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Brann Dailor

Double Bass Lessons from Paramore’s

Bobby Rondinelli Zac Farro
and Joe Franco
February 2023

Learn from:
Peter Erskine • Jonathan Joseph
Ron Spagnardi • Chris Lesso • Joe Morello
©2022 DRUM WORKSHOP, INC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

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June 2021 Modern Drummer 1
CONTENTS

16 PAT PETRILLO
Pat talks about his Big Rhythm Band,
and their two releases The Abbey Road
Sessions, and the new Power Station
Sessions. He also details his long career
and influences as a drummer on the
New Jersey, Philadelphia, and New York
music scenes.
By Mark Griffith

28 ZAC FARRO 36 BRANN DAILOR 44 MARK KELSO

Zac discusses coming up as a drummer, Brann takes us through his evolution as a Canadian drummer Mark Kelso has
taking lessons, and improving. Zac tells drummer and a singer, his many musical played with everyone from Gino Vanelli
us about his return to Paramore and their and drumming influences, and the many to Pat Metheny. Mark and Robert
exciting new record. He reveals why he bands that he has played in along the Girouard talk about Mark’s career, his
left the band, and why he has returned, way to becoming Mastodon’s modern band The Jazz Exiles, and their new
and what is on the horizon for Paramore. metal master that he is today. recording The Dragon’s Tail.
By Danny Laverde By Mark Griffith By Robert Girouard
Volume 47 • Number 2
Cover photo by Lloyd Bishop LESSONS
Cover inset photos:
Brann Dailor by Jimmy Hubbard 48 BASICS
Zac Farro by Alex Kluft The Four Practice Pockets and taking advantage of your
Contents photo by Carly Vena
intuition in creating an adaptive and fluid practice model.

52 STLYE & ANALYSIS

A transcription of Pat Petrillo’s solo on “Runnin’” from his
new record The Power Station Sessions.

54 JAZZ DRUMMERS WORKSHOP

Joe Morello’s explanation about his creative exercise in
developing dynamic control.

56 ROCK AND JAZZ CLINIC

Joe Franco takes us down the road of playing triplets and
Presents:
accents over the double bass roll.
Exercises in
ABOUT THE AUTHORS
Jonathan Joseph has played with a wide variety of

African-American Funk
acclaimed artists, including Alexander O’Neal,
Al Jarreau, Mike Stern, Betty Wright, Beverley
Knight, Bill Evans, David Sanborn, Jeff Beck, Josef

62 FUNK FUNDAMENTALS
Presents: Exercises in African-American Funk

Zawinul, Joss Stone, Pat Metheny, Randy Brecker,

and Ricky Martin.
Born in 1966, Joseph began playing drums in
church services at the age of six. After attending Mangambe, Bikutsi, and the Shuffle
the University of Miami, he toured extensively
with Grammy-winning vocalist Betty Wright and
appeared on her album B-Attitudes. In 1993,
Jonathan was asked to join the Zawinul Syndicate,
led by jazz legend Josef Zawinul. In 1994, he began
• Strengthen Your Groove
working with Latin-jazz flutist Nestor Torres, and
in 1995 he joined contemporary jazz saxophonist
• Master the 3:4 Polyrhythm

Jonathan Joseph addresses the six-against-four polyrhythm

David Sanborn’s band. Between 1996 and 1998,
Joseph maintained a rigorous touring and • Increase Rhythmic Awareness
recording schedule with Al Jarreau, Mike Stern,
Bill Evans, and Randy Brecker before joining the
touring band of pop star Ricky Martin in 1999.
In 2000, Joseph toured with the legendary fusion by Jonathan Joseph
by Jonathan Joseph and Steve Rucker

band the Yellowjackets and performed with world-

renowned bassist Richard Bona. and Steve Rucker

from his book Exercises in African American Funk.

Joseph was the drummer and musical arranger
for pop/R&B singer Joss Stone in 2004 for her Soul
Sessions tour. In 2013, Jonathan went back on the
road, with legendary guitarist Jeff Beck.

Steve Rucker was a drummer in the popular band the Bee Gees. With
the Bee Gees, he appeared on The Tonight Show, Late Night With David
Letterman, The Oprah Winfrey Show, The Rosie O’Donnell Show, and the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony. He also appears on the
Bee Gees’ One Night Only recording and DVD.
Originally from Charlotte, North Carolina, Rucker attended Berklee
College of Music in Boston, and he has a master’s degree in jazz
performance from the University of Miami. He has performed or
recorded with Michael Jackson, Paquito D’Rivera, Barry Gibb, Jaco
Pastorius, Joe Sample, Johnny Cash, Bo Diddley, the Woody Herman

65 DRUM CHANNEL
Orchestra, the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra, Sam Moore, Bob James, Ben
Vereen, and Gloria Estefan.
Since 1979, Rucker has been the director of drumset studies at the
University of Miami.

Pat Petrillo explains some classic Earl Palmer and Ringo

Published By

U.S. $14.95

HL00146822

Starr grooves.
EXERCISES IN AFRICAN AMERICAN FUNK BOOK COVER FINAL JOSEPH BOOK.indd All Pages 4/10/15 4:35 PM

66 ROCK PERSPECTIVES
Bobby Rondinelli talks to us about warm-ups, beats, and
fills that incorporate playing two sixteenth nots on the bass
drums.

70 TEACHERS FORUM
Modern Drummer founder Ron Spagnardi teaches us about
Understanding the Language of Music.

EQUIPMENT
10 NEW AND NOTABLE
Modern Drummer brings you the hottest and
newest gear from Tama and Roland.

12 PRODUCT CLOSE UP
Reviews of the Gewa G3 electronic set and
Doc Sweeney’s new Hollocore Snare Drum.

DEPARTMENTS
4 EDITORS OVERVIEW 74 COLLECTORS CORNER
Mark Griffith talks about the theme of The story behind Humble Pie drummer
persistence in this month’s issue. Jerry Shirley’s Roses Kit.

6 KIT OF THE MONTH 76 OUT NOW

Peter Dawn talks about his new book Phil
8 JAZZ INSIGHTS Seamen: Percussion Genius, Legendary
Peter Erskine talks about the art and Rebel, and Born Raver.
challenges of teaching as he contemplates
“hanging up the sticks.” 80 EYE CANDY
Louie Bellson and Sammy Davis Jr’s 1960s
Gold Rogers kit.
 AN EDITOR’S OVERVIEW
Founder Ronald Spagnardi 1943–2003

Persistence Co-Founder Isabel Spagnardi

Publisher/CEO David Frangioni

CFO Carolina Frangioni

A s I read this month’s Modern

Drummer, I see a common
theme, persistence. Unfortunately,
CTO Jason Mehler
Senior Art Director Scott Bienstock
Content Director Mark Griffith
as I look around the musical world Editorial Daniel “Ziggy” Laverde
(and the world in general,) I see less Contributing Editor & Photographer Alex Kluft
and less of it. There seems to be a lot Digital Marketing Manager Ricardo Rodriguez
of “one and done” artists, drummers, Worldwide Education Dom Famularo
and people (in general) around Live Fom My Drum Room Podcast John DeChristopher
today. I see the phrase, “I took my Photography & Archivist Felipe Laverde
shot,” “I tried,” and “I made the best of Videographer Tyson Francion
it,” too much. Drumming, the music
business, and life is hard.
Immediate Gratification seems to rule the day, but that kind of success
is very fleeting. Hence the past tense words like “took,” “tried,” and “made”
being used. Success comes from persistence, living in the present, being CEO President Publisher
present, looking and pushing forward. Sajan Shiva Rick Catinella Alex Young
When I look at successful drummers like Pat Petrillo, Brann Dailor, Zac THE MD PRO PANEL/ADVISORY BOARD: Chris Adler, Carmine Appice, Kenny
Farro, Mark Kelso, Phil Seamen, and Peter Erskine; I see persistence, I feel Aronoff, Bill Bachman, Eddie Bayers, Gregg Bissonette, Jason Bittner, Bill
them pushing forward. Chipping away, looking at the long term, facing Bruford, Will Calhoun,Terri Lyne Carrington, Matt Chamberlain, Peter Erskine,
Dom Famularo, Daniel Glass, Alex González, Danny Gottlieb, Benny Greb, Matt
(perceived) failure as just another obstacle to overcome, and the absolute Halpern, Horacio Hernandez, Gerald Heyward, Taku Hirano, Jonathan Joseph,
drive to overcome the bumps in the road to move forward. That’s what they Jim Keltner, Paul Leim, Peter Magadini, Pat Mastelotto, Rod Morgenstein,
do and did. Andy Newmark, Carl Palmer, Stephen Perkins, Dafnis Prieto, Rich Redmond,
Brian Reitzell, Jim Riley, Bobby Rondinelli, Antonio Sánchez, Cindy Blackman
Pat Petrillo has been on the music scene for over 30 (!!!) years, he waited Santana, Chad Smith, Steve Smith, Todd Sucherman, Billy Ward, Kenny
for years to release his recent solo records, and this is his first appearance Washington, Dave Weckl, Paul Wertico, Dennis Wolfe
on the cover of Modern Drummer. When you read Brann Dailor’s interview,
CONTRIBUTING WRITERS: Donn Bennett, Clayton Cameron, Bob Campbell,
you’ll see that he has been in more bands (that didn’t work out) than I can Peter Erskine, Dom Famularo, Bob Girouard, Mike Haid, Brian Hill, Daru Jones,
even remember. Mastodon is far from his first time around the block. Zac Nic Kubes, Chris Lesso, Peter Magadini, James Petercsak, Tony Verderosa
Farro left Paramore when he wasn’t happy, but now he has returned to
MODERN DRUMMER magazine (ISSN SUBSCRIPTION CORRESPONDENCE:
continue in his band’s success. Mark Kelso doesn’t live in the music capital of 0194-4533) is published digitally Modern Drummer, 1279 W. Palmetto
Los Angeles or New York, but that hasn’t stopped his career. He has played monthly and print bi-monthly by Park Rd, PO Box 276064, Boca Raton,
on a lot of successful records, and he has put together a band of world MODERN DRUMMER Publications, FL 33427. Change of address: Allow
Inc., 1279 W. Palmetto Park Rd PO at least six weeks for a change. Please
class Canadian musicians and released three recordings with his band The Box 276064 Boca Raton, FL 33427. provide both old and new address and
Jazz Exiles. Phil Seamen had the persistence to find his way in the music PERIODICALS MAIL POSTAGE paid at send to [email protected]
scene of post war England. He became a leading voice in modern British Boca Raton, FL 33427 and at additional
mailing offices. Copyright 2023 by POSTMASTER: Send address changes
Jazz, pioneering a new style of music, and a new way to play the drums. MODERN DRUMMER Publications, to Modern Drummer, 1279 W. Palmetto
Now there is a facinating new book that tells his story. Finally, although Inc. All rights reserved. Reproduction Park Rd PO Box 276064 Boca Raton,
Peter Erskine ponders retirement and hanging up the sticks in this month’s without the permission of the publisher FL 33427.
is prohibited.
Jazz Insights column, he is pondering this after over 50 (!!!) years as a Canadian Publications Mail Agreement
professional drummer. EDITORIAL/ADVERTISING/ No. 41480017 Return undeliverable
In sports, they say to “keep pounding away” to win a game. While I don’t ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: Canadian addresses to: PO Box 875, Stn
MODERN DRUMMER Publications, 1279 A, Windsor ON N9A 6P2
like the thought of “pounding” the drums, the saying seems more than W. Palmetto Park Rd PO Box 276064
applicable to what we are doing as drummers and musicians. Boca Raton, FL 33427. MEMBER: National Association of Music
Email: [email protected]. Merchants, Percussive Arts Society
Mark Griffith MODERN DRUMMER welcomes MEMBER: National Association of Music
Editor-in-Chief & Director of Content manuscripts and photos but cannot Merchants, Percussive Arts Society
assume responsibility for them.

Subscribe today at moderndrummer.com/subscribe

MODERN DRUMMER ONLINE: www.moderndrummer.com
Music Key

@ModernDrummer modern_drummer @modern_drummer

4 Modern Drummer February 2023

 THE NEW GEWA G3
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It offers 3-zone cymbals, all with a 360° playing
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The GEWA G3 module is very simple to use.

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Modern Drummer February 2023 5
 KIT OF THE MONTH

AJ’s Swampy Outlaw Kit

T he most recent Kit of the Month comes to Modern Drummer

from AJ Newton, who is the drummer for Nautical Rock Band
Rusty Shipp based out of Nashville, TN. Michael explains, “Back in
2019 Michael Outlaw of Outlaw Drums built me a Cypress swamp
wood drum kit. We had numerous discussions about the style of
grungy surf rock music that Rusty Shipp plays. Therfore Michael
thought, ‘What’s more perfect for a grungy surf rock band than Cy-
press wood that was drug out of the Okefenokee swamp over 80 years
ago?’ The wood had been in Michael’s family since his grandfather
had it, he trusted me with the wood, and was happy that it would
see a second lease on life as a custom drum kit.
The set is a work of art. It’s a beautiful segmented wood kit that
I get compliments on everywhere I go. I enjoy telling the unique
story of the set (and the wood) over and over again. The drums
have a huge tuning range and are an absolute joy to sit behind
every time I perform. The dimensions are a 7x14” snare, 9x13” rack
tom, 16”x16” floor tom, 18”x18” floor tom and an 18x22” kick drum.”

6 Modern Drummer February 2023

 pat petrillo legacy mahogany

Hear them on the

new record

BIG SOUND. BIG RHYTHM

Legacy series drums by Ludwig deliver the
vintage sound trusted by professionals for over
100 years. From the stage to the studio, this
Now streaming on all platforms
is the innovative sound that hits the rhythm
just right.
Modern Drummer February 2023 7
 JAZZ INSIGHTS

The Art & Challenge of Teaching

By Peter Erskine

I am writing this on the last

day of 2022, in preparation for
my last semester of teaching
white, all or nothing at all issue,
okay?” Now, I’m paraphrasing
because his advice came quick,
full-time at the Thornton School and I was only able to type
of Music at the University of some notes with my right
Southern California. Why am I hand while I was speaking with
leaving such a coveted job? Jack. He advised me to begin
The generous-sounding taking free-associative notes
answer would be that I want to document the thoughts or
to make room for someone places where my soul-spirit
younger to enjoy this position was going. Because Jack is an
and opportunity. And, by incredibly effective and highly
doing so, I am ensuring that regarded drama teacher, he
my students enjoy some fresh mentioned a theatrical term
information. In fact, this is only Peter playing drums at summer jazz camp of art and instruction that has
part of the reason. The selfish- complete relevance to music-
other so well, it was very easy for some
sounding answer and larger part of the making, called “imitation of action.” This
deep-seated truths to make their way
reason is that I miss having days after is especially appropriate at the drums
to the surface of our conversation. And
days of free time (which only happened because of the physical nature of what
lo and behold, I heard myself saying, “I
between tours back in the day, and back we do. Imitation of action is a non-
think what I’m sensing more and more
before I started a family.) We can dream organic repetition or attempt to play
is this. Because I was taken to that jazz
right? Actually, I’m tired. Yes, I’m tired, LIKE something or someone. As opposed
summer camp in 1961 (when I was seven
but I am a professional. And so, if my to playing what that ideal or person
years old while the other students were
contract with the universe as well as the played, because of an actual REASON.
all 10 years older than me.) And because
university is to teach, then teach I must We preach listening as the way to
I went on the road just after I turned
and teach I will! learn the language and the vocabulary.
eighteen (with a band where most
I am writing this in the city of San Listening is the perfect food for
everyone else was at least ten, if not
Francisco. I flew here yesterday in inspiration and information. But what
twenty or thirty years older than me.)
preparation for rehearsals with the about the REASON that something gets
And because I joined Weather Report
San Francisco Symphony. I met my played? Sometimes this can only be
when I had just turned 24 years old…
dear old friend Jack Fletcher for dinner determined by being at the instrument,
All of this time, without consciously
last night in Jack and Ellen’s vintage- on the bandstand, in the studio, and
realizing it, I was missing my youth.”
holiday-decorations-festooned home. by making the wrong choices when it
And I know that this is what’s known
The cuisine? Take-out Chinese, of course. comes to what to play.
as a “first world problem.” Today there
And, like with any good meal, we talked I value subjective and experiential-
are actual children who are having their
after we had finished dining, drinking
youth (if not their lives) ripped away
only bottled water as the hours ticked
from them. Therefore, just to be clear, I
by. We covered a lot of ground while we
am not looking for sympathy here. I am
hydrated. And because we know each
trying to unlock a source of sadness and
Jack Fletcher fatigue that I have been feeling as both
an artist and as a human being. I actually
mentioned in a follow-up text to Jack
this morning that, for the first time in my
life, I was contemplating hanging up my
sticks.

The phone rang in no time after that.

It was Jack.

“Hey, man … this is not a black and Weather Report 1978.

8 Modern Drummer February 2023

oriented teaching. It is the kind of with, but I remember the tattooed
instruction where the teacher tells a Kenton band number on his forearm that marked
story that may (or may not) seem to have saxophonist him as a survivor of Auschwitz. Jack
particular relevance to the technique and writer Willie Louis worked nights and weekends as a
Maiden 1972.
required in the situation. However, it’s bandleader, and he gave me one of my
natural for me to question whether such first jobs. I had no cases for my drumset
a teaching method is effective and even and I was not old enough to drive. My
selfish. Although that’s the way I have brother Fred volunteered to take me to
been teaching for the past forty years! But the gig, but we left home too late, and
I wondered aloud to Jack, “Am I teaching the weekend traffic was really bad. I
the same thing to all of my students arrived at the hotel and eventually found
at the same time? His reply was very the ballroom, carrying my drums with
interesting, “The lessons are always the my brother’s help. As one of us dragged
same. The lessons are ALWAYS the same.” the bag containing my hardware across
And now, while trying to catalog the the ballroom floor, the band was already
And I realized, yes there are universal advice I’ve been given over the years, I playing up on the stage. I was really late,
truths that (not only) bear repeating recall the admonishment and musical and I set up while the band was playing,
but need repeating. And the fuel that direction given to me on my first two eventually joining in. After the first set
drives much of my anecdotal approach jobs as a “casual” gigging drummer in the was finally and mercifully over, Mr. Louis
to instruction is this: I need to relay these resort town of Atlantic City, New Jersey provided me with a plaid band jacket to
experiences to students because many when I was all of fourteen years old. wear and motioned to me with his finger
of those circumstances do not exist now The first came from a pianist who I was to come to the edge of the stage where
for them. Not to mention the fact that playing in duo with at a country club. He an empty hardwood chair awaited my
many of jazz legends and characters turned around from the keyboard and bottom.
who taught me (in one way or the other,) snarled in his best 1940s noir/gangster Once I was seated, and once he
are no longer with us. voice, “Listen, kid: I said PLAY BOOM- made certain that he had my complete
CHIK, AND KEEP IT THAT WAY!” Which I attention, the only thing I remember him
Willie Maiden: “You must take time, to now realize is pretty good advice. The telling me was this (in his lovely Eastern
make time, in order to learn how to PLAY European accented voice,) “Peter, you
time.” must always be set-up and ready to go,
Peter’s mother in
Shelly Manne: “Remember: there’s no 1961 encouraging
fifteen minutes before downbeat.”
2 + 4 without 1 + 3.” a tired Peter to That was all that he said, and that was
Joe Zawinul: “One? Forget one, man. go to rehearsal. all that he needed to say. And you know
One’s not important!” Followed a few what? I’ve never been late to a gig since.
days later by, “You should play more Thinking of Jack Louis and his
downbeats, man.” kindness, and my eyes are tearing up
Jaco Pastorius: “Stop thinking so much. now. How lucky I was to show up late so
Just concentrate!” I could benefit from his gentle wisdom.
Michael Brecker: “I never heard It’s my favorite lesson. Always be
someone who, on one hand can sound set-up and ready to go, fifteen minutes
so great, and then on the other hand before downbeat. And that’s my lesson
sound so bad …” (said to me, about me.) this month to all of you reading this. That
Manfred Eicher: “You’re not listening. will be my first lesson of the year for my
Just listen … then everything will be students at USC, and I don’t care if I’ve
okay.” told the story to them before, they’ll do
Vince Mendoza: “The eraser is the most well to hear it again.
important part of the pencil.”
Steve Gadd: “Never pet a burning dog.”
(I read this in an interview, Steve didn’t
Check out Peter’s
actually say this to me … but I’ve always drummer profile page,
remembered it.) and get a copy of
John Williams: “Peter, didn’t you just second and more kind advice came his Legends book at
love Shelly (Manne)? But he DID like to
moderndrummer.com
from an accordionist and bandleader
call attention to himself … wouldn’t you who also owned the local music store in
agree?” (Got the note, John … thanks.) town. His name was Jack Louis. I don’t
know the name he came from Europe

Modern Drummer February 2023 9

 ROLAND INSTRUMENTS FOR FIRST TIME DRUMMERS, AND
EXAMINING THE PHYSICAL AND COGNITIVE EFFECTS OF DRUMMING
Roland TD-02 V-Drum Series they conducted a series of experiments and studies, including
The Roland TD-02K and TD-02KV V-Drums kits provide a Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) scans, ultimately discovering
premium musical experience for first-time drummers, practicing both groundbreaking physical and cognitive results.
students, and adults looking to start playing drums again. The
kits are based around Physical Benefits of Drumming
the TD-02 module, Through testing inspired by work with the
which includes 16 England and Great Britain Boxing Teams,
ready-to-play kits the CBDP found that high-level drummers
and onboard Coach can exert the same level of energy during a
functions to help concert as a professional soccer player in a
build and maintain 90-minute match.
skills. Drummers can In addition, it has proven that drumming
use headphones for can increase the adult heart rate from 60
quiet home playing bpm to 200 bpm, as well as increase breaths
sessions and connect per minute from 15 to 50 and produce
a smartphone to play sweat loss rates of up to 1 liter per hour, all
along with their favorite of which demonstrate legitimate physical
songs. An optional exercise associated with the activity, and
Bluetooth adaptor adds the benefits don’t stop there.
wireless capabilities for
streaming music from Cognitive Benefits of Drumming
mobile devices and On top of the physical exertion, the team
communicating with uncovered impressive cognitive benefits
MIDI production apps. The TD-02K and TD-02KV offer a full array from drumming. Through their data, CBDP discovered numerous
of drum and cymbal pads with sensitive playing surfaces to changes in brain function while drumming that can aid with
develop proper techniques. The upgraded TD-02KV kit includes common cognitive development, in addition to that associated
a Roland mesh-head snare pad with a natural acoustic stick feel with brain injury and specific neurodiverse brain conditions.
and rebound. The hi-hat and kick trigger
pedals in both kits feature noise-reducing
designs to minimize sound transfer in living
spaces.

