Jochen Eickholt, CEO of Siemens Gamesa, joins the pod.

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Welcome to the Offshore Wind Podcast, hosted by Stewart Mullin and David Lenti.
Offshore Wind is one of the world's fastest growing energy sources, with strong year on
year growth expected across the next few decades, many nations are banking on offshore
wind to play a major role in reaching their net zero and sustainability targets, helping their
economies recover from the COVID 19 crisis. On the technology front, turbines are bigger
and more powerful than ever. Offshore wind farm capacity factors continue to rise, and
we're seeing a surge of interest from oil and gas giants seeking to transition their
businesses away from fossil fuels, as well as increased competition from the developers
who have championed offshore wind. From day one, new markets in Asia, the Americas,
and eventually Africa. Accelerated growth in Europe. The rise of floating offshore wind and
increasing interest in power types and green hydrogen solutions are creating the basis for
offshore wind to power the global energy transition. The Offshore Wind Podcast series
looks at the issues facing the offshore wind industry today and tomorrow.

Stewart Mullin [00:01:03] Hello listeners, and welcome to the Offshore Wind podcast. But
I'm Stewart Mullin on the chief operating officer at the Global Wind Energy Council. And
I'm here at the desk, as always, by Mr. David Lenti from Siemens, Gamesa. David,
welcome to the desk once again and I believe you have a new title today. You have you're
now the Corporate Operations and Governance Community Lead at Siemens Commercial.

David Lenti [00:01:25] It's communications lead.

Stewart Mullin [00:01:27] Communications.

David Lenti [00:01:28] Nonetheless, all fine. That is correct, yes. And may I praise you
again today on the glorious decoration of Milan Road Studios here on this very, very nice
warm spring day in Denmark.

Stewart Mullin [00:01:39] Yeah, Yeah. My wife's telling me to get the Christmas lights
down, but there'll be Christmas again soon enough anyway. Yeah. So today we have a
very special guest. We have your CEO, David. We have Mr. Jochen. I quote the CEO of
Siemens Gamesa Renewable Energy. Welcome to the Offshore Wind podcast. Welcome.

Jochen Eickholt [00:01:58] Well, thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here.

Stewart Mullin [00:02:01] Look, as we start out each podcast where we have a guest on
the show, we try to delve a little bit into the background of who's, you know, the person
behind the persona. I think that I know you're a very well-known person within the industry,
but maybe people don't know who you are as such. You know how you got to where you
are in life. So maybe if you could just spend a couple of minutes just walking us through
your background, how you came up in the Siemens world and what you've been doing
prior to being CEO of Siemens Gamesa.

Jochen Eickholt [00:02:32] I well, happy to be here, As I said. I mean, the situation was
that I joined Zemin rather late. I was almost 40 years old. But after that was in a variety of
different businesses in the communications business. I think I became sold to a company
called NQ when I was part of the cell phone business of Siemens. I will not join team once
again. And for the time after 2008, I was able to to contribute to the success of the then
called mobility business. I and that I had the pleasure to run until the end of 2017. That
was the time when this merger with Alstom was announced.
Stewart Mullin [00:03:21] Okay.

Jochen Eickholt [00:03:22] A couple of steps after that. But still, since 2020, I joined the
energy world. I was part of the board of the Executive Board of Siemens Energy. And in
the beginning of 22, I was asked to take over the responsibility for the commission, which I
hope you did. I've never been working in an environment where the perspectives of the
business space is such so tremendous like they are today here in Gwent.

Stewart Mullin [00:03:50] Yeah. So just to walk back a little bit, so the Siemens mobility
stuff, that's that soul of the trains that the Siemens trains, etcetera, that was that area.
Yeah that's a pretty Absolutely.

Jochen Eickholt [00:04:01] So also infrastructure that is more software business but in
the end it's been also the trains and we had a lot of large projects across Europe actually
actually across the globe, but also across Europe. And for instance, in the UK, the
Thameslink project was one of the bigger ones for me.

Stewart Mullin [00:04:21] Well, so these are big energy using projects. So now you're in
the energy generation business. I mean, used to use the energy, now you're making it. I
guess this gives you a fairly well-rounded view of the the whole energy cycle.

