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Low Carbon Stabilization and Solidification of
Hazardous Wastes
This page intentionally left blank
Low Carbon Stabilization
and Solidification of
Hazardous Wastes

Edited by
Daniel C.W. Tsang
Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering,
The Hong Kong Polytechnic University, Kowloon, Hong Kong, China

Lei Wang
Institute of Construction Materials, Technische Universität Dresden,
Dresden, Germany
Elsevier
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Publisher: Candice Janco

Acquisitions Editor: Marisa LaFleur
Editorial Project Manager: Aleksandra Packowska
Production Project Manager: Sruthi Satheesh
Cover Designer: Greg Harris
Typeset by MPS Limited, Chennai, India
Contents

List of contributors xi 3. Natural or engineered clays for

stabilization/solidification 31
1. Overview of hazardous waste treatment Yunhui Zhang, Fei Wang, Quanzhi Tian and
and stabilization/solidification Zhengtao Shen
technology 1
3.1 Introduction 31
Xinni Xiong, Yuying Zhang, Lei Wang and 3.2 Natural clays for stabilization/
Daniel C.W. Tsang solidification 32
1.1 Introduction 1 3.3 Engineered clays for stabilization/
1.2 Sustainable waste management 2 solidification 35
1.3 Overview of current waste treatment 3.4 Summary 43
technologies 3 3.5 Future trends 43
1.4 Sustainable stabilization/solidification 7 References 43
1.5 Conclusion and prospects 11
References 11 4. Biocementation technology for
stabilization/solidification of
organic peat 49
2. Green and low-carbon cement for
Sivakumar Gowthaman, Meiqi Chen,
stabilization/solidification 15 Kazunori Nakashima, Shin Komatsu and
Yassine El Khessaimi, Yassine Taha, Abdellatif Satoru Kawasaki
Elghali, Safaa Mabroum, Rachid Hakkou and
4.1 Introduction 49
Mostafa Benzaazoua
4.2 Biocementation technique 51
2.1 Introduction 15 4.3 Materials and methods 52
2.2 Ordinary Portland cement 4.4 Results and discussion 55
stabilization/solidification 16 4.5 Challenges and future prospects 61
2.3 Supplementary cementitious materials 4.6 Conclusions 61
blended ordinary Portland cement-based References 62
stabilization/solidification 17
2.4 Alkali-activated cement-based 5. Biochar for green and sustainable
stabilization/solidification 20 stabilization/solidification 65
2.5 Magnesium-rich cement-based
Liang Chen, Lei Wang, Xinni Xiong and
stabilization/solidification 21
Daniel C.W. Tsang
2.6 Special cement-based stabilization/
solidification 22 5.1 Introduction 65
2.7 Carbon dioxide reduction potential 5.2 Biochar from different biomass for
of low carbon cements 24 stabilization/solidification 66
2.8 Summary 24 5.3 Chemically modified biochar for
2.9 Future trends 25 stabilization/solidification 68
List of abbreviations 25 5.4 Biochar-enhanced cement for
References 25 stabilization/solidification 69

v
vi Contents

5.5 Limitations and future trends 70 9. Physicochemical properties of

5.6 Summary 71 municipal solid waste incineration
References 71 fly ash 129
6. Stabilization/solidification of Lizhi Tong and Qing Hu
contaminated soils: a case study 75 9.1 Introduction 129
Yan-Jun Du and Ning-Jun Jiang 9.2 Types of incineration fly ash 130
9.3 Physicochemical properties of
6.1 Introduction 75 incineration fly ash 131
6.2 Mechanical, physicochemical, and 9.4 Metal leaching behavior of incineration
microstructural characteristics 77 fly ash 133
6.3 Leaching behavior of ordinary Portland 9.5 Summary 137
cement-stabilized Pb-contaminated clay 9.6 Future trends 137
under acid rain attack 83 Abbreviations 138
6.4 Closure comments 90
References 138
References 90

7. Stabilization/solidification of 10. Stabilization/solidification of

sediments: challenges and novelties 93 municipal solid waste incineration
fly ash 141
Abdellatif Elghali, Mostafa Benzaazoua, Julien
Couvidat, Yassine Taha, Louise Darricau, Pengfei Ren, Kim Hung Mo and Tung-Chai Ling
Carmen Mihaela Neculita and Vincent Chatain 10.1 Introduction 141
7.1 Introduction 93 10.2 Characteristics of MSWI fly ash 142
7.2 Sediments genesis and their main 10.3 S/S methods and technologies 143
characteristics 94 10.4 Conclusions and perspectives 153
7.3 Stabilization/solidification techniques 98 References 153
7.4 Main tests used for assessment of the
effectiveness of S/S technology 104
7.5 Integration of contaminated sediments in 11. Stabilization/solidification of
circular economy 105 municipal solid waste incineration
7.6 Durability of stabilized sediments 106 bottom ash 157
References 107
Pei Tang
11.1 Introduction 157
8. Stabilization/solidification of
11.2 Incineration bottom ash characteristics 157
contaminated marine sediment 113
11.3 Immobilization of incineration bottom
Sabino De Gisi, Claudia Labianca, Francesco ash and the associated applications 159
Todaro and Michele Notarnicola 11.4 Summary 170
8.1 Introduction 113 11.5 Future trend 171
8.2 Methods for marine sediment References 171
characterization 114
8.3 Marine sediment characterization 115
8.4 Main binders and additives used in S/S 115 12. Stabilization/solidification of acid
8.5 S/S for inorganic sediment mine drainage treatment sludge 175
contamination 118 Marouen Jouini, Mostafa Benzaazoua and
8.6 S/S for mixed organic and inorganic Carmen Mihaela Neculita
sediment contamination 118
8.7 Discussion 118 12.1 Introduction 175
8.8 Summary 124 12.2 Stability of acid mine drainage sludge 175
8.9 Future trends 124 12.3 Management of acid mine drainage
References 124 sludge 177
 Contents vii

12.4 Low-carbon stabilization/solidification 15. Sustainable stabilization/

of acid mine drainage active treatment solidification of mine wastes 227
sludge 178
12.5 Low-carbon stabilization/solidification Xin Wang, Linling Wang, Yutong Qi and
of acid mine drainage passive treatment Jing Chen
residues 180 15.1 Introduction 227
12.6 Summary 194 15.2 Environmental impacts of mine wastes 227
12.7 Future trends 195 15.3 Alkaline material-based solidification/
Acknowledgments 195 stabilization 228
Abbreviations 195 15.4 Metal oxyhydroxide-based
References 196 solidification/stabilization 230
15.5 Phosphate-based solidification/
stabilization 232
13. Stabilization/solidification of 15.6 Silica-based solidification/stabilization 233
mining waste via biocementation 201 15.7 Organic material-based solidification/
stabilization 235
Wilson Mwandira, Kazunori Nakashima and 15.8 Cement-based solidification/
Satoru Kawasaki stabilization 237
13.1 Introduction 201 15.9 Summary 238
13.2 Biochemistry and mechanism of 15.10 Future trends 239
mine waste solidification/stabilization References 239
by microbially induced carbonate
precipitation 201
13.3 Factors to consider for bioremediation 16. Stabilization/solidification of
of mine waste based on microbially metallurgical solid wastes 243
induced carbonate precipitation 203 Xin Wang, Linling Wang and Jing Chen
13.4 Mine waste solidification/stabilization
by microbially induced carbonate 16.1 Introduction 243
precipitation 205 16.2 Solid wastes generated from
13.5 Benefits and challenges 207 metallurgy industry 244
13.6 Future trends 207 16.3 Stabilization/solidification of chromite
References 208 ore processing residue 244
16.4 Stabilization/solidification of
arsenic-alkali residue from antimony
14. Sustainable utilization of incinerated smelting 247
sewage sludge ash 211 16.5 Stabilization/solidification of
arsenic-bearing sludge 249
Yifan Zhou, Jiangshan Li and Chi-Sun Poon 16.6 Stabilization/solidification of As-rich
14.1 Introduction 211 flue dust 253
16.7 Summary 254
14.2 Characteristics of incinerated sewage
16.8 Future trends 254
sludge ash 211
References 255
14.3 Incinerated sewage sludge ash blended
binder by lime activation 216
14.4 Adsorption of pollutants by incinerated 17. Rotary kilns coprocessing hazardous
sewage sludge ash 217 wastes 259
14.5 Recycling incinerated sewage sludge
ash into construction materials 218 Yike Zhang, Nannan Zhao, Zengyi Ma,
14.6 Stabilization/solidification of soil by Pucheng Zhong, Zhuoting Fang,
incinerated sewage sludge ash 220 Yuandong Qian and Jianhua Yan
14.7 Summary 222 17.1 Introduction 259
14.8 Future trends 222 17.2 Multistage pyrolysis incineration
Abbreviations 222 technology for hazardous wastes in
References 223 rotary kiln 262
viii Contents

17.3 Purification of flue gas during hazardous 21. Utilization of recycled aggregate in
wastes incineration 273 geopolymer concrete development:
17.4 Case study of 100 t/d hazardous waste A case study 343
incineration and disposal project 281
17.5 Conclusions and future perspective 283 Zhuo Tang and Wengui Li
References 285 21.1 Introduction 343
21.2 Experimental program 344
21.3 Results and discussions 347
18. Utilization of recycled powder from 21.4 Conclusions 352
construction and demolition waste 291 Acknowledgment 353
Jianzhuang Xiao and Zhiming Ma References 353