Blondie drummer Clem Burke

and Roland examine the
physical and cognitive effects
of drumming
Roland announces its partnership with
the Clem Burke Drumming Project
(CBDP), aiming to expand the benefits of
drumming to everyone through data-
driven insights on its benefits to both
physical and mental health.
In 2008, inspired by the drumming of
legendary artist Clem Burke, scientists
sought to uncover the physical demand
of “live” drumming. Partnering with Burke,

10 Modern Drummer February 2023

These include changes to the Mirror this ultimately creates improvements in comprised of Professors Marcus Smith,
Neuron System (MNS), the part of our motor control, movement coordination, Stephen Draper, Steve Williams, as well
brain that generates empathy, which working memory, response times, action as Dr. Ruth Lowry and Clem Burke, in
could largely benefit those living with planning and attentional control among collaboration with Roland, is excited to
conditions such as autism. drummers. continue research in order to expand the
Through drumming’s unique ability understanding of further effects and help
to utilize all four limbs, which often Looking Ahead to bring these health benefits to wider
work independently from one another, While this data demonstrates drumming’s groups of people—even going as far as
the brain is forced to adapt, leading revolutionary effects on physical, mental, those living with movement disorders,
to improved pathways between its and emotional development, the CBDP’s or rehabilitating from strokes and brain
regions. The CBDP’s data showed that work is far from finished. The team, injuries. roland.com

TAMA ANNOUNCES RELEASE OF NEW STAGESTAR SERIES KITS

New for 2023, TAMA has announced the release of their new, a ball/socket tom arm design for flexible positioning and secure
super-affordable STAGESTAR drum kits. STAGESTAR provides a hold. Additionally, the L-arms do not penetrate the tom shells
full sounding drum set with durable hardware and functional when connected, which allows the tom shell to resonate more
cymbals. 100% Poplar 6ply 7mm shells produce full, dynamic freely than other conventional mounting systems. TAMA’s
tones for each drum. Hardware stands feature double braced STAGESTAR is the next generation of entry-level complete drum
legs – Boom stand with multi-angle adjustments, snare stand sets for the value-conscious consumer. It includes everything
with adjustable snare basket, and hi-hat stand with a strong players need (except drumsticks) to get started on a full-sized
clutch that holds tight. The bass drum pedal is equipped with drum set.
Features:
100% poplar Shell 6ply/7mm
Omnisphere Tom Holder
STAGESTAR Brass Cymbal Set
Drum Pedal & Drum Throne
Finishes: Black Night Sparkle, Cosmic Silver Sparkle, Lime Green
Sparkle, Sea Blue Mist
What is included in the ST52H5C package
Drums: 22”x16”, 10”x8”, 12”x9”, 16”x15”, 14”x5.5”
Hardware: double tom holder, hi-hat stand, single drum pedal,
snare stand, boom cymbal stand, drum throne
LIST: $1,100.00
tama.com

separate spring tension and beater angle adjustments to

provide customized pedal feel, according to player preference.
The 14” hi-hat and 16” crash cymbals use thicker gauge brass
than is common at this price point and provide increased
volume and durability. Also included with this kit is a double-
braced drum throne with spindle height adjustment. This design
is more secure and easier to position up/down than is a fixed
bolt height adjustment. The last feature that differentiates
STAGESTAR is the TAMA Omnisphere Tom Holder. It incorporates

Modern Drummer February 2023 11

 PRODUCT CLOSE-UP

GEWA G3 Studio Electronic Drum Kit

By Jason Mehler

G erman musical instrument

manufacturer GEWA was founded
in 1925 in a region known for its rich
and the included double-braced hi-hat
stand, everything mounts to the GEWA
studio rack. The rack includes two sturdy
are multiple tubes at various lengths,
some requiring rubber feet, endcaps
or clamps to mount the cymbal arms.
musical history. In 2020, GEWA began boom stands for the cymbals and a Additionally, the clamps that mount the
developing digital drums as part of their curved mount for the G3 drum module. I toms and connect the extensions need
drum division. The subject of this month’s believe I was provided the rack for the G3 to be slid onto the tubes prior to placing
product closeup is the GEWA G3 electronic Studio 5 (next model up) because my rack any endcaps. I found my self backtracking
drum kit. The company’s intention for had an extra boom stand. I’m not sure if several times. The good news for
the G3 is to provide a quality e-drum that was by mistake but it provided a nice fellow left-handed drummers is that
kit with high-end features & sounds place to hang my headphones. everything can mount great in reverse,
at an affordable price point. Did they unlike the minor issues I’ve run into with
accomplish this? I think so. Let’s dig in. HARDWARE SETUP comparable e-drum kits.
Rack Pads and Cables
WHAT’S IN THE BOX? The setup of the The drum pads
The G3 Studio is a 5-piece kit that GEWA rack took a mounted easily on
includes the G3 drum module, a 10” kick while, mainly because the rack except for the
drum pad, three 10” tom pads, and a I was being stubborn kick drum pad, which
12” snare pad. For the cymbals there is and tried to figure it is a well-designed,
a 14” crash pad, 18” ride and a 14” hi-hat out without following standalone unit. It
pad with a controller as the bottom hat the provided features a large Velcro
trigger. Aside from the bass drum pad instructions. There mat that lays under the

12 Modern Drummer February 2023

bass drum pedal and is highly effective The back panel of the G3 module
at securing the unit in place. The G3 features nine trigger inputs (two for
does not include a pedal or drum throne. the hi-hat) and two auxiliary inputs. As
The cables are numbered rather than for outputs, the G3 has a left and right
labeled with the instrument names, master output on the back panel and a
which may annoy some people, but I stereo headphone jack on the front. The
found it similar to working with mics and module also has Bluetooth connectivity
numbered interfaces. On each cymbal for audio and MIDI, allowing you to
there are two TRS jacks, one of which is stream music or use smartphone apps,
for connecting to non-GEWA modules. as well as the ability to load up to 100
I mistakenly connected to the wrong user WAV samples. The module includes
jack and had to switch when testing the depending on the velocity of the hit, a quick record function for real-time WAV
sound module. When all was said and will either play a rim click or a rim shot. recording, and each sound(s) has its own
done, I was able to mount, position and I played with that setting for a bit until I compressor and 3-band parametric EQ for
wire everything with minimal effort. found a comfortable spot to transition. further sound customization. The outputs
Let’s talk about the rim triggers. also have a compressor and four-band EQ
PLAYING EXPERIENCE For GEWA pads, the entire metal rim for shaping the overall sound. In addition,
Once the GEWA G3 module is powered is a trigger, however GEWA provides a the module has four effect banks with a
on, you are taken through a simple setup moveable hard rubber attachment that variety of reverb and multi-effect options,
wizard where you calibrate the hi hat. you are supposed to
Basically, you close the hi hat, press a place where you feel most
button, open the hi-hat, press the button comfortable hitting the
again and then save. I struggled to get rim. The online consensus
this right at first, and the resulting sound about this attachment
and performance was sub-optimal. is that it’s too small and
However, I started over, unplugging limits where you can hit
and re-plugging the hi hat triggers and the rim. Personally, it
re-calibrating. It worked the second time doesn’t bother me on the
around and I was pleasantly surprised by toms, but doesn’t feel so
the realistic sound and feel. It instantly great on the snare. I like
became fun to play. the snare better with the
Like comparable e-drum kits, the attachment removed.
pad volume, sensitivity, and response The cymbal pads feel
are pretty good right out of the box. nice to play and I really
The sampled instrument sounds are love the large bell on
high-resolution multi-layered samples, the ride. The three trigger zones on the as well as traditional MIDI and USB
recorded in the Berlin Funkhaus studios cymbals are advertised as 360 degrees, connectivity for use with VST plugins.
and are the same exact samples used in however I did notice some variations in I found the G3 very easy to navigate
their flagship G9 series kit. The sounds the response when moving around the and dial up a specific preset. I haven’t
are really nice, and this is where the G3 cymbal. This is not a deal-breaker, you just picked a favorite preset drum set yet, but
truly stands out relative to other kits in it’s need to learn where the sweet spots are, I’m leaning towards the Jazz Kit. However,
price point. similar to a traditional cymbal. there are several kits that I could get stuck
One thing that was obvious when on as favorites.
first testing the kit was the presence of WORKING WITH THE G3 S
crosstalk (e.g. ride cymbal would produce OUND MODULE IN CONCLUSION
sound when hitting the floor tom etc.) The G3 sound module boasts a sleek, Overall, I enjoyed testing and playing the
due to vibrations traveling through minimalist design with a few large backlit GEWA G3 Studio kit. While there were a
the rack system. A little bit of crosstalk buttons and dials for easy navigation. few initial adjustments that needed to be
doesn’t bother me, depending on It takes a bit of repetition to become made, I was able to overcome any issues
which instruments are being triggered. familiar with the controls, but once you and enjoy playing the kit. Retailing at
However, It was a bit much. Therefore I understand how the buttons and dials $1,899, the GEWA G3 is definitely a strong
adjusted the X-Talk settings within the correspond to the icons on the screen, contender in the electronic drum market
sound module and was able to get it navigating the onscreen menu is a and well worth considering for those in
under control. breeze. The menu structure and features the market for a new electronic drum kit
Another thing that was fun to tweak are user-friendly and straightforward, gewamusicusa.com
was the cross-stick settings of the snare. making it easy to get the hang of the
There is a setting called X-Fade where, module.

Modern Drummer February 2023 13

 PRODUCT CLOSE-UP

Doc Sweeney’s Hollocore Snare Drum

A Resonating New Twist on Shell Construction
By Brian Hill

T he guys over at Doc Sweeney Drums

are well known for putting together
a high-quality product. They are also
Everything matters because everything
affects the sound of the drum.
It seems Doc Sweeney’s main line
and are perfectly finished to blend
almost seamlessly into the appearance of
the drum’s shell.
known for having no fear when it of thinking stems from looking at how The shell measures in at 6.5 x 14 and
comes to thinking “outside the box.” A other acoustic instruments produced it is 0.75” thick. This thickness not only
lot of people like to throw that phrase their signature rich sounds and provides the room necessary for the
around, but I think it really applies presence, for example a hollow body Hollocore but provides for the 30-degree
here. I received a brand new Hollocore guitar. With that principle in mind, the rounded bearing edge. Therefore, no
Maple Snare Drum to try out and I was idea for a sound chamber, or acoustic reinforcement rings are required. Inlays
immediately intrigued. resonance chamber that was built into are placed at the two connecting points
Steve Stecher, the lead drum guru and the shell, was born. Doc Sweeney calls between the bearing edge sections and
a founding member at Doc Sweeney this the HOLLOCORE, simply because the the Hollocore. After the sanding and
Drums, wanted to design a drum with core (or center section) of the shell, is drilling process, the entire shell receives a
serious built-in lows, and a fat punchy hollow all the way around. beautiful, hand rubbed oil finish.
sound that had power and musical The HOLLOCORE drum shell is Two-point tube lugs provide a
significance. A great deal of effort was principally a stave construction design. traditional look while employing minimal
put into Doc Sweeney’s R&D and the However, this stave shell is very different contact with the shell. They also work
testing process sounded exhausting. from conventional thinking. The design to strengthen the shell’s integrity. While
This process led them to explore every consists of separate solid batter and the heavier die cast hoops are provided
avenue possible. resonant bearing edge sections. The with this drum, other hoop options are
I once read a question on an on- hollow core is made of thin internal and available upon request. This drum was
line forum asking if the shell actually exterior walls that slip into joints on the shipped with an Aquarian Super 2 batter
mattered to the drum sound. Good bearing edge sections. The connecting head and an Aquarian resonant head
question. In my humble opinion: Yes! walls are constructed in the stave fashion sporting the Doc Sweeney logo. A clear

14 Modern Drummer February 2023

acrylic vent grommet frames
the vent hole almost invisibly,
while an Inde Snare Strainer
and Butt, and 16 strand
wire snares, round out the
hardware.
With the exception of the
vent grommet, the Hollocore
resonance chamber remains
totally uninterrupted. No
hardware comes in contact
with the Hollocore. Only the shell, amplifying that resonance with The review drum came with a Maple
top and bottom solid sections of the exceptional musical results. The internal shell and Walnut inlays. However,
shell are used as hardware contact points cavity of the shell (Hollocore) resonates Doc Sweeney also makes a Walnut
and fasteners. with the rest of the drum, providing version with Maple inlays, as well as
The sound of this drum is big! That more low-end and presence than many a combination shell of Maple and
being said, I find it to be extremely other snares, past or present. And it Mahogany with Walnut inlays. With
controlled. It is not obnoxiously loud, does this while maintaining a seriously Hollocore, options won’t be a problem.
unless you want it to be. Grace notes are controlled sound. If you, like the folks at Doc Sweeney
perfect and sensitive. Loud notes really I’ve seen many “improvements,” fads, Drums, have been looking for a drum
cranked and cut though. The more I dug and gimmicks over the years. Those that screams “FAT – PUNCH – POWER” (as
in, the more the Hollocore’s resonant designs are created and promoted to Doc Sweeney likes to put it,) then you
character exposed itself. build a “better mouse trap,” but I don’t owe it to yourself to look into this one.
The snare’s note is wide, without all think this is one of them. The Hollocore Like all of the products at Doc Sweeney
the uncontrolled ringing that comes with Snare Drum design is a game changing Drums, you’ll find extremely well made,
some really resonant drums. There didn’t option in drum design that does make one of a kind, hand-crafted instruments
seem to be a lot of unwanted overtones. a noticeable and positive difference in that look and sound great. They may
It’s a fat and throaty sound that fits nicely sound. I believe it is a contribution in come in a box, but Doc Sweeney didn’t
into a wide variety of music. The maple design that is here to stay. I also believe get there by thinking that way! The
shell gives this drum a nice warm and the Hollocore will inspire even more Hollocore’s retail price is $975.00
earthy timbre that works nicely and changes in the once humble design of a Docsweeneydrums.com
responds to a variety of tunings with drum.
ease.
While playing different styles of music,
I found myself going totally “rudimental”
on this drum at one point while sitting
at the kit. In doing this, I realized that
the snare’s versatility not only works
well as part of the drum set but would
also work effectively in a concert band
or orchestral setting. While most stave
constructed drums generally provide
a good “thump,” I could actually feel
this drum’s presence on my legs and in
my chest. The resonant projection was
there!
The construction of any drum is
as an acoustic resonance chamber,
a membranophone. The Hollocore
extends that characteristic into the

Modern Drummer February 2023 15

 Pat Petrillo:
Big Rhythm
from Jersey

P
at Petrillo is the On his new record, The Power Station Georgia,”) playing percussion on a
Sessions (Autumn Hill Records,) Pat pays variety of disco records, unknown to
quintessential hard homage to the New York City music him who it was or what it was for. But it
working professional scene where he cut his teeth. It’s a didn’t matter. It was great experience.
musician. He is both a veritable groove-fest of originals and Pat went off to college to study music
covers arranged for a great horn band and came back home to Jersey to study
“drummer’s drummer,” and he has assembled called The Big Rhythm (and later teach) at the famed Drummers
to some, an unsung hero. Band. They play everything from deep Collective. The rest of us first met Pat
Pat has earned the respect pocket Funk/R&B to Blues shuffles, when he was featured on a DCI video on
Jersey Shore Rock to Philly Jazz/Fusion, the rudiments.
of his peers and has built and there is a dash of New Orleans Not only did his career as an in-
a great reputation in the thrown in just to spice it up. Pat plays demand clinician start to take hold,
drum industry. He comes it all with the conviction of a drummer but he hit the Broadway scene as a sub
on a mission…to serve the music at drummer. He played for A Chorus Line,
from a culturally diverse all costs. He learned by playing along Grease, and Footloose, did a national tour
neighborhood in New to records from The Beatles to James of Dreamgirls, and Newsies. He also did
Jersey, halfway between Brown, Weather Report to The Police, a stint as the house drummer for the
and while honing his rudimental snare Comedy Central Show, Exit 57 and did a
Philadelphia and New York chops in drum corps with the famous bunch of jingles. All the while, Pat was
City, which has made it Bayonne Bridgemen. splitting his time in Philly playing and
convenient for him to work His earliest recording experiences recording with guitarist Ed Hamilton,
were as a high school kid in the New keyboardist Dave Falciani, bassist Gerald
and keep a presence in both Jersey studio of legendary producer Veasley, and percussionist Jose Rossy (of
cities. Tony Camillo (“Midnight Train to Weather Report fame.) It was Rossy who

16 Modern Drummer February 2023

 Alex Solca
Lloyd Bishop

Modern Drummer February 2023 17

 recommended Pat for the drum chair of drummers with Pat’s serious groove that I have ever done. There were four
with Patti LaBelle, his first major artist and fluid style. In this interview, we’ll different drummers auditioning at the
gig. learn about his career and where things same time, and everybody was told to
As an educator, Petrillo’s books and are headed for this working-class bring their own drums, which I thought
videos Hands, Grooves, & Fills and Learn drummer/educator/entrepreneur. was strange. We all set our drums up
to Read Rhythms (Hudsonmusic.com) on a big stage in Patti’s warehouse in
are a staple in drum education. His live MD: What was auditioning for Patti South Philly and the musical director
appearances and online lessons on LaBelle like? had us all sitting at our drums. I thought
Drumeo have inspired a new generation PP: It was one of the weirdest things he was going to have us play one at a
time. He calls “Lady
Marmalade” with all
four of us playing at the
same time and in the
same room! He pointed
to each one of us and
said, “YOU play the kick
drum part, YOU play
the snare part, YOU play
the hi hat part, and YOU
(the fourth guy) don’t
do anything until I tell
you!” Then he counted
off the tune. That was
such a strange moment,
but he was testing us.
He figured that if you
really knew the groove
that you could play
any of the parts. That’s
why he split the groove
between us. He wanted
to find out who knew
the groove and who
didn’t, and who could
follow directions and
who couldn’t. I was
fresh out of college, and
already involved doing
Broadway shows, so I
could follow directions
very well.
MD: That’s a really
“interesting” way of
handling the audition
process, I suppose?
PP: Bud Ellison (the
musical director)
instantly found out who
could follow directions
and who couldn’t. And
I’m sure he wanted
to see if any of us
would start laughing
at the absurdity of the
process. The audition
Lloyd Bishop

was instantly cut down

to two guys, one of

18 Modern Drummer February 2023

 I learned how to treat education with
which was me, and I ended up getting
the gig. I had that gig for about six

respect. You also gain that respect

months, and it was an honor to play
with her. Patti was probably the best
singer that I have ever played with. I
got married while I was in that band, for education through learning about
and I couldn’t do some gigs and a tour
because I was on my honeymoon. That’s the history of the instrument.
when they got Dony Wynn to do the
gig, then John Blackwell joined the
band after that. Patti tended to change and learning how to be a well-rounded playing very early, around age 5 or 6, but
drummers like a pair of socks. person as well as a musician, and college I didn’t take lessons. My teachers were
MD: Other than Broadway, and Patti did that for me. When I got home and Ringo, Clyde, Jabo, Earl Palmer, Bonham,
LaBelle, what other gigs and artists have started studying at Drummers Collective, Art Blakey, Gadd, Al Jackson Jr. etc. I
you played and recorded with? that really helped me develop my skills didn’t take “formal” drumset lessons until
PP: I’ve played and recorded a lot with as a working musician in New York. college, that’s when I started working
singer/songwriter Glen Burtnik. We Playing in those various rhythm section hard on studying jazz, and different
did a few records together including classes was awesome. I was really able styles.
Palookaville, which is a great pop record, to fuse the college approach with the MD: What did you study at Drummers
I’m really proud of that one. Through Collective’s real-world approach. That Collective?
playing with Glen, I was in the rhythm really helped me when I was backing PP: While I was at The Collective, I
section playing for various events and singers in various contexts or doing any took all the 12-week classes they
festivals backing singers like John Waite, gig or recording session. A lot of people offered. I also studied privately with
Phoebe Snow, and Patty Smyth. Glen really can’t take direction well, and when Hank Jaramillo, Rob Weiner, and took
would use his rhythm section as the you are backing an artist, that’s what you a bunch of lessons with Peter Erskine.
nucleus of the house band, and I got to have to do. You have to listen to what He was very helpful in shaping my jazz
really develop relationships with various the musical director says and take his (or philosophy and my jazz playing, and
MD’s and musicians that would use me her) direction. You really learn how to do just my time keeping overall in every
on their projects as well. that in college. genre. He really helped me develop my
I’ve also backed the great singer MD: I’m a firm believer in (for better communication skills in my teaching
Gloria Gaynor for a few years, and toured and for worse) we teach how we were as well. He was real direct, concise,
around the US, as well as Asia, Indonesia, taught. What type of teaching methods and he didn’t throw platitudes around
and a trip to Russia. That was really and experience with different teachers lightly. He was great. I also studied
wild, backline drumsets were not really did you have? Afro Cuban music with Frankie Malabe.
a thing over there, (if you know what I PP: Yes, but that can work both ways. Frankie would always say, “Don’t treat
mean.) I still occasionally work with her. You can learn what to do and what not this music as just a beat, because it’s so
MD: That’s a hard groovin’ gig. to do. I learned how to treat education much more than a beat, it’s a culture.”
PP: True! It’s not just “disco,” it’s POCKET, with respect. You also gain that respect So when I teach, I try not to just teach
and you have to be rock solid and make for education through learning about a beat or a fill, I like to put music into
people dance, that’s for sure. I tend to the history of the instrument. I started context. At the same time, you do need
play with a lot of groove artists, whether a certain amount of coordination to
it’s Rock or R&B, but I also dig the Philly
jazz fusion stuff that has always been in
Frankie (Malabe) put beats and fills into the musical
context. I like to teach both the technical
my wheelhouse.
MD: Where did you go to college? would always say, side and the musical side of things to
students. I like to turn students on to
PP: Morehead State University in
Kentucky, with Professor Frank Oddis. “Don’t treat this the great drummers and grooves of the
past as well. We are all paying homage
I wanted to go to a school that had a
great percussion program, and where music as just a and standing on the shoulders of the
drummers that came before us. My

beat, because it’s

everyone was better than me. I had overall educational philosophy is to
never played classical percussion, but blend the technical and the historical
I knew it would help me as a musician.
so much more
sides together.
I got my Bachelor’s degree and my I have found that many teachers tend
Masters in Music Education. I played in to avoid a student’s weak points, and
Percussion Ensemble, Jazz Ensemble, than a beat, it’s they want to teach students how to
and Jazz Vocal Ensemble. I have always improve things that they can already
enjoyed the education side of things a culture.” do. But a good teacher will identify a

Modern Drummer February 2023 19

 student’s weaknesses and try to improve education, makes me think of something. fill and thanked him for that inspiration.
those things that are holding them Steve Gadd was in town with David Then I played a few of my little variations
back. THAT’S the hard part. I always tell Sanborn, we talked on the phone, and he of that fill, and Steve actually asked me
intermediate students that at first, they was gracious to let me hang for a while how I played the variations! Here I was
are going to sound bad a heck of a lot at soundcheck. Steve was having trouble with the drummer who inspired me
more than they are going to sound good. with his bass drum sound, so he asked me so much, and he was asking ME about
But you must have really thick skin, fight to help him figure it out and be another a few of the orchestrations that I had
through that, and embrace it. Thankfully, set of ears. After we tweaked his bass developed off of what he had played! It
cathy Vena

today with iphones and video you can drum a bit, he asked me to play it while was amazing! It was a full circle moment.
film yourself and see your improvement he went out front and listened. I was like I was so humbled by his graciousness and
in real time. Teaching will always be a “WHAT?” This is crazy! Here I am sitting his inimitable style. I stayed for the rest
big part of who I am as a musician. I love on Steve’s kit with Steve listening to ME of soundcheck. Lo and behold, between
giving back, it’s something I’ve always play HIS kit! It was a trip. We finished songs I heard him working on one of my
done, and I will continue to do. tuning it up a bit more, and I just had orchestrations (or reconstructions) of one
Speaking of teaching, learning, and to throw in Steve’s signature ratamacue of his classic licks. That was it right there.

