Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Undoctrinate Yourself.

Today, I have a very

exciting podcast.
This is actually the first, like, trio podcast that I've hosted on the show, which
is exciting.
And it's with kind of two of the best people I could imagine, actually. We have
Scott Zimmerman
and Dr. Jack Cruz, both of which have been on the podcast before. And this is their
first
time connecting. So I'm really excited because Scott is just an absolute expert in
optics
and has been doing really cool work with Bob Fosbury, who's an astrobiologist, as
well as
Glenn Jeffrey. And we've talked about his recent study, especially with the 670
nanometer
light affecting blood glucose levels after 15 minutes of exposure, just very
dramatically, like
30%. I've referenced the study so many times on podcasts. And so we're in really
good company
here. And I thought we would start by passing the mic over to Scott to talk a
little bit about
some of the recent developments that he's been working on, both solo and in
combination with
Glenn and Bob. And then we also have some graphics that I think would be fun to
pull up that's got
sent over. So maybe we can also share screen. If you're watching on video, you can,
you know,
check out some of these graphs that that's got sent to kind of follow along. But I
guess with
that, do you want to take it away for a brief introduction of what you've been up
to? And just
let me know when you want me to share the slides.
Okay. Again, Scott Zimmerman, my background is optical engineering. I've spent a
lot the last
several years looking at the light, how light propagates in the body, and finding
some amazing
structural things that the body does to take advantage of sunlight. And I've been
trying to
get that translated into what we need to do for our indoor environment, because
it's becoming
clear based on the work that we're showing that there's a lot of negative impact
going on right
now with artificial lighting, both during the day and at night. And we're
disconnecting from a lot
of nature. So most of my work has been associated with trying to actually
understand how the body
uses sunlight. And it's a it's a it's actually very surprising that we didn't
understand more
about this area before. And it's, you have to move from a realm of two dimensional
to three
dimensional because light penetrates into the body. And maybe that that'd be a good
place to pull up
that one slide by Bob, if he could, Alexis.
Absolutely. So share my screen.
Okay, I'll just make a comment on the first one. So what's been going on is that
we've had a the
largest reduction in solar exposure in human history over the last hundred or so
years. And
it's not just that the amount of light we're getting, we've been altering the
spectrum. So
this is just a quick little graph that shows you what sunlight looks like, as far
as the spectral
content. And then when we went to incandescent, we got rid of some of the visible
and UV, but we
increase the amount of near infrared and infrared. And then what happened is when
fluorescence came
along, all of a sudden, we chopped off 90% of the solar spectrum. And but you still
came home to an
incandescent bulb to read to your children. So it was okay, maybe. But then what's
going on is
that government has started mandating the use of what I would call non-thermal
emitters, narrowband
visible only emitters to save some energy. And I would argue at this point that
that was a huge
mistake. And I hope that, you know, Jack might agree or disagree, but the change
has been
So then if you drop down, so I've been working a lot with Bob Fosbury and Glenn
Deffries. And, you
know, if you look at the literature, all the literature, most of the literature
sits there and
says that light doesn't penetrate more than a millimeter into the body. They don't
understand
how you actually measure a scattering volume. And I keep on saying it's like a
comparison. If you
take a nice clear ice cube, shine a green laser through it to a detector on the
other side, you
get, other than the Fresnel losses, you get all the light go into the detector.
Take that same cube
and make it snow and shine that laser into it. And all of a sudden the detector
drops off
dramatically. But the light's still there. It's wandering around. And so that's, if
you really
believe Bob's pictures, and this is a 850 nanometer, you basically are stuck with
the fact that all
that data, all those papers that claim one millimeter, are just wrong. And you
can't go
take a sheep head and shine a laser through it and say, oh, it's only getting 4%.
That's just not how
it works. Basically, in these lower, in these low absorption high scatter, or low
absorption, higher
scatter volumes, you have to look at it as the multiple bounces that are going on
around. And
it actually increases the time the photons stay within the body. So anyway, that's
kind of where
we're at. And what happened is, is that Glenn Jeffries has been doing a lot of work
over the years
looking at how sunlight increases longevity and reduces aging in everything from
bees to flies
to whatever. And he's finally got it up to the point that he's doing it on humans.
And lo and
behold, what do you find? You find that sunlight has a radical effect or a huge
effect, even small
amounts. You know, bear in mind, to give you a perspective on Glenn's work, you
know, sunlight
can put up to 30 megajoules into the body every day. Glenn is using 28 kilojoules
and doing it for
15 minutes and seeing a biological change in glucose levels, but more importantly,
an increase
in CO2 levels. And he's also showing that it extends on out. Now we're starting to
look at
other things like eye response and color contrast, and he's finding all these other
effects of
sunlight. So unfortunately, I don't know why, but sunlight is always the last on
the list.
They talk about food, they talk about, you know, so maybe Jack can answer to that
from the standpoint
of, it's just really frustrating that we focus on everything but sunlight in
defining health. And
I think that there's, it was a huge mistake. So I'll let you talk, Jack.
It's not the biggest mistake though. That's the, that's the crazy part of the story
that
since you're a photonics guy, the part of the story that really hasn't been talked
about
is actually the UPEs, the biophotons that are created inside. Why? Because the
argument
that you've put forth here, which I don't think anybody who will listen to this
who's interested
is going to argue with is the effect of sunlight on the system. That brings in
probably the big ideas in physics of Ilya Pirogin, that it's a dissipative system.
It's a bag of fluid
that you pump light into, light gets stored at the electronic and vibrational
levels.
I don't think anybody who follows Alexis or myself is going to have a problem with
that.
But when you actually talk about the physics that's involved there, especially the
optics,
you're basically taking sunlight that's 93 million miles away coming to the
surface. And if you really
think about it, those photons really don't have a strong power. Why? Because as you
know, as a light
guy, that the inverse square law dictates all of that interaction. The interesting
thing, to me,
the most interesting thing and the one thing that nobody's talking about, pretty
much except me for
20 years, is that when you shrink the scale of light, after the light is at the
electronic
and vibrational level, that these UPEs are released and these UPEs do something
radically different
than what your slide showed. We all know that sunlight needs full spectrum light
between 250
and 3100. That's where the longevity story comes. But when you actually look inside
the body,
you look inside the cells, you start to find out there's a spectral frequency
of biophotons that are released that are extremely important. I just started to get
into this with
another PhD like Alexis, Nick Chacombs, when I explained to him the basics about
hemoglobin
and how this is linked to the great oxygenation event. But there's a big, big story
here that
biology has really missed, that as you shrink the scale with light, photons
actually become
stronger. This is something that physicists have spent a lot of time on in CERN,
where they're
looking at the high end, they have to use computer modeling, but nobody's looking
at the low end
and no one realizes some of the things that are published in the literature. For
example,
if you take cyanide bound to the inner mitochondrial membrane, everybody knows what
it does,
that it basically kills you. But what few people realize is that you can use laser
light to remove
cyanide from the inner mitochondrial membrane, which brings up the point that you
mentioned
a little while ago about a sheep's head and shining a laser light threat. But I
don't think that
biologists and physicists have realized that as you shrink the scale of light and
light is emitted
from the electronic or vibrational level, you actually can do things with those
biophotons,
even though they're small. They're more powerful as long as they're targeted and
they're close
to their target. You can actually create not monochromatic light, but light that's
extremely powerful, that's able to do things to chromophores and different proteins
in the body.
To me, that truly is the edge of where we are. To be honest with you, hopefully
you're not upset
with me, either one of you. To me, this is subtle science, what you're already
talking about.
I don't even question it anymore, so I could care less. But what I really care
about is that
people understand that we've got to absorb this sunlight to get it into the system.
But then I think the bigger questions that nobody wants to talk about, like why is
the VDR receptor
so populated in the human gut? That's not a sunlight story. How come we're not
talking about
that? It turns out the reason why I think that's a big issue, in 1900, the 37th
leading cause of
cancer in humans was colon cancer. Today, it's number two. Everybody knows there's
a link between
the vitamin D receptor and this colon cancer link. The stuff that we're talking
about,
getting your colon in the sun, when you think about that, because you know that UV
light
doesn't penetrate, that's a story that biology still has not answered. They don't
really
understand that the light outside in and the light inside out is a totally
different story.
I tried to bring that up when I did the Uberman Rubin podcast two years ago. I have
to tell you
the fact that it fell on another PhD deaf ears kind of surprised me. So I guess
what I would say,
I totally agree with your slides, but I'm going to be honest with you,
that's not what fascinates me anymore. That to me is settled science. Everybody
knows that sunlight
does this, but not everybody really understands that the light inside of us
is actually more fascinating and does more unusual things that explain some of the
things that
in Alexis's textbooks that when she got her PhD at the Rabinowitz lab, she still
doesn't understand
fundamentally the story of hemoglobin, the story of why SOD and catalase really
work, and why
inter mitochondrial membrane doesn't have DHA on it, but every single other
membrane does.
I'll give you another one just to throw things out there, because I am trying to be
extremely
provocative. I want you to think about the human gut. You know, Scott, that the
human gut is a big
tube that goes from our mouth to our asshole, and that gut is not exposed to light.
Yet,
as a filament in our light bulb, it's got the VDR receptor in it tremendously, and
not only that,
there's a change in the VDR receptor between the lower esophageal sphincter and
your anus,
and there's another change. The stuff that's present in the stomach, those nerves
that
innervate there are more myelinated. The amount of bacteria that's present in the
stomach is 10 to
the 1, but yet the stuff that's in the colon is 10 to the 14th. The stuff that goes
on in the colon
is fermentation, not TCA cycle. So guess what? There's another story here that our
gut,
the filament of the light bulb, mimics exactly what happened in our evolutionary
history with
the GOE. The GOE, a story 2.4 billion years ago, when light was really impacting
the two domains on this planet, which is bacteria and archaea, before we come
on this stage, that story is found actually in the human anatomy of the gut,
and the craziest part of the story, the myelination of the enteric plexus,
where the most common part of the VDR receptor is, happens to be in the most
anaerobic,
hypoxic environment of the gut, and here's the other crazy anatomical thing that I
don't think
a lot of people know. The enteric plexus of the colon is less myelinated and has a
higher
mitochondrial density. So if you think about the slide that you just put up and you
think
about the paper that you did about glucose metabolism in red light, at some level
you
got to start to ask yourself this question, because I'm going to tie this in a nice
bow,
back to what you said to me. We know what the sun does on the surface,
but do we know what prokaryotes are capable of doing with light on the inside of
our gut,
and how that light may mimic or may be different than the light that the sun
provides to our
integument, and why is it that things that should not be where it is if we have the
dermatology
and ophthalmology sense, namely the VDR receptor, why is it more prominent
from the lower esophageal sphincter to the anus? Does this somehow explain why if
you believe
Darwin, which I've clearly said in multiple podcasts, I don't, because small little
mutations
should lead to changes. Well, how did we go from 37th and colon cancer deaths to
number two in 125
years when we innovated Tesla's AC power grid and we plugged things into it, which
simulates
your actual slide? Because one of the things that you said that really got me
thinking about
where I was going to take you was you said, and you can correct me if I'm wrong,
you said this
is the greatest reduction in quantum yield that humans have ever faced, and I
completely agree
with that statement. Even I think Alexis chimed in, so yeah, I think Jack would
agree with that,
but there's a bigger story here. We need to realize that one of the big
reductions in quantum yield that happened in our evolutionary history, and when I
say our,
I'm not talking about human, I'm talking eukaryotes now, happened not only at the
Cambrian explosion, but also happened at the KT event. And the crazy thing is the
story that I just
shared with you a little bit, where my fascination is actually links to those two
events. Why? Because
they're also quantum yield events, meaning the Cambrian explosion, we go from two
domains to
three domains and we have 32 files show up overnight. And what do we know about G
class stars?
You said you're working with a guy that works in cosmology. Well, sit him down and
ask him this
question. What does he know about G class stars? Hey Jack, can we back up just a
little bit?
I know that you do this and it's part of how you go, but first off, I got into the
stuff I was
doing because optics is my field, and what you find is that a lot of what you're
saying doesn't
pan out when you look at the optics. From the standpoint of the, while I don't
doubt that
there is a possibility of generating biophotons, they tend to be on the order of a
hundred photons
per second per centimeter squared, making them about eight orders of magnitude
irrelevant compared
to everything else. Now, I'm not going to argue with you about whether or not there
are blue
photons and whether or not there's some magical way that they're bouncing around,
but optically,
200 nanometers isn't going very far in the body because it's going to be absorbed
very strongly.
So I guess I'm just saying that, you know, I understand you're over on the blue
side,
I'm over on the near infrared side, but if we could go down through some of the
stuff we found,
I think you're going to see that what you're trying to get, I know you want to have
this blue
component inside the body filling us up, but we haven't even got to the point that
we're looking
at how the body is using the solar spectrum that is external to the body yet, and
that's what I'm
trying to do. And quite honestly, you know, if you go down, Alexis, can you go down
to the next side?
One of the things that I think you might find fascinating is that if you actually
do look at
the solar spectrum, and believe me, you know, go on down to the next slide. So not
that one,
one more. Okay. Okay, so this is some of the work that Bob and I've been doing,
looking at what is going on in the solar spectrum. And one of the problems has been
is that everybody
keeps on looking at sunlight in a particular way. So I'm sorry, go back to the one
above it.
Mm hmm. Okay. So on the graph on the left is what everybody thinks of what this
solar
spectrum is, you know, you see this, oh, it's all this energy is, or is in the
visible portion.
And by the time you get into the near infrared, nothing's going on. And the reality
is, is that's
not the case. If you look at it from the standpoint of the mitochondria, and what
the body actually
wants to see, if you do it in what the same, we are a solar collector. And if you
go and look at
how people look at the sunlight in the solar collector community, doing solar
cells, things
of that nature, you'll see that they do everything in electron volts. And what if
you do change over
to the spectrum into electron volt, you get the graph on the right, which is
actually what a more
illustrative of what the body cares about. And what it shows is, is that the near
infrared component
and the infrared is actually much more important to the body than blue or violet or
any of these
other things, because they tend to be very high photon energy. They can't go very
far in the body
because they get absorbed very strongly versus if you get into the near infrared or
into the infrared,
you have a much different optical characteristic, and we are much more the same.