18.1 Introduction 291

18.2 Preparing technology and properties of 22. Utilization of coal fly ash and
recycled powder 292 bottom ash in brick and block
18.3 Early-age properties of concrete with products 355
recycled powder 293
18.4 Mechanical properties of concrete with Kim Hung Mo and Tung-Chai Ling
recycled powder 295 22.1 Introduction 355
18.5 Economic and environmental benefits 297 22.2 Unfired brick 355
18.6 Conclusion 297 22.3 Fired brick 360
18.7 Perspectives 298 22.4 Block 363
References 298 22.5 Fly ash geopolymer block/brick 367
22.6 Discussion and conclusion 368
22.7 Recommendations 369
19. Sustainable utilization of drinking Acknowledgment 369
water sludge 303 References 369

Yan Zhuge, Yue Liu and Phuong Ngoc Pham

19.1 Introduction 303 23. Beneficial use of coal fly ash in
19.2 Physical and chemical characterizations geotechnical infrastructure 373
of raw and treated alum sludge 304 Masrur Mahedi and Bora Cetin
19.3 Application of alum sludge as
supplementary cementitious materials 307 23.1 Introduction 373
23.2 Material overview 374
19.4 Application of alum sludge as sand
23.3 Stabilization and solidification
replacement 311
techniques 376
19.5 Durability and leaching behavior of
23.4 Limitations and future needs 391
alum sludge 312
23.5 Conclusions 391
19.6 Improving properties of concrete
References 392
incorporating alum sludge 316
Further reading 394
19.7 Summary and further considerations 318
References 318
24. Utilization of contaminated
biowaste 395
20. Sustainable utilization of slags 321
Weiting Xu and Jizhi Huang
Fei Jin
24.1 Introduction 395
20.1 Introduction 321 24.2 Traditional management methods of
20.2 Characteristics of different slags 321 solid biowaste 395
20.3 Utilization of slags in civil and 24.3 Potential of biowaste for energy
environmental engineering 328 storage 396
20.4 Summary and future trends 334 24.4 Utilization of agricultural biowaste as
References 334 low-carbon construction materials 397
 Contents ix

24.5 Case study: biomass silica extraction 27.8 Future trends 463
from agricultural biowaste rice husk References 464
and its application as concrete
products 398
24.6 Conclusions and prospects 402 28. Stabilization/solidification of
References 402 radioactive waste in geochemical
aspects 469
Binglin Guo and Keiko Sasaki
25. Cement-based stabilization/
28.1 Introduction 469
solidification of radioactive waste 407
28.2 Geochemical applications in radioactive
Sarah Kearney, Antonia S. Yorkshire, waste management 472
Daniel A. Geddes, Theodore Hanein, 28.3 Summary challenges and future
Shaun Nelson, John L. Provis and research 479
Brant Walkley Acknowledgments 480
References 480
25.1 Introduction 407
25.2 Portland cement 408
25.3 Calcium sulfoaluminate based cements 418
25.4 Magnesia-based cements 420
29. Advances of lab-scale analytical
25.5 Alkali-activated materials and
methods for solidification/
geopolymers 420 stabilization technologies 483
25.6 Industrial perspectives and future Jinqin Yang and Niklas Hedin
directions 423
29.1 Introduction 483
References 424
29.2 Leaching toxicity test 484
29.3 Porosity and surface property analysis 485
29.4 Solid phase identification 486
26. Glass-based stabilization/ 29.5 Chemical structure characterization 488
solidification of radioactive waste 433 29.6 Elemental and compositional
determination 489
Shengheng Tan
29.7 Summary 490
26.1 Introduction 433 29.8 Future trends 491
26.2 Glass wasteforms for radioactive waste Abbreviations 492
solidification 433 References 492
26.3 Melting technologies 442
26.4 Conclusion 444
26.5 Suggestions for future development 445 30. Advanced characterizations for
References 445 stabilization/solidification
technologies 497
Bin Ma, Jinqin Yang, Alejandro Fernandez-
27. Ceramic-based stabilization/ Martinez, Alexander Lyubartsev and
solidification of radioactive waste 449 Laurent Charlet
Shi-Kuan Sun, Daniel J. Bailey, 30.1 Introduction 497
Laura J. Gardner and Neil C. Hyatt 30.2 X-ray absorption spectroscopy
characterization 498
27.1 Introduction 449
30.3 Pair distribution function analysis 502
27.2 Pyrochlore 450
30.4 Small-angle X-ray/small-angle neutron
27.3 Zirconolite 452
scattering 507
27.4 Perovskite 456
30.5 Molecular computations 509
27.5 Brannerite 458 30.6 Summary 512
27.6 Zircon 460 30.7 Future trends 513
27.7 Summary 462 References 513
x Contents

31. Evaluating comprehensive carbon 33. Sustainable waste management and

emissions of solidification/ circular economy 545
stabilization technologies: Bauyrzhan Biakhmetov, Siming You and
a case study 517 Abay Dostiyarov
Md. Uzzal Hossain, Lei Wang, Daniel C.W. Tsang, 33.1 Introduction 545
S. Thomas Ng and Chi-Sun Poon 33.2 Circular economy and sustainable
31.1 Introduction 517 waste management 546
31.2 Materials, strategies, and methodology 33.3 Stabilization/solidification of
for evaluation 519 hazardous waste 547
31.3 Evaluation of carbon emissions for 33.4 Recommendation 551
different strategies of the studied 33.5 Conclusion 551
waste materials 522 References 552
31.4 Summary and future outlook 527
Acknowledgment 528 34. Future research directions for
Abbreviations 528 sustainable remediation 555
References 528
Lei Wang, Yuying Zhang and Daniel C.W. Tsang
34.1 Introduction 555
32. Life cycle assessment of different 34.2 New technologies for remediation 555
alternative materials used for 34.3 Novel materials for remediation 556
stabilization/solidification 531 34.4 Advanced characterization for
remediation 557
Shaoqin Ruan
34.5 Big data for sustainable remediation 558
32.1 Introduction 531 34.6 Environmental impact assessment 559
32.2 Life cycle assessment analysis of ordinary 34.7 Cost
benefit analysis and life cycle
Portland cement and alternative assessment 559
materials 532 34.8 Conclusion 560
32.3 Summary 540 References 561
32.4 Future trend 540
References 541 Index 565
List of contributors

Daniel J. Bailey Department of Materials Science and (DICATECh), Polytechnic University of Bari, Bari
Engineering, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, United (BA), Italy
Kingdom Abay Dostiyarov Department of Energy, Saken Seifullin
Mostafa Benzaazoua Research Institute on Mines and Kazakh Agrotechnical University, Nur-Sultan,
Environment, University of Québec in Abitibi- Kazakhstan
Témiscamingue, Rouyn-Noranda, QC, Canada; Yan-Jun Du Institute of Geotechnical Engineering,
Mining Environment and Circular Economy Program, Southeast University, Nanjing, P.R. China
Mohammed VI Polytechnic University, Ben Guerir,
Morocco Yassine El Khessaimi Mining Environment and Circular
Economy Program, Mohammed VI Polytechnic
Bauyrzhan Biakhmetov James Watt School of University, Ben Guerir, Morocco
Engineering, University of Glasgow, Glasgow, United
Kingdom; Department of Energy, Saken Seifullin Abdellatif Elghali Geology and Sustainable Mining
Kazakh Agrotechnical University, Nur-Sultan, Department, Mohammed VI Polytechnic University,
Kazakhstan Ben Guerir, Morocco
Bora Cetin Department of Civil and Environmental Zhuoting Fang State Key Laboratory of Energy Clean
Engineering, Michigan State University, East Lansing, Utilization, Zhejiang University, Hangzhou, P.R.
MI, United States China
Laurent Charlet Univ. Grenoble Alpes, Univ. Savoie Alejandro Fernandez-Martinez Univ. Grenoble Alpes,
Mont Blanc, CNRS, IRD, IFSTTAR, ISTerre, 38000, Univ. Savoie Mont Blanc, CNRS, IRD, IFSTTAR,
Grenoble, France ISTerre, 38000, Grenoble, France

Vincent Chatain Université de Lyon, INSA Lyon, Laura J. Gardner Department of Materials Science and
Laboratoire Déchets Eaux Environnement Pollutions Engineering, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, United
(DEEP) - EA 7429, Villeurbanne Cedex, France Kingdom

Jing Chen School of Environmental Science and Daniel A. Geddes Department of Materials Science and
Engineering, Huazhong University of Science and Engineering, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, United
Technology, Wuhan, P.R. China Kingdom