Jochen Eickholt [00:04:36] Well, certainly that's one aspect. The other thing is, in the
end, we have to deal with a couple of mechanical elements in our business. We have to
kind of get integrated with some energy generation or consumption. But a generator is not
that different from the motor. Yeah. So in the end, the businesses are not that different
since all the businesses are really part of businesses.

Stewart Mullin [00:05:02] Yeah, I so I have a I mean when you get the say the CEO of
Siemens in Asia on a podcast you have about a billion questions but because this is the
Offshore Wind podcast we'll try to contain that to the offshore wind business. And I mean, I
think that because, you know, as an industry in general, I think the whole industry is
looking at, you know, how do we supply, how do we solve the supply chain challenges,
how do we support, how do we get more permitting into projects? How do we, you know,
as a region structure up? But I think, you know, today we need to focus our time and our
questions into the offshore wind business. But I know that, you know, you've recently been
at Oostende for the I guess it was the North Seas Summit. I think it was back down there.
And, you know, I think that I'm presuming that that all of Europe is looking to Siemens,
Gamesa as to what to do with the offshore wind space for for this market. Can you shed a
few thoughts around your of around how you see the industry, maybe the current state of
the industry and some of the markets they're in?

Jochen Eickholt [00:06:10] Well, I think the overall business volume is becoming more
and more recognisable or singable and not so much in theoretical terms, but also in
practical terms, and that we now have the situation that nine countries with the head of the
governments and the economic representatives, the ministers being present and and
underlining that it's their own joint targets to develop wind as one of the stronger pillars of
the energy system of the future. So that as such was unique. We have seen before last fall
a meeting where four companies came together. There was the North Sea Summit. Yep, if
you wish, in the poorest book in South Denmark. And and now and then that round has
been enlarged. And that's such absolutely great. The other thing is they kind of almost
doubled the targets for the various aspects of wind and also for offshore. And of course,
then I mean, the question is now, is that no, easy to achieve those targets or not? And
frankly speaking, of the second half of the meeting was dedicated to defining impediments
of what this kind of potentially not functioning and how can that work? And in this context,
however, I believe that there's still a lot of homework to be done because those things we
already mentioned in the first time, like like the issues on permitting or the issues on
building up to the grid or the issues around the auction designs, if auctions are the
mechanism to toward developers was something. So those things have. I've been really
aggressed and that is still on the on the whole. If you wish to do this in this case, not by us,
but by governments mostly.

Stewart Mullin [00:08:07] Yeah, I think it's really fascinating also to hear about other how
Europe's you know, I mean, now I guess we're starting to see offshore wind spread around
the world. You know, U.S. has started to pick up. Well, I guess we're starting to install
more turbines out there. Taiwan, we've got some steel in the water, so to speak. And there
are other markets around the world that are that are you know, the APEC area is starting
to ramp up as well. So it's interesting to see how Europe's reacting to some of these global
challenges and seeing how the rest of the world is developing and responding. I mean, I
got the feeling that the IRA has been a big motivator for companies like Siemens, Gamesa
that actually provides a fairly clear pathway for your investment. And what that means to
invest, is that right?

Jochen Eickholt [00:08:52] Well, in a way, it's going forward. If we discuss the US
business, we typically think of a business which is more or less completely localised.
Certainly when it comes to the manufacture of blades amongst themselves. So the kind of
assembly if you wish. And that localisation obviously will require resources and
investments and those are supported and beyond the pure IRA agreement that also
incentives and possibilities to get support on the, for instance, East coast of the United
States. And this is what it makes a practice to what it makes really attractive to be that.
And also we as one of the players here think that we can we can develop a good market
share in the US.

David Lenti [00:09:43] When we're talking about market share and products. You've
mentioned ourselves. You also mentioned blades just now, York. And I'm also curious
about some of the other developments aside from, you know, just just a regular typical
Stewart mentioned still in the water, but sustainability and how we integrate that into our
products. And I know that we at seems MESA at the Windeurope Conference and Trade
fair a couple of weeks back in Copenhagen, announced the Greener Towers project. Can
you tell us a little bit about that or that The product, I should say, also has been a couple in
a little order also?