And so the next slide to address Jack's issue about stars or sunlight, it turns out
that there
is what is called the hydrogen minus opacity window in sunlight. And it is what
actually gives
the body, what it causes is the fact that those photons between about 1.5 EV down
to 0.25 EV
are actually can come from deeper in the sun, so you get an actual increase over
what people think
is going on. This is the region where the body does most of the energy levels,
that body does most of its biological processes. So it turns out that the body has
optimized over
billions of years to take advantage of this spike in the infrared portion of the
spectrum,
and it lines up with a lot of the other things. And you can see the difference in
how we look
as a function of energy levels in the pictures below. And so by the time you get
into the area
where this is going on, the body is strongly absorbing, it happens to be the region
where the
highest photon density occurred. So I totally disagree with Jack on his premise
that we know
what's going on here. Nobody knows this stuff. This is just coming out now. And if
you don't take
it into account, then you're missing the majority of the thing. So if you go drop
down to the next
slide. So what appears to be going on is we are basically designed to do quantum
tunneling,
multiple hopping, because the problem is if you try and jump a stream in one hop,
it could take you days or you could never get there. If you put a bunch of stepping
stones,
which is what is actually going on in the mitochondria with the different proteins,
you can rapidly move that change at time constant to milliseconds, which is
actually what the ETC
needs in order to generate the ATP that it's generating. Again, if you go on down
to the next
slide. So we basically are providing with sunlight, we provide the ability for
those
electrons in the ETC chain to more efficiently. That is exactly what Glenn's
experiment shows.
If you put longer wavelengths in contact with the body or into the body, we are
making the ETC
more efficient. And the reason is, is because we are doing what they call photon
assisted
quantum tunneling. So that is why Glenn's experiment is so important and followed
up
with some of the others that he's doing. We're starting to understand that the
portions of the
spectrum that we thought were unimportant are actually the most important part of
what's going
on. I do not disagree that there may be photons being generated. It's like the same
thing with
the reactive oxygen species. The only reactive oxygen species that can stick around
long enough
to be really effective is hydrogen peroxide. All the other reactive oxygen species
have very short
half-lives, so they can't do anything. If you drop on down to the next slide.
So what you get is you get the normal ability to tunnel across a barrier. If you
look at the ETC
or the various papers out there, we typically are talking about a barrier of a few
10 angstroms at
most, and we're popping the electron across it. The more we do, if you do the
quantum tunneling,
which is in the green, you can extend that. And then if you're adding sunlight,
and then if you're adding sunlight, that's what's allowing us to increase it. It's
not that the
sunlight is directly making ATP. Sunlight is basically allowing the electrons to
move more
efficiently and more rapidly down the electron transport chain to then generate.
And they also
are providing the same problem is on the proton side, because they're 2000 times
heavier. They
basically can't get back once they've been pushed across the membrane. I'll just
get through these
real quick. And Bob, to your point, no, you're wrong. We do not understand what's
going on on
the optics in any way, shape or form. To my knowledge, this is the first graph
where we show
that actually at night in the twilight, it is the blue and the cyan that is being
used
to actually do the circadian response. So there's lots of things to learn. I'm not
disagreeing with you on any of it. And I think we're actually trying to get to the
same point.
But to say that we understand what's going on with how sunlight is propagating
bottom
is an absolute false statement. And I just can't agree with it.
Yeah, well, I would disagree with you. I think what you're doing is great. But I
think
this is a lot of the same work that Tina group has already done. We know that
sunlight
is important. What the optical density is, we actually know that the hydrogen
spectrum
is the reason why evolution picked some of the things that are present on the inner
mitochondrial membrane. So I don't I don't find this shocking at all. I'm glad that
you guys have
done the work. But I don't think that that's going to be the thing that moves the
needle.
I think a lot of people understand that red light penetrates that red light gets to
every
mitochondria. I think also people understand quantum tunneling. I think the I guess
the
bigger framework is how does it all fit with the stuff that's printed in in in our
biochemistry
books? How does it fit with what Alexis learned and what I learned in medical
school? To me,
that's actually where the rubber meets the road. Well, I guess I don't understand
what,
you know, we've got your you're talking about. I guess my problem is, is that we
have these
effects are going on. We know that we're degrading. We've we and the one variable
that we have
changed. We didn't change blue. We brought blue up. We didn't change. We got rid of
90% of the
solar spectrum. And I'm sorry, she wanted to call it cytochrome C or whatever.
That's not right.
And what we're showing is is that there is another methodology that doesn't require
a chromophore.
It is just a simple physical effect or physics effect. And quantum tunneling via
photon
assisting is a well-known process. I agree. But it's not been used in the terms of
the ETC.
As far as I know, I also you know about the work that Jim El-Khalili is doing over
at Sarah
University because he's talked about this for 15 years. Now he's not he's not
generated a graph
like you have. But he he certainly has talked about these effects about photon
assistance and
quantum tunneling. Do I believe that he's actually linked it to sunlight? Probably
not. But
I don't think the leap between his work and Tina Carew is how shall we say quantum
leap
for people that understand this science. I think what you're saying is that you
guys have generated
these pictures. There's nothing about these pictures that I would disagree with at
all.
Yeah, the point that I'm trying to make you is you said something that I think
that you said that was axiomatic that we don't know this. I think we do know this.
The thing is we don't know how it fits within the framework of truly what's
happening inside
the body. That I would agree with you. But to say that we don't understand that
sunlight
links to longevity, I think that's pretty disingenuous, especially with some of the
work that I've done, some of the work that even some of the biophysicists have
done.
So I don't know why. Well, I'll put it this way. I mean, Jack, I mean, come on, the
if you look at the literature, there is no discussion of the effect of sunlight on
mitochondria, almost zero. I mean, I'm sorry, it's just not there. And if you talk
to someone who's
spent 40 years doing mitochondria, and we were showing how the effect of the light
of his
microscope was altering the results he was getting, you know, I'm sorry, that's not
something that
people are really looking at. It's like the issue with blue blockers. It's like the
issue with,
as I said, the PBM people, they're all trying to bring in and come up with a real
reason
or what's really going on. I agree. We don't understand all of it. But the idea
that there
is some everybody would agree with your statement that, you know, maybe you've been
saying it, but
people aren't paying attention to it is the problem. And all I'm trying to do is
say,
here's what we're getting. And here's the graphs that are showing what is here's
the data
that's showing what's going on. And so you get you giving the data behind the
obvious statement
that's present at the 28th latitude, where the Sphinx is sitting, look to the AM
sunlight,
be grounded, that story is like photonics is an ancient story, I would agree with
you 100%.
That centralized science has probably ignored that for too long. But I think
there's pretty
good evidence in the biophysics literature that sunlight has a huge impact on
biology.
I don't I don't think that that is shocking at all. I think anybody could pick up
Marino's book, Hamlin's book, Carew's work, and actually see that we know that that
light
has to come from the sun. But we also know that the light that's inside of us that
you've,
you've really not spent a lot of time studying because I when I heard your critique
of what I
said, you said that you think that they make little light, you know, that the
intensity is
not there. Well, you need to realize when you're at a nano and at a level, those
things that are
sparse actually really do matter, because of the inverse square law. So I would say
to you, I think
that you've cemented what a lot of people have believed for the last 2500 years,
that I'm not
going to argue with you about. But to say that this was not known until these
slides were developed,
I just think that's a little bit disingenuous. I don't think I just said that I
said we're putting
the data out there. And we're showing that there are other ways to look at this.
And I'm not saying
one of the first things I did when I got started in this area is I went down and
talked to Hamlin.
And I walked away from that that meeting saying, but wait a minute, the levels that
you're using
and the wavelength ranges you're using are what we used to get in a well lit
incandescent room.
Okay. That's not showing that they understood what was going on. And I'm sorry, I
totally disagree.
I agree with you on that. You remember what I said to you in the beginning when we
talked,
I said that the light from outside in, remember what Hamlin is, if you want to call
him an expert,
he's an expert in PBM, which is generated through LEDs. LEDs is not equivalent to
the sun. I think
you and I both would agree with that. I don't think there's any argument from that
at all. But
once Hamlin's play here, Hamlin's play is that he sits in a centralized ivory
tower.
He's created a lot of books. He's created a lot of players, papers. Those papers
have linked
the effect of red light to mitochondrial function. Doesn't mean that red light from
a PBM device is
something that I'm going to get behind. I mean, I can tell you this as a clinician
in this space,
there's a reason I don't push any red lights from LEDs. Why? Because the sun is
irreplaceable.
That is something I've said for 20 years. It's not even controversial for me to say
that to you.
So I guess where I'm pushing back on you, for me, what you're saying to me, I
already get it.
I get it loud and clear. And I also know that Hamlin is not the be-all end-all. Do
I think,
however, that there's other people in the biophysics space that have pointed these
things
out? Yeah. And do I appreciate that you're generating data from the sun about red
light?
No question about it. You're never going to get pushback from me on that at all.
Okay. Well, I mean, I think that I don't think we're that far apart from the
standpoint of,
I disagree with you totally as far as whether or not that's well understood in the
literature.
If it is, if it's out there, it's basically been ignored.
That I agree with a hundred percent. Yeah. And that's kind of what I have the
frustration.
I mean, I'm an engineer. I'm trying to make products that can actually improve
health.
When I look at it, there was no, I mean, other than PBM guys that are shining some
red light
for 15 minutes, that's, you know, that's one aspect of somebody trying to fix a
problem.
But what I was trying, what we do is we basically try and make light sources that
cover the full
spectrum all the way from 200 out to about 4,000 nanometers. That's what we do. And
I was trying
to understand how does the body use all those different wavelengths? That is not in
Peru. That
is not what's going on as far as I can. You know that, right? I know that you know
about
John Ott's work. No. Oh, John Ott. Yeah. I know about John Ops work. And the point
was is that
he didn't really understand what it was doing. He made some really great, you know,
you're right.
You're absolutely right about that. But what I'm trying to say to you is remember
where my pushback
was to say that we don't know about it. We know about it. John Ops work is
absolutely shocking.
And when you consider that it was done in the 1960s, when Alan Fry is active, when
Becker is
active, John Ops work has been completely pushed to the side. He even tried totally
agree. He tried
to give it to medicine. He tried to give it to Pfizer. He tried to give it to Big
Pharma.
And what did they do with it? They put it aside because they realized what it
meant.
Well, I would argue that that is true to some extent. But also the problem was
is that Ott really didn't have a mechanism that he could go and shake it, you know,
say what is going on. You know, and I don't think the PBM really people have a good
mechanism either.
Let me push back a little bit here. I kind of agree with what you're saying. But
you're
basically telling the audience that the mechanism is critical in order to have
acceptance. And I'm
going to remind you, since you're an optics guy, about the story between Einstein
and Millikan.
Einstein gave the world the solution to the ultraviolet catastrophe in 1905. Nobody
believed
them for a really long time in the photoelectric effect. And what did the United
States do? They
hired a guy named George Millikan, who's a lot like you, to go prove that the
photoelectric effect
give us data that had actually really worked. And they wound up giving him a Nobel
Prize before they
gave it to Einstein. So here's my point about that. I don't think the mechanism is
as important
as you do because we got the mechanism in the photoelectric effect for UV light
before. We
actually got the hard data. And I don't think that Millikan's Nobel Prize changed
anything at all
with respect to light. So I'm going to tell you, I don't think changing the
mechanism
now with infrared light and things that we know happen between cytochrome 1 and the
ATPase
is going to change the mix. Where I do agree 100% with you is that do we need
lighting that John
Ott was the first person that I know of that actually made full scope lighting,
that he
actually brought this to people's attention, and he brought it to people who should
have done
something with it, which was in medicine, specifically dermatology, ophthalmology,
and big pharma. And what did they do? They buried it. And he went to the next
level.
He then took it to GE. Who were the people who were making these light bulbs that
were
creating a huge problem? What did they do? They buried his work. So again, I know
the history
in and out. Okay. And that's the reason I'm pushing back hard here. I think what
you're doing is great,
but I'm going to tell you, do we need full spectrum lighting? Yes. But I'm going to
say
something that I think you'll agree with. You may not like it, but I'm going to say
it.
There will be no light source ever created on earth that mimics the sun because the
way the sun
creates its light, it's impossible to recreate on earth. Are you talking about
intensity level
or spectrum? Well, the spectrum is not really important. I'm talking about how we
create
light from atoms. I'm talking about the front offer lights, whether the sun is a
gaseous fusion
model or an electric model, whatever you believe that's a material. The one thing
that we know
is those light transitions that come off those atoms are the key. And the fact that
they're
unpolarized and they come to us in the unpolarized state. Actually, it's almost
impossible for us to come up with something on earth that mimics full spectrum
light between 250
and 3100. Now, do I think where you're aiming, what your target is, what you're
trying to do
is to give us better sources than what the government is allowing us to have since
they've
got rid of the incandescent and gone to LED inflorescence? Absolutely. Do I think
that
should be a huge target? Do I think that you and your partners are going to be able
to improve
on what Hamlin is an expert on or what the PBM guys are currently shilling to
people out there?
No question about it. I'm not going to argue with you there, but when we talk about
the mechanism,
I don't think Ott needed a mechanism to actually explain this. Guess why? His
observational science
was absolutely brilliant. The problem was it was completely ignored by the people
who were
incentivized to ignore it. And I think when you put the mechanism in the
literature, as
you seem like you're wanting to do, you seem to believe, and this may be not fair
for me,
to put on you that once the mechanism is in the literature, that everybody's going
to run to you
with open arms. I totally disagree. Why? Because what you're proposing and what
I've already
proposed for 20 years is that light is better than drugs because it has no side
effect.
And that's going to be really disruptive for the people who are controlling the
game right now.
That, I think, is the big issue. And that's the reason why I've always pushed
people towards
the sun, not towards LED lights. I agree. What I'm telling you, though, is that
people
in general need to get, well, we are getting to the point of showing that Ott
didn't show other
than some videos, is that there is a harm associated with what we're doing now.