Liang Chen Department of Civil and Environmental Sivakumar Gowthaman Faculty of Engineering,
Engineering, The Hong Kong Polytechnic University, Hokkaido University, Sapporo, Japan
Kowloon, Hong Kong, China Binglin Guo Sino-French Institute of Nuclear
Meiqi Chen Graduate School of Engineering, Hokkaido Engineering and Technology, Sun Yat-sen University,
University, Sapporo, Japan Zhuhai, China; Department of Earth Resources
Engineering, Kyushu University, Fukuoka, Japan
Julien Couvidat Université de Lyon, INSA Lyon,
Laboratoire Déchets Eaux Environnement Pollutions Rachid Hakkou Mining Environment and Circular
(DEEP) - EA 7429, Villeurbanne Cedex, France Economy Program, Mohammed VI Polytechnic
University, Ben Guerir, Morocco; IMED-Lab, Faculty
Louise Darricau Research Institute on Mines and of Science and Technology, Cadi Ayyad University,
Environment, University of Québec in Abitibi- Marrakech, Morocco
Témiscamingue, Rouyn-Noranda, QC, Canada
Theodore Hanein Department of Materials Science and
Sabino De Gisi Department of Civil, Environmental, Engineering, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, United
Land, Building Engineering and Chemistry Kingdom

xi
xii List of contributors

Niklas Hedin Department of Materials and Yue Liu UniSA STEM, University of South Australia,
Environmental Chemistry, Arrhenius Laboratory, Adelaide, SA, Australia
Stockholm University, Stockholm, Sweden Alexander Lyubartsev Department of Materials and
Md. Uzzal Hossain Department of Civil Engineering, Environmental Chemistry, Arrhenius Laboratory,
The University of Hong Kong, Pokfulam Road, Hong Stockholm University, Stockholm, Sweden
Kong, China
Bin Ma Laboratory for Concrete & Asphalt, Swiss
Qing Hu School of Environmental Science and Federal Laboratories for Materials Science and
Engineering, Southern University of Science and Technology (Empa), Dübendorf, Switzerland
Technology, Shenzhen, P.R. China
Zengyi Ma State Key Laboratory of Energy Clean
Jizhi Huang School of Civil Engineering and Utilization, Zhejiang University, Hangzhou, P.R.
Transportation, South China University of China; Ningbo Research Institute, Zhejiang
Technology, Guangzhou, P.R. China University, Ningbo, P.R. China
Neil C. Hyatt Department of Materials Science and Zhiming Ma Department of Structural Engineering,
Engineering, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, United Tongji University, Shanghai, P.R. China
Kingdom
Safaa Mabroum Mining Environment and Circular
Ning-Jun Jiang Institute of Geotechnical Engineering,
Economy Program, Mohammed VI Polytechnic
Southeast University, Nanjing, P.R. China
University, Ben Guerir, Morocco
Fei Jin School of Engineering, Cardiff University,
Masrur Mahedi Department of Civil, Construction and
Cardiff, United Kingdom
Environmental Engineering, Iowa State University,
Marouen Jouini Research Institute on Mines and Ames, IA, United States
Environment, University of Québec in Abitibi-
Témiscamingue, Rouyn-Noranda, QC, Canada Kim Hung Mo Department of Civil Engineering,
Faculty of Engineering, University of Malaya, Kuala
Satoru Kawasaki Faculty of Engineering, Hokkaido Lumpur, Malaysia
University, Sapporo, Japan
Wilson Mwandira IWRM Centre/Geology Department,
Sarah Kearney Department of Chemical and Biological
School of Mines, University of Zambia, Lusaka,
Engineering, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, United
Zambia; Faculty of Engineering, Hokkaido University,
Kingdom; Department of Materials Science and
Sapporo, Japan
Engineering, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, United
Kingdom Kazunori Nakashima Faculty of Engineering, Hokkaido
Shin Komatsu Meiwa Seishi Genryo Co., Ltd., Osaka, University, Sapporo, Japan
Japan Carmen Mihaela Neculita Research Institute on Mines
Claudia Labianca Department of Civil, Environmental, and Environment, University of Québec in Abitibi-
Land, Building Engineering and Chemistry Témiscamingue, Rouyn-Noranda, QC, Canada
(DICATECh), Polytechnic University of Bari, Bari Shaun Nelson Department of Materials Science and
(BA), Italy Engineering, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, United
Jiangshan Li State Key Laboratory of Geomechanics Kingdom
and Geotechnical Engineering, Institute of Rock and S. Thomas Ng Department of Architecture and Civil
Soil Mechanics, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Engineering, City University of Hong Kong, Tat Chee
Wuhan, P.R. China; IRSM-CAS/HK PolyU Joint Avenue, Kowloon Tong, Hong Kong
Laboratory on Solid Waste Science, Hong Kong,
China Michele Notarnicola Department of Civil,
Environmental, Land, Building Engineering and
Wengui Li School of Civil and Environmental Chemistry (DICATECh), Polytechnic University of
Engineering, University of Technology Sydney, Bari, Bari (BA), Italy
Ultimo, NSW, Australia
Phuong Ngoc Pham Faculty of Road and Bridge
Tung-Chai Ling College of Civil Engineering, Hunan Engineering, The University of Danang-University of
University, Changsha, P.R. China Science and Technology, 54 Nguyen Luong Bang Str.
Danang, Vietnam
 List of contributors xiii

Chi-Sun Poon Department of Civil and Environmental (DICATECh), Polytechnic University of Bari, Bari
Engineering, The Hong Kong Polytechnic University, (BA), Italy
Hung Hom, Hong Kong; IRSM-CAS/HK PolyU Joint Lizhi Tong South China Institute of Environmental
Laboratory on Solid Waste Science, Hong Kong, Sciences, Ministry of Ecology and Environment,
China Guangzhou, P.R. China
John L. Provis Department of Materials Science and Daniel C.W. Tsang Department of Civil and
Engineering, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, United Environmental Engineering, The Hong Kong
Kingdom Polytechnic University, Hung Hom, Hong Kong
Yutong Qi School of Environmental Science and
Brant Walkley Department of Chemical and Biological
Engineering, Huazhong University of Science and
Engineering, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, United
Technology, Wuhan, P.R. China
Kingdom
Yuandong Qian State Key Laboratory of Energy Clean
Fei Wang Institute of Geotechnical Engineering, School
Utilization, Zhejiang University, Hangzhou, P.R.
of Transportation, Southeast University, Nanjing, P.R.
China
China
Pengfei Ren College of Civil Engineering, Hunan
Lei Wang Institute of Construction Materials,
University, Changsha, P.R. China
Technische Universität Dresden, Dresden, Germany
Shaoqin Ruan College of Civil Engineering and
Linling Wang School of Environmental Science and
Architecture, Zhejiang University, Hangzhou, P.R.
Engineering, Huazhong University of Science and
China
Technology, Wuhan, P.R. China
Keiko Sasaki Department of Earth Resources
Engineering, Kyushu University, Fukuoka, Japan Xin Wang School of Environmental Science and
Engineering, Huazhong University of Science and
Zhengtao Shen School of Environment, Tsinghua Technology, Wuhan, P.R. China
University, Beijing, P.R. China; Department of Earth
and Atmospheric Sciences, University of Alberta, Jianzhuang Xiao Department of Structural Engineering,
Edmonton, AB, Canada Tongji University, Shanghai, P.R. China
Shi-Kuan Sun School of Material Science and Energy Xinni Xiong Department of Civil and Environmental
Engineering, Foshan University, Foshan, Guangdong, Engineering, The Hong Kong Polytechnic University,
P.R. China Kowloon, Hong Kong, China
Yassine Taha Mining Environment and Circular Weiting Xu School of Materials Science and
Economy Program, Mohammed VI Polytechnic Engineering, South China University of Technology,
University, Ben Guerir, Morocco Guangzhou, P.R. China
Shengheng Tan Radioactive Waste Treatment and Jianhua Yan State Key Laboratory of Energy Clean
Disposal Laboratory, Department of Radiochemistry, Utilization, Zhejiang University, Hangzhou, P.R.
China Institute of Atomic Energy, Beijing, P.R. China China
Pei Tang State Key Laboratory of Silicate Materials for Jinqin Yang Department of Materials and
Architectures, Wuhan University of Technology, Environmental Chemistry, Arrhenius Laboratory,
Wuhan, China Stockholm University, Stockholm, Sweden
Zhuo Tang School of Civil and Environmental Antonia S. Yorkshire Department of Materials Science
Engineering, University of Technology Sydney, and Engineering, University of Sheffield, Sheffield,
Ultimo, NSW, Australia United Kingdom
Quanzhi Tian National Engineering Research Center of Siming You James Watt School of Engineering,
Coal Preparation and Purification, China University of University of Glasgow, Glasgow, United Kingdom
Mining and Technology, Xuzhou, P.R. China;
Yike Zhang State Key Laboratory of Energy Clean
Department of Earth Resources Engineering, Kyushu
Utilization, Zhejiang University, Hangzhou, P.R.
University, Fukuoka, Japan
China; Ningbo Research Institute, Zhejiang
Francesco Todaro Department of Civil, Environmental, University, Ningbo, P.R. China
Land, Building Engineering and Chemistry
xiv List of contributors