20 Modern Drummer February 2023

You never stop learning, you never stop rivets, and an 18”. We actually tracked first drumset, and I went from playing
evolving, you never stop creating. THAT’S the horn parts here in New Jersey with a along to Ringo to playing along with
what it’s all about. That’s why education is click, and then I tracked the drums and Clyde and Jabo in one afternoon. I was
so important, because we are ALL always part of the rhythm section at Abbey Road. also listening to early Steve Gadd with Al
learning from each other. I hired a great musician named Duncan Jarreau and Chick Corea, but later I found
MD: If we are really paying attention, Maitland to play the actual Abbey Road out he played on a lot disco records too
Steve Gadd is teaching us ALL how to be keyboards that were used on the original (“The Hustle,” “Stuff,”) I was listening to Al
musicians. recordings on “Lady Madonna,” “Ob-La-Di, Jackson Jr on Stax records, Earth, Wind, &
PP: Absolutely. Roy Haynes, Ringo, Charlie Ob-La-Da,” and “Martha, My Dear.” When Fire, Weather Report…you name it!
Watts, Jim Keltner, James Gadson, they you hear my record you are hearing the MD: Let’s talk about the new record,
are all the same way. They all inspire us. actual keyboards that were played on the The Power Station Sessions. You applied
MD: So how did the Big Rhythm Band Beatle records. We used a lot of the same the same concept to music recorded at
manifest? compressors and a few of the old D20 that iconic studio in New York City. You
PP: I just wanted a steady outlet to play mic’s too. That was a seminal moment in recorded some of the classic music that
and record the music and arrangements I my musical life to be sitting in the same was recorded there, plus some original
wanted to play. Putting all my influences place, using some of the same gear, tunes.
together, crafting cool and interesting playing some of the same songs, in the PP: You can think of many artists when
arrangements, and controlling my own same studio as the Beatles. My record you think of the Power Station, but when
situation. I wanted to play what I want to is more of an homage to Ringo and the I think of the Power Station I think of
play, and with whom I want to play. The Beatles, not a tribute or an imitation. I the great groove records by Chic, David
Big Rhythm Band plays a ton of different give a nod to Ringo’s original parts, but Bowie, Paul Simon, Bruce Springsteen,
groove styles…hence the name. A horn I also added a bit of my own take, but I and Billy Joel. I wanted to make this a
band with a big groove!
MD: And that’s a New Jersey thing too,
there is such a history of horn bands in
We are all paying homage and standing
New Jersey.
PP: Absolutely! Southside Johnny and
on the shoulders of the drummers that
the Asbury Jukes, Kool and the Gang…
and don’t forget Count Basie! came before us. My overall educational
MD: You have done two records with
your band so far. The first one, The Abbey philosophy is to blend the technical and
the historical sides together.
Road Sessions (Palmetto Records), was
done at Abbey Road in Studio 2, Let’s
talk a bit about that record first, and
how it came to be.
PP: Well, my first love was The Beatles always kept the music at the forefront. New York-New Jersey centric record.
and Ringo, although they had basically MD: It’s a perfect concept because The MD: You have lots of guests on the record,
broken up by the time that I got turned Beatles brought horns to many of their including one of THE greatest rhythm
on to them. I learned the lyrics and the tunes. It all started with “Got To Get You guitarists ever in Nile Rodgers. Can you
song forms before I even had a drum set. Into My Life.” talk about the relationship between the
It was embedded in my soul. I knew that PP: Yes, and we did a cool version of that drums and the rhythm guitar?
I wanted to do horn arrangements of on the record as well, mashing it up with PP: That’s a great question. Most people
certain Beatles songs that lent themselves the Earth, Wind, & Fire version. Producer connect drums and bass, but rhythm
to reimagining, but I didn’t want to create George Martin used horns a lot more than guitar is crucial. I wrote the opening
typical “big band” arrangements. It had people realize. tune “48th Street” with Nile Rodgers in
to be the Beatles vocals and harmonies MD: What are some of the other musical mind specifically. I wanted his pocket, his
orchestrated for a horn section, with spot influences that shaped your style of sound, his feel, and the way that he plays
on arrangements of the songs that fit that playing? rhythm guitar. Nile Rogers is such an icon
approach best. PP: New York had lots of great AM and in the New York music scene. He grew up
Next, it HAD to be recorded at Abbey FM radio stations playing a variety of playing jazz, but like so many musicians
Road Studio 2. So I booked Abbey Road music in the mid 70s early 80s. As a kid I he took that sensibility to groove music.
Studio 2 for two days, we rented a 1966 got turned on to them all. Amazingly, I Lenny Pickett played a solo on that tune
Ludwig Super Classic kit from John can remember the day I was listening to as well. Capturing that New York vibe was
Henry’s, and I found two older 5.5” Jazz Ringo on my 8-track, then I heard James really important to me, and I think we did
Festival snares. Paul Francis (formerly of Brown come on the radio. I went right that. The grooves that the late great Tony
Zildjian) created a set of Avedis cymbals out and bought a James Brown 8-track Thompson and Bernard Edwards played
similar to what Ringo used, a 20” with called Hot Pants. By that time, I had my with Chic are so inspiring and so classic,

Modern Drummer February 2023 21

 they did so much for popular music at players on this record, can you talk more is coming out of country and singer
that time, and most of it was cut at The about playing with Oz Noy and Felicia songwriters. In my eyes, Americana isn’t
Power Station. Collins? a slice of American music, it’s ALL of
MD: The harmonic information, the PP: Oz Noy has a very unique sound and American music. I’m playing Americana
rhythmic information, the groove, and has great time and rhythmic sensibility. music in the sense that we are playing
even some of the melodic information is He’s on our version of “Black Cow,” an American grooves from funk to soul
ALL in the rhythm guitar part. original of mine called “Global Warming,” to blues to rock. I call all of that music
PP: And Nile is GREAT at that. When he and an arrangement we did of Billy Joel’s “Americana” instrumental music. New
heard the changes to my tune “48th “Big Man on Mulberry Street,” where he Orleans music evolved into rhythm and
Street” his voicings were spot on. He blazes a solo. blues, and that evolved into rock and
knew where to voice everything on the Speaking of that tune, I loved the roll and funk, all of that evolved into
guitar, he heard the changes like a jazz shuffle that Liberty DeVitto played on fusion, which contains jazz, which (of
guitarist would, but instead of playing that tune, so I had to play that for sure. course) goes back to New Orleans. It’s a
lines, he was playing rhythms around Then I crafted some other grooves inside big circle, and it’s all based on the blues.
the changes. At that point, all I had to do the tune. While we were recording, I All of that music is my inspiration, it’s all
was hold on! called Lib and asked him where they cut in my DNA. If you call yourself The Big
Unfortunately, the rhythm guitar it, and it was indeed at Power Station Rhythm Band, you better bring some
has taken a back seat in popular music in Studio C! Later I found out that my BIG rhythms and cover as many groove
recently. To me the rhythm guitar player engineer, Roy Hendrickson, was actually genres as you can.
is THE TIME in a funk or groove tune. an assistant on that session. So, it’s come Of course, I had to do a Beatles cover
When a rhythm guitar player starts a full circle. Felicia Collins was in the Late on this record too, and I had to include
tune by himself, that’s my old friend Glen
the time, that’s the
song. It’s not what You never stop learning, you Burtnik. I went with “It
Won’t Be Long” because
the drummer or the
bassist wants, it’s what never stop evolving, you never I always thought that
would lend itself well

stop creating. THAT’S what it’s

the rhythm guitarist to horns because of
is playing. Take the call and response.

all about. That’s why education is

Prince for example, I reworked an original
he had impeccable called “Global Warming.”
time. The feel for the That was actually two
whole song is coming so important, because we are ALL different tunes that I
through the rhythm played and recorded
guitar. Having great always learning from each other. with our mutual old
time is not always friend from Philly, the
playing 100% to a late great Dave Falciani.
metronome. It’s like a rubber band, it Night with David Letterman Band and That tune has a real Weather Report vibe.
flexes and moves, and you have to listen plays on a song of mine called “Asbury MD: Then you have a really cool
and lock in. Days” that harkens back to Southside arrangement of “Hey, Pocky Way.”
On that same Hot Pants record I Johnny and the Asbury Jukes. She’s a PP: I studied a lot of New Orleans based
mentioned earlier is the track “Doing it great Rock/Blues/Funk player who also music in depth with Ricky Sebastian at
to Death.” That 12/8 feel that the rhythm has great time and feel. the Collective. I went on a deep dive into
guitar plays in that tune embeds the MD: Liberty created great drum parts for researching the history of New Orleans
time into your DNA. When I’m playing all those Billy Joel songs. He’s like Ringo music for years. I went from traditional
those types of tunes, whether you’re in a way, his parts become synonymous second line to the Mardi Gras Indians.
playing with a rhythm guitar player with, and inseparable from those classic I heard how Earl Palmer connected
or not, you have to hear and feel the songs. that to Little Richard, Fats Domino, and
subdivisions that the rhythm guitarist PP: He’s absolutely an icon. I respect his Professor Longhair. Eventually I got to
would be (or is) playing, inside your playing so much, and he’s such a great The Meters. I often tell my students,
head. Look at a tune like “Smells Like dude. you need to BE from that region of the
Teen Spirit.” If you can’t get with the MD: The vibe of this record is so varied, country to play in that spirit. But you can
groove that Kurt Cobain is playing on but it all works together. There are so “come from there” by visiting it musically
the rhythm guitar from the beginning, many groove styles. Let’s get into some and listening to the roots of the music
then that music is NOT for you. The of the other tracks. of that region. It’s so important as a
rhythm guitar part is the soul and the PP: You know, I see this record as almost drummer to convey the essence of the
thread of a lot of musical styles. an “Americana” record of sorts, but not feel. You can’t hide it…People can hear
MD: There are some other great guitar in the sense of Americana music that it. It doesn’t get much better than “Hey

22 Modern Drummer February 2023

 Pocky Way,” so we went there and did a and it happened to be on an R&B record. the audio from the record dubbed
version of that classic tune. Towards the end of the tune, I took a in. https://www.youtube.com/
MD: You have some cool arrangements solo, and it was “first take, only take!” I watch?v=DiQjBJF9Jn0. Everyone will
of a couple of R&B classics on this record had intended to do a couple then “pick see, no punches. Being in the moment
as well. and slice” as many do, but this just flowed and letting the emotion take you is what
PP: Yes, a track that’s received lots of naturally in context, so what you hear is it’s all about.
airplay on smooth jazz radio is our cover what went down, with no edits. When PP: So many of the great studio
of “It Knocks Me Off My Feet,” which you start thinking about things you play drummers back in the 70’s like Bernard
is one of my favorite Stevie Wonder a little bit more mechanically, you aren’t Purdie, Chris Parker, and Gadd were
ballads. We also do a cool version of in the moment, and you can get in your totally in the moment when they
Earth Wind and Fire’s “Runnin’.” That band own way. I’m really happy with that solo recorded. Sure, they punched in one
was in heavy rotation on my record because what came out, came out. or two things, but the initial tracking
player at an early age. That is a track MD: We have included a transcription sessions had all of that guttural emotion
that I always loved, it was one of the of the solo, as well as the actual video and feeling because they were carving
first times that I ever heard a samba, clip from the Power Station, with out great parts for the song from a
Lloyd Bishop

Modern Drummer February 2023 23

 musical, emotional place. it all in. record include bassist Scott Ambush
MD: No one ever really talks about MD: Putting Steely Dan’s “Black Cow” on (Spyro Gyra,) on a bunch of tracks, David
Earth, Wind, and Fire as much as they your record included another New Jersey Cook played keyboards. He is Taylor
should. The stuff with two drummers musician in Donald Fagen. Swift’s musical director and is a very
was amazing, Fred White had a such a PP: Oh yeah, people forget he’s from versatile musician. Guitarist B.D. Lenz
nice pocket, and their early records are New Jersey. I’ve always dug “Black is also on it, as well as Steve Jankowski,
pretty experimental, and actually sound Cow” because of the drumming of Paul who played trumpet and did some
like Weather Report at times. What was it Humphrey, it was very understated. I arrangements, and Tom Timko played
about them that attracted you? decided to put a little more of a swing tenor and soprano sax. Plinky Giglio and
PP: Like you said, Earth Wind & Fire Faces to it. Those backing vocals from the I mixed the record here in Jersey. I think,
is like a fusion record. For songwriting, original lent themselves perfectly to overall, the drumming on the record is a
lyrical content, and the emotion on that horn arrangements. We had to make real good snapshot of what I do musically.
record, it’s one of my favorites. That thick, some choices because there are horns MD: What gear did you use on the record,
“thuddy” drum sound was quintessential on the original, so we had to decide (in and how did you select what kit and snare
70’s to me. Growing up listening to the arrangement) who was going to would go with each track?
the Beatles; lyrics and lyrical content play what. But then I decided to have PP: I’ve been a Ludwig artist for many
was always really important to me. The (guitarist) Oz Noy play the melody and he years and love the variety of woods I can
spiritual and emotional lyrics combined just sings on the track. He really took the choose from. And Ludwig snares are THE
with the deep pocket makes listening to melody and made it his own. snares! I used two different Ludwig kits
EW&F a musically uplifting experience. MD: You mentioned the track, “Asbury set up across from each other. They were
MD: You have mentioned New Jersey a Daze”, and it can’t get more Jersey than a Legacy Mahogany kit with 10”, 12” toms,
14” floor, with a 14x22 kick for a more

The grooves that the late great Tony “contemporary” sound. I used Evans Clear
EC2 heads on those drums. Then I had a

Thompson and Bernard Edwards

Club Date Downbeat series kit with 12”
tom, 14” floor, 14x20 kick for a thicker,

played with Chic are so inspiring and

vintage sound. Those had Evans Coated
UV2 heads. I had a coated Emad on both
kits. I used a variety of Ludwig snares from
so classic, they did so much for popular a Black Beauty, Copperphonic, Acrolite, to
a 60s Supraphonic, a Legacy Mahogany
music at that time, and most of it was snare, and a re-issue Jazzfest. I also used a
6x13” side snare for a little “pop.”
cut at The Power Station. I’m also a Zildjian artist and used a
variety of timbres and sounds. As you
may know, I designed the 21” Zildjian
K Custom Organic Ride, which I think
few times, and the New Jersey musical that, featuring yet another Jersey-ite, John it’s one of Zildjian’s most versatile ride
tradition never gets talked about. What Popper. cymbals. That’s on half of this record, I
have you learned from being a New PP: Absolutely! I wanted to write my also used the 20” and 18” Avedis cymbals
Jersey musician? own homage to that great town, having that I had used on the Abbey Road record,
PP: Where do I start? Talk about versatility, played many shows at The Stone Pony. It’s because they have a little bit more wash.
New Jersey has it all in our musical my summer beach hang too! John played I also used a 16” K Dark Crash and an
tradition: Sinatra to Frankie Valli, George a killin’ solo. I wanted this tune to bring 18” Special Dry Crash. My hi hats are a
Clinton, Bon Jovi, Queen Latifah, Naughty you “down the shore” with me. Smell the mashup of a 14” Mastersound bottom
By Nature, Whitney, Kool and the Gang, sausage and peppers and hear the people with a thin Kerope top. Right now, I am
Count Basie, Sarah Vaughn, Celia Cruz, on the boardwalk. It’s a feel-good jam. It’s working with Zildjian on a 19” Organic
all the jazz and big band musicians, got a bit of “lilt” (half swing/half straight) Crash Ride. That would be a follow up to
Southside Johnny and The Asbury Jukes, feel to it. It puts you in that “Jersey shore” the 21” K Custom Organic Ride. In terms
and of course Bruce Springsteen. There vibe…. (but without Snooki!) Felicia Collins of sticks, I’ve recently switched over to
really isn’t one “Jersey Sound,” it’s just too took the lead guitar spot on this one, and endorsing Vic Firth and I’m using the
diverse. New Jersey is a real melting pot she brings so much flavor, groove, and X55A.
of culture and music. It’s an attitude for power when she plays. MD: Now that you have done Abbey Road
sure. But I was exposed to so much great MD: Who are some of the core members Sessions and The Power Station Sessions
music through living here in Jersey, and I of the band on the record other than the and the music that is associated with
really didn’t have to seek it out, it was all guests? each, what’s next?
right here. I just opened my ears and let PP: Some of the other musicians on the PP: Probably a full-on original record

24 Modern Drummer February 2023

 with the same band, no covers at all, but their playing AT ALL. I would love to see showing you what to play, but there is
expanding and doing original tunes. more MUSIC happening, less “dig me” not a whole lot of explanation of why we
Perhaps do an “LA” record at Sunset stuff. I hear lots of overplaying and just play something a certain way, what you
Sound, or maybe a record at Muscle using the instrument just to get “likes.” should be listening to, and providing
Shoals? I feel that you have to take the time you feedback on the tools you need to
MD: Changing gears a bit, what advice to go back and listen to the music of the perform that music authentically. For any
would you give to younger drummers past for perspective. If you have never style of music, you must have a musical
coming up in the industry today? As listened to many styles of music, be point of reference. As a drummer today,
a performer/educator who are some it shuffles, blues, swing, jazz, country, we are more aware than ever of the
drummers that you think are moving the rock, or be-bop, then you can’t really different styles of music. We have more
drummers today that are more respectful
to those styles than we ever have, and
that’s good. Lots of drummers are trying
to play other genres, which is wonderful.
However, as a drummer the only way to
really play any genre authentically is visit
the music first. That is the meaning of the
Big Rhythm Band, perform various genres
with perspective and authenticity.
I am always inspired by other
drummers, watching what they are doing,
and hearing the music they are playing.
Guys like Calvin Rodgers, Nate Smith,
J-Rod Sullivan, Mark Giuliana, Raghav
Mehrotra. Then there are legends like
Peter Erskine, Ringo, Steve Smith, Gadd,
Garibaldi, Brian Blade, Gavin Harrison…
There are just so many great, inspiring
drummers.
MD: You’ve designed a few products that
are also popular in the drum community.
PP: I designed the P4 Practice Pad that’s
exclusively distributed by Drumeo and
available on their website or on Amazon.
It’s the most unique practice pad on the
market with three different levels and four
different playing surfaces. Then there’s
also a product available on my website
patpdrummer.com called the Practice
Station, which is a “practice organizer”
that holds a practice pad, a metronome,
Lloyd Bishop

sticks, there’s a cupholder as well as a

music stand. It sits in a snare basket. Of
course, there’s the K Custom Organic Ride.
MD: Having been in the industry for a
while now, can you talk about achieving
longevity in a music and drumming
career?
art-form forward? authentically play that music and “come PP: You have to continually play, work,
PP: Without trying to overstate what from that (musical) place.” No book is teach (if you are into it,) practice, meet
would seem to be obvious, playing the going to teach you how to play any music people, develop relationships, and keep
drums is so much more than technique. authentically. You must put the time in repeating that process. Truthfully, I don’t
You can hear a lot of excellent young and listen to the music first. That’s where I even know if people are really thinking
drummers on Instagram with blazing started…and still do. of drumming as a career much anymore,
chops and technique, but I also hear That’s a real shortcoming in today’s it seems like a lot of people are just into
many drummers without musicality, with musical and drumming education, in making videos, which is fine.
a lot of bashing and not a lot of space in my opinion. There are a lot of people My question is, how many people are

Modern Drummer February 2023 25

 actually monetizing to the point where To me, that fleeting popularity isn’t up on technology and your gear. Always
they are actually “making a living?” what a career is about. A career is about remember, you only get one chance to
The good thing about social media developing and nurturing relationships. make a first impression, so be ready to
is you get to see and hear drummers In anything that you choose to do, not shoot your shot, play for the music, and
play on videos, and the bad thing just music, opportunities are earned not let the chips fall.
about social media is that you get to only through how well you do your job, MD: We look forward to seeing what’s
see and hear drummers JUST playing and in this case, that means your playing, next on the horizon.
VIDEO SOLOS! I would like to see more but by how you treat people and your PP: Thanks, Mark, I’m honored to be
drummers making and creating music “workability” as a person. If people like featured in MD after reading about all my
and interacting with others more in a what you do, and want to hire you to do heroes over the years.
live setting. Young musicians have to that, they will.
create an environment for themselves to In this industry persistence and Pat Petrillo endorses: Ludwig Drums,
meet other musicians and create music, consistency are really important. I have Zildjian Cymbals, Evans Drumheads,
that’s where the rubber meets the road. always tried to be a positive influence Vic Firth Drumsticks, Earthworks
The controlled environment of playing in the industry, creating educational Microphones.
to a track or soloing on Instagram or material, doing clinics (although that’s Follow Pat:
YouTube is not the same as playing not as popular anymore,) doing various INSTAGRAM @patpdrummer
with other musicians. That’s where YOU sessions, playing Broadway, and just Web: www.patpdrummer.com
have to drive the bus, no pre-recorded being ready for any and all opportunities. Ludwig: https://artists.ludwig-musser.
tracks. That’s where the opportunities for I think most drummers carve a career com/pat-petrillo
growth and career expansion take place, out of playing/touring with an artist or Zildjian: https://zildjian.com/pat-
live and in person. being lucky enough to be in a band that petrillo.html
I have always tried to be a student of can tour and have a great following, and Vic Firth: https://vicfirth.zildjian.com/
my craft. That’s different than making a then teaching at some level. I think you pat-petrillo-vf.html
couple of videos and throwing them out should be a good person to hang with, Check out Pat‘s drummer profile
there. There is a lot of instant gratification always hone your craft, keep changing page, at moderndrummer.com
going on today, and that doesn’t last. lanes, and always keep creating. Keep

26 Modern Drummer February 2023

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Modern Drummer February 2023 27

 PARAMORE’S

ZAC
FARRO Always Evolving
Story by Danny Laverde Photos by Alex Kluft

D
rummer Zac Farro was 16 years old
when Paramore’s second album
Riot! was released. Shortly after the
release of their next record, Brand New Eyes,
Zac went out on his own. He left the band
in 2010, marking the end of a certain era for
Paramore. In 2016, Zac rejoined the band
with a revamped sound to record the album
After Laughter. Paramore (with Zac Farro back
behind the kit) was reclaiming their musical
presence, and introducing a refreshingly
familiar, but completely new, sound to the
music world.
Today, This Is Why is Paramore’s brand-new
album, it is reminiscent of After Laughter
and echoes the band’s earlier sound. Zac
Farro is once again paving the way for
Paramore’s authentic new musical style, and
he is cementing his place as one of the best
modern-day drummers in alternative rock.

