNotes: Absolutely. Now, were you a comic book fan going into this, and if not, are
you one now?
 Chapter 13 Keeping Score with Ramin Djawadi 91

Ramin Djawadi: No, I was already one before. I don’t so much read comics now, but
when I was a kid, I did. I’ve always been a big fan of any of the comic book movies.
That’s why actually when Hans did Batman Begins, I approached him and said, “Look,
let me just write one scene with Batman in the picture.” And then I ended up working on
the entire project with him. So when I heard about this Iron Man movie, I got really
interested in that one. I am a big comic fan.
ScoreNotes: Nice. Did your experience on Batman Begins help you out on this project?
Ramin Djawadi: For sure. Yeah, obviously that was a big project, too. And just working
with Hans in general—it’s good to see how he handles projects like that. I think it’s
always hard to put music into something that’s only known on paper, so it’s not easy.
ScoreNotes: And along those lines, given that Iron Man is a bit of an unconventional
superhero movie, did you find it challenging to find the right moments in the film to
unveil the main hero theme?
Ramin Djawadi: Definitely, especially because there are so many different moods or
moments I want to say. There are the moments where he’s really being almost aggressive
and destructive. When he breaks out of the cave for the first time or when he flies to
Gulmira. And then there are moments when he’s just having a good time. When he tries
out the Mark II and he just flies out of his house and he’s almost being a little kid trying
out super-fast cars. He has his different moods. It wasn’t easy to always have something
that would accomplish both.
ScoreNotes: Sure, and most superhero movies do have some snazzy opening titles where
the composers could lay down the groundwork for the theme, and that didn’t really
happen with Iron Man. It kind of just jumped right into the action.
Ramin Djawadi: Exactly, and this one opens with AC/DC. So in a way, it does lay the
groundwork for the style because we tried to continue in that rock and roll vibe. So
what I was really left with, rather than lush themes, was going after riff-based rock
things. The difficulty I was facing was that if I tried to play melody on the guitars,
I was afraid that it would sound too dated. So I fell back onto rhythmic and thematic
ideas.
ScoreNotes: Now, what type of working relationship did you have with the director,
Jon Favreau? Did he have a keen ear towards the music that he wanted in the film?
Ramin Djawadi: Yeah, he was very involved from the beginning. We constantly talked
on the phone. The cutting room was just down the street, so he would come by as much
as he could, and I would play him anything I had, work-in-progress kind of things.
92 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

I didn’t have picture in the beginning. I just kind of played with ideas without picture.
Once I had picture, even though it was never really locked until the very end, he gave me
input as much as possible.
ScoreNotes: In taking a look at the movie, is there a particular scene that you really
relished scoring? Is there one that really stands out for you?
Ramin Djawadi: Let me see. Well, definitely the one when he flies off for the first time
with the Mark II. I thought it was a terrific scene just how the camera pans around to
see, and you see the face for the first time, and he sort of flies out and tests his suit. That
was always a wonderful scene, I thought.
ScoreNotes: Yeah, and I agree. I thought the music jumped out successfully during that
sequence, and it really kind of brought the origins of Iron Man to life in that one
sequence. That was well done.
Ramin Djawadi: Cool, thank you.
ScoreNotes: Now, are you still doing work on the television series Prison Break?
Ramin Djawadi: Yes, I am. We’re going into a fourth season, and I think it’s set to come
back in the fall [2008]. I’m not working on it currently.
ScoreNotes: Personally for you, what is the biggest difference between television and
film scoring?
Ramin Djawadi: Well, the turnaround in TV is much, much faster, and the involvement
in the feature is much different. There are many more changes, and the scenes are more
analyzed. It’s interesting that the process for the feature is longer, even though I try to
treat Prison Break as if it were a regular feature. I wrote themes for the characters and
for plotlines, and I’m actually trying to carry that through the show.
ScoreNotes: And just to touch on that point, when you say film scenes are analyzed a lot
more closely, is that a little more pressure for you as a composer? Is there a little more
weight on it?
Ramin Djawadi: Oh sure, of course, yeah. Just because there is more time, it happens
a lot that there will be multiple versions for a scene. You’ll write one scene, and it is
successful, and then everyone will agree to put it aside. It works. For two weeks, that
scene will be okay; then all of a sudden, you’ll write the scene after or before, or there
will be a picture scene, and then conceptually things don’t line up anymore. And then
that scene needs to be adjusted again. That happens all the time. So there’s definitely a
lot more pressure.
 Chapter 13 Keeping Score with Ramin Djawadi 93

ScoreNotes: I guess being creative is one thing, but being flexible is also another key
component to being a composer these days.
Ramin Djawadi: I think it’s a must. I always say if I write something and my director or
producer doesn’t like it and I like it so much, I can put it in the car and listen to it all
day. But if they are not happy with it, then it just needs to be adjusted until everyone is
happy with it. This attitude is really important to me.
ScoreNotes: And it sounds like you can’t take things too personally with the critique
that comes out.
Ramin Djawadi: Yeah, not at all. Obviously, you can raise your opinion, and it can be
discussed, but the key word is that it is a collaboration. You have to try and make
everybody happy. You can’t just say that what I just did here is absolutely perfect
and can’t be changed.
You have to be open-minded, absolutely.
ScoreNotes: Now, do you foresee a point in time where you might exclusively focus on
writing music for films?
Ramin Djawadi: Possibly. In fact, that’s actually what I’ve done more than television.
Prison Break is really the series that just kept me in there because it is so successful. But
overall, I’ve done more work in film than in television.
ScoreNotes: I always like to ask the composers this type of question: Are you happy
with the soundtrack release for Iron Man?
Ramin Djawadi: Oh, very happy. Yeah, for some reason some of my other features that
I’ve done didn’t have a soundtrack release. So it’s always exciting when the CD actually
comes out.
ScoreNotes: That’s good to hear. I do think that you did a wonderful job on scoring the
picture. I know there’s a lot of pressure and that there was a lot riding on it, but I think
everyone came through.
Ramin Djawadi: I’m glad to hear that; thank you very much. My fear was always that
I would be criticized for not delivering a traditional score that everybody was expecting.
I think either way, I couldn’t win. If I did that, I would have been compared to the other
one. We went so different that I think it was a fresh idea. . .going for the rock and roll
kind of thing.
ScoreNotes: Absolutely. Every superhero is different, so they can’t all have the same
type of theme.
94 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

Ramin Djawadi: Exactly. I totally agree.

ScoreNotes: In what ways has your career changed after having worked on such a high-
profile project like Iron Man?
Ramin Djawadi: I’m definitely trying to be more selective about my projects. I like the
variety of styles. I enjoy doing an animation movie after a big live-action feature.
ScoreNotes: After the intense experience like Iron Man, did an animated movie like Fly
Me to the Moon feel like a relief to work on in some ways?
Ramin Djawadi: I actually like the intensity. It pushes you to new limits. Every movie
has its own challenges. Fly Me to the Moon was actually already completed before
I started with Iron Man.
ScoreNotes: What were some of the thematic and classical inspirations that went into
Fly Me to the Moon?
Ramin Djawadi: This movie had a much more traditional approach. The idea here was
to split the score into three different categories. The humans, the flies, and space. Most
of the score is traditional orchestra except a few synth elements in space.
ScoreNotes: Shifting gears to your work on The Unborn—what were some of the tech-
niques you employed to amp up the fright factor in the film’s score?
Ramin Djawadi: The main elements other than orchestra and electronics were a solo
voice and solo electric violin. I did lot of experimenting with it.
ScoreNotes: Having explored a few different cinematic and television genres, can you
tell us what new and exciting adventures might be ahead for you?
Ramin Djawadi: I’m currently working on a beautiful animation movie, Around the
World in 50 Years. It’s about little sea turtles traveling the world and experiencing
how humans affect nature along the way. It’s a very moving and educational film
that hopefully will appeal to everyone.
ScoreNotes: I thank you for joining us today, and I sincerely hope we may be able to
catch up again sometime in the near future.
Ramin Djawadi: Absolutely. I would love to.
The Bonus Interviews

The following two interviews are included as bonus segments so that we

may see what’s new with veteran composers Bruce Broughton and Craig
Safan, two of my personal, all-time favorites (and two of my favorite inter-
views that I’ve conducted on ScoreNotes.com).
The contributions by these composers to film and television music are sub-
stantial, and I feel that if the movie producers of today can reflect back to
recent history, they’ll find that composers like Bruce and Craig stand ready
to deliver unforgettable scores as they always have. Just imagine, if you
will, a Craig Safan score for an Incredible Hulk movie or Bruce Broughton’s
take on a Narnia sequel. I tell you, we would be in for a grand experience
if such scenarios came to pass in the future.

95
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 Keeping Score with
14 Bruce Broughton

Used by permission.

Bruce Broughton.

S
ome of Bruce Broughton’s fantastic, well thought out contributions in film include
scores for Silverado, Young Sherlock Holmes, Tombstone, and Lost in Space. He
has an ability to write memorable, thematic work that sticks with you for quite
some time after you’ve heard it. There is also a sense of great timing and patience in his
style. The underscores Bruce often writes fit the needs of a film with great precision.
This discipline also paves the way for an even bigger payoff when his main themes are
fully realized. In short, what you’re getting with Bruce Broughton is a veteran composer
who simply knows how to deliver well-rounded, highly effective film scores that have
pleased filmmakers and fans for many years.
I had a great time speaking with Bruce for this interview. He shares an insight and
knowledge about film music I think most of you will find to be in-depth. There are
also compelling “behind the scenes” commentaries that Bruce shares about the compos-
ers of today, the challenges of staying active in the current Hollywood system, and what
it is about being a composer that he enjoys most.

97
98 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

This interview was originally recorded in 2007 and later updated exclusively for this
book. . .

Bruce Broughton (2007/2009)

ScoreNotes: In general, what do you enjoy most about writing music for film?
Bruce Broughton: The thing I like the most about film music is that I like the chance to
wear different hats, sort of like being an actor. Sometimes you’re a cowboy, sometimes
you’re a space dude, sometimes you’re a cop, and whatever. I like being able to take on
different characters. I like being able to figure out emotionally what’s happening in a
story. I like being able to write specifically. I like the opportunity to be able to work
with different combinations and practice my craft, particularly with orchestration,
because you find on every picture you’re working with a different ensemble, a different
group. Sometimes you’re working with synthesizers, sometimes you’re working with
strings, sometimes you’re working with brass, sometimes you’re working with all of
them. You’re working with them usually in different ways so that even if you had the
same combination for two or three different shows, you wouldn’t be doing them the
same. So, you get a chance to wear different hats and expand your craft and technique.
ScoreNotes: That actually ties into the next questions I’d like to ask. Your impressive
body of work spans many genres and themes. Now, if we’re talking about wearing dif-
ferent hats, which hat do you like to wear the most?
Bruce Broughton: I really like them all. I don’t like to do too much of the same thing for
too long. There was a time, particularly when I was doing a lot of television series; when
I was doing soap operas, I was sort of like the soap opera king. Then I got onto west-
erns, and then I went to cartoons. You can be associated with one or the other and find
that you’re getting a lot of the same kind work. I actually like to be a moving target. As
I look back, there are a few things that I’ve done a lot of. I’ve done a lot of Americana-
themed shows; I’ve done a lot of children’s shows. Someone asked me one time whether
it was intentional that I had done a lot of cult films, and I said, “I have?” He listed a
whole bunch of things like Ice Pirates, The Boy Who Can Fly, and such. He asked if that
was intentional, and I said I wasn’t even conscious of it.
I like to actually do a lot of different things. I think the hardest things to do are when
you’re really asked to do very little, when you’re asked not to say too much. In these
days, film scoring has become rather cool emotionally. Not cool in terms of its hipness
factor, but just cool in that it doesn’t want to say a lot. So sometimes music is just sort of
there as an alternative to sound effects, and those kinds of things drive me nuts. Those
are very hard to do.
 Ch ap t er 14 Keeping Score with Bruce Broughton 99

ScoreNotes: When music is treated as an afterthought that really irks me as well.

Bruce Broughton: It’s also. . .boring! I don’t like to write boring. That’s the other thing
about film; you really get a chance to get out and say something. That’s one of the things
about film music that is very different than other kinds of music. Film music is
done almost entirely as a work for hire, meaning that you’re basically writing on behalf
of somebody else. The producers, the legal author of the work, the director, or the stu-
dio can tell you what they want and how much of it. . .whether they like this or whether
they don’t like that. . .whether they like trombones or they don’t like trombones. They
can ask you to take things out and/or put things in and go up or down. That kind of
music is very specific, and sometimes it gets to be very, very difficult, particularly when
the people in charge are not in agreement as to what they want.
ScoreNotes: Yes, I suppose that would pose quite a few creative challenges.
Bruce Broughton: Yes, mostly political challenges. I mean, how can you keep all these
people happy? One time, I had 12 people in my room listening to my music, and
I couldn’t even figure out who they all were.
ScoreNotes: Yes, it’s daunting enough to really create something that fits a movie, but
when you’re mixing in all these different personalities that you have to please, I can
imagine that it gets quite difficult.
Bruce Broughton: It’s difficult, but you figure. . .all the film scores that have been writ-
ten have always tried to please some creative point of view. In film particularly, you’re
basically working with or for a director, one person who put this film together from the
concept to the idea, or at least from the script, all the way through. From the casting to
choosing the location manager, the cinematographer, the lighting person, the greens
person, and the costume person has all been a creative process. . .all these things add
to this person’s vision of what the film is, what the story is, and how the story should
be told. Then he or she brings the composer in. The composer is sort of the last chance
to really add something and to be part of that creative team. So it’s a very specific and
important function that we do, but it’s definitely a collaborative thing; and for that, you
have to listen to instruction, get ideas, and sometimes you have to argue and put your
ideas across and have them come back at you and find middle ground.
ScoreNotes: Do you ever find that some directors turn the reins over to your sensibilities
as a composer to find what feels and sounds right, or are they generally more apt to
impose a steadfast vision?
Bruce Broughton: Yeah, directors are human beings, so they come in all types. Some
people are not very knowledgeable about music, and some people are more knowledgeable
100 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

about music. I actually prefer people not to be too knowledgeable about music. I’d
rather talk about drama, their film, more than I want to talk about music. Some directors
have a lot of confidence, and they’ll basically leave you alone and walk away. Although
not so much these days as in prior days because now with synthesizers and computers, the
directors want to hear what they’re getting. So they are much more involved now in the
working process than they used to be 20 years ago. They’ll come over and listen to
the piece, talk about it, and make suggestions. Some people are more hands-on than
others. Some directors—this hasn’t happened to me, but it’s happened to some friends
of mine—some directors actually sit in the room while the poor composer is writing
music, and as the composer puts his hand on the keyboard, the director shouts out,
“No, no, not that chord!”
ScoreNotes: Oh my goodness! Talk about micromanaging.
Bruce Broughton: Yeah, but that doesn’t happen a lot. It can. It can run the whole
gamut from somebody saying, “Well, I’ll see you in a couple of weeks, and then you
can show me what you’ve got,” to someone saying, “I’ll see you tomorrow. I’m going to
be camping out here, and what’s for lunch.”
ScoreNotes: Well thankfully there are some directors who do let the composers do what
they specialize in, and a lot of times things work out wonderfully. I’d like to know what
your response is to the appreciation that the fans continue to show toward your scores,
such as Silverado, Young Sherlock Holmes, and Tombstone, to name a few.
Bruce Broughton: Well obviously I’m always happy to have my music appreciated. You
like to have your music appreciated. I think that sometimes the fans get confused in
separating, how can I say this, in separating too much the music from the film. The
music in the film, no matter what it is, was placed there by common agreement. It
was placed there because the director or the producers liked it or wanted it or thought
it was appropriate. I’ve read comments fans have made about certain scores, such as
“Oh the music was this or the music was that” and “He shouldn’t have done this or
should have done that,” without realizing that it probably wasn’t the composer who
made that decision. The film and score was the way that it was because it was done
under instruction. And it really doesn’t matter who the composer is. Whether it is John
Williams all the way down to the newest guy on the block, all the music is there because
it’s gotten past the director. It’s been approved by the director, the studio, and all the
people.
I think fans sometimes get so wrapped up in the music that they wish the music could do
this or that, but it really can’t. Sometimes also the music can’t do this or that because the
film doesn’t permit it. Like in some films, you have a great theme, and you never get a
 Ch ap t er 14 Keeping Score with Bruce Broughton 101

chance to use it. But in those films that you mentioned—Silverado, Young Sherlock
Holmes, and Tombstone—those are particularly emotionally rich scores. The one
I get talked to about most often is probably Tombstone, because it’s so over the top.
People ask me to write music or a concert piece and say, “Well we really liked Tomb-
stone. Could you write something sort of like that?” Meaning can you write something
which is emotional, something that has emotional content, which will get us moving,
will get us feeling something. . .will get the audience interested in what the music is.
Which I think is a valid request.
ScoreNotes: Do you suppose that part of the reason why we hear such similar sounding
scores in films today is a result of the director wanting to get something that closely
matches what he or she has as a temp track?
Bruce Broughton: Yeah, that’s a very specific problem in film these days. A couple of
years ago, a friend of mine who knew a lot of my music, called me up and sang me a
theme. He said, “What’s this theme, what movie is this?” And I said, “Oh this is easy. It
comes from a movie I did, Honey I Blew Up The Kid.” He said, “No, it’s not.” “Of
course it is!” I said. He insisted it wasn’t. “No, I wrote it. . .I should know,” I said. He
told me that it wasn’t and that I should go see this particular movie that he had heard it
in. I went to see the movie, and my theme was used. It was very similar, obviously very
similar. As I sat and watched the entire movie, I could hear all of my music that had
been used as the temp track. It had been refashioned, moved around so that it wasn’t
exactly the same, but it was definitely the model.
It was sort of like the girl that used to be a brunette that is now a redhead. She used to
wear green, but now she’s wearing blue. It’s sort of like that, you know. That happens a
lot. There are a few reasons why it happens a lot. Temp tracks, the idea of putting
temporary music in to see how it’s going to play, have always been a problem. It
used to be done years ago for scenes like montages or chases where the editor needed
to get a sense of timing and motion, so he or she would grab a piece and put it in there to
see how it would fit. . .to get a sense of how the scene played. But in the last 15 or
20 years, since the world has become digital, it’s very easy to find any piece of music
and be able to cut it down to fit almost any scene.
You see these films now that have not an original score, but only a temp track, a tem-
porary score. . .that’s going in for marketing, to get audience previews to get impressions as
to how the film will play. But the music, to an unsophisticated ear, sounds as though it’s
finished. It sounds like a score because it’s so technically perfect in terms of the editing.
But it’s actually a Frankenstein, a piece from this, a piece from that. As this temporary
score remains in the film, everybody gets used to it. The director likes it; the studio likes
it. Even when they don’t like it, they get used to it. And when it’s gone, they miss it. So
102 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

the pressure becomes upon the composer to do that. Some composers will do that.
They’ll write a piece that’s very similar to it, enough that they won’t get sued. Or they’ll
use it as a jumping off point for an original score. But it’s harder and harder to come up
with really original material when the temp tracks are so heavily in the film and there is
a lot of pressure to not change the music. And they just don’t want to change the music
because if the film is marketing well and it looks like they’re going to make a lot of
money when the film goes into general release, they don’t want the music to suddenly
twist it around and lose 20 percent of their earnings.
ScoreNotes: The composer is going to be trapped if the music makes it all the way to test
screenings and the people love it. You’ll then have to make the score that the people
who hired you want in the movie.
Bruce Broughton: I won’t mention any names or scores, but there are some very, very,
very famous and very well-known soundtracks over the last 20 years that were based on
other pieces. We probably all know what they are. But they were a result, surely, of a
temp track or a piece of music done by composers who have a lot of technique and
ability. It’s just becoming more and more prevalent because it’s a practice that isn’t
going to go away. There’s too much anxiety in films. If a film costs $20 million,
that’s a lot of money! If it costs $100 million, that’s really a lot of money! If you are
going to spend $100 million, you’re going to want to make back $100 million and more
so you can make a profit. Most films don’t make their money back.
There is a lot of tension on directors who have the responsibility for this huge budget to
keep the studio happy. They themselves want to be creatively and artistically happy.
And of course the composers want to make an artistic and a creative statement, too,
but they want to please the directors and keep working. Everybody wants to keep work-
ing. If a young director comes out and has a major failure, he can disappear. So, he’s
going to be very cautious. And making big-budget movies tends to be a very conserva-
tive affair. People aren’t going to make any crazy moves because they don’t want to take
the whole ship down. There’s a lot of money. So there are a lot of things at risk. There
are a lot of careers at risk. If a studio has too many flops, the guy who runs the studio
will be looking for another job, whether it’s his fault or not; that’s just the way that it
goes. Hollywood runs by the fickle finger of fate. Sometimes you’re a big hit, through an
accident, sometimes you’re not, through an accident, sometimes people like what you
do, and sometimes they don’t. That’s all a matter of taste. I’ll give you an example.
When Silverado first came out, it was not a big hit. It was in the theaters for a while, and
then it went away. . .but it never went completely away. It went immediately into videos
and people started renting it. And then once cable television came on, it started showing
on cable, and pretty soon it was on television. Well, now it’s on television all the time.
 Ch ap t er 14 Keeping Score with Bruce Broughton 103

You could hardly pass a week where you couldn’t find Silverado somewhere. People
say, “Oh, that was a big hit!” No, no it wasn’t; it just never went away. A lot of movies
are like that because the taste of the time was not ready to take on a new version of an
old fashioned genre.
ScoreNotes: I’d like to thank you for taking the time to chat with me. Your candor was
very refreshing.
Bruce Broughton: Thank you, I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you.
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 Keeping Score with
15 Craig Safan

Used by permission.

Craig Safan.

M
ost of you will know Craig Safan from that little pub in Boston called
Cheers. And why not, he wrote the music for the episodes as well as the
show’s theme song, which is perhaps one of the most popular in television
history (it’s probably popping in your head even now as you read this). It’s quite an
iconic accomplishment for sure. However, I know Craig for another reason, and it’s
not for the music he wrote for that local tavern. It’s his music from a film that takes
place just a little further away from Massachusetts. . .The Last Starfighter.
You see, when I was growing up, Safan’s majestic theme from The Last Starfighter was
as influential to me as that of Star Wars or Raiders of the Lost Ark. It was the type of
fanfare that inspired me greatly and, in fact, was one of the key factors that led me to
appreciate film music the way I do. Needless to say, I was thrilled at having a chance
to interview Craig, and, as it turns out, I was not disappointed.

105
106 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

In this discussion, Craig catches us up to date with what he’s been up to, shares news
about a sequel to The Last Starfighter, and reflects about his work on Cheers. He also
shares candid opinions about just what is wrong with some of the film music being
written today.
This interview, originally entitled “Into the Starscape with Composer Craig Safan” was
recorded in March 2009. . .

Craig Safan (2009)

ScoreNotes: Can you please catch us up to date with what you’ve been up to recently?
Craig Safan: I’ve been spending less time on films the last few years and more time
developing theater. I started out as a theater composer when I was in college, and in
my mind, I always thought I would be writing for musical theater, and somehow I ended
up in this film career. As that has tended to slow down in the last few years, I’ve gotten
more and more into my original desire, which was to write theater. So I’ve been living
half time in New York and half time in Los Angeles. I have three musicals that are now
in development.
ScoreNotes: I’d like to touch on one of your notable and prominent works, The Last
Starfighter. What are your recollections from that film as its 25th Anniversary nears?
Craig Safan: First of all, it was an extremely exciting project. At the time, it was a pretty
big movie, and it was nice to get a larger movie after having done a bunch of smaller
movies. And I love working with Nick Castle, whom I had done a movie with previously
called Tag: The Assassination Game. We’ve done a lot of movies together over the
years, but that movie was exciting because it was a big jump for both of us. I loved
the idea of working with a giant orchestra and of finding a way of trying to make it
mine. I mean, there was no way you could write outside of the sort of late romantic,
John Williams model. There was no way the studio would ever accept that. So I had to
try and find a way to make it mine, and hopefully I did. It certainly has lasted and keeps
being re-recorded all the time, whether in Prague or in London or wherever. It was just
great fun to do. A lot of work, a lot of notes [laughs]. . .a lot of music.
ScoreNotes: Are you aware of any special plans surrounding the anniversary of it?
Craig Safan: Well, I know there’s going to be a 25th Anniversary DVD released. And I
know there’s a special section of it that’s going to be interviews with various people
involved. I was interviewed about a month ago on camera. They interviewed [the direc-
tor] Nick Castle, [the writer] John Betuel, and Catherine Mary Stewart. I’m sure they
got Jeff Okun; they got all the computer guys. But the guy who is doing it is trying to
 Cha pt e r 15 Keeping Score w i t h C r a i g Sa f a n 107

sort of put it together in some sort of inventive form, almost like an action comic book,
so it isn’t just talking heads. I know there’s going to be some screenings here in Los
Angeles. I hear there’s going to be a big screening at the Arrow Theater, which is this
small independent theater in Santa Monica that does a lot of premieres and a lot of
special shows.
ScoreNotes: Does any part of you wish The Last Starfighter could be made with today’s
technology, or might that ruin the charm of it?
Craig Safan: Well, the film was definitely of the period that it was made in, as every film
ends up being. And that was what was happening then. That was cutting edge then.
Now. . .it’s passé. It’s something you can do at home on your laptop. I can almost do
the score at home on my laptop [laughs]. The other thing is that there are plans for a
sequel. There has been a script written, it’s been storyboarded, and I think they’re just
sort of waiting for the final go. At least as far as I know, I’ve been asked to be involved
in that. That would be exciting, and that will be done, obviously, with contemporary
methods.
But you can’t really go back. Every show has its own look. You still can see some of the
great films like The Day the Earth Stood Still or Invaders From Mars. I mean, those
effects are great. They’re some amazing effects that were done in the ’50s. You wouldn’t
want to redo them; it would be sort of silly, I think. And a lot of the CGI today. . .it
looks, at least to my eyes, over the top. They’re trying to do too much. I felt that some of
the later Star Wars films were just too complex. You lose the beauty of the focus. I think
people are now backing off and only using it where you really need to or using it in ways
that are sort of subtle and you don’t quite realize it’s being done.
ScoreNotes: I do agree that special effects are at their best when they’re blended into the
makeup of the film.
Craig Safan: I mean Starfighter is quaint because there’s so much variation in terms of
the level of the execution of the special effects, just because there was a limitation of
time and technology. So there are some scenes that really look a little cartoony and
other scenes that seemed to look a little better.
I would be scoring it, and I would look up on the video screen and there would just be a
little white dot going across a black screen, and they would say, “That’s the Kodan
warship.” You’d have to imagine it was this huge thing so that you could write this
gigantic score and assume eventually the visual would come up to the size of the
score, and it did. But it was a fun process with a lot of levels. You’d see the spaceship,
then you’d see the background, then they’d start adding layers of atmosphere, which
108 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

was fog and mist. All that was added layer by painstaking layer to make it feel like a
reality.
ScoreNotes: In some sense, I guess it’s like acting against a blue screen in the manner in
which you were asked to compose it.
Craig Safan: You have to just sort of go with the script and imagine it. . .and assume the
director knows what he’s talking about and go for it.
ScoreNotes: Moving on to another medium, and specifically the television arena, can
you tell us about your time on Cheers?
Craig Safan: When I got the call for Cheers, I was friends with the producer and direc-
tor, Jimmy Burrows, and he called me up and said he was doing this new series and
wanted me to work on it. I read the script, and I said, “Let’s make it sound like you
wandered into this bar, and it’s like one o’clock in the morning, and Woody Allen is
sitting there with a little band, and he’s like not very good, but he’s playing clarinet, and
all the notes are somewhat sour. And let’s just stick with that. Let’s just make it slightly
weird, off key, and not quite good.” And we stuck to that, and from the very first epi-
sode, it had that sound. That stuck with the show the whole time. It was always just a
little off, a little weird. Kenny Wild, who played the bass on a lot of those sessions, used
to call it the “bar band from Mars.” But the sound of the show was from the very first
episode, and we just pretty much stuck to it.
I really believe that an important aspect to doing any film scoring, and especially tele-
vision, is coming up with a very specific palette of sound. You don’t just want to go in
and say, “Okay, I can do everything I want to, every sound I want to.” You sort of give
yourself limitations, and then you have to work from that, and you end up being more
creative because you’re stuck. It’s like a painter saying, “Okay, I’m only going to paint
in yellow and blue today.” So I believe that’s a really good way to approach a score.
ScoreNotes: And we can use that as a segue into what television and film scoring have
evolved into. I would just like to get your thoughts on what you think about the current
state of film and television music.
Craig Safan: I don’t follow it as closely because I feel like I’m sort of a little out of it
right now. But a lot of what I hear is just very standardized, which is sort of boring to
me, although I’m sure I wrote a lot of standardized music, too, especially in all the TV
movies I did over the years. There’s occasionally a show that I really think is terrific.
You know, I like the music a lot to Revolutionary Road and to Wall-E. I think that Tom
Newman is doing just really interesting music. But a lot of music is just to me really
sappy and over the top and just really, really obvious.
 Cha pt e r 15 Keeping Score w i t h C r a i g Sa f a n 109

In terms of TV music, the big change that happened—and it certainly happened when I
was working too—was that whereas you used to meet other players, you now really
don’t. That’s been true since the mid-’80s; it’s like you can pretty much do a full tele-
vision score in your garage studio with one or two players. All the reality shows sound
like they’re all library shows, although I know they all aren’t. It’s just like endless
rhythm and weird sounds, which have their place; but I guess at this point in my life,
it’s just not that interesting. It’s very rare that I hear anything musically that’s really
interesting. In fact, in TV, I’d have a hard time naming something that’s musically
interesting.
ScoreNotes: From my perspective, I’ve grown numb by the generic scores that are put
to use.
Craig Safan: It’s the same thing over and over and over. It’s sort of boring at this point.
Even the movies, too. That’s why I think Slumdog Millionaire won for best score. I
mean at least it was a breath of fresh air. I think a lot of those other scores, even the
nominated ones, are technically great, but they’re just musically boring. They’ve been
done so much. You know, like Benjamin Button to me was a boring score. I know
people liked it, but it’s like I’ve heard it a million times, and it’s like how many ways
can you slice that apple? Which is why I liked Wall-E, because I thought it was very
restrained and didn’t have to be, so it was a very intellectual score. I loved Slumdog
Millionaire because it put a smile on my face. It was fun, it was inventive, it was
silly. It was just a great score that fit with the film absolutely perfectly.
ScoreNotes: Indeed, I felt it had a great charm to it.
Craig Safan: It was absolutely charming because there was a certain naiveté to the whole
movie. If you just think of it in story terms, it was a pretty tough movie with a lot of
really, really dark scenes. But the whole movie was almost kind of played like a fairy
tale so that the darkness was like a fairy tale darkness in a way. So, yeah, I absolutely
loved that movie and thought the score was great and totally deserved the award. But I
thought the other really good score was Wall-E, in terms of the nominees.
ScoreNotes: With your theater projects currently ongoing, might you look to a sequel to
The Last Starfighter to get you back into scoring film?
Craig Safan: If it happens, it happens. It’s sort of a fickle business. I guess I can’t really
complain; I worked almost non-stop for 30 or 35 years. I never was out of work. But it’s
a business that when you get to be at a certain age, you just don’t get hired as much
because the people who hire you aren’t working very much and the young executives
want to bring their own people in. I think that’s just true in all of the aspects of film
110 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Film Composers

business. There are always a few guys who keep working, but most of the people start to
fade away. I just think it’s the nature of the business, so I’m realistic about it. Obviously,
if you have a movie and it’s a hit, suddenly you’re hot again. I can remember I used to be
friends with Elmer Bernstein; he helped me start in the business, and he was sort of
unemployed. Suddenly John Landis came around and remembered how much he
liked Elmer’s music and hired him for Animal House. It revitalized his career when
he was in his 50s. So, you know, it can happen, but we’ll see.
ScoreNotes: I guess the level of frustration for me, if you want to call it that, is when you
know there are so many talented composers available and you hear some of this new
crop of composers essentially delivering the same type of style and technique. It really
makes you long for the heroes you grew up with to come back.
Craig Safan: Well, you know, you’ve got to go out and make a movie and hire me.
ScoreNotes: [Laughing] There ya go. . .
Craig Safan: I think it’s just the reality of the business; you can’t be bitter about it. I can
remember when I was starting out being on these panels at AFI or ASCAP, or whatever,
and being with a lot of the older guys at the time; you know they had the same com-
plaints. It’s the nature of the business. For better or for worse, it’s not a business that
necessarily will take you into your later years. . .even though you may be a much better
composer. I think I’m a much better composer now than I was when I was working a
real lot in the ’80s and early ’90s. But, you know, I’m doing other things and that’s fine.
I did very well and certainly have a lot of projects I’m proud of. It’s just the nature of it.
You can’t dwell on it too long, and it’s sort of out of your control, because as much as
you rant and rave, that’s not going to get you work.
ScoreNotes: That’s certainly an even-keeled approach you’ve adopted.
Craig Safan: Well, you really don’t have much choice. . .[chuckles]
ScoreNotes: Speaking of projects that you’re proud of, what are some of the hallmarks
that stand out for you as you look back at your career?
Craig Safan: Well, Cheers and The Last Starfighter are the ones I’m best known for. The
other ones I that really like. . .I love the music to Mr. Wrong, even though the movie
didn’t do very well. I just think that was a really, really fun score, and it had a lot of
elements that had to be pulled together. The other one I like a lot is Stand and Deliver,
which was a very early electronic score. It just works well with the picture, and I love
the picture. . .and I know the picture has touched a lot of people because people still
come up and talk to me about how much that film has changed their lives. And it
 Cha pt e r 15 Keeping Score w i t h C r a i g Sa f a n 111

was a very small score, unlike Mr. Wrong and Starfighter. I liked Stand and Deliver
because it was just a very, very low budget, good score, and I loved working with
those guys.
I still like Remo Williams; that’s a fun score and fun to listen to. Again, that was a
really, really complex thing to put together. We were on a whole bunch of 24-track
machines all slaved together. We had a full orchestra; we had a Korean band, probably
about a 12- or 15-piece Korean group, that could not possibly play in time or in tune.
And then, of course, I had the Synclavier going full blast on that, too. So putting all that
stuff together was Dennis Sands, who was the mixer on that, and who did a great job.
It’s very, very difficult, and this is pre–Pro Tools, to make all that stuff work and to
make it all feel like music. That was complicated.
ScoreNotes: Well Craig, it’s really been an honor for me, as a long-time fan of yours, to
be able to talk film music with you. I hope we can catch up again in the future.
Craig Safan: Absolutely, I would love to. It’s always fun to talk to you.
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 PART
Interviews with Today’s Top
Television Composers II
This page intentionally left blank
 Keeping Score with
16 Murray Gold

T
he music from the BBC’s modern Doctor Who series is some of the best ever
produced for the small screen. While that may be a rather ambitious claim to
make, I know of no other way to introduce Murray Gold, whose music for the
series has left an irreversible, positive impression on me. In fact, it’s the type of music
that sparks my imagination through its diverse palette of colors and unending charm.
When I’m asked to make general soundtrack recommendations, the Season 3 and
Season 4 soundtracks of Doctor Who are at the very top of my list. My hope is that
after you read this interview, you’ll set out to discover what it is that has me so excited
about the work of Murray Gold. . .

