Symbolism of the Black Madonna: A Jungian Perspective

An Interview with Judy Zappacosta, M.A., by Bonnie Bright, Ph.D.

Sandplay therapist, Judy Zappacosta, first became

interested in the Black Madonna at a suggestion from
Dora Kalff, founder of Sandplay therapy, to
visit one of the mysterious iconic figures in Einsiedeln,
Switzerland. Zappacosta was immediately drawn into the
"silence and dark interiority of the Black Madonna, and has
made an extensive exploration of the history and symbolism
associated with her.

In this interview with Bonnie Bright for Depth Insights™,

Zappacosta reveals the powerful and evocative significance of
Black Madonna figure from a Jungian and depth psychological
perspective, and shares how she can impact us both
individually and collectively. Zappacosta is co-leading a 14-day
pilgrimage to Black Madonna sites in Northern Spain in May,
2018.

Listen to the interview on DepthInsights.com, or read the written transcript below.

Learn more about Judy Zappacosta and the 14-day Black Madonna Pilgrimage at CaringForTheSoul.org

****

BB Hello, and welcome to Depth Insights, where we take a depth psychological look at news
and events that are going on in your world. I'm Bonnie Bright, and I'm the host of Depth
Insights, and today my guest is Judy Zappacosta, who is a Licensed Marriage and Family
Therapist and also a certified Sandplay Teacher. And Judy has become very interested in
what is known as the Black Madonna, so we're going to be talking about that, and also
about the pilgrimage that Judy is co-leading in May of 2018. That pilgrimage is a 14-day
event called “In Search of the Black Madonna,” which will take participants to some of the
oldest and most interesting Black Madonna sites in Northern Spain. So, this is a very exciting
opportunity for anybody who's interested in some travel, some history, and also obviously a
Jungian perspective, which we'll be talking about today. Judy, thank you so much for
spending some time with me today. Welcome to Depth Insights.

JZ Thank you so much. Glad to be with you.

Copyright Depth Insights 2018. 1 www.depthinsights.com

BB Well, I'm really happy to have you with me. I'm going to go ahead and read your bio before
we jump into the conversation so that people have more of a background on you, and then
we'll get to all the good stuff just as soon as we can do that.

JZ Okay.

BB Judy Zappacosta, MFT, is a Certified Sandplay Teacher and Sandplay Therapist of America,
(also known as STA) and the International Society for Sandplay Therapy, the ISST. She has
maintained a private practice for adults, children, and families on the Monterey,
California, coast for over 30 years. The focus of her practice is Jungian Psychotherapy,
Sandplay, Dreams, and the integration of Psyche and Soma. She consults and supervises
therapists using Sandplay and publishes and teaches both nationally and internationally. She
is Assistant Editor for the Journal of Sandplay Therapy and editor of Pearls: Defining
Moments in Our Lives, published in 2014. Judy was trained in Sandplay by Dora Kalff—who
most of you will know is the founder of Sandplay—and she completed the Body, Soul.
Rhythms Leadership Training Program with Marion Woodman Foundation. She teaches
summer programs for caring for the soul offering two-week intensive for Sandplay training
in Switzerland and pilgrimage trips to Black Madonna sites in Northern Spain and soon
Southern France. And of course, we mentioned that a little bit right at the beginning. So,
Judy, you have such a really diverse background and of course, I'm always fascinated by the
many aspects that Sandplay brings into any kind of a mix. It's really a unique practice, and
while the focus of our conversation today will be primarily on the Black Madonna, I'm
wondering if there's any correlation between the two that we should know about as we
jump into the conversation here. Can you share a little bit about what a Black Madonna is
first of all, and then how you became interested in it?

JZ Well, I think it's actually not too far a leap if you think of Sandplay as offering the ability to
touch the Earth as sand as a symbolic kind of holder or matter and earth. And that the Black
Madonna actually is very much related to the Earth's landscapes—found many, many eons
ago which relationship even back to the early goddesses. So, we're talking today about a
deep connection to what is nature, what is matter, what is earth, and what constitutes the
divine feminine. I first got interested in the Black Madonna after Dora Kalff suggested when
I was doing my Sandplay process with her to take a trip to Einsiedeln, which is where one of
the more prominent Switzerland Black Madonna cathedrals is found. And after making that
pilgrimage to visit that particular Madonna, I was very, very moved by the essence of sitting
before a feminine dark figure that had such a deep interiority, maybe, to her that she just
pulls you in, into darkness, into silence, and actually into mystery.