28 Modern Drummer February 2023

 Alex Solca

Modern Drummer February 2023 29

 MD: You have a very distinctive for me. ZF: My four on the floor bass drum notes
drumming style, and it’s evident in all of MD: You mentioned JD Beck and how were “flamming” on every single hit, and
your work. What influences have inspired impressive his skills are. Have you tried my velocity was off. The other thing was
the way you approach drumming? to improve on your drumming abilities that my right hand was overpowering
ZF: Early on, I was really inspired by in recent years? my left. When I’d go around the kit for
friends around town that were in local ZF: We spent the whole year of 2022 in a fill, by the end of the fill my left hand
rock bands. I went to a small private LA making the new record. I got bored would fall off substantially. To this day,
school with a lot of other musicians. I trying to find something on Spotify to flamming a kick and snare is the bane of
think that was the reason we all got into listen to on the way to the studio every my existence. Those are two things I am
the same sort of music. Kellii Scott from day. So I would tune into the radio still very conscious of in my playing.
Failure, Zach Lind from Jimmy Eat World, station KJAZZ 88.1 in LA, I just started When you’re between the ages of 13
and Dave Grohl, those guys were all a delving really deep into jazz. That’s why I
huge influence. For me, it was always love JD Beck’s drumming. I even started
about the drummers that played “songs.” toying with the idea of taking some
It wasn’t until later that I realized how jazz drum lessons. However, I thought
amazing it is when somebody has insane that I couldn’t do that at that moment
chops or is technically really good. I because I’m so full-on in the rock world.
was never really drawn to that as a kid. However, after this record cycle, I’ll
I have always been more of a melodic probably try to get some lessons in a
drummer, somebody that played the certain musical genre or territory that I’m
song. In my twenties I started delving not super familiar with, because I always
into the Beatles, that is when I realized love learning.
that Ringo is the ultimate version of When we did the second Paramore
that kind of drummer. At that time, we record Riot! the producer encouraged
were all into heavier music like hardcore me to go take lessons again. I thought,
and metal. It was funny because our “Am I not good enough?” I was sort of
band was not hardcore or metal, we offended. But then I did it, and I realized,
were playing Emo rock, but we were still there’s still so much to learn. There were
pulling from things that I hadn’t
those heavier brushed up on in a
influences. On while. Whether it’s
the Warped It wasn’t until later playing rudiments
Tour, we just or just learning time
loved to go see that I realized how signatures, I don’t
the hardcore think it should be a
and metal amazing it is when blow to anybody’s
bands because ego to take lessons.
we related to somebody has At first, I felt sort of
that energy. bummed about it,
Most people insane chops or is but now I look back
just wanna go and think it was
smash their
drums and go
technically really super helpful. Today,
I’m doing the Purdie
nuts. But I will
always gravitate
good. I was never shuffle in sound
check. I really like
towards
someone who
really drawn to that practicing that beat.
My goal is to play it
is serving
the song
as a kid. as fast as I can. That’s
probably the extent
and playing of broadening my
melodically and drum sphere at this
musically. Today you see drummers like point. I am just sticking to classic rock
JD Beck who is more impressive than drumming and playing our music, which
just playing to the song. But I think the is not strictly rock.
melodic sensibility of the kind of records MD: What aspects of your drumming
we all gravitated towards when we grew have you seen improvements in since
up, was a huge musical steppingstone taking those lessons?

30 Modern Drummer February 2023

and 16, those are three pivotal years there’s always room to grow. There’s and see what comes out. It’s not like
when you’re playing a bunch. You’re always a musical genre that you can tap we go in and say let’s make a hair metal
so impressionable. Paramore had sold into if you’re not familiar with it. record. There’s a Paramore sound that
out our first headlining tour before we MD: How did you approach the we stick to and kind of orbit around.
did Riot! There was a bunch of stuff drumming for the new album This Is After Laughter didn’t really touch on
that I thought I had under my belt, but Why? It’s incredibly interesting because any aggression. It was more of a funky
when the rubber hit the road, I had you’re bringing a lot of After Laughter Afrobeat-influenced sound. After we
some stuff to learn. I feel like you never vibes to it. However, you’re also did After Laughter, I remember thinking,
stop learning. Even Tony Williams was returning to your roots and rocking that “Wow, that was a lot of 16th notes on the
learning stuff up until the point he was strong alternative sound. hi hat.” But I wasn’t dripping with sweat
no longer with us. I’m 32 now, I know ZF: With every album, we just go in whenever we were finished with takes.

Modern Drummer February 2023 31

 When I was a kid, that would have been a window can be when the tempo is a bit Vistalites before, but Carlos (our producer)
full workout. faster. It’s like driving fast and you can had a seventies orange Bonham Vistalite
When we recorded the new single only make a few lane changes. kit with the same sizes and everything.
called “The News,” I felt a feeling that I MD: What drums and cymbals are you Like I said, I was a little apprehensive, but
hadn’t had in a long time, especially on a endorsing now? Joe Mullen our percussionist is also my
recording. “The News” was a whole take. ZF: I had been with both Gretsch and tech. He teched on the record, he can
It had very minimal editing because I Zildjian for a while, but I made a change make anything sound good. I’d be super
wanted it to have the energy and the to Ludwig and Istanbul Agop. We started lost without him. It was so surprising
push and pull of actually playing it live. using a lot of Istanbul Agop cymbals on how responsive and diverse the Vistalites
That’s one thing I think people lose in This Is Why, and I just fell in love with were, especially when we put the coated
recordings these days, that energy of just their cymbals. Scott Liken from Istanbul
playing the whole time and the push and Agop is a friend of ours and our producer,
pull of a person playing something that’s Carlos de La Garza. Every once in a
not computerized. I really like to play a while, Scott would pop into the studio
full take all the way down. If I screw up on because he only lived about 15 minutes
the bridge or something, I start it over. We away. Scott just showed up and said, “I
did “The News” and “This Is Why” later in think you’d really dig the Agop Xist and
the recording process. I felt “This Is Why” Traditional.” He brought them by, and I
was very in my wheelhouse. Over the last just started trying new cymbals. I’d never
five years I have been super influenced really tried stuff out that way. In the past
by the band CAN. I was listening to them I just went with one thing. I started using
when we were making that song, and some dryer, more vintage-sounding
that’s why I put cymbals on the record.
a piccolo on the Then live, I went with
side. Then, I went more traditional
from the piccolo sounding cymbals.
to the main snare, It was so It’s really cool to be
which was a Black able to play a cymbal
Beauty. surprising how instead of just going
MD: I particularly to soundcheck and
liked the responsive and seeing if it works. That
pre-chorus
breakdown diverse the feels a little backwards.
It’s been super fun
before the second
chorus on “This Vistalites were, finding new sounds.
The guys at Istanbul
Is Why.” How did
you come up with
especially when Agop are great, and
Ludwig has also been
that beat?
ZF: I don’t know
we put the coated super friendly, super
helpful, and just super
how I came with
that. I think it
heads on them. cool.
MD: You’re using
came from doing Ludwig Vistalites now,
some production can you explain how
on some other that happened?
projects. I produced my own record called ZF: Yes, in the past I always played a
Natural Disguise, for my HalfNoise project. Gretsch Broadcaster kit. They are great
Right after that, my friend Becca Mancari drums, but I haven’t ever played a kit live
from Nashville asked me to produce her that I’d liked more than the Vistalites.
record. I learned a lot about listening Every night I’m just excited to sit down
from the standpoint of a song from the and play. I didn’t want to go with the
production of those records. orange color because that’s Mr. Bonham’s
The drumming on This Is Why is fusing trademark. I love yellow so I went with
the worlds of “young me” and “old me.” yellow.
There’s something that happens when For the recording, I was a little hesitant
you’re playing 16th notes and you’re to use them. “The News” was the first song
trying to keep the velocity and the on the record that we used the Vistalites.
intensity up. It’s amazing how small the I’d never really recorded or even played

32 Modern Drummer February 2023

heads on them. Joe even told me he was and saw that everything was matching see ya!” But everybody I’ve ever worked
surprised by how responsive the kit was. we thought it looked cool. It looked great with at Istanbul Agop and Ludwig have
That’s what kind of changed my mind. because we use a lot of projections on been super nice, and it’s been cool to
Vistalites are a lot more versatile than I stage. The drums would almost change refresh the team and make some new
thought. colors under the lights. It just looked relationships going forward. Especially
Then, we got the C&C custom really rad live. because there’s a lot of touring in 2023.
percussion setup made to match my kit. Sometimes endorsements feel like MD: You’re even directing some of
Joe got that made from C&C because transactions at Guitar Center. It’s like, Paramore’s videos now. For the single
Ludwig doesn’t do anything like that. “What do you need? Give me the order.” “This Is Why” you got the chance to work
When we first walked out to soundcheck And you’re kind of like, “All right, thanks, with Brendan Yates who is the singer of

Modern Drummer February 2023 33

 Turnstile. How did you approach the
creative process involving the video,
since both of you come from a directing
background?
ZF: I probably could have had a little bit
more say, but I wanted to see what he
could do. He’s super talented and we
really let him take the reins. He did such a
great job. During the making of our new
record Hayley said, “Zac, check out these
Turnstile videos, I know you produce and
direct and so does Brendan. You’re gonna
love them, they’re super rad.” We checked
them out and I thought they were super
cool. They really caught the vibe of the
band, but they were elevated, and the
cinematography was amazing.
I think the coolest thing was, we all
went and saw Turnstile do a show, and
then two days later we did the video
with Brendan. It’s different when you
catch someone’s vibe, and you connect
to their vision, their crowd interaction,
and their performance. I’d recommend
that to anybody. If you’re going to work
with somebody, go see their show. See
what they do, don’t just interview them,
get to know them. It brings out the best
in everybody and you end up rooting for
each other.
MD: How does the writing process work
with Paramore? Is it split up or does one
person do most of the composing?
ZF: The process kind of changes on every
record. This record is unique because the
band wrote (pretty much) everything
together. Hayley always writes the
lyrics and the melodies. Because Taylor,
Hayley, and I are the main members in
the band now, we’re kind of constructing
everything together, everybody is in
the same room. Back in the day when
my brother was in the band, he would
primarily write all the stuff with Hayley
and Taylor. The other guitar player, (who
is now our main guitar player,) would
help every once in a while. Now, we all
have a hand in the production because
we’ve all done our own projects and our
ideas are more welcomed. That was the
vibe for this record, and that was really
cool. Sometimes those situations don’t
really work out because there are too
many cooks in the kitchen. Or sometimes
people just don’t have the same kind of
ideas. If I want something to rock harder
and you don’t, what are we supposed to

34 Modern Drummer February 2023

do? This time around it was everything. We want everybody to be we played “Misery Business,” which is
pretty damn effortless. We’re stoked and love what they’re playing and one of our older classic songs. I thought
all pretty much on the same feel super proud of what they added. people were going to just storm the stage
page, which is kind of rare. MD: When you left the group back in during “Misery Business.” The Paramore
It was a super great team 2010, the band continued without you fans have been there for all of it and
because whenever somebody and released a self-titled album. What did that’s a really cool feeling. But we’re not
would run out of ideas, the you think about the parts when hearing just playing our hits now, we still want
other two people would step them and how do you feel about playing to grow. We still want to morph, evolve,
in, and that kept the train those parts since you have come back? change, and be inspired.
moving. I had never really ZF: Ilan Rubin did such a great job on that MD: The journey doesn’t look like it’s
been a part of the writing record. We’re similar in some ways, but we going to stop anytime soon. 2023 is
process from start to finish. I are very different drummers. When I hear looking like it will be a huge year for

“Where would Zeppelin be without Bonham?

Where would the Beatles be without Ringo?
Where would Nirvana be without Grohl?
There are all these pivotal characters,
that’s really what I want to bring to this band.

was always “only” doing the that record, everything’s very diligent Paramore. You guys are headlining an
drum parts. It’s cool to view and precise. Ilan has reached a certain arena tour this year.
things through a different status through playing with Nine Inch ZF: I am so thankful. It’s kind of hard to
lens. I even saw drumming Nails (and everybody else he plays with) believe. Two nights at Madison Square
differently. Because I was for a reason, because he’s an unbelievable Garden, and two nights at the LA Forum
there from the origin of the drummer. When I was out of the band, that are already sold out. It doesn’t feel
song, I wanted the song to be it was because I chose to leave. It was “real,” but in a good way. I think my
the most important thing. I cool to see who they wanted to work playing is evolving. I’m really putting the
didn’t want to get in the way with after we built this thing together. I effort in. When I was a kid, I didn’t really
of this keyboard part or an definitely feel like Ilan knocked it out of care about a band’s drummer. But as I got
important guitar line. It was the park on that record. I think he did a older, I thought, “Where would Zeppelin
a really cool experience and tremendous job. be without Bonham? Where would the
I hope we follow that every But it’s cool to jump back in and have Beatles be without Ringo? Where would
time we write from now on. the chance to keep growing with the Nirvana be without Grohl? There are all
MD: It sounds like a certain band. I always think of how I can evolve these pivotal characters, that’s really what
magic happens when you are with the band. How do I change, how do I want to bring to this band. Now I have
all working together. I get better? I have done that since I was a second chance to come back and relive
ZF: Yes, it’s because you feel a kid. I always wanted to sound different the journey. I’m excited to just give it my
connected. There are a lot on every album, even though it probably all and try to just keep getting better. I’m
of bands where the singer didn’t sound all that different. excited to play the new songs because
will come in and just sing, MD: Alternative Rock music seems to be it’s a new era for the band. I can’t wait
or the guitar player comes making a huge comeback. Have you guys for people to hear the new stuff. We are
in and just adds a couple of felt that you’ve gotten a wave of new fans stoked about it!
riffs or whatever. We’ve just alongside the old ones?
never been a band like that. ZF: When we played the When We Were Check out Zac‘s drummer profile
page, at moderndrummer.com
We’ve always been hands Young Fest the reaction to our new single
on, and we really care about “This Is Why” was almost as big as when

Modern Drummer February 2023 35

Brann Dailor
Jimmy Hubbard

36 Modern Drummer February 2023

Mastodon’s
Modern Metal Master
By Mark Griffith

B rann Dailor is an interesting

drummer. He was brought
up around musicians, and it
wasn’t a question of if he was
going to play music. It was a
question of what instrument
would he choose to play? His
interest was piqued in the
drums around 4 or 5 years
old. His Uncle Mark played
in a band called Cinnamon
Road and his mom’s boyfriend
played drums too. The die
was set. Brann’s influences
range from Mikkey Dee to
Billy Cobham, and from Bill
Ward to Sean Reinhart. He
likes to listen to 80’s pop
music from India and Turkey,
and John Zorn. He sings very
well, and (of course) he is an
amazing drummer. He has
also been in more bands
than I can even remember:
Maniacal Rage, Evisceration,
Lethargy, Gaylord, Today is the
Day, Arcadea, and of course
Mastodon. In fact, those
Alex Solca

bands and his evolution as a

drummer is why I wanted to
talk to Brann.

Modern Drummer February 2023 37

 BD: I remember always wanting to go one lesson at the Hochstein School (in snares or a bottom head. The toms were
to my grandparents’ house because Rochester.) There were two drum sets held on with duct tape. But I loved that
there were drums there. My Uncle would in a room, and as soon as I walked in, kit, it was the coolest kit in the world.
put me behind the kit. He had a record I began playing. The teacher came in Every day I would come home from
player close by with a bunch of records and put me on a pad playing RLRL for school and go up into the attic and play
by Deep Purple, Rainbow, Nazareth, an hour. That was boring, and it felt like drums. While all my friends were playing
and Black Sabbath. He would put on a school (which I hated.) Looking back, I video games, I was busy playing the
record, put the headphones on me, and probably wasn’t ready for lessons at that drums. When I was 13, my mom got me a
tell me to play along. I could actually point, I was only seven and too young white Pearl kit, because I had shown her
keep a beat, so he was impressed. to comprehend that I needed to learn that even with my very limited resources,
Everyone in my family wanted to hear the fundamentals. But that really sucked I was progressing as a drummer. Having
me play, so that was quite validating. You all the fun out of it for me. I think at that kit really jumpstarted my desire to
have to have cool parents if you want to that point the drums were my preferred really dig in and play drums. That’s when
play the drums, because they are loud toy, I wasn’t thinking about playing I started to own the moniker of being
and there’s no volume knob. My mom music, being in a band, or a career in “A Drummer!” But the problem was I
and dad were really encouraging. drumming, I just wanted to have fun. didn’t know anyone else who played an
MD: Did your uncle teach you anything MD: I think there is an important lesson instrument.
about playing? in there for parents and aspiring drum MD: There are many more “lessons” in
BD: I painted an entire fence at his house teachers. that answer as well. How long was it
once, in exchange he gave me one drum BD: At that point my grandparents until you formed your first band?
lesson, that taught me “something.” got divorced, and we moved into their BD: Not too long. I was 13 or 14 and in
After that I remember playing along to house. They had left an old Rogers Sky eighth grade. I knew some other kids
a Police song in my dad’s car, and him Blue Ripple kit there, the set had two who played instruments, and we were all
being sort of impressed. He asked me cinder blocks for legs, the hi hat didn’t into Metallica and Slayer. At that point in
if I wanted to take lessons and I took have a clutch, the snare drum had no life the big question is whether you were
Jimmy Hubbard

38 Modern Drummer February 2023

going to play sports or music?
My first band was called Maniacal
Rage, and we played bad versions
of “For Whom the Bell Tolls” and
stuff like that. Eventually I moved
to New York City to live with my
dad, and everything as far as
drumming was concerned sort of
stopped. My dad had heard tapes
of my playing, and he really wanted
me to continue. I tried to join the
Drummer Collective, but it was too
expensive. You had to be pretty
loaded to afford a rehearsal space in
NYC, because you couldn’t practice
drums in an apartment. I don’t know
(even today) how people do it. I
can remember feeling like my grip
on playing the drums was slipping
Jimmy Hubbard

away. I moved back to Rochester

when I was 17 to help my mom
out financially. When I got there,
the first order of business was (the
band) Evisceration.
Evisceration was fairly
straightforward death metal. The leader
Every day I would come the influence of all of those bands (Mr.
Bungle, Dead Can Dance, Cocteau
was into gore and serial killers and that
whole scene which was popular around
home from school and Twins, King Diamond, Mercyful Fate)
into Lethargy. We were pretty successful
that time. Cannibal Corpse, who were
still living in Buffalo, for example, was a
go up into the attic and around Rochester.
MD: How did Lethargy turn into
big influence. Our music was reminiscent play drums. While all Gaylord?
of the earlier Death records like Spiritual BD: They were happening
Healing. At the time I was just figuring my friends were playing simultaneously. Those two guys were
out how to play in a band and be in a
video games, I was busy
big Lethargy fans, and they wanted me
band with other people. The band was to play drums in their band, so I did.
cool, but it fizzled, and I really wanted
to do something else musically. I was playing the drums. Guitarist Corey Adams was really into
funk and some different music, and that
listening to Mr. Bungle and John Zorn at band let me explore and play a whole
the time, and Evisceration seemed a little of the metal drummers talk about Zorn. different style of drumming. I think for
pedestrian. BD: The early 90’s were a pretty cool time any musician it’s important to jam with
MD: How did you get into John Zorn? for music, there was so much diversity, as many people as possible, but to also
BD: I had a copy of John Zorn Naked but metal was a “bad word” at the time. I tap into as many different styles of music
City, and it was just weird-crazy-cool. was into all sorts of stuff. I was listening as possible.
A girl gave me a copy of the first Mr. to Dead Can Dance and Cocteau Twins At that point in time, I had discovered
Bungle record. That record blew my at the same time that I was listening to Peter Gabriel’s Real World Records
mind, and really changed my musical King Diamond and Mercyful Fate. label. I had also bought a copy of Peter
trajectory. I thought it was the most MD: The next band that you joined Gabriel’s record called Passion Sources.
amazing thing ever. I read the liner notes was Lethargy, what was the difference Gabriel had done the soundtrack to the
to learn that John Zorn had produced between Evisceration and Lethargy? Last Temptation of Christ, and I loved
and was playing saxophone on it, from BD: There was a popular death metal that soundtrack. But the Passion Sources
there I just started looking for John Zorn band in Rochester called Matricore. record was his musical inspiration for
Masada records at Tower Records. Zorn’s Their guitar player was a guy named the soundtrack. It was almost like he
music led me to Bill Laswell, his music Eric Burke, he had a song he wanted me had gone out and recorded music from
led me to Material, and that led to my to play drums on, so we got together the middle of nowhere, in the desert,
fascination with world music. and jammed. He was a very technical and in the jungles. It was music that was
MD: I can see how metal and John Zorn guitarist and a very interesting style performed without any consideration to
could go together, but I never hear any that I fell in love with. We tried to fold fame and fortune.

Modern Drummer February 2023 39

 I had always been attracted to the busy style of playing guitar. I just started Austin from Today is the Day. They
sound of the Arabic scale, Turkish music, following him by playing what he played invited me to audition for the band, a
and various Middle Eastern music. I really on my toms. He was all over the place, friend of mine with a Volkswagen bus
like to listen to 80’s pop music from India and I just went right along with him. volunteered to drive me there. I got the
and Turkey. Their recordings are always MD: How does the band Today is the Day gig, I got Bill Kelliher to play bass for the
a little distorted, and they are made fit into your whole evolution? band (Kelliher is now the guitarist for
without all of the modern bells and BD: Lethargy was sputtering a bit, I was Mastodon.) We wrote and recorded In
whistles, that yields some interesting 22 and all my friends were making their the Eyes of God for Relapse Records in
sound palettes, and crazy keyboard moves. I was working some little jobs, about a month, and we went on tour.
sounds. There was a compilation called and Eric got a job at Kodak, so he was That was the first time that there seemed
Yalla: Hit List Egypt that I loved! During all set. We had sent a demo to a bunch like a chance that I could play the drums
that entire period of my life, I was of record companies, and there was no and be in a band as a career. Of course,
devouring any world music that I could interest. The reason there was no interest we weren’t making any money and we
find. I was walking into record stores and was because a band gets signed because were living in a recording studio. But I
making a beeline for the World Music the band has already gone out and laid saw the possibilities.
section. That Arabic scale sound comes the groundwork. We hadn’t done that, I MD: How did your experience in
up all of the time in Mastodon music, know that now. We were driving our van Today is the Day lead to the creation of
especially in the riffs that I write. down to NJ to do a couple of shows, and Mastodon?
I love drums and drumming, but staying in the Holmdel Motor Lodge, BD: Steve was married and lived with
playing drums isn’t always the focal and we thought we were “on tour.” But his wife. Bill and I lived at the studio,

I think for any musician

it’s important to jam
with as many people as
possible, but to also tap
into as many different
styles of music as
possible.

and we had a lot of down time. Bill was

actually a guitarist who was just playing
bass in Today is the Day. Our focus was
Today is the Day, but in our downtime,
we were constantly putting together
our own songs and writing other music.
The band sort of blew up and things got
Jimmy Hubbard

unfriendly in the middle of a European

tour, and Bill and I decided that it would
be best if we started something of
our own. I thought it might be a step
backwards to move back to Rochester,
and Bill wanted to move to Atlanta with
his girlfriend, so we moved to Atlanta.
point for me. Because I have a busier we weren’t, we were just partying. We met Brent [Hinds] within a couple
approach to drums, people don’t always Then my friend Dave Witte, who of weeks and he already knew Troy
see that for me it’s really about the song. plays drums for Municipal Waste and [Sanders]. We jammed for a bit, and we
I blame my busier style of drumming on has played drums for millions of bands wrote two or three songs in that first day.
Eric Burke of Lethargy. We didn’t have a in the past, called me to tell me that I knew we had something special.
bassist in that band, and he had a very he was recommending me to Steve We were taking that Thin Lizzy dual

40 Modern Drummer February 2023

guitar attack and repurposing it and we Remains, who sounded like Ripping it take Mastodon to really take off?
were mixing that with those Melvins, Corpse. I was really tracing the evolution BD: Five years, my five-year plan worked
Neurosis, Voivod chords. On top of all of of the New Jersey bizzaro metal scene. I out. We formed in 2000, and by 2005 we
that, we were all listening to a lot of prog found that scene had its roots in bands were playing Ozzfest, we had recorded
like Yes, King Crimson, and early Genesis, like Atheist, Cynic, Death’s Human, early Leviathan, toured with Slayer and
and we all liked each other. I felt that we Meshuggah, and maybe even that Slipknot, we had management, and
were going to have to put in five years Fredrik Thorendal record Sol Niger Within were talking to major labels.
of constant and really hard work. At that with drummer Morgan Agren. MD: Have you always sung? You are a
point all of the prog bands that were MD: It sounds like you were really doing very good singer, and there still aren’t
around were very clean and pristine. We your “musical homework.” How long did many singing drummers around?
Jimmy Hubbard

wanted to utilize those prog templates,

but we wanted it to sound heavy, nasty, There is nothing wrong BD: From the beginning I would go in
and lay down vocal templates for Troy or
and dirty.
MD: At the beginning were you guys on with dialing it back a Brent. I didn’t sing on record until 2009,
when we did Crack the Skye. For the song
the same scene as Dillinger Escape Plan
with Chris Pennie, and Candiria with Ken
notch, recordings are “Oblivion” I went in and sang a template
for Troy, and Brent really liked the way
Schalk? It sounds like you were all doing
similar things.
filled with compromise. that I sang it. Brendan O’ Brien didn’t
want me to sing. I remember him saying,
BD: We played with both of them in
Today is the Day a bunch. Candiria
I always ask for input, if “The last thing that I want, is for the
first vocal that is heard on this album to
and Ken were amazing, and Chris and
Dillinger were insanely good. I think
there is something that come from the drummer.” And I agreed.
We got real close on that tune with Troy
we were all coming from basically the
same place musically. I always thought
I feel strongly about, I’ll singing. Brent liked my version, and Troy
was cool with it, so Brendan reluctantly
Dillinger was a little derivative of Human fight for it... agreed, and I sang it.