Jochen Eickholt [00:10:20] Yeah, Well, I think our products typically by nature is rather
green. And when it comes to recyclability, we've been in a leading position, for instance,
with the blades, because we offer solutions now within the blades, mostly around the
boxes can be recycled rather elegantly now than the latest step or the latest step towards
towards what's a greener world and the use of greener components indeed, was the so-
called Greener Tower. This green, the tower is typically a thing where you have, you know,
a tower which sometimes weighs more than two tonnes. And out of that, typically the vast
majority is still and if you could not make use of steel, which is produced with the help of
less CO2 emissions, and this would be attractive. So what's happened is we've elaborated
on a supply chain which makes use of scrap metal more within half for the facility, for the
melting of the of the steel, a different type of furnace being used. It's an electric arc
furnace. And then there's also, for instance, the possibility to use to use more renewable
energy as such. So there's a couple of things here which if they come together, take us to
a world where the steel which is being used is produced by up to 63% less CO2, and that's
millions of tonnes per tower. So this is why it's so relevant.

David Lenti [00:11:59] That's absolutely fascinating.

Stewart Mullin [00:12:01] It is just sort of.

David Lenti [00:12:02] Just to sort to pardon.

Stewart Mullin [00:12:03] Me, just to dive sorry, just to dive in a little bit different the little
bit deeper here. It seems that like Siemens, Gamesa, you've got a huge range, huge
amount of like activity that you guys have taken on your own responsibility and you're
developing all these great solutions. Is the industry actually prepared to pay for these?
Like can you actually have a do you get a premium from from does that hard work and all
of that R&D and all of the stuff that it takes you, does that get recognised from the
developer side, you know, or is this just part of like, yeah, okay, we've got to get our scope
two emissions out of the, you know, down and that everyone has to pull their part because
this costs this, this cost money. Who pays for this in the end.

Jochen Eickholt [00:12:48] Well in the end of the day there is a yes and no answer to
that. Okay. The components typically are slightly more expensive. It's the full R&D efforts
in the end of the day compensated for in my in my view. Rather No. Yeah, but the
relevance of these components will be increasing. And you have an increasing number of
customers who are interested. And after the publication of these concepts, for instance, on
the Green A Tower, there's been other customers than the chosen ones approaching me
directly and say, Look, we want to do this as well. I mean, you just need to tell me. So I
believe early or later is perhaps becoming a little bit more of the stem. Yeah. So going
forward in a couple of years, I would assume these things become more like an hygiene
factor of what's being offered right now. It's an extra costs extra money and some
customers are prepared to pay for it, others not.

Stewart Mullin [00:13:51] I guess I guess that's pretty much like the whole offshore wind
value chain. You know, when we're trying to introduce floating offshore wind, we know that
that's the introduction of that's going to cost a little bit more to start with. And then over
time, when we get the scale built out, then we can perhaps say this you the price has
come down again. But I know just sometimes I think that the industry we we do all of these
we have all these expectations that we will continue to have to invest in R&D and yet we
don't necessarily always provide the baseline funding for us to be able to do that. But I
guess you guys, you guys know that much better than I do, and you probably can't say
that much because all of your customers, all of your customers are listening. Come on.
Okay. This is what they think.

Jochen Eickholt [00:14:29] And I think I think indeed the economic situation of of of our
industry space is not the easiest one. And that is then specifically relevant when we're
discussing large figures of. Growth because in the end of the day, perhaps the extension
of capacities can be seen as something which easily, easily can, can, can use up money,
substantial money. An additional plant can easily go beyond €500 million. And therefore,
it's relevant.

Stewart Mullin [00:15:03] Yeah, I've got a follow up question there, but I know, David, you
want to round out the last point.
David Lenti [00:15:07] Yeah. Just wanted to ask you again if we're talking about €500
million for per, per factory and the three biggest OEMs in the sphere now, so Siemens,
Gamesa, GE, Vestas are all publicly struggling financially. How do you see governments
supporting all of us? So the benefits, especially for machinists, conveys a perspective in
getting the funding towards building out this capacity to meet the targets which are their
individual. National goals.

Jochen Eickholt [00:15:39] Yeah, well, there's a couple of discussions ongoing. There's a
couple of considerations on how to support factories and other activities. We typically
distinguish between innovation related activities, like we develop something new or
different technology and capacity related activities, like we would like to enhance our
capacities and perhaps with this also generates additional employment. Yeah. And these
things, these things are being looked at and there is some movement, but not enough
clearly. I mean, if we consider, for instance, opening a new plant, then there is a massive
need for additional support. Otherwise it won't be possible. And that is what's currently
been in discussions and in articulation by us in those countries. Whether is.