Yunhui Zhang College of Environmental Science and Pucheng Zhong State Key Laboratory of Energy Clean
Engineering, Tongji University, Shanghai, P.R. China; Utilization, Zhejiang University, Hangzhou, P.R.
State Key Laboratory of Pollution Control and China
Resource Reuse, Tongji University, Shanghai, P.R. Yifan Zhou Department of Civil and Environmental
China Engineering, The Hong Kong Polytechnic University,
Yuying Zhang Department of Civil and Environmental Hong Kong, China
Engineering, The Hong Kong Polytechnic University,
Yan Zhuge UniSA STEM, University of South
Kowloon, Hong Kong, China
Australia, Adelaide, SA, Australia
Nannan Zhao State Key Laboratory of Energy Clean
Utilization, Zhejiang University, Hangzhou, P.R.
China
Discovering Diverse Content Through
Random Scribd Documents
 Mr. Jenner. Would you say that there were at least two
duffelbags, and that there could have been more than two?
Mrs. Murret. Yes. I think some of the boxes must have contained
baby clothes and things like that, and in fact, I was wondering how
in the world he got all of that stuff on the bus. I never did ask him,
but he really had a load of stuff with him. It was all there at the bus
station though.
Mr. Jenner. Did he have any long packages with him?
Mrs. Murret. I wouldn't know that. Do you mean any visible long
packages?
Mr. Jenner. Yes.
Mrs. Murret. I didn't see any.
Mr. Jenner. These cardboard boxes, were they ordinary cardboard
boxes that a person would pack things in?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; I guess there were clothes in those.
Mr. Jenner. Did he have any long flat package with him?
Mrs. Murret. I didn't see any.
Mr. Jenner. Did you ever see any package wrapped in unbroken
or tan wrapping paper?
Mrs. Murret. I don't think. Like I said, I knew there were all kinds
of things back in there, all bunched up, more or less. Everything was
in such a little space back there, but it was all together, and my
washing machine is out there, but I never one time pried into or
disarranged any of that stuff or anything like that. I figured that
wasn't any of my business.
Mr. Jenner. Did you see any package that stood up on end at all?
Mrs. Murret. I didn't see any like that; no.
Mr. Jenner. Anything that looked like, oh, say, a tent pole, long
and hard?
 Mrs. Murret. No; I didn't see anything that looked like that.
There were just some boxes and duffelbags and bundles that I saw,
and I do know one time he was back there when I was back there
and he pulled out a Russian cap that they wear in Russia, and boots,
you know, these leather Russian boots, but that's all I saw.
Mr. Jenner. Did the Russian cap have any insignia on it, or
anything like that?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; the Russian cap had fur on it, like the Russians
wear in cold weather.
Mr. Jenner. Did it have any insignia on it, or a Red star, or
hammer and sickle or anything like that?
Mrs. Murret. No; not that I saw. What struck me as odd that was
that Lee didn't seem to have anything to wear. I told him, "Lee, you
don't look too presentable. I am going to buy you some clothes." My
boys were all big, all over 6 feet, so nothing they had would fit Lee,
so he said no, that he had a lot of things, but that they were all
packed. He said that's all right, but all he had on at the time was a
T-shirt and pants, and I think he had only about two T-shirts with
him.
Mr. Jenner. You say he had no suit coat?
Mrs. Murret. No; and only one pair of shoes. I even offered to
buy him a pair of shoes, but he said no, that he had some shoes
packed away.
Mr. Jenner. Did he ever get them out?
Mrs. Murret. No, he didn't get them out. He said he just wanted
to put up there for a few days, you see, because he was trying to
find a job, he told me, and then he said he would send for Marina,
his wife, and the child, and I asked him to tell us what she looks like,
you know, to describe her, and he said, "Well, she's just like any
other American housewife." He said, "She wears shorts," and so
forth, just like any other American housewife, and he said he would
have to have a newspaper so he could scan the want ads and try to
find himself a job, and so every morning he would get up and go
through the newspaper looking for a job, and he would go out every
morning with his newspaper, and he wouldn't come back until the
afternoon, until supper time. I had supper anywhere from 5:30 to 6
o'clock, and he was there on time every day for supper, and after
supper he didn't leave the house. He would sit down about 6:30 or 7
o'clock, and look at some television programs, and then he would go
right to bed, and he did that every day while he was at the house,
and so then on the first Sunday he was there, he was talking—we
were talking about relatives, and he said to me, "Do you know
anything about the Oswalds?" and I said, no, I said that I didn't. I
said, "I don't know any of them other than your father, and I saw
your uncle one time." I said, "I don't know anything about the
family; I don't know them," so he said, "Well, you know, I don't
know any of my relatives." He said, "You are the only one I know."
Now, this was on a Sunday, and Lee had come to my house on a
Monday. Now what he didn't tell me was that on Sunday he must
have gone to the cemetery where his father was buried. That's right
at the end of the Lakeview line, where I live. He went to the
cemetery. I guess he went to ask the person in charge about the
grave. Anyway, he found it, and while he was there he saw someone
who knew the Oswalds. I didn't get whether she was related or not,
but they got to talking about the family some way. I don't know
what all they talked about, but anyway, Lee looked in the paper and
finally he found this job—I don't know where it was, but it was up on
Rampart Street, and they wanted someone to letter.
Mr. Jenner. To letter?
Mrs. Murret. To do lettering work, yes, and so he called this man
and the man said to come on out, so he went on out there to see
about this job.
First, while he was waiting for the appointment time, he sat
down and tried to letter, and well, it was a little sad, because he
couldn't letter as well as my next door neighbor's 6-year-old child,
but I didn't say anything, so when he got back he said, "Well, I
didn't get the job." He said, "They want someone who can letter,
and I don't know how to do that."
So that's when he got into the subject of the Oswald family
again, and he sat down and took the telephone book, and he called
all the Oswalds in the telephone book until he came to the one
person who was the right Oswald, and this was an elderly lady living
in Metairie. She was the wife of one of the Oswalds, so he told her—
he had a map; he always carried a map with him to find directions.
If he wanted to go to a certain place, he would never ask you how
to get there. He would always take this map and mark the route out
himself.
So he went to see this lady, and she was the wife of one of the
brothers in the Oswald family, and she told him that everybody was
dead, I think, and she gave him a picture of his father, and she gave
him some other pictures, and then she invited him back. He said she
was a very nice lady, and was very, very happy, but I don't think he
ever went back to see her.
So the next day, Monday, well, he went back to his job hunting
again, and he continued that way until one morning he saw this job
with the Riley Coffee Co., and he went down and applied and he got
the job, and he came home waving the newspaper, and he grabbed
me around the neck, and he even kissed me, and he said, "I got it; I
got it!"
Mr. Jenner. He was quite happy that he had gotten work?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; I said, "Well, Lee, how much does it pay?" and
he said, "Well, it don't pay very much." He said, "It don't pay very
much, but I will get along on it."
I said, "Well, you know, Lee, you are really not qualified to do
anything too much. If you don't like this job, why don't you try to go
back to school at night time and see if you can't learn a trade or
whatever you think you can prepare yourself to do." And he said,
"No, I don't have to go back to school. I don't have to learn
anything. I know everything." So that's the way it was. I couldn't tell
him any more. I had told him what I thought he should do, but if he
thought he was smart enough, then there was nothing else I could
do.
Mr. Jenner. Did you get the impression when you were talking
along these lines that he really believed he was that smart?
Mrs. Murret. He believed that he was smart; yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. You don't think he was spoofing you?
Mrs. Murret. No; I think he really thought he was smart, and I
don't think he envied anybody else. He thought he was very smart,
and I don't think he envied anyone else, because he thought he
knew it all, I guess. He didn't think he had to have a profession or
anything else. We didn't even know when he left this job.
Mr. Jenner. Well, before we get to that, while he was living with
you, did he read while he was home at night?
Mrs. Murret. Did he read?
Mr. Jenner. Yes.
Mrs. Murret. No.
Mr. Jenner. He didn't read any books?
Mrs. Murret. You see, he went out all day. He would get up and
leave early in the morning. He wouldn't eat any breakfast. I would
try to fix him an egg and bacon or something like that, but he didn't
want anything to eat for breakfast and he wouldn't take a thing. We
always eat a big breakfast in our family, but he wouldn't eat a thing.
He would just get dressed and go out with his newspaper to look for
a job, and come home in time for supper and then he would sit
around a while and watch television and then go to bed, and he
followed that same pattern all while he was with us, until he got this
job with the Riley Coffee Co.
Mr. Jenner. Did he ever talk to you about Russia during that time,
his life in Russia, and how he felt about it?
 Mrs. Murret. No; the only thing he spoke about was the
relatives. He said in Russia all the relatives knew one another and he
said they all lived together, and he said if one comes in and he wants
to stay overnight, that they will put him up in a corner, or help him
out with clothes and so forth, but of course he worked in a factory
while he was over there.
Mr. Jenner. Did he tell you that?
Mrs. Murret. Well, he did tell me he worked in a factory and he
did work around the machinery, but that's all he told me about that,
but then when he got this job with the Riley Coffee Co. and started
to work there, he said, well, that was no different than any other
factory in Russia. I said, "Well, what do you mean by that?" He said,
"Well, the equipment was just as bad, the machines, and the work
conditions were not any different from Russia," but that's all he
would say about it. We didn't talk about it too much.
Mr. Jenner. Do you mean he inferred that the machinery at the
Riley Coffee Co. was outdated as compared with the machinery in
Russia?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; as compared with the machinery in Russia, and
he said you had to work hard. He said they work you hard at the
plant.
Mr. Jenner. Did he say anything about his reaction to Russia?
Mrs. Murret. No; he never spoke about Russia that way. He