Murray Gold (2009)

ScoreNotes: How would you best summarize your experience of working on the Doctor
Who series?
Murray Gold: It’s been a bit of a blur, actually. I sort of changed countries halfway
through and carried on doing the same job from New York. It’s been interesting seeing
the changes in the storytelling and the new ideas that come through. To me, it’s been
pretty much a steady meat and potatoes job, in a way.
ScoreNotes: Well, I have to tell you—those are some gourmet meat and potatoes,
because I would stack your work from Seasons 3 and 4 with any soundtracks that
have been released in many years!
Murray Gold: Thank you, Tom.
ScoreNotes: How pleased are you with the Doctor Who soundtrack releases from Silva
Screen records? Also, was it difficult to select and arrange the cues that finally made it
onto each disc?
Murray Gold: It’s always a nightmare to get them done. They’re not a vanity project,
but if I don’t do them, it’s not like the world is going to end. I’ve normally got a million
things in November that I’m doing, and that’s also the same time that people are saying

115
116 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

I need to get the album together and mastered. This is obviously the third one to come
out, and this time I called Jake Jackson, who is the mix engineer on Doctor Who, and he
actually flew to New York to help me choose what was going to go on the album, and
that made it a bit easier. In the middle of that month, I was writing a movie soundtrack
and also doing the Doctor Who Christmas Special and also scoring a four-part British
period drama called The Devil’s Whore. So I had my work cut out for me.
ScoreNotes: That’s taking multi-tasking to new heights!
Murray Gold: I’m very monogamous when it comes to writing music. I actually like to
have one thing in my head, and I like to obsess about it. I like that every idea I have goes
to that one thing. I like to know that my head is just doing one thing. But yeah, that was
tricky, actually, doing three or four things at once. And a lot of Hollywood composers
do that (scoring three or four movies at once), but it’s just a nightmare doing that for
me. You know, you want one protagonist that you’re trying to write a theme for, and
you want to develop that.
ScoreNotes: With all that’s going on, do you have any plans to remain active on the
spinoff series, Torchwood?
Murray Gold: Well, there is a really big five-parter coming up, but Ben Foster is scoring
that, and he’s doing a great job on it.
ScoreNotes: And can you describe the collaborative relationship you have with Ben?
Murray Gold: Well, he’s a friend, really, and he’s a great musician. I sort of installed
him in Torchwood and got him the job. I sort of started off the series by writing the
theme and the first and fourth episodes and some other stuff later on. He’s really gone
out on his own with it now. It’s exciting for him because it gets a lot of exposure, and
it’s good for him.
ScoreNotes: While listening to Torchwood, a lot of positive things really came out of it,
such as Captain Jack’s bold and rousing theme. Do you like working within that
context, writing thematic material that shifts from one episode to the next?
Murray Gold: Yeah, I think that’s the puzzle part of it. I think you can have infinite
variations of the same thing by changing the background, context, and style, which is a
really good way of working. I think it’s really important to make a decision about what
materials you’re using and just to stick to it. For example, in Doctor Who and the
Cyberman, there are like six notes, nothing particularly unusual about it, and nothing
particularly creative; but I just said, “This is the Cyberman.” Eventually, you just play it
over and over again, and essentially it becomes sort of iconic.
 Cha pt e r 16 Keeping Score with M urray G ol d 117

ScoreNotes: Can you describe the evolution of certain cues? For instance, might you
touch on how the track, “All the Strange, Strange Creatures,” became the featured
cue for the trailer?
Murray Gold: It wasn’t supposed to take over the role that it did. It was just written for
one episode; I think it was written for Gridlocked. I think Gridlocked was on the slate
early. Obviously, we get a few episodes finished before the season actually runs on air.
Gridlocked was one of the ones that was done before airtime. I think the mill got hold of
that music and ran it as the trailer. I never intended it as the trailer; it was just some
music for that episode. It took on more of a kind of important role because it had been
identified as the trailer music, which made it very fore-grounded.
ScoreNotes: A destiny of its own, as they would say.
Murray Gold: Yeah, there are so many different ways that the music becomes impor-
tant. Sometimes by putting it on the album, it becomes important. Sometimes, it’s just
that one little bit of music that was in an important position in one of the episodes
becomes important because it turns up on YouTube and people start wanting it. Some-
times you just can’t help noticing that it’s popular.
ScoreNotes: Right, the power of YouTube.
Murray Gold: I actually watch a lot of stuff on YouTube. Some of it I get really bummed
off at because people upload the whole album and slap each other on the back and think
they’re doing a really good thing. It’s kind of annoying. Silva Screen takes the trouble,
and you know they don’t work on a very high profit margin, and does a very good
service in releasing the film scores. Then someone sticks it on the Web the day that
it’s released. That’s kind of annoying.
ScoreNotes: Oh yes, absolutely. In those terms of making it available for people to just
grab, that’s bad ethics.
Murray Gold: I don’t think the people that do it really realize that it’s harmful to the
record company. It’s not that much for one person to pay for one record; but if someone
puts the music up, it means that 100,000 people can take it. Eventually, it means that
companies like Silva Screen, that don’t work for huge profits, won’t put it out. We need
them to put this music out; otherwise, it just won’t come out. Then there would be
nothing to rip off.
ScoreNotes: That’s a good point. Especially with Silva Screen actually packaging the
CDs the way they do, with such great care, as well as the extensive liner notes. You
can tell that there is a passion involved for the music.
118 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

Murray Gold: It’s a total passion. They love it and are passionate about film music.
They do a lot of rerecordings and reissue a lot of the stuff that people have asked
for, and they are very conscientious about responding to their audiences and their mar-
ket. So if there’s stuff that people want to hear released, and they can’t get a hold of,
Silva Screen is the kind of company that will listen and do a release of a record, a CD,
later on. So I definitely support them.
ScoreNotes: Now in looking ahead a bit, do you foresee wanting to stay involved with
the Doctor Who series for an indefinite amount of time? Have you put some sort of
timetable in your head as far as your involvement with this?
Murray Gold: No, not really. Everything is up in the air and is up for debate.
ScoreNotes: What do you think are the biggest differences between writing music for
television versus writing scores for movies?
Murray Gold: I think with film you don’t get a chance to test out your themes. You
don’t get an episode one. You’ve got to make your point and show your journey
within 90 minutes to two hours. And that’s the only journey that you’re going to
take; there’s no revisiting it. So you must be very bold from the beginning and
confident that you know exactly the route that you’re taking through the material.
With television, especially long-form television, you’re dealing with a six-month
work process. Like on Doctor Who, the first two or three episodes of the series are a
kind of testing ground to a certain extent. They may be a chance to try on familiar
themes, and the ones that stick can come back later on, but you already know that
you built up an audience for them. But with a film, the audience is only there for an
hour and a half. You have to say what you have to say. You have to smuggle the new
themes into their subconscious. You want them to come out and hear that music
again and immediately think of that material and that movie. It’s harder in a way to
do that.
But the feature film I’m working on right now [Hoodwinked 2] is the one. . .I’ve never
thought I’d do a film where you’d get as much variation as you do on Doctor Who.
This film I’m working on now is an animation that really, really moves fast. It’s very
interesting because every single frame is being drawn. If you watch drama and an actor
does something cool, you want to score it. But here, everything, the way they walk and
talk, every frame has been thought about and drawn, so you really want to do the best
thing you can for it. It’s very interesting.
ScoreNotes: So I guess it sounds like you really have to take a close and tight look,
almost minute to minute.
 Cha pt e r 16 Keeping Score with M urray G ol d 119

Murray Gold: Frame by frame. You just want to hear everything. You want to hear as
many cue points, and then of course you want to back off and sort of make sure that you
aren’t being too busy or exhausting the audience. You do have to watch for that as well.
Comparing Doctor Who with this feature animation, television executives especially are
always concerned about losing their audience because of the flip button. You really
want to make sure that it’s impossible for them to leave. You can’t carry on that way
in a movie. You can’t be at the audience all the time. You have to back off. With an
animation, especially one like this with a ninety-minute car chase, you have to avoid the
pitfalls of exhausting the audience. But it’s really good fun.
ScoreNotes: With the restrictions of writing for film, would that sway you from pursu-
ing writing scores for movies in the future, do you think?
Murray Gold: I get a kind of relish about certain projects which is really independent of
whether they are film or TV, or whatever they are. I don’t do adverts as a general rule,
but otherwise everything is up for grabs. Sometimes it surprises people the things I get
excited about. I don’t predict it either. There’s always a certain type of music that I want
to get paid to write. I want to be paid to write stuff that is adventurous and fun and
exciting and that communicates my love of music. And those kinds of projects don’t
come along all that often. Nearly all the ones I choose have that quality about them.
I’m allowed to write that kind of music.
ScoreNotes: As we wrap up here, I’d like to say that if I were to ever travel the cosmos,
your music would be what I would take with me. That’s how much I enjoyed listening
to your material on Doctor Who.
Murray Gold: Wow, that’s a huge compliment.
ScoreNotes: Keep on doing a great job, Murray!
Murray Gold: Thanks, Tom.
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 Keeping Score with
17 James Dooley

Used by permission.

James Dooley.

J
ames Dooley knows no bounds! He’s successfully written music for “The Big
Three” (movies, television, videogames), and he isn’t looking back.
For this interview, I mainly centered our discussion on his fine work for the imaginative
television series, Pushing Daisies. The music that he so enthusiastically wrote for it
made him an Emmy Award winner in Season One and also gave him an increased
visibility in the industry. Not to be outshined, however, is James’s accomplished
work in both videogames and film, where he has composed music for significant titles
like inFAMOUS (videogame) and the 2009 box office hit, Obsessed.
We explore the facets of each of these notable and varied projects in the following,
informative segment. . .

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122 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

James Dooley (2009)

ScoreNotes: Did taking the reins of a television series seem daunting to you in any way?
James Dooley: Pushing Daisies required a massive amount of music. Each episode
contained approximately forty minutes, and the schedules only allowed for six days
of writing time. I spent every waking moment writing. A show like Daisies really
puts on the pressure, but I wouldn’t have had it any other way. The stress and the
time constraints were a part of Daisies, and I loved dedicating myself to the show.
Where else are you going to be able to write music for a fairytale-esque, romantic
comedy based on death that includes odd instruments like harpsichords, finger snaps,
and music boxes?
ScoreNotes: The music in Pushing Daisies truly has a memorable, playful charm about
it. What aspects of the overall concept did you find to be the most inspiring?
James Dooley: The characters, themes, and the subtext in Pushing Daisies were all very
inspiring musically. Each character also had their own theme, and when they interacted,
their musical themes interacted as well. Each character’s theme was defined instrumen-
tally. Olive was defined by a saxophone and strings. Emerson had this crime jazz motif,
which was an acoustic bass with finger snaps. This way, when a character came
onscreen, they had much more of a presence.
The show revolved around the two main characters, Chuck and Ned, and their relation-
ship. The music for the show was often driven by this love theme. Their love was
never fulfilled, so I wrote the music to reflect both hope and sadness at the same
time. There was also a childlike quality to it, because they are children when they
first fall in love.
The musical subtext of Daisies was very fun to write. The music was never really
playing what you would see on the screen because there was so much going on in
each scene. We also had to mislead the audience with the music. There was a murder
on the show every week, so I had to write the music to insinuate that each suspect was in
fact the murderer.
ScoreNotes: Looking back at your Emmy Award for Pushing Daisies—please tell us
what your initial reaction was when you found out you had won.
James Dooley: When I heard them announce that I had won the Emmy, I experienced
the greatest sense of relief. The Emmy holds this great sense of significance, and once
you are nominated, there is a lot of pressure to win. I was so glad that I didn’t have to
hear anyone say, “At least it was nice to be nominated.”
 C ha p t e r 1 7 Keeping Score w i t h J a me s D o o l e y 123

ScoreNotes: For a series that had so much talent associated with it and so many positive
accolades bestowed upon it, do you feel that it could have gone on for a much longer
run than it ultimately did?
James Dooley: Absolutely. The show was in a very sustainable place. If the writer’s
strike had not occurred, I believe the show would still be on the air. We were doing
very well, the ratings were great, and we had the support of the fans and the network. It
was an unfortunate event.
ScoreNotes: Aside from your impressive work on Daisies, can you tell us about some of
your recent projects in other mediums?
James Dooley: I just finished the videogame for PS3 called inFAMOUS. It is about a
modern-day superhero who has to make the choice between right and wrong. I also just
finished the film Obsessed, starring Beyoncé Knowles and Ali Larter. The film has a
Fatal Attraction–like quality. I just started working on the videogames Nerf for the
Wii and Jax and Daxter for the PSP.
ScoreNotes: How does composing a videogame like inFAMOUS compare to the assign-
ment of scoring a television series? Is one more challenging to manage than the other?
James Dooley: Daises, having an abnormally large amount of music, contained about
forty minutes of music per episode. A videogame like inFAMOUS, on the other hand,
usually contains three hours of music. A large amount of music is required for video-
games because you have to write music for each place the character goes and the dif-
ferent actions he does. With inFamous, I started with the trailer for the game and spent
quite a while perfecting it before moving on to the score. I would say that the most
challenging part of scoring inFAMOUS was keeping track of all the elements that my
fellow collaborators and I created.
ScoreNotes: What was your experience like working on the film Obsessed?
James Dooley: Obsessed is a romantic thriller starring Beyoncé Knowles and Ali Larter.
I went straight from working on Pushing Daisies to scoring Obsessed. The two pieces
couldn’t be more different. Daisies had a large amount of thematic material. Obsessed,
on the other hand, had a basic musical theme that ran throughout the film and drove
everything forward.
ScoreNotes: For its budget, the movie did quite well at the box office. What was it about
the film’s formula that attracted audiences the way it did?
James Dooley: I think audiences were attracted to Obsessed because it is a very contem-
porary and emotional movie. We decided to go in an emotional direction with the music
124 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

for the film. The piano sequence that plays in the beginning of the movie is the main
musical theme. It is repeated throughout the film, but changes subtly as the film
progresses. It eventually becomes distorted as Ali Larter’s character becomes crazier
and crazier.
ScoreNotes: As a modern era composer who has found success in movies, television, and
videogames, what would you say is the key factor in being able to write effectively in all
three mediums?
James Dooley: To understand the different nature of each medium, you have to be
aware of the timeline of each project. For example, film and television runs on a
fixed timeline. Films play without interruption. The music in these mediums generally
builds over time as the story progresses. In videogames, there is no fixed timeline. The
music needs to reflect the things that the characters choose to do and the things that they
interact with. The main focus in composing videogames is making the experience
interesting for the gamer.
ScoreNotes: How has your style evolved from your first feature film, When a Stranger
Calls, and what was expected from you as a composer from the industry in general?
James Dooley: When I scored Stranger, everyone really liked the temporary music that
was added to the film, but everyone had a different opinion on how to change it for the
film. I basically revised the score over and over again until they ran out of time.
With Obsessed, I went in a different direction from the temporary music, and I was able
to bring more to the table. I added more finesse to the music in Obsessed and could
write it more in a romantic way. I would probably have been afraid to write like this
when doing When a Stranger Calls.
 Keeping Score with
18 Christopher Lennertz

Used by permission.

Christopher Lennertz.

C
hristopher Lennertz is a dynamic talent in the composing business. Truthfully,
his portfolio is so versatile that I could have slotted him into any of the parts in
this book. After all, he’s a young but accomplished film composer who has
achieved success in television, in movies, and in the arena of game music. In fact, one
of my all-time favorite videogame scores is the music he provided for Medal of Honor:
European Assault, a score that unlocks the dramatic impact that game music offers (and
it’s one of my favorites from the series). However, I ultimately decided to place him in
an area where he has received perhaps his most notoriety, and that would be for his
superb work on the television series Supernatural. . .

Christopher Lennertz (2009)

ScoreNotes: Can you describe your experiences as a film and media composer thus far in
your career? Have there been any surprises along the way?

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126 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

Christopher Lennertz: I’ve had a very fortunate and amazing ride in the business so
far. Most importantly, I’ve been able to work with some amazing artists like Basil
Poledouris and Michael Kamen. I learned so much watching them and being part of
their process that when I branched out on my own I really felt ready to continue and
follow in their footsteps. I think the only surprise has perhaps been the vast importance
of the business side of this career. There are so many wonderful composers out there,
but one really needs to also get the importance of personality and how that plays into
the equation as well.
ScoreNotes: You have composed music for television, movies, and videogames. Which
medium do you find to be the most appealing to write for?
Christopher Lennertz: I prefer to consider all mediums under the category of dramatic
music, and am happy writing for all of them. As long as the story or situation is
compelling, then I will definitely enjoy lending my musical voice.
ScoreNotes: Have you had any situations in which you were composing for different
projects during the same time frame? If so, how were you able to juggle the workload in
a situation like that?
Christopher Lennertz: I often have a few projects at various stages of the composition
process going on at the same time. Most of the time, I’ve been fortunate to have a wide
variety of styles and genres to compose for, and that allows me to move between the
projects with little difficulty. It actually keeps everything fresh and exciting.
ScoreNotes: You’ve received accolades for your work on the television show Supernat-
ural, including an Emmy nomination. How positive an experience has working on the
show been for you?
Christopher Lennertz: Supernatural has been an amazing experience from the very
beginning. A close friend of mine from film school, Eric Kripke, created the show
and asked me to be involved. I had scored many of Eric’s films before, so we had a
great shorthand in communicating about music. The show itself is fantastic, weaving
scares, mythology, and emotion through the entire arc of the series.
ScoreNotes: What do you feel are some key elements of the show that has made it a
success?
Christopher Lennertz: I think the strong chemistry of Sam and Dean, the Winchester
brothers, is what really makes the show work. They are great and very believable
together. Along with this, Eric’s vision and scope really set the show apart. It has
grand themes, but is always presented in a very real way through family drama.
 Chapter 18 Keeping Score with Christopher Lennertz 127

ScoreNotes: Shifting over to your work on videogames—what did it mean for your
career to have been involved with the Medal of Honor series?
Christopher Lennertz: It was amazing. To follow Giacchino and work on a series that
Spielberg created was an absolute dream. The great thing about MOH was that it
had such a vast and powerful historical perspective from which to draw upon, in a
musical sense. You already had this amazing back story of World War II that could
influence and guide the emotions of the musical score. It was fantastic.
ScoreNotes: Did you confer with the composer of the first installments, Michael
Giacchino, at all during your time on this game series?
Christopher Lennertz: Yes, I spoke with Michael as soon as I was hired. I knew I had
huge shoes to fill, and I wanted him to know that I was a fan and would try to continue
his musical legacy on the series. He was incredibly gracious and offered me great advice
and support whenever I might need it.
ScoreNotes: We often see game-to-film adaptations of fantastical, fictional fare but
rarely for historically-driven material. Do you think a film version of the Medal of
Honor series would be feasible?
Christopher Lennertz: I think that in many ways, Saving Private Ryan was the inspira-
tion for MOH, so I’m not sure that it would make sense to go back to the theaters. Plus,
there are so many amazing, true stories in the history of the war that the best idea might
be to use one of those as a storyline.
ScoreNotes: On the topic of movies—can you recap some of the key film projects you
have worked on?
Christopher Lennertz: Well, my most recent film is called Adam; it’s a drama with a
comedic touch that Fox Searchlight is releasing this July. It’s a wonderful love story in
which the lead character has Asperger’s syndrome. Other than that, I’d say I’ve become
known for both my comedy and family work, such as Alvin and the Chipmunks, Meet
the Spartans, and The Perfect Holiday, as well as my Horror work on Clive Barker’s
Saint Sinner [in addition to my ongoing duties with Supernatural].
ScoreNotes: In Meet the Spartans, the premise was predictably silly, as intended. Your
score, however, was not. You created a soundtrack that intentionally played it straight,
so to speak. Can you talk about the impact a score has when it plays opposite of the
comedy onscreen?
Christopher Lennertz: That is an approach that I learned firsthand from the master.
I was fortunate enough to study with Elmer Bernstein, and no one has ever scored
128 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

comedy as well in my opinion. He was a true genius, and his timing was perfect. He
always said that a straight score will actually enhance the humor on the screen, much
like a straight man in a comedy sketch. It actually highlights the comedy. I know Stripes,
Caddyshack, and Animal House by heart, so that musical palette definitely influences
my comedy scoring. Those were the classics!
ScoreNotes: Do you think your music for Meet the Spartans might pick up some
consideration for you the next time someone in Hollywood sets out to make a fantasy
epic? It really is an excellent, stylish score that packs a bit of a punch!
Christopher Lennertz: Thank you. I hope so. . .but I doubt it. We’ll see, perhaps if it gets
temped in the right film and no one mentions where it came from. I certainly am very
proud of the score, but sometimes producers want to pigeonhole creative people a bit. I
like to think that I can do anything though.
ScoreNotes: When you reach your top goals in film composing, will you maintain an
interest in television and game scores?
Christopher Lennertz: Really, my top goal is to be able to write great music to support a
great story. . .that, and work with people whom I like, respect, and admire. The medium
really doesn’t concern me too much. I’m thrilled to be writing music and telling stories.
That, to me, is the perfect situation, regardless of where those stories exist. . .in a theater,
in a living room, or on a computer.
ScoreNotes: Besides composing, what are some of your other passions in life?
Christopher Lennertz: First and foremost is my family. I have a wonderful wife and an
adorable baby girl as well as siblings and parents who are all very close. Besides that, I’d
say cooking, sailing, skiing, and since I’m currently training for my first triathlon, let’s
add swimming and cycling as well!
 Keeping Score with
19 Michael Levine

Photo by Abba Roland.

Michael Levine.

M
ichael Levine is an explorative composer who isn’t afraid to take a chance.
It’s this approach that has led him to the success he’s enjoyed, I feel. In the
following interview, Michael discussed a bevy of subjects with me, including
his music for the mega-popular television series Cold Case, his rather diverse and open
musical interests, and how it was that he got his first break in the business, courtesy of a
one Hans Zimmer. . .

Michael Levine (2009)

ScoreNotes: Unlike some shows that feature a perpetual storyline throughout, Cold
Case offers up a stand-alone story—or case, as it were—each week as its focus. Are
you regularly asked to write music that represents the different decades that the show
shifts back and forth from? Also, does a dynamic timeline like that keep things inter-
esting for you on a creative level over the long haul of television series?
Michael Levine: Actually, I rarely write period music per se. The period is usually
evoked by the licensed songs that are used in the flashbacks. Often, though, I will allude
to the period through an instrumental color or harmonic idea. And, yes, that’s part of

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130 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

the fun. The challenge is to make it still feel like it belongs in the Cold Case sonic
vocabulary.
ScoreNotes: What was the overall tone that you were looking to establish for the series
when you first started scoring the early episodes?
Michael Levine: Cold Case differs from other “procedural” shows in that the story is
not as much about the mechanics of solving the case but about learning the victim’s
story and how they were important to the people around them. So, the tone is more
emotional than similar shows. [Executive producer] Jonathan Littman once said,
“I write an opera every week. But the emotion is rarely explicit, instead lurking just
below the surface.”
ScoreNotes: Which episodes do you feel showcase some of the best examples of your
work from the series?
Michael Levine: Hmm, six seasons—that’s tough. But some of the standouts include Our
Boy Is Back, which includes “Carl’s Recollection,” the favorite of Cold Case creator
Meredith Stiehm; Saving Sammy, for which I created music that serves as an analogy
to the central character’s autism; Beautiful Little Fool, an episode about a songwriter
for which I wrote songs with episode writer Liz Garcia; The Letter, one of the most
romantic scores of the series; and The Good Death, just because I think it’s a good tune.
ScoreNotes: How does the collaboration with the show’s directors typically work for you?
I imagine the spotting process is quite different and faster paced than that of film sessions!
Michael Levine: TV is a producer’s medium more than a director’s. There’s no time to
spot with anyone other than the post-production team. The editor’s choices for temping
[placeholder music] are invaluable. As soon as I can, I submit cues for approval from the
show runners [executive producers].
ScoreNotes: Can you comment on the rather enthusiastic fan base that has developed
for Cold Case as well as some of the feedback you have received from viewers?
Michael Levine: The fans are an inspiration in good times and a life-saving spirit boost
when things aren’t going well.
ScoreNotes: How gratifying was it to have received the multiple ASCAP awards for
your work on the show? Can you share your sentiments about the honor?
Michael Levine: What I love best about the ASCAP awards is that it gives me a chance
to mingle with my idols. You have to realize that I started out as a fan, and I still am
one. But when you get an award, you’re a fan with access!
 Cha pt e r 19 Keeping Score w i t h M i c ha e l L e v i ne 131

ScoreNotes: Now moving off of Cold Case, I’d like to ask some questions about your
musical style. First, how vital is it for you to remain open-minded as a composer?
Michael Levine: I have about as eclectic listening habits as anyone I know. My iPod
contains pop, rock, rap, jazz, classical, world, avant-garde, spoken word, and even
some film music. It’s always set on shuffle. Where I live in Topanga Canyon, AM
radio is a lot more reliable than FM. And AM is stranger than FM. I might listen to
the American Songbook, Persian pop, and Norteño all on the way into work.
All of these things influence my musical style, but I hope my voice is distinct no matter
what the context.
ScoreNotes: Spanning all the projects you’ve worked on, can you describe some of the
innovative techniques that you’ve employed during your career that readers might find
interesting?
Michael Levine: I am immodestly proud of the chances I’ve taken with concert music.
I wrote the world’s first pedal steel guitar concerto; composed a piece for musical saw
and strings in which the strings were divided into one group tuned ¼ step sharp and the
other tuned to true pitch; and wrote an electric string quartet that borrowed from my
rock ‘n’ roll experiences, incorporating distortion and ring modulation. I also wrote the
book, lyrics, song, and score for Orpheus Electronica, which was, possibly, the first
“rave opera.”
ScoreNotes: What would you say is the most exotic combination of sound effects and
musical instruments that you’ve brought together for a piece?
Michael Levine: Orpheus included highly manipulated samples, sound design, strings,
vocals, and spoken word over an electronica bed. An early commercial I did for Mitsu-
bishi Eclipse included animal cries, world drums, and an opera singer—rule-breaking in
1989, and much copied after.
ScoreNotes: As far as your early days, is it true that you wrote the jingle for several
TV commercials, including the catchy Kit Kat spot? If so, did any particular
jingle ever become too popular for your tastes, or do you remember it all in good fun
now?
Michael Levine: At one point, I was vaguely embarrassed that, after a degree from music
school, pieces performed at Lincoln Center, commissions from dance companies,
playing on dozens of records, and appearing on MTV, my best-known contribution
to Western culture was a 30-second encomium to a quadra-furcated candy bar. But
now I’m happy that anyone remembers anything I do.
132 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

ScoreNotes: How important was it to get your start by working on television commer-
cials? I assume it opened up a few opportunities for you?
Michael Levine: It gave me invaluable musical, production, and business training. But
most of the opportunities that writing for commercials opened up were to write for
more commercials.
ScoreNotes: What would you say was the key moment in your career that cemented
your transition to television and film?
Michael Levine: An agent once told me I was unhireable because my reel was weird, and
even worse, it didn’t sound like film music. The following day I gave that unlistenable
CD to Hans Zimmer who left me a message the next day, which went, “Michael, I just
listened to your reel and it’s incredible. Most people, I tell them their stuff is [crap], but
yours is incredible. Here’s my home phone number—if you give it out, I’ll have to kill
you.” He has definitely wanted to kill me more than once since, but he has been an
awesomely generous help to me countless times.
ScoreNotes: With regards to movies, can you touch on some of the film projects that
you’ve worked on and some of the composers you have worked with?
Michael Levine: Misconceptions, Columbus Day, and Adrift in Manhattan are indepen-
dent films I’ve scored in the past two years. I also helped out Hans Zimmer with The
Simpsons Movie and Hans [Zimmer] and James Newton Howard with Batman: Dark
Knight. Other composers I’ve aided and abetted include Rupert Gregson Williams,
Harry Gregson Williams, and Cliff Martinez.
ScoreNotes: Looking at your current and future portfolio, can you tell us about some of
the other television shows or projects that you have going on through 2009 and into
2010?
Michael Levine: Cold Case will be back for a seventh season. I will probably continue to
contribute to the next album of [Nickelodeon/Columbia artists] The Naked Brothers in
some capacity, although probably not as involved as I was in producing their first two
albums. I hope to score a movie or two and will probably do bits and pieces of work for
Hans. I also have a slew of art music projects I am eager to do as time permits.
ScoreNotes: In your opinion, where do you think the future of television music is
headed? And is it headed in the right direction?
Michael Levine: TV and the Web appear to be becoming one thing. Is that good or bad?
Probably a bit of both.
 Keeping Score with
20 Nathan Barr

Used by permission.

Nathan Barr.

W
hen it comes to choice scoring opportunities, you’d have to say that HBO
provides composers some neat chances. Case in point: the (relatively) new
series True Blood, which is quickly becoming a widespread hit on the cable
network. This modern-day vampire tale offers the type of intelligent writing and
dramatic twists that fans of HBO entertainment have come to expect from its
programming.
Onboard to write the music for the show is Nathan Barr, an accomplished and gifted
composer who is literally hands-on when it comes to his work (he often plays his own
instruments). Having worked on True Blood for two seasons now, Nathan was kind
enough to tell us what goes into the musical score for a show about vampires coexisting
with humans in modern-day Louisiana. . .

