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Effective Resistance in USB3.1 PHY

This document discusses effective resistance values for pins on a USB 3.1 PHY IP. The resistance values are higher than the target threshold of 0.15 ohms. An engineer from Synopsys confirms the pin names and project details and will check if waiving the resistance thresholds is acceptable. They aim to provide an update by February 17th.

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vaibhav_9090
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0% found this document useful (0 votes)
254 views4 pages

Effective Resistance in USB3.1 PHY

This document discusses effective resistance values for pins on a USB 3.1 PHY IP. The resistance values are higher than the target threshold of 0.15 ohms. An engineer from Synopsys confirms the pin names and project details and will check if waiving the resistance thresholds is acceptable. They aim to provide an update by February 17th.

Uploaded by

vaibhav_9090
Copyright
© © All Rights Reserved
We take content rights seriously. If you suspect this is your content, claim it here.
Available Formats
Download as PDF, TXT or read online on Scribd

2/17/23, 11:00 PM Case: 01475881

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2/16/2023, 7:16 AM - Email from support_center@[Link]

Subject: Case: 01475881 - Open - Effective resistance for dwc_usbc31dptx_ebdaux_phy_tsmc4ffpns - Google LLC - DesignWare Cores [ ref:_00D1UtYmi._5004w2dJQH3:ref ]
From: support_center@[Link]
To: vaiibhav@[Link]
Sent: 2/16/2023, 7:16 AM
Hi Vaibhav,

These vsscore_* impedances should be ok, assuming the SoC ground(s) and PHY functional ground (such as gd) will be shorted at package level.

The PHY back-to-back diodes (actually, anti-parallel diodes) protect the stand-alone die (pre-packaging) when ESD threats (ESD current magnitudes) are far less than in a
package.  Consequently, the ESD routing resistance requirement (our team mentions 0.3 ohm from the DRM) could be relaxed to even ~ 1 ohm.  Later, in the package when the PHY and SoC
grounds are shorted, the anti-parallel diodes are generally being bypassed by the shared package ground.  Generally we recommend achieving the lowest possible impedance and meeting
foundry requirements, but we don't expect an issue with the resistance values you have.

Regards,
-Darcy

ref:_00D1UtYmi._5004w2dJQH3:ref

2/15/2023, 8:04 PM - Comment by Vaibhav Gupta

Hi Darcy

Thanks for checking. Please ignore the vddio pin(this pin is not in pma, my bad to mention it here)

Can you please help close for vsscore_* pins ?

Thanks
Vaibhav

2/15/2023, 11:41 AM - Email from support_center@[Link]

Subject: Case: 01475881 - Open - Effective resistance for dwc_usbc31dptx_ebdaux_phy_tsmc4ffpns - Google LLC - DesignWare Cores [ ref:_00D1UtYmi._5004w2dJQH3:ref ]
From: support_center@[Link]
To: vaiibhav@[Link]
Sent: 2/15/2023, 11:41 AM

[Link] 1/4
2/17/23, 11:00 PM Case: 01475881
Hi Vaibhav,

We received confirmation from the Project Manager that the correct Project and PHY are:

Project Oscar1 - USB3.1 DPTX PHY tsmc4ffp

We received an email from you on this topic and the email had a couple of extra details.  We are copying it here:

------------- 
In HSIO_N block we have dwc_usbc32dptx_ebdaux_phy IP being used and as part of EMIR sign off , we check the effective resistance. Now for
vsscore_2/1 and vddio we are getting a resistance max 0.3 ohms.

As per internal alignment we had to meet a threshold of 0.15. As this is violating we need to check with synopsys if these numbers are ok to continue.

I tried filing a ticket on solvnet but it seems the support for these IP's has ended (attached snippet) and I am unable to proceed.

Can you help either in checking if these resistances are ok to proceed for Oscar1 or if you can connect me to synopsys PoC for this IP

Thanks
Vaibhav
----------------

For the pins vsscore_0, vsscore_1, vsscore_2, these are the USB3.1 DPTX PHY pma pins intended for the ESD routing connection to the SoC core ground.

However we didn't recognize the pin name vddio since it is not a pin name from the USB3.1 DPTX PHY.  Could you clarify what is the vddio pin?

For this ESD routing impedance question in general, we believe the impedance limit is defined by the foundry DRM.  We are not sure if the SNPS team could comment about waiving these
impedances, but we will check and we'll try to provide a status update by Fri Feb 17.

Regards,
-Darcy

ref:_00D1UtYmi._5004w2dJQH3:ref

2/15/2023, 10:54 AM - Email from support_center@[Link]

Subject: Case: 01475881 - Open - Effective resistance for dwc_usbc32dptx_ebdaux_phy - Google LLC - DesignWare Cores [ ref:_00D1UtYmi._5004w2dJQH3:ref ]
From: support_center@[Link]
To: vaiibhav@[Link]
Sent: 2/15/2023, 10:54 AM
Hi Vaibhav,

The mentioned PHY and project doesn't align. Could you clarify which Project ID and PHY this solvnet case is for?  It should be one of these:

Project Oscar1 - USB3.1 DPTX PHY tsmc4ffp


Project Marina - USB3.2 DPTX PHY tsmc3eff

Regards,
-Darcy

ref:_00D1UtYmi._5004w2dJQH3:ref

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2/17/23, 11:00 PM Case: 01475881