would only talk when you would ask him a question, that's all. He
wouldn't ever tell you anything. When he first came in and stayed
with us. I asked him a few things about Russia, but he wouldn't talk
much about it. He never expressed an opinion about Russia at all.
About all he would say was that they were just about like any other
people. That's about all he would say.
Mr. Jenner. He didn't talk then about his views on the Russian
government?
 Mrs. Murret. No; not to me. There was no time really. The way
things were, like I said, he would come home in time for supper and
then watch a little television and go to bed, and he never spoke
about anything.
Mr. Jenner. Did he ever discuss his life in the Marines with you?
Mrs. Murret. No; he never talked about that either. He did say
that he was wanting to get out of Russia so that he could bring his
wife and child over to this country, and he said the Immigration
Department loaned him $365 and some odd cents, to use to get out
of Russia, and he said he worked for the Dallas or Fort Worth, for
some photographer in there, one of those places—I forget which—
but he did say that he worked until he paid it all back, and I said, "If
you made that much money on that job, why did they let you go?"
And he said, "Well, they didn't want a third man on the job," or
something like that.
Mr. Jenner. They didn't want a third man on the job?
Mrs. Murret. That's what he said, that they didn't want a third
man on the job.
Mr. Jenner. And you say that was in Dallas that he worked for this
photographer?
Mrs. Murret. I think it was Dallas that he said; yes. It was either
Dallas or Fort Worth. I think it was Dallas. He said he liked the job all
right, but he said they let him go because they didn't want a third
man. Now, I don't know if that's a true story or not. So then he
came here to look for a job, and he said when he found a job, that
he would have Marina and the child to come over here. I think
before that time Marina had called, but he hadn't found anything
then, so when he called and told her he had this job, she must have
been all packed and everything, because they got here so quick.
Mr. Jenner. Well, did you hear him talk to her over the telephone?
Mrs. Murret. Well, he spoke in Russian, in the Russian language.
Mr. Jenner. Did you say anything to him about that?
 Mrs. Murret. Did I say anything about him speaking to her in
Russian?
Mr. Jenner. Yes.
Mrs. Murret. No; I didn't, but I did wonder about it, here was a
man speaking in Russian who was an American, and he had had his
wife over in this country for a year and a half, he said, and I did
wonder why he didn't try to teach her English, but anyway, he called
her after he got the job, and he got right off the phone and said, "I
am going out and look for an apartment." So sure enough he found
an apartment the very first day, and he came back and he said, "I
have found an apartment," and I think it was $65 a month, he said
the rent was. Then he told me about a Mrs. Paine who he said had
been very nice to Marina who was going to bring Marina on down
with the baby, and he said, "I would like to get a very nice
apartment with an extra room so if Mrs. Paine wants to stay a few
days, we will have a place for her to stay." And I wondered about
that too, renting an expensive apartment like he had in mind, but
apartments were hard to find about that time, and I told him, "If you
have a nice apartment, I think you had better keep it, because it's
just temporary," and it was a nice apartment, or at least that's what
he told me. He said, "Do you know how I got that apartment?" And I
said, "No, I don't," and he said, "Well, I'll tell you. I rode around a
while, and I decided to stop at Myrtle's house——"
Mr. Jenner. That's Myrtle Evans?
Mrs. Murret. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. All right, go ahead.
Mrs. Murret. Well, he said he stopped at Myrtle's house and went
up to the door, and she came to the door but she didn't recognize
him, she didn't recognize Lee.
Mr. Jenner. He was telling you this; is that right?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; he told me how he did that, and he said he
asked Myrtle did she have an apartment, that he was looking for an
apartment for his wife and baby who were coming from Texas, and
so Myrtle said, "Well, I'm sorry, but I only have an apartment on the
second floor, and I don't think that would be good, you know, for
your wife." Lee said to her, "Do you know who I am?" and she said,
"No." And he said, "I am Lee Oswald." She said, "Well, don't tell me!
Lee, I would never have recognized you." She said, "The last I heard
of you from your aunt, she told me you were in Russia," because I
did see Myrtle one day and she knew me. I never was what you
would call a friend of Myrtle, but of course she knew who I was,
because we got to know each other at a card party where I was
working at Jesuit's, and she asked about Lee at that time, and I told
her that Lee had defected to Russia. So she told Lee that the last
time she had heard of him, he was in Russia, and he said, "Well, but
I am back, and I am married to a Russian girl." So Myrtle says,
"Well, come on, Lee," and I think she gave Lee some lunch, and
then she decided to help him find an apartment.
She told him, "We are not going to a real estate office, because
prices are high, and I know because I manage apartments myself, so
we will just ride in and out the streets and see what we can find." So
they got in her car and went riding up Magazine Street, and there
was a sign on a house, apartment for rent, and so they went and
knocked and inquired about the apartment, and the lady said how
much it was, and it was very clean with a new stove and a new
refrigerator, and it was newly wall papered and it had a floor furnace
and a large living room and a bedroom and bath connecting the
bedroom, and another small room and kitchen and a front porch,
and a closed-in yard, and so Myrtle said to Lee, "Lee, this is great.
You had better take this place." Well, Lee said, "Well, I don't know.
The ceilings are high and Marina doesn't like high ceilings," but she
said, "Well, I think you had better get this place, because it's all you
can afford," so he said he would take it. But I don't think Marina
ever liked high ceilings, but anyway, after he called Marina, then
they came in on Saturday.
Mr. Jenner. Excuse me for interrupting, but before we get them
coming in, did he ever say anything to you as to why he left Russia?
 Mrs. Murret. Did he say why he left Russia?
Mr. Jenner. Yes.
Mrs. Murret. He never did say why; no, sir. I was always under
the impression that he was just tired of being over there and wanted
to come back. We were trying to find out how in the world he got
out with a Russian wife, and I asked him that question, and he told
me that Immigration had loaned him the money, and he said that
Marina's uncle had helped them to get out, and that he was a retired
army general.
Mr. Jenner. Did you have the impression that he was, oh, never
quite satisfied with anything when he was in Russia, that when he
was over there, he didn't like it?
Mrs. Murret. Well, he didn't say that to me.
Mr. Jenner. All right, now you say that Marina then came to New
Orleans after he had called and said that he had found a job; is that
right?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; she came with Mrs. Paine.
Mr. Jenner. Did Mrs. Paine drive her?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; they came in Mrs. Paine's car. In fact, I think
he got that apartment possibly on a Thursday.
Mr. Jenner. At 4905 Magazine Street?
Mrs. Murret. Yes, sir; Thursday or Friday, or whatever it was.
Mr. Jenner. That was the ninth of September 1963; is that right?
Mrs. Murret. I guess that was the date.
Mr. Jenner. Did Lee move in on Monday?
Mrs. Murret. No; Lee moved in right away, on Saturday. In fact,
he moved in on the 10th, I think, or the 9th. Anyway after he got it,
he moved in himself the next day, and then Marina came in on the
Saturday.
 Mr. Jenner. Well, Saturday was the seventh, Sunday was the
eighth, and Monday was the ninth.
Mrs. Murret. Of May?
Mr. Jenner. Oh, I am looking at September; I'm sorry. Now, let's
see. The 9th of May was on a Thursday, and that's when he got the
apartment, the 9th of May, and he moved in the next day; is that
right?
Mrs. Murret. That's right, and he came back to my house on that
Saturday morning.
Mr. Jenner. That's the 11th?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; and Marina and Mrs. Paine were coming in on
Saturday, and they arrived there about 3 o'clock in the afternoon,
around that time, and then he took all the things he had out in the
garage over to the apartment.
Mr. Jenner. Were you present when he did that?
Mrs. Murret. I went to see the apartment.
Mr. Jenner. But were you present when he took the things out of
your garage?
Mrs. Murret. You mean in the garage?
Mr. Jenner. Yes.
Mrs. Murret. No; I wasn't.
Mr. Jenner. You didn't get any better look at all the things that he
had in the garage than you had that first day when your husband
brought that stuff from the bus station and it was put in the corner
of the garage?
Mrs. Murret. No; I didn't. I was busy on the inside of the house
when he took all that stuff over to the apartment, because we were
all anxious to see—not all, but Marilyn and myself, wanted to see the
apartment, so inasmuch as we had to bring the things up there, he
loaded the car.
 Mr. Jenner. Your car?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; our car. Mr. Murret drove the car up there.
Mr. Jenner. Did you see them put the things in the car?
Mrs. Murret. No; but they did put everything in the car.
Mr. Jenner. Did you see them do that?
Mrs. Murret. No; but Mr. Murret helped. I knew he was doing
that. He had to do that. I didn't do it. I just wanted to go over there
that first day and see the apartment, so I was trying to finish up
inside, and I just noticed that he was loading the car, and that's
something else, the reason why Mr. Murret is considered just such a
gentleman. No woman in his presence ever picks up a package or
anything like that.
Mr. Jenner. A woman never picks up a package in the presence of
your husband?
Mrs. Murret. That's right, he always does it. So anyway, we
brought Lee up to the apartment, and he was so happy about the
place. He thought it was a most beautiful place, and we thought it
was nice too, but after they got everything out of the car, we just
left.
Mr. Jenner. Did you see them taking things out of the car and
bringing them into the apartment?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; but we didn't help them.
Mr. Jenner. Was your husband helping to unload the car?
Mrs. Murret. Oh, yes; he was taking the things out himself.
Mr. Jenner. You saw him doing that?
Mrs. Murret. Oh, yes; they had a lot of locker space in that
apartment, and Lee was putting everything in this one big locker, I
think.
Mr. Jenner. Did your husband have any luggage?
 Mrs. Murret. Luggage?
Mr. Jenner. Yes.
Mrs. Murret. Yes; I think he had some suitcases.
Mr. Jenner. He had some suitcases?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; they looked like Marina's suitcase, for one,
because he didn't come into my house with any suitcase. Like I said,