Modern Drummer February 2023 41

 A lot of our vocals are very percussive listen to our band because of the crazy to miss a lot of that ear candy. I loved
in the way that they sit over a riff. When I drumming that is happening. the vocals, but I thought releasing the
sing, I think of the vocals as another drum. MD: Can you remember any specific instrumental version was a cool idea.
I know that a specific syllable should be tunes when you were asked to dial it MD: Speaking of instrumentals, where
landing on the snare (for example.) back? idea the idea of doing the soundtrack to
MD: Whenever I have sung, it was always BD: There were some tunes on Crack the the film Jonah Hex come from?
hard for me to move enough air while I Skye that I had to pull things back. I had BD: Josh Homme hooked us up with
was sitting down. Did that ever give you a lot more fills in “Oblivion” at first. I had Jimmy (the director of the film.) We had
a problem? to be told at the beginning of that one to just gotten off a three-month tour with
BD: Yes, PLENTY! I don’t think I sang chill and sink into the mood of the tune. Metallica, and I was really sick. But we
very good for the first year, I had a lot Of course, a lot of that advice came from went in and watched the film, improvised,
of figuring out to do. Once I recorded Brendan O’ Brien, and when you are in the and wrote riffs to the movie. There wasn’t
“Oblivion” I had to really learn how to room with someone like that, you listen a lot of pressure for that, and we weren’t
as married to the project as we would

I play a very bastardized version of jazz-fusion have been for a Mastodon record, it
wasn’t as “precious” to us. So it felt more

and I have always been more of a hands guy than loosey-goosey.

MD: Maybe that’s why it’s so good. It is
a feet guy. possible to be too emotionally invested in
a project.
BD: Absolutely. You can get lost in trying
play and sing. I treat it as another limb to them and trust them. I learned a lot to get everything perfect.
that you are folding into the mix. It’s from him. MD: The time even felt looser on that.
polyrhythmic, and that’s how you have to MD: What else did you learn from him? BD: It was because I was also really sick
treat it. Syllables have to land in certain BD: He taught us about song structure too. I have done some of my best shows
spots, and you have to figure that out in and lyrics. He told me that I could be as when I have been deathly ill.
your mind’s eye, just like learning a new esoteric as I wanted to be in the verses, MD: So have I. It’s amazing how that
beat. And I would say that in-ears are a but when it came to the chorus, I should works, I think it’s because you are just not
must. be more personal and connect with the thinking when you are sick, you are just
MD: As I listen to your drumming on listener and bring them into the story. thinking about getting back to the hotel
Mastodon’s different records, I have heard He had me read my lyrics to him, without and going to bed. Who are some of your
your playing evolve. How do you think singing them. He always said that you favorite drummers?
your drumming has evolved with the should be able to read your lyrics aloud BD: My Uncle Mark would be first and
band? without being embarrassed. He made foremost. Mickey Dee, Nicko McBrain,
BD: I play to what is provided in the me dig deeper into myself than I really Clive Burr, I have always loved Iron
song. When we work with a producer, wanted. Maiden. Dave Lombardo, Charlie Benante,
they usually tell me to scale it back, a When I played the big fill in Tony Williams, Elvin Jones, Art Blakey, Max
lot. And maybe that’s what I need to “Quintessence” from Crack the Skye, Roach…
hear. When it comes time to record, lots Brendan also told me that was the fill MD: How did the jazz influences come to
of times I don’t sound like 100% myself. that was going to get me on the cover of you?
There is nothing wrong with dialing it Modern Drummer. And I was on the cover BD: My dad was always playing John
back a notch, recordings are filled with of Modern Drummer after that album. Coltrane A Love Supreme, and I fell in
compromise. I always ask for input, if
there is something that I feel strongly
about, I’ll fight for it, but at the end of There is some stuff on Remission that I’m not sure
the day, the song matters more than me
getting some crazy fills in there. Some of if I could even figure out and go back and play.
my favorite “drum moments” have gone
by the wayside because I didn’t want to
cloud up the vision of the song. I think MD: I love that you released Crack love with that. That led to everything
one big way that I have evolved over the the Skye without the vocals as an else. I love Miles’ Bitches Brew, Zappa
years is that I have learned how to make instrumental release along with the vocal with Bozzio, Mahavishnu Orchestra Inner
those choices. It’s a fine line, I don’t want version, why did you do that? Mounting Flame. Overall, I am some kind
to lose myself and just sit there and “meat BD: That was Nick John’s idea. He felt that of a cross between Billy Cobham and
and potato it,” I want to be me. Thankfully, there was a lot of layered ear candy on Mikkey Dee. I play a very bastardized
a lot of the producers that we have that record. However, when the vocals version of jazz-fusion and I have always
worked with know that lots of people were laid on top, people were going been more of a hands guy than a feet guy.

42 Modern Drummer February 2023

The early Sabbath records when Bill Ward the record, but I love it. He’s sort of like a inspired so many drummers to be more
playing “jazz drums” on those songs, were middle eastern Jeff Buckley. Mario from creative behind the kit. Cynic’s Focus and
also hugely important to me! Gojira sent me Tamino’s song “Intervals” a Death Human rendered the rest of my
Bill was a jazz guy, because if you few years ago, and I’ve been listening to music library obsolete for about two years.
were going to play drums in the 50s, you him ever since. I have also been listening MD: What is coming up for you and
played jazz. Rock and metal drumming to Burnt by the Sun with my friend Dave Mastodon?
didn’t exist yet. Bill was coming out of Witte playing drums, that has led me back BD: We are going to start kicking the
Krupa and the big band thing. As much to Death, Obituary and Cynic again. tires on some new Mastodon in the new
as I love a drummer like Vinnie Paul, I feel MD: Were you into Sean Reinhart’s year. I actually just put out a coffee table
that I have much more in common with drumming? book of clown drawings that I did during
someone like Bill Ward. BD: I am a HUGE fan of Sean’s playing! lockdown, it’s called Brann Dailor’s 101
A few years ago, I learned the first three The first time I saw him play, they were Clowns of the Corona Virus. I also just
Black Sabbath records front
to back for a tribute show on
Halloween. I learned songs
like “Rat Salad” and “The
Wizard” note for note. Those
tunes and drum performances
were definitely tailored for
small venues though, there is
a lot going on drum-wise in
those tunes that would get
lost in a stadium, they are all
really hard. Bill’s imagination
was on full display on those
first three Black Sabbath
records, you can hear his mind
at work. He is searching for a
cooler way to do “it.”
Then there is a slow tune
and that amazing groove on
“Snowblind.” I really try to tap
into my inner “Snowblind”
whenever I play a slow tune
like that. I actually got to have
dinner and hang with Bill for
a while, and he told me that if
he had to choose a drummer
to fill his shoes in Black
Jimmy Hubbard

Sabbath it would be me. That

was incredible to hear and
was one of the nicest things
that anybody has ever said to
me.
MD: How cool is that!
I can hear similarities between his opening for Cannibal Corpse, and Sean did a new Arcadea record with my old
improvisional approach, and your was set up sideways so you could stand friends from Gaylord, I just have to go
approach on Remission. That is a loose behind him and watch him play. That in and do the vocals, I’m really involved
record. was life changing. I went home and in this new Arcadea record, it’s going to
BD: There were a lot of happy accidents immediately started to “try” and emulate be cool. Mastodon and Gojira will be co-
on that record. And there is some stuff on his drumming. Later we got to play with headlining an extensive Mega-Monsters
Remission that I’m not sure if I could even Cynic on a festival, and I got to have my USA tour in 2023 in April and May and
figure out and go back and play. moment of telling him how great he was. then again in August and September.
MD: What music have you been listening Nobody wants to stand and listen to
to lately? someone tell them how great they are, I Check out Brann‘s drummer profile
BD: There is a singer songwriter named know I don’t. But Sean indulged me and page, at moderndrummer.com
Tamino, there isn’t much drumming on let me tell him how amazing he was. He

Modern Drummer February 2023 43

 Mark Kelso
Expect the Unexpected
By Bob Girouard

M
ark Kelso is not your typical Canadian or your
typical drummer. He doesn’t follow hockey, root
for The Toronto Maple Leafs, live on poutine, or
eat all of his meals at Tim Hortons. However, after
getting over that initial shock, you’ll find that this Toronto
resident is not only a very well-rounded musician, he’s the
drummer extraordinaire for the kick-ass band, The Jazz
Exiles. And not only does Mark Kelso lead, play drums, and
produce the band’s recordings, he also composes for the
band.
The Jazz Exiles current line-up has been together for
five years, so their sound is even tighter, punchier and
more cohesive than on the previous two recordings
(Elementals and Stealing from My Youth.) The Jazz Exiles
feature the all-star talents of Canadian bass virtuoso Rich
Brown, Cuban-born alto sax player Luis Deniz, guitar whiz
Elmer Ferrer and Jeremy Ledbetter on piano & keyboards.
These players bring Mark’s compositions to a whole new
level, and bring big smiles to the faces of their fans.
On their new album, The Dragon’s Tail, you can put
all of that Canadian politeness and gentility aside. Mark
showcases his Afro-Cuban and Brazilian influences playing
with a muscular edge complete with lightning single
and double strokes, flams, and intensity. Sounding like a
perennial combination of Carlos Vega, Steve Gadd and
Vinnie Colaiuta. Kelso is equal part groove and fire.
The secret to Kelso and The Jazz Exiles’ success is their
collective musical maturity that is sowing the seeds of
musical exploration and creativity. The band has been
nominated for two Juno Awards (the Canadian equivalent
to the Grammy’s,) and coming out of the constrictions of
the pandemic, Mark and the band expect to be mainstays
of the 2023 jazz festival circuit playing the Toronto Jazz
Fest, the Montreal Jazz Fest, and the Rochester Jazz Fest.

44 Modern Drummer February 2023

 Alex Solca
Harrison King

Modern Drummer February 2023 45

 MD: Mark, congrats on a super piece of major, influence on me. I loved all their to just being aware of the things you
work, The Dragon’s Tail. records. I kind of fashioned The Jazz can’t see. Which (to me) means always
MK: Thanks. Exiles after Weather Report, The Yellow- be aware of your surroundings, either in
MD: The opening track, “A Happy Life” is jackets, and Pat Metheny. a musical or non-musical format. I also
filled with both groove and polyrhyth- MD: With the new album, The Dragon’s perceive it as expect the unexpected.
mic combustion. I caught a YouTube Tail, you allude to “leaving something MD: You’ve backed so many marquee
version and thought it was a very behind.” Could you speak about that? artists in your career. Are there any par-
impressive track, especially the musical MK: It’s influenced by martial arts icon, ticular ones that stand out?
interplay within the band. I can hear why Bruce Lee. It was the theme from one of MK: Oh yeah. It was a dream come true
it’s the lead cut. The band is sounding his movies: The Way of The Dragon. He when I toured with Canadian pop-rocker,
somewhere between Return to Forever, talked about the dragon spinning its tail. Gino Vanelli. One of his earlier drum-
Spyro Gyra, and Weather Report. In mythology and folklore, one is more mer’s (Graham Lear,) is a dear friend who
MK: I grew up watching Spyro Gyra ev- afraid of the dragon’s claws and fire also played twelve years with Santana
ery summer at the Toronto Jazz Festival. breath. However, the tail lurks behind as after the Gino gig. And playing with Pat
Return to Forever? I was a huge Chick a deadly weapon that comes out of no- Metheny was a thrill beyond thrills. I
Corea fan. Weather Report was a major, where to strike, I suppose it’s a metaphor feel he’s the greatest living jazz guitarist.
Harrison King

46 Modern Drummer February 2023

Playing with him was over the top. He rhythmic structure of The Dragon’s Tail. being such good influences.
was very nice, with no attitude. It went Your drumming is exceptional. It’s clean, MD: Let’s talk gear. Drum-wise, are you
as good as I could have wished. It was precise, with plenty of feel, and you nev- still 100% Yamaha equipped?
pretty amazing. er over play. Looking back, drum-wise MK: Yes, here’s what I’m using at pres-
MD: Your current sidemen in Jazz Exiles what were you going for on the album? ent. My drums are red Yamaha Maple
seem like more than just sidemen. MK: I’ve been influenced by so many Hybrid’s. The sizes are 10”, 12”, 14”, 16”
They’re adding to the music with excep- musicians I’ve played with over the toms, with a 16 x 22 bass drum. All of my
tional virtuosity. years, rhythmically I get a lot of my hardware is Yamaha too. My cymbals:
MK: I hand-picked these guys. I’ve been ideas from African and Cuban

Anybody can play patterns,

playing with Rich (bassist) for about 30 drummers. I’m really on an
years, and with Jeremy (piano) for about Afro-Cuban vibe, which tends
15. Elmer (guitar) and I have played to influence me rhythmically.
together for 10 years, and Luis (sax) and
I have been playing together about 15
years. I also work with all of them in
On the album, there’s rhythms
I’ve learned from African, Bra-
zilian, and Afro-Cuban music.
but to apply it to a musical
multiple bands. They are good friends
but specifically they are
Anybody can play patterns,
but to apply it to a musical setting, and make it work
excellent musicians. I setting, and make it work
write music with them
in mind because I know
and sound good, that takes a
much higher skill set. and sound good, that takes
their abilities far exceed MD: My favorite cuts are,
their limitations. It’s a joy
to play with guys this
“Slingshot,” (a Samba vari-
ation,) “The Huntress,” the a much higher skill set.
great on every gig. Every ballad “A Moment in Time,”
musician in the band is and the adrenaline-soaked
a “leader” in their own “Serpentine Figures.”
right. MK: “The Huntress” was written specifi- are all Paiste. I am using a 16” Traditional
MD: You are a terrific cally for our guitarist, Elmer. He starts-off thin crash, 20” Bluebird ride, 10” 2002
composer, what is the slow and tender, but by the end of the splash, 22” Master’s Collection Dark Ride,
trick to writing a good song he’s ripping! “Serpentine Figures” 18” Formula 602 thin crash, and a 22”
fusion song? Melody, was a song that I wanted the guitar to Master’s Swish with a 14” inverted PST
open space for call and pick up the melody and let it just go. X Swiss Flanger on top. For heads I am
response? When you have a specific person and in- using Evans coated G1’s on toms, coated
MK: I do all the writing. dividual style to write for, it really makes G1 on snare and a coated EMAD on the
It’s kind of trial by fire. I it a lot easier to convey your musical bass drum. My sticks are Mark Kelso sig-
find some chord chang- ideas. nature series made by Headhunters.
es that I like, or a bass MD: You align your solos and play deftly MD: You mentioned singing when you
pattern or a rhythm. over the rhythm section. Your solos compose, you don’t just sing to com-
All those melodies are are crisp, clean, and innovative. What pose. I saw your video, a re-do of The
actually coming from me drummers inspired you and continue to Carpenters “Close to You” that you made
singing. Because I sing it inspire you today? for your 22nd wedding anniversary. Nice
first, I think it connects MK: My dad, Sam Kelso, was a drummer arrangement, nice playing, and nice
me to the melody in so I grew up around drums. He played singing too!
the same way that a in an Irish show band. Eventually, he MK: {Laughs} You saw that, huh? It
singer connects to a pop started to teach me. He was a big Buddy began at the beginning of Covid. I was
tune. I’m very liberal Rich fan, and in turn, I became one singing to basically entertain myself. It
with whoever plays the myself. He was so good. Watching how was nearing our anniversary date and I
melody. Everybody has cleanly Buddy played his snare drum I thought why don’t I do something cute
got a distinct melodic began thinking that he had to be some for my wife?
voice, so I really want sort of an alien. His power and velocity, MD: I’m sure you won some points with
to characterize that it was nothing short of brilliance. When it, especially since it went world-wide via
in terms of tones and I saw him live, I wanted to sound like YouTube! Everyone can watch the play-
textures. As a young kid I that. Then, I got into Steve Gadd, Carlos ing and the singing here. Nice touch!
played saxophone which Vega, Vinnie Colaiuta, Peter Erskine, Billy
Check out Mark‘s drummer profile
helped me understand Cobham, Manu Katche’ and Jim Keltner. page, at moderndrummer.com
when to take a breath. These guys all have beautiful technique.
MD: Let’s talk about the I definitely owe them all a lot of debt for

Modern Drummer February 2023 47

 BASICS

The Four Practice Pockets

#1 Release Your INTUITION
By Chris Lesso

“Good practice is fluid the four IREC practice pockets become

essential to the art of learning. Over the
on this journey that we’re crafting.

and adaptable, it next few issues, we’ll dive deeper into

each pocket.
INTUITION: THE FLOW PRACTICE
There’s a kid’s game called “random
mirrors nature.” lines.” This is where you take a piece
ONE POCKET PRACTICES of paper and draw a line anywhere on
The IREC practice model (Modern How would it look to put all your focus the page. Then, you pass it to the next
Drummer Dec. ’22) is when we use the and energy into one pocket at a time? person, and they draw another line
four practice pockets of Intuition, Reps, You may have a leering deadline to connected to the first. This process is
Edges, and Celebration to get more out hit, or you may just need to feed your repeated as the paper is being passed. It
of the time we have behind the kit. What soul by shaking things up. Sometimes only takes a few passes for the strokes to
the IREC practice model isn’t, is a rigid we purposely go out of balance to get start taking on unexpected shapes, like
model of practice. We’re all different, back in balance. Becoming the shape when you stare at clouds and suddenly
with individual dreams and goals. Any of water looks different every day, see a dragon.
practice model that can’t flow like always formless and never rigid. Since Our flow practice is the process of
water is a failure. Every day is different, we don’t ever want to be stuck in static creating random “lines” on the drums.
you are even different from the “you” systems endorsed by the classical mess It’s a constant balance of exploring and
of yesterday! Even if you can only find of tradition, we need a guide that flows avoiding too many or too few ideas.
three minutes of practice, as long as you as we do. This process is the science, art, When we do this, we are letting go
pick up the sticks and connect with your and mystery of learning the craft that we and surrendering to what the “flow”
favorite music, you’ll go to bed knowing love. Going deep into only one pocket asks you to play. We are not trying to
you got 1% better. When we get a block steers us a little closer to our true north. control the flow, but we are guiding it.
of focused time (small as it may be,) It gets us closer to who we will become The goal is to give your intuition a voice,
empowering your ideas with the gift
of freedom to see where it leads. This
practice feeds the soul by tapping into
why we play drums in the first place.
This practice gives yourself permission
to intentionally spend time welcoming
whatever surfaces.
I’ve seen this in action in the playing
of my mentor Dom Famularo. His
enthusiastic drum artistry made a
massive impact on the direction of my
life and the standards I keep. This impact
continues today. When Dom plays a solo,
he doesn’t know what he’s about to play.
He stands right at the edge of the cliff
of his abilities; almost, but never falling.
Dom is playing from the heart, in the
moment, he is standing strong in the
wilderness of raw improvised creativity.
If you watch Dom or anyone else
performing from this zone, you’re seeing
the end result of what they worked
on in the practice room. They have
prepared exactly for this moment by
spending focused time on reps, edges,
and celebration, so they don’t have to

48 Modern Drummer February 2023

 However, trying to force a flow state
is like giving marching orders to a cat.
Good luck! What is in your control is to
create the right conditions for a flow
state to happen, then begin playing.
You’ll have good days and bad. Doing
this type of practice always brings a
return of massive value. We’re training
ourselves to be comfortable living
on the creative edge while striving to
speak (play) new ideas with clarity, as
they appear.
Going boldly into these unexplored
areas is like digging for unpolished
pieces of gold that are buried deep
in the earth. These unexplored areas
can offer a wellspring of creative ideas.
What you discover didn’t come from
a book, a course, or anywhere else…
It came from YOU. What can be more
valuable than that?
Turning this raw material into
something solid and effortless can be
a slow and tedious process, but that’s
the work that reveals the ideas that
live close to your heart. One overall
mission of practice is to chip away at
the “unessential’s” one fragment at
a time. A few hours spent exploring
your INTUITION can retrieve years of
consciously think. Anyone who does this creations and concepts that make you, material to sharpen and hone. But this
is playing from a place of expression and YOU. Stay curious! will only happen for those brave enough
joy, they are truly owning the now. This to walk through the door.
takes an amazing amount of courage. It
will be thrilling and/or daunting, it will
“Stay hungry, stay foolish.” When you get off track, repeat the LTR
reveal strengths and weaknesses. –Steve Jobs mantra: “Don’t Compete, CREATE!”
The flow practice targets ideas
that are wanting to come out, giving The flow practice is balance through Principles of the Flow Practice: Don’t
us space to sculpt them until they’re action in real time. Skateboarding, stop! Keep the flow going at all costs.
fully formed and clear. It takes time to surfing, tightrope walking (and Don’t judge what’s happening.
harness raw creativity from the space drumming) all embody forward motion Eventually the inner critic will quiet.
where inspiration lives. Doing this in the without falling. Too little effort is boring
practice room gives you the luxury of because there’s no risk, but too much Always: Stay curious. Stay in the
having time to fully explore each idea as effort breaks the spell and pulls us moment. Breathe!
long as you want, and then unleashing out of flow. Walking the line between
this spirit to the stage when needed! stretching and snapping the tightrope is
This is your time to really get inside the the magical sweet spot.