And that's the difference that I think you're missing, is that the harm that we now
have,
all these issues associated there, people are trying to assign to ultra-processed
food.
But sunlight, and light in particular, is more powerful than that effect, in my
opinion.
I don't think you know my work, though, because guess what? That's exactly what
I've been saying.
I'm agreeing with you. I'm not arguing it, but you're not getting that point
across.
And the missing element, in my opinion, is that we have not shown that there is a
negative effect.
When they made the transition to LEDs, and then all of a sudden there were all
these other issues
that started coming, some of the myopia, the autism, seeing those things that could
be tied
in with this, that case was not made. That argument was not made. There's a big
difference,
and I would argue that that's kind of what we're seeing. There's a big difference
through mom and
dad believing and strongly having evidence that what they're doing with LEDs is
harming their
child. Ott wasn't having to deal with that way back when. He didn't have that
element to pull in.
While he did show that there were some benefits, especially some of his videos of
changing.
Number one, he didn't give them true full spectrum. He gave them sort of full
spectrum.
Number two, there wasn't really this crisis, and I believe it to be a crisis, that
we've created
this artificial environment now that is harmful to the children that we're trying
to raise,
and that is so much different than what was done before. Gee, he didn't have to do
any change
because most people were buying an incandescent bulb anyway, but now we're
mandating, the
governments are mandating the exposure to only visible light of a very narrow, with
a high
level of blue to yellow ratio, that they are causing a harm. That's a much
different situation
to be in, and I understand, I totally agree with you that what you've been saying,
I agree with
92% of it. I'm not too big on the biophotons, but hey, the bottom line is that
right now we're
coming to a point where we are causing harm. I don't think anybody would disagree
with that.
I think everybody would disagree with that. Look at the government, what the
government's done.
I'm not talking about the government. The government is doing that because it's by
design.
The government needs people to be compliant, to be obedient idiots. I think that's
where you and I,
I think the big difference is, here's what you just said. You're an engineer,
you're looking at this straight from the biology side. I don't think you really
understand
who Alan Fry was, who Becker was, why DARPA is in this game, why the DOD has done
what they did,
why did Biden and Obama change the rules? Dude, this is a big story. I totally
agree with you,
but to say that people don't know that, to say that we don't have the mechanism
about how blue light damages, that mechanism has been in the literature literally
for 10 years.
The problem is nobody gives two fucks, and the reason they don't give two fucks is
because
they're using it. They're incentivized to use it, and that includes not only the
government,
but it includes big pharma. That's the real problem. I'm going to tell you,
keep doing what you're doing, but if you think publishing the mechanism is somehow
going to
change the game, oh, I don't, not at all. Okay. Well, I think it's great that we
can
agree to disagree. The point is that our focus is trying to get to the point that
we actually prove
that there is a negative consequence associated with removing 90% of the solar
spectrum.
We agree with that. The literature can be said to agree with it, but the point is
that they're
still doing it, and the point is that we need some way to get them to quit doing
what they're doing.
That's why we just went in with a petition to try and actually change DOE rules to
get rid of the
125 lumen per watt requirement. If we do nothing, if we just say, oh, we know this
stuff,
they're going to do what they're going to do, and they're going to do something
really dumb,
and that's the problem I have with the position you're taking.
I got what you're saying. I just would say to you that you are giving the
government credit
that I have subtracted from them 20 years ago. It's not dumb, it's nefarious,
you're saying.
It's nefarious. Scott, I'm just telling you, because I don't think this is where
Lexis
wants the podcast to go. I'm happy either way.
Let's stick to the science. I'm going to tell you that I think that you're being
really naive
to not understand who and why this is happening. I think here's the point that I
would make to you.
This is the point that I made when I was on the podcast with Danny Jones,
Mary Talley Bowden, and Cali Means. I said, look, I could give two shits about
processed foods.
The reason why, because when you go to the supermarket, you don't have to buy Fruit
Loops,
and you don't have to buy Red Dye number seven. I'm going to tell you that I'm
going to make the
same argument with light. I've never done this in a podcast, but I'm going to tell
you, I think this
podcast talking to you that here's a perfect example. All three of us have said, we
are not
going to go in DOD light because we're all outside in the sun. In other words, we
can make an act of
determination to go out in the sun. Now, where it gets really problematic is, as
you know, when
people have to go to work or drop their kids off at school for eight to 10 hours a
day, or you're
mandated to be inside, or technology brings us inside. Now, the government knows
this,
and they're actively using this. This is the point that I would make to you why,
when you dismissed
Ott, why it kind of viscerally bothers me. The Sarasota school experiment actually
lays this
case out directly. What did Ott really do? He showed in the 1970s that all you have
to do is
open the goddamn windows to make bad behavior go away. The problem is GE buried all
of that
information, because why? If people really understood that light can change our
biology
and change our behavior, are people eventually going to ask the question that Tina
Carew asked,
is red light a functional drug equivalent? The answer is, it is. Now, where you and
I
probably would agree, and where Hamlin and maybe Tina wouldn't agree, is that they
look at the
red LED spectrum that people are selling in PBM as probably the be all end all.
That's like the
answer to what the DOD is doing. No, I disagree with that. I think that there's no
replacement
for sunlight. That's the reason why, no matter what you do, and I may support what
you do,
because people will have to work. People will have to go to school. People will
have to go see
their doctors in some kind of lit environment. I'm completely okay with somebody
putting those on
the market. I want to be very clear to everybody listening to this. I think we need
different
spectrum bulbs that mimic the company that Ott built in Florida because of his
experiments,
but it was also eliminated by the government. It's never persisted after 1977
through 1980.
Nobody picked it up, and the reason it wasn't picked up wasn't because it was a
good idea,
it's because it challenged the people in power. That's the real issue here. If you
tell me,
which is what I'm hearing, that Jack, we're going to take and pick the torch back
up for Ott,
and we're going to create better light bulbs than Evie and he had. Why? Because our
technology is
better? Dude, I'm all about that. I'm never going to argue with you. One iota, but
I'm still going
to tell you, just like I tell the fucking idiots that sell the red lights, there is
no alternative
to sunlight, and there never will be. That is my come to Jesus message to
everybody,
that you need to be in the sun. The more times you spend inside the electric power
plant for
its life, the more time you need to be doing this, what we're doing right now on
this podcast.
I agree. I agree totally. As our fundamental statement that we start out every
conversation
with any customer is that we're trying to get them to go outside, but the problem
is that you
have to fight the dermatologists. You have to fight a lot of the medical community
that just
poof-poos what you're talking about. That's why, I mean, you say that it's well
known.
Roger is basically taking patients out and putting them in the sunlight for 20
minutes
and having dramatic effects. It's been known since forever in Africa. You bring
them to the
patient out, put them in the sun, take them back. It's kind of like we've actually
gone
as far the opposite direction that we could go to actually get to where we are now.
I mean,
from what nature does, you know, the design of hospitals. You're not going to get
an argument
from me, but you have to remember Roger is a younger doctor. I've been at this game
way
fucking longer than him. And I'm a neurosurgeon. I would take my patients outside
after I operated
on them and make them recover outside. So I agree. I agree. Let me just tell you,
there's a lot of people out there that know this is the truth. And let me explain
something to you
just how well known this information is, because I got to push back on you because
I think
you've been sold an idea that we don't know. It's been buried. Let me explain
something to you.
Do you know why surgeons operate between almost start their cases at six and try to
get done by
noon? Do you know the historical reasons why? It's because they heal better. And
that's actually
what surgeons are taught in the beginning. Now, the interesting thing is nobody is
recovering
their patients outside. Why? Because centralized medicine is completely controlled
that environment.
The same thing happens now with childbirth. Remember, most human babies that have
ever
been on this planet were not born in hospitals. That's just something that's
happened in the last
250 years. So the point that I'm trying to make to you is that we know this stuff.
The problem is
they are not reinforcing it in the education of doctors. And the doctors that
actually
look into this science and actually are able to see it like, well, why did we do
this 50,
60, 100 years ago and we're not doing it now? The answer is pretty obvious because
coding
doesn't support it. It's way better for the hospital and the centralized system to
keep
people in an artificial environment. Why? Because they become constant customers.
The goal is not to make them not customers anymore. They need to wallet biosecure
them
to the nth degree. And light is a big part of that control compliance program. So
I'm happy
that a guy like Roger has magically come to this belief system. But I got to be
honest with you,
dude. I mean, when I was a young doctor, I'm talking about in my twenties, I knew
this stuff
from the old fuckers that were teaching me. So to tell me that we don't know, I'm
sorry. That's a
real big pushback for me. Well, it's your choice how you want to take it. Bottom
line is it's not
getting out there. It's not being done. You can look at the design of a hospital
and you can see
that whatever you say that they're taking into account, but they're not. If you
look at the old
hospitals- They're not going to either. That's what I'm talking about.
That's based on your skepticism that people are actually trying to do good things.
I personally
think that I understand you're war wounded and gone through all these battles. I
understand that.
But at the end of the day, the forward progress has to occur in my opinion. And I
think that it
is starting to occur. I think you're starting to get more and more people,
especially with the
advent of all these. I'm not saying that you didn't understand this way back when,
but it's
not what's used in mainstream medicine. So you have a choice. You either say
they're intentionally
doing it or they just don't know about it. Those are your two choices as far as I
can tell.
And I tend to believe that a lot of the doctors have not been trained in this area
to understand
the effect of life. And part of the problem is that there is not enough data and
information out
there to make people aware of what's going on. That to me is so foreign. I get what
you're saying,
but what you're doing is you are catering to the psychoticness of how science is
delivered today.
Hey Jack, honestly, I've had so many papers turned down by journals that I don't
even
bother to go to journals anymore. I just do LinkedIn's, I do podcasts, because the
reality
is that it's much more effective and much more useful to me and I get better
feedback. I mean,
I love doing these kinds of things, having an argument with somebody like you. I
understand
you know a whole lot more than I do in some areas. I know more than you do in other
areas.
That's the way it goes. And so all I'm saying is that, you know, I guess I'm just,
maybe I'm just the new guy picking up the torch. I don't know.
But I don't think that's what it is. I just don't think that you understand the
enemy.
That's the key. And I want you to understand the enemy because you know what? I
want you to be
successful. You can potentially help a lot of people that are out there. But you
have come to
this with the belief that once you give the mechanism and the data to the people in
power,
that they're all of a sudden going to genuflect at the knee. I got news for you.
They've already
known. They've already known this data for a long period of time. So what am I
going to tell you?
I'm going to tell you that you're going to be just like Alexis and me. You're going
to be doing
podcasts and you're going to be teaching people the things that I warned about
Bobby Kennedy and
the things I've warned about Cali means that you can still make your choices around
light,
but you've got to make them. Why? Because nobody is coming to save your ass. Okay.
The government talks about you. The centralized healthcare system does not want you
to get better.
It's as simple as that. And you can change the bulbs out in your office. I don't
know if they're
going to let you change the bulbs out in schools. In fact, my belief is the only
answer for the
school problem, especially as it's developed from John Ott's experiment to now, the
schools
are now light prisons and they're done that way by design. So you have to probably
become a homeschooler.
You have to get books in front of your kids, take the wifi and screens away. Am I
going to tell
people if Scott makes light bulbs that are better than the ones that we have and
you can get them in
Home Depot and get them there, which I think is going to be an act of Congress,
you're going to
wind up probably having to sell direct to people. Why? Because I think, and this is
when you're going
to learn what I'm trying to teach you. When you come up with these devices, they
are actively going
to block you from selling. It's the reason why the EU changed their standards for
sunbeds to make
sure there was no UVB in them and only UVA, because they do, that it would limit
the effectiveness
for people so that they wouldn't ask the questions that we're kind of talking about
here. Hey,
by getting the sun, could this make me a smarter person so that I'll push back
against
digital ID, for example, since that's in the world now? I think, yeah, but I got to
be honest with
you, bro. I'm dead serious about this. This solution is something we need, but I
don't
believe that the people, by putting the data out, that the people who are going to
make the decisions
are going to somehow change. I mean, I want you to think about what we're saying
now,
because you, I, and Alexis just lived through the last five years. We know beyond a
shadow of a doubt
what's going on in the messenger RNA platform. Okay. It's, there's no question. You
can read
Bobby Kennedy's book about Fauci and now he's the head of HHS. And what is he
doing? Genuflecting
at the knee to the people in power. So you're going to tell me that somehow Bobby
doesn't know.
I know Bobby knows, but Bobby is finding out that the animal that he's dealing with
is a little bit
different. I mean, come on, bro. Hey, you know, come on. No, I think it's what I
find fascinating
is, is that, you know, what you just went through, I totally agree in a lot of
ways, but I think it's
a different world from the standpoint of what we're experiencing, exactly what you
just said.
We're selling direct to people and you're going to be successful because I believe
COVID has put
Windex on everybody's glass eye. I believe they now know that the people that are
in the decision
making tree, they're not, they're not helping us. Like they may put incandescence,
they may put
LEDs in the aisles of Lowe's and Home Depot, but they're not going to see Scott
Zimmerman's creation
in those aisles, but you're, you need to provide a way to get that to people.
But I can tell you, I think the science that's already been done, that people know
that light is
a problem. Now, the people that don't, you want to know the truth, the people that
really don't,
those are Alexis's people, people that she trained with at Princeton, the guy that
I just talked to
on the last podcast, Nick Jeholz about this very issue, the dude's got a PhD. You
know what he said?
He said the same thing you did. I didn't really know about this whole bio-photon
thing. So I don't,
I don't really understand it. You know what I said to him? The same thing I'm going
to say to you,
good, but what does that mean? You just got pushed to the edge, learn about it
because it ties in
to actually what you're doing with your light bulbs. That's the reason I'm a fan of
you building
those light bulbs. But what I've got to do is I've got to teach people the reason
why it matters,
the reason why you don't buy fruit loops and red dye number six is the same reason
you don't buy
fluorescence. You don't buy LED polarized lights that's red and think that
magically
you're going to get rid of, I don't know, your bone cancer or your ovarian cancer
or your diabetes,
because that ain't going to happen. Yeah, I don't disagree. I don't disagree.