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134 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

Nathan Barr (2009)

ScoreNotes: To begin with, how fulfilling has it been for you to work on a series like
HBO’s True Blood?
Nathan Barr: True Blood is one of the most, if not the most, fulfilling projects I have
worked on in my ten years in the business. For one thing, everyone involved in the pro-
duction is a pleasure to work with. Alan Ball is very involved in the musical process
every step of the way, and one of the aspects of working with him that has been so
gratifying is the way he has allowed me to explore the musical world of True Blood
without too many rules. With this kind of trust, it has really inspired me to do some of
my best work to date. There are so many eclectic characters that are beautifully por-
trayed by the actors, which means thematically I have a lot to work with. The tremen-
dous success of the show is also exciting, as it means all the work we do is being listened
to, watched, and appreciated by many.
ScoreNotes: When you were first introduced to the show’s Gothic premise, how inter-
esting and different did you find the overall concept to be?
Nathan Barr: My introduction to the show was screening the pilot in preparation for a
meeting with Alan and his creative team. I remember thinking how polished and cine-
matic the pilot looked. I was also impressed at how the show approached the age-old
legend of vampires with a fresh eye—no easy task! Learning that Bill was over a century
old, that Sookie was a mind reader, and that the story was based in the South immedi-
ately excited me because of the musical possibilities. It’s an excitement that I still carry
with me as I approach the finish of Season 2.
ScoreNotes: How would you describe the general style of music from the show, and
what are some of the various instruments you use to deliver it?
Nathan Barr: I would describe the score as very organic, very acoustic, with a strong
emphasis on cello, guitar, and piano. These three instruments are the heart of the score.
At times the score is Appalachian, at times folksy, at times hymn-like, and at times
modern-classical with the various string effects. I think it has a very unique sound as
far as composition for television is concerned, and I am very proud of this.
ScoreNotes: Does the timeline of working on an HBO series differ from that of a typical
television production?
Nathan Barr: Thankfully, working on an HBO show is rather relaxed in terms of sched-
ule when compared to that of network television. The least amount of time I have ever
had to turn a show around is one week, and the most amount of time is closer to a month.
I’ve never had more than 35 minutes in a single episode, and in a couple of episodes,
I’ve had only 10 to 12 minutes of score.
 C h ap t e r 2 0 Keeping Score w i t h N a th a n B a r r 135

ScoreNotes: Overall, what would you say are some of the key elements that have made
True Blood a success with viewers thus far?
Nathan Barr: A great show all starts with the writing. Alan is a brilliant writer and has
hired a team of brilliant writers to help bring Charlaine Harris’s incredible world to the
small screen. The show is particularly effective with its use of cliff-hangers, surprise
twists, and the complex emotional journeys of all of the characters. I also think there
is at least one character that everyone can relate to in one way or another, and so audi-
ences become emotionally invested in the story and that particular character’s journey.
Add blood and sex and the supernatural to these strengths, and you have a very potent
mix of elements to entice audiences.
ScoreNotes: How involved does the series creator, Alan Ball, become with the music
you develop?
Nathan Barr: Alan is very involved with all the music in the show. He encourages his
team of writers to pick out songs while they are writing to help them set the tone of the
episode. In terms of score, Alan and I meet and go through every cue in every episode a
couple of days before each dub. He has an excellent understanding of how score enhan-
ces picture, and his comments are always driven by the story—making sure the score is
doing everything it can for each character’ moment in the show.
ScoreNotes: After taking a look at your background, I see that you were exposed to
many diverse cultures, musical styles, and instruments as a youth. As a composer
today, what are some of the methods you employ to stay innovative in your craft?
Nathan Barr: For me, one of the methods that keeps things fresh is to add new instru-
ments to my collection on a regular basis. Before I started True Blood, I added a bowed
electric guitar and an upright piano, sawed in two, to my collection. The addition of
these two instruments to my collection guaranteed that there would be textural elements
in this score that I had never worked with before, thus sounding fresh. Speaking from a
melodic standpoint, I really rely on the strength of the story and its characters to inspire
strong melodic components from me. In the case of True Blood, I have composed some
melodies—particularly that of Bill and Sookie—of which I am very proud. Coming up
with that melody in particular was fairly effortless because the writing and acting are so
strong.
ScoreNotes: In your opinion, how open is the movie and television industry to the use of
unique instruments and “out of the box” approaches?
Nathan Barr: It depends entirely on who holds the creative reins for the project. With
someone like Alan Ball, if it works, he doesn’t second-guess it. It could be bagpipes and
pipe organ, and if it’s doing what it’s supposed to be doing for the scene, then we’re
136 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

good to go. More generally speaking, so long as the instrument doesn’t sound too out of
place for the world of the movie or television show, then I find people are open to it. If,
for example, a movie takes place in present-day Manhattan, having instruments that
evoke a strong Middle Eastern flavor would be out of place unless our story has Middle
Eastern elements in it that we are trying to accentuate.
ScoreNotes: Might you please update us on how your movie projects are proceeding?
Are there any upcoming projects you can mention at this time?
Nathan Barr: I am starting on two film projects as soon as I finish up Season 2 of True
Blood. One is a horror film called Cotton, produced by Eli Roth, whom I love working
with in any capacity. The other is a dramedy by a director I have worked with before
named Barry Blaustein and starring Rainn Wilson, Sarah Silverman, Michael C. Hall,
among others. Both are projects I am looking forward to.
ScoreNotes: As we wrap up here, who would you say has been the biggest creative
inspiration(s) in your life?
Nathan Barr: There are so many it is hard to point out just one. But the music of Bach
and Richard Strauss certainly inspire me on a daily basis.
 Keeping Score with
21 Bear McCreary

Photo by Andrew Craig.

Bear McCreary.

T
he innovative approach of Bear McCreary is something to behold. His
imaginative approach to scoring the modern Battlestar Galactica series offers
a type of science fiction soundtrack experience unlike any I’ve heard before
for a television series. While there are times when unique, experimental visions fall
short, McCreary’s output is rare in that it succeeded in establishing a completely unique
style while also delivering music that is a pleasure to listen to both within the show and
on its own—a success on all levels.
The following interview was conducted soon after Battlestar Galactica concluded its
run on the SyFy Channel. In the piece, Bear shares his engaging perspectives on what
it took to bring the music of Galactica to fruition. . .

137
138 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

Bear McCreary (2009)

ScoreNotes: As you look back at the work you’ve done on Battlestar Galactica, how
proud are you of the success that the show has achieved?
Bear McCreary: I’m extremely proud of the work that all of us have done on the show.
But I can’t say I’m extraordinarily surprised. I knew when I saw the very first episode
that I was involved with something very special, and my instincts proved correct.
ScoreNotes: Can you talk about how your work on the show has helped you grow as a
composer?
Bear McCreary: It’s had a huge impact on me creatively and artistically. One of the first
things I learned was how to work on a small budget, even though that’s not really the
case anymore. The initial seasons of Battlestar were relatively low budget, and in fact,
even the last season was still on a much smaller budget than any kind of network show
(like Lost or Criminal Minds, for example). And so I originally had a very small group
of musicians at my disposal. Other composers in my position would have probably
opted to hire no musicians at all and actually make some money. But instead, I tried
to create a big sound with a handful of people, and I learned to use them effectively and
efficiently.
I decided we shouldn’t emulate a big orchestral sound. This was an important decision
at the time that was not made just by me, but also the producers involved who didn’t
want to go through the old Star Trek and Star Wars musical gestures. So we ended up
doing something a little different, and it was both inspired creatively and financially. As
the show has gone on, budgets have gotten bigger, and we started using orchestra, but
I still kept the core lessons I learned in doing the show with just a handful of musicians.
And it’s forever changed the way I think about music and the use of soloists and the use
of a very small ensemble to create very big, powerful sounds. Ironically, it’s made me a
better composer of larger-scale music by working on a small scale for so long.
ScoreNotes: Sometimes we need to take a smaller approach before the larger ones
open up.
Bear McCreary: Absolutely! If I had been given a huge budget from the beginning of
Battlestar Galactica, it wouldn’t sound the way it does now. My approach back then
would have been very different. I’ve learned a lot, and I’m very grateful for the way it
worked out. I feel that I made the best out of each season and created a sound that is
very unique.
ScoreNotes: I suppose that you and the production team knew very early on that the
score would be influential in defining the tone of the show?
 Chapter 21 Keeping Score wi th Bear McCreary 139

Bear McCreary: One of the interesting things is that the score was the most different
part of the [new] show from the old show. And this goes back to the work that Richard
Gibbs did on the mini-series—which I was involved in as a composer, but I was not the
composer. Richard started off with this really minimal sound that was very different
from the orchestral bombast of Star Trek and Star Wars, which is the language in
which Stu Philips wrote his excellent score for the classic show. But the ship looked
basically the same. The characters had the same names. A lot of it was recognizably
Battlestar Galactica. There was only one part of it that was entirely different—and
I’m not talking about Starbuck being a woman [laughs]; I’m talking about the music.
Definitely, everyone knew that it would always be an important part in establishing the
tone of the show, the identity of the show, and distancing it from the original, which
was an issue in the beginning.
ScoreNotes: What are some of the unique instruments that you used along the way in
Galactica?
Bear McCreary: The entire score is performed by relatively unique and unusual instru-
ments. One that you’ve heard frequently is the Duduk, which is an Armenian woodwind
instrument that has a very melancholy, dark sound. Another interesting one is the Erhu,
which is like the Chinese violin, or the Chinese cello, as it’s sometimes called. It’s an
instrument that has a very vocal quality; often times it sounds like a soprano singing, but
it’s in fact a string instrument. And there is a lot of interesting percussion. Taiko drums,
frame drums, tabla, chang-changs, dumbeks. Any kind of percussion instrument from
around the world. Those are the main instruments you hear a lot of.
ScoreNotes: I can imagine part of the fun for you is to set out to discover the different
types of instruments that are out there that can help you achieve the sound you’re
looking for?
Bear McCreary: Absolutely. Again, this goes back to my Season 1 experience when we
had a relatively small budget to work with and I couldn’t afford a 50-piece string section
at that time. So instead, I thought I should find some interesting instrumentalists. For
example, I called Chris Bleth because he played Duduk, and I asked him, when I met
him, what else he played. And he brought Bansuris, Shakuhachis, Chinese Membrane
flutes, and all these other things that I had never even heard of. Likewise, I hired Eric
Rigler to play the Uilleann Bagpipes, and those have a very characteristic sound, but
I also asked him what else he played. He brought out the Great Highland Pipes, which
are the big bagpipes you see in parades, and he also plays Irish pennywhistles and a lot
of unusual ethnic instruments that we’ve used from time to time, including the shofar,
conch, and sipsi. It was really an exploratory process for me.
140 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

ScoreNotes: From your perspective as a composer, which episode from the series stands
out as your favorite?
Bear McCreary: From a compositional standpoint, no episode could rival my experience
on Someone to Watch Over Me, which was toward the end of Season 4. The music was
involved with every aspect of the episode. The writers called me before they even wrote
the story. I did extensive interviews with them talking about my musical and creative
process, and that became the character of Slick, who is a struggling composer/pianist
that Kara encounters. I was on set while they were shooting it, writing the music that he
would be playing on the piano. Then I was of course involved in editorial and obviously
ended up scoring the episode as well. So that was an episode that I was involved with
from beginning to end, which had never happened before for me. In fact, I think it’s
extremely rare in television scoring that you would have an episode that deals with
music in that way.
The other thing that’s interesting is that this episode is the one where the score became a
character in and of itself. The music was actually introduced into the world of the char-
acters, which is extremely weird and kind of hard to wrap your brain around. There’s a
theme that the audience of Battlestar Galactica is familiar with because they’ve heard it
in the score for an entire season. And then you have characters in the show that actually
become aware of this music. So it’s like this really weird breaking of the fourth wall.
I would have never guessed from the beginning of the series that we would go into this
bizarre musical territory. But it was extremely rewarding and exciting, and I got to write
some of the best music I’ve ever written for that episode.
ScoreNotes: Very innovative. It’s almost as if the music melds into real time.
Bear McCreary: I’m very honored to be a part of it. I think that the writers, David
Weddle and Bradley Thompson, and the director, Michael Nankin, probably wouldn’t
have chosen to do a story like that if they didn’t know that they had me as a resource.
It was interesting, because I felt like I had a real influence on the story.
ScoreNotes: With Caprica, the series shifts back in time to an earlier point in Galactica
history. Did you have to adjust your approach with the music to reflect this?
Bear McCreary: Yes, the music is extremely different than Battlestar. In fact, there are
very few musical connections, which I think makes the musical connections all the more
powerful because the rest of the score is a very different tone, a very different mood and
language with different instruments playing them.
And I took my cues from the series itself. The show feels very different than Battlestar.
It takes place in a very polished society that is at its decadent and opulent peak. It didn’t
 Chapter 21 Keeping Score wi th Bear McCreary 141

have any of that frantic tribal, primitive conflict that Battlestar had. So the music was
very different but the approach is the same. That’s really the connection, the approach
to scoring long arcs instead of individual characters. I’m writing themes that can be
identified in the pilot and brought back as the series goes on, to be manipulated and
changed. So the thing that’s most interesting to me is that these little threads in the
music that connect us with Battlestar Galactica can become more prominent as the
show goes on. My goal is that, as the series goes on, the score becomes more and
more like Battlestar. So that theoretically speaking, if this show narratively goes all
the way up to the beginning of the Battlestar Galactica mini-series, the Caprica score,
which started out very different, will transform slowly into the Battlestar Galactica
score.
ScoreNotes: In your opinion, and in general terms, is writing music for a “prequel” a bit
more challenging than writing a score for a sequel?
Bear McCreary: It’s challenging in different ways. To follow up any project with
another one that’s related is difficult. And if you think about it, many of my projects
have fallen into that category. For example, Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles
is a sequel of sorts to Terminator 2. My score could inevitably be compared to the
masterful scores that Brad Fiedel did. So I had to find ways of identifying myself and
also recognizing where I was coming from. Battlestar Galactica is a different story
compared to the old show, so I had to do my best to do something completely different
and obliterate all those references. So Caprica was really more like Battlestar where
I wanted it to sound totally different [from its predecessor]. So it did present some
challenges, because I’ve been doing Battlestar a long time, and the show is so similar
that it’s tempting to use a lot of the same techniques, and, really, I’ve had to develop
some new ones.
ScoreNotes: What has the fan reaction been to your work on Battlestar?
Bear McCreary: Fan reaction seems to be positive and passionate. I’ve been continually
amazed at the intelligent discourse that happens at my blog (BearMcCreary.com/blog).
It’s been great to interact with the fans and talk with them and get their opinions. But
most of all, it’s been really rewarding hiding things from them and seeing if they’ll find
it. When I realized how perceptive the audience is, it really did have an impact on what
I wrote. I always put a lot of thought and care into my scores, but I must confess, in
Seasons 3 and 4 of Battlestar, I put in even more, because I realized there’s this audience
out there that was paying attention, and it was more rewarding.
I’ve done a lot of live concerts, and I’ve always been stunned at the audiences that come
out and see the Battlestar Galactica score performed live and how well they know it,
142 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

how much they respond to it, and how much they understand it, both in connection
with the series and separate from the series. Ultimately, I always feel like I am writing
music, and it works well with the series, and I feel like my soundtrack albums work well
as albums. And everything that I’ve seen from the fans would point to the fact that they
agree with that.
ScoreNotes: I really like how you take the music straight to the fans. When did you first
have the idea to do something like that?
Bear McCreary: The first time was with the release of Season 2 on CD. We did a show
in 2006 at a little club here in town called The Mint, the capacity of which is about 120
to 150. It’s like a little jazz club, and we rocked the hell out of it. But that was the first
time that I ever thought doing something like this might be something people would be
interested in. And I must confess, I was amazed that anyone showed up at all!
Then in 2008, we booked The Roxy Theatre in Los Angeles, which holds about 600. It
sold out so quickly we had to open up a second night. And that one sold out so quickly
we ended up turning people away for two weeks. I was astonished at the interest in it!
People flew in from Malaysia, Canada, London, and really all over the world just to see
this music in concert. That’s when I realized there was something really special happen-
ing here. You couldn’t do that with the score to a typical cable television show and have
that kind of response.
ScoreNotes: Do you feel that a theatrical version of Battlestar Galactica is just a matter
of time before it happens?
Bear McCreary: Frankly, I think you have a better chance of the moon crashing into the
planet and killing us all. My answer is twofold—creatively there’s no need for it. The
show is not like Star Trek because it came to a conclusion. But then also logistically, it’s
a complicated franchise. It’s got movie rights tied up with different people than the tele-
vision rights do. I must admit as a fan, I think it would be great, but just having what
little experience I have with the business side of it, my gut instinct is that the rights to the
feature film side of it are infinitely more complex than the television side.
ScoreNotes: I have a feeling that if the rights weren’t such a tricky issue, they would
probably reboot it, even though Galactica, in this incarnation, is a recent series.
Bear McCreary: I think a reboot would happen before any kind of movie with this cast
ever would. Because obviously the story is done; we got to the end of it. You can’t do
Battlestar Galactica: The Next Generation. I feel strongly that Ron Moore and the
other writers/producers really wanted that kind of closure. That’s not to say that
some other producer or developer might not reboot it again. The window between
 Chapter 21 Keeping Score wi th Bear McCreary 143

franchises getting rebooted seems to be getting smaller and smaller these days, so who
knows. I just feel like we collectively, as people having worked on this version of Battle-
star, we’re done. Our version of the story is finished.
ScoreNotes: How fulfilling was the time you spent working on The Sarah Connor
Chronicles?
Bear McCreary: It’s been a dream come true. It’s been a chance for me to play around in
the Terminator universe, which is basically where I grew up. Those first two films were
among my favorite movies and were literally the reasons why I wanted to get involved
with the movie business in the first place. So I leapt at the opportunity to be involved in
the universe. But beyond that, I think that the show was so loyal to the [James]
Cameron films and did all the right things and created these fascinating characters,
beyond the characters that were in Cameron’s movies. I mean that’s what my interest
was in the beginning, as it was with everyone else. But it was the new characters that
really roped me in.
Overall, it was just an incredible experience. I got to write a really lyrical, beautiful
theme that I’m very proud of. The album that we did out of it turned out wonderfully.
It was a great show. I must confess that I am very sad that it is no more.
ScoreNotes: From the fans who were watching it, they seemed to really enjoy it. So it’s a
little confusing why it got eliminated.
Bear McCreary: Well, at the end of the day, there just weren’t enough of them. And
in many ways, Battlestar Galactica has always been an underperforming show by
[SyFy Channel] standards as well. It’s all about expectation. If Battlestar Galactica
had aired on Fox, it would have been cancelled in three weeks. So, it’s funny that
The Sarah Connor Chronicles didn’t survive, even though routinely it got more than
twice as many viewers as Battlestar ever did at its peak. But it’s all about expectations
and network ad revenue. You know, it’s financial decisions made by financial institu-
tions. And it was a great show. I know that we would have just kicked [butt] on
Season 3. Hopefully, one day there will be some chance to continue that.
ScoreNotes: For a franchise like Terminator, how important was it to keep the music
associated with the movies?
Bear McCreary: Well, I think it’s incredibly important to a point. I think the music has
to take its cue from the film itself. And I am not a fan of Terminator 3; I’ve never
pretended otherwise. And I was very happy when I saw the pilot episode of The
Sarah Connor Chronicles—when they were considering hiring me—and how loyal
they had stayed to the tone of Terminator 2. I’m not even talking about the timelines
144 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

or the chronological placement of the story—I just mean the tone of it. The tone of
it was very much in line with Cameron’s films. And I knew the music had to
acknowledge it.
With The Sarah Connor Chronicles, they couldn’t afford to use the Terminator theme
all the time. We only had it on the title card, so I was given the choice to do something
new and totally different or to try to keep it in that same musical universe. I did my best
to make the score feel like it belonged in Terminator 1 and 2. So as a fan of the fran-
chise, I think it matters very much. If you’re talking about doing a big franchise reboot
and want to go a different direction, it becomes a different scenario.
ScoreNotes: I find it interesting and a bit worrisome about the manner in which all these
reboots are coming to pass.
Bear McCreary: The franchises themselves are evolving in such ways that you realize
they are becoming myths and legends. Every generation has a version of it that means
something to them. They’ll just probably continue to be remade, and that’s good
because there’s a new generation of kids that are discovering the movies that I loved
when I was a kid. I’m happy if some kid goes and discovers Terminator 1 or 2 because
they saw the PG-13 Terminator 4. I think that’s great. But at the end of the day, you
wonder if we do this for 30 or 40 years, who’s going to be making anything new?
Obviously, that’s the extreme end of the argument, but you do wonder.
Bonus Interview

This interview, included as a bonus segment, features the composers of the

new and classic Battlestar Galactica in one compilation. While the styles
of the two series differ, it’s interesting to see how the torch was passed
from one composer to the next.
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 Keeping Score with
22 Stu Phillips

Used by permission.

Stu Phillips.

A
s a youngster who had yet to realize that film and television scores could
function apart from the screen, Stu Phillips’s work really fueled my imagination
when I was growing up. To me, he belongs in a hall of fame for composers, if
such a place existed. He is responsible for some of the most popular themes in the
history of television, including the original Battlestar Galactica, Buck Rogers, Knight
Rider, and many others. His work entertained me then, and it still does now.
I am happy to present this nostalgic and rather candid segment with one of the most
popular composers the small screen ever had the pleasure of hosting…

147
148 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

Stu Phillips (2007)

ScoreNotes: Looking back on your career in television, can you share with us your most
rewarding contributions from the variety of projects you’ve worked on?
Stu Phillips: Boy, it goes back a long time. Actually, my television career goes all the way
back to when I did some specials in New York City for ABC. It went from there to the
Donna Reed television show for about three years and the Monkees on into McCloud
and Quincy and Switch and the Hardy Boys, Galactica, Buck Rogers, Knight Rider, and
the Fall Guy. My career in feature films is a little less than that, but the picture which
I guess I am most identified with at this point is Beyond the Valley of the Dolls, which
has become some sort of a cult favorite.
ScoreNotes: Well, the interesting thing about your work is that a lot of your television
themes played like music you would hear in the movies.
Stu Phillips: Yeah, I mean the obvious ones would be Galactica, which was like a feature
film every week…a short feature film. And it was a classically-oriented score. Buck
Rogers, a little different. It wasn’t in the same vein…a little more pop music. Knight
Rider, oh I don’t know what you’d call that. It was one of the first of the electronic
scores on television. It preceded Miami Vice and a few other shows that were geared
that way.
ScoreNotes: And I guess it had to be an electronic score because you had a talking car.
Stu Phillips: Well, actually, the theme was electronic. The early scores were basically
orchestral with just a little bit of electronics on them. They didn’t really want to go that
wholeheartedly, synth-wise. Then when I left the show and went over to 20th to do Fall
Guy, another composer came in with another producer…another whole new crew of
people, and they decided they wanted to do more in the electronic vein. So the following
years that the show was on the air, it was more electronic than when I did it.
ScoreNotes: Now, that must have been interesting back then, comparatively speaking,
with the electronic resources that we have now as compared to then.
Stu Phillips: Oh yeah. I mean we were in the early days. Actually, my use of electronics,
which I did at the last seminar, was a picture I did in 1968 with the original Moog
synthesizer that Paul Beaver had, which was about 15 to 20 feet wide, about 8 feet
high, and it was just a whole bunch of bays with patch cords going in. I brought a
picture of it [to the seminar] to show to the people there, and they were really amazed
because they had never seen something that big that is now the size of a keyboard.
ScoreNotes: [Laughing] Sounds like the size of NASA’s first computer.
 Chapter 22 Keeping Score with Stu Phi llips 149

Stu Phillips: Yes…well, NASA had all those backup reels spinning and everything else
for memory. This didn’t have any memory. Basically, Paul Beaver just played it, and
that was it. There was no memory involved. But it was quite something. It was very
unusual. I experimented a lot in the ’60s with some of the electronic things that
were available in those days. I feel like I’m a bit of a pioneer—not a lot; there were
other people doing it as well, but I enjoyed that part of it. It was interesting. I can’t
say that I’m a great lover of the electronic music sound, but I used it all through my
career…whenever it was necessary and it made sense.
ScoreNotes: Sure, and with a lot of your opportunities regarding science fiction, the
setting is in the future, so it kind of goes hand in hand I suppose…the fitting of the
electronics.
Stu Phillips: Yeah, it’s kind of a natural thing. It just seemed to work with that genre of
film. Nobody knows what music would sound like if we were in the year 4000 or 3000.
There’s no way of knowing, so it’s certainly a sound that works for the genre. However,
it lacks the emotional content of an orchestra, which is why your more successful
science fiction [projects] have been orchestral, like Star Wars, Star Trek, Galactica.
ScoreNotes: Right, and I was going to ask you your opinion on the music of the new
show. The new show is a success, but I’d be curious as to what your opinion is of the
musical soundtrack.
Stu Phillips: Well, I don’t like to give opinions of fellow composers, and Bear McCreary
is a very lovely man, and we’re good friends. Actually, in one of the episodes, he and the
producers decided to use the old Galactica theme. I was kind of worried. He called me
up and said, “Oh Stu, we’re going to use the old Galactica theme.” I kind of shuddered
a bit and wanted to know what part. He said, “Oh, I’m not fooling around. I’d like to
come over to your house and look at the scores. I want to sit with you for an hour, talk
about it.” He said he didn’t want to do it an injustice. That is very nice for a composer
to do that, especially when he’s coming over to somebody who did the original. And he
did come over here, and we spent quite a long time together. He did a magnificent
arrangement of it, which they did use in the show. I’ll just say this. He’s a very nice
man. He does a wonderful job with what he’s doing. I’m not a big fan of the show,
though. So we’ll put it that way, okay?
ScoreNotes: Surely. If we could just talk about the show itself—what specifically doesn’t
work for you?
Stu Phillips: I can’t buy half the cast in business suits and a tie and the other half of the
cast in some kind of space outfit. It just doesn’t work for me. I don’t know exactly what
150 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Televisi on Composers

it is that they are trying to say, if they’re trying to say anything. If it’s supposed to be a
comparison [to modern events of] today, I don’t really know that [it’s working]. A few
of those things kind of disturb me. I’m not sure what their direction is or what they’re
doing, whereas in the original Galactica, you knew what they were doing. It was simply
a fairy tale, a western in space…it was a space opera. They made no bones about what it
was meant to be. There were a few things in it that tried to make comparisons between
[current events of the time], but it wasn’t as politically oriented as the one is now. I am
not a big fan of the show at this particular point. But it’s a good show.
ScoreNotes: Yes, the production value is great. What gets me personally is something as
simple as shaky camera movement. It seems that everything is filmed with a hand-held
these days.
Stu Phillips: I don’t know. I haven’t been up to Vancouver. I don’t know how they are
doing it. A couple of episodes that I did watch…it doesn’t knock me out. And that’s
about as far as I’ll go. But I do want to comment and say that the [Bear] is just a lovely
man and a good composer. He does what he’s been instructed to do by the producers
and director, as I have been through most of my career. You very rarely get the oppor-
tunity to just go out on your own and have no one direct you in what they want to hear
from you. So, he’s in the same boat as I was in. We do what we’re told and make a
living.
ScoreNotes: Sure, at the mercy of the director and producers.
Stu Phillips: Yeah, pretty much.
ScoreNotes: Now in your opinion, why do you think television itself has shied away
from the type of thematic music that worked so well in the ’70s and the ’80s? Is it
because the world has evolved and TV has evolved with it?
Stu Phillips: I think limiting it just to television is not right. Film and television have
gotten away from a lot of content. The only thing that I can see is that it appears as
though producers and directors, or let’s just call them filmmakers nowadays, whether it
be television or theatrical film, seem to feel that melody is corny. That having a love
theme with a sweeping feeling during a love scene is extremely corny, and they don’t
think that they want to have that. However, basically your average moviegoer and
television watcher is corny [laughs].
ScoreNotes: That’s why we’re tuned in!
Stu Phillips: Yeah, your audience is basically that way. Why they want to avoid it,
I don’t know. It seems to be an intellectual approach now. Everybody feels like, we
 Chapter 22 Keeping Score with Stu Phi llips 151

just don’t want to hit anything on the head. We don’t want to be obvious about it.
At times, it’s fine. A lot of composers all the way back to the ’30s and ’40s also occa-
sionally would treat scenes—maybe not whole movies, but scenes—where they would
not hit it on the head so that it would have a vague quality about it emotionally…let the
audience feel it. But other times when it was necessary, hey, let’s go…let’s hit it! Now, it
seems that people want to hold back on it. I feel personally that the scores don’t have
continuity anymore in some of the major films. They’re just a slap dash of an hour and
twenty minutes worth of music, but there’s no continuity because there’s no theme to
draw from. Fortunately on Galactica, I had a producer who liked thematic music.
Everybody had to have a theme! I wrote the main title so that there were almost six
different elements of the theme that I could pull out of it at any given time to do some-
thing in the scene. But that doesn’t seem to be what they’re looking for now.
ScoreNotes: Hopefully, those days will return.
Stu Phillips: I certainly hope so too.
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 PART
Interviews with Today’s Top
Videogame Composers III

No longer a side note, the scores from today’s videogames are as

prominent and well made (in many cases) as the film soundtracks of
modern cinema. As soundtrack enthusiasts around the world are discover-
ing, music from games is no longer simply just an alternative; it’s a down-
right viable, creatively rich option for grand, dramatic, and colorful music.
In the following chapters, you’ll have a chance to meet some of the award-
winning composers in this field as they share their experiences about
writing innovative music in a technically complex medium.
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 Keeping Score with
23 Marty O’Donnell

Used by permission.
Marty O’Donnell.

W
hen the conversation is about videogame music, Marty O’Donnell
deservedly takes his place near the head of the discussion. O’Donnell,
along with co-composer Michael Salvatori, helped shape the musical identity
of the medium’s more popular franchises with their work on Halo. The signature sound
created for Halo is, in my opinion, one of the more recognizable themes ever created in
modern gaming and was often featured on the front lines wherever the title was
promoted. Oddly enough, I never played Halo at any point in my life, but after
experiencing the soundtracks for each installment, I somehow felt like I had. That is
a testament to the writing talents of O’Donnell and Salvatori (and Stephen Rippy for
Halo Wars).
In this interview, Marty takes us into the world of Halo by discussing the rather
interesting blend of thematic inspirations that fueled the score. . .

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156 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Videogame Composers

Marty O’Donnell (2009)

ScoreNotes: At what point, do you feel, did the use of orchestral game music first
become a serious consideration for game developers?
Marty O’Donnell: I believe that the first game developer to use music in a truly serious
way was Cyan in 1993. Robyn Miller, the composer for the game Myst, used a film
scoring approach rather than the traditional game scoring approach that was common
at the time. He used recordings of oboe, strings, and orchestral percussion samples to
score the mood of the game rather than real-time midi. The interesting thing for me was
that his score wasn’t limited to the cinematics but was also used during gameplay.
Instead of a simple bed of music that looped non-stop during a level, the music came
and went based on location or to enhance some task that the player had chosen to
perform. When I played Myst, I felt that music in games had come of age, and I was
intrigued enough to try composing for them.
ScoreNotes: Can you provide an overview of what your current responsibilities are at
your studio, Bungie?
Marty O’Donnell: I’m the Audio Director/Composer for Bungie. Anything and every-
thing that emanates from the speakers of all Bungie games gets my attention. I work
with the designers, artists, and engineers from the beginning of every project to help
cast the audio vision for every game. Then I, along with Jay Weinland (Bungie’s
Audio Lead), C Paul Johnson (Bungie’s Senior Audio Designer), and Mike Salvatori
(my long-time writing partner at TotalAudio), produce the audio. I’ve also used many
outside musicians, actors, engineers, and other talented people over the years to
accomplish that task.
ScoreNotes: Might you please describe some of the inspirations that led you more
toward this field of composing?
Marty O’Donnell: I started as a piano performance major but switched to composition
because I wanted to write original music for a prog-rock band I was in during my
conservatory days in the late ’70s. I received my Masters in Music Composition from
USC in the early ’80s, and while there I took a composition for film class with David
Raksin. After that I started a company in Chicago with Mike Salvatori mainly writing
music for commercials and film. I always enjoyed playing games, but after hearing and
playing the game Myst, I got in contact with Cyan and was hired to produce the audio
for Riven, the sequel to Myst. I love the music of Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Debussy,
Barber, and Vaughan Williams; the film scores of Jerry Goldsmith and Thomas
Newman; and the bands Jethro Tull, Gentle Giant, Led Zeppelin, and Yes. Besides
Robyn’s work on Myst, I also was attracted by the work Nobuo Uematsu did with
 Ch ap t er 23 Keeping Score w i th M ar t y O ’ D o nn e l l 157

the Final Fantasy series. The most important element that attracts me to composing for
games is the interactive, adaptive nature of the music’s performance. The music plays
back differently almost every time you play any one of the Halo series. It’s designed to
adjust to each player’s choices as much as possible.
ScoreNotes: Can you talk a little bit about the types of themes that were written for the
Halo series, and specifically, some of the inspirations behind them?
Marty O’Donnell: In 1999, when we first started talking about music for the Halo
series, the three words that stuck with me were ancient, alien, and epic. I was hoping
to write a single piece of music that might capture those feelings for the listener. My first
instinct was to use the sound of monk chanting to evoke “ancient” and decided to get
that right up at the beginning. The musical feeling for “alien” comes from some of the
creepier sounding musical effects and also the Qawwali style voice that sings in the
middle sections. It might not sound alien to people from the Middle East, but for
most westerners, it seems to work. I got the “epic” part by using orchestral strings
and percussion and a driving, exciting rhythm. There are lots of other themes through-
out the Halo games that are inspired by the emotional content of the story. I used full
orchestra, synths, solo instruments, piano, harp, choir—whatever it took to communi-
cate the right emotions.
ScoreNotes: At what point during the game development process does the composer
usually get involved? For example, when did you first get underway with the develop-
ment of the music for Halo?
Marty O’Donnell: I prefer to be in right at the beginning if possible. With Halo, I was
already at Bungie finishing up Myth 2 when the first concepts for Halo started coming
together. I began working on the sound design for the game and then soon afterwards
got some early musical ideas into the mix. I was able to record live orchestra and singers
for the MacWorld 1999 unveiling of Halo, which was almost two years before we
released the game on Xbox. The earlier a composer is exposed to the story, look, and
feel of a game, the better.
ScoreNotes: How satisfying is it to see the music from Halo be recognized so positively
in both the gaming community and in the general soundtrack world?
Marty O’Donnell: Halo seemed to fall just at the right time and the right place. None of
us thought it would become as popular as it has, and I’m personally thrilled to see so
many people taking notice of the score. I’ve always believed that a good game score
should have the same chance to be accepted as legitimate music as any other medium
for which music has been composed. It still represents “functional” music as opposed to
purely “art” music, but that’s a distinction I don’t care all that much about.
158 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Videogame Composers

ScoreNotes: How much further do you think game music has to go before it is embraced
at the same level as film soundtracks? Is it simply more about awareness than anything
else?
Marty O’Donnell: I think that fans have already embraced game music, so we just have
to wait for the rest of the public to catch up. A lot of the folks who determine categories
for the Grammys or other music awards aren’t necessarily gamers, and so they just
haven’t been exposed to the kind of music that has been composed for this medium
yet. I think that is changing, and we’ll see how it goes over the next decade or so.
ScoreNotes: Hypothetically, do you think that writing a score for a Halo movie would
be an enticing opportunity? Also, how well do you think the game could translate to
film?
Marty O’Donnell: I would love the opportunity to score a Halo movie. I also believe
that a great movie (or more than one) could come out of the Halo universe. Whether or
not that will ever happen or anyone would ask me to be involved are decisions out of my
control.
ScoreNotes: I am a big supporter of music being applied to any and all works of art. Do
you feel that there can be room in the entertainment universe for book scores (music
“inspired by the novel”), or is that concept a bit too far-fetched?
Marty O’Donnell: Programmatic music has been around for a long time; there’s nothing
far-fetched about it. Just about all the great composers have done something like that at
some point in their careers. It might be cool to have interactive music along with the
Kindle. Hmm, I should call someone about that.
ScoreNotes: As you look ahead, what has you most enthused about the future of game
music?
Marty O’Donnell: I think the future is bright for game music. Better technology, better
composers, better music is happening each new year. Games are a great place to be
creative.
 Keeping Score with
24 Winifred Phillips

Used by permission.