Case Number
01475881

Case Status
Customer Input Requested

Subject
Effective resistance for dwc_usbc31dptx_ebdaux_phy_tsmc4ffpns

Case Origin
4-Solvnet

Product Information

Product L1
DesignWare Cores (/s/detail/01t1U000003IXzpQAG)

Release

Product L2
USB3.1/DP PHY (/s/detail/01t1U000003IZOXQA4)

OS Affected

Product L3
dwc_usbc31dptx_ebdaux_phy_tsmc4ffpns (/s/detail/01t4w00000O35vRAAR)

Project ID
Oscar1

Product L4
ESD (/s/detail/01t4w00000O35vvAAB)

Licensed Product
[H072-0] DWC USBC31DPTX PHY TSMC N4P

HW Product

Serial Number

Summary

Case Type
Methodology

Case Severity
Showstopper

Customer Tracking Number

Search String

Customer Tag 1

Customer Tag 2

Customer Information

Logo
Google (/s/account/0011U000015QvO2QAK/google)

Contact Name
Vaibhav Gupta (/s/contact/0034w00004Btt9kAAB/vaibhav-gupta)

Account Name
Google LLC (/s/account/0011U000015R0XtQAK/google-llc)

Web Email

[Link] 3/4
2/17/23, 11:00 PM Case: 01475881

System Information

Date/Time Opened
2/14/2023, 9:03 PM

Status
Open

Date/Time Closed

Legacy Case Number

Description

Description
Hi Team
dwc_usbc32dptx_ebdaux_phy (Correction: dwc_usbc31dptx_ebdaux_phy_tsmc4ffpns) IP is present in one of the block and as part of EMIR signoff we do effective resistance
check from bumps to the pins of the IP (pins are on M15 for above IP) . Currently we are getting below resistance values:

vsscore_2 -> 0.38 ohms


vsscore_1 -> 0.35 ohms
vddio -> 0.23 ohms
vsscore_0 -> 0.2 ohms

Is there any concern with above values? This is a Tape out blocking item, please help close this soon.

Thanks
Vaibhav

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Common questions

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The Synopsys support team assists in evaluating whether the resistance values observed by Vaibhav meet the necessary design requirements and can provide guidance on possible technical accommodations or adjustments when those values do not comply. They play an important role in analyzing and mitigating technical challenges by leveraging their expertise in the design and integration of semiconductor IP .

Foundry DRM guidelines are critical as they establish the electrical and physical parameters within which semiconductor devices must be fabricated and operate. These guidelines ensure that designs are compatible with manufacturing capabilities and reliable in operational environments, particularly for ESD protection where impedance limits directly affect the ability to effectively shunt ESD events to ground .

If resistance values exceed recommended thresholds, it is important to first verify the accuracy of the measurement and possibly re-evaluate the design for any potential points of excessive resistance like narrow traces. Enhancing ground connectivity, rerouting signal paths, or increasing trace width could then mitigate resistance issues. Consulting with foundry service representatives for adjusting design or process parameters might also be necessary .

Routing resistance values such as 0.2 ohms can significantly affect PHY performance in an SoC environment by contributing to power loss and potential signal integrity issues. In high-speed operations, maintaining low resistance is crucial to ensure efficient current flow and minimal voltage drop, preserving signal clarity and device reliability .

Having an effective resistance of 0.38 ohms at the vsscore_2 pin is above the typical threshold of 0.15 ohms mentioned for EMIR sign-off, potentially leading to issues like increased heating and reduced efficiency because it indicates higher path impedance than desired. This value may not be acceptable as it could result in performance degradation under certain conditions .

Anti-parallel diodes in the PHY design provide protection against electrostatic discharge (ESD) threats to the standalone die in pre-packaging conditions, where current magnitudes are lower. When the PHY is integrated into a package with the SoC, and the package-level grounds are shorted, these diodes are generally bypassed. This means the shared package ground takes over, reducing the reliance on diode protection .

Integrating ESD routing into the SoC core ground helps in minimizing impedance, thus enhancing the PHY's performance by reducing the possible disruption from electrostatic discharge. This setup ensures that any discharge finds an efficient path to ground, thereby protecting the delicate circuitry within the PHY from damage and maintaining performance consistency .

The misalignment of the USB3.1 DPTX PHY and Project Oscar1 could lead to confusion in addressing technical issues and impede effective case resolution. It was identified through communications where a Project ID required clarification to ensure correct project handling, which would help in aligning the design specifications and support resources appropriately .

Bypassing with a shared package ground reduces the necessity for extremely low impedance in ESD routing because it provides an alternate, efficient path for discharge currents. This can allow for slightly higher local impedances without compromising ESD protection effectiveness, although striving for the lowest possible impedance is still recommended for optimal performance .

The 0.15 ohms resistance threshold in an EMIR sign-off is likely due to stringent requirements to ensure signal integrity and power delivery in high-speed interfaces like USB3.1 DPTX PHY. Exceeding this threshold might lead to electromagnetic interference issues or inadequate voltage levels reaching the required circuitry, affecting overall performance and reliability .

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