Can I chime in on the bio-photon front really quick? Because I think it's a really,
it's something I want to study in the lab. And I think one of the biggest issues
that I've
seen, at least from my perspective, is like the detection issue. Because if you're
going to look
at bio-photons being emitted from a body, that's not the same thing as the bio-
photons being
created by the body. And I mean, Fritz Popp's work and Roland Van Wick's work
showing that
you're making these photons, but actually the health of your system and how old you
are is
dictating how much you're releasing into your environment. So I think as Jack has
mentioned
before, also, if we were able to create a miniscule photomultiplier and actually
look
at the cellular level in like at the level of the mitochondria, we might see a ton
of bio-photons
produced. They just don't make it out of the body because they're getting absorbed
by molecules and
structures within that system first. I'm hoping that after Scott makes the full
spectrum bulbs
that somebody gives him Roland Van Wick's book. And then he looks at it and goes,
okay, now,
I see another side to this light story that, believe it or not, what he just built
and gave
to people, actually, he's going to be able to really change. Why? Because the full
spectrum
bulbs that he delivers, he's actually going to see that there's UPEs change. And
it's going to
change in people, like he said, autism, diabetics, like he's going to go, there is
a new signature
when you use my bulbs versus GE or my bulbs and Siemens. Guess what? That is where
the needle is
going to move. Why? Because then what are you effectively doing? You're cutting out
the really
bad nefarious guys. The guys that are against Scott, me, and you, Alexis, those are
the guys
that are right next to you in New Jersey. Those guys. I do totally agree with you,
Jack, that
there are people that are highly motivated to not change the status quo with what's
going on
with lighting. And it's difficult to get around them. I was asked to write a paper
with Professor
Redder by the IES, the Illumination Society. And I wrote the paper, submitted the
paper,
and they tanked it. They basically refused to publish it. Because it does come to
the heart of
you can't add in the rest of the spectrum without using more energy. And they
didn't want to do that.
Right. Because that breaks the political narrative that's out there. Listen, Scott,
the thing that you just said there, just so you know, because I don't know if you
know this,
but I'm going to say it to you. That is exactly the same reason that Ott's papers
weren't accepted
by the paradigm in the sixties. So that's the reason I pushed back on you in the
first hour
where I said, Scott, trust me, you need to know the history of what's happened
behind you because
you really are picking up where Ott got destroyed. And do I want to see you
succeed? Absolutely.
But I want you eyes wide open to know who you're going against, because I got news
here.
They're stronger today than they were in 1966, than they were in 1977.
But haven't you made progress with El Salvador and the Incandescence? I mean,
didn't you get that back in? I made a market that's ready for you. I got news here.
I got
the president. I got a president right now that would buy all your fucking light
bulbs
overnight. In fact, he would convince you to come down here and build them. So I'm
going to tell you
that there's no question that that is there. But the point that I'm trying to make
to you,
because I'm a stickler about this, and I think people who follow me and listen to
my podcast,
I'm a historian. I know this history in and out around this science. And I'm going
to tell you
that you need to understand who's really behind this. Big Pharma is just the front
for the DOD and DARPA. And they're the ones that really want to keep light the way
it is.
I can tell you, when I sat down with Bukele, almost three and a half years ago, I
showed him
FBI data that showed that crime was worse since we've gone to LED bulbs. And when
he saw that,
you know his political affiliations and how he is about MS-13, right? You know that
Trump is trying
to do the same thing. Don't you find it's kind of fucking weird that Trump wouldn't
be behind
getting rid of Biden and Obama's light bulb standards? Well, I'm going to tell you
the
reason why, my friend, because Trump doesn't understand what you and I are talking
about
right now. He has no earthly idea, but guess who does? Bukele. That's part of the
reason why
Bukele said, I need these bulbs. And I'll tell you a follow-up. And this is really
for your
benefit, not the audience. When his brother got married three years ago at the
presidential palace
on Lake Cuauhtemocca, you know that President Bukele took a plane, flew to Miami
and bought
all red incandescents for the wedding, for his family, and then told everybody at
the wedding
that he was doing this to protect them. This is the leader of a country. And you
know what he
told them? This is important, Scott. He goes, I know this isn't good enough, but
this is the
best that I could do. So guess what, Scott? He is basically telling you loud and
clear,
if you build it, I will give it to my people. The problem is no one will build it.
Why? Because
it's not viable in the United States for the reason you mentioned. The idea of
climate change
and energy and us spending more energy in light bulbs and forgetting about the
biologic aspects.
The reason Roger, Schault, and all the other doctors don't know about this is
because of that.
And who controls the curriculum? Big Pharma. Who gets where most of their money?
From the government.
So this story is huge. And absolutely am I going to support you in building the
bulbs? No question.
Am I going to support aircrafts? No question. But where I'm going to push back, I'm
going to
tell you that the story is well known. It's just not well known to the people who
need it, which
are patients who are getting sick. But the people in the know, I'm talking about
the Bobby Kennedys,
I'm talking about the Marco Rubios, I'm talking about those guys, the bureaucrats
that are in D.C.,
they know the answer. They just don't want anybody else to know they know. That's
the key.
Well, my hope is that you're not, I don't have to go that far because it's cynical,
but they may be true. It may be true. Hey Alexis, can we go down through a couple
of the other
slides so I can get Jack's feedback on them? Please. Let me pull them up.
I appreciate it, Jack. So anyway, we're starting to see a lot of
use of structure in the body, and that is allowing us to basically absorb in
certain areas and
localize in other areas the photon density, which is what I'm basically focused on
right now.
You go on down the next one. So I did some models of the brain and you can jump in
on this one all
you want. Basically, we were showing that the transmission characteristics through
the skin
and the skull in the near-infrared just lined up perfectly with the cerebral spinal
fluid
acting like a light guide, bringing the light down into the fissures of the brain.
Can you comment on that? Yeah. I mean, I can tell you I've used these slides to
talk to other
neurosurgeons and explain to them actually the unusual characteristics of the human
brain.
Why is the brain the only organ that has light that comes from, I should say, blood
vessels that
come from outside in in the subarachnoid space surrounding by CSF? The reason is
because of what
you just showed here on the slide, because of how red light penetrates from the
sun. That is the
single most important thing, and believe it or not, neurosurgery is about 150 years
old. They don't
even know what's on this slide, and you know why they don't know it is because Big
Pharma doesn't
want them to know. How was I able to prove this to them beyond a shadow of a doubt
when we use
ICP monitors? Do you know that some of the new ICP monitors now are using red light
that actually
is a strain gauge to actually tell what the ICP is in the head? So I said to them,
I said, you guys
already know every time you operate on somebody, we use a pulse ox. I said, now you
see it in
strain gauges. When are you going to get the message that nature put this into us
two to four
billion years ago by how red light works with the sun? And are they asking good
questions?
Yes, they are. So I can tell you that this is very powerful information that
doctors need.
This is the reason why I think neurosurgeons are going to probably lead on this.
Why? Because I
think we understand light way better than the dermatologists do and the
ophthalmologists do.
Why? Even though they use light much more frequently in their specialties, they are
selling the idea that the sun is toxic to people when people already know. I'm
talking about
the regular Joes out there already know that their basil and oregano work way
better when
they're grown in sunlight. You don't have to convince them of that. The key thing
is you've
got to tell them that their grandchildren work exactly the same way. That when
people see this,
the people like Tina Carew and Hamlin, how are they helping Scott Zimmerman out?
Well, no, that red light actually helps your hair grow too. Well, guess what?
That's a function.
What's going on in your scalp? That's the topologic effect. Well, you're talking
about
it actually helps there too because of the optical window of the scalp, the bone
and the brain. All
of these things are incredibly important for people to understand. So if you've got
dementia
or you've got long COVID, this is the reason why the sun is irreplaceable in
helping you fix some
of these problems. Yeah. No, I mean, it was always amazing to me. The more I do the
optical models
of the body, every time I turn around, I mean, what goes on with the fetus early in
the pregnancy
and then as the pregnancy progresses, the spectrum that the fetus is exposed to
changes as a function
of skin stretching. It's just to me, it was every time I would turn around, I'd
find some other
mechanism the body was using sunlight for, yet I wouldn't find that people were...
And I'm not
disagreeing with you that you understood, but I had a really great podcast with
midwives and it was
just absolutely fascinating how little they understood the effect of light in the
progression
of pregnancies. And I guess that's my thought. Could you go to the next slide,
Alexis?
So one of the things that I've also been very focused in on is hormones, and I'd
like your
opinion, Jack, is that I've looked at the transient response and I know there's the
standard circadian
cortisol to melatonin, but we've been working with some new sensors to try and
actually understand
the short-term effects. And these are some transient responses where if you go and
eat,
you see a cortisol spike, then a little bit farther down the road, you see a
melatonin spike,
and these are happening during the day. So there's all kinds of transient responses
in this control system that we call the body that I don't think people were aware
of.
And this sensor is measuring sweat every three minutes.
Yeah, let me tell you, the next step for you, since you're interested in this,
since you're building sensors, just realize... But I haven't really told this story
publicly,
but I'm getting ready to. I sat down with a very competent biochemist 10 or 15
years ago,
and I tried to explain to him what you're trying to explain on these slides, that
each chemical has an absorption and emission spectrum. So for example, I know as an
optimal
guy that the aromatic amino acids, which create most of the protein in our body,
are very active and they have very specific absorption and emission spectrums. I
think
when people start to relate those spectrums to the things that Alexis is expert in,
in the biochemical boxcars, you'll begin to see that more clean stuff for
biochemistry is light
frequencies. Those light frequencies are the MPEs that are made from the DNA. But
believe it or not,
you need to know this. There's papers out there already that blood actually makes
bio photons. Can you clue in on another one? Soda is myelin. Why is this a big
deal? You know,
as a photonics guy, the color links to what things can absorb. So for example, if
you put
your cell phone on a black hood of a Mercedes, you get the temperature warning on
your cell phone
fast. Remember, all the white matter in your brain is white for a reason. That
actually
clues you in that there's another story going on with light emission inside the
body.
So your slide that you showed earlier about the brain, knowing that the gray matter
is on the top
and it goes into the white matter below. And when you show these pictures about the
sweat that's on
the head, this is the link between having no valves in the brain being linked to
the granulations
that are there that are present to the galvanic stimulations on your skull. This is
the reason why
actually things that the FBI uses actually work. But do I think that you're going
to be able to
find out that there's hormone changes in the sweat that links to absorption and
emission
specters that you're going to be able to control with the lights that you're going
to build?
Yes, I believe you're going to find that. Why? Because all the science works out
and what are
hormones effectively? In my decentralized thesis, they are ferryboats for light.
That's all they are. And if you look at each one of them, each one of them has a
very specific
absorption and emission spectra. So when you think about the number one thing that
myelin is made out
of, which is cholesterol, most people are shocked to find out that cholesterol has
a biphasic
absorption phenomenon. Shouldn't shock you. Why? Because cholesterol, lipid rafts
change in mammals
between summer and winter. That's the reason why it exists. But you know that all
the hormones
that you just pushed here outside of cholesterol, I should say cortisol, they
actually fundamentally
can come and be crafted from cholesterol. Vitamin D is an example of that. But
people like Alexis know
that we can make hormones when the TCA cycle spins one way, but when it's hypoxic,
there's another
way to make it through succinyl, succinate instead of using acetyl-CoA. That's the
way we used to do
it in different environments. And the point that I make to you when I say this is
you are going to
find because you're building sensors on the skin that check light, you're going to
pick these up
before Alexis will pick it up in her books. Because I know what Alexis has learned
in her books,
because I learned it. And I know what the limitations of that are. What you're
doing now
is you're extending the information that's in those biochemistry books to different
things
where people need to ask those questions. That's the reason why people like Alexis,
people like Jim El-Khalili, people like Nick Lane, people like Roger, are going to
be really
important for a guy like you to get feedback on. Why? Because what you're finding
is really
uncovering a new layer of quantum biology. Yeah. I mean, it was just absolutely
fascinating.
This particular sensor, like I say, measures every three minutes, and it measures
simultaneously
melatonin, cortisol, IL-6, and TNF-alpha. And the interconnections between them
have just
been fascinating to look at because cortisol starts to come up. All of a sudden,
there's a
spike for melatonin. I don't know where it came from, but I know it's there. And
then you walk
into a dark room and turn on the TV, and you can see cortisol spikes coming up and
all this stuff
in time scales on the order of five to 10 minutes. So this transients are going on
on top of the more
circadian type baselines that people are dealing with. And the sweat monitors give
you a really
good gauge of that. And I'm just sort of surprising how fast the body responds to
some of these
changes in stressors. Well, I'm going to tell you, there was a book written that
you probably should
read, written by Fritz Hall, which he's an ophthalmologist. He wrote it in the 40s.
This is a time that we didn't have intraocular lenses. He took the cataracts out.
He actually
measured their urinary hormones and found that they changed immediately. Now this
is back in the
40s. So it's not surprising to me that you're finding this out. But the reason I
mentioned
this to you, this goes back to Alexis's point that she made a half an hour ago, why
guys like me need
photomultipliers that are at the smallest levels. Why? Because the changes that
you're seeing in
this sweat are related to the ultrarheic biophotons that are created. That is the
key to this story.
And when people begin to find out what light's really doing at the submolecular
level and how
it's controlling everything, that to me is when centralized medicine gets put in
its grave.
Yeah, I even pulled an interview from Fritz Popp, I think it was from the 90s or
maybe the late 80s,
and he says outright in the interview that when the biochemists learn that the
metabolites that
are undergoing all these conversions by enzymes need to be stimulated by light
first, everything
is going to change. And so he already had that intimation back, you know, decades
ago.
And that's why I said to Scott earlier why I pushed back so hard on him. I get what
he's doing,
but I want him to be, I'm kind of a, how shall I say, the Pope of people who really
got the story
right early. Like I want to elevate them because history has really buried them.
You know, that's
guys like Popp, guys like Becker, you know, I'd even say John Ott is one of those
guys. I think
what Ott did to me is more impressive than a guy with a PhD. Why? Because he was
just a time-lapse
photographer. He was such a good observer that he picked this up. And it sounds
like here you are as
a guy that's in photonics and optics, and you also are observing what's happening
in nature.