BB Yes. And, of course, this is the thing that's so intriguing about her—has always been to me
as well. And what we do know—I guess maybe we should establish that for those who
aren't as familiar with the concept—what we do know is that the Black Madonnas seem to
be sort of found around the world. There are hundreds of them if not more, mostly in
cathedrals or gracing shrines—often sacred sites, obviously. And they are something of a
mystery though, aren't they? Because they apparently originated in early Christianity, but
I'm sure if it's in your studies and engagement with the Black Madonna, you have come
across different explanations for why they exist.

Copyright Depth Insights 2018. 2 www.depthinsights.com

JZ Well, it's actually really interesting because there's
often a suggestion, "Well, she's black because she's
Black." Or "Well, so many people have lit candles at
the foot of her altars that she just naturally turned
black from the soot of all the wax that has burned
before her." But ultimately, there's been no way to
know for sure what the direct connections are. But
certainly, Marie-Louise von Franz suggested that the
Black Madonna actually came back through
historically from Isis, and the feted throne of Horus,
and that this is the beginning kind of that was coming
actually out of the goddess sites that were also found
in southern Europe, southern France. Many of the
sites-- the ones that belong now to the church—often
sit right upon older goddess sites. So, it's interesting
that there's a quality of relationship that reaches far,
far back, and that we continue to kind of have to
suggest what would make her black, why did she show
up as black. But for most people, she represents something that has perhaps been hidden
away, perhaps rejected. She shows up as a figure, and particularly for peoples that have
been marginalized, and interestingly enough, although the churches are where she's found,
it's actually the people that take ownership in the region where she lives or she is
venerated. There's an ownership that is taken up by the local people, that they are the
keepers of—they'll say—"of the Lady." So, the Lady is part of their lives in a very everyday
way where they go and they change her clothing; they have festivals, dances, lots of
relationship to fertility, and motherhood, and things that bring them close to the people
that are beyond the church's style of owning a particular icon, or a particular way of
venerating her. The Black Madonna seems to have slipped through ownership by the
church, although she lives within chapels all through the places that you usually find her. But
where she's been found is often way upon rural wild wilderness places, less-traveled
regions—lots of different ways that she has always been discovered.

BB You know, it's interesting because you had mentioned the mystery, and even as you're
speaking and I'm listening to you describe the relationship that local people seem to have
with her, for example, and how she is located in these sort of out-of-the-way places, it
makes me think that—as you say, we'll never know—but this deep history that seems to
accompany her wherever she goes, and that actually goes back to maybe even the Great
Mother Goddess, is something that is so profoundly appealing, and yet it's not surprising to
me on some level that, as you said, some churches have tried to describe a way the
blackness of her skin by the candle soot, or that they have not really maybe necessarily
given her the credit for the goddess because that would be contradictory obviously to some
of their own needs. I'm really familiar with the stories of how Isis has black skin, obviously
coming out of Egypt, and also there's been some portrayals of Artemis, who I've been very
interested in for a long time as well as having black skin. And I know for anybody who's ever
visited Ephesus in Turkey, which is the site of the great temple of Artemis. That's also said to
be a place where Mary perhaps had residence, and so I'm wondering if you can say a little
bit more about the connection that she has to these goddesses and maybe about the
worship of the great goddess.

Copyright Depth Insights 2018. 3 www.depthinsights.com

JZ Well, if you think about the early goddesses—what was venerated—they were often
celebrated with what was the agricultural kind of diversity of the land: wheat, animals,
seeds, pine cones, early grain, almonds. And if you look—particularly in Italy—Lucia
Birnbaum wrote a book on the Black Madonnas of Italy, and she traces all the way back to
the early goddesses all of the early celebrations. And if you look back into those early
celebrations, they had a lot to do with what was growing in the region. So it's interesting
that as you move forward and these Black Madonnas are venerated in this piece of time,
she carries the relationship to regeneration and the idea of seeds, black rice that cooked in
her honor in Italy, local milk, cocoa, cinnamon, sugar, toasted almonds are all found within
festivals and pilgrimages that have the Black Madonna association. If you go back to Ean
Begg’s work—he wrote the book, The Cult of the Black Virgin—he talked about Mary (as one
of the reasons and why she's black) is that Mary lived in a hot climate and she would have
been they said quite sunburnt. So perhaps that was one of the reasons why she showed up
as a darker image, darker brown, because of the early portraits. So it's interesting, they try
to reach back and find explanations of this how, this is why—but you really have to go back
to the early goddesses like Cybele, Isis, Sarah, Persephone—who was thrown into the
underworld into the dark—and they all have an early kind of precursor relationship to what
later becomes kind of a veneration of Black Madonnas.