Check out Chris’s Modern Drummer profile page at moderndrummer.com

Modern Drummer February 2023 49

 STYLE & ANALYSIS

Pat Petrillo’s drum solo on “Runnin”

Transcription by Terry Branam

T his month’s transcription is Pat Petrillo’s solo on the song a samba, and it happened to be on Earth Wind, & Fire’s All ‘n All.

Runnin' Solo
“Runnin’” from his recording Pat Petrillo: The Big Rhythm Towards the of end of my version of the tune, I took this solo,
Band, The Power Station Sessions. He explains, “We do a cool and it was “first take, only take!” I had intended to do a couple
transcribed by
version of Earth Wind and Fire’s “Runnin’.” They were in heavy takes then “pick and slice” as many drummers do, but this just
Terry Branam
The atPat
rotation on my record player Petrillo
an early Big Rhythm
age. “Runnin’” is a trackBand flowed
– Thenaturally
PowerinStation
context, soSessions
what you hear is what went
that I always loved, it was one of the first times that I ever heard down, with no edits!

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freely...

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50 Modern Drummer February 2023
 œœœœœœœœœœœœ œ œ œ œ œœœœœœœœœœœœœœ œœ œ œ œœ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
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Modern Drummer February 2023 51
3
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z œ œ œ œz œ œ œ œz œ œ œ œM œ œM Œ z œ z œ z z z œ
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52 Modern Drummer February 2023
6 6 6 6 6 6 3 3 6
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stick clicks

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ã
Carly Vena

Check out Pat’s Modern Drummer

profile page at moderndrummer.com

Modern Drummer February 2023 53

 JAZZ DRUMMER’S WORKSHOP

Exercises for the Development of Control and Technique

By, Joe Morello

T52 his month we continue to feature the wonderful exercises

from Joe Morello’s book Master Studies. While some teachers
is softer than the one before. Take
these slowly enough that you can

dynamics
talk about speed and chops, Joe Morello focused on control and
technique. Proper technique and controlling your hands, move-
control them.
Each exercise is written with
ments, and the sticks will eventually lead to “speed and chops,” a suggested dynamic range, but
These
but there are noexercises
short cuts.are
The good
sectionfor
of dynamic control,
his book simply and they
called don’t are
stopalso
there.tremendous
After mastering
endurance builders. Within the crescendos and
Control Studies is a priceless study to achieve these (and other) diminuendos,
the range that there should
is written go be
back
no sudden changes in volume. They should
goals. This month we will include his chapter on dynamics. be done smoothly so that with
and apply a variety of dynamic the
Enjoy! crescendos, each note is louder than the one before, and with
ranges to thediminuendos,
same exercises. For
each note is softer than the one before. Take these slowly example, enough
exercisesthat
oneyou can
through
Dynamicscontrol them. four are written with a range from
These exercises are good for dynamic control, and they are also p to f. After practicing with that
Each endurance
tremendous exercise is written
builders. with the
Within a suggested dynamic
crescendos and di- range,
range try but
thedon’t stopsugges-
following there.
After mastering the range that is written, go back and apply a variety of dynamic
minuendos, there should be no sudden changes in volume. They tions: ppp to fff, pp to mf, mp to f, p to f, and so on. The more ways
shouldranges
be doneto the same
smoothly exercises.
so that For example,
with the crescendos, eachexercises
note you1play through 4 are written
these exercises, the more they will help you, and the
with a range from pp to ff. After practicing with
is louder than the one before, and with diminuendos, each note that range,
more control you will gain. sug-
try the following
gestions: ppp to fff; pp to mf; mp to ff; p to f; and so on. The more ways you play
these exercises, the more they will help you, and the more control you will gain.

? 44 .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœ
1

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ƒ f

? œFœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœ ..
p

2
? 44 .. œœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœ œœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœ
π F

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ƒ F

? 44 œœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœ œœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœ ..
3

π ƒ
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4 5

π ƒ
54 Modern Drummer February 2023
 ? 44 œœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœ œœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœ ..
3

π ƒ
>
? 44 .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. ? 128 .. pœ œ œ œ œƒœ œ pœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. 53
4 5

π ƒ

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6
6 7

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> >
? 44 ..
3 3

œœœœœœœœœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœœœœœ
8

p ƒ p ƒ
>>>>>>>>
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3 3 3 3

œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœœœœœœœœœœœ
9

ƒ p
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? c ..Fœœ œœπœœ œœœ œœ œ .. ? c ..fœ œ œpœ œ œ œ œ œ fœ œ œ œ œ œ ..
3 6 3 3
10 11

> > > > >

? 45 .. fœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ pœ œ œ œ .. ? 43 ..ƒœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
6
12 13

? c .. ƒœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
3 3 3 3

‘ œœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœ ‘
14

? c .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
3 3 3 3
15
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3 3 3 3
16 17

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18
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3 3 3 3
19

? c .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
3 3 3 3
20 21

ƒ π ƒ πƒ π
Check out Joe’s Modern Drummer profile page and
get your copy of Master Studies at moderndrummer.com
February 2023 Modern Drummer 55
 ROCK AND JAZZ CLINIC

Double Bass Drumming

Accented Rolls and Accented Patterns with Triplets
By Joe Franco

A s we continue to include sections from Joe Franco’s book Double Bass Drumming, this month Joe
teaches us about playing accented rolls and accent patterns over a double bass drum roll that uses his
Single Stroke System. This is a fantastic way to expand your double bass vocabulary, and is a very powerful
sound.

Accented Rolls and Accented Patterns with Triplets

In these exercises, an accented single stroke roll (appearing on the left column of each exercise) and the
accent (or a syncopated) pattern of that roll (appearing on the right column) of each exercise are played
over the double bass roll. Accented roles and accented patterns can be interpreted in many ways. Here are
a few suggestions for playing this section:

-Play the accented roll on the snare using rimshots for all accents.
-Play the accented roll on anyone drum by playing the accents loud and the unaccented (ghost notes) soft.
-Play all the accents on Toms and other parts of the kit while playing the unaccented notes on the snare.
-After playing the accented rolls, play only the accent pattern right column of each page. Break up the patterns
between both hands. Try using the single stroke system for sticking or experiment with other sticking methods.
Keep in mind that playing the accent pattern over the double bass roll is not as easy as playing the continuous
accented roll. This will serve as a good balance and control exercise.
-Play the accent patterns with both hands simultaneously. To further develop your hand independence over the
double bass roll, try playing the Accent patterns on the snare with one hand, while playing one of the following ride
patterns with the other.

Ride Patterns Over Eighth Note Triplet Double Bass Roll

Note the double bass roll is written only once on each page at the bottom. However every hand pattern should be
played over the double bass roll

Accented Triplets

56 Modern Drummer February 2023

Modern Drummer February 2023 57
58 Modern Drummer February 2023
Modern Drummer February 2023 59
 Check out Joe’s Modern Drummer profile page and get your copy of
Double Bass Drumming at moderndrummer.com

60 Modern Drummer February 2023

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Modern Drummer February 2023 61
 FUNK FUNDAMENTALS
Six- Against-Four Polyrhythm
Exercises in African-American Funk
Chapter 2: Six-Against-Four
Chapter 2: Six-Against-Four Polyrhythm
Polyrhythm
By Jonathan Joseph and Steve Rucker

Chapter
The next step in 2:
next step in our Six-Against-Four
our exploration of African polyrhythms Polyrhythm
is to learn to hear and play six against four.

TChapter
The exploration of African polyrhythms is to learn to hear and play six against four.
hispolyrhythm
This month we continue
is verywith our excerpts
prevalent from
in West Jonathan
African Joseph’s
music, andbook Exercises
there’s in African-American
a direct Funk: it
relationship between
This
and
The
polyrhythm
the
nextlong
Mangambe,
step in
2:
is
three,
Biktusi,
our
Six-Against-Four
very
as
and
prevalent
you’ll see. of
the Shuffle.
exploration
and the long three, as you’ll see.
in West
WeAfrican
African
began with Polyrhythm
music, and there’s a direct relationship between it
last month’s
polyrhythms is exploration
to learn to of theand
hear three-against-four
play six polyrhythm,
against four.
the next
This step in our exploration
polyrhythm of African
is very prevalent in polyrhythms
West Africanismusic,
to learnandto hear and play
there’s six-against-four.
a direct relationship This polyrhythm
between it
The
isThis
very
next
is the step
prevalent
in
basic
in
our exploration
six-against-four
West African music,
of African
polyrhythm.
and
polyrhythms
there’s a The upper
direct
is to learn
rhythm
relationship
to hear
consists
between it of
and
and play
quarter
“the
six
long
against
notes
three”in 4/4
that
four.
we
and the long
This polyrhythm three, as you’ll
is the basic six-against-four see. polyrhythm. The upper rhythm consists of quarter notes in 4/4
This
meter, and is very prevalent in WestinAfrican
6/4. music, and there’s a direct relationship between it
discussed
meter, last the lower
month. rhythm is quarters
and theand long the lower
three, asrhythm is quarters in 6/4.
you’ll see.
This is the basic six-against-four polyrhythm. The upper rhythm consists of quarter notes in 4/4
4
meter,
This// theand
is is
44 basicthe lower rhythmpolyrhythm.
six-against-four is quartersThe
in upper
6/4. rhythm consists of quarter notes in 4/4 meter, and the lower
This the basic six-against-four polyrhythm. The upper rhythm consists of quarter notes in 4/4
VV V VV V
rhythm
meter,isand
4 quarters
VV VV V VV VV V VV
in 6/4.rhythm is quarters in 6/4.
the lower
VV
/ 44 V V 6:4 V V
/ 4 VV V V V 6:4 VV V
V V
This is the V same rhythm V 6:4
V written a different
V way. VHere, the lower
V rhythm is written as
This is the same rhythm written a different way. Here, the lower rhythm is written as
quarter-note triplets. 6:4
quarter-note triplets.
This is the same rhythm written a different way. Here, the lower rhythm is written as
This is the same rhythm written a different way. Here, the lower rhythm is written as quarter note triplets.
4
quarter-note triplets.
// 44 VV
This is the same rhythm written a different way. Here, the lower rhythm is written as
VV V VV VV V
V V
quarter-note triplets.
4V V V V V V
3 3
/ 44 VV 3 V V 3 V
V V V V V
Still
/ another
4 way of notating this polyrhythm is to write the lower rhythm as 8th-note triplets with
Still another
V way ofV notatingVthis polyrhythm is V
to write theVlower rhythm as 8th-note triplets with
V 3
V V 3
V
every other note being played. V
every other note being played.
Still
Stillanother
anotherway
way 3 notating
of notating
of this polyrhythm is to write
this polyrhythm 3the
is to lower
write rhythm
the lowerasrhythm
eighth note triplets with
as 8th-note everywith
triplets other
every
4 other note
note being played. being played.
Still another way of notating this polyrhythm is to write the lower rhythm as 8th-note triplets with
// 44 VV ‰ VV‰ V ‰ VV ‰ V VV‰ V ‰
every4other
VJ note being
J ‰ VJ ‰played.
J
V JVJ ‰ JVJ ‰ JVJ ‰ JVJ ‰
/ 44 V 33‰
V ‰ V 3
3 ‰ V 33‰ V 33 ‰
‰
/ 4 J
V J V
V J
V J
V
V J
V V VJ
Now we’llJV apply
3 the
‰ VJ method
‰ V3that we used
‰ VJ for
3 hearing
‰ VJ the‰ long
VJ3 three
‰ from Chapter 1. Play the following
Now we’ll apply the methodJ that we used for hearing the long three from Chapter 1. Play the following
triplet exercise on the hi-hat. Use a metronome to keep the tempo steady, and count out loud: “One,
triplet
Now exercise
we’ll apply onmethod
3the the hi-hat. Use
that3we a metronome
used 3 the
for hearing to long
keepthree
the3 tempo steady,
from last month.and
Playcount out loud:
the following “One,
triplet exer-
two,
Now three, four.”
we’ll apply the method that we used for hearing the long three from Chapter 1. Play the following
two, three, four.”
cise on the hi hat. Use a metronome to keep the tempo steady, and count out loud 1, 2, 3, 4.
triplet exercise on the hi-hat. Use a metronome to keep the tempo steady, and count out loud: “One,
>> >> >> >>
Now we’ll R apply
L R the L method
R L thatR LweRused L for
R hearing the long three from Chapter 1. Play the following
two, three,
R four.”
L
triplet exercise on the hi-hat. Use
L3 R L R3 L R L3 R L R3 L
3 3 3a metronome3 to keep the tempo steady, and count out loud: “One,
two, three, >four.” > > >
44 >¿¿R ¿¿L3 ¿¿R >¿¿L ¿¿R3 ¿¿L >¿¿R ¿¿L3 ¿¿R >¿¿L ¿¿R3 ¿¿L
R L R L R L R L R L R L
4
4
™™
// 4 R L R L R L R L R L R L ‘
‘ ‘
‘ ‘
‘ ™
¿ ¿
4changethethe 3 ¿ ¿ ¿ 3 ¿ ¿ ¿ 3 ¿ ¿ ¿3 ¿ 4
Now
Now change accents
accents so so that
that you’re you’re
playing playing
every everytriplet
other other tripletCount
partial. partial.
outCount out
1, 2, 3, 4, loud:
5, 6. You “One,
don’t
4 have two,to™™
Now
/ 4 change¿ ¿ the¿ accents
¿ ¿ so
¿ that
¿ you’re
¿ ¿ playing
¿ ¿ ¿every other ‘ triplet partial. Count
‘ out loud: “One,
‘ two,
three,
play 4 four,
this exercise five,onsix.”
a drum Youset don’t
andhave someto ofplay
you may thisfind
exercise on a drumset,
the rhythm andthan
easier to hear some theof youthree”
“long may find the™
exercises
three, four, five, six.” You don’t have to play this exercise on a drumset, and some of you may find the™
rhythm
/
Now
that
4 change
we discussedeasier theto
lasthear
accents
month.than so the
that long-three
you’re playingexercises
every in Chapter
other
‘ triplet1. partial.
‘
Count out loud:
‘
“One, two,
rhythm easier to hear than the long-three exercises in Chapter 1.
three, four, >> five, >>six.” You
>> so don’t >>have >>to play>>thisevery exercise on a drumset, and some of you may find the
Now change L the R accents that you’re
L R playing other triplet partial. Count out loud: “One, two,
rhythmR easier to hearL Rthan L the R long-three L exercises in Chapter 1.
three, four, R Lfive,
3 R six.” L YouR3 don’tL R have to play this
3 Lexercise on a drumset, and some of you may find the
R L
L3 R L R
3 > 3
rhythm>
44 >¿¿Reasier
¿¿L3 >¿¿to
R ¿
hear
¿L ¿¿R>than ¿ ¿L3 >¿¿R ¿¿L exercises
¿L the¿¿R> long-three
¿
>¿3 ¿ in Chapter 1.
¿
R ¿ L
4
4
// 4 R L R L R3 L R L3 R L R3 L > > > > ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
¿ ¿3 ¿ ¿ ¿3 ¿ ¿ ¿3 ¿ ¿ ¿3 ¿ ‘ ‘ ‘4
™
Next, alternate between two measures of 4/4 and two measures of six against four. As you’re playing ™™
4
Next,
Next, 4alternate ¿between two
¿ ¿measures of 4/4
¿Twoand two measures of sixfour.
against four.playing
As you’re ‘4 playing
this alternate ¿ ¿ between ¿thetwo measures ¿ of¿4/4 ¿and measures of
/ exercise, keep ¿tempo steady and count ¿out ‘six against
loud “One, two, three, As
‘ you’re
four” this
with the accents exercise,
in
this exercise,
4 keep the tempo steady and count out loud “One, two, three, four” with the accents in ™™
keep
bars the1 and
Next,1alternatetempo2, steady
and “One,
between and count
two, out
three,
two three,
measures loud
four,1, 2, 3,
five, 4 with
six” the
with accents
the in
accents barsinone
barsand
3 two,
and and
4. 1,
Again,2, 3,
to4, 5, 6
make with
thethe
four,offive, 4/4six”
andwith
two themeasures ofin
sixbars
against four. As you’re playing
/
bars
4 and 2, and “One, two,
‘ accents
‘
3 and 4. Again,
‘
to make the
accents
exercise
this in bars
exercise, more three
keep and
interesting
the four.
tempo Again,
and fun,
steadyto make
playand itthe exercise
along
count withmore
out some
loud interesting
recordings
“One, two, and fun,four”
that
three, play
haveitwith
aalong
triplet with
the some record-
subdivision.
accents in
exercise
Next, more
alternate interesting
between and fun, play it along with some recordings that have a triplet subdivision.
ings
bars that1 and
this exercise,
have
>>R L2,aRand
triplet
keep
>>L “One, >>two three,
subdivision.
two,
theLtempo
measures
>> four,
steady
of 4/4 and two measures
five, six” with the >> of>>insixbars
accents
>> “One, against >>four.
>> 3 and >>As you’re
4. Again,
playing
to make the
L R and L count out loud R L R two, L R three, four”
R Lwith R the accents in
exerciseRmore L3 R interesting
L R3 L R and L Rfun, L play
R3 L it along with some R L3recordings
R L R3 L that have
R La triplet
R3 L subdivision.
R R L R L R L L
bars 1 and 2, 3 and “One, two,3 3three, four, five, six” with the accents in
3 bars 33and 4. Again, to make the
R L3
3 3 > 3> > > > >3
exercise¿ > more
¿ ¿ interesting
>
¿ ¿ ¿ >
¿ and
¿ ¿fun,>
¿ play
¿ ¿ it along with some
¿ ¿ recordings
¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ that
¿ ¿ have
¿ ¿ a triplet
¿ ¿ subdivision.
4 ¿R ¿L ¿R ¿L ¿R ¿L ¿R ¿L ¿R ¿L ¿R ¿L ¿R ¿L3 >¿R ¿L ¿R>3 ¿L ¿R> ¿L3 >¿R ¿L ¿>R3 ¿L
// 44 >R L3 R >L R3 L >R L3 R >L R3 L ‘
‘ >
R L R L R L R L R L R L
‘
‘
™™
™
12
4 ¿ ¿3 ¿ ¿ ¿3 ¿ ¿ ¿3 ¿ ¿ ¿3 ¿ ¿ ¿3 ¿ ¿ ¿3 ¿ ¿ ¿3 ¿ ¿ ¿3 ¿
62 Modern
/ 4Drummer ™™
4 ¿ ¿ ¿ February ¿ ¿ ¿2023¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿
12
‘ ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿ ‘
/4 ‘ ‘ ™™
 three, four, five, six.” You don’t have to play this exercise on a drumset, and some of you may find the
rhythm easier to hear than the long-three exercises in Chapter 1.
> > > > > >
R L R L R L R L R L R L
3 3 3 3

4¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ 4
™™
/4 ‘ ‘ ‘
Next, alternate between two measures of 4/4 and two measures of six against four. As you’re playing
this exercise, keep the tempo steady and count out loud “One, two, three, four” with the accents in
bars 1 and 2, and “One, two, three, four, five, six” with the accents in bars 3 and 4. Again, to make the
exercise more interesting and fun, play it along with some recordings that have a triplet subdivision.
>R > > > > > > > > >
L R L R L R L R L R L R L R L R L R L R L R L
3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3

4¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿ ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿
™™
/4 ‘ ‘
12 Nowplay
Now playthethebass
bassdrum
drumononthe
theaccented
accentednotes.
notes.
Nowplay
Now playthethe bass
bass drum
drum onaccented
on the the accented
notes.notes.
>R>>R LL RR >L>>L RR LL >R>>R LL RR >L>>L RR LL >>>R L >>>R L >R>> L >R>> L >>>R L >>>R L
R L3 R L R3 L R L3 R L R3 L R L3 R L R3 L R L3 R L R3 L
R L R L R L R L R L R L
33 33 33 33 33 33 33 33
an_American Funk Jonathan Joseph Inside.indd 12 3/26/15 9:19 AM
¿ ¿ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿ ¿
44 ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿¿ ¿¿¿
¿¿ ¿¿ ¿ ¿ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿
¿
4 ™™ ™™™
/// 44 œœœ œœœ œœœ œœœ ‘‘
‘ œJœJœ ‰‰‰ œJœJœ ‰‰‰ œJœJœ ‰‰‰ œJœJœ ‰‰‰ œJœJœ ‰‰‰ œJœJœ ‰‰‰ ‘‘
‘
J 3 J J3 J 3 J J3
33 33 33 33

Nowplay
Now play the same exercise with triplets on the ridecymbal.
cymbal.
Nowplay
Now play the
the
the same
same
sameexercise
exercise withwith
exercise triplets
triplets
with on
on the
triplets the
ride
on ride
cymbal.
the ride cymbal.
RR RR RR RR RR RR RR RR RR RR RR RR
R R3 R R R3 R R R3 R R R3 R RR RR RR RR RR RR RR RR RR RR RR RR
R R3 R R R3 R R R3 R R R3 R
33 33 33 33 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿
/ 444 ¿¿œ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿œ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿œ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿œ ¿¿ ¿¿ ™™ ™™™
// 44 œœ œœ œœ œœ ‘‘
‘ œJœJœ ‰‰‰ œJœJœ ‰‰‰ œJœJœ ‰‰‰ œJœJœ ‰‰‰ œJœJœ ‰‰‰ œJœJœ ‰‰‰ ‘‘
‘
J J J J J J
33
3 33
3 33
3 33
3

Here’s
Here’sthe same
the exercise
same played
exercise with with
played the hithe
hat hi-hat
foot. foot.
Here’sthe
Here’s thesame
sameexercise
exerciseplayed
playedwith
withthe
thehi-hat
hi-hatfoot.
foot.
RR RR R RR R RR RR R RR RR R RR
R R3 RR R RR3 R R RR3 R R RR3 R RR RR R RR R RR RR R RR RR R RR
R R3 RR R RR3 R R RR3 R R RR3 R
33 33 33 33 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿
444 ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿
/
// 44 ¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ‘‘
‘ ¿J¿J¿ ‰‰‰ ¿J¿J¿ ‰‰‰ ¿J¿J¿ ‰‰‰ ¿J¿J¿ ‰‰‰ ¿J¿J¿ ‰‰‰ ¿J¿J¿ ‰‰‰ ‘‘
‘
™™ ™™™
¿ J J J J J J
33 33
3 33 33
3
3 3
Inthe
thenext
nextexercise,
exercise,play
playquarter
quarternotes
noteswith
withthe
thebass
bassdrum
drumfor
fortwo
two measures,andandthen
thenplay
playsix
sixagainst
against
In
InInthe
thenext
nextexercise, playplay
exercise, quarter notesnotes
quarter with the bass
with thedrum
bassfor
drum for twomeasures,
two measures, and then play
measures, andsix against
then playfour
six with the
against
four
four with
with the
the hi-hat foot for two measures.
high
fourhat foot
with forhi-hat
the foot
footfor
two measures.
hi-hat fortwo
twomeasures.
measures.
RR RR R RR R RR RR R RR RR R RR RR RR R RR R RR RR R RR RR R RR
R R3 RR R RR3 R R RR3 R R RR3 R R R3 RR R RR3 R R RR3 R R RR3 R
33 33 33 33 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿ ¿¿¿
/ 444 ¿¿œ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿œ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿œ ¿¿ ¿¿ ¿¿œ ¿¿ ¿¿
// 44 œœ œœ œœ œœ ‘‘
‘ ¿J¿J¿ ‰‰‰ ¿J¿J¿ ‰‰‰ ¿J¿J¿ ‰‰‰ ¿J¿J¿ ‰‰‰ ¿J¿J¿ ‰‰‰ ¿J¿J¿ ‰‰‰ ‘‘
‘
™™ ™™™
J J J J J J 33 33
33
3 3 33
3 3
Thenext
The next step
step is play
is to toplay
play quarter
quarter notesnotes and
and six sixagainst
against
against foursame
four at the at the same
time. Starttime. Startby
by playing by playing
quarter quarter
notes with the
Thenext
The nextstep
stepisistoto playquarter
quarternotes
notesand
andsix
six againstfour
fouratatthe
thesame
sametime.
time.Start
Start byplaying
playingquarter
quarter
notes
bass
notes with
drum.
with the
the bass
bass drum.
drum.
notes with the bass drum.
44 44
4
/// 444 œœœ œœœ œœœ œœœ ‘‘
‘ ‘‘
‘ ‘‘
‘
™™ ™™™
Nowadd
Now addthe
thehi-hat
hi-hatfoot
footon
onbeat
beat1,1,while
whilesinging
singing8th-note
8th-notetriplets.
triplets.
Now
Nowadd
addthe hi hi-hat
the hat footfoot
on beat one, while
on beat singing
1, while eighth
singing note triplets.
8th-note triplets.
4 44
/// 4444 œ¿œ¿œ ‰ ‰ œ‰œœ ‰ ‰ œœ‰œ ‰ ‰ œ‰œœ ‰ ‰
4
‘‘
‘ ‘‘
‘ ‘‘
‘
™™ ™™™
JJ¿J ‰‰ ‰‰ ‰‰ ‰‰ ‰‰ ‰‰ ‰‰ ‰‰ ‰‰ ‰‰ ‰‰
3
33 3 33 33 33 3 3
Modern Drummer February 2023 63
 Next, add the hi-hat notes one at a time until the six-against-four polyrhythm is complete.
Next, add the hi hat notes one at a time until the six against four polyrhythm is complete.