he just had that little bag with him. In fact, he only had maybe two
pairs of socks and two T-shirts, and two pairs of pants, and nothing
else.
Mr. Jenner. But you did see a suitcase or more than one suitcase
in the garage; is that right?
Mrs. Murret. I think I did. I think he did have a suitcase in the
garage, and maybe two; yes, sir. I seem to remember those.
Mr. Jenner. Do you have a ready recollection of that?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; I do. I think, if I remember right, that I saw
two suitcases there, and that they were very nice suitcases.
Mr. Jenner. Of ordinary size, would you say?
Mrs. Murret. I think they were of ordinary size; yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. Regular suitcases with the handle in the center?
Mrs. Murret. Yes.
Mr. Jenner. Would you say they were straight sided and oblong
rather than square?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; just ordinary regular clothing suitcases.
Mr. Jenner. About 28 inches long?
Mrs. Murret. Yes.
Mr. Jenner. But you didn't see any long package?
Mrs. Murret. No; I didn't.
 Mr. Jenner. By long, I mean something in the neighborhood of 45
inches long, or something like that.
Mrs. Murret. No; I didn't see anything like that. The only reason
I noticed these suitcases was because my washing machine was in
the garage, and I had to go out there to wash, to do my washing,
and those suitcases were standing up, sitting right next to one
another, and there were boxes, a bunch of stuff.
Mr. Jenner. There were two suitcases, as far as you know?
Mrs. Murret. As far as I know; yes.
Mr. Jenner. Could there have been three?
Mrs. Murret. There could have been. There could have been
four; I don't know.
Mr. Jenner. But your immediate recollection is that there were
two?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; that's right. There were at least two suitcases.
Mr. Jenner. But you didn't notice any wrapped package, any
brown butcher paper, or regular delicatessen store paper?
Mrs. Murret. No; I didn't see anything like that. Like I said,
though, when they put his things in the car, I was inside the house.
Mr. Jenner. Did your boy do any hunting?
Mrs. Murret. My boys?
Mr. Jenner. Yes.
Mrs. Murret. Well, the boy that's in the seminary, he did a little
duck-hunting occasionally, but that's about all.
Mr. Jenner. Did your boys ever have shotguns or rifles around
your house?
Mrs. Murret. Oh, they had a small rifle in my locker.
Mr. Jenner. Do you know what that rifle looked like?
 Mrs. Murret. Yes; just an ordinary rifle. It wasn't an expensive
rifle. It could have been just a plain shotgun, I guess. In fact, I
think, if I can remember back, I think Gene, when he was duck
hunting once, almost shot his hand off.
Mr. Jenner. But you don't remember seeing any package, any
oblong package, out in the garage among those things that Lee had
brought in there?
Mrs. Murret. No; I didn't.
Mr. Jenner. Would you have any conception of what a rifle would
look like when it is disassembled, what the barrel separated from the
stock looked like, and so forth?
Mrs. Murret. No; I'm afraid I don't know anything about rifles.
Mr. Jenner. All right. Now, we are on the 11th of September, and
Marina and Mrs. Paine have arrived at your home. Now, will you tell
me about that?
Mrs. Murret. Well, they arrived that afternoon. We brought Lee
to the apartment that morning, and Lee stayed at the apartment and
came back later during the day, and I said to Lee, "Well, suppose we
go out and buy some eggs and have your refrigerator stocked," and
he had said "Oh, don't worry about that; I will get all of that. I will
have all of that in." In other words, you couldn't help him, so then
he came over to the house, and I planned on having a lunch for
Marina and Mrs. Paine, and they came on in with the baby, so there
was Mrs. Paine with her two children, Mr. Murret, and I guess
Marilyn was in the back getting ready to go out.
Mr. Jenner. Marilyn is your daughter?
Mrs. Murret. Marilyn is my daughter; yes.
Mr. Jenner. She is a young lady who was here this morning with
you?
Mrs. Murret. Yes, she was getting ready to go out. She had an
appointment with someone, so they came in and when I saw the
baby, I forgot who else was there. I said, "Well, she's darling," you
know, and the baby began to cry and it cried and cried, and Marina
took it to the kitchen and took care of her, and I think John was
there.
Mr. Jenner. You mean your son John?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; I think he was there.
Mr. Jenner. Had Lee arrived in the meantime?
Mrs. Murret. Lee had arrived; oh, yes, he was there. So finally
Lee said, "Well, let's go over to the apartment," and so they all got
ready to leave, and Mr. Murret said he would lead the way because
they didn't know the way. He said, "I will lead the way to this place,"
so that's the way they went over there. Mr. Murret, my husband,
took Lee with him, I think that's right, and Mrs. Paine drove the
others over in her car.
Mr. Jenner. From the time that Mrs. Paine drove off from your
home, did you see Mrs. Paine any more?
Mrs. Murret. No, sir; I never saw Mrs. Paine any more.
Mr. Jenner. How soon after that did you see Lee and Marina and
the baby?
Mrs. Murret. Well, you see, I don't drive myself, and I wanted
them to come over, but they didn't have a car and they didn't want
my husband to go and get them, so it was 2 weeks before I saw
them again. But one Saturday morning about 2 weeks after they
moved over there, Lee came over with Marina and the baby, which is
a very long way they had to come by streetcar and bus, and it must
have taken them a long time, because they were living up on
Magazine Street, and that's a pretty long way out to my house. From
Canal Street up to the 4900 block of Magazine Street, that's 49
blocks, and then from my house to Canal it must be 50 blocks.
Mr. Jenner. You mean it was 99 blocks distance from your house
to their house?
 Mrs. Murret. That's right.
Mr. Jenner. All right, go ahead.
Mrs. Murret. Well, they made this trip by streetcar and bus, and
we didn't even know they were coming, and they had the baby
stroller and everything that belonged to the baby with them.
Mr. Jenner. This is Lee and Marina, now?
Mrs. Murret. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. That was 2 weeks later that they came out to your
house?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; and the baby. I was trying to make friends
with the baby and the baby was crying. It looked like the poor child
never saw anyone before in her life.
Mr. Jenner. You had this feeling, did you?
Mrs. Murret. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. You have reared some fine children, and you have
grandchildren?
Mrs. Murret. Yes.
Mr. Jenner. I take it you have a knack with babies and children?
Mrs. Murret. Yes.
Mr. Jenner. And you seemed to have trouble with Lee's baby, with
this baby?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; naturally she had never seen me before, and
she didn't speak the English language. Marina made her understand
things in Russian, and so I took the baby outside with me to make
friends with the baby and she kept crying, and Marina kept telling
her to look at me, and after a while she made friends, you know,
and so then Lee decided that they would go out.
I had a baby bed in the house which I have for all my children,
and my daughter still uses the baby bed, so anyway, Marina and Lee
wanted to go to the lakeside which isn't too far from my home.
Mr. Jenner. What is the lakeside?
Mrs. Murret. Pontchartrain Lake. I guess that would be about 12
blocks from where I live.
Mr. Jenner. About a mile-and-a-half?
Mrs. Murret. About that. They decided to go crabbing, and so
they got a net and some crab bait, and the baby meantime went to
sleep, so Lee left the baby with me in the crib, and they went out to
the lake.
Mr. Jenner. How did they get out there?
Mrs. Murret. Marilyn drove them.
Mr. Jenner. Your daughter Marilyn?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; she drove them out to the lake.
Mr. Jenner. Did Lee know how to drive a car?
Mrs. Murret. I don't think he did. I never saw him drive a car.
Mr. Jenner. You have never seen Lee behind the wheel of a car,
operating an automobile?
Mrs. Murret. Never.
Mr. Jenner. Did you ever hear that he did know how to drive an
automobile, though?
Mrs. Murret. No; I don't think he did, because when they went
to New York, when he went with his mother, she drove, she always
drove. I never knew him to drive.
Mr. Jenner. So anyway, Marilyn took them out to Pontchartrain
Beach, and they went crabbing; is that right?
Mrs. Murret. That's right; and they didn't get any crabs, so on
the way back Marina was fussing at Lee in Russian, and Marilyn
must have said, "Well, what is she saying?" you know, so Lee said,
"Oh, she's just like a woman; she's no different. They are no
different whether they come from Russia or France or some place in
Louisiana. They are all alike. They don't appreciate what you do for
them." Marina was telling him that it was so stupid for them to be
taking these crab nets, spending $1, I guess it was, for everything,
when he could have gone to the French Market and bought a dozen
crabs for $1.25 or $1.50. She didn't see any sense in spending
money and going out and not catching any crabs when you could go
and buy them at the French Market. She missed the point where the
boy liked to do that for pleasure. She thought it was a bum idea.
She told Lee it would be better to just go and buy some crabs and
not go through all that trouble, but anyway they came back home,
and they stayed until about 10 o'clock. They ate supper, and so
forth, and the baby got a little friendlier. They played ball with the
baby, and she came around a little bit, and I think Mr. Murret drove
them home, and that was it.
When they left, we told them that at anytime when they wanted
to come over again to let us know, and Mr. Murret would be glad to
come and get them, but Lee said, "No, we don't mind coming on the
bus," but then I don't think they came around for a while after that.
In the meantime he must have lost his job at the Reily Coffee Co.
Mr. Jenner. How did you learn that?
Mrs. Murret. Well, he told me.
Mr. Jenner. How did he come to tell you that?
Mrs. Murret. He called me and again he said they just didn't
need another person on the job, that they had too many. That
seemed to be the only excuse he gave for losing a job.
Mr. Jenner. That was what he told you?
Mrs. Murret. Why he had lost his position?
Mr. Jenner. Yes.
Mrs. Murret. Yes. That's why he said he lost it in Texas. He asked
me if he could use my telephone number, because he would be out
looking for a job, and if anybody would call, then he could call every
afternoon to find out if anyone called, and I could give him the
message, so he had his name in at the Louisiana Employment
Service.
Mr. Jenner. The Louisiana Employment Service?
Mrs. Murret. Yes.
Mr. Jenner. Is that State?
Mrs. Murret. State employment, yes.
Mr. Jenner. All right; go ahead.
Mrs. Murret. During that time he was getting State employment
from Texas, from that job, when he first got here, because he got
one of those checks when he was at my house, and then he was