Winifred Phillips.

E
ver since she emerged on the scene, Winifred Phillips has entertained gamers and
soundtrack enthusiasts alike with the keen, insightful music that she composes.
Truly a unique “voice” in the game music arena, Winifred’s talent shines through
with each of the scores she develops, often contributing an intuitive component that
enhances the gaming experience.
In this Q & A, she enlightens us about her background in the arts, talks about some of
her notable scores, and tells us what it’s like to be one of the few female composers in a
male dominated industry. . .

Winifred Phillips (2009)

ScoreNotes: Might you please tell us about your musical background and what some of
the key drivers were that led you into composing?
Winifred Phillips: Music has always been a huge part of my life. I’m classically trained
across a range of musical disciplines, from instrumental and vocal performance to

159
160 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Videogame Composers

composition and theory; and from a young age, I’d dreamed of being a composer.
Writing music for videogames didn’t occur to me right away, though. I got my start
as the sole composer for a drama series on National Public Radio called Radio Tales.
The series presented fantasy, horror, and sci-fi dramas based on world-famous works
like Beowulf, The Pit and the Pendulum, and War of the Worlds. Each drama required
non-stop music, so the experience served as a great training ground. The series ran on
NPR for about six years; then it moved to Sirius XM Satellite Radio, where it still airs
every week. I was with the series until 2002, and then I switched gears and began to
pursue a career as a videogame composer.
ScoreNotes: What is it about writing music for videogames that first triggered your
curiosity?
Winifred Phillips: I remember the first time a piece of videogame music grabbed my
attention—it was really startling. For most of Final Fantasy VII, the music presents
the usual synthetic texture that we’re all used to. Then, during the final boss battle
with Sephiroth, suddenly a live choir breaks through. I remember how immensely sur-
prised I was, and how enormously important that last battle felt with the choir singing
the villain’s name. My heart leapt into my throat, I forgot to breathe, I played that boss
battle like my life depended on it. . .. I felt like I was going to have a heart attack! I think
the worldwide popularity of that song, One Winged Angel by Nobuo Uematsu, is a
testament to the shared experience that we all had playing that boss battle and hearing
the expressive force of the full choir urging us on. Years later, when the idea of actually
writing music for videogames occurred to me, I remembered One Winged Angel, and
that memory was a big part of why I actually took the leap into videogame music.
ScoreNotes: Do you find that game music offers the composer a chance to be more
explorative as compared to film or television projects?
Winifred Phillips: I think that videogame music offers the opportunity to experiment in
different ways, within the restrictions of the medium. Videogame music is interactive by
nature, so there are technical and structural considerations that impose limits and strict
requirements on the compositions. That being said, videogame music plays a more
dynamic and integral role in the experience as opposed to the music of film and televi-
sion. It is rare nowadays to encounter a sequence in television or film in which the score
moves center stage. My last memory of such an occurrence was from The Truman
Show, when the music of Philip Glass would suddenly surge forward during the
movie and arrest the audience’s attention in those dramatic moments when Truman
began to realize the truth about his world. But those sorts of moments are a rarity
in modern film and television, whereas in videogames, music serves this function
constantly.
 C ha p t e r 2 4 Keeping Score with Winifred Phi llips 161

In writing the musical score for The Da Vinci Code video game, I was able to create
vocal motets in a liturgical style for puzzle sequences, action tracks with bombastic
orchestral flourishes mixed with contemporary rhythms, and a cinematic underscore
that was nearly operatic in nature. This music occupies much more of the gamer’s atten-
tion, because it serves to keep the gamer immersed in the world of the game, while still
solving a puzzle or navigating an action sequence to its successful conclusion. Video-
games offer many more opportunities to create ambitious music, and I have found this
to be very inspiring.
ScoreNotes: How long have you been collaborating with music producer Winnie
Waldron, and what are some of the reasons why you two make such a good team?
Winifred Phillips: We started working together at National Public Radio on the
Radio Tales series. We both continued with the series when it transitioned to
Sirius XM Radio, and when I jumped ship and plunged into the videogame field, she
jumped with me. Winnie Waldron has a multitude of amazing talents. In addition to
producing my music for Radio Tales, she was also script editor for that series, so she
has a thorough understanding of what makes a good story. In our videogame work,
she constantly stresses that the music must serve the best interests of the story and
fuel its momentum. Winnie and I have a very close working relationship, and she is
frequently present while I’m composing. Her guidance and feedback are invaluable to
me. In the tradition of the best music producers in the field, Winnie has an instinctive
and profound understanding of what the listening audience will enjoy, and what
will turn them off. Working with Winnie has been and continues to be one of the
most satisfying collaborations I’ve ever experienced. I can’t imagine ever working with-
out her.
ScoreNotes: When you write scores for videogames based on movies, are you typically
asked to account for the style of music heard within the film itself? Or are you generally
given a good bit of breathing room to develop a stand-alone score?
Winifred Phillips: It has been my experience that the style of the upcoming film’s score is
a complete mystery to the developers, which means that I’m given freedom to create
music for the game in a style that makes sense to me. It is my understanding that,
while the developers would like to incorporate the musical style of the film into the
game, it isn’t possible in the majority of cases. For the game to be ready in time to
launch alongside the film, the music composition for the game must begin long before
the film composer has written a single note. I’ve heard that there are some exceptions—
most notably for film sequels in which the musical style of the series has been firmly
established—but I haven’t worked on projects that are part of a series.
162 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Videogame Composers

The most information I’ve ever had about the upcoming film’s score is the identity of the
composer, and that really isn’t much help. For example, I knew that Michael Giacchino
would be creating the music for the Speed Racer film, but his work is quite varied,
which meant that I had no idea what his choices would be like for the film. So
I went ahead and scored the videogame in an eclectic, retro-futuristic style that I thought
would best accentuate the glossy, neon fantasy world that the Wachowski Brothers had
created. When I finally went to the film and heard Giacchino’s score, it couldn’t have
been more different from what I’d done. But it’s perfectly fine for the game score and the
movie score to be different. A game and a movie are unique mediums, so why shouldn’t
their music be unique, too?
My experience was the same for the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory project—I knew
that Danny Elfman would be scoring the film, but his style can be very divergent from
project to project, so I went ahead and scored the game in a way that made sense to me.
And it turned out that my approach was radically different from Elfman’s, so the
experience was much the same for me as it was on Speed Racer, but with one exception.
It turns out that Tim Burton (the director of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory) is an
extremely hands-on director with every aspect of his projects, including the associated
games. He personally approved every track I wrote for Charlie and the Chocolate
Factory. That was a tremendous thrill for me, and even more so when I heard how
different Danny Elfman’s score was from mine. It goes to show that two different
composers can have two very different musical approaches to the same subject matter,
and both can be equally appropriate.
ScoreNotes: Can you touch on the rather innovative approach you took to create the
organic score for SimAnimals?
Winifred Phillips: With the SimAnimals project, I started with the main theme. Arriving
at a style for the theme took some experimentation, and the development team at Elec-
tronic Arts was very helpful during this time. Once the main theme was written, the rest
of the track flowed very naturally from it. The main theme has some post-minimalist
elements in its composition but is also highly dynamic, with a strong emphasis on
melody. SimAnimals is a member of the simulation genre of games, in which many
things are happening at once in a large environment that the gamer can influence but
never completely control. It was my goal that the music should reflect this sense of
simultaneous activity, while still conveying the warmth and the upbeat attitude that
have always characterized games in the Sims franchise.
ScoreNotes: You created a simply wonderful track entitled “Go Mario” on the Game
Music compilation album, Best of the Best. Was that a one-off assignment that you
approached with great enthusiasm? It’s quite a catchy rendition!
 C ha p t e r 2 4 Keeping Score with Winifred Phi llips 163

Winifred Phillips: Thanks very much! I enjoyed working on that track. The assignment
for the album was to create a unique rendition of a classic videogame song, with the
goal of paying tribute to the original piece, while still bringing a fresh approach to the
work. Winnie immediately suggested the theme song from Super Mario Bros. It is such a
part of videogame history and culture, and I was thrilled that she thought of it. I per-
formed a nearly cappella vocal version of the main theme from Super Mario Bros.,
adorned with classic 8-bit style sound effects and kazoos. The whole purpose of the
approach was to convey the fun of the original game. I knew it was a risk to perform
a cover version of a song that was so well loved, so I was very happy that my version of
the song was so well received. I’m glad that you liked it!
ScoreNotes: Staying on the topic of game music—can you please touch on some of the
awards you’ve either won or have been nominated for?
Winifred Phillips: My first project as a videogame composer was God of War. As mem-
bers of the music team for that project, Winnie and I were honored to receive the
Interactive Achievement Award from the Interactive Academy of Arts and Sciences,
four Game Audio Network Guild awards (including Music of the Year), and many
“Best Original Music” awards from sites like GameZone, GameSpot, and IGN. I’ve
also been nominated for a G.A.N.G. Award for the music I wrote for the Shrek the
Third videogame, and I received a nomination from the Hollywood Music Awards
for the music I wrote for the Speed Racer game.
ScoreNotes: Your impact on the videogame music industry has been quite positive (as
the recognition you just mentioned attests to). I feel your work is impressive both within
the context of the games and as stand-alone soundtrack experiences. Do you think this
is a field more female composers may choose to enter based on your success in it?
Winifred Phillips: Thank you very much! I’d certainly like to think that the participation
of women like Winnie and myself may help reduce the gender gap in some small way.
There are significant quality-of-life issues that continue to be a greater hindrance to
women than to men in regards to working in the videogame field, but recent improve-
ments in working conditions may open doors for women to join the industry in greater
numbers. More specifically, however, women are still a very small minority in the field
of music composition for media of any kind, whether it is in films, television, or video-
games. I don’t know exactly why this is, and I suspect that there are many and various
reasons for the current state of gender unbalance. While organizations like the Women
in Games Special Interest Group at the IGDA are helpful for issues regarding the
industry as a whole, I think the barriers for female composers are probably unique.
I’m actually heartened by the story of Marin Alsop, who made history at the Baltimore
Symphony Orchestra in 2007 by taking up the baton as the first female conductor of a
164 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Videogame Composers

major symphony orchestra. I think the image of a woman standing at that highly-visible
conductor’s podium could help the cause of female composers in America by showing a
woman in a position of authority in the world of orchestral music.
ScoreNotes: Aside from composing, what are some other creative interests that you
enjoy being involved with?
Winifred Phillips: When I have free time (which has become a precious rarity), I enjoy
creative writing, specifically in the fantasy genre. I’ve had short stories published in the
Sword and Sorceress XX anthology and in Marion Zimmer Bradley’s Fantasy magazine.
I have a great passion for fantasy and mythology and would love to create music for a
fantasy role-playing videogame in the future.
 Keeping Score with
25 Inon Zur

Used by permission.

Inon Zur.

I
non Zur is a stalwart of the game music industry. His music can be heard in such
popular games as Crysis, the Prince of Persia series, Lineage II: Oath of Blood, and
more!
In the following interview, Inon takes us into the studio of a game composer for a
fascinating discussion about the unique aspect of scoring videogames. As you’ll read
below, writing music for videogames is a world apart from film music and presents a
whole new set of challenges that are foreign to the cinema!
I think you’ll enjoy this conversation with someone I consider to be among the top
composers in this industry. . .

165
166 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Videogame Composers

Inon Zur (2009)

ScoreNotes: When you were first starting out in the composing field, did you ever
anticipate having a career in the videogame arena?
Inon Zur: Definitely, no. We have to remember that most of my musical knowledge as
far as studying was concerned was done between 1980 and 1992; during this time
videogames were mostly electronic sounds. I was really surprised when I was
approached by my agent later in 1996, and he asked if I wanted to compose for
games. He started sending me orchestral scores that were written for the medium,
and I was like, wow, I didn’t know this type of music was needed for games, and if
this is the deal, then why not.
ScoreNotes: What were some of factors that lured you into game music?
Inon Zur: When a composer is writing something, he either writes it to the picture or he
writes a symphony. In videogames, it’s actually both. You’re not locked to picture, but
you do need to write for a defined story with a certain goal or path. The motions,
emotions, and all the factors are already built in there, and you have to fill it with
the musical emotion. So it has both worlds inside it, which makes it very intriguing
and quite interesting.
ScoreNotes: Can you take us back to your work on the Prince of Persia videogame
series and tell us about some of the different themes and motifs that powered those
soundtracks?
Inon Zur: Overall, Prince of Persia is a fantasy, so that is one component about it that
the composer needs to understand before he starts composing. The second thing is that
Prince of Persia embodies an ethnic quality to it. Both factors influenced me a lot, so the
way I orchestrated and composed it was in a storytelling style rather than something
that sounds modern. I also used a lot of motifs, instruments, and scales. These two
factors were pretty much the most influential elements with the creative writing process.
Now, the world of Prince of Persia always had the human versus something that is not
very human and usually very evil. Generally, the emotions in Prince of Persia and the
challenges that exist in the world are very humanlike, but overall the outcomes were
always in an exaggerated proportion that is a fairytale-ish style. So the trick is to get
very up close and personal when it comes to the actual Prince and what he feels, yet get
really grand and emotional when it comes to the large battle. So you have to sort of play
within these two arenas, and this is true to all Prince of Persia’s games.
Now, each one of them is very, very different from the other one. First, in the Sands
of Time, which I did not compose, the Prince was very young, and it was more ambient/
 Chapter 25 Keeping Score with Inon Zur 167

Middle Eastern. With the second, third, and fourth, the Prince is growing up, and with
it, the music also matures. Maturing meant more orchestral music, more serious themes,
more use of complicated music rather than rhythms and melodies. I can say that the last
one [Prince of Persia] really brought it to a new climax because of the very emotional
romance that was going on in the storyline. So we had to address this issue, too, which
actually opened a lot of opportunities for interesting music.
ScoreNotes: Does a project like Lineage II: Chronicle V: Oath Of Blood stand out as a
special project to you? I felt that the score for this title was particularly moving and
dramatic!
Inon Zur: It was special because I was basically given a free hand to do whatever
I wanted. The most interesting thing about Lineage is that most of the cues that
I wrote had one or maybe two words that described what I needed to do. Love. . .de-
ception. . .intrigue. . .evil. That’s it! Write the cue!! [Laughs] But it allowed me to basi-
cally exercise one of the more free-writing styles that I ever did because I really had
almost no description of what’s going on. They just wanted the emotion, period. It
was a very interesting approach, so yes, that was a lot of fun.
ScoreNotes: Can you comment on the use of the haunting and dramatic vocals heard on
some of the tracks?
Inon Zur: Vocals always evoke different emotions. When you hear a vocal, it’s easier to
identify. Sometimes it doesn’t even matter if you understand the lyrics or not. Just hear-
ing the human voice evokes some emotions that sometimes do not occur when you don’t
use it. So it could be very effective when we’re talking about the most delicate and
sensitive human emotions.
ScoreNotes: As we all know, there are high levels of complexity and thought put into
the development of game titles. What would you say are some of the toughest compo-
nents to juggle while scoring a videogame?
Inon Zur: I liken it to movies where composers write the music to the picture, and he or
she really cares that the music will address what’s going on there. Period. In games,
that’s about 50 percent of it. The other 50 percent are the different cues of the music
in the game, because you’re not writing music for a certain specific thought. You write
music for a level, a map, an area. So lets say a minute and a half to a two-minute
sequence of music needs to serve an area where the player spends a good 45 minutes
on that level or environment. So there starts what we call the implementation state. As a
composer, you have to be very aware of the fact that the music has to serve a place
where it wouldn’t necessarily hit every point, sword hit, or gunshot, etc. It should be
168 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Videogame Composers

there and, again, evoke certain emotions and describe what’s going on in a general way.
But if you write it with a certain approach and the music just loops and loops and loops,
the player will usually get tired of it after 10 minutes and will shut it off. So here comes
the next part.
The next tactic is how you compose in a way that you can take what you’ve composed
and actually pull it apart, break it down to different stems, loops, and elements, and
play them separately in particular spots so you won’t feel that the music is repeating
itself again and again. This is the basic idea. Now, if you are progressing further, such as
going from fighting single enemies to tens of enemies, then maybe you want to increase
the intensity of the music. How do you increase the intensity when all that you have in
the budget is enough to compose two minutes? Well, there are a lot of methods to do it,
and I don’t want to really get technical here, but these are some of the components that
composers in other media don’t have to worry about, but it’s part of our method.
ScoreNotes: Have you ever had an experience when you were playing a game you had
worked on and you notice that the music was not used in the manner that you intended
it to?
Inon Zur: Oh, sure. It happened a lot during the early stages when the process was all a
bit more, let’s say, primitive. But also it sometimes has to do with people who were not
as professional as I expected them to be. I’m trying to be involved as much as I can with
the implementation part, but sometimes they just say to me, “Don’t worry about it;
we’ll take care of it.” And then I really start to worry.
ScoreNotes: In some respects, much like a film composer hands off the music to the
director, sometimes you don’t know just exactly how it will be used.
Inon Zur: That’s true.
ScoreNotes: Can you comment on just how much more serious and intense the gaming
experience has become thanks to the use of these well thought out, often orchestral, scores?
Inon Zur: Games are looking to be closer and closer to movies (with the interactive
component), and it’s not all about the challenge of winning or losing in games. It’s
about the way the game looks, the way the game feels, and the emotional impact
that the game has on the player. For example, when people are playing Fallout, many
of them have told me that they had to stop playing after 15 minutes because they were
too scared. So, basically, in this way, the music has a lot to contribute. I think that the
increased awareness in the last five or six years about the importance of it and the atten-
tion that is being directed to music in games, has definitely created a very unique and
much higher quality product.
 Keeping Score with
26 Cris Velasco

Used by permission.

Cris Velasco.

C
omposer Cris Velasco has paid his dues. In the process, he’s essentially proven a
classic point that if someone wants to succeed badly enough, and has the talent
to do so, then there is a path forward.
In this segment, Cris takes us back to his early days of composing and shares some
rather interesting recollections about what he had to do to earn his stripes in the busi-
ness. Now one of the premiere composers in the videogame industry, Cris has worked
on such top titles as God of War, Beowulf, Clive Barker’s Jericho, and more. . .

Cris Velasco (2009)

ScoreNotes: Can you describe to us what it’s like to be on the front lines of the emerging
and dynamic videogame music scene?

169
170 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Videogame Composers

Cris Velasco: I definitely feel very lucky to be here. I probably just got into the business
at the last possible second while people were still not convinced that game music would
be anything noteworthy. I started, I think, five years ago, and it went from where it was,
just a complete rarity, to actually having a live music budget; and even then, we just
brought a few soloists into the studio. Now, almost every project I’m doing is getting at
least a 60-piece orchestra. I’ve definitely, firsthand, seen it go from small to large in just
a few years.
ScoreNotes: Before you became engrossed in game music, what were some of the proj-
ects you had worked on during the earlier days of your career?
Cris Velasco: I started out doing some orchestrating for Disney and did the odd short
film here and there. I actually knew pretty early on after graduating from UCLA that I
wanted to get into the gaming industry. It took a long time; I definitely paid my dues.
It’s almost embarrassing to say, but it took me like eight years to go from graduation to
actually making a living writing music.
ScoreNotes: Often times, we hear about the up and coming film composers who have to
work on small, independent projects to make their mark. Is there any type of a parallel
trajectory in the world of game music to “make it” in the business?
Cris Velasco: Yeah, kind of. My very, very first project, that I don’t often talk about just
because it didn’t feel like my “real” first game music experience, was in the mod com-
munity, which is short for modification. A lot of times kids who want to be pro-
grammers or somehow work in the game industry will get together with some other
like-minded people that really don’t have a lot of professional experience and will
work on mods. They’ll take a popular game like Half Life, for instance, which is the
game I worked on, and will take the source code from the real developer, which allows
them to get inside the inner workings of the game and change things around and essen-
tially make their own game out of it. I did a Half Life mod called Gunmen Chronicles. It
started out with just a bunch of kids having fun, and I was looking for an opportunity to
score a game even if it wasn’t going to pay anything. I just wanted to build up my chops
for writing. It just so happened that I picked an excellent one to work on because this
mod seemed professional enough that Valve, the original creators of Half Life, discov-
ered it and decided that they wanted to fund this thing and really get it up to speed. It
was actually picked up between Valve and Sierra and was released. You can still go to
Best Buy today and find this game there. That was sort of my first “music for games”
experience.
After that, nothing happened for a while. It didn’t really give my career a shot in the arm
I was hoping it would. But, after a lot of weird, odd jobs, musically speaking, I finally
 Chapter 26 Keeping Score with Cris Vel asc o 171

got the opportunity to write a few minutes of music for the Battlestar Galactica game
five years ago. That was with Vivindi Universal, and they liked what they heard and
hired me to write more and more for that game. I went on to do four more games for
them, and after that my career just took off.
ScoreNotes: Thank you for sharing how you got your start in the business. This is the
kind of background that I think many readers would be interested in reading about
because there is a lot of sacrificing that goes on behind the scenes.
Cris Velasco: It’s funny. I have a lot of friends that are also composers, and it’s always
better when you can rise up the ranks with your own friends and sort of leave no man
behind. But it doesn’t always happen that way. So I have a lot of friends who have asked
me for pointers, and I tell all of them my story about working with mods and just get-
ting a feeling for writing for games and the mechanics of game music, about how it has
to loop and getting it more interactive with the game play. But I always stress to every-
body to work on mods to get their feet wet. And almost everyone turned their noses up
to that because it’s not sexy, there’s no money in it, and they just want to go 0 to 60 just
like that.
I had one friend who took my advice. I sort of laid out a plan for him and advised him to
look at all the different mods being made in the community and find two or three that
are really good and then do a professional sounding demo for them and just get on
board. You’re not gonna make money, but if those guys are any good, they’ll eventually
get picked up by some big gaming company, and if your music is good, they’re going to
remember you, and that’s sort of your in to a bigger company. Nobody did it but this
one guy, and today he’s an audio director for a company.
ScoreNotes: Sometimes there are no shortcuts, and you really do have to get in there and
grind it out.
Cris Velasco: There’s a very, very small percentage that gets really lucky and just makes
it happen almost immediately. But for the rest of us, it’s kind of a grueling process. Like
we said, paying your dues, honing your craft, and making connections. If you’re tena-
cious enough and have talent, I really think that eventually it will happen.
ScoreNotes: Can you please tell us about some of your contributions to the God of
War series?
Cris Velasco: I would never say that God of War single-handedly made my career, but it
definitely played a big part. I’m not the only composer on it, of course . . . there are four to
five composers working on each one, and we all kind of take the credit for these scores.
But the first one kind of really came out of nowhere. I had a friend, Victor Rodriguez,
172 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Videogame Composers

over at Sony in Santa Monica at the time who was telling me that he had a new game
coming up and felt that it had potential to be huge and wanted me to demo for it. He kind
of described it, said it sounded great and would be something that I would love to work
on. I submitted a demo for that, and luckily they liked it and brought me on board along
with everyone else. That game turned out to be such a monster hit for them, and it was
the same for the composers. It really meant a lot, even though there were four or five of
us, to say that you were on the composing team for God of War. It instantly gave you
some street cred [laughs].
ScoreNotes: When you talk about a group dynamic, such as the team of composers on
this project, did you collaborate amongst yourselves to develop the material?
Cris Velasco: No, the guys at Sony managed all of us, and there wasn’t, at least for my
part, interaction between composers. I’d just get a call from someone over there (with
instructions on what level I had to work on). They would make sure that each composer
was writing within the style guides of God of War, sort of how we had determined what
that music was going to sound like.
ScoreNotes: Can you take us a bit behind the scenes and tell us about your time spent
working on Clive Barker’s Jericho?
Cris Velasco: Clive Barker’s Jericho, and I’ve said this before in other interviews and it’s
still completely true to this day, was a dream project for me. I’ve been a huge Clive
Barker fan since I was a kid. Even as a much younger kid, I would go to my friend’s
house, and every single weekend we’d rent the first two Hellraiser movies and watch
those over and over again. I’ve continued to be a fan throughout my whole life, pretty
much.
It’s funny. To show you where my head was at with Clive, I started out as a huge fan
even before I was in music—I got a pretty late start in music, like in my early 20s—and
so I went from just being a fan. I would show up with my book when he was doing book
signings in Los Angeles and would feel nervous about meeting him in person and shak-
ing his hand. When I eventually went to college and got into composing a few years
later, I’m still going to book signings to meet the guy, and now he’s seen me over and
over and over throughout the years, so he’s starting to kind of remember me. So I tran-
sitioned into telling him that I was a composer and that one day I would be working
with him. I told him it’s my dream that this is going to be happen and just to be on guard
[laughs]. He was super nice about it and encouraging.
Maybe a couple years later, when I had my first demo CD, I brought it to him at the
signing, and I was very nervous about handing it over to him because I respected him so
 Chapter 26 Keeping Score with Cris Vel asc o 173

much, and if he hated it, it would crush me. But I gave him the CD, and nothing really
happened from there. I was waiting in line at another signing, and his assistant was
there, and I asked her if he had listened to the CD yet. She said, yes, that they listened
to it on the way back in the car after I had given it to him, and he really liked it. That
gave me the encouragement to go talk to him again. And this is like over 10 years of
meeting this guy at book signings. Finally, we got to the point where he actually called
me up at home and said, “Hey, Chris, I’ve got this videogame I’m doing (Clive Barker’s
Demonik), and I’d be really honored if you would think about writing music for
Demonik. And you know, I flipped out, of course. I got under contract, and I went
to meetings at his house about it, and the developer was there as well. It was unbeliev-
able. And then a couple weeks later, the whole game got cancelled. I was just
devastated.
So after that, like a year later, I was talking to him on the phone—now I just kind of
keep in touch with him, going from the fanboy phase into just being friends phase—and
he said, “Hey, I actually have this other game, Jericho. If you’d be interested in scoring
that, maybe we can finally make this thing happen.” I said, “Of course,” and was in
negotiations with Codemasters about it, and something happened where they actually
stopped taking my calls. And that was that. I was just not on Jericho at all. This was
apparently unbeknownst to Clive. He thought I was working on it the whole time. And
then about a month before the release of Jericho, I get a call from Codemasters saying,
“Hey Chris, could you come in and rewrite all the music for Jericho in like three
weeks?” It was almost two hours of music, and I was already working on two projects
at the time. I thought this was finally my opportunity to work with Clive, and I knew
I couldn’t drop the other things because I’m not going to let my clients down. But I
thought somehow I’ll make this happen, so I said, “Sure, I’ll do it.” I called up Clive
and asked him what happened. He said they hired somebody else and he didn’t know
about it. They had just had a big meeting at Clive’s house, and he had apparently flipped
out when he heard the music and asked if I had actually written the music.
So they hired me, and I worked very hard, and not only did we churn out two hours of
music for the game, but in that time, we also went up to Skywalker Ranch and recorded
a live choir for it.
ScoreNotes: Wow, what a topsy-turvy adventure that was!
Cris Velasco: Yeah, it was bananas.
ScoreNotes: In that one month when all this was happening, what was your average day
like during that time period?
174 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Videogame Composers

Cris Velasco: My schedule was a minimum 18-hour workday, and maximum was 20 to
22 hours. It was brutal.
ScoreNotes: It must have been tough remaining creative for such long hours at a time, no?
Cris Velasco: Well, you know, I couldn’t say no to this dream project, and you have to
do what you have to do.
ScoreNotes: Earlier in our conversation, you mentioned that you got a late start in the
business. Did you find that you had to work harder to catch up, or did composing just
seem to come naturally for you?
Cris Velasco: It just kind of clicked naturally. When I graduated from high school, I had
just started playing guitar, which was the only music I knew at the time. I had a death
metal band actually [laughs]. From there, I didn’t know what I wanted to do with my
life. I didn’t go off to a university right away; I went to my local junior college just to
figure my stuff out. I took a class in pretty much everything to figure out just what I was
actually interested in to make it my life. Nothing was really clicking, and then I took a
music appreciation course, which just seemed like an easy credit but seemed interesting,
too. That course changed my life.
We were listening to the last movement of Mozart’s 40th Symphony, and I had an
epiphany in class that this is amazing and this is what I wanted to do with my life,
which was kind of hilarious because I didn’t even know how to read music. I’m not
sure if I had even been to the symphony at that point, but just something about that
Mozart piece really spoke to me so profoundly that it did change my life. From there, I
kind of dropped everything and enrolled only in music classes. A year later, I transferred
to UCLA in their composition department, studied really hard over there, and got my
degree. And here I am today.
 Keeping Score with
27 Jesper Kyd

Used by permission.

Jesper Kyd.

J esper Kyd is entrenched in the heart of today’s game music movement. Having
worked on such notable titles as Assassin’s Creed and the Hitman series, Jesper
has a strong grasp on what a videogame needs from its score. In fact, I feel it’s
composers like him who are playing a key role in the rapid rise of game music as an
accepted and popular option for soundtrack lovers.
In this interview, Jesper gives us a rather enlightening glimpse into his motivations as a
composer in this field. He also discusses some of the inner workings that went into the
creation of his scores and touches on the need for an increased availability of videogame
soundtracks in the commercial market . . .

Jesper Kyd (2009)

ScoreNotes: What is it like to write scores for such an interactive medium as game
music?