4 4
/ 4 œ¿ ¿ œ ‰ ‰ œ‰ ‰ ‰ ‰œ ‰ ‰ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
J ‰ J ‰
3 3 3 3

4 4
/ 4 œ¿ ¿ œ ¿ ‰ œ‰ ‰ ‰ ‰œ ‰ ‰ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
J ‰ J ‰ J
3 3 3 3

4 4
/ 4 œ¿ ¿ œ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ‰ ‰ ‰œ ‰ ‰ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
J ‰ J ‰ J J
3 3 3 3

4 4
/ 4 œ¿ ¿ œ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ‰ ¿ œ ‰ ‰ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
J ‰ J ‰ J J J ‰
3 3 3 3

4 4
/ 4 œ¿ ‰ ¿ ‰œ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ‰ ¿ ‰œ ¿ ‰ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
J J J J J J
3 3 3 3

Now add triplets on the ride cymbal.

Now add triplets on the ride cymbal.
3 3 3 3

4 ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ 4
/ 4 œ¿ ‰ ¿ ‰œ ¿ œ¿ ¿ œ ¿ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
J J J ‰ J ‰ J ‰ J ‰
3 3 3 3

From
From here,
here, feelfeel
freefree to experiment
to experiment with cymbal
with cymbal variations,
variations, and,
and, if you if you
wish, wish,
add the adddrum
snare the snare drum
on beats two on
and four of
beats
the bar 2orand 4 of three.
on beat the bar
Weor onexplore
will beat 3.many
We will
moreexplore
drumsetmany
groovesmore drumset
using groovesfour
this six against using this six-in upcom-
polyrhythm
against-four
ing months. polyrhythm in upcoming chapters.
Presents:

Exercises in
ABOUT THE AUTHORS
Jonathan Joseph has played with a wide variety of

African-American Funk
acclaimed artists, including Alexander O’Neal,
Al Jarreau, Mike Stern, Betty Wright, Beverley
Knight, Bill Evans, David Sanborn, Jeff Beck, Josef
Presents: Exercises in African-American Funk

Zawinul, Joss Stone, Pat Metheny, Randy Brecker,

and Ricky Martin.
Born in 1966, Joseph began playing drums in
church services at the age of six. After attending Mangambe, Bikutsi, and the Shuffle
the University of Miami, he toured extensively
with Grammy-winning vocalist Betty Wright and
appeared on her album B-Attitudes. In 1993,
Jonathan was asked to join the Zawinul Syndicate,
led by jazz legend Josef Zawinul. In 1994, he began
• Strengthen Your Groove

Check out Jonathan’s Modern Drummer

working with Latin-jazz flutist Nestor Torres, and
in 1995 he joined contemporary jazz saxophonist
• Master the 3:4 Polyrhythm
David Sanborn’s band. Between 1996 and 1998,
Joseph maintained a rigorous touring and • Increase Rhythmic Awareness
recording schedule with Al Jarreau, Mike Stern,

profile page and get your copy of

Bill Evans, and Randy Brecker before joining the
touring band of pop star Ricky Martin in 1999.
In 2000, Joseph toured with the legendary fusion by Jonathan Joseph
by Jonathan Joseph and Steve Rucker

band the Yellowjackets and performed with world-

renowned bassist Richard Bona. and Steve Rucker

Exercises in African-American Funk at

Joseph was the drummer and musical arranger
for pop/R&B singer Joss Stone in 2004 for her Soul
Sessions tour. In 2013, Jonathan went back on the
road, with legendary guitarist Jeff Beck.

Steve Rucker was a drummer in the popular band the Bee Gees. With

moderndrummer.com
the Bee Gees, he appeared on The Tonight Show, Late Night With David
Letterman, The Oprah Winfrey Show, The Rosie O’Donnell Show, and the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony. He also appears on the
Bee Gees’ One Night Only recording and DVD.
Originally from Charlotte, North Carolina, Rucker attended Berklee
College of Music in Boston, and he has a master’s degree in jazz
performance from the University of Miami. He has performed or
recorded with Michael Jackson, Paquito D’Rivera, Barry Gibb, Jaco
Pastorius, Joe Sample, Johnny Cash, Bo Diddley, the Woody Herman
Orchestra, the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra, Sam Moore, Bob James, Ben
Vereen, and Gloria Estefan.
Since 1979, Rucker has been the director of drumset studies at the
University of Miami.

Published By

U.S. $14.95

HL00146822

EXERCISES IN AFRICAN AMERICAN FUNK BOOK COVER FINAL JOSEPH BOOK.indd All Pages 4/10/15 4:35 PM

64 Modern Drummer February 2023

LESSONS

Pat Petrillo Groove Breakdowns

By Pat Petrillo

Pat Petrillo
Pat Petrillo breaks down some important Roots Grooves that every drummer drummer know.

EARL PALMER GROOVE:

Song Breakdowns
The great Earl Palmer is one of my favorite drummers. He influenced an entire generation of drummers from
Pat Petrillo
Ringo all the way up to today. Earl’s most important grooves are the ones that he did with great artists like Fats

ThisSecond
is one of Line Demonstration
my favorite
SongPat
Domino on “I’m Walkin;” or Little Richard on “Slippin’ and Slidin.”
1 Breakdowns
Petrillo
Earl Palmer grooves. Earl grew up playing second-line march music which is more of
a two-beat feel.
> 3 Song > Pat Breakdowns
3
Petrillo 3 > 3 > 3
4 ™™ œœLine œDemonstration
4
1/ Second
j
œ ‰ œ œœ œ œ j
 ‰ œ œœ œ œ œ ‰ j ‰ œœ œ ‰ œœ
œ
j
 œœ7
Song Breakdowns
™™
Œ Œ ‰ ‰ J ‰ ‰ J
1 Second Line Demonstration > 3 > 3 3 > 33 > 33
If you4use™this
4hear™ œœwhere
/ youSecond as your j ‰ œyouœwill create
œ œfoundation,
j
 ‰ œof a slightly
œ œthe feeling œœ ‰swung œ ‰ march.
œ œ second-line
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œ will‰ œœ
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 œœ7 ™™
help Earl>Π3
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™™ œœ œ œ of
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the
j swing‰ notes with his right
œ œœ œ œ j hand‰and the backbeats‰onj2 and 4 with‰whatJis called
 œ œœ œ œ œ 3 œœ œ 3‰ Jœœ œ
j a
 œœ7
/
CharlestonRbass drum
4 R rhythm.
>Œ>L 3 R R R >Œ >L 3 R R R
3 > >
L‰ ‰3>L J R >‰ R‰3 J>L R
™™
This rhythmic feeling is what we call “in the cracks.” It’s not quite straight and not quite all the way swung. It’s
somewhere
2/ Earl
4 œ
4™ œPalmer
™ in œ
the œ j œœ ‰ œ œ œœ œœj œ œ‰ œ
middle.
™ œ Groove
™ œ œœ ‰ œj œ œ 3‰œ œ œ
œ œ œ œ3‰ œ
j
œ œœ7œ ™™
Œ¿ œ Œœ Œ ¿ œœ ¿‰ ‰œ œJ Œ ‰ ‰ œJœ¿
R R
2 Earl Palmer Groove >L R R R >L R R R
>L 3>L R R3 >L R

™™ œœR Groove œR œL œœR œR œR œL œR œœR œR œL œœL œR œR œœL œR

3/ Ringo ™™
>¿ >¿ >¿ > Œ >¿
2 Earl Palmer Groove Œ
/ ™™ œœR œR >œ¿L œœR œR œR >œ¿L œR œœR œR >œ¿L >œœL ŒœR œR >œœ¿L œ
R
™™
RINGO
O O BREAKDOWN:
GROOVE
O œ œO Œ O O O¿ O O O O œ œO O O O¿ O
3This
/ Ringo™
™ Groove
/ is™oneœœ of myœfavoriteœ¿ Ringo ¿ œœgroovesœœof allœtime. It’sœ¿fromœthe song,œœ“I FeelœFine,” which
œ ¿ is œœon the œBeatles
œ œ’65 œœ¿ œ ™™
album. It really highlights the faux-mambo Œ beat that Ringo used on a lot of tunes, and it shows what Ringo’s ¿
¿ ¿ Œ ™
3 Ringo Groove
versatility was O all Oabout.O œ œO O O O¿ O O O O œ œO O O O¿ O
4/ Ringo
™ ™™
Ringo
™ œO Groove
Fill ¿œ œO œO O ¿O œO œO O O ¿œ œO œO O ¿O œO
3 O O ¿ ¿
/ ™™ œ ¿ j œ ¿ œ jœ ¿ ¿ œ ¿ œ ™™
Œ™ O FillOœœ O ‰œ œœO ŒO O œœ O¿ O‰ œœO Œ O œ Oœ œ œ œO O Œ O O¿Ó O
4// Ringoœ™ œ œ œ œœ œ œœ œ œ œ œ ™™
Of course, we know that Ringo ¿ is left-handed. However, ¿ he played the Mambo rhythm¿on the bell ofœthe ride ¿ œ
4 hisRingo
with Fill which shows his dexterity. Ringo didn’t play the hi-hat with his left foot on this
right hand, j Œ j Œ ¿ groove, but
Œ
that’s something that œ
œ œ œ œyou could‰ doœon 2 and œ
4. Obviously,
œœ œ œ œ œ ‰
Ringo œ
listened to a lot of
œ œ
American
œ records growing
Œ up Ó
as / œ
a youngster andœas a drummer. œ
¿
4HereRingo
isŒthe famous
Fill
œ fill from ‰ j Œof the guitar break of‰the samej song.Œ
the middle
œ œœœ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ
/ œ œœ œ œ œ œ Œ Ó
Œ ‰ j Œ ‰ j Œ ¿
/ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ
œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ Œ Ó

Check out Pat’s Modern Drummer profile page at moderndrummer.com

Modern Drummer February 2023 65
 ROCK PERSPECTIVES

ChapterThe
2 EncyclopediaTwo Consecutive 16th Notes
of Double Bass Drumming
Two Consecutive 16th Notes
By Bobby Rondinelli and Michael Lauren
• This chapter includes warm-ups, beats, and fills containing two consecutive 16th notes.

B obby Rondinelli and Michael Lauren wrote The Encyclopedia of Double Bass Drumming. It takes a slightly different
approach from our• Although
ongoingthese
with some basics. Thisand powerfully
month’s excerpt
two-note
studies from the
between
develops
ideas can be book
Joe Franco
your feet
your
played
onwith
musttobecreate
ability
one bass
double
developed.
foot, drumming.
the ability toLast
play two notes
month evenly
we began
warm-ups, beats, and fills by playing two
consecutive notes with your
• The bass drums.
warm-up exercises help develop your coordination by focusing solely on repeated two-
note patterns.
This chapter includes warm-ups, beats, and fills containing two consecutive 16th
• Make your feet sound consistent on their own.
notes.
Although these two note ideas • Beats
can 13–18 are with
be played moreone
difficult.
foot, Feel free totocome
the ability back to them at a later date.
play two
notes evenly and powerfully between your feet must be developed.
The warm-up exercises help• develop Beats 16–18your have syncopated
coordination snare drum
by focusing rhythms.
solely on
repeated two note patterns.
• Beats 19 and 20 are two-bar phrases. Combine any of the previous beats to create your own
Make your feet sound consistent two-,on theirand
four-, own.eight-bar phrases.
Beats 13 to 18 are more difficult. Feel free to come back to them at a later date.
Beats 16 to 18 have syncopated • Fillssnare
21–30 are rhythms.
drum one-measure fills. Combine them with the previous beats.
Beats 19 to 20 are two bar phrases. Combine any of the previous beats to create
• The fills are written with snare drum and bass drums only. Try other orchestrations. For example:
your own two, four, and eight bar phrases.
1. Right hand on snare drum and left hand on high tom.
Fills 21 to 30 are one measure fills. Combine them with the previous beats.
2. Right hand on floor tom and left hand on high tom.
The fills are written with snare drum and bass drums only. Try other orchestrations.
For example: • Fill 31 is an example of a two-bar phrase containing a short fill.
1. Right hand on snare drum and left hand on high tom.
2. Right hand on floor tom and• Fills 32 and
left hand on33 aretom.
high examples of phrases that include a one-bar fill.
Fill 31 is an example of a two-bar phrase containing a short fill.
• Fill 34 illustrates a fill longer than one measure.
Fills 32 and 33 are examples of phrases that include a one bar fill.
Be creative
Fill 34 illustrates a fill that is •longer withmeasure.
than one the length of your fills. They don’t have to start and end on beat 1 of a measure.
Be creative with the length of your fills. They don’t have to start and end on beat
one of a measure.

Warm-Ups

÷ .. œ .. ÷ .. ≈ œ ≈ œ ≈ œ ≈ œ ..
1 2

œ. œ œ. œ œ. œ œ. œ œ œ œ

÷ .. ‰ œ ‰ œ ‰ œ ‰ œ .. ÷ .. œ . .
3 4

œ œ œ œ œ œ. œ œ. œ œ. œ.

8 Encyclopedia Of Double Bass Drumming

66 Modern Drummer February 2023

Beats

÷ 44 œ
y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y
.. ÷ .. œ ..
5 6

œœ œœ œ

y y y y y y œy y . y y y y y y œy y .
÷ .. œ œ œ ÷ .. œ œ œ
7 8

œ œœ . œ œœ .
œ

y y œy y y y œy y . y y œy y y y œy y .
÷ .. œ ÷ ..
9 10

œœ œœ . œ œœ œ œœ.
œ

y y œy y y y œy y . y y y y y y œy y .
÷ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ
11 12

œœ œœ œ œ . œ œ œœ œ .

y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y
÷ .. œ œ .. ÷ .. œ ..
13 14

œœ œœ œœ

y y œy y y y œy y . y y œy y œ y y œy y .
÷ .. ÷ .. œ
15 16
. œ .
œœ œ œ œœ œ

y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y
÷ .. œ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
17 18
œ œ œ œ
œ œ œ œ œ œ

Encyclopedia Of Double Bass Drumming 9

Modern Drummer February 2023 67
 y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y
÷ .. œ .
19

œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .

y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y œ y œ y œy y
÷ .. œ ..
20

œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ

Fills

÷ 44 œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
21 22

œ œ œ œ

÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
23 24

œ œ œ œ œ

÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
25 26

œ œ œ œ œ

÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
27 28

œ œ œ œ œ œ œ

÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
29 30

œ œ œ œ œ œ œ

y y œy y œ y y œy y y y œy y
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
31

œ œ œ œ œ œ

y y œy y y y œy y
÷ .. œ œ œ ..
32

œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
œ œ œ œ

10 Encyclopedia Of Double Bass Drumming

68 Modern Drummer February 2023
 y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y
÷ .. œ
33
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
œ œ œ œ œ œ

y y y y y y y y œ œ œ œ ..
÷œ
j j j j
œ œ œœ œœ œœ œœ
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ

y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y
÷ .. œ
34

œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ

y y œy y y y œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
÷
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ

y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y
÷ .. œ
35

œ œ œ œ

÷œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
œ œ œ œ œ

y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y
÷ .. œ
36

œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ

÷œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
œ œ œ œ œ œ

Check out Bobby and Michael’s Modern Drummer profile pages and get your
Encyclopedia Of Double Bass Drumming
copy of The Encyclopedia of Double Bass Drumming at moderndrummer.com 11
Modern Drummer February 2023 69
 TEACHER’S FORUM

Understanding the Language of Music

A Drummer’s Guide to Theory and Harmony
By Ron Spagnardi

M odern Drummer founder Ron Spagnardi wrote an excellent book called Understanding the Language
of Music, a Drummer’s Guide to Theory and Harmony. This book spells out the basics of theory and
harmony in a very organized and easy to understand way. It is an excellent book for drummers looking to
learn about the language of music beyond drumming, and further their musicianship. This month we will
start to reprint the parts of Ron’s book here in Modern Drummer for everyone to read and learn. Here is how
Ron introduced his book and subject (with a couple of my small additions.)

Have you ever noticed how many of the world’s most influential get a handle on scales, voicings, and chord structure. You also
drummers have a deeper understanding of music, and some learn why certain things work musically and others don’t, in
experience on another instrument? Take, for example, the piano accordance with the rules of music that have been handed
skills of Jack DeJohnette, Gary Husband, and Philly Joe Jones. down. A deeper knowledge can add to your appreciation of
Then there’s Elvin Jones, Jim Black, and Dave Grohl’s guitar different types of music, and have a major influence on how
playing… Joe Morello’s early training as you relate to your bandmates from a musical
a classical violinist… Louie Bellson, Tony perspective. And if you’ve ever had the
Williams, Mike Portnoy, Dennis Mackrel, desire to write or arrange, it can open the
Stewart Copeland, Terri Lyne Carrington, and door to that as well.
Gavin Harrison’s composing and arranging In order to gain maximum benefit from
abilities. Phil Collins, Narada Michael the lessons that will be in this column, you’ll
Walden, Don Henley, and Roger Taylor’s need to access a keyboard instrument. A
songwriting talents… Max Roach and Cindy piano would be the obvious first choice.
Blackman’s understanding of theory and However, an organ, a synthesizer, or a simple
harmony, and Alan Dawson’s skill on vibes. 5 octave portable keyboard unit with 61
Learning a secondary instrument, keys will suffice. It’s essential to hear, see,
combined with an understanding of the and practice the wealth of information that
language of music, will undoubtedly make will be presented here
you a more musical drummer. When you For those who feel they have little time in
know more about melody, harmony, scales, their schedule to learn another instrument,
and chords, you become more of a total bear in mind that it’s not our purpose to turn
musician. And as a total musician, you’re you into a virtuoso keyboard player. Helping
much more valuable as a drummer in just you to understand the essentials of music
about any situation. theory via the keyboard is our only objective
There’s really no need to be in the here.
dark when your keyboard player says, Throughout these lessons we’ll be
let’s substitute a Db 9 chord for the G7 on the fourth bar of discussing many things you may have heard of before, but
the chorus. Or when your guitarist suggests a I, VI, II, V chord never really understood. We’ll be shedding light on key
progression at the bridge. If you want to know what’s going on signatures, scales, intervals, inversions, the Roman numeral
around you and contribute to the process of making music, you system, diatonic harmony, chord structure, progressions,
need to know more than eighth notes on the hi hat and a snare voicings, alterations, extensions, and more. We’ll start out with
drum backbeat. the basics and gradually proceed to a more advanced level.
There are many ways to obtain the knowledge you need. Sure, it’s a lot to absorb. But it should be no more difficult than
Guitar is a great instrument for understanding more about when you had to master the double stroke roll or develop your
chord progressions. Learning bass can help you understand hand and foot coordination.
why your bass player chose a particular bass line on a tune. We’ll begin with keyboard recognition and note names.
However, I found that a general understanding of a keyboard Study and practice the columns in the coming months, and
instrument is the fastest and easiest way to learn the basics. you’ll be amazed at how quickly your understanding of theory
Once you grasp the mechanics of a keyboard, it’s like having and harmony will expand. Who knows? Eventually, when your
an entire orchestra at your fingertips. Melody, theory, harmony, keyboard player calls for that Db 9 chord on the fourth bar of
and chord progressions all come together right there in front of the chorus, not only will you know what he’s talking about, you
you. The keyboard offers an opportunity to visually and aurally may even be able to suggest an A minor instead!

70 Modern Drummer February 2023

Before we can begin our study of the language of music, we Vertical bar lines separate one group of notes from another on
need to have a good understanding of the basics of music the staff.
notation. So here goes.
Music is notated on a staff made-up of five lines and four
spaces.
The treble clef sign identifies notes above middle C on the
keyboard. These notes are most commonly played by the right
hand.
Notes are placed on the five lines and within the four spaces.

The bass clef sign identifies notes below middle C on the

keyboard. These notes are generally played by the left hand.

Let’s get familiar with the layout of the keyboard. Look at the example below and notice the pattern of white keys spaced
between a series of three and then two black keys. Note below how the pattern repeats itself along the keyboard.

All of the keys on the keyboard are named in relation to the first seven letters of the alphabet: A, B, C, D, E, F, G. Every white
key can be easily recognized by its position in relation to a black key group. Notice in the example that follows where the
seven lettered notes appear in relation to the black keys.

Here’s an entire keyboard that includes the letter names of all the white notes. Notice the repetition up and down the
keyboard. Study the layout and be able to identify all of the white notes on the keyboard.

Remember the five lines and four spaces we discussed earlier? Below you’ll find all of the notes placed on the treble and
bass clefs. Starting with middle C, the right-hand treble clef notes move upward in alphabetical sequence (C, D, E, F, G, A,
B, C, etc) while the left hand bass clef notes move downward (C, B, A, G, F, E, D, C, etc.)

Study the example below to see how the notes on the staff correspond with the keys on the keyboard.

Check out Ron’s Modern

Drummer profile page
and get your copy of
Understanding The
It’s essential to familiarize yourself with all the notes on the treble and bass clefs and where they Language Of Music at
moderndrummer.com
appear on the keyboard. Be sure to spend the time necessary to absorb all of the material above.