And to me, that's the first step in science. That's the single most important step.
And then
figuring out what the mechanisms are and all that's great. But what do people
really need to do right
now? They need to do what all three of us are doing. Get outside in the sun. I
agree. I agree.
Alexis, can you go to the next slide? I like Jack's input. Yes, sir. So, you know,
during COVID,
I started looking at the effect of sunlight on the virus transmission. And I did a
paper on
seasonality. But there's one quote I think comes in. I don't know. I can't read it
from here,
to be quite honest. I can read it if you want. Yeah, go for it. Okay. So it says,
if we knew what suppressed influenza to summertime levels, that would be a lot more
effective than any of the flu vaccines that we have. That was from Dr. Scott
Dowell.
Yeah. And the point was, is that during the first few months of the pandemic,
there was some really great work out of NIAID that showed the half-life of the
virus in various,
in dark conditions and cold conditions. It was followed up with a test study that
looked at
the virus half-life in sunlight. And it went from one hour to less than 18 seconds.
So we were looking at whether we could use how the environment, and this was tied
in with the
epidemiological studies that showed that 99% of all the transfers of COVID occurred
indoors
versus outdoors. And so what we did, if you go to the next slide, Alexis,
we did some computational fluid dynamic studies, and we were able to show that
sunlight,
how sunlight affect everything, but it turned out the most effective
germicide was the actual, when sunlight comes up every day, it tends to generate a
germicidal level of hydrogen peroxide nozone. And during the day, and then that
drops off,
and then the microbes release nitric oxide. And so it seems to be that nature's
been providing
us with protection. And what we're doing indoors is not only affecting how our body
functions
efficiently, but it's also affecting how the pathogens are being affected.
So absolutely. This is the reason why it just reinforces what I told you earlier,
the guy who was the head of NIAID, approved by Reagan in 1982, who made all the
mistakes in the
AIDS virus, made all the same mistakes in COVID when he told us to go inside. And
he knew better.
There's papers, just as you said, that were out there showing these effects, but
guess what?
You can't create a vaccine under an EUA if you have another chemical or drug that
actually
shows that it's effective. This is the reason why this information was buried.
Yeah, it was frustrating because I tried to get both of them to rerun tests and
expand
the knowledge base, and all of them came back and said they couldn't, it wasn't
part of their scope.
Now you know the reason why. This is the reason why I hope the audience really
understands
what the bigger game is. Why, for the last two years, I've been talking a lot of
politics and
why I've been talking about science and things like that, because it scales right
down to the
health side of things, the decentralized model that I have. Why? Because they don't
want you to
know how powerful sunlight is. Because if you did know, you're going to wind up not
needing a
lot of the centralized institutions for a lot of different things. And I can tell
you, the
childhood vaccine schedule happens to be one of them. Yeah, yeah. Good. Next slide,
Alexis.
So basically, just because I make money based on selling light bulbs, this is our
light bulb.
The black line is what we do. We use a combination of LED plus incandescent and
in the right proportions to mimic what you get when you're out in the shade. It
lets you do
things at about 40 or 50 lumens per watt versus the incandescent at 10 to 15.
Alexis has one.
I have the DC bulbs, two of them actually, I think you gave me. Yeah, I gave you
the DC version.
They're great. And then the last one is just from Roger. It's just showing that as
I think
you're talking about, Jack, is that there was a time where we understood this and
it got shut down.
I totally agree with you from a historical standpoint that they discredited most of
the
work in the area because they wanted to sell more drugs. I think that's pretty self
evident.
Scott, on the top of my medical school hospital, I did my residency. See that
picture you have in
the middle? That was where we put patients. This is in the 1980s, just so you
remember.
Jay, you broke up on me, Jack. Say it again. Middle picture that you have on this
slide,
where I did my residency training, Charity Hospital in New Orleans, we had that
solarium
that we were able to use for patients. So when I tell you that I've known for a
really long time,
and a lot of the doctors I trained with have known, and we know the reason why,
that's the reason why I pushed hard back on you, because some of us know the real
reason why this
stuff's going on. This is the reason why I'm vehemently opposed to some of the
things that
are out there, especially in politics, because I think people need to know that we
have known
about this for a really long time. We need to educate the public on this
information and not
doctors. Why? Doctors are going to continue to get all of their information from
Big Pharma,
where we're going to impact Dr. Scott is going to be when they're out of residency
and they're not
being pounded on by pretty drug reps from Pfizer. And when they start to see their
patients
that have done all the things that they were taught to do in their residency, but
they still
don't get better on the drugs, but yet when they go outside, they magically get
better. That is the
message that I have been pushing hard for 20 years. Well, I totally agree. I
totally agree.
I mean, I hope that we can make a change back. I mean, it's been interesting to see
with this
petition to reverse the rule change that Biden put in, and I'm hopeful that we had
a lot of doctors
and optical people, alighting people that came on board. And so I guess I'm hopeful
that
it'll actually get some traction because that one rule would basically negate my
ability to
provide any near infrared content to the bulbs, which I think is a crime, in my
opinion.
I totally agree with that, but I'm going to tell you that I think the real guys
behind the curtain,
the DOD and DARPA, they're going to be the ones that are pulling the front. Biden
and Obama,
when they came up with this idea, because people forget, 2008 is when this idea
came. It first
started with TVs when Obama got rid of the analog signals and went to the digital
signals. That was
the first step in making sure that every TV would harm you. Then they stepped on
the gas further and
changed all the rules with light bulbs, and it's gotten substantially worse. And
you know that
Obama and Biden, they're not the people that understand this science. You and I
both know that,
but the people that are, are the people at DARPA. And those people, that story
where they learned it
was all the way back to the Manhattan Project. Those are the people of why we have
the problem
that as long as you can provide,
you have to remember that Alexis has been to my house here in El Salvador. She will
tell you.
Say it again. Say it again. You broke up a minute, like for a second.
You've been to my house in El Salvador, and you know that I don't use light bulbs
in my house.
My whole house doesn't even have walls. You're able to go outside when you're
inside. And
the reason I'm hardcore about this is because I have way more distrust than you do
in the powers that are out there. And I want you to understand why do when, when
you hear me say
things on other podcasts and don't say it to you, I want you to understand. It
doesn't mean I don't
support Scott Zimmerman. I'm actually going straight to the key point to get people
back
into the sun. This is the reason why I don't talk shit about a lot of the red light
guys,
a lot of their lights suck if you want to know the truth. But the bottom line is,
is that a
better option than a fucking LED light that these people are working under or a
fluorescent bulb
that people are working on? Yeah, but how much benefit are they really getting?
Probably not as much as they think, or not as much as the marketers are selling
them.
That's for sure. It's always been a hard thing because you know, we've taken a very
hard line
with the idea that the first and foremost is get people outdoors in the sun and try
and convince
them to have what I call good solar hygiene, where they don't go and fry themselves
like some people
want to do once a year, you know, type thing, but actually get a continuous
exposure. But
there are so many areas where I believe that especially in nursing homes and
schools and
prisons, you know, that are having a negative impact on people's health, we ought
to do something
to help if we can. Well, I'm actually so on that note, I'm giving a talk to all of
the superintendents
and principals in New Hampshire in June. They invited me to come teach them about
light so that
they can hopefully revamp their public school system. I mean, I don't know if it's
going to
actually happen, but it's at least a door that's open that maybe it could end up
being like a,
you know, kind of like a beacon for other states to follow ultimately if, you know,
the momentum builds enough. But I mean, yeah, you ought to try and include what
Jack was talking
about the video from a lot. Absolutely. I'm definitely going to include the school
children's video and like before. Yeah, for Sarasota, I think that was one of the
first
things that kind of got me going. And then, you know, it's one of those things that
because
I approach it from the optics standpoint, I have a good friend who's from Ghana.
And so we've
measured transmission characteristics of his skin. And then another friend that's a
redhead and,
you know, he's about as zero as you can get and, you know, measured. And what was
fascinating was
is when you looked at them optically, about the time you get to about 800
nanometers as you're
going out into the longer wavelengths, we all tend to merge together and water
takes over,
melanin drops out and doesn't do anything or doesn't have any absorption. But we
all end up
being the same color in the area where the body seems to have the most activity
going
from an energy process standpoint. So. Yeah, I will tell you that the like I
started this
podcast when I mentioned what I mentioned to you that the story of light outside in
is definitely
fascinating. But I'm going to tell you the story of endogenous light creation from
inside out.
I think is the most fascinating story that I've ever uncovered in in Madison and
Well, I'd actually I'd actually, you know, I spent a lot of time building photon
counting liquid
nitrogen cooled react monochromator systems for measuring very low light levels.
And I find what
you're saying interesting. I'm still just a little skeptical about how far it can
go. And it's kind
of like the reactive oxygen argument. There's always been a question if you have
something that
has such a short half life or is immediately absorbed, you know, how can it be
effective
for longer range? And I think there has to be a conversion either to a phonon or
some kind of
chemical change in order to really affect things at a distance as well. The only
argument I have.
I think a lot of that stuff I can tell you I know for a fact, a lot of that stuff
has been done.
The thing that I would tell you to take a look at because he didn't really talk
about it in his
book, but I'm sure you've read it. You know that the PNN semiconductor that Becker
found in bone
has those two copper atoms that are electrostatically bound. And you know exactly
how that works in an LED. One of the things that Becker talked about in his book
and also in his
papers that he wrote in orthopedics is that bone seems to admit this bread round
light, but he
never took it to the next step with the guy that I'm probably the most pissed off
with
is burrito because burrito is the perfect guy to do this because he's a
biophysicist and he
understood it. And it turns out if you actually look at the atomic oxidation state
of copper,
the answer is right there. The reason we use magnesium in chlorophylls because it's
redox
stable. The reason inside like in zinc SOD cases, which is ROS switching, it's also
redox stable,
but you'll find out that iron, manganese, and copper are not. And the reason why is
it turns
out those electronic transitions are the key answer to the story that you're
looking for. How
do we go from light to oxidation changes to get signaling down the pathway? And
once you begin to
understand that science, then you're going to go straight to 1948 and open up
Claude Shannon's
paper and look at his mathematics of entropy. And you're going to begin to see
something
very interesting. No, I don't totally disagree. I'm just, it's not something I've
spent enough
time to really understand to be quite honest. But I do appreciate the comments and
the input.
The other thing is that one of the neat things that you see when you look at the
structure of the scan in particular, you see this localization of melanin in an
area that has a,
where there's a significant index of refraction difference. And we know that
melanin can make a
solar cell. And it, but optically the variation or the modulation between the
dermis and the
epidermis, those are, that's creating an optical absorber. And I put, it's like, we
do this on
solar cells all the time, but the body's been doing it for millions of years. So I
think it's
just really fascinating how every time you look at something in the body, there is
an optical
take on the whole thing, as well as a chemical or biological take. So Scott, I want
to tell you
about this because this is important. Try to bring this up to you, Berman, but it
just fell on deaf
ears. His father is a, is a condensed matter physicist. And I asked you Berman
after the
podcast, I said, do you know that the people in DARPA and NASA are studying melanin
for sheets?
Why? Because dried melanin forms unbelievable electric currents. It's probably the
best thing
outside of maybe graphene that's out there. And I said, do you want to know
something that's
really interesting? What happens on our surface is very different than what happens
inside. I said,
do you know when you hydrate melanin, it actually dampens the current and it
dampens it to an
incredible degree so that the amount of current that you can pull off dried melanin
is reduced
to one trillionth of one amp of, of current. And I said, do you know, you might be
shocked to find
out that when Becker did his work on bone healing, that I'm sure you've read this,
you know, that was
the same amount of current that de-differentiated red blood cells where it broke
the central dogma
and went back in time and made first met hemoglobinemia, then it made nucleated red
blood
cells, this little current. So the reason I say this to you, Scott, is you said, I
just don't believe
that bio photons could do something like this. I want you to go back and read the
electric body
very, very carefully, since you're a good observer, because I've made this case,
Becker published this
and no one has followed up on it predominantly because DARPA got rid of them. That
small electric
current that's made from hydrated melanin sheets actually is what de-differentiated
red blood cells
in humans to actually regenerate bone. That's been published in the literature
since the 1960s. And
let me tell you something, not one person, not one has ever followed it up. And
that includes
everybody's big hero, Marino. Marino never did goddamn thing with it. And let me
tell you something,
I've never said this publicly. I've always tried to keep my tongue tied about this,
but Marino had a duty to us to do it. And if you want to know the reason why he
didn't do it,
Scott, it's the reason why when Alexis or Cameron Brock brings him on a podcast,
you're allowed to talk about this and nothing else. Why? Because he knows about the
things
that I was trying to explain to you about DARPA, the DOD, the government and all
those things that
they will come for you and they will take your livelihood away. But the reason I
pointed out to
you is that when you really parse that experiment out and you're an optics guy, I
guarantee you
you're going to be stunned at what he found. Okay. Happy to look at it. Yeah. Like
I say, I mean,
I just think that there's such a need for a change and people need to know what
you're
doing out there in sunlight versus what goes on inside a classroom. And there has
to be, I even
did, they asked me what you could do. I said, well, do you have the screen on your
window?
I said, okay, open the window, you know, because I do believe that's what John did
in the Sarasota
school experiment. But you know, like when Alexis said, she's going up to New
Hampshire, realized
New Hampshire has a shitty quantum yield to begin with, then it's geo-engineered.
And then what do
they do? They lock the kids down in a prison because they're afraid they're going
to get shot
up. Well, who's making all these rules? Guess who it is? The government's again. So
they want to
keep these kids inside. Really what they need to do is do what they did when I was
a kid. Let's
go outside in midday for an hour and let's go play dodgeball. Let's go play with a
ball. Let's go do
something just so we can get out of the artificial light. If you did that for
children, I think you
would notice a dramatic improvement in their health, their behavior. I agree. I
agree. And
you know, it needs to be taken into account the differences in their optical
properties as well.