Stewart Mullin [00:16:36] Yeah. So one of the anyone that listens to the Offshore Wind
podcast regularly knows that they can't go an offshore wind podcast without me
mentioning Australia. And I think Australia is one of those interesting markets where I think
the traditional OEMs have strong presence on the in the onshore space and there's a lot of
hydrogen and onshore wind and hydrogen, etc. now that we're getting into the offshore
wind space and we had a Victorian delegation at Wind Europe recently, we've had the
Australian Energy Minister in Europe and we've had the Victorian Energy Minister in
Europe. And so this is a country that has, I think like it's, you know, the initial project is for
two gigawatts and yet we've got people trying to work out how to, how to get how can we,
you know, attract the supply chain and what do we need to do to attract the supply chain.
And for me, I mean, we try to, I guess, explain to the the stakeholders in the in the market
that we have to be realistic and we have to start to look at the supply chain maybe on a
regional basis. And we also have to look at the consequences of having, you know, no one
wants stranded assets anywhere. But I was just wondering, like for for a market like
Australia, you know, how do you actually have these conversations with the politicians in a
market to kind of, you know, maybe get them to increase their volume to a point where
they can actually have a supply chain or maybe temper their expectations completely,
saying, okay, look, in this market in those years, it's going to be really difficult for you to get
capacity.

Jochen Eickholt [00:18:11] You know, it's it's a need and not a not fully solved question.
And specifically, Australia for me is a market which I find attractive in those various
dimensions. You mentioned clearly the ramp up for me for Australia as such is not a
solved question by now and since it does require substantial innovation still but also
substantial investment beyond that, in my view, it would be difficult for all the classical
players to actually go for those investments without any further support.

David Lenti [00:18:50] What country. So a lot of the stuff we all talk about doing difficulties
in industry and so on. On on a positive note, though, changing gears a little bit, where are
some of the countries that you see really excellent developments and growth opportunities
that are more real than imagined?

Stewart Mullin [00:19:06] I don't say more real than he told me when I was in Brazil and
Australia. Just, you know, all of the people.
David Lenti [00:19:15] Are I'm with you all the way.

Stewart Mullin [00:19:16] We know that the we know that the Canadian energy minister
also listens to the podcast. So we have to be careful who we say it was.

David Lenti [00:19:22] Everybody likes the Australians. Everybody likes the Canadians.
Fully agree.

Stewart Mullin [00:19:26] Sorry. Anyway, the more real markets.

David Lenti [00:19:29] Talk and I called instead of you Stewart Molly York and please
some some other areas where you said I think I.

Jochen Eickholt [00:19:36] Think I think I see positive developments all over the place. I
think the the principal stopping point of all that is that I think many really many have
identified wind as one of the stronger pillars of the energy system for the future. So
depending a little bit on the country, you sometimes have different concepts. And so
sometimes it wants to be complemented with solar and sometimes batteries. But in the
end of the day, every big concept for systems of the future does contain wind. So therefore
we see we see strong roles in many regions. Some regions are more mature than others.
For me, for instance, Northern Europe continues to be strong and will be strong in both
onshore and offshore. We've talked about Australia, but we also see places like the US
where in my view, the offshore development hasn't even really started yet onshore is kind
of kind of coming up again quickly after the IRA, the Infection Reduction Act, and we then
see places like India where I think now also there is the huge amounts of need or a huge
need for for for wind energy and that so far is still to be elaborated. How that works. We, of
course, see the biggest wind nation on earth, that is China. So sometimes the amount of
China alone is more than 50% of the global installations. Yeah, So it's it's happening all
over the place. And this, I believe, is the good news. And we now need to make it happen
in the most elegant way.

Stewart Mullin [00:21:17] You guys published a paper, a white paper, scaling up the
American wind industry. I guess that that's kind of a signal that you really believe that the
US is going to be, you know, that we're actually going to see all those volumes that's been
awarded built out in the timeframe that that we that they announced that they're going to
be built out?