175
176 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Videogame Composers

Jesper Kyd: I guess it depends on what you compare it to. It’s definitely very challenging
to think that videogame music is easy. It’s definitely not the case. Videogame music had
kind of a bad reputation there for a while, which has pretty much changed now, but the
bad rep being that it’s not as well composed as film scores. I just want to add that it is
very difficult to create music for a videogame that stands out. For film, you have film
music schools, you have teachers, you have educators, and everything to help you fit
into what a good Hollywood film score should sound like. For games, I have had to, on
a personal level, just kind of figure everything out on my own. So yeah, of course you
can always come in and say I’ll do my film style for the videogame and treat it like that,
which is fine and it’s being done, but it’s not really a case where the videogame music
shines the most or is being pushed as far as it can. It should be handled with a kind of
attention to detail and attention to what makes a good score for a videogame, which is
not the same as what makes a good score for a film.
ScoreNotes: So is it safe to say there is more of an institution in place around film scor-
ing and that the nature of game music just might be too new?
Jesper Kyd: Yes, it is, but there is a flip side to that. There’s definitely an institution.
There are certain ways things are when it comes to film music. If you’re interested in
listening to game scores, or you play a game and you like the music and you want to find
it, it’s a little bit harder to find the music. It’s not as readily available. I don’t want to say
it’s an “underground” scene because there are so many fans and gamers, and they are so
into the music when there is a good score out there, but it’s definitely more in that
[underground] area.
The thing about it is that there are at least as many fans of videogame music as there are,
I feel, for film music. It’s just that film music is much more visible; there’s a promotional
package behind it, and they do things the way they’ve done [them] for years regarding
the way that they promote their scores. In games, sometimes a great score is never even
promoted. The game sells eight million copies, and suddenly all the fans are like ripping
the music from the game and going out there and finding the music anyway, even
though it was never released. Things like that can’t happen with a film. I mean some-
times you have a DVD that has its own soundtrack, but it’s really rare that you’ll find a
movie [for which] you can play the soundtrack option without the sound effects. But in
a videogame, the fans go inside the game, they rip out the music, and they spread it
around on the Internet. There are tons of different bootleg versions of the Assassin’s
Creed score out there because it took us over a year to get the soundtrack out.
ScoreNotes: This is all probably to the detriment of the composers who are working
very hard in creating these scores. Ideally, would you like to see a regular interval of
soundtrack releases with these games?
 Chapter 27 Keeping Score w i t h Jes p e r K yd 177

Jesper Kyd: Yes, that would be great. I probably have more scores out than other com-
posers working in the game industry (at least 10 on iTunes). Some of us are able to get it
out, but there is no set way in which these things always get put out. That’s something I
would like to see improve.
ScoreNotes: What aspect do you enjoy the most about being a composer for games, and
what would you say is the most difficult?
Jesper Kyd: Oh, that’s easy: the creative freedom. It’s also the hardest part. If you are
able to convince the team to give you almost creative freedom, then you know you are in
for a rewarding ride but also a tough ride because you have to come up with a lot of
ideas. But it’s very cool because you actually get to come up with ideas to help the team
find the right music style. In movies, and personally with the films I’ve done, it’s been
more a collaboration between the director and the composer. Sometimes the director
knows what he wants, and you kind of go in that direction, and obviously other times
you get a bit more creative freedom there as well. But with game scores, the creative
freedom is just vast because you don’t always have the images—you don’t have the
picture. So you don’t have to slave to the picture; you can pull back further. You
don’t have to be so up-close and look at every little scene that changes. You have to
be aware of these things in videogames as well, but you have to be aware of the overall
mood and atmosphere, so you have to pull back a little bit further.
ScoreNotes: One of the marquee projects of yours, Assassin’s Creed, offered quite an
interesting palette of music. Did you find any aspect of the game particularly challeng-
ing to score given the rather distinct differences of the game’s locations?
Jesper Kyd: Yeah, the hardest part was probably scoring the escape sequences for the
game, which, funnily enough, are the tracks that people seem to be responding to the
most. But they were tricky to find because we didn’t quite know what we wanted, but
we knew we wanted something that was really “out there.” And finding the fine line of
sci-fi scoring—because there is a sci-fi element to Assassin’s Creed—and not going too
far with it because we had to make sure it fit the rest of the score, which is inspired more
by the Middle Ages. Finding that line between those two [sci-fi and fantasy] was prob-
ably the hardest part about that score.
ScoreNotes: How motivating is it when you’re brought on to score ambitious projects
like an Assassin’s Creed?
Jesper Kyd: When I was involved with it, it was probably a year and a half before it was
released. So what I saw was not much. I was working more from concept art and these
things. I knew it was an extremely ambitious title, but never really knew from the begin-
ning if they were going to be able to do everything they said they were going to do; it
178 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Videogame Composers

was just so out there. They told me things [about the game] like its mysticism, the trag-
edy of the crusades, people getting killed in the name of religion. It was very interesting
to put all these elements into a videogame score. It’s not very often you get to have
underlying tragic elements; it’s more like the film realm where you’re used to dealing
with those things.
ScoreNotes: Is there a type of videogame you enjoy writing for more than other types?
I’m not referring to genre—rather, specific to the gameplay (for example, first-person,
arcade-style RPGs).
Jesper Kyd: Yeah, there is. I like to write for games that take the story seriously. I think
all games have somewhat of a story, but some games take the story and put it much
more into focus. Just as in writing for film, you get to do really dramatic stuff. So that’s
definitely my preference, to support a great story.
ScoreNotes: It seems more and more that game scores are indeed heading toward the
seriousness and respectability of film. Just how bright a future does game music have, in
your opinion?
Jesper Kyd: I think we’ve come a long way. There’s been a lot of emphasis put on quality
composition lately, and film composers coming into the game industry have certainly
brought a sense of quality composition. I do think we have to remember that quality
composition isn’t everything. I think, right now, it’s being looked at as one of the most
important things. I could be wrong, but that’s the sense I get, and I think we need to
remember to focus on creating original music also. Just because a game sounds as good
as a movie, that doesn’t really impress me. If you hire a good film composer, your game
will sound as good as a film. But is that really what it’s about? I think it’s more about
creating something as original as the game. You have these highly original games com-
ing out, and I think we need to match that with highly original music. Music that’s
highly creative and really out there. When you hire a film composer, you usually hire
them to do their thing, and then you get that film sound for that game. But, again, a
game is not a film, unless all you support are the cut scenes and the cinematics; then
obviously there is basically no difference. But what about when you’re running around
and exploring, or you’re sneaking around or engaged in combat? All these things are not
the same as the kind of music you’d write for film.
ScoreNotes: Yes, and it could probably take a film composer off guard because I imag-
ine some of the nuances in game playing require a certain, different type of approach be
taken for the music to work correctly in the context of a game.
 Chapter 27 Keeping Score w i t h Jes p e r K yd 179

Jesper Kyd: Yeah, you do. I’ve scored eight feature films so far, so I’m getting pretty
familiar with scoring film. It’s very interesting. For example, you can have like an action
scene, and you have 30 seconds of build up, and then you have one minute of really
intense action maybe, and then you have dialogue where you have to go way down to
make room, and you go into some suspense and tension. . . and this is all like in three
minutes! But in a game, you’re often asked, “Oh, we need a four-minute combat cue.
And the intensity needs to be on 11 for all four minutes.” You realize that’s not the same
as writing what I just described for film. It’s about staying in the same mood for a long
time. How do you do that and keep it interesting? It’s a different mentality. . . it’s almost
like writing a song, a combat song.
ScoreNotes: As we wrap up here, I often wonder if game composers like to sit down and
actually play the games they write music for. Do you consider yourself an avid gamer?
Jesper Kyd: I am a gamer. I don’t have as much time to play as I want, but I definitely
like to pick up the game pad and play some games.
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 Keeping Score with
28 Jason Graves

Used by permission.

Jason Graves.

T
here is much to like about the music of Jason Graves. Here, we have a composer
who has delivered one highly effective score after another in the videogame
medium and has established a track record of reliability amongst fans and
game developers while doing so. His work has earned him numerous accolades includ-
ing the two prestigious BAFTA awards (British Academy of Film and Television Arts)
for his superlative work on Dead Space, the immensely popular horror-action title
released in 2008.
As that fine line of fan popularity between game music and film scores is blurred even
further, it’s the effective, memorable work from composers like Jason that is making the
difference . . .

Jason Graves (2009)

ScoreNotes: What are some of the creative directions in which you were able to guide
the music of Section 8?

181
182 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Videogame Composers

Jason Graves: The only real instruction that TimeGate provided was for the score to
have a gung-ho “exploring the stars with really big guns” feel to it. Some of the tracks
they picked as suggestions were very breakbeat-based, like “The Chemical Brothers” or
“The Prodigy”—pretty much no orchestral music in there at all. However, they seemed
less concerned with those tracks and more concerned with what I could bring to the
game that would create a unique playing experience.
So I took the idea of the orchestral score I had in my head and tweaked it out a little
bit—a breakbeat here, maybe a dance beat there, me playing some nasty guitar in this
one, tweak and play my analog synths for that one. I was like a kid in a candy store!
Sometimes specific genre games can be very limiting, but no one ever said things like
“We don’t want any trumpets or woodwinds” or “All the pieces have to be fast with
breakbeats.” I was given total freedom to brainstorm and try different things. There was
one piece where I was asked to change a snare drum sound. That was pretty much the
extent of the corrections involved once the main theme was established. Of course, if the
score isn’t well received in the game or as a soundtrack, I have only myself to blame! But
I am personally happy with the final result, regardless.
ScoreNotes: Is the creative freedom on a score like Section 8 one of the reasons that
makes writing game music such a great place for composers?
Jason Graves: Absolutely! I don’t know of any other medium that allows such creative
freedom, and I’ve spent lots of time in film, television, commercials, and radio. I think
it has a lot to do with the sheer amount of music that needs to be produced, combined
with the nonlinear aspects of music for games. For TV and especially film, an AAA
composer has a team of five to ten people who are there to help with anything from
finishing up last night’s cue, orchestrating, or making travel arrangements for the
recording date. The same goes for the director you’re working for. They have plenty
of people helping and can devote time towards musical corrections, conversations
about plot points, etc.
In games, we’re a much smaller, though more voracious, group of artists. I don’t have
any assistants to compose music for me, fix my computer, or get me a cup of coffee.
The audio director I’m working with is the sole person responsible for all the audio
in the game—not just my music. We’re always very focused and well-meaning
towards each other, but there’s a general unspoken understanding that everyone is working
at max capacity and time is short, so let’s do the best job we can as quickly as we can and get
it all in the game before it ships. And there are two of us, not ten or twenty. That kind of
“survival instinct” can bring out the best in people. You know, the whole “grace under fire”
thing.
 Chapter 28 K eeping Score w ith Jas on G raves 183

Speaking of creative freedom, I feel extremely lucky to have minimal corrections to my

music once it’s been submitted. There were a few pieces we tweaked a little for Dead
Space, there was the snare drum fix for Section 8, [and] another recent game had two or
three tweaks out of the 40-plus cues. Compare that to a commercial I did this week: The
fifteen-second version had more than ten revisions! I would like to think that’s a reflection
on the music approval process in these different mediums and not directly related to my
music.
Combine all of that with the idea of nonlinear storytelling in games and you have a
whole new way to represent the story through music. No longer are you dependent
on frame rate, minutes, and seconds to make the scene play perfectly. My general
instructions for any game are pretty much things like: “We’re going to need a few
more of those three-minute combat cues. While you’re at it, go ahead and do four
more of the pre-combat cues as well; two minutes each would be fine, thanks.” I get
to score ideas and emotions, free of any markers, hit-points, or video edits.
Not to say that I don’t enjoy composing to picture for film or game cinematics. It’s actually
one of my favorite things to do—like trying to figure out a musical puzzle. But it does have
more restrictions and requirements than the open freedom of in-game music.
ScoreNotes: Can you talk about the combination of orchestral elements and electronic
tools that you were able to bring together for the music?
Jason Graves: That was the main reason I decided to take the job when TimeGate called
with the offer. I was their first choice, which is very flattering, but I wasn’t interested in
composing the same kind of score I had done in the past. I was afraid that was exactly
the kind of score they were going to ask me to do. Fortunately, that was not the case. I
saw Section 8 as a great opportunity to take my three musical passions and blend them
together into a soundtrack: orchestral music, guitars, and synthesizers. The best part
about using such diverse instruments is I was able to perform all the guitars and synths
myself, which was an absolute blast to do.
While the score is based firmly in the orchestral world, I was able to bring the other
elements in and treat them as additional members of the ensemble. The end result is a
score that uses guitars and synthesizers more as textural elements that blend and sup-
port the orchestra and sometimes take the lead when needed.
There are two main locations in the campaign mode of Section 8: temperate and desert.
I used a more traditional orchestra, as well as more traditional music composition, for
the temperate location. The desert has the hybrid rock/synth edge to it, along with more
dissonant harmonies and [a] modern approach to the music. I also used the desert as a
great excuse to pull out all my percussion instruments and record myself playing.
184 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Videogame Composers

Used by permission.

ScoreNotes: I’d like to look back on another project of yours—the harrowing and
intense game, Dead Space. Please tell us about the feedback you received for your
work on this?
Jason Graves: There were two very distinct experiences I remember from Dead Space.
The first was during the composition, wondering if such a brutal, non-melodic score
would find any favor with critics or fans. The second experience was the feedback
after the game was released. Truthfully, I was a bit overwhelmed at the response. I con-
tinue to get e-mails and messages from fans, both people who play games and [people
who] make them. I think the entire audio team from Dead Space was pleasantly sur-
prised, albeit happily satisfied, at the awards and press that the audio garnered.
ScoreNotes: Can you discuss the rather elaborate implementation of your music in Dead
Space?
Jason Graves: The main direction I had from EA was to create a score that could seam-
lessly move from subtle and spooky to extreme tension in a moment’s notice, depending
 Chapter 28 K eeping Score w ith Jas on G raves 185

on the gameplay. In order for a single piece of music to have this kind of flexibility,
Dead Space needed an adaptive score, meaning music that actively changes with game-
play. EA had already determined we needed four individual levels of music to smoothly
transition from the lowest to the highest intensity levels.
I approached the music one of two ways. I would compose a high intensity cue and then
deconstruct it and break it down into those four levels. This technique worked well for
large creature battles—pieces that were fairly loud from the first level and simply got
more rhythmically intense as the levels increased. The second technique was to compose
the cue from the ground up, first creating a very creepy, quiet “level one” and building
the whole piece up from there. This was the way most pieces were composed because it
allowed for the entire dynamic range of the music.
ScoreNotes: As someone who composes game music, how well versed do you have to be
about the technologies that are being used for today’s titles as it relates to the audio?
Jason Graves: An easy answer to that question would be the following: “Your knowl-
edge of game audio technology need only be as deep and detailed as your desire to work
in said field.” Another easy answer would simply be “Yes.”
Seriously, the more informed you are about the technology that will be placing your
music in the game and triggering your music at the (hopefully) proper time, the better
off you are as both a composer and part of the team. Integration is everything when it
comes to game scores. The worst-sounding score could get a world-class implementa-
tion in a game and come out winning awards. On the other hand, a brilliant score can
get positively mangled by the implementation and not even get noticed or, even worse,
turned off and replaced by an iPod.
The bottom line is the more you know about the way your music is being implemented,
the better music you can compose for the game.
ScoreNotes: Can you share the details behind the BAFTA award you had won and what
it meant for you personally?
Jason Graves: Wow, where do you start? I know it sounds like a cliché, but just to be
nominated for something like that is a really amazing feeling. I simply assumed if I made
plans to attend the awards in London that I would obviously not win anything, but if I
didn’t attend, I would win and would regret missing it. I finally decided it would be a
wonderful experience just to be there, regardless of the outcome.
The audio in Dead Space was nominated for two awards—“Use of Audio,” which
included sound effects, dialog and music; and “Original Score.” We won “Use of
186 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Videogame Composers

Audio” first, which truthfully I expected to a certain extent and happily went onstage to
accept on behalf of the whole team. When they announced my name for “Original
Score,” it was truly one of those out-of-body experiences you read about.
I put a lot of pressure on myself to always learn something new and compose better
music with each project I score. So how do you top two British Academy awards?
I’ve been lucky to not have to go down the same horror/survival road too much since
then—my work since Dead Space and Dead Space: Extraction has been refreshingly
horror free. Though some games, such as Section 8, do have a certain hint of that feeling
in them. Now that I’ve had some time away from the horror genre, I finally feel like I
have something meaningful to contribute once again.
ScoreNotes: As the popularity of game music continues to grow, do you feel that more
composers will be recognized in the future for their work in the medium?
Jason Graves: I certainly hope so. It’s interesting to see the popularity of music for
games increase along with our capabilities as composers to get closer to hearing in
games what we hear in our heads when we’re working. Game music will continue to
become more popular as the medium itself matures and comes into its own.
Unlike film and television, game composers are completely dependent on technology to
relate their music to the people listening. It was only a few years ago when we were
stuck in the “turn music on here, turn music off there” confines of PS2 and Xbox. Now
we’re finally getting into true dynamic music that follows gameplay and reacts accord-
ingly. That’s the kind of score that will turn ears and get a composer noticed.
ScoreNotes: As we close here, what do you think are some ways in which game sound-
tracks can be better publicized to score fans?
Jason Graves: Unfortunately, as a composer my hands are often tied. My publicist, Greg
O’Connor-Read, gets the word out whenever there’s a game score worth listening to.
Music4Games is definitely the go-to site for people who want to keep up with the world
of game soundtracks. However, game publishers need to make soundtracks more of a
priority, especially when it comes to marketing their game. Of course, I’m really talking
about just getting game soundtracks released in the first place. That’s really the most
challenging thing to do.
I think live concerts like Video Games Live and Play! are doing a lot to get the music out
to the masses. I’m hoping that digital distribution systems such as iTunes will make the
idea of releasing game soundtracks more appealing to publishers. Unless you’re scoring
a big game, it can be difficult to convince someone that spending money on pressing
your CDs, doing the artwork, and working out the legal rights for a soundtrack are
 Chapter 28 K eeping Score w ith Jas on G raves 187

worth it. If you bypass the expense of physically pressed discs, the whole equation
becomes a lot more appealing, from an income/expense point of view.
Also, I think game music will get more attention from fans, and probably more publicity
as well, as it continues to come into its own. Technology is finally starting to allow
composers to create really interesting, immersive scores that merit people’s attention,
whether listened to in-game or on their own. I know that beyond supporting the game,
that’s always my ultimate goal with every project I score.
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 PART
Interviews with the Composers
of the Future IV

The following interviews depict, in my opinion, the next generation of

composers to look out for. Of those featured, some have worked on prom-
inent, commercial films already while others are earning their stripes on
various independent productions. I’ve also taken into account, in some
cases, the modern approach that a composer of the future must harness,
which includes speed, quality, and the use of cutting-edge technology
for today’s fast paced world of film and television scoring.
In all, there is a wealth of talent to discover in the following pages with
great experiences to read about. Whether the following composers are new
to you or you have already listened to their fine work, I hope you enjoy
getting to know them through these chapters and that you have a chance
to explore the soundtracks that are discussed. After all, if one were to
judge by talent alone and not merely by a string of lengthy credentials, I
think we might come to the conclusion that the future has already arrived.
This page intentionally left blank
 Keeping Score with
29 Kyle Eastwood

K
yle Eastwood has shown promise as a composer of the future. His tactful
approach to the films he has worked on exhibits a certain sense of craftsman-
ship that I feel will serve him well in the future. For example, I very much
enjoyed the stirring theme from Kyle (and writing partner Michael Stevens) in Letters
from Iwo Jima, an effort that solidified his spot in this book.
Kyle has had an ongoing collaboration with his father, Clint Eastwood, dating back to
their work on Flags of Our Fathers. I spoke with Kyle during the time that Gran Torino
was making its ascent in early 2009 and thought it would be interesting to find out more
about the family dynamic involved in Clint and Kyle’s working relationship. . .

Kyle Eastwood (2009)

ScoreNotes: Starting the discussion off with Gran Torino—how pleased are you with
the positive manner in which the film was received?
Kyle Eastwood: I’m very pleased, actually. It’s nice to see the reaction be so good for the
film. It’s always nice to be a part of a film that the public seems to accept widely.
ScoreNotes: Given that the film was a smaller-scaled, personal drama, was it challeng-
ing to determine which moments in the film required music?
Kyle Eastwood: There’s not a lot of music in the film, really, so you have to kind of pick
your spots where you want to go in, where you think it needs music. The main thing we
concentrated on was the song at the end and the key moments in the film.
ScoreNotes: Can you tell us about your involvement with the film’s Golden Globe nom-
inated song?
Kyle Eastwood: My writing partner, Michael Stevens, and I had started to do some
work on the film, and my father came up with a melody at the piano. Michael and I
fleshed it out into a song, and we had done a little work with Jamie Cullum over the last
few years and thought it would be a good idea to see if he would take a shot at writing

191
192 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

some lyrics for it and possibly sing it. He read the script and wrote the lyrics and
changed a couple of little things in the song, and we ended up recording him singing it.
ScoreNotes: It came out really well, as the award nomination can attest to. It was a
great job done by one and all.
Kyle Eastwood: Thank you.
ScoreNotes: How important was subtlety in the score for Gran Torino, where there is
such limited, focused music throughout?
Kyle Eastwood: We kind of incorporated the theme from the song in a few cues, and the
rest were atmospheric and tension kind of things. We used a military snare drum for
Walt’s theme for the film. My father really is more about “less is more” with music in
films anyway, so that’s the direction we took.
ScoreNotes: Looking back a couple years ago at your work on Letters from Iwo Jima,
can you tell us about what it was like to work on a project with such a unique perspec-
tive in storytelling?
Kyle Eastwood: Michael Stevens and I had done a lot of work on Flags of Our Fathers,
so we were actually doing the score for Flags when [Clint Eastwood] decided to con-
tinue on and make a second film back-to-back. We were in the mode of that storytelling
[on Flags of Our Fathers] when he asked us to continue on and keep going with the
other film. I just read the script, and we actually started writing it before we even saw
any of the film. We had an idea of what it was going to look like, and we knew what the
story was. We started coming up with themes even before we started seeing any of the
picture.
ScoreNotes: Your theme for the film impacted more on a human level than a country-
specific tone. How important was it to represent the characters with music that would
be relatable to a general audience?
Kyle Eastwood: We consciously decided not to go down the whole route of doing too
much of the ethnic or Japanese kind of sounding things. There are a couple of themes we
came up with on Japanese–sounding instruments, but [we] ended up transferring them
over and playing them on the piano or trumpet—things like that. We decided to stay
more away from that and just do something that sounded a little bit more military and
kind of bookend the music from the other film.
ScoreNotes: What was the creative chemistry like with your father as you worked on
each of these films? I’d have to imagine this is one director-composer relationship that
really must work well!
 Chapter 29 Keeping Score with Kyle Eastwood 193

Kyle Eastwood: We have a good working relationship. When you work with him, he has
a pretty definitive idea about what he wants with certain things. But then a lot of times
we’ll pick a scene that needs music, and he’ll let me go and just come up with something
that I feel is necessary for that scene. So it’s good like that. He’ll listen to something and
give you a little bit of direction to go in. But it’s a good working relationship; you get
quite a bit of freedom in a lot of respects.
ScoreNotes: I’m always curious about what it’s like when you work within family
dynamics on commercial projects. It sounds like it works out quite nicely for the two
of you.
Kyle Eastwood: Yeah, it’s good. I have a studio set up in his guest house, and that’s
where a lot of the scores are actually written. Quite a bit of them are actually recorded
in there as well. So it’s nice he can come over and just pop in and listen to things in
progress. So it works out well that way.
ScoreNotes: What inspired you to take the steps toward being a film composer?
Kyle Eastwood: I’ve always loved film music and music in general, really. I was a part of
some scores here and there when I was a musician years ago when I was living in Los
Angeles. I used to play in film orchestras sometimes, so that was my initial experience
with it. I started just writing bits and pieces and some songs for films over the years, and
it’s been the last, sort of, three or four years or so that I’ve been tackling entire scores.
ScoreNotes: Is this a direction you’re looking to continue pursuing?
Kyle Eastwood: I’m thinking about doing it more and more. I split my time between
doing [film composing] and my band and my own albums, which I’m doing as well. So
right now it’s been a pretty good balance of the two.
ScoreNotes: Could you tell us more about the music you’ve been producing apart from
the world of film music?
Kyle Eastwood: They’re predominately jazz albums. I live in France a good part of the
time, and the usual working band I have is based in Europe, and we play quite a bit over
there, and we get over here to the States to play now and then. I’ve been splitting my
time between going out to Los Angeles, working on film projects, and going back and
doing the jazz thing in Europe.
ScoreNotes: Kind of a global operation you have going on there [laughs]!
Kyle Eastwood: [Laughing] Kind of, yeah.
ScoreNotes: What’s the pulse of the film-going audiences overseas that you’ve noticed?
194 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

Kyle Eastwood: I guess the European audiences are somewhat different. Letters from
Iwo Jima seemed to do pretty well over there, but that was kind of a foreign film, I
guess. I think they’re interested more in the smaller, independent films over in Europe.
ScoreNotes: The character-driven, nonblockbuster types.
Kyle Eastwood: I mean there are certain ones that go over well in Europe as well, but I
think the French are more interested in more of the smaller dramas and things like that.
ScoreNotes: Now growing up in the family that you did, I am sure there was a lot of
creativity going on. Were you tempted to catch the acting bug at any point?
Kyle Eastwood: I did a little bit here and there years ago. I was actually really more
interested in directing. I went to Film School at USC for a short period of time but then
shifted over to doing more music and never really turned back after that. I’m still
involved in film through music, which I enjoy quite a bit. The music’s kind of taken
over.
ScoreNotes: You have a varied talent going on over there for you. Do you think that will
ever lead you to directing and composing similar to your father?
Kyle Eastwood: It’s possible. I would never say never. Just between the band and doing
music for films, it’s been keeping me pretty busy over the last few years. It’s possible that
it could develop into that, but we’ll see.
ScoreNotes: Thank you for taking time to chat with us; it was really nice being able to
have this discussion.
Kyle Eastwood: Thank you very much.
 Keeping Score with
30 Richard Wells

Photo by Birgitte Truelsen.

Richard Wells.

I
f I were to tell you before 2009 came to be that the score for Mutant Chronicles
would outshine Wolverine, Star Trek, and Terminator Salvation, what would you
have thought? Well, you would have probably considered me to be a bit mad or
eccentric. However, I kid you not! This rich, orchestral score by composer Richard
Wells was one of 2009’s best, and it immediately put him on my composer appreciation
radar. A score simply isn’t this good by accident.
In this interview, Richard goes into some of the detail behind his excellent score and also
provides many other interesting tidbits about himself as well. I hope you enjoy the dis-
cussion and that you also set out to experience some of Richard’s music, preferably
starting with Mutant Chronicles (which is actually a decent B-movie–viewing experi-
ence as well!).
After being involved with film music for so long, I can get a good read on emerging
talent, and Richard is definitely someone who has formidable contributions to offer . . .

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196 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

Richard Wells (2009)

ScoreNotes: If we may, please tell us about your composing background and how you
got your start in the business.
Richard Wells: Studying archaeology at university and then doing accountancy was an
unhelpful distraction from what I always wanted to do, which was write music. My first
professional job was playing keyboards and doing programming for a Dutch band
called Xymox in the ’90s. Soon after, I met a guy called Dave Punshon who was writing
music for computer games. I worked with him and on my own on about 20 games, and
that is when I was lucky enough to start composing and getting paid for it! During this
time, I met director Jake West who was working on some live action scenes for two of
the games, and he asked me to write the music for his debut feature, Razor Blade Smile.
That got me into movies and subsequently into writing music for movie trailers, of
which I’ve done over 50. Through Jake I met Simon Hunter, as they had both been
to the same film college.
ScoreNotes: When you first met up with director Simon Hunter, what did you think
about his early concept behind Mutant Chronicles?
Richard Wells: When Simon first came to me, it was for the music for the teaser he was
making for Ed Pressman. The budget was nonexistent, and Simon was very honest and
told me that if he got the money to make the feature there was absolutely no guarantee
that I would be writing the music. So he certainly didn’t promise anything he couldn’t
deliver! I enjoyed doing the teaser, and once it was finished, I just forgot about it. I was
very surprised when Simon called me a year later to ask if I would do the feature. The
concept had changed a lot, from a gritty and grimy horror film to a much more expan-
sive and ambitious project involving world conflict. The original steam punk theme was
retained, and I think it gives the movie a very distinctive and original look. I particularly
liked the oversized guns! The other thing I thought was impressive was that it didn’t
look like anything else I had seen before.
ScoreNotes: Can you talk about the different approaches that were considered, musi-
cally, for the film?
Richard Wells: What was never in doubt was that the score would be mainly orchestral.
We both thought it was important because the concept behind the film was quite daring
and unreal, so we needed to ground the audience in something familiar, and particularly
to deal with the human emotional side. However, I didn’t want it to be purely orches-
tral, and we mixed in a lot of electronic music as well, although it is not always appar-
ent. We also decided to use a few unusual instruments including giant panpipes played
by the legendary Tony Hinnigan (Mission, Titanic), theorbo, and lute for some of the
 Chapter 30 Keeping Score with Richard Wells 197

religious music, and we also hauled an old grand piano I had in my garage into Air-
Edel’s studio and basically bashed it, scraped it, and finally dropped a large brass door
stop on it! It was probably the most useful sampling session I’ve ever done, and a lot of
the drum sounds in MC are in fact piano samples.
ScoreNotes: How pleased were you with the choice of proceeding forward in an orches-
tral direction?
Richard Wells: I was very happy with it, as long as I was allowed to add to the palette of
sounds, which I was.
ScoreNotes: Your score achieves a great balance between military heroism, stirring
drama, and visceral terror. Can you tell us about some of the themes that made up
the construct of your score?
Richard Wells: The movie for me splits into two halves, pre and post the take-off
sequence. This is where the mission really begins. I felt strongly that despite the appar-
ent hopelessness of the mission that we needed to at least give the soldiers a good send
off and generally say to the audience that amidst all the death and destruction, there is a
heroic element to what this ragtag [band is] going to do. And, in particular, they are not
doing it just for themselves, but to save the human race. So out of this came the heroic
“Take Off” theme. I also wrote a choral theme, which was very simple and pure. Some
of it got lost in the U.S. edit, but is available on the CD. It is meant to represent an old-
fashioned religious purity and is used as a total contrast to the demonic atonal aggres-
sion of the mutants’ music. Andy Reynolds played multitracked detuned erhus over a lot
of the mutant music, which gave it a very unsettling feeling. We also used the piano
samples as percussion and Tony’s giant panpipes for punctuation. Finally, there is the
theme of “Hope and Despair,” which played during moments of extreme human drama,
both positive and negative. It is a slow string theme, which also intertwines with the
religious theme.
ScoreNotes: The audio quality of your music had a great depth to it. Can you tell us a
little bit about the orchestra you used as well as the recording process?
Richard Wells: We were incredibly lucky with the orchestra. We recorded on January 3,
and there were no other sessions in London that day, so as far as I know, we got every-
one we approached. We had about 30 strings, a full brass section, and a very small
woodwind section. They were expertly conducted by Ben Wallfisch, and we got through
everything in one day, including recording the choir, which was in fact only four people,
tracked once and backed up by symphonic choirs, singing rubbish Latin—proper words,
but badly constructed sentences! All the orchestral stuff was recorded in the main hall at
Air Lyndhurst, straight into Pro Tools by Jake Jackson, who has a lot of experience
198 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

working at Air. Before we started the session, we discussed going for as big a sound as
possible, and I think Jake certainly delivered.
ScoreNotes: In general, are you a fan of science-fiction fare?
Richard Wells: I’m no fanatic, but I am a fan of some sci-fi/action/horror (Alien, Aliens,
the original Planet of the Apes). But I would have to say the story is the most important
thing to me. I’m pretty good at suspending disbelief, so I don’t really mind what the
setting is, as long as there is not too much exposition.
ScoreNotes: What can you tell us about the music of your recent project, Doghouse?
Richard Wells: Doghouse is a very different score from Mutant Chronicles, because
although it is a horror/splatter movie, it is at heart a comedy. I found it very challenging,
as musical comedy does not come naturally to me. I’m much better at dark, moody,
violent stuff. Don’t ask me why, as I am very antiviolence in real life. Maybe I just
like the big emotions, and comedy often needs a much lighter touch. But I did really
enjoy working on Doghouse despite the tight schedule.
ScoreNotes: I understand that while working on Doghouse, you were also hard at work
on the television series, Being Human. I suppose it’s not often that one gets to write
music for a vampire, a werewolf, and a ghost in one story arc?
Richard Wells: Being Human came very much out of the blue, and I was incredibly
lucky to be offered it, as I had absolutely no track record of writing for TV. I think
the one thing in my favor was that the look is very filmic. But, nonetheless, they took
a big risk on me. Being Human is a very intriguing and engaging series, brilliantly writ-
ten by Toby Whitehouse, and I honestly believe it’s an original take on the whole genre.
Although you might expect it to be a comedy, it is very much a drama, which, due to the
situation, is often funny and sometimes horrific. The premise is that three young people
who happen to be a werewolf, a vampire, and a ghost are sharing a flat in Bristol. They
all have their individual hang-ups, but they are trying to get on leading normal lives as
human beings. Of course, it doesn’t work out like that, and all kinds of things both
horrible and moving happen to them.
I would urge everyone I know to catch it when it is shown in the States. I can honestly say
that even had I had nothing to do with it, I would still have said it was the best thing on TV
while it was being shown. If you check the blogs, you will find out I was not the only one
saying that. The other good news is that it has been recommissioned for a bigger second
series at the end of this year, and I’m really looking forward to having another go at it.
ScoreNotes: Horror movies so often rely on proper timing with their music. Can you tell
us about the precision that goes into making an effectively frightful score?
 Chapter 30 Keeping Score with Richard Wells 199

Richard Wells: A frightful score sounds good! That’s a difficult question though. A lot
relies on instinct and remembering one’s initial reaction to a scene. You only get one
chance to react like the audience, and after that it’s never the same again. Particularly
with a horror scene, it’s a combination of knowing when to hold back, ramp up the
tension, mislead the audience, and go for it flat out.
ScoreNotes: What films of the past do you think showcase some of the best examples of
horror scores?
Richard Wells: Some favorite examples: Alien, Aliens, Halloween, Scream, 28 Weeks
Later, Planet Terror, Jaws, Psycho, The Omen, Terminator.
ScoreNotes: Being based in the U.K., what is your overall perception of the current crop
of scores from Hollywood? Also, do you plan on relocating to Los Angeles in the near
future?
Richard Wells: There are always great scores coming out of Los Angeles and particu-
larly from a technical point of view. Some of the orchestration is just phenomenal.
Although I mixed Doghouse in L.A. with Mark Curry, I don’t currently have any
plans to move out there full time. Having said that, I certainly would not rule it out
if the right offer came along, but we do have the issue of moving a whole family, which
is a bit more complicated than just me. But I have to say I had a great time in L.A., and
I certainly plan to come back for more meetings and hopefully to work with Mark
again.
ScoreNotes: What excites you the most about the prospects of film composing?
Richard Wells: It is probably the journey of discovery. Starting with a blank canvas with
no idea of what to do and then finding themes and the whole art of putting a giant
jigsaw puzzle together. It’s totally consuming and, combined with the deadline and gen-
eral lack of time to think, pretty terrifying as well. The fear of failure drives one on
relentlessly to the finish line!
ScoreNotes: If you had a chance at composing a “dream project,” which orchestra
would you ideally choose for the task?
Richard Wells: It would have to be the full LSO [London Symphony Orchestra],
recorded at Air Lyndhurst.
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 Keeping Score with
31 Abel Korzeniowski

A
bel Korzeniowski has already had an interesting adventure in getting to
Hollywood. His path is literally a global trek that began in Poland where
Abel was a big fan of movies and film music growing up. His schooling and
eventual achievements led him to find a good deal of notoriety across Europe and
eventually placed him on a trajectory to Hollywood.
I’m glad he made it.
After hearing his work, I found that he brings a fresh insight to the world of films with
music that is commercially viable but also thought provoking. His first commercial
project was for the animated sci-fi fable, Battle for Terra, which he spoke to me
about during our conversation in early 2009 . . .