You know, the displacement of... When I was doing the work on seasonality and the
COVID,
I found the amazing, terrifying fact that they said that they were 40 times more
likely to die
of COVID, an African-American versus a Sub-Saharan African. And you know, to me,
that's just the tragedy that needs to be... It's not about that, Scott, on my
Twitter feed,
just so you know. Say what? I had tweets out about that very issue. I was like,
take a look
at how African-Americans are dying in Detroit and New York and look at what's going
on in Africa.
And the only reason I was able to say that in COVID is because one of my friends
was protecting
me from being banned. That was Jack Dorsey. Wow. Just so you know, that was four
and a half years
ago that Uncle Jack was saying that stuff. And if you want to know just how
powerful that was,
that is actually the tweet that got me in front of Bu Kelly. He said, wait a
minute. He goes,
if this is true, he goes, what am I doing with my people? Because most of our
people have brown
skin. I said, I got some bad history. You got 13th North Latitude light. I said,
you need to
get them outside. That's actually what Bu Kelly did right after that. He started to
give people
bags of ivermectin and vitamin D and told them, don't stay inside anymore. Go
outside. This is a
president of a country who completely flipped after hearing a tweet that's out
there about
what you just mentioned. So I'm going to tell you, there are people that don't have
their head
up their ass. The problem is they're few and far between. And that's part of the
reason why
I'm a big believer in places like El Salvador. Because I think that this science
that we're
trying to talk about is actually going to leak out. It may trickle, may not be good
enough for
Scott, for Alexis or Jack, but we're not going to be censored here for telling
people how they
should do their life right and not do it according to the way Big Pharma or the DOD
or DARPA wants
you to do it. Yeah. No, I mean, I can't argue. Like I say, it took me forever to
get published
on some of the stuff I was doing. And I finally gave up and I just do podcasts and
LinkedIn.
For most of the work I do. Kevin McKiernan started a substack and he's been
publishing
on his substack. And he's even had people publishing in Frontiers site his substack
as a reference. So maybe that's something you could look into as well. I mean, he
and Jack
are also trying to build out a more decentralized journal model. So that will also
fix the problem,
of course. I want to tell you something else that I've just kind of said,
basically, because I
didn't want this out publicly, but it's probably important for you to hear. Because
I don't think
you really know what I've been doing. I went back into the hospitals when people
were getting
killed by putting endotracheal tubes in them and keeping them in blue light. And I
got the vials
in different places in the United States and I sent them to Kevin McKiernan so that
he could find
exactly what I thought really was the problem and why these things were happening
and why nobody
wanted you to see the sun, why everybody wanted to get as much oxygen inside of you
as possible.
And I'm saying this to you as an optical guy, because when you heard me in the
beginning of
this podcast talk about the GOE and the stuff that you're working on, I promise you
what I said there
is the single most important thing that you're going to find and why these things
happen.
Oxygen is a real problem with artificial light. Massive problem. And Alexis is, as
at the
intersection, what's in my head and what you're doing yourself, because she knows
that biochemistry
inside and out. The only difference is she doesn't really understand
normoxia versus hypoxia and then plugging it into the evolutionary history because
that's a big deal.
And the ambient light that we live in is the biggest story never told. So anybody
who tells
that story will always get my stamp of approval. Sounds cool. I actually appreciate
it a lot, Jack.
I had a good time. Yeah, this is fun. I also think that, I mean, we don't have to
get into it,
but I'm sure that it's going to play out that there's a strong link between bio-
photon production
and the light that you're exposed to from the outside. I'm sure they're
influencing.
I got news too. There's already data. If you want to know the truth, Alexis, you
can probably look
into this. The other day, Nick Jahomes, when I did the podcast with him about
hemoglobin,
and I told him all the things about hemoglobin, how it relates directly to the GOE.
And remember,
he's an evolutionary biologist, a biochemist with a PhD. He's like, Jack, you just
taught me right
there. He goes, I had no idea how hemoglobin, oxygen, and nitric oxide really
interact with
ATP. And I said, when you understand this, then let's take the second level.
Because I gave him
a little clue. I said, have you ever wondered why the intermonocondrial membrane
doesn't have DHA
on it, but it uses molybdenum and manganese. And you have SODs. And what are the
SODs all linked
to? They're linked to these atoms that actually have this really interesting
oxidation state.
And he goes, why are you telling me this? I said, because now that you understand
how hemoglobin
works, I want you to begin to understand this next story. Because why is this next
story a big one?
It's actually how the gut operates. Remember, that gut is filled with a ton of
prokaryotes. And you
know, as a PhD, that that gut, especially if we're going to talk to our
gastroenterologist friend
on your podcast, this story is going to be big because you know what top showed in
prokaryotes.
So they make a ton of light. And guess what happens? The prokaryotic spectrum is
altered
by these redox sensitive atoms, which gets right back to what I said to Scott in
the beginning
about why you can never create an artificial light that mimics what the sun does.
It turns out light
is capable of changing the oxidation state of atoms by itself. And that is the
story
of truly understanding what bio photons are doing. So a guy on, I believe it was
Martin Picard's
Twitter feed, same as Felix Shokobin, just published a really interesting paper
about how
myelin and sleep are linked. Meaning the more myelination you have, the more sleep
you get
from an evolutionary perspective. And I was very provocative with him. And I said,
do you know the
reason why that's the case? I said, you know, that things are myelinated or white.
And I said, what
do you know about light and semi conduction with the color white and black? I
remember this guy's
a biophysicist. He's not a dumbass. And he didn't realize where I was taking this.
And I was like,
I got newsfeed, my friend. Myelin is also tied to the story of hypoxia and
pervarians. Why?
You know this as a PhD. In the stomach, all we have, the only bacteria we have is
helicobacter.
Those are facultative arrows. What does that mean? They make huge ROS. So what does
that mean? The
biophotons are going to make are ultra-weak UV, which is exactly what Pop found,
right? Down in
the colon where it's 10 to the 14th prokaryotes. It's fermentation. Guess what they
make? 400 to 800.
Completely different. And you want to hear the interesting thing. You know, our
friend Dr. Hazen,
she was talking, I wouldn't say shit, but she was talking to people about using
methylene
blue poorly and that it destroys bifidobacteria. And she's right. But she doesn't
realize why that
actually may be a benefit in certain people who have their gut microbiome wide open
because of
Alan Fry's work. You have to clear the deck to get a better biophoton sampling. And
it turns out,
each individual prokaryote in our gut emits a different frequency. And it turns out
that
frequency on that filament, that tube, that explains the reason why we have a VDR
receptor
in our gut, because it makes optically from what Scott said earlier, absolutely no
sense from an
evolutionary perspective of why that's there. And I told Nick, the story is what's
going on
in those bugs and how those bugs are affected and what they're doing. Because guess
what happens?
Helicobacter, and we know this from first principles, from Barry Marshall's Nobel
Prize.
We know that if you have too much helicobacter in your stomach, you are going to
get not only
an ulcer, but you're going to get cancer if it doesn't get changed. We all know
today
that that is a pre-malignant condition. You know what we don't know? Why? And that
gets to the point
that I was trying to make to Scott earlier. The why is really what public health
aids.
And then here's the flip side of the story. Everybody knows the story about colon
cancer,
but nobody seems to realize that the enteric plexus down in your colon is un-
milding.
Think about that for a minute, Alexis, what I'm saying about biophoton. Isn't that
the spider on
the mirror story? That the story of ultra-weak biophoton creation and the
myelination is
completely yoked to hypoxia in that part. What happens if you change the ROS
signaling? Guess
what? It changes the biophoton emission. When you change the biophoton emission,
what do you
think happens to the tissue adjacent to it? What's the name of Roland Van Wick's
book?
Light Scopes Life, something like this. There you go. It turns out the way in which
light
scopes our life is that's my edge, but I'm very interested. And the thing is,
I believe that people can learn this information. And I don't have any doubt. And I
think you're
probably the best person to talk to about this. When you have PhD biophysicists and
PhDs from
Princeton don't know these basics and that people tell me it's not published. Oh,
it's published.
You know what the problem is? No one's putting the story together. That's the real
problem.
I had another question. So one of the things that we've seen in some of the optics
characterization is that the highest density of photons occur in the infrared
region between
about 1200 and about 3000 nanometers. And that's also been shown to be the region
that are the
wavelengths that generate high levels of hydrogen peroxide in the outer skin. And
then if you look
at the other side of the spectrum and you're looking at vitamin D production,
there's been
some really great studies that have shown that the region of the melanin has been
oxidized in
the region of the 50 microns that the UVB is absorbed. But the only way to do that,
you can't do that with photons. It has to be a photochemical. So the argument is
that
the hydrogen peroxide generated in the outer 50 microns in the infrared is actually
making it so we are more efficient at generating cracking cholesterol in the UVB.
Do you have a comment on it, Jack? Yeah. What's the number one thing you're
forgetting,
my friend Scott? What is the antidote biologically for hydrogen peroxide? Do you
know?
It's a heme-based protein. No. You know what it is? Catalase. You got it. Catalase
is the answer,
my friend. And it turns out that you'll probably be shocked to hear this because
it's a heme-based
protein. You know what that means. That means that red light is important to it and
its function.
And the hydrogen peroxide story, the way it's quenched is important. A lot of
people don't
know this, but catalase is probably more prominent in our blood than anywhere else.
In fact, if you
take a piece of liver and put it into a Coke bottle and pour hydrogen peroxide into
it,
the bottle will take off like a rocket. And the reason why that's important is
catalase is the fastest enzyme catalyst that we know in the human body. So it's
designed to work
at levels that we can't even fathom. So you mentioned something earlier in the
podcast,
like, Jack, the timescales don't fit. Well, they do when you understand what
catalase
is effectively doing the hydrogen peroxide. And then you start thinking about,
okay,
let's talk about superoxide. That's where the SOD chemicals that I mentioned to you
earlier come in.
That's where zinc, copper, and manganese are huge. Why? Because we all have those.
And it turns out
they're in different places in the body. That means they do different things. So
I'll give
you just a, for example, when you have a copper SOD, it's actually more reactive
and creates a
different biophoton emission. Zinc is very similar to chlorophyll, meaning that
magnesium is redox
stable. So it doesn't change. So, you know, as a physicist, or I should say an
optics guy,
you ever seen when people show on Twitter, like when you have fertilization come
through
and there's light emitted when the sperm and egg come together, zinc is the dopant
that allows that
to happen. Here's the other one. When you see bubbles that burst and you see a
thing of light
that gets released, you know that zinc is also tied there. Why? Because it emits
the light. It
doesn't keep it in. Turns out copper and manganese actually keep it within the
system so you can't
see it. And this is one of the things that I try to be a little bit provocative
with you about
Becker in the PNN semiconductor and those two electrostatic copper atoms in there.
The reason
that orthopedic surgeons don't see the brown red light at the time of surgery is
because of those
copper atoms. What is it doing? It's not only absorbing it, but they're readmitting
it in
different parts of the system. So what Scott asked me about is about the infrared.
We know that the
biggest chromophore in the body is water, especially from 600 to 3100, but that
ain't the only one.
Turns out that heme proteins all are red light chromophores, every single one of
them. And when
you consider a magnetochemical, which is what nitric oxide is, think about
Alexis yourself. You know this. What does nitric oxide do to hemoglobin, which is
another heme
protein? It binds to it. It uses the oxygen binding capacity. And what else does it
do? It
stops ATP production. In the mitochondria. Think about that for a minute. That
tells you that
hemoglobin had to evolve in a variable oxygen environment, which goes to what I'm
trying to
get Scott to understand that ROS is not what he thinks. ROS is another switch on
the equalizer
that can be dialed up and dialed down. And why is biology doing it? To change the
UPE spectrum.
It needs to use it in a certain way. And there's ways to quench it. And there's
ways to
propagate it or assimilate it into the system. And that is where the science needs
to head.
And believe it or not, is there a lot of things published on this science that
people are unaware
of? Well, that goes to the Twitter feed that I just told you about Felix Shulkman.
He's a PhD
who works with this big lady in Canada who's working with Michael Levin. Remember
what
Michael Levin's claim to fame is? And I know you don't have a lot of love for him
like I don't.
He's the bioelectric guru, right? And what did Andrew Moreno say to Cameron Borg on
his podcast?
He goes, I talked to Michael Levin before he started his career. And I warned him
that his
mentor Jaffe, who's a biochemist that blocked all of Becker's work, would hamper
him. What's my thesis?
Photobioelectric synthesis. Why won't Levin ever get to where Scott needs Levin to
go?
Because DARPA fuels his research. Tell Scott what Michael Levin told Alexis on her
podcast,
that EMFs play no role in biology. You know why he said that, Alexis? Because if it
did,
you would have to go where I'm trying to drag Scott, where I'm trying to drag him.
You're going to find out that this ultra peak biophoton story is the biggest story
in the world.
I think even the research around like UPE shows that in the mitochondria, the
reactive oxygen
and nitrogen species are a big producer of light. If you look at Rowland Van Wyk's
book, he said,
you can't create biophotons without oxygen there. And people have said to me after
the Nick Jones
podcast, like, Jen, what happens if we're in the GOE and say we're thinking about
the evolutionary
history? We've got 10 to the fourth prokaryotes. It's got less than 1% oxygen. It
still is created.
Why? Because guess what? Proteins, which is exactly what I try to get Scott to
understand.
Catalase can do it. So can hemoglobin. Blood itself that has no mitochondria.
Remember,
it's the only cell in humans that has no mitochondria. There's papers out there
that show
from Russia that blood alone can actually make ROS signal. And it can do it making
its own UPE
spectra. And we know what that spectra is. It can go anywhere between 200 and 700
nanometer light,
and it's tunable by what it interacts. And people in biology just don't understand
that when light hits in a metal atom, it can change the oxidation state. It doesn't
do it
for magnesium. It doesn't do it for the state. But all the other transition metals,
it doesn't.
That is the reason why all of eukaryotes are specialists in iron. Okay? We're
specialists in
copper. We're specialists in molybdenum. We're specialists in magnesium. Because
what are we
doing? We're using light to propagate the light signals from bio photons within the
system. And
in every system, it doesn't work the same. Turns out when the atom changes, the
oxidation state
changes, the story for biology changes. But what's ultimately the issue? What's the
signal,
the first principle thinking signal that I want to really stick to Scott?