Jochen Eickholt [00:21:39] Yes, absolutely. I mean, we sometimes do observe that

specifically in the US, people should fast. So therefore, we sometimes need to make sure
that we also hit the target. I think it's more than attractive what's published so far. But
please remember the era as such is not defined yet to the necessary extent. So nobody
can calculate right now to us what something on a project specific basis really needs
means. So therefore we need to have a clarification of rules. We need to make sure that
for longer lasting projects we have what we call inflation compensation. Also in the US you
see inflation. We need to make sure that the workforce generation is happening
specifically in the US. We sometimes fight for, for instance, service technicians in the
industry. So that needs to be covered. And then in the end of the day also, and I think this
is also widely known, if you have wind farms and wind turbines installed somewhere and
then you still need to kind of get the energy from A to B, in other words, the grid needs to
be needs to be extended and that which in the US is oftentimes seen as not the strongest
pillar of the system.
Stewart Mullin [00:22:54] In relation to one of the things that we always get asked at the
Global Wind Energy Council is, you know, how big can these offshore wind turbines get?
You know, when's the next generation coming? And when I started, when I started at
Siemens, when I was Siemens wind power back in the day, I think there was a 2.3
megawatt machine being installed offshore. And then we went to the 3.6 and then the six
and then like the eight and now were 16. And you know, and people want a 20 megawatt. I
mean, and if I look at if I look at the bigger challenges, I don't think that we've actually
while the OEMs have done a great job in building the boiler capacity of the turbines, I don't
think that's necessarily resulted in more unit sales around the globe. I think that the unit
sales have been pretty constant. So unless we get a whole lot more unit sales, I mean,
how do we start to build up these bigger machines and then again, you know, like it if we
keep building bigger and bigger and bigger, then it means that the the vessels that we
have. We have currently no longer fit for purpose. So I think that there's a you know, do we
need to reach a plateau and just agree that, okay, that this is going to be the the biggest
turbine that we get and these are going to be the the dimensions of specifications, or is it
still going to be is that competition always going to drive bigger and better?

Jochen Eickholt [00:24:09] Well, there's always an element to that, but I believe the
drivers behind that development also need to be looked at. And typically there's the
economic aspects behind that. So of course, one of the things which are getting bigger,
but then suddenly the related efforts are also the quantification. Efforts maybe, maybe
develop developing exponentially rather than annually. So that is, I think, kind of natural
limits and frankly speaking. But even today, I think the biggest turbines which are installed
on the end of winter, 15 megawatts, are kind of big in my view. So you you have a you
have a platform where you stand on a level of 170 metres above sea level or above the
ground level. You then have blades which are kind of more than 100 metre long already
that I find rather I have to say big. I mean, just having stood on the one of those things.
Yeah, I believe, I believe these machines make you humble as a person. Sure. And then
thinking about those things becoming perhaps 20 or 30% bigger, we have to be extremely
careful on where to propose this and why and the circumstances, because economic
reasoning may require also to go more for higher availability figures or more, let's say, a
combination of cost out and then industrialisation of the products companies. Remember
that even if a wind farm made, let's say, contain 100 or so turbines, this is not really
volume production in the sense of other industries. So one could imagine that this further
costs are to come and the numbers of turbines want to go up. But reliability and availability
and less technical risks may also be of relevance in this discussion. So we haven't really
made up our minds. I wouldn't I wouldn't exclude bigger machines for the future. Right now
I would advise us to be a little careful about the technical risk gambles.

David Lenti [00:26:17] I think one thing that also goes hand-in-hand and as Stuart always
mentions Australia, one thing I always like to try and mention is safety. It's a personal a
personal issue for me. I find it very, very critical and always. Ensure that people
understand the importance of it. Do you see safety performance improving, staying the
same, worsening across the industry?

Jochen Eickholt [00:26:45] I view it as kind of stable at a level which I don't find good
enough. If we look at more classical industries like the oil and gas industries, we also
sometimes have, you know, offshore platforms that only the level of incidence is typically
lower. We put an awful lot of effort internally in the ambulance companies on health and
safety. It's really at the core of our activities. It's really the first topic on the meeting
agenda. We look at numbers and phenomena on a very regular basis. We see a positive
trend towards a reduction in severity of the issues. Still, there are still, in my view, too
many findings or incidents oftentimes not necessary. Often times one would say not
needed. But the overall number of incidents, in my view, is still too high.