BB Yeah, I'm laughing still at the sunburnt idea. Of course, we know as we begin to look back
into those goddesses and obviously to symbolism that many of the goddess images portray,
and the association for example with the moon and the phases of the moon and, of course,
the darkness of the moon, I think that we begin to start to see much more clearly some
examples of what the symbolism of the Black Madonna might be. Who is really I guess if you
could look at it from the standpoint the sort of the great goddess in disguise, let's say
through the synchretization that's happened of bringing these ancient goddesses and rituals
into the church when it came up. And this way people are able to keep those sorts of rituals
and beliefs alive and yet integrate them over time into maybe their current belief systems
that exist within an organized religion or church.

JZ I think you're absolutely right. And that's how these kinds

of archetypal energies go underground for many eons of
time as we know that there was these early
goddess….almost kind of a religion and a way of life that
was there…and then re-emerge when the time seems to be
right. And the earliest times it seems to be, right, when you
look historically, is almost back to the 12th century. And in
the 12th century is when the idea of the cathedral actually
became an important part of city life. There was never
anything that was called “city” until the 12th century. And
the idea of “university,” and learning, and intellectual
expansion began to happen then. So, it's interesting that
the divine feminine has been around in many different
renditions for many, many eons of time. Particularly the
Black Madonna—because she relates to nature, fertility,
and the earth—has a much more human connection than
sometimes the Madonna or the Virgin Mary of the church in a more Catholic style would be
seen as virginal, perfection, untouchable….kind of the Immaculate Conception idea, where
the Black Madonna is very much alive in terms of the people's ability to be close to her, to

Copyright Depth Insights 2018. 4 www.depthinsights.com

 relate to her, to find ways to see their own lives mirrored in how and what she represents.
That's one of the reasons why she's often called the Lady of the Forest, or the Lady of the
Snow, or the Lady of the Cave as Montserrat is often referred to, or the Lady of the
Mountaintop. She's often called by many different names and that's why I think the people
have a much closer relationship to her sometimes than other kind of really religious icons.

BB I'm so interested in the many different names of her. And I got really interested in the Black
Madonna when I was reading a novel called The Secret Life of Bees which probably you're
familiar with that people may have heard of.

JZ Absolutely. Absolutely.

BB So, it shows up as a theme in there, and I was doing the symbolic interpretation or
assessment of this novel, The Secret Life of Bees. And what I realized in that particular book
is that—and actually, this is something that Fred Gustafson, who's a Jungian analyst who has
written about the Black Madonna….I'm sure you are also familiar with that work—he says
that the Virgin Mary is one side of the life principle, the light and feminine side of it. But the
Black Madonna kind of picks up another side of the life principle and that is this capacity or
opportunity for us to explore the deeper side of the psyche—the darker side; the side that
may not always be positive, but may have really rich rewards for us if we're actually willing
to come into some kind of relationship with that.

JZ I think we're in such need at this particular time to find a new balance point between light
and dark and just the collective universals that are around us right now, that we're living
particularly in a time of what probably many would refer to as “shadow.” And yet within the
darkness is the light, and within the light is the darkness, and that really is the challenge and
the task of coming into relationship with an archetype. It always will hold both sides of a
tension of opposites, if you will.

BB Yeah. Absolutely. And you're pointing to something really important and that is that we are
in great need of this particular aspect of exploration right now and relationship in our lives,
and it makes me think about that book, for example, that I mentioned, The Secret Life of
Bees…It's quite a contemporary book. And I noticed that the Black Madonna, it does seem
to be showing up in various kinds of pop culture. And also, I noticed a number of books
coming out, particularly from the Jungian world, but from others as well about exploring
her. So, can you say a little bit more about what you see her offering as a symbol to us as a
culture and as individuals?