Abel Korzeniowski (2009)

ScoreNotes: What is the general premise of Battle for Terra, and what kind of score did
it require?
Abel Korzeniowski: Battle for Terra has a reverse alien invasion plot, so instead of ali-
ens invading Earth, it is the humans who are the aggressors and attack a peaceful alien
planet. The great thing about this plot is that it is not black and white. Both humans and
aliens, who are called Terrians, are neither fully good nor all bad. There is a very intri-
cate relation between these two worlds, which made scoring this movie even more
interesting.
What was required from the very beginning was a score that would sound different, and
which would set a unique mood for the whole movie and for the Terrians in particular.
At the same time, it had to be as functional and dramatic as a regular Hollywood score.
ScoreNotes: This definitely does not sound like a routine science-fiction movie. Was this
the first time, in fact, that you’d worked on an animated feature? If so, how did it differ
from your work on live-action films?

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202 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

Abel Korzeniowski: Usually, writing music for an animation means much more work. In a
typical animated story, everything changes very quickly. You don’t have the luxury of long
scenes; a two-minute dialogue never happens. Even if you are given a scene that is a minute
long, it will consist of six sections, and you will have to switch mood every ten seconds.
Now, with Terra, it was not a typical animated movie. It is more like Wall-E. When you
think about Pixar before Wall-E, it used to be just comedy, nothing too serious. On the
other hand, Terra is more like a live-action movie with real character development and
drama. Its 2D version premiered in Toronto in 2007, and we were very happy that a
year later, Wall-E opened up this new genre for wider audiences.
ScoreNotes: Sounds like a refreshing change of pace from the typical comedic, animated
features we’ve been seeing. I also have high hopes for your score. Can you give us some
background on your soundtrack?
Abel Korzeniowski: What I tried to achieve with the soundtrack was to contrast the two
worlds. You will notice that the world of Terrians is full of strange looking items, mostly
wooden. Technology seems to be on a very primitive level, but this is only the surface. It
is all very warm, soft type of materials, and the music for Terrians also has a very char-
acteristic orchestration that doesn’t use any harsh sounds. In fact, it doesn’t use any brass
at all. Even in the action sequences, while you can hear the action drive, it is made with a
different set of instruments than you would expect from a regular action score.
In contrast, cues related to the humans are different because they come from a position
of power and are the aggressors. They have this military vibe. This was the place for
brass instruments and much stronger and open sounds evoking power and determina-
tion. This was the basic concept behind the music.
ScoreNotes: Excellent! It seems like the director embraced your creative and accurate
approach toward the content.
Abel Korzeniowski: Absolutely. This was a rare case, when a composer had been asked
to produce a score that would sound different and that he was actually given a chance
to do so. The work was really, really rewarding, and we didn’t have a lot of fights
[laughing] on how to approach the score.
I don’t know if you know the story around it, but the movie started as a short, and this
short got some festival awards. Then the director, Aristomenis Tsirbas, found the
producers at Snoot, and they decided to make it a full feature-length project. I have
seen some clips from this short film, and it is amazing how much the original concept
has evolved and how complex the movie has become. The original short was really sad
and depressing. The feature version, even though still carrying a lot of weight, is told in
 Cha pt e r 31 Keeping Score w i t h A b e l K o r z e ni ow s k i 203

a more gracious way. There is space for both levity and graver moments. There is a lot
to like about it.
ScoreNotes: What were the recording sessions like?
Abel Korzeniowski: We had really great, full-fledged recording sessions, which was a
big achievement in itself considering that this was not a major studio production, but a
small, independent company. [With an] 80+ piece orchestra, choirs, and various drum
and solo instruments, there was an enormous amount of power in it. We were recording
at Warner Bros., which has one of the greatest scoring stages in Los Angeles. We had
some of the most incredible instruments like a seven-foot frame drum, which was used
for the scenes with the terraformer—an apocalyptic weapon used in the movie by the
Air Force. When you hear an instrument like this, it is really, really profound. By the
way, this drum was used before Terra in Transformers 1, and I think was built
specifically for that movie. We also had some very strange instruments like a glass
harmonica, an instrument consisting of a set of glass bowls tuned to the chromatic
scale. A little engine spins them around, and you press the rotating bowls with your
fingers, which have to be wet. This produced a very unique, ethereal sound. Another
interesting example was the lithophone, a kind of vibraphone, but made of stone. We
really used a lot of unusual devices to make this score sound different.
ScoreNotes: Your path to Hollywood has been an interesting one and spans multiple
countries. Can you tell us what this journey has been like for you thus far?
Abel Korzeniowski: I studied classical composition in Poland and then started writing
music for live theater, which eventually brought me to film. My first feature was Big
Animal, a stylish, black and white movie written by Krzysztof Kieslowski. For this
music, I received the “Golden Lions” for best musical score—the most prestigious film
award in Poland. After this, more projects followed. The next milestone in my career was
the new score for Fritz Lang’s Metropolis, which was a huge 147-minute live project with
a 90-piece orchestra, two choirs, and two solo voices. After doing it, I started looking for
an agent in Hollywood. Actually, I just sent e-mails to six agencies that I thought were
matching my profile. Three of them responded, asking for my reel, and a couple weeks
later, I received a phone call from Seth Kaplan of Evolution Music Partners, who is now
my agent and a great friend. And this is when the real adventure began.
ScoreNotes: As we close, I would like to say it was really great getting to chat with you
for the first time. I am definitely interested in hearing your material for this movie as
well as your future work. I sincerely wish you all the best.
Abel Korzeniowski: Thank you. It was a pleasure to talk to you.
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 Keeping Score with
32 Scott Glasgow

Used by permission.

Scott Glasgow.

A
nother of the bright, emerging talents on the Hollywood composing scene is
Scott Glasgow, a composer who brings a cross-blend of innovation and classical
fundamentals to his craft. In this in-depth interview, Scott sheds some light on
the struggles that up-and-coming composers face in today’s industry, while also touch-
ing on a varied array of insider topics that I feel many of you will find of interest . . .

Scott Glasgow (2009)

ScoreNotes: What would you say are some of the biggest hurdles that an independent
composer in today’s Hollywood has to face?

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206 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

Scott Glasgow: I’m not sure what the “biggest hurdle” is; in reality, there are many.
I think starting from the top of the list, finding the job is very difficult and based almost
entirely on friends hiring friends or contacts leading to other contacts through recom-
mendation. I don’t think I’ve sent out a single demo CD to get a job in a few years now;
it’s all through recommendations and contacts. The next challenge is getting the con-
tract signed, when most of these independent films have more producers than needed,
which leads to “decision by committee” that lasts weeks instead of hours, like I hear
some of the big studio films do.
Then there is the crush of time to get it done fast, only to have the film flop around for a
year or more trying to find distribution—“hurry up and wait” is a big part of this busi-
ness. I usually aim for four to six weeks to score a full feature but end up with either
much longer due to edits to the film or much shorter leaving a lot less sleep. Finally,
there is [the] budget, which I guess would be the biggest hurdle, which I am guessing you
are referring to. That’s where you have to try to make something happen for a tenth of
the budget a composer on a regular studio film would have, even though many of these
films look as good as big-budget films seen in theaters. They have well-recognizable
movie stars, [are] shot well, and [have] other qualities making it sometimes hard to
not think of them as a studio feature.
Also, by the end of these low budget films, they are usually completely out of money
when they get to the music. Orchestras are expensive, and that is why I end up recording
in Europe mostly right now. I don’t consider myself an “independent film composer,”
just a composer who happens to work on independent films right now, hoping some day
soon to get to the next level. My ultimate goal is to do that big summer blockbuster
that’s in every theater, everywhere!
ScoreNotes: For those who are not directly associated with the inner workings of
the business, can you provide an indication of just how competitive a field it is for
composers today?
Scott Glasgow: Oh it’s very competitive; however, as I’ve already mentioned,
friends hire friends; it’s finding the new friends or the film that is totally out of left
field that is hard—Gene Generation I found on MySpace, but that is rare. Now it
[has] changed from people getting the films to directors saying, “I heard this composer’s
demo the other day that sounded live when it wasn’t. Can you make your demos more
live-sounding like his?” Suddenly, I am researching what samples they used to make that
score; however, the guy doesn’t get hired.
Literally, there is a technology and music-programming race—who can make their
demos sound as live without being live. I think the problem with that is it will never
 Cha pt e r 32 Keeping Score w i t h S c ot t G l a s g o w 207

sound live with fake orchestra. My ears will always hear the difference. I’m not so sure
for the film makers. Many out there, especially ones who have never sat in front of a live
orchestra, can’t hear the difference. Funny thing also is that these young composers
spending weeks programming some cue don’t realize that when you have to write
100 minutes of score, you don’t have time for all that. It’s not realistic in the fast-paced
world of professional film scoring. These hyper-programming composers do more
damage than they realize with the fake orchestra demos, which will probably lead to
no independent films ever having live orchestra again and only the top 10 percent of
Hollywood having the budget to really do it right. It’ll become a world of mostly fake
orchestra, sadly, and I think most of us can really hear the difference.
ScoreNotes: Can you talk about some of the differing, creative approaches you have to
take when working on films of a smaller budget?
Scott Glasgow: A smaller budget can mean compromise in either finished sound quality
or, worse, to creative ideas, but I try not to let it do that. I think it depends on what size
of score they are trying for. A big-action sci-fi film needing a larger-than-life sound but
having the budget for nothing live is basically an impossible scenario, unless you go
Blade Runner Vangelis style, but that hardly works unless you are Vangelis! A comedy
can be dealt with using a small chamber orchestra generally.
I think I just try to stay creative regardless of budget, such as my work in Bone Dry,
which I knew was not going to have a live score; however, later I did convince the
director to get one session with an orchestra. In that score, I used a plucked cactus
and bunch of other organic sounds to fill out the sound with the fake orchestra, all
leading to the cathartic end with the large live orchestra; it gave the film a sense of a
journey, which is what I aimed for. It’s difficult when a film is temped—that is, tempo-
rary music from another film score is dropped in to create pacing or tone for the
editor—by large live orchestra film scores, then the film makers want something that
sounds like that but don’t have the budget for it! This happened to me on Patriotville—
large, live orchestral temp music that I had to re-create without an orchestra; it was an
impossible scenario, but I just did what I could with the resources I had. I sort of doubt I
will ever release a CD of that score because of it. I am proud of the music in that film,
but it just is a pale shadow of what it should have been in my ears. By the way, it is
really a charming wonderful film worth seeing. Also, it allowed me to explore my
“Goldsmith Patton and Morricone The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly” side.
ScoreNotes: What are some of your tools of the trade that you use in your studio?
Scott Glasgow: It’s all computers for all us composers now. I have two eight-core Power
Macs running tons of RAM filled with [orchestral] samples on one, and my main work
208 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

system is the other where I do more creative-type sample manipulations in addition to

tracking. This is much better than a few years ago when I was running six computers!
What a mess that was, trying to get all those computers to work daily and work
together. Wow, how technology has grown. I record live solo musicians in my studio
all the time to enhance the scores, but mostly it is all me.
The one thing I do try to do differently than some of my other composer friends is to try
and create custom sound sets for each project, even if the sounds are commercially avail-
able. I try to personalize it with effects, delays, edits . . . then save it in its own project
bank. I try never to settle for the stock sounds out of the box. I do also occasionally
record custom, live orchestra effects when I am working with an orchestra, too, so I
have a nice palette to work with that sounds very live—because it is!
ScoreNotes: For you, personally, how much of an importance do you place on innova-
tion with your music? Also, is there ever a concern about being too unique for the
formula-driven world of commercial movies?
Scott Glasgow: I think being unique is a benefit in this business. Sounding like John
Williams is the kiss of death for a new composer on the scene. Also, as you move up
in the business, why would they hire you when they can get Williams himself? No, as a
composer, you must develop sounds or chord progressions only you like to do. Too
many guys just wanna sound like John Williams—why they don’t pick Goldsmith is
a surprise to me. Even I’ve done my version of John Williams style (i.e., Robotech),
but it’s all about how you do it or how close you get to someone else’s style. There
have certainly been quite a few composers working on big films getting too close to
their models. I really try to do my own thing, but not forget what great scores have
come before me. I think it’s important to look forward but not forget or discount the
past.
I’d say, for me, my own personal innovations were developed while I was studying in
college. Music based on elements around me. As an example of that, one day seeing
clouds shifting over me in the sky reminded me of two radically different chords slowly
fading over each other (this can be heard at the opening music to Bone Dry).
ScoreNotes: What has been the most rewarding project you’ve worked on thus far in
your career?
Scott Glasgow: You know that’s hard to say since they all seem to have good moments
for me, but I think Chasing Ghosts—my first real feature for director Kyle Jackson and
released by Sony—seems to have been my best experience on so many levels. Creatively,
I think many tracks in that score really came out nice—“Interrogation” and “Karis” are
 Cha pt e r 32 Keeping Score w i t h S c ot t G l a s g o w 209

two shining moments for me. Also, the film has been the best received of all my films so
far—well in France especially. Finally, it was really my first break as a film composer. I
certainly had done a ton of work before then, even a feature when I lived in San Fran-
cisco, but it was my first “real” film, in my mind. Also Kyle is a good friend, so working
with him was so easy, and [it] didn’t seem as complicated as the other films have been.
ScoreNotes: You’ve recently made a foray into writing music for comedies. How much
of a departure was that for you from what you’ve been used to working on, and is it a
genre that appeals to you?
Scott Glasgow: I think I feel more at home musically in dramas, sci-fi, or thrillers, but it
is a welcome change of pace. I also feel I’m still finding my comedy voice and realize
there are some musical clichés that simply really work well in comedy scenes [such as]
the pizzicato strings or silly bassoon lines. I keep hoping I will discover an utterly new
way to score comedies—that is, if the film makers are open to that—most are not; they
wanna sell their film, and most want their film to look and sound like other successful
comedies. It’s less about being unique, as in a sci-fi film, and more about being a func-
tion of selling a film.
There’s also a surprising perception that somehow a comedy score is less important than
say an action-fantasy score. It’s hard to even get a CD release of a comedy score, even
with a large live orchestra recording—probably due to lack of sales versus an action
movie CD release. I’ve also noticed when a comedy movie gets reviewed, rarely is the
score mentioned, whereas an action-adventure film with an interesting score will almost
always gets some sort of mention. Comedy scores seem to get ignored, sadly, but serve
just as important [a] role in films. I’m not sure I understand it, but I know I would never
want to be pigeonholed creatively into comedy films only, as a few composers in
Hollywood seem to have been. Then, again, working is better than not working!
ScoreNotes: Can you describe your relationship with the soundtrack labels, and, specif-
ically, might you explain how involved they are in promoting your work?
Scott Glasgow: Well, as I’ve said already, relationships are everything in this business,
from getting the film, to working with musicians, to working with the labels. I’ve had a
few fellow composers ask how I am able to get my scores released when so many other
composers struggle to, and I always say, “Because I’ve been lucky enough to meet the
people at the labels.” For instance, I met Doug Fake [Intrada] in Europe when I was record-
ing Hack! and he was there to record Spellbound. Robert Townson [Varese Sarabande], I
met years ago on a session for another composer, and we became friends, so I just started
sending him my scores; luckily, one day he listened. Mikael Carlsson [MSM], I met online,
210 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

and he approached me about releasing Chasing Ghosts, and we became friends—he even
scored a scene for me in Toxic when I was too busy.
Another aspect is that I think you need to have film music that works well on CD.
An all-ambient score probably will not get released. The labels are a business, and
they don’t want to put out CDs that are less likely of selling. The truth is soundtrack
CDs don’t sell very well anyway. They hardly make enough money to pay for the
expense to manufacture them; there are quite a lot of costs—from mastering, to art-
work, to manufacturing and distribution—that are well beyond the cost of the disc.
As for promoting, I don’t think they do much—labels like Varese Sarabande just
have a following, where people just buy anything they release. They do have clout to
get it into stores, and it gives the release a little more importance to have it released on a
record label versus self-releasing a album.
I would say [that] almost all the interviews, CD signings, or other promotions I usually
instigate myself, but without the CD release, I doubt these things would happen. The
CD reviews on the various Web sites are totally up to the person who runs the site.
There are some sites that simply do not have a single mention of any of my five CDs.
There’s nothing I can do with those.
ScoreNotes: With so many media options to choose from, what would you say is the
best method for a film composer to promote his or her work?
Scott Glasgow: iTunes and other digital distributions are the future of music media—
and movies for that matter, with sites like Hulu streaming movies at DVD quality for
free. At this point, I think record labels making physical products to sit in a warehouse
waiting for people to buy them is not a good business plan. With successful bands like
NIN [Nine Inch Nails] giving away their new CD online for free, it would seem the
future is here. Ironically, my first CD [Chasing Ghosts], which was a digital download
only, is my least-known work and sold the least. Soundtrack collectors seem to not like
digital downloads of CDs. I guess that is the “collector” mentality—like collecting
comics, digital is just not the same. However, personally, I prefer digital versions of
albums and listening on iPod.
As for other film composers and how they should promote their work, I’d say use what-
ever means to get the scores out there—CD Baby is as good as a digital download by a
record label, except it loses the exposure that comes with that label; self-promotion just
doesn’t have the weight of a record label. More importantly, composers need to focus
on getting the work; the CDs will happen automatically if they just find a way into a
good film and write good music.
 Cha pt e r 32 Keeping Score w i t h S c ot t G l a s g o w 211

ScoreNotes: Who are some of the composers working today that you most admire and
why?
Scott Glasgow: I am always inspired by the composers who keep themselves fresh or
reinvent themselves. John Williams, even after all those scores, always surprises me. The
chords he uses are wonderfully unique and fresh. I’m tired of hearing the same chords,
mostly entirely diatonic, and they go right where I expect them to go in. The aggressive
sound of Elliot Goldenthal still inspires as does the quirkiness of Danny Elfman. Then
there are Alan Silvestri and James Horner, who are always doing great work. Jerry
Goldsmith is a huge influence on me—possibly the composer who inspired me to go
into music years ago. These are at the top of their game because they are all doing
fresh, interesting work with great musicians and great production values.
Some of the younger but not newer guys that get my attention are guys like Marco
Beltrami, Thomas Newman, Chris Young, and Brian Tyler. Then there are quite a
few new composers of my generation working today that catch my ear—Ryan Shore,
Bear McCreary, Christopher Lennertz, Atli Orvarsson, Jeff Grace, Ceiri Torjussen,
Gordy Habb are all doing really interesting work.
Finally, I have to mention the composers who do not work in film but do “classical
music” that inspire me—Peteris Vasks, Michael Torke, Christopher Rouse, Arvo Part,
Michael Daugherty, and James MacMillian change the way I think of my work. I’d say I
listen to more modern classical composers than I do film scores.
ScoreNotes: If you were looking to introduce new listeners to your music, which two
soundtracks would you recommend that they start off with?
Scott Glasgow: You know I really hope everyone gets a chance to hear Chasing Ghosts
since it is some of my best work, but unfortunately the digital-only release makes it not
really a contender for this question [Note: the contract has been signed to release Chas-
ing Ghosts as a physical CD someday]. To answer your question, The Gene Generation
is a very unique score and the newest release, so I’d have to say that one is my first
suggestion to listeners. As for my second suggestion, Bone Dry, since it also is a unique
score with the cactus and the [symphonic attributes]. In many of my scores, the final
couple tracks are really worth listening to—it seems my CDs have a balance of opening
and ending on a strong note. Some of my best tracks are at the ends of these CDs.
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 Keeping Score with
33 Simon J. Hunter

Used by permission.

Simon Hunter.

S
imon J. Hunter is a highly talented and versatile composer who has a clear
understanding about what the needs of today’s fast-paced mediums require.
Having composed music featured on television and in theaters, Simon’s unique
and flexible approach has helped him gain the type of expertise that more and more
producers are turning to for their projects.
Here, we talk about his contributions for shows like CSI, the music he’s created for
commercial film trailers, and other topics of interest . . .

Simon J. Hunter (2009)

ScoreNotes: Please tell us about yourself and how it was that you landed in the music
business.

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214 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

Simon Hunter: I grew up in Melbourne, Australia. I played in bands from a young age
around Melbourne. After high school, I was awarded a scholarship to study at Berklee
College of Music in Boston. After being there for a couple of years, I moved out to
Los Angeles and got the first job I could find at a recording studio, to learn how
to record music. After working there for a while, I started making recordings and col-
laborating with artists and eventually started getting asked to produce bands, write
music for film/TV, and eventually score TV shows, films, and now video games.
ScoreNotes: What has it been like to contribute your music to such a successful, ongoing
television series like CSI?
Simon Hunter: I’m very happy with the fact that all three of the CSIs have found my
music to be useful to their shows. I really enjoy my music being part of such a high-
quality and highly visible drama. As contemporary music has evolved, so has the sound
of the show, so it’s never static. I like to stay ahead of the curve generally, so I have been
lucky enough to have created what they need in many cases!
ScoreNotes: Your music has been noted as defining some of the key moments on the
show. Can you tell us about the type of research and planning that goes into writing
music for pivotal scenes?
Simon Hunter: Generally, I watch a lot of TV and see a lot of films and listen to heaps of
music. This really informs my work and keeps it current. For a show like CSI, currency
and emotional content seem to be very important.
ScoreNotes: Why do you think American audiences are so captivated by crime dramas
like CSI?
Simon Hunter: I couldn’t say for sure! But I can say that the CSI shows have some of the
best production value of any of the shows on TV at the moment. They’re constantly
upping the ante on what they’re doing on TV. People tend to like the scientific, proce-
dural type shows, and when they include strong story and characters, that makes them
even more compelling. Add to that the awesome music soundtrack by the composer and
the use of source music, and it’s a really compelling show.
ScoreNotes: Outside of the television venue, can you tell us about some of the musical
artists you have worked with thus far in your career?
Simon Hunter: I can’t name names, but one major rock diva I worked with ended up
completely trashing the recording studio I was working at while on a rampage, with
furniture smashed, drug paraphernalia scattered throughout the studio, and band
members pretty much running for their lives. Other artists were really professional,
and they are the ones I gravitated towards. One of my favorite projects was with the
 Ch ap t er 33 Keeping Score w i t h Si mon J. H un t e r 215

producer Hugh Padgham, who was incredibly down to earth and fun to work with, for
such a prolific guy.
ScoreNotes: What are some of your favorite instruments or tools that you like to
employ?
Simon Hunter: I love my Yamaha upright piano. It has this really dark, emotional sound
that I just can’t get enough of. When I got it, I tried a bunch of other pianos out, and it
was the darkest, moodiest, most sentimental, and expressive instrument I found. When
I add it in a track, it really breathes the life into it way more than synths or samples.
ScoreNotes: Generally speaking, where do you think the future of television and film
music scoring is headed? Do you foresee a landscape of continued innovation on the
horizon?
Simon Hunter: Productions left and right seem to be cutting costs. So the big, high-
priced gigs seem to be reducing, which is a struggle for some composers. I feel like
the people who will really shine moving forward are the quick, adaptable composers
that can come up with new ways of making the process more efficient, while still keep-
ing the quality of music at the maximum.
ScoreNotes: To follow up on that point, can you relate to us the level of preparation a
composer must have in order to be quick, efficient, and adaptable?
Simon Hunter: Definitely the more real instruments you can play and the more experi-
enced you are with different styles of music on a deeper level will set you apart from the
rest, as a composer. I think if you are asked to do something “impossible” in no time, it
becomes more possible if you can just quickly play it yourself instead of trying to
program something to sound real.
ScoreNotes: What would you say is the most exciting thing about working in television
for you?
Simon Hunter: For me, the most exciting things about working in TV are the fast dead-
lines and intensity and speed. When I’m working on a show under an impossible
deadline, I come alive. There’s nothing like creating 30 to 40 minutes of music to picture
in a couple of days and sending it out as fast as possible. I love the challenge.
ScoreNotes: What do you feel is the key principle to writing effective and impactful
music for film trailers?
Simon Hunter: In movie trailers, it seems like there is a set structure of the piece that
must fit pretty well with the overall structure of the trailer. Most of them start out small
or wide and empty and, of course, end up huge and epic. If the track can build up
216 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

consistently throughout the piece and still end on a very strong point, without ever
feeling like it’s going backwards or down in intensity, then it will be a winner.
ScoreNotes: The popularity of trailer music as a stand-alone listening experience is
growing more and more with listeners these days. Can you comment on that developing
trend?
Simon Hunter: I absolutely love the drama of the best movie trailers. Some of the better
trailer music is so epic and huge, and I think that is really entertaining to most people.
Also, it’s a very popular and commercial form of the film score genre, so theoretically
most people can sit down for a two-minute piece and get into it without investing as
much time as they would [diving] into a full-length movie score. It’s more accessible,
and oftentimes the drama is more obvious. I think that’s a great aspect of the genre.
 Keeping Score with
34 Assaf Rinde

Photo by Adam Meir.

Assaf Rinde.

T
o be considered as a Composer of the Future, I believe the individual should
have a masterful grasp on the classic, symphonic attributes of film scoring as
well as a keen handle on the modern tools currently available today. Assaf
Rinde certainly meets these criteria and then some.
Assaf’s style combines the best of both worlds: the influences of classic-era film music
and the modern inspirations of today’s sound. When brought together, as he did for a
score like Kill Zone, it’s easy to see why this talented composer is someone you’re sure
to hear more from in the not too distant future . . .

Assaf Rinde (2009)

ScoreNotes: Please tell us about the type of music you were exposed to during your
childhood and what impression it made on you.
Assaf Rinde: I grew up in Israel and was exposed to almost every kind of music possible.
Israel is one of those places, a bit like LA, where there are so many different cultures and
backgrounds meeting together and creating a wonderful mix.

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218 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

I was exposed to everything from Jewish and Arabic traditional music to jazz, pop, rock,
Hollywood soundtracks, European classic, modern music, and many other types. Grow-
ing up in such an environment made me feel like I could use whatever style of music
blended with any element possible from different genres without feeling like I’m out of
focus. As a child, I always added groove elements to Bach’s music and other elements,
and I believe that kind of stylistic freedom attracted me and subsequently drove me to
film music.
ScoreNotes: At what point in your life did you feel that being a composer was a path
you wanted to be on?
Assaf Rinde: My first real composition was written when I was 11 years old, and I had
already been playing the piano since the age of three, so it was very clear to me that
music was what I really wanted to do with my life. I think it was around the age of 15 or
16 when I noticed for the first time the real power of film music, and that, together with
my continued love for music of all genres and music composition, locked and solidified
my life’s ambitions.
ScoreNotes: Your versatility and knowledge enable you to work on a variety of projects
in different capacities, such as composing music for blockbuster movie trailers, writing
original scores for independent films, helping to develop game soundtracks, and more!
Can you tell us a little bit about the valuable experience you have gained thus far in the
entertainment industry?
Assaf Rinde: One of the things that I was so attracted to in this field was the fact you
“can,” or more suitably stated, “have to” do more than one thing while working on a
project. You have to serve much more than just the composer function.
On a typical movie project, the composer should also produce, perform, orchestrate,
conduct, mix, and edit the entire score. On bigger movie projects, most composers
will have a big team working with them to support all these countless occupations. I
was involved in almost every aspect of these various roles before, as well as working as
part of the team for other composers as a producer, orchestrator, mixer, and conductor.
As a composer, I was involved with writing music for movies like Nailed, Kill Zone,
Mandingo in a Box, as well as a few documentaries and animation projects among
many other film projects. I’ve been writing a lot lately for movie trailers such as Race
to Witch Mountain, Starship Troopers 3, Tinkerbell & Her Friends Saving Energy, The
Orphan, and many others. In the videogame world, I’ve collaborated with such com-
posers as Inon Zur, David Kates, Mark Morgan and have written for a few videogame
projects as well.
 Ch ap t er 34 Keeping Score w i t h A s s a f R i n de 219

Although I started to compose many years ago, I have actually started working as an
orchestrator for several high-profile projects in Europe as well as composing the music
for short movies along with a few concert pieces.
ScoreNotes: Your work on the independent film Kill Zone made for quite an intelligent,
highly stylized soundtrack. What were some of the cross-genre themes you looked to get
across in the music for this score?
Assaf Rinde: Kill Zone was lots of fun to work on. One of the first things we locked in
on this project was the fact that it is a western created as a tribute to Sergio Leone’s
westerns, but with a much more modern feel to it. The director, Vitor Santos, wanted
the Ennio Morricone feel with the music, and when I started getting deeper into the
writing process, I felt that it was a really great instinctive decision on his part. On
the other hand, I knew it would have to be much more modern musically because of
the contemporary feel and look of the movie. Once we had established the musical
direction for the score, we started to concentrate on the more hidden elements in the
story, so what we ended up with is more of a modern baroque western drama movie/
soundtrack, and I think it works for this particular movie.
ScoreNotes: Can you shed some light on your time commitment and the sacrifices you
made while bringing Kill Zone to completion?
Assaf Rinde: Kill Zone didn’t have much of a budget to begin with, but the movie itself
was so interesting to me as a composer that I just had to take it on. Being such a low-
budget project made me go for some different solutions musically that I wouldn’t have
thought of without being cornered with budget decisions. Most of the score was per-
formed electronically, but there are some key moments in the score that I just couldn’t
let go of without the live touch. I brought in my friend Sean Hennessy to perform the
trumpet lines; another colleague of mine, Israel Klich, who played guitar; and my wife,
Iris Malkin, who performed all the vocal lines. The live component was used to take the
emotional impact to the next level, since there is only so much that samplers can actu-
ally do. I must say I was very lucky with having such amazing friends/musicians around
me, and they helped me tremendously in giving this score a real signature sound.
The schedule on Kill Zone was a bit hectic. We started spotting and scoring the movie,
and after about two reels in, we stopped for almost six months. The main reason was
that it got into post-production with almost no money at all, so every step forward took
much longer than it should have. But that also gave us the time to really evaluate every
single detail, which you usually don’t have the time for with a normal scoring schedule.
So after this long break, we got back into scoring, which, on and off, took over a year to
complete.
220 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

ScoreNotes: Who are some of the composers you have worked with in the business, and
what are some of the valuable lessons you’ve learned from them?
Assaf Rinde: Along the way, I’ve been working with so many different composers in
Israel, Europe, and the U.S. I’ve worked a lot with Christopher Young, Andrea Morri-
cone, Inon Zur, Rafi Kadishson, Uri Hodorov, and many others. I’ve learned a lot from
each one of them.
My work with Christopher Young gave me the opportunity to work on some of the
biggest movies ever made, like Spiderman 3, Ghost Rider, The Uninvited, Drag Me
to Hell, Untraceable, and more. Working on these really big movies showed me how
tight some of the schedules are, how many people are actually involved in the decision-
making, what goes on screen and what’s not, as well as the power of a real team effort.
With Inon Zur, I had the opportunity to be involved with the music production of some
of the biggest videogame titles, and that has shown me a different perspective and
approach to telling a story, musically.
But at the end of the day, you really have the opportunity to explore what methods
work for you and what approaches are not working, and you can learn from other
people’s experience as to what to do or not on a project.

Photo by Tomer Stolz.