Stewart Mullin [00:27:47] Yeah. So I think we are starting to reach the top of the hour and
our time together. And when we get to this stage of the podcast and we like to ask our
guests each week what they have. Has there been anything that's caught their attention of
recent times that they would like to share with the listeners? And I was wondering, you
know, as CEO of Siemens, Gamesa, what's what's been occupying your thoughts of
recent times?

Jochen Eickholt [00:28:16] Well, I mean, it's of course, when things like Copenhagen or
the meeting last week or the week, the follow up meeting where some fewer European
member states meet and meet in Berlin in some different configuration. So it's this this
kind of ongoing discussion on how to speed up and how to substantiate the development
of wind as a pillar for the energy system. And and what's relevant for me in this context is
that, for instance, in China, wind is looked at from a strategic perspective. Strategic means
this thing is mid to long term, very relevant for all of us, and this is why many things have
to be aligned. If we look at if we look at Europe, I think it was established now that wind is
supposed to become one of the pillars of the energy for the future for various reasons.
One is the thing which is called energy sovereignty or independence. Specifically after the
Ukraine war, I think many people know what that is. And at the same time we want to
become green. That was also before the war, and it continues to be the case after the war.
So we need to be as green as possible. Less CO2 is the keyword. What sometimes tends
to be forgotten is we want to have affordable energy. We don't want energy to be a luxury
goods. We also would like to make sure that the Baker shop around the corner still can
exist and that he I mean, he does require energy, so it must be affordable. We would like
to make sure that we are, in my view, independence as Europeans also in a way that we
have to know how base and the capacity base for manufacturing of those elements,
perhaps not everything to one hour percent, but it needs to be there. Please remember
that, for instance, beyond the capacity factor, we also have the questions around
employment and we right now employ in Europe around 300,000 individuals and of course
they are tax payers. But of course we also need to have that small base for the capacities
and that going forward is to increase. So I think with this we sometimes need to be mindful
about how we auction wind farms. If auction is the mechanism to to, to give access to and
to to developers to some wind farm or seabed. It needs to be looked at from the
perspective that we need to protect this know how, and need to make sure that we stay
independent. I'm not a friend of so-called decoupling discussions where specific areas of
the world can become must be copied from. But I think we need to be very mindful about
dependencies, specifically when it comes to specific elements of what we are looking at,
like rare earths or like, for instance, famous glass fibres. So we need to be mindful about
how to handle that and need to translate that into a Yeah, I would say wind or wind
industry specific strategy at European level, which so far is not really there. And please
remember that specifically in Europe we have typically the protection of competition. Very
important element also of the European, very specific sector of the European Commission.
But for industry development, I think we we so far still do not see something which is at
equal level. And that is, I believe, the biggest thing which I would be advocating for, that
we actually do have an industry policy which across the nations makes these things
happen, is looking at, you know, speeding, speeding up all of these things which are
sometimes discussed. We right now have some 80 gigawatts, 88 zero gigawatts of wind in
the permitting process. So somewhere in the permitting process, typically this permitting
process is and positively so you could argue that 80 gigawatts sits somewhere. And if just
the process would be speeded up, then most of that would really come to projects. So that
so far does not happen. And these permitting process sometimes take up to several years,
some of this offshore. So these things need to be looked at, in my view, in order to make
all of us become beneficiaries of this part of the energy system going forward, which will
strive for.

Stewart Mullin [00:32:49] Well, thank you very much for that. That was. Again, that's
actually a whole intro to another podcast. I think we could dive down into each of those
issues. But I mean, that's that's a ridiculous amount of gigawatts to be stuck in, permitting
80 gigawatts of wind in permitting. That's just crazy. I mean, that means that everything's
ready to go. All we're just waiting for is the rubber stamp to actually, you know, drive this.
And then it's just pretty it's it's almost it's an indictment on the system, really, that we
actually have to that we've got that much. But hopefully, I guess that when you speak to
politicians, I don't know how you're greeted when you when you bring that that message to
them. Are they are they actually do you hear see the politicians are actually looking to do
something about it or that they just nod and smile and go, yeah, that's fine.