collecting State employment while he was off of this job here, when
he got out of work, so he was probably collecting both checks at the
same time. I don't think he ever found a job even though he
supposedly was trying, after that one, I mean. He said he was
looking for a darkroom.
Mr. Jenner. A what?
Mrs. Murret. A photographer's job, or something like that, so he
went down to a place in Metairie, but he had to drive a truck for that
job, and he told me he couldn't take the job because he didn't know
how to drive.
Mr. Jenner. He did tell you that?
Mrs. Murret. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. When was that?
Mrs. Murret. That was when he was out looking for a job.
Mr. Jenner. He told you he couldn't drive then?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; he said he couldn't take that job because he
would have to drive a truck.
 Mr. Jenner. That would have been in the summer of 1963 now; is
that right?
Mrs. Murret. Oh, yes; while he was here. I don't think he ever
found any other job after that here.
Mr. Jenner. Do you know how long he stayed on this job at the
coffee plant?
Mrs. Murret. No; I don't. There's something else. Before he got
this job at the coffee plant, I think he had Mr. Murret loan him $30,
or maybe $40, to pay part of his house rent, but after he got that
job at the coffee plant, he paid that back to Mr. Murret. I told him,
"If you need anything, Lee, ask for it," because sometimes I felt
guilty. I thought maybe when people like that need something, we
should go ahead and get it for them, but then I told myself, "Well,
no, since he is the type of person who is so independent," so I just
stood back and waited to see if he could bring himself to come to
me for something, because it was apparent that they needed a lot of
things, him and Marina, but he never did, except for that loan he
made from my husband to pay part of the house rent and the time
he asked if we could put him up for a week while he looked for a
job, but otherwise it seemed like he didn't want anybody to do
anything for him. I did ask him several times if there was anything
we could do for them, or get for them, and he would said, "No; we
have everything," and then one time I offered him a spread, and he
said, "No; we have everything," and the funny thing was that when
they came that Saturday, he said to me, he said, "Marina says we
will take that spread now; we don't have a spread," so Marina must
have bawled him out for not taking the spread in the first place. I
mean, she must have thought he ought to have accepted it. So they
went home with the spread after all.
Mr. Jenner. This was when they first came?
Mrs. Murret. Yes. So then he would call in to find out if anybody
had called from the employment agency. He had his names in at a
private agency, besides the State employment, and he did get
several calls and I gave him the message. One time I remember the
man left his name, but I wouldn't remember that now.
Mr. Jenner. Might your husband remember that?
Mrs. Murret. No. My husband was never around when all this
was going on. My husband couldn't tell you anything, so then I went
away. I went to Texas for 2 weeks. I left on July 1 and I returned on
July 14.
Mr. Jenner. To visit your son?
Mrs. Murret. No; my daughter, in Beaumont—Joyce. That was on
July 1.
Mr. Jenner. Had Lee lost his job by that time?
Mrs. Murret. He must have. I didn't know it, but he must have in
between that time.
Mr. Jenner. While you were away, he lost his job?
Mrs. Murret. It could have been in between that time; yes.
Mr. Jenner. Did he say anything to you about losing his job, that
you recall?
Mrs. Murret. No; it was a long time after that that he said
anything to me about that.
Mr. Jenner. He didn't say anything to you for quite a while?
Mrs. Murret. No; he didn't say anything to me about losing his
job for a long time, so then Joyce came back. She had two adopted
children.
Mr. Jenner. Joyce is your daughter, who lived in Beaumont?
Mrs. Murret. Yes. You see, Joyce can't have any children, so she
adopted two children. One is 4 and one is 5, but she got them when
they were a month old, and they really are adorable. Now, Joyce,
hadn't seen Lee before, you see, or anything, and so then Lee and
Marina came over one day while Joyce was at the house with the
children. They had come at about 9 o'clock that morning, and stayed
till 9 or 10 o'clock that night. I was exhausted trying to entertain
Marina, you know, and not knowing how to speak Russian, or make
any signs that she would understand, and so forth, but she liked the
dinner, and she wanted to know how to cook some of the things that
I had, and Lee wrote the recipes down on paper for her, and I asked
them how she could tell to pick out cans when she went to the store
if she couldn't read English, and Lee said she could tell by the
pictures on the cans what she wants, but I don't think Lee liked too
much variety in food, just certain things.
Mr. Jenner. Did you say anything to her at any time, or to Lee,
about the fact that she wasn't speaking more English than she
evidenced?
Mrs. Murret. Yes; I asked Lee about that. I said, "Lee, how does
Marina like America?" and he said to me, "Well, you can ask Marina
yourself," so I said to Marina, "How do you like America?" and she
said, "Oh, I like America!" She said, "I like it; I like it!" Now, we
always did think it strange that Lee didn't seem to care whether
Marina learned to speak English or not. He was always talking to her
in Russian, and we didn't know what was going on, you see. I asked
him, "Why don't you teach Marina more English?" but he didn't pick
it up, so then—in August, I think it was, I was operated on for my
ear, and during that time Joyce was home. They had been at the
house before the operation. They knew I was going to be operated
on, and he came up there to see me, which I thought was very nice.
Mr. Jenner. You mean Lee?
Mrs. Murret. Yes. I was at that time at the eye, ear, nose, and
throat hospital, and he said, "How are you feeling?" and I said, "All
right." He stayed just a couple of minutes really, and he seemed to
be nervous—like, you know—and I thanked him for coming, and
then he went off, so that night Joyce came back to the hospital
again. That was a Thursday, I think, and I got out on a Saturday—
that following Saturday, so Mr. Murret was not there for my
operation. He wanted to stay, but he was supposed to go to a
retreat at Manresa, and he missed last year, because he couldn't get
off from work, so I said, "Well, don't miss it this year, because this
isn't serious, and there are no after effects." I said, "Go on to the
retreat, and it will be all right," so he went, and John, my son, was
in town, and he came up, and of course Joyce couldn't do too much,
because she had two children of her own to take care of, but
anyway I had the operation, and Joyce was to come up and get me
on Saturday at about 11 o'clock, so then Lee called, and this was
before Joyce left home to come up to the hospital, and he told Joyce
that he was over at the Parish jail, or something, the one on
Rampart over there, and he told her he wanted her to bring some
money up and get him out, and she said, "Mother, I don't want to."
She said she had been there twice with the money in her hand, and
each time she came back out again. She told me, "I don't know
what to do." I said, "Well, Joyce, I don't know what he's in there for;
do you know?" and she told me that she had talked to this officer up
there, and she asked him, "What's that kid in there for, before I bail
him out?" She was going to give the money to this officer to get Lee
out, but the man told her not to be foolish and give her money up
like that, because she might not get it back. She said he told her,
"Don't give up your cash because you may never get it back." He
said, "Have somebody parole him." So Joyce didn't know what to do.
She had been out of New Orleans a long time, so she didn't know
what to do. This officer showed her the sign that they said Lee was
carrying, and on it it had, "Viva El Castro," so when Joyce saw that,
she said, "Oh, my God," she said, "I am not about to get him out of
here if he's like that," so she didn't know what to do, but she didn't
give up her money. She said, "Here he was supposed to be out
looking for a job, and he was doing things like that, walking up and
down Canal Street all day long with signs and everything."
This officer told her that he had told Lee, "If you want to carry
these 'Fair Play for Cuba' signs around, you are going to have to rent
yourself a hall, and have your meetings in the hall," and he said,
"But you can't carry signs like that in the business district."
The officer said that what he was doing wasn't so bad, but Joyce
thought it was terrible, you see, so Joyce came on out to the
hospital. She didn't get him out of jail. She didn't give up her money.
So when we got back home, it wasn't long until he called on the
phone again, and the first thing he did was get kind of rude with
Joyce. He wanted to know how come she hadn't gotten him out yet,
and didn't she have the money, and she said, "No, I don't have any
money." She said that she had just gotten her mother out of the
hospital and used up the money, and she told him, "I don't have any
money to get you out of there."
Also, Joyce had found out that he had been in there since Friday.
You see, Joyce was under the impression that he had just gotten in
jail, so Joyce asked him, "How long have you been in here?" and he
said, "I don't know how long I have been in here," and Joyce said, "I
know; you have been in here all night," and he said, "Well, just
come and get me out," and Joyce said, "Well, I don't know; I'll have
to think this thing over," and then she said, "I don't have any
money," and then he said, "Well, I'll tell you what you do." He said,
"I want you to go out to the apartment and see Marina, because
Marina has $70.00 and you tell Marina to get that money and come
and get me out," and Joyce said, "Well, I have to get mother into
bed, and I have no one to keep my two children while I run up
there," and he said, "Well, ask one of the neighbors to mind the
children," so in the meantime Joyce told me what he had said, and I
told her, "Well, I don't know. I don't like to exactly ask for favors
from the neighbors like that," so she said she didn't know what to
do, so we talked about it awhile, and then we decided to call this
man that we knew, and we called him, and he told us what had
happened, that Lee had had a fight with some Cubans, and
everything, and we were still wondering what to do about Lee being
in jail and everything when, a little while after that, he called back
and said that everything was all right, that Lee was out.
Now, we didn't see Lee though. I guess he went on home. Then
Mr. Murret came back from Manresa on Sunday evening, or Sunday
night I believe it was, and when we told him about it, he was
horrified, you know. He went right out to their apartment to talk to
Lee, and he asked Lee in a fatherly way, what was he doing, you
know, who he was connected with, and so forth, and whether he
was with any Commie group, and Lee said no, he wasn't, and Mr.
Murret told him, he said, "You be sure you show up at that