As a Composer of the Future, Assaf Rinde is well suited to conduct orchestras for use in any
medium.
 Ch ap t er 34 Keeping Score w i t h A s s a f R i n de 221

ScoreNotes: What would you say are some of your most valuable composing tools that
you use, and how much do you relish exploring new technologies for use in your craft?
Assaf Rinde: I have two writing environments that I use, based on the project’s needs.
The piano is one of my favorites because this is a great place for me to experiment and
improvise, and this is where I develop most of my themes and elements, melodically. My
other composing environment is the computer and all the studio gear around it, and this
is where I finalize my compositions. The piano hasn’t changed much since Bach’s days,
(except for a few Yamaha revolutionary models), but the technology on the electronic
side of the studio is constantly changing. I’m really into all the tech gadgets, and I do
consider myself a “gearhead,” but at the same time, I’m trying to remind myself that the
gear isn’t the important component of my studio. It is the musical idea that makes the
difference at the end of the day. Every day I learn some new programs and new
approaches in music making and producing. I keep up with the technologies, since I
feel that once you’ve stopped for even less than a year, you are already far behind,
and it might be very hard to catch up with everything you’ve missed. I’m constantly
exploring new technologies and new composing techniques and environments every
day. I must say I feel really comfortable in both worlds, classic and tech, and the con-
stant battle between the two keeps me focused and creative.
ScoreNotes: What is your opinion on the state of videogame music today, and how
encouraged are you about the opportunities that the medium has to offer?
Assaf Rinde: Videogames are one of the best places today for composers to make a
living composing music. At the same time, it is one of the only avenues in music
where you can compose music that is very close in its concept to concert music, since
most videogame scoring is not done to picture but to a storyline or state of emotion of
the game’s characters. Another thing that is really nice about videogames is the simple
fact that you can be based almost anywhere and still be constantly working in this field
because much of the communication between composers and the developers happens
over the Internet and phone. When you work on a movie, usually you need to be at the
same place where the post-production takes place, which usually limits the possibilities
to LA, London, or New York.
I was already involved in so many ways in the music production side of some of the
biggest videogames out there, and I’m open to any idea of composing music for a good
storyline whether it is onscreen, on stage, or in a videogame. I actually prefer to keep
switching media since it keeps me really fresh creatively.
This is also why I’m so deep into films and videogames. The fact you can compose a big
action score this month and a real drama score following that, or sometimes at the very
222 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

same time, makes it all much more attractive to me. I need this constant change in order
to keep myself as inventive as possible.
ScoreNotes: On a bit of a side note, I often notice that videogame projects cannot be
discussed or promoted until, essentially, the time of their release. Why is there such
secrecy associated with the videogame titles?
Assaf Rinde: The videogame world is always running against time in terms of develop-
ing new technologies. The videogame companies are not only developing the content of
the game, but also developing graphic engines, audio engines, and interactive engines
and tools, [such as the] Wii remote or the guitars for Guitar Hero, so they want to be far
ahead of everybody in terms of releasing their new trend to the market. The guys from
Nintendo who created Wii, for example, enjoyed the power of being first in doing some-
thing that revolutionary, and of course having this power translates easily into money
and opportunities for their company. So working on a new revolutionary graphic engine
that will show everything onscreen faster and without using up your entire computer’s
CPU power is something very delicate that you don’t want anyone to know of before the
right time. The same happens with the game’s storyline, the character design, and the
animation, and other aspects of the game’s content.
ScoreNotes: Have you been involved with any projects where extra measures were taken
to safeguard the secrecy of the film?
Assaf Rinde: On almost every film I’ve ever worked on, I had to sign a nondisclosure
agreement that basically forbids me from talking about certain aspects of the production
with anyone besides my team. All the film content, [both the] audio and visuals, is being
developed between so many people, and since there are so many people involved, it is
really hard to keep all of it to secrecy, so the production companies have lots of different
agreements to protect themselves from information-leaking, but they have to addition-
ally use some other techniques in protecting their investment. Some production compa-
nies will give the entire film content a different “working title” from the final movie’s
name, just to protect their property in case someone gets access to these tapes/scripts/
hard drives; the same often applies with videogames. There are so many movies that are
using new technologies and effects that change the landscape of the industry, and every-
body in these productions is doing everything possible to not give up any of this revo-
lutionary and valuable information before the official release date. Think about The
Matrix and about all the movie productions that tried to follow this technology in mov-
ies that came thereafter. Can you imagine what could have happened if this revolution-
ary technology was being used before the official release? That could have taken all the
magic out of the original Matrix release.
 Ch ap t er 34 Keeping Score w i t h A s s a f R i n de 223

ScoreNotes: Be it in film, games, or television, where do you hope you can make the
biggest impact as a composer?
Assaf Rinde: As a composer, my real goal is to touch people with my music. I love
writing music for different media. With my music, I’m trying to let you feel and expe-
rience something that you can’t describe with words, but you can just feel it without
processing/thinking about it too much. I’m always trying to communicate and connect
with people’s hearts rather through people’s minds, because I believe this is where every-
body’s truth really exists. Writing for the concert stage, film, TV, or videogames is all
about telling a story musically and emotionally. Although the environments and tech-
niques being used are different, you’re still telling a story, so my goal is not really to
choose which medium is the right one for me, but to find the way to touch as many
people as I can through my music.
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 Keeping Score with
35 Boris Elkis

Photo by Ree Kadivar.

Boris Elkis.

I
like where this is going. Boris Elkis’s first solo scoring assignment was for David
Twohy’s thriller, A Perfect Getaway, and it was a debut that he capitalized on. In
his work, I felt that he lent a sense of freshness to an overworked genre, a style of
music that foreshadows a great career in the making.
Having worked with veteran composer Graeme Revell, a collaboration we discuss in the
interview, Boris took hold of the opportunity that A Perfect Getaway presented and
placed himself, formidably, on the film scoring map.
An interesting back story, a relevant talent, and another composer to keep an eye (or
ear) on . . .

Boris Elkis (2009)

ScoreNotes: When did you first meet director David Twohy, and what were some of the
steps that led you to the scoring assignment for A Perfect Getaway?

225
226 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

Boris Elkis: Graeme Revell introduced me to David. He scored the last three David Twohy
pictures and originally was approached by David as a composer for A Perfect Getaway
but could not do it due to scheduling conflicts, so he passed the torch to me. Graeme
arranged a meeting between the three of us and worked as a music producer on the film.
ScoreNotes: Please tell us about the type of emotions your score conveys for A Perfect
Getaway. I found that the contrast between the warm tones of the early tracks and the
suspense of the darker cues made for an engaging listen.
Boris Elkis: I was fortunate to be able to write a score that transforms and takes an
emotional journey. With a film score being a by-product of the story, a composer is
not always afforded the opportunity to cover a lot of musical ground. From a dramatic
perspective, it is always good to be able to start and finish at the extreme opposites. The
film starts out on a positive note, then things progressively turn for the worse, and the
music reflects that transition as it goes from happy to menacing to terrifying. At its core,
the film is a romantic thriller, as it centers around the main couple (Steve Zahn and
Milla Jovovich), who are on their honeymoon, so there is a strong romantic element
to the score. The romantic chemistry of the main characters and the breathtaking beauty
of the Napali coast inspired the music and gave it the warmth and the scale.
ScoreNotes: How important was it to engage the audience with themes that were bold
and subtle?
Boris Elkis: The film plays upon the genre expectations of the audience. The film is
cleverly written and follows its own internal rhythm, as it takes turns when the audience
least expects it. This is not a typical formulaic thriller, as there is quite a bit of character
development. The film’s tension comes from subtle things, like double entendres
between the main couples. The task and the challenge were to guide the audience with-
out giving too much away. I concentrated on three main themes, so the score is basically
based on them. There is a romantic theme, killers theme, and the island—which later in
the film becomes a battleground for survival—has its own leitmotif. I’m a strong
believer in the use of melodies in film scores, and I think of this as the best all-around
tool in a composer’s toolbox.
ScoreNotes: I honestly felt that you brought forward an original and fresh take on the
horror/suspense genre. Given that Hollywood productions often guide their scores
toward that of temp music, how important is it for you to maintain a personal signature
on the music you write?
Boris Elkis: With film scoring being a collaborative process, a lot of factors come into
play that determine a score’s final outcome. I was lucky to work with David Twohy; he
 Ch ap t er 35 Keeping Score with Boris Elkis 227

is a truly creative individual who instinctively knows how to value and nourish creativ-
ity in others. David allowed me be creative, and he was incredibly supportive of me
throughout the process. And that is not always the case, as at times a composer ends
up having to please several people involved, and the results often end up being different
from the composer’s original creative vision.
As for the temp track, the use of temp music is not going to go away. I think it is a
valuable tool, as it provides insights into the director’s dramatic intentions. Part of a
composer’s skill is to be able to interpret the temp at the dramatic level, without copying
it musically. It is a cerebral process, and it requires analytical skills and acute dramatic
sense.
As far as the personal signature is concerned, that is for the listeners to say. I honestly do
not know where the creative process comes from. The process is subliminal, it’s intu-
itive, and it is divine. Some composers seem to have that unique quality more prevalent
in their works. I don’t think they know how to write any other way.
ScoreNotes: As one of your first major solo scores, did you find anything about your
work on the production side of A Perfect Getaway to be particularly challenging or
surprising?
Boris Elkis: I’ve been a big fan of David Twohy. Arrival and Pitch Black are some of my
favorite movies, so at first it was a little intimidating to be in his company. I was pleas-
antly surprised by the creative leeway David afforded to me. Also, Graeme Revell,
whom I consider a close personal friend, vouched for me. That upped the stakes for
me emotionally. I did not want to let him down.
ScoreNotes: Can you tell us how productive it was working with Graeme Revell, and
when it was that he first noticed you?
Boris Elkis: Graeme was a featured speaker at a Film Music Network event. After the
event, a long line of aspiring composers had formed—myself included—with everyone
trying to pass their demo CDs on to Graeme.
A couple of years later, I got a call from Graeme, saying he liked my demo and needed
some help, and eventually it led to bigger things. Working with Graeme has been a
wonderful experience, as he’s been a great mentor and a big influence on me. Having
scored almost a hundred films, Graeme has developed very keen dramatic sensibilities.
His creative and intellectual capacity never ceases to amaze me.
ScoreNotes: Preceding even that, can you tell us what it was like to grow up in Moscow
while having aspirations of being a film composer?
228 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

Boris Elkis: Growing up, I was one of those painfully shy kids. Going to the movies was a
form of escape for me. Back then in Russia, we did not have the latest movies playing in
theaters, so I remember watching Some Like It Hot—I must have seen that movie a dozen
times. Every time I watched it, I was overcome by a feeling of joy. As I got older, I remem-
ber going to see political thrillers like Three Days of the Condor. Watching them made me
question the political system we had in Russia at the time. I think films have an incredible
power. One good film can alter society’s consciousness. Russian government knew that;
that’s why they had an iron-grip censorship on films from the West. I always thought,
what a privilege it would be to be involved in a medium that has the power to change lives.
ScoreNotes: What composers, be it classical or in the arena of film music, have inspired
you the most?
Boris Elkis: Russia is a country rich in culture and musical history, with many great
composers. My favorites were Igor Stravinsky, Dmitri Shostakovich, Sergey Prokofiev,
and, above all, Alfred Schnittke. If you are not familiar with Alfred Schnittke, I recom-
mend that you give him a listen. He was particularly influential on me because he mixed
styles from different time periods, which is essentially what film music has evolved to.
From the concert music arena, Arvo Part, Michael Nyman, George Crumb, and Steve
Reich have also been influential on me. Growing up, I quite enjoyed the progressive
rock movement, and I was an avid King Crimson fan. In film music, Bernard Hermann
takes the crown for me. He was actually an influence on me for this score. There are a
lot of talented composers working today. In all fairness to the film composers that are
still living, this subject merits a separate discussion.
ScoreNotes: Please tell us about the soundtrack release for A Perfect Getaway and what
listeners can expect from the album presentation.
Boris Elkis: I would say to expect the unexpected. This score is a mixture of different
styles, as I wanted to keep the music evolving to make things less predictable. Main
themes are the backbone of the score, so they keep it cohesive. The orchestra is used
as another color in a rich palette of sounds, so sometimes it disappears and other ele-
ments take over. There is a strong island element to the score, so I used native flutes and
percussion. Basically, it is a modern score with a strong melodic underpinning.
ScoreNotes: As we look ahead to the rest of the year and beyond, what are some future
opportunities you plan on exploring?
Boris Elkis: With A Perfect Getaway being my first major score, my future opportuni-
ties are somewhat contingent upon the reception of the film and the score. As of now,
I’m up for several projects, but nothing has been penned down as of yet. Ask me again in
a few months.
 Keeping Score with
36 Clinton Shorter

Used by permission.

Clinton Shorter.

O
ne of the more popular movies from 2009 is Neill Blomkamp’s modern-day
science fiction tale, District 9. Produced by Peter Jackson, the film took hold
of the top spot at the box office in its opening week and was greeted with
positive feedback from the majority of viewers and critics who experienced the saga.
Equal parts documentary, sci-fi, and drama, District 9 was a challenging project to
score given the film’s wildly diverse themes and structure. However, it was an assign-
ment that gifted composer Clinton Shorter was duly ready for . . .

229
230 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

Clinton Shorter (2009)

ScoreNotes: District 9 appears to be an original and most welcome type of science fic-
tion movie. What kind of score did this film require?
Clinton Shorter: It ended up being a very dark, percussive score. It was quite a hybrid of
acoustic and electric instruments. We spent about three weeks experimenting with dif-
ferent types of sounds and trying to get our palette together. After that, we nailed it, and
it was full steam ahead.
ScoreNotes: Were you going for more of a raw, visceral experience?
Clinton Shorter: Yeah, Neill [Blomkamp] pretty much had two key words: raw and
dark. That was basically all he was looking for most times. He really wanted to keep
this as African as possible, but generally the music and instruments of the southern part
of the continent are quite positive and happy. We really had issues, specifically with the
drums—there just weren’t any that were big and dark enough for him. So we had to
take a lot of liberties and just go with some larger taiko drums, artificial drums, and that
kind of thing, just to give it what he was looking for. The other issue was with the lead
instrument; we tried so many different things, and in the end, it just came down to
vocals as the only thing that carried it for us. So the only key elements that were African
left in there were some smaller percussion and the vocals.
ScoreNotes: It’s really a matter of just finding out what fits musically for a movie like
this.
Clinton Shorter: Absolutely. And really it’s set in Africa, and there’s an underlying
apartheid theme, but it’s an action/sci-fi film. We decided not to try and treat this
like it was some sort of musical study on African music because it just wasn’t going
to work. But we sorted it out over those three weeks, and I think the sound of it
works pretty well with the picture.
ScoreNotes: What are some of the unique directions that the film’s storyline will take
audiences in, do you think?
Clinton Shorter: The first act is primarily a documentary, which is really interesting and
posed some interesting challenges for me. For the first little while, I kept scoring a lot of
it, and we were having lots of problems. In the end, I finally figured out what he was
looking for, and it was that he just didn’t want anything “scored.” Nothing was needed
to be accented; he didn’t want me framing any dialogue or anything; he wanted it to be
treated just like a documentary where you would literally just move the fader up and
down. So I basically just did some blanket score and rhythm tracks over the first act,
 Cha pt e r 36 Keeping Score with Clinton Shorter 231

and as the film became more cinematic and dramatic, we introduced more of the orches-
tra for the more heroic moments and actually scored scenes.
ScoreNotes: Nice to hear about a movie actually building up toward something these
days!
Clinton Shorter: [Laughing] True. Fair enough.
ScoreNotes: Was this the first time you had worked with the director Neill Blomkamp?
Clinton Shorter: No, I’ve known Neill for a good seven or eight years. I was first intro-
duced to him when he was probably twenty-one or twenty-two. I had a buddy that was
working at a CG facility, and Neill was there, and everybody said he was going to be a
superstar. I was introduced to him and saw a bunch of his reels, and they were phenom-
enal. I ended up doing a couple of commercials for him, and I ended up doing the short,
Alive in Joburg, and that was the thing that Peter Jackson saw. So that’s how the rela-
tionship started, and it’s been going strong ever since.
ScoreNotes: And speaking of Mr. Jackson, how advantageous is it for District 9 to have
Peter Jackson’s credentials attached to it?
Clinton Shorter: Well, obviously it’s incredibly advantageous. The following he has and
the talent that goes along with it can do nothing but really help a film. But the one thing
that people may not realize was just how much leeway he gave Neill; he really let Neill
make his own film here. I mean if you think about it, we’ve got a first-time feature
director—Neill had done lots of commercials and shorts, but this was the first feature
he had done. A first-time screenplay writer in Terri Tatchell. We had a director of pho-
tography, Trent Opaloch, who had done only commercials to that point and was Neill’s
guy. We had a first-time actor. So it was quite funny because myself and the editor,
Julian Clarke, were really almost like the elder statesmen on the show. It was quite
funny, even though neither of us had done a show of this magnitude either. But it’s
just a real testament to Peter Jackson and his belief that there are talented people out
there that can get the job done that are outside the system. So, yeah, it was really
refreshing, and we were really lucky.
ScoreNotes: Do you think the industry could use more of that independent spirit in an
era where sequel-mania and comic book movies are running rampant?
Clinton Shorter: Sure, I think so. And I think you’re going to see more of it with costs
coming down and less money being available to make the bigger shows. It’s going to
force people to actually find shows that can be made for less. Like it or loathe it, it’s just
232 Keeping Score: Interviews with the Composers of the Future

the way it is. But you know, there are tons of talented people out there who don’t get a
shot, so I absolutely hope there’s more of it.
ScoreNotes: Getting back to the music, can you tell us about the planned soundtrack
release of District 9?
Clinton Shorter: Yes, Sony closed a deal to release the soundtrack on iTunes and
Amazon.com. It’s very exciting to have it released; I hope people enjoy it.
ScoreNotes: Can you tell us about your background in TV as it led up to your work in
movies?
Clinton Shorter: I spent quite a few years assisting a local composer in Canada by the
name of Terry Frewer. I think we worked on about three hundred episodes of TV. He
was primarily a television composer, and he did some features and some movies of the
week. That’s where I learned everything that had to do with how to get in and out
gracefully with music and when and where to have it. I learned a ton from Terry.
ScoreNotes: What are some of the goals that you’ve set for yourself as a composer in
this entertainment business? What are you setting your sights on next?
Clinton Shorter: As always, I just try to work on shows that challenge me and that
people are going to want to watch. It’s really just about being on projects that I
enjoy working on and especially with people that I enjoy working with, people that
care. I’ve done shows where people didn’t really care about the product so much.
You know, you get paid, but there’s not a whole lot else that goes with it. That’s not
why I got into this business in the first place. It’s a lot of fun when you’re actually doing
it. So, yeah, I just look for gigs that are fun, well-written, and with good people.
ScoreNotes: At the time of this interview, District 9 is about to debut nationally. How
do you think sci-fi fans will receive this picture?
Clinton Shorter: Well, I’m a big sci-fi fan, and even if I wasn’t working on this show, I
would have been lining up to see it. When I saw the first cut back in January, the first
thing I said to Neill, Julian, and Terri was, “I’m telling you right now, this is the type of
movie my buddies and I would kill to go see.” It’s a blast, a ton of fun. It’s not exactly
what you would expect.
ScoreNotes: I also think they staged the trailers cleverly without giving away too much.
It doesn’t reveal everything like so many trailers do these days.
Clinton Shorter: Absolutely. Neill had talked about the same thing. They had to recut
and recut because he felt they were giving away too much. There’s enough eye candy in
 Cha pt e r 36 Keeping Score with Clinton Shorter 233

there to get people interested, and combine that with the brilliant ad campaign they’ve
got going—you’ll get people in the seats without giving away the story.
ScoreNotes: It’s definitely a score and movie combo that I am looking forward to as
well. Thank you for sitting down with us today to talk about it.
Clinton Shorter: Thank you. It was a lot of fun.
This page intentionally left blank
Finale

Now that you’ve reached the Finale of Keeping Score, what is it that I hope you’ve taken
away from this experience?
First off, it’s my sincere wish that you’ve enjoyed learning more about the composers
featured in this book and that you get a chance to discover or revisit the tremendously
entertaining scores they’ve produced. A wealth of inspiration and entertainment awaits
you, and the experience will open up your imagination to all-new wonders.
Second, I hope you now find that engaging in soundtracks offers you a new, exciting
manner in which to follow movies. As I’ve indicated earlier, the composers are often the
unheard voice, ironically, when it comes to movies and their discussion points. It’s my
goal that a book like this opens up the communication channels a bit more. After all,
composers offer a completely unique viewpoint on the films they work on and have
opinions that may provoke you to think about a movie’s storyline in ways that you
might not have thought of before. I certainly get more out of hearing a composer
speak than I do listening to an actor on a routine press tour.
Third, I feel that an often untouched subject in this industry is the lack of opportunities
for some of the veteran composers who are still interested in scoring films. In fact, com-
mon speculation may lead you to believe some composers have retired when they actu-
ally have not! As you have noticed in the bonus interviews, there is a bit of a gap
between today’s industry and yesterday’s composers. I hope that gap closes.
Lastly, this book was written to show my appreciation for the magic of film, television,
and videogame music. May your next steps now lead you to the music of these great
composers you just read about so that you can discover that magical spark as well.

235
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Index

A bagpiper, 65
Ball, Alan, 134
Abbey Road recording sessions, 39 True Blood’s and, 135
Abrams, J.J., 8, 39 unique instruments and out of the box
action-adventure films, 24, 69 approaches, 135–136
scores, 209 Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, 163
sound designer and, 7 Band Of Brothers, 55
Adam, 127 Bangkok Dangerous, 9
Adrift in Manhattan, 132 Bansuris, 139
Air Lyndhurst, 197, 199 Barber, 156
Alien, 199 Barker, Clive, 127
Aliens, 5, 199 Cris Velasco and, 172–173
Alive in Joburg, 231 Barr, Nathan, 133–136
Allen, Tim, 25, 27 Alan Ball’s and, 135
Allen, Woody, 108 Bill melody, 135
“All the Strange, Strange Creatures” track, 117 cello, guitar, and piano, 134
Alsop, Marin, 163 Cotton, 136
Alvin and the Chipmunks, 127 creative inspirations, 136
The American Youth Symphony, 27 diverse cultures, musical styles, and
ANC, 82 instruments, 135
Animal House, 128 HBO series timeline, 134
Bernstein, Elmer, 110 introduction to True Blood by screening
animation, 119 pilot, 134
Aniston, Jennifer, 70 movie and television industry, 135–136
apartheid, 85–86 new instruments for, 135
apartheid theme, 230 Sookie melody, 135
Armored, 78 True Blood, 133–136
Around the World in 50 Years, 94 upcoming projects, 136
Arrival, 227 vampires and, 134
art films, 23, 25 Barry, John, 74
art music, 157 Barton, Steven, 71
Assassin’s Creed, 175–178 Bates, Tyler, 57–61
Astro Boy, 18 300, 59
audio director and videogames, 182 becoming composer, 58
audio technologies, 185 composing and, 61
decade of the ’80s, 60
B directors and film music, 58
Bach, Johann Sebastian, 136, 156 Doomsday, 60
Bachet, Crystal, 64 genres, 61
BAFTA (British Academy of Film and Television genres of music of eighties, 60
Arts) awards, 185 The Last Time I Committed Suicide, 58

237
238 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Composers

Bates, Tyler (continued) Bernstein, Elmer, 127–128

movies and film scores, 58 Animal House, 110
pop-culture films, 59 Best of the Best Game Music compilation album,
Rob Zombie and, 60–61 162–163
Roger Corman’s company and Saban, 58 “Best Original Music” awards, 163
small-scale productions, 58 Betuel, John, 106
Watchmen, 59–60 Beyond the Valley of the Dolls, 148
Zack Snyder and, 59 Big Animal, 203
Batman 4, 31 Black, Jack, 68
Batman: Dark Knight, 132 Black-Hawk Down, 8
Batman Begins, 91 Black Sabbath song, 90
Battle: Los Angeles, 7–8 Blade Runner, 207
Battle For Terra, 201–203 Blades of Glory, 67
Battlestar Galactica, 137, 147–149 Blaustein, Barry, 136
Bear McCreary and, 138, 141–142 Bleth, Chris, 139
Caprica and, 141 Bloch, Thomas, 65
closure of series, 142–143 Blomkamp, Neill, 229–230
creative and artistic impact of, 138 Clinton Shorter and, 231–232
defining tone of show, 138–139 Bone Dry, 207, 211
score of, 139–140 book scores, 158
small budget for, 138 Boone, Pat, 39
Someone to Watch Over Me episode, 140 Boyle, Danny, 73
theatrical version, 142 John Murphy’s collaboration with,
thematic music, 151 75–76
Battlestar Galactica game, 171 The Boy Who Can Fly, 98
Battlestar Galactica theme, 149 Bradley, Marion Zimmer, 164
Bay, Michael, 38 Brahms, 156
Bear McCreary.com/blog, 141 “Breakout Composer of the Year” award, 42
Beautiful Little Fool, 130 Brevig, Eric, 38–39, 44
Beaver, Paul, 148–149 Broughton, Bruce, 95, 97–103
Beethoven, 156 The Boy Who Can Fly, 98
Before the Rains, 83–85, 87 cartoons, 98
Being Human, 198 emotionally cool film scoring, 98
Beltrami, Marco, 45–48, 211 fans and, 100–101
Ben Wade’s theme, 46 favorite projects, 98
Dan’s theme, 46 film music as work for hire, 99
exploring musical ideas throughout Honey I Blew Up The Kid, 101
score, 47 Ice Pirates, 98
films with built-in blockbuster status, 47 music based on other pieces, 102–103
future projects, 48 Silverado, 100–101
Knowing, 48 similar sounding scores in films,
Live Free or Die Hard, 46–47 101–102
Michael Kamen’s scores and, 47 soap operas, 98
musical sound effects, 47 sound effects alternatives, 98
Nick’s theme, 48 television series, 98
Scream films, 45, 47 timing and patience, 97
small-budget films, 47 Tombstone, 100–101
thematic elements, 46 variety of projects, 98
3:10 to Yuma, 46 what feels and sounds right, 99–100
types of movies working on, 47 Young Sherlock Holmes, 100–101
Western movies and, 46 Brown, Peter, 7
Benjamin Button, 109 Bruckheimer, Jerry, 50
Ben Wade’s theme, 46 Buck Rogers, 147–148
Beowulf, 53, 160, 169 Bungie games, 156
 Index 239

Burrows, Jimmy, 108 scores, 209

Burton, Tim, 64, 162 writing music for, 67
comic book movies, 24
commercial studio films, 22–23
C composers
Caddyshack, 128 Alex Heffes, 63, 66
Cage, Nicolas, 48 Andrew Lockington, 35–44
Calypso thematic moment, 51 artistic and creative statement, 102
Camelot, 26 availability of, 110
Cameron, James, 143 biggest films, 1
Caprica, 140–141 Brian Tyler, 3–10
Battlestar Galactica and, 141 bringing into film early, 83
Battlestar Galactica theme, 149 Bruce Broughton, 97–103
politically orientation, 150 as business people, 38
Stu Phillips problems with, 149–150 collaborators and, 41
Captain Jack’s theme, 116 comic book movies, 15
“Carl’s Recollection,” 130 competition between, 206–207
Carlsson, Mikael, 209 Craig Safan, 105–111
Carson, Jeff, 25 David Newman, 21–28
cartoons, 98 different musical approaches to same subject
Caruso, D.J., 51–52 matter, 162
Castle, Nick, 106 directors and, 77
Cave theme, 32 emulating style from temp score, 12–13
CD Baby, 210 fans identifying with, 25
Cera, Michael, 68 flexibility of, 93
chang-changs, 139 future. See future composers
character’s theme, 122 game development and, 157
Chasing Ghosts, 208–209, 211 genre or style, 87
Cheadle, Don, 82–83 Geoff Zanelli, 49–55
Cheers, 106, 110 imitating someone else, 15
Craig Safan’s work on, 108 John Murphy, 73–79
Children of Dune, 3, 5, 8 John Ottman, 11–19
Chinese Membrane flutes, 139 Marco Beltrami, 45–48
choral theme, 197 Mark Kilian, 81–87
Chow, Yun-Fat, 66 musical influences from around the world, 69
Cinderella Man, 9 Nicholas Hooper, 29–33
City of Ember, 35–36 pressures on, 92
Abbey Road recording sessions, 39 Ramin Djawadi, 89–94
Ember theme, 40 storyline music, 221
Hope theme, 40 taking story and characters seriously, 15
importance of generator, 41 talent and, 38
Lina theme, 36, 40–41 technology and music-programming race,
themes, 39–41 206–207
Clarke, Julian, 231–232 television. See television composers
Clive Barker’s Demonik, 173 telling story musically, 15, 223
Clive Barker’s Jericho, 169, 172–174 Theodore Shapiro, 67–71
Codemasters, 173 touching people with music, 223
Cody, Diablo, 71 Tyler Bates, 57–61
Cold Case, 129–130, 132 videogames. See videogame composers
Columbus Day, 132 writing similar music, 102
comedies, 25 conch, 139
importance of, 77 Cotton, 136
multidimensional approach to music, 68 Crank 1 & 2, 55
musical clichés, 209 Crazy on the Outside, 25, 27
240 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Composers