Jochen Eickholt [00:33:36] Well, it's always it's in the middle. So sometimes they say, we
understand you. Sometimes they say we hear you. So it is not the equivalent. We
understand you. Even if they understand, it's they're not the equivalent. They want to do
something. So that is the difficulty. So sometimes you have to repeat yourself more than
once. Sometimes there are other political considerations, even national political
considerations, which are the obstacle. There's all kinds of things. In Europe. We
unfortunately have 27 countries. So I think it would be easier to understand or to handle
such issues as if there would be one country, in other words, harmonised rules and
regulations.

David Lenti [00:34:17] If we ever just touch upon one more European thing based on the
net zero Industry Act was passed not too long ago. You know, related to how we get closer
to net zero and so on. And I think that's a good example of, if I recall, my numbers are
correct, that we as human beings are the largest employer as part of the the OEM with the
largest industrial footprint in Europe. Is that correct?

Jochen Eickholt [00:34:43] Yes, I think we are. We have we certainly, for instance, in
Denmark, have more employees than than a big Danish competitor. Yeah. And and by and
large, yes, I think we have the largest footprint in Europe.

David Lenti [00:35:01] And that's proof that that's something like that, that when the EU or
other governing bodies make the right decisions, they they pass acts or bills or similar
legislation that they actually absolutely work and are able to provide the stability and the
focus and the solid plans that are not just up in the air to ensure employment, to ensure
development and to ensure deployment of renewable energy.

Jochen Eickholt [00:35:28] Yeah, they just need to do something. And sometimes as
politicians, the issue is around them doing it.

David Lenti [00:35:34] Correct and they need to do so faster.

Stewart Mullin [00:35:35] Yeah, well, but I mean one of our things. Yeah, and I think
UKIP's point also around, you know, the China thing was really interesting take. I hadn't I
hadn't thought about that, you know, how about how the Chinese view wind as a critical
part of the energy mix and we'll do everything they can to to make sure that that works.
And you can see the results in China, what that's meant for the local industry and all that.
And I bet that you just hope that the other other regions of the world and other countries of
the world would follow suit. Look, but I know we've taken up. You have an appointment to
get to another hard stop at the end of the hour. So we need to wrap this up in our look.
David, is do you have anything that caught your attention of recently?

David Lenti [00:36:14] I did find it interesting that the Canadian province of Nova Scotia
announced plans for up to five gigawatts with the first lease areas expected to be available
or at least auctioned off by 2026. That's, I find, extremely ambitious, also extremely
encouraging coming from that part of the world myself, Massachusetts native not too far
from Nova Scotia and back to you.

Stewart Mullin [00:36:39] STEWART Well, actually, the good news here is it isn't actually
vineyard sailing out from Nova Scotia like that. I think they're just doing this I from Nova
Scotia. So some of the stuff.

David Lenti [00:36:49] I'll have to ask some of our some of our former some of our other
industry colleagues at Vineyard Wind. So I'm not aware of that.

Stewart Mullin [00:36:55] Yeah. So I guess from my own point of view is that we are
looking to have a big week is looking to have a big impact offshore wind and green
hydrogen summit in August this year. And we just had confirmation it's going to be in
Melbourne, Australia of course. Where else would we choose to have this for the region?
But we just had an announcement that it's going to be a global offshore wind alliance
moment. So we expect that that Australia will lead that and Australia and Japan will lead
that and we've had confirmation that it will be getting delegations from Vietnam, the
Philippines, Sri Lanka, India that you mentioned, also York. And as an important market,
Korea, Japan and the west coast of the U.S. are all going to be heading down to the APEC
area. So if we need to have that up, good. Anyway, that brings us to the top of the hour,
David.

David Lenti [00:37:50] And remember, listeners, you can find us here, the Offshore Wind
podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your favourite
shows.

Stewart Mullin [00:38:00] And always, if you like what you've heard, please leave a
review. And if you don't like what you heard, David's always open to take complaints. He
loves to hear from you when you're when you're a bit angry. So please direct a lot to
David. Anyway, look, thank you very much. Can I call the CEO of Siemens Gamesa
Renewable Energy? Thank you, David. And thank you, listeners. Catch you next time.

And thank you for listening to the Offshore Wind podcast hosted by Stuart Mullen and
David Leno. We hope that you've learned something new today, and if you've any further
questions, feel free to send an email to info at TWC CS dot net. The Offshore Wind
podcast is powered by Siemens Gamesa Renewable Energy.