courthouse for the trial," and Lee said, "Don't worry, I'll show up,"
and he told Lee, he said, "You ought to get out and find yourself a
job." "You have a wife and child and one coming," and so forth, and
then we didn't see Lee any more until Labor Day, I believe it was.
Lee called up that morning, and he said he and Marina wanted
to come over that day and spend the day, and I said, not right away,
but suppose they come over around 3 or 4 o'clock in the afternoon,
because I think I was busy that morning, or something, so they did.
They came on the bus, and Mr. Murret happened to be passing by,
and he picked them up and brought them to the house, and I asked
them if they had had dinner, and they said yes, but I don't think they
had. I told them I would go up to the store and get some rolls, and
we could have some coffee and rolls, so I did, and I made coffee,
and we sat down and ate the rolls, and to tell you the truth, I don't
think they had eaten anything, because they ate up all the rolls.
I made hamburgers too that night, and they each ate two
hamburgers. John was there too. After they finished eating, it was
time to take them home, and John brought them home.
Mr. Jenner. In his car?
Mrs. Murret. Yes. I might say too that Mr. Murret talked to Lee
quite a bit about him not trying to teach Marina how to speak the
English language. He said, "Lee, we love Marina very much, but we
feel very bad that we can't converse with Marina, because you speak
to her all the time in Russian, and we don't know what is going on
and she doesn't know what is going on with us. Don't you think you
should teach her the English language?" and Lee said, "No." Then he
said, "I'll tell you right now, I will never teach it to her," and then he
said, "I don't care if she wants to learn, but she is not going to learn
from me." He said, "I am not going to teach her, because I don't
want to lose my Russian," but he said he didn't object to her
learning the English language, but at the same time he kept on
talking in Russian to her.
I asked him, "Why do you want to keep up your Russian, Lee;
do you intend to go back to Russia?" but something happened right
then—somebody did something or other, and he never did answer
that question, so that was all of that. So we brought them home.
John brought them home in his car, but before he took them home,
he drove them out and showed them the church that he was going
to be married in, and he also took them up on Palmer Avenue and
showed them the home where he was going to have the reception
with his girl friend, at her house. It's a large home on Palmer
Avenue, so he took them and showed them all of that, and then he
took them home, and we didn't see them any more.
Mr. Jenner. Is that the last time you saw either one of them?
Mrs. Murret. Yes.
Mr. Jenner. Did you have any contact with them by letter,
telephone, postcard, or otherwise?
Mrs. Murret. No, nothing. Then the next day or the day following
that, two men came to the house from the FBI.
Mr. Jenner. That was Labor Day, was it?
Mrs. Murret. No. Labor Day was the last day I saw them. This
was a few days after Labor Day, I think.
Mr. Jenner. After Labor Day?
Mrs. Murret. Yes. They came to the house and knocked at the
door, and I went to the door, and they didn't tell me who they were
at first, but they approached me, and asked me, "Does a young
couple live here?" and I said, "No; no young couple lives here, nor
did any young couple ever live here," and then they asked me, "Do
you know Lee Oswald?" and I said, "Yes, I do; he's my nephew," and
he said, "Well, do you know where he lives?" and I said, "Well, yes,
he lives in the 4900 block of Magazine Street. I don't know the
number, but it's in the 4900 block," and then they told me who they
were.
Mr. Jenner. That's when they told you they were FBI agents?
Mrs. Murret. Yes. Then the next day they came back, and they
told me that a lady, a neighbor, or whoever they heard it from, said
that a lady with a station wagon was there. I said, "Well, probably
that's the same lady who brought Marina here from Texas, and took
them back to Texas."
Mr. Jenner. This was the 20th of September, is that right?
Mrs. Murret. Yes, I think so, and that's the last I knew of them. I
never heard anything else about them, but now, I skipped over
something—in between that time he called one time, and he said
Mrs. Paine was going up to see her relatives, I think, and that she
was going to pass through New Orleans and visit with them, but he
didn't say that they were leaving with her and going back to Texas,
or anything like that. He just said Mrs. Paine was going to come
through here and visit with them. He also said that Mrs. Paine knew
a Tulane professor.
Mr. Jenner. A Tulane professor?
Mrs. Murret. Yes, sir; a Tulane professor. He could have been a
language professor, I imagine, because I remember him saying that
he had a daughter that was attending the university in Moscow, and
they either went to his home or they came over to Lee's house. That
I didn't get straight, and he showed slides, and so forth, on Russia,
the way I understand it.
Mr. Jenner. Who showed the slides?
Mrs. Murret. The professor, but I think Mrs. Paine was the one
who knew the professor and all that.
Mr. Jenner. You say his daughter is in school in Moscow?
Mrs. Murret. He is supposed to have a daughter in the university
over there, yes, sir; or he did have. That was my understanding.
 Mr. Jenner. In Moscow?
Mrs. Murret. I think he said Moscow, but that's the last I heard
from Lee Oswald and Marina.
Mr. Jenner. All right. Now, tell me one thing you left out?
Mrs. Murret. What's that?
Mr. Jenner. The trip over to Mobile.
Mrs. Murret. Oh. Well, that came in—I don't remember the date.
Mr. Jenner. Was it sometime in July or August of 1963,
somewhere around there?
Mrs. Murret. Well, Lee wasn't working about that time, and my
son Gene was over in Mobile, and he hadn't seen Lee for a long
time, and he had asked if we could bring Lee over so he could see
him. Gene had graduated from Loyola and had went into the
Service. He was in there for about 3 years, and when they were
activated, they went into Germany and everything, and when he
came back he entered law school and went to law school.
Mr. Jenner. At Loyola?
Mrs. Murret. Yes, for 3 years, and then he decided to become a
Jesuit.
Mr. Jenner. A Jesuit priest?
Mrs. Murret. Yes. So he was over at Mobile by then, and
naturally when I wrote to him I told him about Lee, and he said he
would like very much to see Lee, and that he would like for Lee to
come up there and bring Marina up and visit him, so we arranged to
take Marina and Lee up to Mobile. We left on a Saturday around
noon, and I believe Joyce was with us, and also her two children.
Mr. Jenner. How long were you gone on that trip?
Mrs. Murret. Well, we came back that Sunday afternoon, or, we
left there about 2 o'clock, I think it was.
 Mr. Jenner. Had there been any discussion in advance about Lee
giving a lecture or anything to the boys there at that school?
Mrs. Murret. Not that I know of.
Mr. Jenner. What's the name of that school, Mrs. Murret?
Mrs. Murret. What school is that?
Mr. Jenner. At Mobile?
Mrs. Murret. Where Gene was?
Mr. Jenner. Yes.
Mrs. Murret. The Jesuit House of Study.
Mr. Jenner. The Jesuit House of Study at Mobile, Ala.?
Mrs. Murret. Yes, Mobile. So Gene asked us to bring Lee and
Marina over, and, you see, they allow a speaker over there at that
school so many times a year, and he said maybe Lee could speak on
his experiences in Russia.
Mr. Jenner. Then there was a discussion in advance of Lee's going
over there about his speaking, is that right?
Mrs. Murret. Only that he might speak about his experiences in
Russia is all. There wasn't anything else arranged that I know of, I
don't think.
Mr. Jenner. Was this in a conversation between you and your
son?
Mrs. Murret. No, by letter that was.
Mr. Jenner. By letter?
Mrs. Murret. Yes. We never would get to see Gene, you see,
unless we would go over there. He wasn't supposed to call us on the
phone or anything like that. But they do allow you to visit every so
often.
Mr. Jenner. Is he allowed to call you by telephone if it's important
and he gets permission?
 Mrs. Murret. No, he's not supposed to use the phone to call
home.
Mr. Jenner. But he may write you?
Mrs. Murret. Yes, and then we visit so many times a year—I
mean, we go up there, but that's all. Now, we call him, like on
holidays and things like that. We are allowed to do that.
Mr. Jenner. But he can't call you?
Mrs. Murret. No, he can't call us.
Mr. Jenner. Why is that?
Mrs. Murret. Well, they just don't like it.
Mr. Jenner. Do they like you to call up there? In other words, do
they mind if you call him?
Mrs. Murret. I don't think they like it, but, like I said, on holidays
or something we can do it.
Mr. Jenner. Was that one of the rules of the school authorities
over there?
Mrs. Murret. I guess so, because otherwise Gene would call us.
Mr. Jenner. All right. Now, tell me about your trip over there. Just
what happened?
Mrs. Murret. Well, when I saw Lee coming out of the house to
get in the car, it was a hot day, and he had this flannel shirt on, and
I said, "Oh, Lee, let me give you another shirt that won't be so
uncomfortable," but he wouldn't accept another shirt. He kept the
flannel shirt on, and that's the way he went over there. He didn't
want me to get him another shirt. He just wouldn't accept favors
from anybody. He was so independent. Well, anyway, we got over
there, and that night we were going to meet.
Mr. Jenner. That's you and your husband?
Mrs. Murret. And Joyce.
 Mr. Jenner. Joyce, your daughter?
Mrs. Murret. Yes.
Mr. Jenner. And her two children?
Mrs. Murret. Yes.
Mr. Jenner. And Lee and Marina, and their child June?
Mrs. Murret. Yes, and Ron and Jill.
Mr. Jenner. And Ron and Jill?
Mrs. Murret. Yes, they are Joyce's children, and Mr. Murret paid
all the expenses, including the motel rooms and the meals, and so
forth. Now, when Lee and Marina came out from freshening up, they
looked real nice. I was really surprised, especially at Marina. She had
got herself all dressed up, and she looked like a different person,
and he was very attentive too to Marina.
Mr. Jenner. Always?
Mrs. Murret. Always. Now, what he did at home—how he acted
around her there, I don't know, but when he was in my presence he
was very attentive to her and very well mannered. He would, I
mean, open the car door for her, and so forth—very attentive. He
would pull the chair out for her and things like that. He was very
well mannered. I have to say that for him.
Mr. Jenner. What was her attitude toward him?
Mrs. Murret. Well, she seemed the same way. They seemed to
get along very nicely together, I thought, when they were here in
New Orleans. They would take a ride out the French Market and buy
some crabs and some shrimp and come home and boil and cook
them. They got a big bang out of doing things like that.
Now, Marina was pregnant about that time, and we asked them
if we could do anything for her in the way of getting some sort of
treatment before the birth of the baby, but Marina didn't want any
treatment. She said she didn't need any, and it seemed like Lee must
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