Everything has an
absorption and emission. When I sat down with Ray Pete and showed him that, I said,
explain this to me. He just looked at me with glass eyes. And I said, dude, before
I'm done,
you're going to find out that everything you fucking believe in biochemistry is the
biggest
fucking lie ever propagated on the planet. And I said, I'm telling you this story
before you're
dead. But I'm going to watch and see what you do with it. Because I had this exact
same discussion
back in the day. And he said to me, because there's a reason I don't have a PhD
Jack,
because I'm an MD. I look at my patients. And I'm like, how can a plant heal itself
with a DC
electric current? And yet, I'm able to heal a nine year old's finger completely.
And remember,
in his book, Alexis, this is for you. There's no discussion about the diet for
salamanders,
for frogs, or for the nine year old kid whose finger was amputated all the way down
here,
that include bone, muscle, nerve, and skin completely regenerated. That tells you
from
first principles, from things published in the literature, there's a lot more fat
on the bone.
And when I talked to Becker about bio photons, he goes, man, he goes, I wish I
would have met
you in the 1960s. Then I told him, I said, just so you know, the guy that was
working on this was
active in the 1960s. Wow. They kept you guys away from each other, so that you
would never
put the story together. And I will tell you, single best part of Cameron Borg's
podcast with Merino was what Merino said to Cameron. He said, I warned Levin. And
now,
anybody that interviews Merino, before you do a podcast with him, he gives you,
it's like
talking to a bowling alley. He blows up the bumpers so that the ball doesn't go in
the gutter,
but he limits the discussion because he does not want to talk about what Scott
doesn't believe is
real. That the DOD and the DARPA guys, anything that comes down to light and
electromagnetism,
they are going to shut down. And that's the truth. That's the reason why we all
have to go direct to
the public with this story. Why? Because it's exactly what I try to uncover with
Cali Means.
All parents, all humans can do what all three of us are doing right now. We can not
eat the
processed food. We cannot eat the fruit loops. We can stay away from red dye number
seven.
They can even stay away from light bulbs. But you must realize that what we're
doing right now
outside is the single biggest thing in the story to life. And the only way I'm
going to convince
people to stay out as long as I can is to make them understand how incredibly
important this story is
in biology and how it really works. Why? Because when you find out how it works,
you're going to
sit back in your chair with a glass of wine and go, it's fucking incredible what
nature, evolution,
or God, whoever you want to believe, put inside of us. It's spectacular. It's the
best story ever.
It's the story I love talking about, but I don't want people to learn the sliver,
the sliver,
the half-truth always leads to the full lie. And we have been lied to long enough.
Well, I totally agree with your last statements. I do agree with that.
I'm still trying to struggle to get my mind around certain things. But one of the
things,
though, I would like your opinion real quick is that when we were looking at the
seasonality
effects and trying to show all-cause mortality and all those kinds of things, it
seems very clear
that sunlight plays such a huge role in this whole thing. And one of the things I
came away from the
computational fluid dynamics studies is that the transmission characteristics of a
virus to another
person six feet away occurs in seconds. And while the reactive oxygen species
that's in the air we breathe is fairly effective, we couldn't get to the point to
show that we were
matching up with the data. So I came to the conclusion that the body doesn't just
depend
on nature to do it. It also has its own defense system beyond what I think is out
there associated
with this hydrogen peroxide buildup in the skin and forming a barrier. I'm going to
tell you
that that actually is, we are running the biggest light show that you could ever
imagine. And when,
like I said, when you learn about, I think the cool thing is you now have a book.
When I started
doing this 20 years ago, I couldn't direct people to all the papers that I had to
translate from
Japanese and fucking Russian. Now you can buy Roland van Wick's book that goes
through the 125
years of all that data. The cool part is, and this is truly the cool part, the
people that I'm
interacting with now in Alexis's world, like Martin Picard, Michael Levin, they're
beginning
to really pay attention to what I'm saying. Why? Because I'm taking what they're
doing now and
extending it way past. And I'm doing to them what I just did to you in this
podcast. I'm saying you
don't know what's published because you don't read the fucking literature that you
should read
because it's out there. The problem is when you read it and then you connect the
dots and you go,
oh my God, this now makes sense. Because remember the last thing that a researcher
wants to have happen is to bite the hand that feeds it. That's what Michael Levin's
big problem
is right now. He's now at the point where he can't go really where he needs to go.
But guess what?
The other people that aren't linked to Michael's problem can go there. In fact,
Alexis is one of
those people. This guy, Nick Jaccomes, he's another one. My goal is to infect so
many of these PhDs
so that they start going, well, no one's ever been able to explain to me what
Scott, what you're
saying. How does an ultra-weak biophoton extend quorum sensing between us and that
tree, us and
a virus, us and a microbe? And the best way to do that that I know of is to stick
from first
principles to show you what prokaryotes do in your colon and in your gut and then
show you
what's really happening out here in nature when a bee goes and interacts with the
UV biophotons
created by a flower. And then you sit back and go, Jesus Christ, John Ott was
really right. He just
didn't have the tools to figure this out. And I can promise you the next tool that
we need
is the advance that Fritz Popp made. When he put everything in photomultipliers and
saw that
everything emits light, now the next thing guys like me need, and probably it's
going to be Alexis
because I'll be dead, we're going to need somebody to make photomultipliers that we
can put inside
wires, kind of like optical tweezers. And you know what those are. We need some
type of optical
tweezer to tell Alexis what happens when she uses Scott Zimmerman's bulb that he
created.
What's the change between sunlight, Scott's bulb and say Biden's LED? And then
you're going to have
people like, I don't know, some of my MD members that are way younger than me say,
okay, now this
makes sense based on what Jack said in, you know, 1998, because that explains the
reason why
the osteoporosis that we're getting on earth today is related to those two copper
atoms falling off
and the PNN semiconductor don't work. There's no light transmission anymore in the
system.
That's not the osteoporosis that Alexis and Jack and, you know, Mike Twyneman
weren't learned
about in medical school. Why? Because it was about Wolf's Law, which is total
fucking bullshit.
You know, it's like a half truth that Big Pharma uses to sell osteoporosis
medicines.
Hmm. Well, you know, like I say, I really appreciate it and I'd like to continue
having
our conversation sometime. But, you know, I'm just, I guess I'm still the optimist
that I believe that,
you know, having gone through what we've gone through with the COVID and slowly it
seems to
be leaking out that there were alternatives that weren't brought up. That people
shouldn't be being
inside, that they should be outside in sunlight. And I understand that the data is
out there and
I feel like I generated some of the data that that's useful. But because honestly,
nobody had
done the optics of where the photons were going and how then you tied it in with
the electron spin
residency, resonance data from Zostro, where we could say, okay, now this photon is
generating
X number of reactive oxygen species and in a three dimensional situation. And you
start looking at
and you say, the body's got a lot of defenses we didn't even think about. And
that's where,
you know, maybe the biophotons are the orchestrator of that. But,
I'm going to tell you, biology isn't a fundamental science. What you just said
proved my point that I've been making for 20 years, that when we're all said and
done,
it's going to come down to, we are using the most sophisticated physics inside of
cells that anybody
can imagine. And that is the truth. Biology is not a fundamental science, but I'm
going to tell
you biophysics is. And it turns out the biophysics going on in us is on the low
end. We're not doing
this stuff. We're not talking, I'm not trying to tell people that we're nuclear
reactors,
that we're doing the stuff that is on the high end in CERN. But what's happening on
the lowest end
is the most amazing story ever. Why? Because our reality, everything that's around
us, the trees
behind you, the trees behind Alexis, the trees behind me, this shit's happening
right now as
light hits chlorophyll and slows down. That's the story. That is the story I want
everybody focused
in on. And it's important. And it's really important. It's important for people to
get,
because if they don't get it, they're going to continue to get sold bullshit from
marketers.
And that's the problem. That's the reason why the science that, you know, I used to
hold,
you know, at, you know, a godlike level, I reject. That's the reason why I told the
things I said to
Alexis, that Alexis, the more you go down this rabbit hole, the more anger you're
going to get,
because you're going to realize how the science was stolen from us.
Yeah, well, I can say I'm a positive person.
I am too. But at the same time, I'm also, you know, pissed off that basically I
spent
six years at Princeton doing research. It didn't actually mean very much at all.
And
it could have been very impactful if I had known what I know now, of course, and
had the tools to
be able to execute on it. But, you know, it's all just a part of our learning
experience, right? And
we can only do the best of what we got at the time. And so I'm excited for the
future.
Kevin said, Kevin McKiernan, he said, the reason he dropped out of the PhD thing is
because he
realized that the return on equity of really sticking with the PhD was not going to
move the
needle for people out there. And if you really think about, you know, this point,
because I think
this is a big point for Scott to consider, that we all want to move the needle for
public health.
I don't think anybody who's watching this is going to come away saying, no, these
people don't care.
They really care. It's just that they have a different viewpoint on how things are
going.
We spend $4 trillion a year on health, and we are the fucking sickest group of
motherfuckers on the
planet. So guess what that means? Means that how we're looking at the problem is
the problem.
And we had all hopes that Nicole and Bobby were going to change that. And I mean,
look, since
December, I have not been very kind to Bobby and I'm not planning on getting any
kinder
because I don't think he's doing the things that need to be done. And the point
that I try to make
is you need to know who your enemy is. It's all well and good to be optimistic,
but don't let your optimism ruin the reality of the situation. Why? Because
I'm going to tell you this, Scott, at least in the United States, you have 360
million people
that are relying on your wisdom. And out of that 360 million people, there may be
only 80 million
that get it. And out of that 80 million, there may only be 250,000 savages that
really are going to
change the world. And if you want to know the truth, those are the people that I
focus on.
I'm not interested in the people that go to the dermatologist and say, well, the
dermatologist
told me the sun's bad. Therefore, you know, I'm going to slap that shit on me and
wear the
sunglasses. That's why I said to you, what I said to you in the first 15 or 20
minutes of this
podcast, I don't give a shit about the people that buy the party line. Why? Because
I already
know the data is out there. The problem is they're never going to get it from the
dermatologist.
Yeah. Yeah, it is interesting. I mean, as strange as it may sound, we're the only
screw-based light bulb manufacturer in the United States. And we build them here,
and it costs a little bloody fortune to make them in some ways compared to other
places.
But they're even trying to shut us down by putting these stupid rules in place
with these rule changes. Scott, come on down. I can set you up an appointment with
the administration.
I got news for you. I'm not kidding you either. You can come on down anytime you
want,
because this is a political sphere where people understand how important light is.
Now,
unfortunately for you, I have pushed the sun in front of the bulbs. But I will tell
you this,
in El Salvador, it's even worse than what it is in the States. Why? This light back
here,
right by my house, if I could shoot it out and get away with it, I'd go with it. So
instead,
I have this massive bamboo plant that blocks it every night from my house. So I
have to do things
to offset that. The real problem Bukele has, and he said this to me probably a year
ago,
he goes, Jack, I'm building all these brand new roads. He goes, I even went to
China. He goes,
I went to the United States. Nobody has the bulbs that I can put, the amber red
bulbs for the
streets. He goes, then I went to China. He goes, they don't make them either. He
can't get them.
Well, somebody could fill that market need, and that would be a fortune to be made
if you could
fill that market need. Not only that, Scott, I would tell you with the amount of
tourism that
Bukele's getting now, I mean, especially all the gringos coming out from the United
States,
because of Bitcoin and everything else. When people see those lights, and they know
that you're,
I bet you Bukele would let you put your goddamn company name on every lamp post
that's down in
El Salvador and say, look, if you want these, you can get them from us. But to be
honest with you,
he probably wants you to come there. And he would probably be the number one
exporter in the world
of these light bulbs for you. Why? Because he knows how incredibly important the
light is. He's seen
it in his own people. I mean, he saw 60 million worth of vaccine injuries that
actually we're
treating these people now by putting it in the light. And I'm teaching people how
the light
overcomes the lipid nanoparticles and the spike protein. You got McCullough in the
United States
telling people about nanokinase and this and that. It's total bullshit. It doesn't
work.
That's the reason why you go on Twitter every day. You see people, their cognitive
abilities.
That slide that you showed earlier, that's the answer for them, Scott.
Yeah. Well, that was one of the reasons when I looked at what they were doing with
the
nanoparticles in the vaccines, I said, these things are going everywhere. Because I
spent
10 years doing nanoparticle research. And one of the cardinal rules is once you go
nano,
it goes everywhere. And I know they were trying to increase the efficacy, but they
never
looked at the safety of the platform, in my opinion.
They did that also by design, because remember, they're trying to taper the Ponzi
scheme.
I know you as an optimist don't believe that. But me as a guy based in reality,
I understand absolutely why they're doing what they're doing.
Well, I think it's unfortunate. But that's a whole separate debate. But anyway.
Well, this was fun. We've gone two and a half hours. Is there anything else that
needs to be
flushed out? I mean, we can do it again sometime as well.
I think the interesting flush out is going to happen from this one, Alexis, will be
when you
get, when you're the moderator, between me and Dr. Hazen, and she begins to
understand
between me and Dr. Hazen, and she begins to understand the bio photon thing.
I think when Scott watches that, and he watches back this, and he reads Roland Van
Wyk's book,
he's going to go, wait a minute, I got something. Anybody like him that's come up
with the products
that he's come up with, that tells me that he's an observer, a thinker, and someone
who we need
polluting other young minds to go in? Why? Because we do need more. We need more
tools.
I agree. I agree. You know, it started out with just looking at the optics of the
body,
and the more I dig, the more I find these biological processes that I honestly
didn't
have a clue about. I don't disagree that you can generate photons inside the body
by any of the
processes you're talking about. In fact, I think it's actually mandated. But how
that then gets
to the two, it's like I say, I run into the same problem. How do I get from, you
know, reactive
oxygen species with a half-life of nanosecond to something that is useful for the
body on a
time scale of milliseconds? And that's going to be, we're not working on that. If I
told you
where the level is, atto and femto seconds. That's the scale that I'm at.