JZ Well, if you have any belief right now that the patriarchy as we know it is kind of beginning
to break apart and break down by our institutions, by everything that we're kind of thrown
up against right now. You can suggest to yourself or at least consider that if things are
breaking down, it also makes room for something new to emerge or merge. And if, in fact,
we have energies that are archetypal and connected to a deeper feminine earth quality,
then it would suggest that this energy of the Black Madonna has always been there. It's kind
of been what Marianne Woodman would say, it had been smoldering and now begins to
threaten and erupt in a way, in our planet, on our planet, and demand kind of a more
conscious recognition. So, that would be redeeming, kind of redeeming what we have
rejected, hidden, or not wanted to make room for as a balance point, which could also, for

Copyright Depth Insights 2018. 5 www.depthinsights.com

 many us, be considered the re-emergence of the divine feminine as something that had
been cast aside or relegated as an unimportant piece during this kind of rise of reason,
enlightenment, and, ultimately, a patriarchal way of life that's become too one-sided. And if
we believe that things can become too one-sided, then really what the Black Madonna
offers us is a balance point to come back into relationship with that which would be a
balancer for becoming too one-sided in our belief systems.

BB Yes. It's so important, of course. And as we know, Jung talked quite frequently and
profoundly about that need for balance. I'm wondering, actually, as you're talking about
this…because for me, the symbolism is really moving and I find that there's something about
it that has grasped me and makes me want to delve into that mystery a little bit more. You
even used the word smoldering, which I thought was a very interesting choice of words
because it seems so representative of what we're talking about here. How do you think,
though, that people, ordinary people like us and others who might be listening to this, can
actually engage into that relationship? Do you have suggestions about how we can begin to
avail ourselves of that energy that exists through the Black Madonna and begin to
incorporate that in some creative way?

JZ Well, it was interesting: we did a group study trip last May and we were with 15
participants, and we were in the middle of Barcelona, where there is not a Black Madonna
until you get to Montserrat, which is far out of Barcelona. But I set the group on a task. I
said, "I want you to go into Barcelona this afternoon and wander the alleyways, wander the
streets, and just look in a large urban city for the pulse of the feminine." And people looked
at me and said, "Well, what do you mean the pulse of the feminine?" And I said, "Well, look
for things that feel representational of what the feminine might be—seen in art, in
advertising, in window shopping… Where do you see a divine or spiritual element of the
feminine emerge?" And people came back with the most wonderful images that they took,
of course, with their cellphone cameras all
over town. But some of it was actually quite
interesting because it was graffiti, it was
literally graffiti: A woman drawn in chalk—
white chalk on a black wall who had many
feet that were dancing in every direction
and holding bushels of wheat. It was a very
kind of primitive and archaic but very timely
kind of image of the feminine in an urban
setting. And other people came back with
spiral that they'd seen on the walls and
some kind of rendition of architectural
design. And foods, that actually—as I
mentioned before—are a natural
connection to Black Madonna: energies that
are kind of celebrated and remembered. I
mean, I had a grandmother that used to
make crescent-moon sesame cookies. And
those crescent moons were beautiful
renditions. You could think of them as the
moon, or as the horns of the bull which
often relate back all the way back to Isis.

Copyright Depth Insights 2018. 6 www.depthinsights.com

 You can see that the sesame seeds, the early kinds of grains, still follow and come through
the everyday life of people. Whether you be in Spain, Italy, France. Le Puy, France, is known
for its lentils. And what's in Le Puy, France?—A beautiful rendition of a Black Madonna, two
in fact. One is called “The Egyptian,” and one who’s actually called The Virgin of Le Puy. So
isn't interesting that the everyday is right before us around the symbolism of the Black
Madonna.

BB That's beautiful. I love that because what we're really talking about is how she represents, I
think, the unconscious. And so finding ways through symbols that unconscious can manifest
itself into some kind of consciousness, which we can then come into some kind of
relationship with, I think, obviously, that's what depth psychological work is about for me,
quite profoundly. And I love the idea of you giving participants the task of going around the
city and looking for these kinds of emanations or manifestations, because we know they are
in front of us all of the time. And when we begin to look at the signs and symbols that
emerge, then we can begin to bring some kind of context to whatever it is that we're
looking at. It occurs to me as we were talking about the darkness and the black and the
unconscious, that this probably relates to alchemy in some way because you have the
nigredo state, or the dark or blackened state, which is the raw material the prima materia
that you start with when you're looking at an alchemical process. Without going all into it, of
course, we know that Jung really saw alchemy as the individuation process, the process of
developing ourselves and becoming more whole.

