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 Engine Performance + Maintenance

No power after distributor swap

 Sergey Mytsa ·  Apr 9, 2021

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Apr 9, 2021  #1

Sergey Mytsa
S Newbie

First post. Appreciate everyone on this forum.

You all help thousands of people like me and I
hope to return the favor if I can.

1995 K1500 5.7 with about 180k.

Truck was sitting all winter. Went to start it,

battery dead, no surprise. Charged the battery,
cranks but no start. Checked for spark, none.
Checked for spark from the ignition coil wire,
nothing. Replaced ignition coil. Still no spark.
Replaced ignition control module, still won't
start. Finally replaced the distributor and it
starts. I tried to mark the position of the
original distributor and match the new one but
that didn't go well apparently.

At first, it started but ran super rough and

stalled after a few seconds. I then adjusted the
distributor by ear and got it to idle pretty
smooth. Let it warm up and decided to drive it
down the driveway. Well, it had no power under
the slightest load. Revs up nice in neutral but
any incline or acceleration and it wants to stall.
Obviously I need to adjust the timing. Will run
to town to get a timing light in the morning.

My question is if there's anything else other

than timing that I should think about and look
into. I'm trying to speed up getting it running
and reduce the number of trips to town. If it
seems to idle well, can timing be that far off?
Is there anything else i need to check?

Thanks in advance.

mattillac and HotWheelsBurban

Apr 10, 2021  #2

PlayingWithTBI
2022 Truck of the Year Supporting Member

Sergey Mytsa said: 

If it seems to idle well, can timing be that far off?

Yep, It makes a lot of difference. Remember

when you set timing you need to disconnect
the (gray/black) EST bypass wire which is in
the wire loom behind the glove box and set it
to 0* BTDC. You'll get an SES code while doing
this but, just disconnect the battery negative
cable and short it to the positive to reset the
PCM, hook it back up, and see what it does -
good luck!

BTW -

mr_josh and HotWheelsBurban

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Apr 10, 2021  #3

mattillac
Lurker

Welcome to the forum.

How is the gasoline, age / quantity etc.

I am no expert on the matter, but when you

say it sat all winter, that makes me wonder.

Also, I had a 1983 old cultlass years ago that

had the catalytic converter clog up, it started
and ran great, reved up fine, but had no power,
could only idle down the road, we had to unbolt
the converter and run with the open exhaust to
get it home.

Again, makes me wonder if a plugged up

exhaust could cause your symptoms, like did a
animal build a nest in it, sitting all winter.

Best of luck.

HotWheelsBurban

Apr 10, 2021  #4

Schurkey
Supporting Member Supporting Member

Ignition timing, bad gasoline, and clogged

exhaust. Three great suggestions.

Connect a scan tool, look at the data stream.

While you're in there, check for "codes", too.

Verify fuel pressure. I had a fuel pump failure

on a Lumina. If it would start at all, it'd idle
OK. NO power. It would usually stall if I put any
pressure on the gas pedal. A miracle if it got
over 40 mph. Yet it would cruise at 70 pretty
good--if it didn't stall before then. Took me all
day to drive from Reno to Sacramento--about
a hundred miles. The shop I took it to said the
fuel pressure was 7 psi--should be 40-
something.

HotWheelsBurban

Apr 10, 2021  #5

Sergey Mytsa
S Newbie

Thank you all for the suggestions, gentlemen. I

read the posts this morning when I started
working on it again.

Typing up some lessons learned below that I

hope will help someone in the future. If looks
like I'm wrong in my assumptions, I probably
am so feel free to correct me.

Like I said in the original post, the truck would

turn over but not start after sitting for a few
months. I checked for spark at the end of the
spark wire but didn't get any. Also tested for
spark on the ignition coil but didn't get any
either. Replaced the coil. Still no spark.
Replaced the ignition control module, still no
spark.

At this point it was either the distributor or the

crankshaft position sensor. Conflicting
information on the CPS online and at
AutoZone, Advance Autoparts and Napa --
Advance Autoparts said they'd have to special
order it, Napa got me the part the next
morning and AutoZone said the truck isn't
equipped with one. Of the 3, only AutoZone
was correct - 1995 and earlier didn't have a
CPS.

The distributor comes with a new ignition

control module so no need to purchase both.