Well, you know, like I say, I'm open to anything as far as, and I will read the
book and I will
listen in. But I do appreciate all the comments. I think you'll enjoy it because I
think it's the
next generation. Do I think we need you on the generation you're at now to continue
to build
the products? Yes. Do I think you need to keep lighting the fires about, hey guys,
the PBM guys,
they don't have all the story, right? Yes. I can't say that just like I don't go
after Wim Hof
because I don't have a lot of tools in my toolbox for people outside of the sun.
And that's the
reason I'm at the 13 North latitude. Why? Anybody who knows me, where you see me
sitting now is
where I am all the time outside. No, I mean, I totally agree with you. It's just
hard at higher
latitudes. We actually have a little enclosure that I got together so we could get
out in the sun
during the winter. And it's amazing how much it changes. I'll tell you something
else you
should get interested in because Ott did it and I'll put the idea in your head. He
came up with
the plastic that allowed UV and IR to go through, and he built it specifically for
greenhouses
because he'd like to take all those time-lapse photography things. And he had a
hard time when
he lived at high latitude. Do you know that that's the reason why he moved to
Sarasota?
A lot of people don't know that. No, I didn't know that. Yeah. He went from a high
latitude
to Sarasota so that he could do the things for, what's his name? Walt Disney that
he did in early
70s and down there. And then he started to come up with different windows and
lights.
I think that would be a natural extension of your light bulb issue, but I do think
you need to come
and visit El Salvador because you'll get, exhaust all your commercial opportunities
that you have
in the United States. But I think this is so important that for public health,
as crazy as this is going to sound, what you potentially could provide mankind is
more
effective than anything that Dr. Fauci could. Now we're going to get in a lot of
trouble.
Well, it is amazing because one of the things I found is that the DOE set up these
standards
for light bulbs where they removed all the near infrared content and mostly UV
content.
But they also, at the state and local level, we've mandated the use of low-E glass,
which blocks the near infrared. Every turn, being blocked. That's why I'm trying to
tell you, Scott,
instead of being optimistic, I think in maybe a year or two, you're going to be on
Uncle Jack's
side. You're going to realize, there's a game going on.
Yeah, you may be right. You may be right. But I actually, you know,
had a good time having the conversation. I appreciate it greatly.
No problem.
Yeah, this was really fun. Thank you both. Go enjoy some sun.
It used to be where you get to go back and forth.
Oh, yeah. I don't know. Where did we switch over where you had to be so you
couldn't have
a good song argument back and forth? I don't understand.
Jason, that changed about 25, 30 years ago. Even when I go to my neurosurgery
meetings now,
when that guy's on the stage and he knows he's absolutely full of shit, nobody will
go up to the
podium and say it. Why? Because they'll slap a professional conduct issue on you. I
mean,
you guys are seeing what's going on with Mary Talley Bowden. They're trying to take
her license
away for saying what? How about we just use ivermectin, you know, because it's been
successful. Oh, no, no, no, no. We can't say that. Let me just tell you something.
What's happened
in the last 30 years in science, really, if you want to know the big undertow to
this whole podcast,
that's really the big story. Like, we're not allowed to discuss the areas that
really disagree
and why we disagree. We're not allowed to show the papers. One of the reasons why I
love Twitter so
much is I get to interact with guys like Levin, guys like Folkman, guys like in the
biophysics
community and say, look, you guys are getting paid millions of dollars for your
grants,
and you keep focusing on the wrong thing. So what do I do? I actually embarrassed
the fuck out of
them on Twitter. I do it all the time. And I'm doing that for a reason. People
think it's because
I'm an asshole. I'm really not an asshole. What I'm really pissed off about is that
nobody will
listen to the other side of the argument when, like, for example, you say to a guy,
a lady like
Dr. Hazen, explain to me as a gastroenterologist, why you have a vitamin D receptor
in your colon.
And, you know, because you're sticking that black snake up people's asses all the
time.
You think that it would come down to asking that question sometimes, huh? Like, why
are you doing
that to screen for colon cancer? Might the reason that you have a vitamin D
receptor in
your colon be tied to the reason why everybody's getting colon cancer? Might that
be a better
question to ask? It's also, it always pisses me off that, like, gastroenterologists
will use
colonoscopies as a routine checkup. Meanwhile, you're destroying the microbial life
in the colon
every single time you prep somebody for that procedure. So it's like, what are we
actually
doing there? And, you know, what the implications are, of course, from the light
perspective is huge.
Don Alexis, here's another one for you. I just want to remind you, because I'm now
trying to punch
Scott pretty hard. Remember who Andrew Wakefield was? He was a gastroenterologist
from the UK
who studied the mucosa of kids with autism, and he found some problems. You know
what they did to him?
They turned him into a filmmaker. That's right.
So you and I are clear about what's really going on here. Like, if you get too
close to the truth,
my friend, let's put it this way. It's like putting a moth next to a UV light.
Well, I don't disagree. And I want to say one thing. I mean,
I have different opinion of you going on. And I appreciate the fact that we can
have an open
and honest conversation, you know, without me being totally berated for a change.
I feel like Jack's pretty reasonable.
No, no, I mean, and I do see a genuine need or genuine want to try and get
information out.
And that's always been my pet peeve. There was nothing more frustrating than to see
all the
people dying during COVID and not even look and see whether or not there were some
other
environmental tricks that we could do to reduce the possibility. I even to the
point that I
mapped out the death rates. And for the first time, during the first part of COVID,
we had
actually an air conditioning bump. If you look at the data, you'll see that Texas,
Arizona, Florida
had an increase in deaths from COVID. Italy, during the same time period, and all
the Europeans
where they didn't have air conditioning were exactly the opposite. They didn't show
the peak.
So, I mean, if there ever was data that showed that air conditioning and removing
the reactive
oxygen species that we breathe and the sunlight that we get, you know, that data is
there.
And it's very frustrating when you can't get people to realize that a simple thing
like
opening a window or not using air conditioning during some particular timeframe
gives them a
benefit. I mean, you know, I can feel Jack's frustration. That's the reason why I
had to
put most of my information behind a paywall. A paywall is only five bucks a month,
but guess what?
If I didn't do that, I'd be facing the same thing that Mary Talley-Bounds faces
right now, but
threatening to take her license. And that's just from this simple little idea.
And then backing it up with data. I want to know why doctors don't know about it.
You just
hit on it, my friend. Guess what? The powers that be are keeping this information
away from the
people that are on the front lines. Let me tell you something. When I went back in
to the hospitals
40 years ago and decided to take trauma, I don't think every single one of my
members was like,
what in the fuck is he doing? They had no earthly idea. Well, guess what? They just
found out the
story in the last four blocks. I just found out it was all tied to hemoglobin, the
UPEs,
how methylene blue works, what really goes on with oxygen, how people really die
from ARDS.
Guess what? It's a story that the Department of Defense doesn't want doctors to
know
because if you knew it, then you'd realize that there's no coming around.
Yeah. Well, I do agree that unfortunately there's not an instantaneous effect that
everybody can go,
oh, it's a long-term effect. And that's the unfortunate part of the whole argument.
That's part of the reason why, what's his name, Logan, with the prosperity thing,
what did I tell him in the last podcast I did with him? I said, you want to teach
people
about how this works, go get two plants, but one in fake light and one in sunlight,
you'll know within two weeks. So I would tell people who listen to this podcast,
I disagree with Scott, we can find out, go try to throw coconuts in New Hampshire
and tell me how
well that goes. Well, I think that some of that data is starting to come out of
Glenn's work.
He's starting to show very quick changes. We're actually comparing incandescent and
LEDs and
showing really quick negative effects on our ability to discern color contrast and
other things.
So I think more and more is coming out at some point. As much as we possibly can,
we need more
people going into this field to blow the narratives up that we can't do things to
help ourselves
without drugs, supplements, or food. Light trumps all of those things at a
fundamental level.
That is, if I could say that one thing come out of this podcast, I would love that
to be the thing
that light trumps, because it's always, always low on the totem pole compared to
everything else.
Scott, not for me and not for my tribe. Anybody who follows me know that's always
been the case
for 20 years. I agree. I agree. I agree, Jack. Everybody else is absolutely aloof,
but we're
trying to change that. Hopefully podcasts like this, you can sit down with your
grandmother and
put it on and your grandma is going to turn around and say, Jack's right. I know
the sun's good,
but we don't go in the sun anymore. Yeah. Grandma knows. Grandma just doesn't talk
much.
Well, that's why I thought it was so fascinating when I was like,
grandma's used to tell, I knew some older ladies that they wouldn't use air
conditioning
and it turns out that they were actually right. I remember when my grandmother told
me in 1960s,
don't sit too close to the Magnavox TV because you're going to get X-rays.
And I distinctly remember my mother saying your grandma was crazy. And guess what?
I think I was
like seven years old. And I found out that grandma wasn't crazy because of a
meeting that I had
in a museum of natural history in New York. And I came home and told my mother, I
said,
you need to go call grandma up and apologize to her. And I actually made my mother
do that.
So you've been this way for a long time. I just, I would just tell you that I'm,
I'm like that kid that was the most curious kid ever. Like I did not take anybody's
word for
anything until I examined it for myself. And then that's how I gained trust in the
system.
Like when people, like I remember when I was in third grade going to religious
class and the
nuns tried to sell me the bullshit, you know, that the earth was only 6,000 years
old. I said,
you know, last week I was with Ms. Genazi in the museum of natural history. And I
saw a T-Rex.
It's 65 million years old. Square that. Do you know, Scott, that they called my
mother in
to the Catholic religious instruction place. And my mother asked the nun, she goes,
why did you call
me in? She goes, did you hear what he said? And she goes, yeah. She goes, do you
have something
to refute it? Well, I would just tell you that I think the people that are out
there out of the
360 million people, the people that think like that, those are my savages. That's
my target
audience. I, I, I, unlike you, Scott, I know that there's a lot of people out there
that the stuff
that we're talking about is too much over their head. They're too interested in Joe
Rogan,
Starbucks and Netflix to give two fucks about what we're talking about. But let me
tell you
something. When they come down with a GBM or they get myopia or they get glaucoma,
I got news here,
they're going to fucking care about your light bulbs then. And they're going to
care about
sunlight and they're going to care about what Alexis podcasts are doing and what
she's doing.
Now, why? Because then it's going to matter to their life and the smart people,
the real smart ones, they're going to play the prevent defense. I'm going to do
this stuff. So
I don't have to go to the sausage grinder. Yeah. Well, I do believe that. I do
believe that
the long-term effects and the cost, I mean, that was one of the things that was
most frustrating
about the DOE petition for me is, is that I knew that they had never run any tests
to say that
there was okay to do this. They just were looking and they even admitted they
didn't use any cost
analysis or any penalty for health. So all the cost numbers for saving energy with
light bulbs
assume that you were just as healthy before as you are after. And that's just not
true.
I'm going to tell you that that information they did know it was in the MK Ultra
files.
Patrick Elms destroyed them in 1973. Unfortunately, Richard Holmes didn't realize
that there was a whole nother box and file cabinet in the basement of charity
hospital
that he didn't get to, that I was fortunate to read. And then all that information
from
Washington, DC got transferred to SRI, Stanford research Institute. And then it was
transferred
to the brain health initiative. That's guess where it's based? South America and
central America.
That's where it is now. They know they gave you deniable plausibility, my friend.
And I'm going
to tell you the last bit that I'll mention to you about this. The reason they don't
know anything
about non-NATVMF standards, according to Andrew Marino, according to Michael Levin,
why Michael
Levin can get on a podcast with Alexis and say the bullshit that he said to
everybody
is because the EPA stopped measuring non-NATVMF in the United States. Guess when?
1979. That gives
you deniable plausibility. If you don't measure it, how do you know? One of my
early jobs was to
design antenna systems and RFIMI testing systems for avionics. And I built an
enclosure that we
could do to simulate EMP and things of that nature. But we had to actually be a
little
careful because we would set off everybody's pacemaker. Did you guys see the Tucker
Carlson
interview this week with Kurt Weldon, the former Congressman, when he came out and
physically said
that, yeah, of course we got EMPs. I'm going, did everybody just fucking hear that?
And what else
did he say? Well, yeah, we do have shots that can give you cancer until you're
right away. I'm like,
hello? Is anybody paying attention out in TV land? I mean, this is coming straight
from the guys that know this. I remember he was going to be the chairman of the
armed services
committee before they got rid of them. So Scott, I'm just telling you, if you
haven't listened to
that podcast with Tucker Carlson and Kurt, go listen to it and then go listen to
any podcast
that I did with Danny Jones or the bull war guys in the last few years. And I
guarantee you,
your eyeballs will fall out of your head. I will do that. I appreciate it. And by
the way,
you have an amazing view. Oh, so stunning. I actually had a dream last night that I
was
back visiting, so I feel like it's time to come back. The whole country is closed
right now.
Really? Yeah, there's like, it's like, you can't go to the store. You can't do
anything
because you know, remember, it's called El Salvador, the savior. So it starts on
Monday and goes all the way to Sunday. Everybody's at the beach. The whole country
is at the beach.
Amazing. Oh, the place you don't want to be this week is down there.
Whatever one else. It's a freaking zoo. It'll take you three hours to go maybe a
mile.
Oh my gosh. Five million people. Everybody's at the beach. At least they're
outside.
I, Jack, I think one thing that you should stop doing is say, you know, move to El
Salvador.
I don't think you want everybody to move to El Salvador. They're going to ruin it
for you.
Well, I look at it like this. I've got my piece of paradise. And as long as I can
get the sun
for, you know, the back nine of my life, that's really all I care about. I just
want to continue
to get the message out that even if they take all of the good stuff away from us,
they can't take outside away from us. You just need to remember
that lesson that the ancient Egyptians put out at the 28th North latitude.
Go outside on the ground. A message is huge. And if you just do that, you know, you
can avoid,
you know, the fruit loops, the red dye, you know, the keto snacks, you know, the
red lights that
fucking idiots are going to sell you. Just remember the truth. Yeah. The truth is
nature.
That's how we work. The science that dictates that is quantum mechanics. That's the
basic
of biophysics. It's not biology. And before I'm done, I'm going to prove it.
I have no doubt, but anyway, well, let's wrap it. I need to go get naked and lay in
the sun.
All right. Thank you. Nice to meet you, Jack.