JZ Well, I would just suggest to you that you're absolutely right. The world of alchemy, and the
world of the tarot card—which has the major Arcana archetypes—all came into this 12th
century period where esoteric teachings, schools of initiation. The Black Virgins, Ean Begg
says, are often associated with all of these things and alchemy as well. So, it's not a far
reach, and if you remember in the 12th century we had what was called the troubadours
who were the singers and the oral history tellers of the stories. And they were most active
during that time as well. So they became kind of the folks that would pass along these
messages and underground parts of the church that were not any longer being venerated by
the so-called “church of the day.” But they lived on with the people and I think that's the
local kind of color, and The Secret Life of Bees where the label of the honey had the Black
Madonna image on it. I mean, I think that's exactly how it lives on and lives through. And
also through the world of
animals and instinct, because
most of all the stories and
legends of the Black Madonna,
there's an animal—an ox, a
cow, a bull—that begins to dig
somewhere on the hillside, and
the poor shepherd goes looking
to see what's going on. And
suddenly, there's a sacred well
that holds a beautiful icon of a
Black Madonna that's
uncovered by an animal, not a
person. So that brings us to the side of the instincts being very, very enlivened and part of
the story here as well.

Copyright Depth Insights 2018. 7 www.depthinsights.com

BB Oh, that's great. I've never heard that about the animals but it makes so much sense to me,
and again, it takes me back to Artemis who I mentioned I was so interested in before. And of
course, Artemis has a connection to bees, which I'm interested in. So I'm kind of making
these links as your talking about it. I have to say, we're talking about the ways that she
manifests and I think what we're talking about here is the ways we can start noticing in our
own lives places where Black Madonna imagery or symbolism might be showing up. Have
you noticed or heard stories of her emerging in people's dreams as well?

JZ Absolutely. Marion Woodman was most classic in her explanation and her understanding
because she was very, very interested in the Black Madonna, as well as the energy that was
reemerging during this time. But she'd often say that women that were coming into
relationship again with their natural feminine impulse would often begin to dream of
perhaps just a woman that was cleaning or sweeping in the room, that would be part of the
dream material: a stranger that was standing in the shadows; or a child that was found at
the bottom of the stairs that one had to climb down, down, down below normal flooring to
find what was either lost or hidden that needed to be brought up into the light of day—or
we would say in a Jungian sense—brought into consciousness in a some new way. So this
idea of a locked away bird, locked away piece of potential that the child often symbolically
holds, or the woman in the corner that can't
quite be made out but she seems to be
sweeping and cleaning. So, in dream world—
men and women's dreams—there seems to be
a lot of imagery that would suggest that dark
unknown aspects that need to be brought into
some new light or understanding are waiting
for us; are waiting for us now at this particular
time. And that has such relationship to our
recovering the health of the earth—as well as
anything else— is that what we are not paying
attention to is sometimes right before our very
eyes in terms of how we take care of; how we
learn to teach children to recycle; how we
teach our own families to take actions that
ultimately are in behalf of the earth. And if we
go further than that, then we say in behalf of
an archetypal holding of earth, goddess,
mother—you know, our earth mother.

BB Yeah, I can really begin to see how critically important she is, and I really appreciate the way
you explain that. And other things that are also emerging for me is you talk about that is I
can imagine she’s showing up in issues around self-care, for example—these things that
need to be brought to our consciousness that need to be addressed. And then also in a
wider world for any groups that are facing injustice or things that have been marginalized,
voices that are not brought forward or allowed to be brought forward. I mean, there's a lot
going on in our world today so I'm sure we can probably point to almost any situation and
see places in which those kinds of things need to be brought to consciousness and then to
be addressed and to be tended and to be dealt with. And of course, she is a Madonna still,

Copyright Depth Insights 2018. 8 www.depthinsights.com

 and so that brings forth the whole mothering aspect, too, and an opportunity for caring and
tending.

JZ That's right. And that winds us back to those parts of ourselves psychologically that we have
either rejected, or not paid enough attention to, or not believed we were worthy of. Clarissa
Pinkola Estés has had a newer publication out called Untie the Strong Woman. And in her
book, she talks about the Black Madonna as well, and her grandmother's way of burning
wood sometimes in the fires of their garden, looking for the embers that shaped (by what
was left in the ashes) a shape of what she called the “Dark Madonna.” And evidently, her
grandmother then would use those in her vegetable gardens to help the vegetables grow
with somehow renewed strength and regeneration. But it's a beautiful story of thinking
about regeneration of the earth, caretaking the earth, and if we think of that also as
caretaking our own bodies as matter. Clarissa talks about “SHE” (with a big capital S-H-E)
carries the ember through every dark as the image of the Black Madonna. I think that's
beautiful way of thinking.