Getting the timing right was the most

complicated ("scary" is a better word) for
someone like me that's never done it before. I
read all kinds of stuff about finding TDC,
having different computer readers, etc. What I
found is that it isn't that complicated at all.

The long story:

I did mark the position of the rotor and had an
approximate direction of the "back" of the
distributor. While the distributor does have
"lanes" for where it will line up with the
crankshaft (I'm assuming that's what turns it
during cranking), mine didn't line up perfectly.
Inside the distributor shaft, there's a small
"guide" that may also need to be aligned and
may be the reason why the new one didn't line
up just like the old but I obviously couldn't see
inside the engine to know how it sits at the
very bottom. Either way, after getting the new
distributor in place, the timing was quite a bit
off and the engine wouldn't stay running.

The short story:

Install the new distributor and do the best you
can with getting the new one lined up the same
way as the original one. What I mean is mark
which way the rotor is pointing and put the
new one in to match it up. Get it as best as you
can but don't stress over it too much. Once you
get it installed, adjust (i.e. rotate) the
distributor by hand until it sounds like the
motor is idling well.

Once you get that far, get a timing light --

borrow one, get a used one for $20, etc. You
don't need to (at least in my case) find TDC,
check compression on #1 cylinder, etc. if you
have the distributor lined up "pretty close",
your timing will be off but good enough for the
engine to run. Do not forget to unplug the
"timing wire" which is either behind the glove
box or in the engine bay depending on the year
(1995 is behind the glove box). The timing
light showed that my timing was about 8-10
retarded. Being that far off, the engine was
idling really nicely but had absolutely no power
when in gear trying to accelerate even a tiny
bit. In other words, don't be lazy and think
your marking is good enough. Timing it takes
an additional 20 minutes and you'll know it's
running proper.

The toughest part of the job for me was the

distributor bolt. It may have been the original
distributor so maybe the bolt hasn't been
removed in 25ish years. I stripped one
distributor wrench but luckily not the bolt.
Soaking with PB Blaster a few times and
freezing it with the CRC spray may have helped
but still took forever to get it out. Try to get a
6-point 9/16 distributor wrench instead of 12-
point. But... I think an even better option is to
use a 1/4" socket ratchet as it'll (barely!) fit
under the aluminum "upper housing" (i.e. big
round plate). You'll need a pipe to extend the
ratchet and good chance you break your
ratchet (I broke my old Craftsman) but the
distributor wrenches just won't work on a stuck
bolt -- the shape and the length make it
impossible to get good enough torque on the
bolt.

The below are some quick steps that should be

a complete how-to. Although there are many
forum posts and guides, some were for later
models, some were overcomplicated, etc.:

- Mark each plug wire on the distributor cap

and take a picture of it.
- Remove each wire and move it out of the
way. (No need to unplug from each plug and
remove the wires completely like some guides
suggest).
- Remove the intake (I removed all of it to get
out of the way).
- Remove one bolt for a bracket holding some
wiring looms next to the ignition coil on the
passenger side and move it out of the way.
You'll know what I mean when you're there
trying to fit the ratchet.
- From the passenger side of the engine, use a
1/4" ratchet with a 9/16" socket and a small
pipe to loosen the bolt but do not remove it.
The distributor is held down by a bracket and if
the bolt is loose, it can be moved out of the
way to get the distributor out. It's easy to lose
a socket or a bolt back there so another reason
not to remove it. (Don't ask me how I know.)
- Remove the old distributor carefully. Be
careful not to get dirt in the engine when
removing the distributor... it can get really dirty
back there!
- Install new distributor with the rotor and the
distributor housing facing the same direction as
the old distributor. It should align very close to
the old one.
- Plug in each wire to the distributor cap in the
same order they were on old distributor.
- Unplug the "timing wire" behind glove box (or
wherever your model is).
- Tighten the distributor bolt so it doesn't move
around with engine vibrations but loose enough
so that you can twist the distributor.
- Get a timing light and connect the clamp on
cylinder 1 plug wire. Cylinder 1 is at the very
front of the driver side.
- Start the engine. If it idles, rotate the
distributor so the timing light shows it at 0
degrees. If it starts but then stalls out, rotate
distributor by hand in both directions (very
slowly) until you get it to idle and then use
timing light to adjust to 0 degrees.
* I timed it when the engine was barely warm
but checked it again when it was at normal
operating temps to make sure the timing
stayed true.
- Tighten the distributor bolt the rest of the
way (not too tight so you don't piss off the next
guy).
- Unplug the positive and negative battery
cables. Touch the two cables together to unload
any electricity on the system.
- Reconnect the "timing wire".
- Reconnect battery cables.
- Start it up and make sure it runs well and
SES is gone.
- Put the rest of the things back together --
intake, bracket, etc.