Modern Drummer February 2023 71

 COLLECTOR’S CORNER

Jerry Shirley’s Humble Pie Ludwig Roses Set

By, Donn Bennett

Y ou never know what you’ll find on

Craigslist. What initially looked like
the crappiest set of drums I’ve ever seen,
turned out to be one of the greatest
and most iconic rock and roll drum sets
of our time with a long and fascinating
story.
I’ve been dealing in used drums for a
long time. I started long before eBay and
Reverb, and actually long before there
even was an internet. I’ve seen some
crappy drum sets, but this one took the
cake. Fundamentally it was a great set,
but it had definitely seen better days.
Actually, that’s a dramatic understate-
ment. This set lived the rock and roll
dream!!! In it’s heyday, this set was used
to whip concert audiences into a rock n’
roll frenzy in the world’s biggest concert
venues and to record some of the most
classic rock songs of our time. Like a lot
of rock n’ roll dreams it also saw some Marriott and Frampton were already was giving and stand out on some the
dark times and was eventually put out to well-established rock stars and their new world’s biggest stages. Jerry also wanted
pasture as the house set in a smoky bar band, called Humble Pie, would become the drums to be as loud as possible. He
in Portland, OR. known as the first ever “Super Group.” By commissioned the Ludwig drum com-
The story of this set began in 1968, 1970, Humble Pie was touring hard and pany to build him this set with a 14x26
when a 16-year-old drummer named establishing themselves as a top live act, bass drum, a 12x14 mounted tom and a
Jerry Shirley, passed his audition for and it was time for Jerry Shirley to get pair of 16x16 and 16x18 floor toms. The
Steve Marriott and Peter Frampton, and himself a new drum set. His new drums shells were Ludwig’s 3-ply shells with re-
landed a gig in their new band. Both needed to take the pounding that he inforcing rings and clear maple interiors.
He felt that Ludwig’s standard wrapped
Cortex finishes inhibited a drum’s reso-
nance, so with the help of Ludwig Artist
Relations manager Bill Ludwig III, they
chose a custom matte white painted
finish.
Jerry chose a Supraphonic 400 5x14
aluminum shelled snare that was
eventually replaced with a Supraphonic
402 6.5x14 model. He completed the
set with Paiste 602 cymbals and Rogers
cymbal stands. He used a Ludwig Speed
King bass pedal with a custom-made
extended beater that allowed it to hit
the 26” bass drum dead center where it
produced the loudest and fattest note
possible.
Robert Ellis

Between 1970 and 1972, Humble Pie

recorded three top selling albums that
included their classic hits “I Don’t Need
No Doctor,” “Thirty Days in the Hole,” and

72 Modern Drummer February 2023

“Hot ’n’ Nasty.” The band toured almost door of drummers hurriedly trying to ad- Initially my plan was to restore the set
non-stop. Around 1972, and during a just things in the few minutes between to it’s original condition. I even tracked
short break in their schedule, Jerry once songs and bands. I think that’s where the down Jerry Shirley on FaceBook and told
again asked Bill Ludwig III for a favor. Roses set got so beat up. him of my plans. He had seen photos of
Jerry wanted his drums painted with a Around 2010 a friend of mine sent his set in it’s current state and was sad-
custom graphic design. Custom graphics me a link to a Craigslist ad in Vancouver, dened by the way it had been neglect-
were not something that Ludwig offered BC showing what appeared to be the ed. However, he was excited to see my
at the time, so Bill asked one of the Roses set. It was in really rough shape, restoration. Once I’d cleaned the set up
ladies in his office whose husband was a but everything appeared to be correct. (as much as I could,) I started looking for
sign painter to tackle the job. According After several phone calls and emails, I someone to restore the finish. Unfortu-
to Jerry’s instructions, a hand painted eventually bought the set. I had to call in nately, I soon found that the finish had
rose should appear on each panel of ev- some favors from a couple of my Cana- deteriorated too far to restore. The only
ery drum. In addition, a continuous gold
pinstripe should be above and below
each rose. The painter charged Shirley
a whopping $70 for the entire job. I’m
guessing he was probably a Humble Pie
fan! The “Roses Set” as it became known,
can be seen in live photos of the band
from 1972 until they broke up in 1975.
Jerry loved the Roses Set and kept
it in immaculate condition the entire
time he played with Humble Pie. After
the band broke up, with bills to pay, no
place to store the set, and the assump-
tion that Humble Pie would soon be
Shane Peck

forgotten, Jerry Shirley sold the set. The

buyer was Tony Machine. He was the
drummer in David Johansen’s fledgling
alter ego band, Buster Poindexter and
the Banshees of Blue. With Tony Machine
behind the Roses Set (now using just the
bass drum and one floor tom,) Buster dian drum buddies. First, Kyle Radomsky way to make it look like new was to strip
Poindexter held a steady house gig at from Drumeo agreed to let the seller the existing finish from the drum and
Tramps nightclub in Manhattan. In the deliver it to their studio near Vancouver, start over. The end result would have
late 1980s the band scored a major hit then drum builder Ronn Dunnett agreed been stunning, but the historian in me
(and heavy MTV rotation) with their to pick it up at Drumeo and deliver it to couldn’t justify stripping that historic
song “Hot! Hot! Hot!” Buster Poindexter me in Seattle, Washington while he was finish, no matter how badly deteriorat-
and the Banshees of Blue built a cult fol- delivering a load of snare drums. ed it was. The battle-scarred finish was
lowing amongst Manhattan hipsters and actually growing on me. It looked kind
their shows were regularly attended by of heroic, like it went through the hell of
New York’s biggest stars. If you search on war but was still standing and ready for
YouTube, you’ll find a grainy 1984 video duty.
of Keith Richards and Delbert McClinton Enter plan “B.” I decided to “relic” a new
both joining Buster Poindexter onstage Ludwig 12x14” shell to look like the rest
at Tramps with Tony Machine sitting of the set. My pal Uli Salzar at Ludwig
behind the Roses Set. In the photos I’ve supplied me with a bare Legacy Maple
seen, the drums still looked to be in shell and my dear friend, bandmate, and
great shape. artist P.A. Mathison did an amazing job
At this point the history of the Roses matching the finish to the original set.
Set gets murky. The set, now missing the She also recreated the original Aubrey
rack tom, eventually found it’s way to a Beardsley graphic for the Humble Pie
dark corner of a Portland, Oregon bar logo bass drum head. I absolutely loved
where it was being used as the house the way it turned out.
kit for an open mic night. If you’ve ever The art of relic-ing has been popular
seen a house kit in a rock bar, you know for years in the guitar world. People pay
The roses set before the roses courtesy
they take a lot of abuse from a revolving of the Jerry Shirley photo collection a lot of money for new guitars that are

Modern Drummer February 2023 73

 made to look old and beat up. I predict passed and had been a great inspiration side, straight up and down in the vertical
you’ll see the same thing happen in the and supporter of Jerry’s drumming. position. Once I had hit the drum, I let the
drum world before too long. There are I also asked Jerry Shirley about tuning beater come back all the way, imagine a
already companies like Joyful Noise and his drums for his huge Humble Pie sound, karate kick or a fast boxer jabbing, that’s
A&F Drums building beautiful new, yet he replied, “The secret to those big old how I got it to sound so loud and deep.
old looking drums. 26” bass drums is all in the tuning and I was known for how loud I played, and
I sent Jerry Shirley photos of the com- the beater. I used a Speed King with an that kit was a big part of it. The rest of

Robert Ellis
pleted set, looking forward to his excited extended arm that was long enough to the kit was tuned as low as possible too.
response. That didn’t happen! To say the hit the drum dead center. I hit hard, espe- The bottom skins were tuned higher than
least, Jerry was extremely unhappy and cially on the bass drum. I never rested my the top, so the toms had a deep after
I felt like a first-class schmuck! He was foot on the pedal. I was forever stomping tone and not a high ping. The snare was
appalled that an artist’s talents were on it, “dancing on it” (if you like,) rather tuned very high. The top head was tuned
wasted recreating a hopelessly abused than resting my heel on the bottom of high, so it had a loud crack to it, and the
drum when the same talents could have the foot plate. This meant my foot was bottom head was tuned higher than the
been used to start over and restore the landing on the pedal from some height. top.”
set to it’s original beauty. I sent him a long I also had the beater set up so that it In life, and in drumming, a little honest
apologetic email and was deeply honored was as far back from the skin as possible, communication goes a long way. After
by his response. He said because I was so it had a long way to travel to hit the his initial displeasure regarding this set’s
sincere and honest enough in my apology drum with maximum velocity. The beater restoration, Jerry and I could have easily
that he felt comfortable enough to share was so far back that it was parallel with traded insults and written each other off.
his feelings about this set, and why seeing the ground, meaning it was completely Instead, we’ve become great internet
it’s current condition was difficult for him. horizontal. The beater itself was felt, both pals and discovered we are extremely
He went on to say that the set was a trib- front and back skins were tuned as low as like-minded on a wide range of topics.
ute to his father who was also a drummer they could possibly be without wrinkles We’re also scheming about a new project
and had a white 1930s Premier drum set appearing, plus there was no hole in the involving his legendary Roses Set. I
with gold pin striping. His father was a front skin. I used two felt damping strips should have more to tell you about that in
master gardener and grew prized roses. on each skin front and back. They were one of my upcoming columns.
The gold stripes and the roses design placed about halfway between the center
paid tribute to his father who had since of the drum and the far edge of each

74 Modern Drummer February 2023

 Presents: Lessons From The Greats
The Joe Morello Collection

Master Studies Master Studies II

This book focuses on these important Like Master Studies, this is a
aspects: accent studies, buzz-roll workbook of material to use in
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patterns, control studies, flam patterns, Challenging exercises encourage
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Rudimental Jazz
The precursor to his two most widely used instructional books – Master Studies and Master Studies II – this book
covers: techniques such as right and left hand grips, playing position, striking the snare drum & hi-hat and more;
beginning exercises; drum beats; teacher’s charts; graphic cutouts and more.

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Modern Drummer February 2023 75
 OUT NOW!

Phil Seamen:
Percussion Genius, Legendary Rebel, and Born Raver By Peter Dawn
Story by Mark Griffith

O ne day in late 2022, my phone rang,

it was drum industry stalwart John
DeChristopher telling me that fellow
and Born Raver, has done much more
than “shed some light” on Phil. The book
details his entire life in painstaking
This book deserved much more than
a review. I wanted to go directly to the
source and find out how and why this
drum industry vet Colin Schofield was detail. In the 600 plus pages, we learn book was made. I wanted to know why
trying to get in touch with me. I emailed precisely what made Phil tick. Peter it took so long for someone to grab the
Colin only to learn about a brand new explores all aspects of Seamen’s musical reins of Phil Seamen’s life and squeeze
book and an author that (according to career, drumming genius, personal life, it between the covers of a book. After
Colin,) I should know about. If it was and his tragic demise that was shrouded reading the book, I wanted to learn
good enough for Colin and Johnny D, it in mystery. There could not be a more even more about Phil, if that was indeed
deserved a close look. The subject of the entertaining story to tell. possible. It was.
book was Phil Seamen, and the author
was Peter Dawn. A few weeks later the
book arrived, and I started reading!
Even amongst some drummers,
Phil Seamen is not a household name,
but he should be. He is the patriarch
of the British drumset tradition. His
place in the annals of British modern
jazz is paralleled only by the legendary
saxophonist (and club owner) Ronnie
Scott. Throughout the years, Seamen’s
praises have been sung by everyone
from Ginger Baker, to Carl Palmer, to
Charlie Watts, and beyond. However,
very little was known about Phil, his
life, his career, or his many recordings…
Until now!
Enter author Peter Dawn. Peter
grew up in the same town as Phil,
he went to the same school, and he
walked the same streets. Peter is an
avid record collector, music lover. In
his years working in law, psychology,
and human resources, he has become
a master interviewer and researcher.
After retiring, Peter turned his finely
tuned communication skills and his
love of music towards the subject
of Phil Seamen. For years there had
been rumors in Burton on Trent about
someone writing a biography on Phil,
with the aim of shedding some light
on this supremely talented yet tragic
figure of the British jazz scene. Today,
the mystery is over, and the book has
arrived.
Peter Dawn’s new book Phil Seamen:
Percussion Genius, Legendary Rebel,

76 Modern Drummer February 2023

MD: What was the inspiration behind like Stan Tracey, Tony Kinsey, and life, and that subject intersected with his
writing this book? Don Rendell. I found a promoter from drug use.
PD: There had been rumors for many Manchester named Ernie Garside that MD: So many drummers revere Phil
years that someone was writing a had known Phil. Josie Barber (Ronnie Seamen, what drummers did you
book on Phil’s life, but nothing ever Scott’s niece,) who Phil got engaged to interview about Phil?
materialized. In 2006 I started by tracing and Leonie Craven who Phil married, PD: Rod Brown studied with Phil when
Phil’s musical career through collecting both agreed to be interviewed. I he was 18, and he gave me exercises that
mainly vinyl recordings of his work as discovered that the British Library had Phil wrote out and he wrote out other
a sideman. It took about five years to interviews on reel-to-reel tape with drum exercises that Phil had taught him.
find around 100 recordings as some musicians who had died, such as Ronnie Geoff Moss who now lives in France did
are quite rare. After I compiled a draft Scott, Kenny Clarke, Joe Harriott and the same. These exercises are included
discography, I started seeing the names Jack Parnell. Those recordings hadn’t in the drumming chapter, as are some
of the different musicians that he had seen the light of day for over forty exercises that Phil taught Ginger Baker.
played with, I found the ones who were years, and they were digitalized for me. Ronnie Parry was a contemporary of
still alive, and I started interviewing
them in 2011. All told, I interviewed
about 240 people for the book. Throughout the years, Seamen’s praises have
I grew up about a mile away from
where Phil was raised and lived, I saw been sung by everyone from Ginger Baker, to
Carl Palmer, to Charlie Watts, and beyond.
him play once at a club called the Eight
Bar Rest in our hometown of Burton on
Trent. When Phil was in the club, a ripple
of excitement would go around that “Phil However, very little was known about Phil, his life,
is here.” I already knew many of the local
semi-professional musicians that Phil his career, or his many recordings… Until now!
came up and had worked with him early
on, I started by interviewing them. When
I started to interview the professionals I quickly learned of the reverence that Phil’s and we talked quite a bit, I also
that he worked with in London, I started surrounded Phil. So many people and interviewed Tommy Chase who was
to learn about his far-reaching musical musicians wanted to talk to me about very forthcoming. Jon Hiseman and
and drumming influence. I interviewed Phil, and they all seemed relieved that I spent five hours talking about Phil
Chris Welch who was the Features Editor someone was finally researching Phil’s about three months before Jon died. I
for Melody Maker. Chris knew Phil and life and was going to tell his story. also interviewed John Marshall. John
had interviewed him several times MD: Were you prepared for the surprises and Geoff Nicholls actually edited and
for Melody Maker. Chris later agreed that Phil’s story provided, and the trials proofed the drumming chapter just to
to be my editor for the book. I also and tribulations that he went through? be sure everything was correct.
interviewed Michael Baird (a drummer PD: When you are interviewing people, Charlie Watts and I spoke extensively
from Holland, not the LA drummer of you have to learn the fine art of shutting about Phil, Charlie adored and idolized
the same name) who had written the up. You get the real gems after those him. Charlie actually wrote the Foreword
booklet for the CD The Late Great Phil pregnant pauses, and through just of the book and let me include a
Seamen, that he put out on his SWP letting people speak. You seem to do drawing of Phil that Charlie created
label. It was Michael who told me about that very well. I didn’t know anything when he heard that Phil died. It was
the African rhythms that Phil had built about the drug side of things, that was Charlie who arranged my interview with
into his drumming. Interviewing Chris a complete surprise. I was also unaware Ginger Baker, and Ginger and I talked for
and Michael was when I really knew that that many of the musicians in Phil’s time about three hours at his house down in
this was an important subject. were Scottish, and many of them also Canterbury.
Then I moved on to the more well- happened to be Jewish. Although Phil MD: Jon Hiseman, John Marshall, and
known musicians that Phil had worked wasn’t Jewish, the antisemitism of the (of course) Charlie Watts, those are
with, starting with legendary names day had an unfortunate effect on Phil’s legendary drummers. How did your

Modern Drummer February 2023 77

 interview with Ginger go? drummer Tiny Kahn was using the American film maker wanted Gordon to
PD: I knew he had the reputation of being matched grip very early on as well. As write Phil’s life story so that he could turn
a bit prickly. He had done the interview to who was first Phil or Tiny? I don’t it into a film.
for the movie Beware of Mr. Baker about know. I know Phil started playing drums I believe that the fact that someone
three months before we talked. Before I professionally in 1946 in England, and had actually asked Phil about his life
interviewed Ginger, I asked Chris Welch Tiny started professionally in 1948 in story was the spark behind the recording
for some advice. He told me that I knew New York. There are many lessons and of the rare LP The Phil Seamen Story. But
my subject, and to stick to it. He told me revelations in your book. What was your Phil didn’t want to do a film until after his
to only ask Ginger questions about Phil, biggest takeaway from writing the book? parents had died, and unfortunately Phil
and if I did, I would be OK. About a half PD: Ultimately, it was a waste of talent. died before his parents, so nothing ever
came of it.
About a half hour into our interview, Ginger There hasn’t been much written about
the post-war music scene in Britain.

smiled and said, “I’m actually enjoying this.” People start talking about English music
in the late 50s with Skiffle and rock and

After that he really opened up, we got along roll. But Phil’s story is also a picture of the
music scene and the jazz musicians after

very well, and the interview went great. the war, and how those musicians and
that scene contributed to the beginning
of rock and roll in the 60s.
hour into our interview, Ginger smiled God gave Phil an abundance of talent, MD: That is another very intersting aspect
and said, “I’m actually enjoying this.” After and in the end, he knew that he had to your book, that is an ignored part of
that he really opened up, we got along blown it. Phil enjoyed himself and he music history. This is a riveting book, and
very well, and the interview went great. didn’t compromise. Phil’s one ambition a spellbinding tale of drumming and
Ginger was going to write the Foreword was to become a drummer, and he loved music history from an era of music that is
for the book, but he died before he could making people happy with his music. He rarely discussed. From my own listening
put pen to paper. That is when Charlie achieved both things. and previous research, Phil Seamen was a
agreed to write the Foreword. With so many musicians, all you can great drummer, and an intriguing human
MD: What did Charlie Watts tell you about talk about with them is their music, but being, I’m so glad you wrote this. Phil
Phil? Charlie and I spoke once or twice Phil was much more than that. He had a Seamen: Percussion Genius, Legendary
about Phil, and I can still remember the natural wit, he led an outrageous lifestyle, Rebel, and Born Raver is a book that many
sparkle in his eye when he talked about he was a born rebel, but people respected drummers will enjoy. While they are
him. him. There is also a beautiful, yet sad, love enjoying Phil’s story, they will also learn
PD: Phil was Charlie Watts’ hero. The story in Phil’s life, and in the end, there a great deal about drumming and life.
first time that Charlie got his passport was a tragic accident too. The accident It is one of the best biographies about a
and travelled abroad, he went to Paris contributed towards his death. There has musician that I have ever read.
to hear Phil play at the Blue Note. That always been some mystery surrounding PD: Thank you very much.
was the reason he got his first passport. his death.
Charlie told me that Phil influenced an
entire generation of British drummers.
According to Charlie, Phil was the first
There hasn’t been much written about the
drummer in England of any standing to
use the matched grip on the drumset post-war music scene in Britain. People
exclusively. John Marshall told me how
Phil popularized the matched grip, and as start talking about English music in the
rock and roll became popular in England,
many of the rock drummers latched on to late 50s with Skiffle and rock and roll.
that grip while most of the jazz drummers
were still using the traditional grip. Then MD: Phil’s story is simply fascinating. Peter has self-published the book. He has
when the British rock drummers got to Do you think there might be a movie also had remastered over 100 recordings
the States, American drummers saw the adaptation? It’s got a little bit of that Phil played on that are available for
matched grip that Phil had used and everything! download. For more information and to buy
had been adopted by the British rock PD: There has been some talk about that. the book, go to: philseamen.com Peter can
drummers and adopted it for themselves. When Phil was alive, he was approached be contacted at [email protected]
Is that something that you would agree by Gordon Williams who wrote a book
with? called The Siege of Trencher’s Farm. They
MD: I do know that American jazz made it into a film called Straw Dogs. An

78 Modern Drummer February 2023

A new era of Modern Drummer is upon us, with an updated return to
print, a refreshed website, a new membership program, and more!
As of January 1st, 2023, Modern Drummer is under new management, having merged with Consequence
Media. In the short term, we will be publishing print issues on a bi-monthly basis beginning in February 2023.
From there, we will relaunch Modern Drummer’s website with an easy-to-navigate archive, exclusive features,
and other premium content, while also working towards creating a more premium print product.

As an existing annual active subscriber (print+digital), you will automatically receive a one-year subscription
to Modern Drummer’s revamped All Access program (a $340 value) — free of charge. It’s our gift to you, a
gesture to show our commitment to Modern Drummer and the readers who’ve read it page-to-page over the
last 47 years.

Modern Drummer All Access includes:

• Digital Subscription
• 6 physical copies of Modern Drummer, sent bi-monthly
• Access to exclusive giveaways and meet and greets
• Modern Drummer t-shirt and hat
• Modern Drummer Masterclass
• And even more to be announced in the months ahead

The newest print issue of Modern Drummer (January/February 2023) will be shipped by March 15th, with
subsequent issues shipping bi-monthly. Modern Drummer will continue to publish a new digital issue monthly
on the first of each month.

Your exclusive Modern Drummer shirt or hat will start shipping by March 15. We have a limited supply of MD
merchandise and shipments that will be released as new inventory is available in the upcoming months.

Thank you, and we look forward to showing you all of the exciting things to come. If you have any questions
regarding your subscription please send us an email to [email protected].

— David Frangioni
CEO, Modern Drummer Publications

Modern Drummer February 2023 79

EYE CANDY

Rogers 1960s Gold Louie Bellson and Sammy Davis Jr. Kit

T his Rogers kit was originally owned

and used by Louie Bellson in the
1960s. Noted drum historian and drum
shop owner Steve Maxwell once owned
the kit, and he provides the following
description: the kit features two 14X24
bass drums, a 9X13 tom, two 16X16
floor toms, a 5X14 Rogers Dynasonic
snare drum, and a canister throne. All
the drum hardware as well as the brass
shell of the snare drum is entirely gold
plated. The bass drums have the original
Louie Bellson logo front heads. The bass
drums also feature a gold-plated metal
plate with Louie’s signature; the set is
complete with all the original Rogers
gold plated hardware, as well as all of as a gesture of friendship, Louie loaned This comes from the book
Louie’s original cymbals. this set to Sammy. Being owned and Crash: The World’s Greatest
used extensively by Louie Bellson makes Drum Kits, available at
“Louie Bellson was one of Sammy Davis it a fantastic collector’s piece. But the moderndrummer.com
Jr.’s favorite drummers and they had a fact that it was also played by Sammy
close friendship for many years. Sammy Davis Jr. raises it to one-of-a-kind iconic
was an excellent drummer himself, and status.”

80 Modern Drummer February 2023

 The
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