BB I do too.

JZ Yeah. Beautiful way of thinking about it that as we kind of look around us, that's exactly is
how do we see this energy integrated as part of our life, and then how do we help
regenerate and bring it more alive, and enliven it at this particular time. Because I think it is
the energy that we have been lacking and then sorely out of balance with.

BB It is such as an evocative image, that of an ember. It does really speak to what you've been
talking about—the regeneration bringing things back to life and enlivening them. It's really
wonderful. I so appreciate your knowledge. And I'm really excited to hear about the
pilgrimage that you're planning to Spain. I know a few lucky people will be able to join you
for that. Do you want to just say, as we wrap up here, a few words about what that
experience is going to be like?

JZ Well, I think anybody's who's interested could look forward

to really not only just visiting a site, but learning how to
have sort of an intention of bringing it alive inside their
bodies, so that after a trip like that that, you just don't go
home and say, "Gosh. I took this wonderful trip to Northern
Spain"—that you come back actually with a feeling of how
to live with some of these energies very much alive in you.
And the ways we do that have a lot to do with the activities
that we do in the afternoon of our travel days to integrate,
which oftentimes may be doing mandalas. We may be
doing prayer bundles. We may be finding our own stillpoint
and standpoint as we watch and see how these Madonnas
are shaped, held, and venerated. So, we try to really bring
it alive in a very kind of conscious, personal, somatic way so
that you come home with something in your body not just
in your mind.

Copyright Depth Insights 2018. 9 www.depthinsights.com

BB That sounds really lovely. Well, I'm so thrilled to be able to learn more about the Black
Madonna. Judy, it's been just really exquisite to hear you describe her, and I really wish you
all the best of luck with the pilgrimage. You’ve inspired me to take more notice of the places
in my own life where the Black Madonna is showing up. I've been speaking with Judy
Zappacosta, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist and also a certified Sandplay
teacher. And of course, as we've been talking about, Judy is co-leading a 14-day pilgrimage,
“In Search of the Black Madonna,” to some of the oldest and most interesting Black
Madonna sites in Northern Spain. And of course, that will include a Jungian perspective and
all kinds of activities as Judy's just been mentioning. And if you want to know more about
that pilgrimage, or about any of Judy's work, you can find out more at
www.caringforthesoul.org. Judy, thank you so much for spending some time with me today.

JZ Thank you, Bonnie

JUDY ZAPPACOSTA, MFT, is a Certified Sandplay Teacher, in Sandplay

Therapists of America (STA) and the International Society for
Sandplay Therapy (ISST). She has maintained a private practice for
adults, children and families on the Monterey, California, coast for
over 30 years; the focus of her practice is Jungian psychotherapy,
sandplay, dreams, and the integration of psyche and soma. She
consults and supervises therapists using sandplay, and publishes and
teaches both nationally and internationally. She is Assistant Editor for
the Journal of Sandplay Therapy and Editor of Pearls: Defining
Moments in our Lives, published in 2014. Judy was trained in Sandplay
by Dora Kalff and completed the BodySoul Rhythms® Leadership
Training Program with the Marion Woodman Foundation. She
teaches summer programs for Caring for the Soul offering two week
intensives for Sandplay training in Switzerland and pilgrimage trips to
Black Madonna sites in Northern Spain and soon, Southern France.

BONNIE BRIGHT, Ph.D. is the creator and Executive Editor of Depth

Insights journal, and the Founder and Director Emeritus of Depth
Psychology Alliance™. She also established Depth Psychology List™, a
site to find or list depth psychology-oriented therapists and
practitioners. She regularly conducts audio and video interviews for
Depth Insights. Bonnie earned M.A. degrees in Psychology from
Sonoma State University, and in Depth Psychology from Pacifica
Graduate Institute in Santa Barbara, CA, where she also completed
her Ph.D. She is a certified Archetypal Pattern Analyst™ via Assisi
Institute. She has a deep interest in Transpersonal psychology,
Ecopsychology, and dream work, and has trained extensively in the
Enneagram, and in Holotropic Breathwork, developed by Stan and
Christina Grof. She has also completed a 2-year training in Indigenous
African Spiritual Technologies with African elder, Malidoma Somé,
and has worked with indigenous healers in Africa, South America, and
the U.S.

Copyright Depth Insights 2018. 10 www.depthinsights.com