Hope this helps someone... and hope I didn't

forget anything. All in all, if things go smoothly,
now that I've done it once, I could probably do
it in 1 about 2 beers. I mean 1 hour.

Surprisingly, the gas was probably 5 months

old (or more since the truck isn't driven much)
but was not the reason for the rough idle and
the lack of power like I and others thought may
be the case.

I also suspected mice chewing wires but didn't

find any. They did bring all kinds of junk into
the intake so make sure you check that if it's
sitting a lot like mine does. Hadn't considered
them building a nest inside of the exhaust
pipes but that's a really good point and will
probably happen one day.

Thanks again for the input and for checking

above for inaccuracies.

Cheers.

HotWheelsBurban

Apr 13, 2021  #6

El Tigre
I'm Awesome

Forced to R&R distributor on my '98 Vortec 5.7

,and was advised to take an old cap. Cut
"windows" in the top being careful not to cut
any spark circuits. Install cap/wires ,and start
engine. Prop open throttle to around 1000 rpm.
Loosen distributor bolt ,and slowly turn from
one direction to the other while watching the
spark path inside the cap. leaning one way
,and then the other as it grows/shrinks in size.
We're looking for the shortest ,straightest
spark . Tighten distributor bolt ,and reinstall
"normal" cap along with spark wires. You
should now be golden. No scan tool ,no
plugging/unplugging ,no fooling.... Worked like
a charm on mine.

Pinger

Apr 13, 2021  #7

Schurkey
Supporting Member Supporting Member

El Tigre said: 

Forced to R&R distributor on my '98 Vortec 5.7 ,and

was advised to take an old cap. Cut "windows" in the
top being careful not to cut any spark circuits. Install
cap/wires ,and start engine. Prop open throttle to
around 1000 rpm. Loosen distributor bolt ,and slowly
turn from one direction to the other while watching the
spark path inside the cap. leaning one way ,and then
Click to expand...
the other as it grows/shrinks in size. We're looking for
the shortest ,straightest spark . Tighten distributor bolt
I've never tried this, but I've heard of it before.
It seems reasonable. I'd like verification that
this gets the cam sensor/crank sensor
alignment within spec. I may look into that
someday, but it's about number two thousand
on my list of priorities.

Turning the distributor on a Vortec does NOT

change the ignition timing. It changes the
rotor-to-cap alignment as you've said, and it
allows the computer to identify the correct
cylinder when there's a misfire. Ignition timing
is NOT affected.

Turning the distributor on a TBI DOES change

ignition timing, but not rotor-to-cap alignment.

TOTALLY different processes, totally different

intentions and outcomes.

Original poster has a TBI. No crankshaft sensor,

the "cam sensor" is the pickup coil which a
Vortec does not use.

stutaeng, Hipster, HotWheelsBurban and 1 other person

Apr 13, 2021  #8

El Tigre
I'm Awesome

It certainly affects PCM detecting an error ,and

triggering a check engine light.

Apr 13, 2021  #9

Schurkey
Supporting Member Supporting Member

El Tigre said: 

It certainly affects PCM detecting an error ,and

triggering a check engine light.

"It"? Which "it" are you talking about?

Kinda guessing Vortec engine, and getting the

Cam Offset (cam sensor to crank sensor
synchronization) within spec.

Apr 14, 2021  #10

Erik the Awful

Supporting Member Supporting Member

El Tigre said: 

was advised to take an old cap. Cut "windows" in the

top

If this is such an issue, why hasn't anyone

marketed the old-school solution, a clear
distributor cap?

EDIT: I just sent United Motor Products an

email asking them if they could make their
DCR820X in clear plastic with brass contacts.
Last edited: Apr 14, 2021

HotWheelsBurban and Pinger

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