Crowe, Russell, 66 Black Sabbath song, 90

Cruise, Tom, 16 career changes, 94
Crumb, George, 228 collaboration and, 93
Crysis, 165 comic book movies, 91
CSI series, 213–214 critique by directors, 93
Simon Hunter’s contribution to, 214 flexibility of composers, 93
Cullum, Jamie, 191–192 Fly Me to the Moon, 89, 94
Curry, Mark, 199 future projects, 94
Curse of the Black Pearl, 51 Iron Man, 89–90, 92–93
Cusack, John, 66 Iron Man song, 90
Cyan, 156 Jon Favreau and, 91–92
Cyberman, 116 main hero theme, 91
Marvel Studios, 90
D Prison Break, 89
rock element used for character, 90
Daniels, Jeff, 83 superhero themes, 93–94
Danna, Mychael, 37–38 television and film scoring, 92
Dan’s theme, 46 The Unborn, 94
Darby, Ken writing music for films, 93
Camelot, 26 Doctor Who, 115–116, 118–119
The King and I, 26 Doctor Who Christmas Special, 116
Daugherty, Michael, 211 Dodd, Nicholas, 39–40
The Da Vinci Code video game, 161 Dodson, David, 53
Dawn of the Dead, 59 Doghouse, 198–199
The Day the Earth Stood Still, 57, 107 Donna Reed show, 148
Dead Space, 184–186 Donner, Richard, 15
Dead Space: Extraction, 186 Dooley, James, 121–124
Debussy, 156 character’s theme, 122
The Departed, 9 evolution of style, 124
desert location, 183 inFAMOUS video game, 121–123
The Devil’s Rejects, 60 Jax and Daxter, 122
The Devil’s Whore, 116 multiple media, 124
Die Hard 4, 45 Nerf, 122
digital distributions, 210 Obsessed, 121–124
Dillon, Matt, 78 Pushing Daisies, 121–123
Dimension/Miramax Films, 47 television series, 122
directors videogames, 123
composers and, 77, 99–100 When a Stranger Calls, 124
critique of score, 93 Doomsday, 60
film music, 58 Doyle, Patrick, 29
importance of, 74 Drag Me To Hell, 220
keeping studio happy, 102 Dragonball: Evolution, 4–6
knowledge about music, 100 Brian Tyler and, 5–6
micromanaging, 100 drums, 54
relationships with, 38 Duduk, 139
what he really wants, 77 dumbeks, 139
Disney, 170 Dumbledore’s Army theme, 30
District 9, 229–233 Dumbledore theme, 32
Peter Jackson and, 230 Dune Messiah, 5
Disturbia, 52
Djawadi, Ramin, 89–94
analysis of film scenes and pressure on
composer, 92 E
Around the World in 50 Years, 94 Eagle Eye, 3, 8–9
Batman Begins, 91 Eastwood, Clint
 Index 241

film music and, 192 identifying with composers, 25

song for Gran Torino, 191 taking music directly to, 142
working relationship with Kyle videogame music and, 158
Eastwood, 193 Fantastic Four 2, 14
Eastwood, Kyle, 191–194 Fantastic Four 4, 15
band and albums of, 193 Fantasy magazine, 164
Clint Eastwood and, 193 The Fast and Furious, 3–7
composing, 193 Favreau, Jon, 90
directing, 194 Ramin Djawadi and, 91–92
film-going audiences overseas, Fellows, Lindsay, 41
193–194 female composers, 163–164
Flags of Our Fathers, 191–192 Film Music Network, 227
Golden Globe nomination of, 191 films
Gran Torino, 191 See also movies
Japanese themes, 192 art, 23
jazz albums, 193 commercial studio, 22–23
Letters from Iwo Jima, 191–192 director and composer collaboration, 177
Michael Stevens and, 191–192 diverse cultures in, 84
music of, 193 fixed timeline, 124
Walt’s theme, 192 help for composer, 182
electric guitar, 54 importance of score, 160
Electronic Arts, 162 remakes or re-imagined franchise, 39
electronic resources, 148–149 similar sounding scores, 101–102
Elfman, Danny, 162, 211 spanning multiple locations, 53
Elkis, Boris, 225–228 temporary score, 101–102
David Twohy and, 227 thematic music, 150–151
first scoring assignment, 225 film scores
future opportunities, 228 by-product of story, 225
Graeme Revell and, 227 creative point of view, 99
inspiring composers, 228 current state of, 108–109
island theme, 226 different types of, 98
killers theme, 226 emotionally cool, 98
A Perfect Getaway, 225–228 fans and composers, 25
personal signature on music, 226–227 saying something with, 99
power of films, 228 standardized music, 108–109
romantic theme, 226 subtleties, 42
Russia, 228 themes, 42
Ember theme, 40 visibility, 176
Emerson theme, 122 as work for hire, 99
erhus, 139, 197 Final Fantasy VII, 160
Europe Firefly and music, 24
independent films, 194 Flags of Our Fathers, 191–192
Letters from Iwo Jima, 194 Flood, 64
Evolution Music Partners, 203 Fly Me to the Moon, 89, 94
The Exorcist, 58 Foster, Ben, 116
frame drums, 139
Franklin, David, 70
Frewer, Terry, 232
F future composers
Fake, Doug, 209 Abel Korzeniowski, 201–203
Fall Guy, 148 Assaf Rinde, 217–223
fans Boris Elkis, 225–228
appreciation of music, 100–101 Clinton Shorter, 229–233
Battlestar Galactica score, 141–142 Kyle Eastwood, 191–194
242 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Composers

future composers (continued) Doctor Who Christmas Special, 116

Richard Wells, 195–199 Doctor Who series, 115, 118–119
Scott Glasgow, 205–211 Doctor Who soundtrack, 115–116
Simon J. Hunter, 213–216 Hoodwinked 2, 118–119
importance of music, 117
G Silva Screen, 117–118
television versus writing scores for movies, 118
Galaxy Quest, 22, 25–26 thematic material, 116
Game Audio Network Guild awards, 163 Torchwood, 116
game developers and orchestral game music, 156 YouTube, 117
game development, composer involvement in, 157 Goldenthal, Elliot, 211
Gamer, 55 Goldsmith, Jerry, 5, 27, 58, 156, 211
GameSpot, 163 David Newman and, 25
GameZone, 163 “Go Mario,” 162–163
G.A.N.G. Award, 163 The Good Death, 130
Garcia, Liz, 130 Grace, Jeff, 211
The Gene Generation, 206, 211 Gran Torino, 191–192
Gentle Giant, 156 Graves, Jason, 185–187
Gerta, Ottman’s use of poem from, 17–18 audio technologies, 185
Ghost Rider, 220 BAFTA (British Academy of Film and
Giacchino, Michael, 8, 127 Television Arts) award, 185–186
Speed Racer, 162 creative freedom, 182–183
giant panpipes, 196–197 Dead Space, 184–185
Gibbs, Richard, 139 Dead Space: Extraction, 186
Glasgow, Scott, 205–211 Section 8, 182, 186
Bone Dry, 207, 211 videogame composers recognition, 186
Chasing Ghosts, 208–209, 211 videogame music, 182–183
comedies, 209 “The Gravy Street” album, 87
competition between composers, 206–207 Greatest Story Ever Told, 26
composers admired by, 211 Great Highland Pipes, 139
digital distributions, 210 Gregson-Williams, Harry, 50
dramas, sci-fi, or thrillers, 209 Gridlocked episode, 117
film music on CD, 210 Guess Who, 75
finding jobs, 206 Gunmen Chronicles, 170
The Gene Generation, 206, 211
independent composer hurdles, 206
innovation in music, 208 H
live orchestras versus “fake” orchestras, 207 Habb, Gordy, 211
Macintosh computers, 207–208 Hack!, 209
most rewarding project, 208–209 Håfström, Mikael, 66
small-budget films, 206–207 Half Life, 170
soundtracks, 211 Hall, Michael C., 136
technology and music-programming race, Halloween, 57–58, 199
206–207 Halloween movies, 60
tools of the trade used by, 207–208 Halo series, 157
Glass, Philip, 160 Halo Wars, 155
glass harmonica, 203 hand drums, 54
God of War series, 163, 169 Hanks, Tom, 27, 55
God of War series Hans’ themes, 50–51
Cris Velasco and, 171–172 Hardcore, 74
Gold, Murray, 115–119 Hardy Boys, 148
“All the Strange, Strange Creatures” track, 117 harmonica, 23
animation, 119 Harris, Charlaine, 135
Ben Foster and, 116 Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince,
The Devil’s Whore, 116 29, 31–33
 Index 243

Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, 29–31 Hubback, Steve, 65
Harry Potter movies, 29–30, 32–33 Hunter, Simon J., 195, 213–216
Harry’s theme, 32 American audiences and crime dramas, 214
HBO series, timeline working on, 134 Berklee College of Music, 214
Hedwig theme, 30 CSI series, 214
Heffes, Alex, 63–66 film trailers, 215–216
background of, 64 future of television and film music scoring, 215
first break in the business, 64 instruments or tools used by, 215
future goals, 66 instruments played by, 215
The Last King of Scotland, 64–65 jobs at recording studio, 214
One Day in September, 64 Melbourne, Australia, 214
ongoing or future projects, 66 musical artists worked with, 214–215
online versus print media, 65 preparation for composer, 215
Shanghai, 66 television and, 215
State of Play, 63–64
Sweeney Todd, 64
theme or motif, 65 I
Hennessy, Sean, 219 Ice Pirates, 98
Hepker, Paul, 86 Idi Amin’s bagpipe corps, 65
Herrmann, Bernard, 27, 74, 228 IGDA, 163
“He’s a Pirate,” 50–51 IGN, 163
Hinnigan, Tony, 196–197 Iliadis, Dennis
Hitman series, 49, 52–53, 175 Hardcore, 74
Hodorov, Uri, 220 Incredible Hulk, 95
Honey I Blew Up The Kid, 101 Indiana Jones
Hoodwinked 2, 118–119 Brian Tyler’s trailer music for, 9
Hooper, Nicholas, 29–33 inFAMOUS video game, 121–122
Cave theme, 32 “In Noctem,” 31
David Yates and, 32 Interactive Academy of Arts and Sciences, 163
on death of Dumbledore, 32 Interactive Achievement Award, 163
Dumbledore’s Army theme, 30 International Film Music Critics Association
Dumbledore theme, 32 “Breakout Composer of the Year”
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, 31–33 award, 42
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, “Interrogation,” 208
30–31 Invaders From Mars, 107
Harry Potter movies, 29–30, 33 Irish pennywhistles, 139
Harry Potter themes, 30 Iron Man, 89–93
Harry theme, 32 Iron Man song, 90
Hedwig theme, 30 island theme, 226
“In Noctem,” 31 iTunes, 186
on John Williams, 30
love theme, 32
Malfoy theme, 32 J
MIDI files, 31 Jablonsky, Steve, 50
personal development and career Jackson, Jake, 116, 197
opportunities, 33 Jackson, Kyle, 208–209
Possession theme, 31 Jackson, Peter, 231
Voldemort theme, 30 Jack Sparrow music moments, 51
“Hope and Despair” theme, 197 James Bond, 33
Hope theme, 40 Jason Bourne movies, 69
Horner, James, 211 Jaws, 58, 199
horror scores, 74 Jax and Daxter, 122
Howard, James Newton, 132 Jennifer’s Body, 71
Hoy, Bill, 59 Jethro Tull, 156
244 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Composers

Johnson, C Paul, 156 Metropolis, 203

John Williams style, 208 path to Hollywood, 203
Journey to the Center of the Earth, 35, 38–39, 44 Poland, 203
Pat Boone and, 39 Kripke, Eric, 126
Jovovich, Milla, 226 Kurtzman, Alex, 8
Julliard School, 69 Kyd, Jesper, 175–179
Juno, 71 Assassin’s Creed, 175, 177
creative freedom, 177
K film music, 176–177, 179
Hitman series, 175
Kadishson, Rafi, 220 motivation, 177–178
Kainan theme, 54 original music, 178
Kamen, Michael, 47, 126 quality composition, 178
Kaplan, Seth, 203 videogame music, 178
“Karis,” 208 videogames, 176
Kates, David, 218
Katzenberg, Jeffrey, 50
Kay, Stephen, 58
Kieslowski, Krzysztof, 203 L
Kilian, Mark, 81–87 La Mission, 84–85
bringing composer into film early, 83 Landis, John, 110
choosing projects strategically, 87 Lang, Fritz, 203
diverse cultures in film, 84–85 Larter, Ali, 123–124
ethnic instruments, 84 The Last House on the Left, 73–74
future projects, 87 The Last King of Scotland, 64–65
“The Gravy Street” album, 87 The Last Starfighter, 105–107
individual’s representative theme, 83 sequel to, 109–110
La Mission, 84 25th Anniversary DVD, 106–107
The Least Among You, 84 The Last Time I Committed Suicide, 58
North by El Norte, 85 Latino music, 84
percussion instruments, 82 The Least Among You, 84
Before the Rains, 83–84 Led Zeppelin, 156
sound library, 82 Lennertz, Christopher, 125–128, 211
South Africa, 85 Adam, 127
telling story, 83 Alvin and the Chipmunks, 127
traditional Indian music, 84 business side of composing, 126
Traitor, 81–83 comedy, 127–128
Tsotsi, 85–87 Elmer Bernstein and, 127–128
unaccustomed instruments, 82 key film projects, 127
Kill Bill, 52 Medal of Honor: European Assault, 125
killers theme, 226 Medal of Honor series, 127
Kill Zone, 217–219 Meet the Spartans, 127–128
The King and I, 26 The Perfect Holiday, 127
King Crimson, 228 Saint Sinner, 127
Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, 18 Supernatural, 125–126
Klich, Israel, 219 television and video games, 128
Knight Rider, 147–148 Leone, Sergio, 219
Knowing, 45, 48 The Letter, 130
Knowles, Beyonce, 123 Letters from Iwo Jima, 191–192, 194
Korzeniowski, Abel, 201–203 Letty’s Theme, 6
animation, 202 Levine, Michael, 129–132
Battle for Terra, 201–203 ASCAP awards, 130
Big Animal, 203 Cold Case, 129–130, 132
“Golden Lions” for best musical score, 203 directors and, 130
live theater, 203 future television shows or projects, 132
 Index 245

innovative techniques used by, 131 lute, 196

musical style, 131 lyre, 54
The Naked Brothers albums, 132
Orpheus Electronica, 131
period music, 129–130 M
sound effects and musical instruments, 131 Macdonald, Kevin, 64
television commercials, 131–132 The Last King of Scotland, 64
television music, 132 State of Play, 64
Li, Gong, 66 Macintosh computers, 207–208
Liebesman, Jonathan, 7–8 MacMillian, James, 211
Lin, Justin, 6–7 malaria, 65
Lina theme, 36, 40–41 Malfoy theme, 32
Lineage II: Chronicle V: Oath of Blood, 167 Malkin, Iris, 219
Lineage II: Oath of Blood, 165 Mandela, Nelson, 82
lithophone, 203 Mandingo in a Box, 218
Littman, Jonathan, 130 Marley and Me, 67, 70–71
Live Free or Die Hard, 46–47 Marshall, Neal, 60
live orchestras versus “fake” orchestras, 207 Martinez, Cliff, 132
Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, 76–77 Marvel Studios, 90
Lockington, Andrew, 35–44 The Matrix, 222
background in music, 36–37 McCain, Howard, 53
“Breakout Composer of the Year” McCloud, 148
award, 42 McCreary, Bear, 137–144, 150, 211
business people, 38 Battlestar Galactica series, 137–138, 141–143
Canada, 43 Caprica, 140–141, 149
challenges as composer, 37–38 fans, 142
characters in 3D, 39 franchises remaking series, 144
City of Ember, 35–36, 39–42 live concerts, 141–142
3D technology, 38–39 music associated with movie, 143–144
Ember theme, 40 music taking its cue from film, 143
film music, 37–38, 42 The Sarah Connor Chronicles, 143
future goals, 44 Someone to Watch Over Me episode, 140
Hope theme, 40 Terminator universe, 143
Journey to the Center of the Earth, 35, 38 themes, 141
Lina theme, 36, 40–41 unique instruments, 139
Los Angeles, 43 working on small budget, 138
Mychael Danna and, 37 writing music for prequel, 141
new and interesting projects, 44 Medal of Honor: European Assault, 125
Nicholas Dodd and, 39–40 Medal of Honor series, 127
personal relationship with music, 42 Meet the Spartans, 127–128
producers and directors, 38 Mehta, Zubin, 27
professional band, 36 Meyerson, Alan, 51
remakes or re-imagined franchise films, 39 Miami Vice, 148
rock music, 36 Miller, Frank, 22, 59
studying music, 36–37 Miller, Robyn and Myst, 156
talented composers, 38 Millions, 78
themes, 42 The Mint, 142
on writing score, 37, 40–41 Misconceptions, 132
Lockington, Cielle, 43 Mitsubishi Eclipse, 131
Lockington, Kaya, 43 Monkees, 148
Lost in Space, 97 Moog synthesizer, 148–149
love theme, 32, 52 “Moonlight Serenade” sequence, 51
LSO (London Symphony Orchestra), 199 Moore, Ron, 142
Lucas, George, 38 Moorwen themes, 54
246 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Composers

Morgan, Mark, 218 Eight Legged Freaks, 18

Morricone, Andrea, 46, 220 emotional response, 42
Morricone, Ennio, 74, 219 fans, 142
Movie Night in Los Angeles, 27 functional, 157
movies importance of, 117
See also films juxtaposing softness against violence, 52
action, 24 MIDI files, 31
comic book, 15, 24 personal relationship with, 42
information-leaking, 222 personal signature on, 226–227
keeping music associated with, 143–144 programmatic, 158
new 3D technology, 39 race against the clock storyline, 41
post-production and, 221 rap-influenced Kwaito, 87
safeguarding secrecy of, 222 reflecting hope and sadness, 122
sci-fi, 24 small ensemble for, 138
versus television series, 24 soloists, 138
testing themes, 118 taking chances with, 47
trailer music, 9 taking cue from film, 143
uniqueness, 162 tempo of, 77
videogames based on, 161–162 musical clichés, 209
working title, 222 music industry and independent spirit, 231–232
movie trailers, 215–216 Mutant Chronicles, 195–197
Mozart’s 40th Symphony, 174 Mutants music, 197
Mr. Wrong, 110 My Life in Ruins, 27
Murphy, John, 73–79 Myst, 156
Armored, 78 Myth 2, 157
child’s perspective, 78
collaboration with Danny Boyle and Guy
Ritchie, 73, 75–76 N
creative freedom as composer, 79 Nachmanoff, Jeffrey, 81–82
28 days Later, 75 Nailed, 218
Dennis Iliadis and, 74 The Naked Brothers albums, 132
difficulties scoring mainstream projects, 75 Nankin, Michael, 140
directors and, 74, 77 Narnia sequel, 95
Ennio Morricone, John Barry, and Nina NASA’s first computer, 148–149
Rota, 74 Natal, Nimrod, 78
experimenting with music, 76 National Public Radio, 161
feedback, 78 Neely, Blake, 55
generic and predictable horror scores, 74 Nerf, 122
on Guy Ritchies films, 76–77 Nevada Smith, 26
The Last House on the Left, 73–74 Neveldine, Mark, 55
mechanics of score, 77 Newman, Alfred, 21
Millions, 78 Camelot, 26
on scores juxtaposing actions, 74 The King and I, 26
simple tunes, 78 Newman, David, 21–28
taking chances with music, 73 The American Youth Symphony, 27
themes, 77 art films, 23, 25
music becoming film composer, 27
alternative to sound effects, 98 collaborating with movie, 25
art, 157 comedies, 25
associated with movie, 143–144 commercial studio films, 22–23
based on other pieces, 102–103 conducting, 25–26
comedies, 68 Crazy on The Outside, 25, 27
cultural aspects, 85 future projects, 27–28
cutting down, 101 Galaxy Quest, 25
 Index 247

Jerry Goldsmith’s movies, 25 film music, 18–19

John Williams’ movies, 25 Gerta, 17
Movie Night in Los Angeles, 27 Incognito, 18
musically inspired family, 26–27 John Williams and, 15
My Life in Ruins, 27 musical themes in series, 13–14
playing violin and piano, 26 next projects, 18–19
scoring, 23 science fiction, 12
sequel to Galaxy Quest, 25–26 Silver Surfer theme, 14
Serenity, 24 Superman, 14–15
sound versus music, 23–24 Superman Returns, 15
The Spirit, 22–23 Superman theme, 15
Sundance Composers Program, 25 The Usual Suspects, 11
Newman, Lionel, 26 Valkyrie, 16–17
Newman, Maria, 27 X-Men sequel, 13
Newman, Randy, 21 X-Men 2 themes, 14
Newman, Thomas, 21, 26–27, 108, 156, 211 Our Boy is Back, 130
Nick’s theme, 48 Outlander, 49, 53–54
NIN (Nine Inch Nails), 210 Geoff Zanelli’s initial involvement with, 53
Nintendo, 222
North by El Norte, 85 P
Nyman, Michael, 228
The Pacific, 55
Padgham, Hugh, 215
O Parisot, Dean, 25
Obsessed, 121–124 Part, Arvo, 211, 228
O’Connor-Read, Greg, 186 Partition, 4
O’Donnell, Marty, 155–158 Patriotville, 207
Audio Director/Composer for Bungie, 156 percussion instruments, 139
book scores, 158 A Perfect Getaway, 225–228
commercials and film, 156 Boris Elkis scoring, 225
fans, 158 The Perfect Holiday, 127
favorite composers and bands, 156 Petrie, Donald, 27
Halo, 155, 157–158 Phillips, Stu, 147–151
Myth 2, 157 Battlestar Galactica, 147–149
orchestral game music, 156 on Bear McCreary, 150
producing audio, 156 Beyond the Valley of the Dolls, 148
programmatic music, 158 Buck Rogers, 147–148
prog-rock band, 156 Caprica, 149–150
Riven, 156 Donna Reed show, 148
videogame composing, 156–158 early electronic resources, 148–149
Okun, Jeff, 106 Fall Guy, 148
The Omen, 199 Hardy Boys, 148
One Day in September, 64 Knight Rider, 147–148
One Winged Angel, 160 McCloud, 148
Opaloch, Trent, 231 Miami Vice, 148
orchestral game music, 156 Monkees, 148
Orci, Bob, 8 Quincy, 148
The Orphan, 218 Switch, 148
Orpheus Electronica, 131 television themes, 148
Orvarsson, Atli, 211 thematic music, 150–151
Ottman, John Phillips, Winifred, 159–164
Bryan Singer and, 11–12 “Best Original Music” awards, 163
Eight Legged Freaks, 18 Charlie and the Chocolate Factory project, 162
Fantastic Four films, 14–15 classical training, 159–160
favorite scores, 18 composing, 159–160
248 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Composers

Phillips, Winifred (continued) Remo Williams, 111

The Da Vinci Code videogame, 161 Rendition, 84, 87
female composers, 163–164 Reno, Jean, 78
Game Audio Network Guild awards, 163 Revell, Graeme, 225–227
G.A.N.G. Award, 163 Revolutionary Road, 108
God of War, 163 Reynolds, Andy, 197
“Go Mario,” 162–163 Rigler, Eric, 139
Interactive Achievement Award, 163 Rinde, Assaf, 217–223
changing technology, 221
musical background, 159–160
composing, 218, 223
Radio Tales series, 160–161
entertainment industry, 218–219
Shrek the Third videogame, 163
Israel, 217
SimAnimals project, 162
Kill Zone, 218–219
Speed Racer videogame, 163
lessons from composers, 220
videogame music, 160–162
Mandingo in a Box, 218
videogames based on movies, 161–162
movie trailers, 218
Winnie Waldron and, 161
Nailed, 218
Pirates of the Caribbean films, 49–51
The Orphan, 218
Geoff Zanelli and, 50–51
Race to Witch Mountain, 218
The Pit and the Pendulum, 160
secrecy and videogames, 222
Pitch Black, 227
Starship Troopers 3, 218
The Planet of the Apes, 27, 58
Tinkerbell & Her Friends Saving Energy, 218
Planet Terror, 199
videogame collaboration, 218
Poledouris, Basil, 126
videogame music, 220–222
Possession theme, 31 Rippy, Stephen
Prague, 9 Halo Wars, 155
Predator, 5 Ritchie, Guy, 73, 76–77
Pressman, Ed, 196 Riven, 156
Prince of Persia, 165–167 Roberts, Chris, 53
Prison Break, 89, 92–93 Rodriguez, Victor, 171–172
producers and relationships, 38 romantic theme, 226
programmatic music, 158 Ron Howard pictures and Brian Tyler’s trailer
Prokofiev, Sergey, 228 music, 9
Pro Tools, 197 Rosemary’s Baby, 74
Proyas, Alex, 48 Rota, Nina, 74
Psycho, 199 Roth, Eli, 136
Pumpkin, 18 Rouse, Christopher, 211
Punshon, Dave, 195
Pushing Daisies, 121–123
S
Safan, Craig, 95, 105–111
Q Cheers, 105, 108, 110
Quincy, 148 film and television music, 108–109
hallmarks of career, 110–111
The Last Starfighter, 105–110
R Mr. Wrong, 110
Race to Witch Mountain, 218 Remo Williams, 111
Radio Tales series, 160–161 on Slumdog Millionaire score, 109
Raksin, David, 27, 156 Stand and Deliver, 110–111
Rambo, 5 standardized music, 108–109
Rambo installment (2008), 7 Tag: The Assassination Game, 106
Ramis, Harold, 67–68 talented composers available, 110
rap-influenced Kwaito music, 87 theater music, 106
Razor Blade Smile, 195 Saint Sinner, 127
Reich, Steve, 228 Salvatori, Michael, 156
Remote Control Productions, 50 Halo, 155
 Index 249

Sanders, Buck, 46 Shorter, Clinton, 229–233

Sands, Dennis, 111 Alive in Joburg, 231
Sand Saref, 23 District 9, 230–233
Sands of Time, 166–167 goals as composer, 232
Santos, Vitor, 219 music industry and independent spirit,
Sarabande, Varese, 210 231–232
The Sarah Connor Chronicles, 143–144 Neill Blomkamp and, 231
Saving Private Ryan, 8, 127 Peter Jackson and, 231
Saving Sammy, 130 sci-fi fans, 232
Schnittke, Alfred, 228 television, 232
Schwarzenegger, Arnold, 33 Shostakovich, Dmitri, 228
science fiction, 7–8, 149 Shrek the Third videogame, 163
sci-fi movies, 24, 207 Sierra, 170
scores Silken Floss, 23
action movies, 7 Silva Screen, 117–118
continuity of, 151 Silverado, 97, 100–103
3D aspect of visuals on, 38 Silverman, Sarah, 136
ethnic instruments, 84 Silver Surfer theme, 14
race against the clock element, 41 Silvestri, Alan, 211
similar sounding, 101–102 SimAnimals project, 162
starting and finishing at extreme opposites, 225 The Simpsons Movie, 132
thematically divisive approach, 82–83 simulation genre, 162
videogames, 156, 161–162 Singer, Bryan
Scott, Ridley, 50 first X-Men film, 13
Scream, 47, 199 John Ottman and, 11–12
Section 8, 181–183, 186 Superman, 14
The Usual Suspects, 11
seduction sequence, 51
sipsi, 139
Serenity, 22, 24
Sirius XM Satellite Radio, 160–161
series, themes in, 13–14
Sivan, Santosh, 83
seven-foot frame drum, 203
Skywalker Ranch, 173
Shakuhachis, 139 Slumdog Millionaire, 109
Shanghai, 66 small-budget films, 207
Shapiro, Theodore, 67–71 Snatch, 76–77
Ben Stiller action movie, 69 Snoot, 202
Blades of Glory, 67 Snyder, Zack, 57
comedies, 67–68 300, 59
different genres, 69–70 Tyler Bates and, 59
future projects, 71 Watchmen, 59
getting pigeon-holed in Hollywood, 69 soap operas, 98
Harold Ramis and, 68 Some Like It Hot, 228
Irish melodies, 70 Someone to Watch Over Me episode, 140
Jason Bourne movies, 69 Sookie melody, 135
Jennifer’s Body, 71 sound designer and action movies, 7
Julliard School, 69 soundtrack CDs, 210
Marley and Me, 67, 70 soundtracks
musical influences, 69 based on other pieces, 102–103
sentimental value of music, 70–71 composer making modifications, 33
Tropic Thunder, 67, 69 sound versus music, 23–24
Year One, 67–68 South Africa, 85–87
Shimmel, John, 53 spaghetti westerns, 23
Shlomo, 65 Speed Racer game, 162–163
shofar, 139 Spellbound, 209
Shore, Ryan, 211 Spiderman 3, 220
250 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Composers

Spielberg, Stephen, 9, 38, 55 testing themes, 118

The Spirit, 21–25 thematic music, 150–151
Stallone, Sylvester, 7 television composers
Stand and Deliver, 110–111 Bear McCreary, 137–144
standardized music, 108–109 Christopher Lennertz, 125–128
Starship Troopers 3, 218 James Dooley, 121–124
Star Trek, 5, 12, 15, 149, 195 Michael Levine, 129–132
orchestral bombast of, 139 Murray Gold, 115–119
Star Trek theme, 39 Nathan Barr, 133–136
Star Trek (2009), 8 Stu Phillips, 147–151
Star Trek theme, 39 television music, 108–109
Star Wars, 107, 139, 149 temporary music, 207
State of Play, 63–65 Terminator, 199
Brian Tyler trailer music, 9 Terminator 2, 141
steam punk theme, 195 Terminator 3, 45, 143
Stevens, Michael, 191 Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, 141
Flags of Our Fathers, 192 Terminator Salvation, 195
Kyle Eastwood and, 191–192 Terminator series, 33
Letters from Iwo Jima, 192 “The Chemical Brothers” tracks, 182
Stewart, Catherine Mary, 106 thematic score, 38
Stiehm, Meredith, 130 themes, 42
Stiller, Ben, 69 adding personal style to, 14
Strauss, Richard, 136 Harry Potter, 30
Stravinsky, Igor, 228 responsibility for, 6
Stripes, 128 series and, 13–14
Summon the Worms [Children of Dune], 9 testing, 118
Sundance Composers Program, 25 theorbo, 196
Sunshine, 75 “The Prodigy,” 182
superhero themes, 94 This World Fair band, 52
Superman, 14–15 Thompson, Bradley, 140
Superman Returns, 15 Three Days of the Condor, 228
Super Mario Bros theme song, 163 300, 14, 57, 59
Supernatural, 125–126 3:10 to Yuma, 45–47
Sweeney Todd, 64 Tia Dalma theme, 51
Switch, 148 TimeGate, 182–183
Sword and Sorceress XX anthology, 164 Timeline, 5
Tinkerbell & Her Friends Saving Energy, 218
Tombstone, 97, 100–101
Torchwood
T Ben Foster and, 116
tabla, 139 Torjussen, Ceiri, 211
Tag: The Assassination Game, 106 Torke, Michael, 211
Taiko drums, 139 Toth, Wayne, 60
“Take Off” theme, 197 Townson, Robert, 209
talent and composers, 38, 110 TOXIC, 209
Tatchell, Terri, 231–232 Traitor, 81–84, 87
Taylor, Brian, 55 Tropic Thunder, 67, 69
television True Blood, 133–136
building up audience, 118 True Romance, 52
fixed timeline, 124 The Truman Show, 160
help for composer, 182 Tsirbas, Aristomenis, 202
producer’s medium, 130 Tsotsi, 81, 84–87
score and, 160 28 Days Later, 75–76
specific palette of sound, 108 28 Weeks Later, 199
 Index 251

Twohy, David, 225–227 Verne, Jules, 39

Tyler, Brian, 3–10, 211 videogame composers
Aliens, 5 Cris Velasco, 169–174
Battle: Los Angeles, 7–8 dependence on technology, 186
Children of Dune, 3, 5 female composers, 163–164
Dragonball: Evolution, 4–6 Inon Zur, 165–168
Dune Messiah, 5 Jason Graves, 181–187
Eagle Eye, 3, 9 Jesper Kyd, 175–179
The Fast and Furious, 3–7 O’Donnell, Marty, 155–158
inspiration for Dragonball: Evolution, 5 recognition of, 186
Jerry Goldsmith and, 5 Winifred Phillips, 159–164
movies worked on, 9 videogame music, 160–161, 163, 170
Partition, 4 videogames
Predator, 5 attention to detail, 176
Rambo, 5 audio director, 182
Rambo installment (2008), 7 audio technologies, 185
Spielberg connection, 9 composing music for, 221
Star Trek, 5 creative freedom, 177, 182–183
Star Trek (2009), 8 electronic sounds, 166
Sylvester Stallone and, 7 future of music, 178
themes, 6 implementation state, 167–168
Timeline, 5 importance of music in, 168
trailer music, 9 integrating scores, 185
variety of scores by, 3–4 no fixed timeline, 124
nonlinear storytelling, 183
U orchestral elements and electronic
tools, 183
Uematsu, Nobuo, 156
orchestral scores, 166
Final Fantasy series, 157
original music, 178
One Winged Angel, 160
scores based on movies, 161–162
Uilleann Bagpipes, 139
scoring, 167–168
The Unborn, 94
secrecy associated with, 222
The Uninvited, 220
simulation genre, 162
Untraceable, 220
soundtracks, 177, 186–187
The Usual Suspects, 11–12
Wells, Richard, 196
Video Games Live and Play! live concert, 186
V Viking music theme, 53
Valkyrie, 16–17 Vivindi Universal, 171
Valve, 170 Voldemort theme, 30
Vasks, Peteris, 211
Velasco, Cris, 169–174
Battlestar Galactica game, 171 W
Beowulf, 169 Waldron, Winnie, 163
Clive Barker demo CD, 172–173 Radio Tales series, 161
Clive Barker’s Demonik, 173 Winifred Phillips and, 161
Clive Barker’s Jericho, 169, 172–174 Wall-E, 108, 202
death metal band, 174 Wallfisch, Ben, 197
early projects, 170 Walt’s theme, 192
friend composers, 171 Warner Bros., 203
God of War series, 169, 171–172 War of the Worlds, 160
Gunmen Chronicles, 170 Watchmen, 57, 59–60
orchestrating for Disney, 170 Weddle, David, 140
videogame music, 170–171 Weinland, Jay, 156
252 Keeping Score: Interviews with Today’s Top Composers

Wells, Richard, 195–199 Y

Being Human television series, 198
composing background, 195 Yates, David, 31–32
Doghouse, 198 Harry Potter movies, 30
dream project orchestra, 199 Year One, 67–68
favorite films, 199 Yes, 156
“Hope and Despair” theme, 197 Young, Christopher, 211, 220
Mutant Chronicles, 195–197 Young Sherlock Holmes, 97, 100–101
orchestra and recording process, YouTube, 117
197–198
Razor Blade Smile, 195 Z
steam punk theme, 195 Zahn, Steve, 226
“Take Off” theme, 197 Zanelli, Geoff, 49–55
videogames, 196 Calypso thematic moment, 51
Xymox, 195 collaborations, 50–51
West, Jake, 195 current projects, 55
westerns, 46, 98 Curse of the Black Pearl, 51
Whedon, Josh, 24 Disturbia, 51–52
When a Stranger Calls, 124 Gamer, 55
White, Michael, 41 Hans’ themes, 50–51
Whitehouse, Toby, 198 “He’s a Pirate,” 50–51
Wii, 222 Hitman, 49, 52
Wild, Kenny, 108 instruments from different cultures, 54
Williams, Harry Gregson, 132 John Powell and, 50
Williams, John, 29, 208, 211 Kainan theme, 54
David Newman and, 25 love theme, 52
Nicholas Hooper on, 30 Moorwen themes, 54
Ottman taking over for, 15 musical partnership, 50
Williams, Rupert Gregson, 132 Outlander, 49, 53–54
Williams, Vaughan, 156 The Pacific, 55
Williamson, Robb, 55 Pirates of the Caribbean films, 49–51
Wilson, Owen, 70 Remote Control Productions, 50
Wilson, Rainn, 136 Tia Dalma theme, 51
Wolverine, 195 Viking music theme, 53
women and music composition, 163–164 Zimmer, Hans, 50–51, 55, 129
Women in Games Special Interest Zimmerman, Don, 25
Group, 163 Zombie, Rob, 57
woodwind instruments, 54 The Devil’s Rejects, 60
Tyler Bates and, 60
X Zur, Inon, 165–168, 218, 220
X-Men Crysis, 165
Bryan Singer and, 13 implementation state, 167–168
John Ottman scoring sequel, 13 Lineage II: Chronicle V: Oath of Blood, 167
X-Men 2, 14 Lineage II: Oath of Blood, 165
X-Men 3, 14 Prince of Persia series, 165–167
Xymox, 195 videogames, 166–168