replaced two-step processing part #84

himorin · 2022-03-18T06:57:58Z

closes #74, NOTE: conflicts to #75

use ruby box and two level, with new text from Bin-sensei.
still wip.

original Japanese text: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-japanese/2022JanMar/0037.html
but could be updated later.

Preview | Diff

murata2makoto

I am not sure if I can improve Shimono-san's English. But let me try

The first level determines the relative positions of ruby base and ruby annotations and creates ruby boxes. Meanwhile, the second level determines the position of ruby boxes in lines. In other words, the relative positions of ruby base and ruby annotation as decided in the first level are not modified in light of any characters or line edges preceding or following ruby boxes.

murata2makoto · 2022-03-18T08:37:00Z

As of now, " Two levels are processed as following, with using ruby column for paired ruby annotation...." is hard to understand. Do we really need this?

himorin · 2022-03-22T09:56:50Z

As of now, " Two levels are processed as following, with using ruby column for paired ruby annotation...." is hard to understand. Do we really need this?

Yeah... really wondering how to locally define two words here..

himorin · 2022-04-18T07:07:34Z

drafting back and forth for a while,,, how about something like below?

two-level processing specific terms are not clearly defined
align with provided text

<li id="l20200529009">Processing is done in two levels.
    The first level only determines relative positions of ruby annotation and its base. 
    Meanwhile, the second level determines inline positions of <a>ruby boxes</a>. 
    In other words, relative positions of the ruby annotation and its base text as decided in the first level 
    are not modified by the second level such as in light of any characters or line edge preceding and following the <a>ruby box</a>.
    Two levels are processed as following:
    <ol>
    <li id="l20220318001">The first level takes pairs of ruby annotation and its base text 
        and parameters required for procesing such as available space in inline direction in the current line, 
        but does not take any preceding or following characters. 
        The first level outputs one or more untransparent <a>ruby boxes</a>, which have relative position of ruby annotation to its base.</li>
    <li id="l20220318002">The second level takes a size of untransparent <a>ruby box</a> and its preceding and following text, 
        and outputs styled text.</li>
    </ol>
</li>

index.html

r12a · 2022-08-05T11:34:38Z

index.html

-        but without any preceding or following characters, 
-        and outputs one or more untransparent <a>ruby box</a>.</li>
-    <li id="l20220318002">The second level takes a size and preceding and following text of <a>ruby boxes</a>, 
+    <li id="l20220318001">The first level takes pairs of ruby annotation and its base text 


Suggested edits:
The first level takes pairs of ruby base and its annotation, including parameters needed for processing, such as available space in the inline direction of the current line. The first level outputs one or more [ruby boxes], that indicate the position of the ruby annotation with respect to its base.
The second level looks at the size of untransparent [ruby box] and its surrounding text, and outputs styled text.

I'm not clear what 'untransparent' means (i haven't looked around the document for an explanation).

Thank you for comment on this. For 'untransparent', there is still discussion on terminology and explanation even in Japanese, and we are seeking better (and clearer?) text for this part...

text updated per discussion within JL-TF. 'untransparent' has gone.

@r12a

following a suggestion from @r12a

himorin · 2023-02-07T13:16:05Z

drafting back and forth for a while,,, how about something like below?

After several offline conversations and discussions,,, how about as following: @murata2makoto @kidayasuo ?

<li id="l20200529009">Processing is done in two levels.
     The first level only determines relative positions of ruby annotation and its base.
     Meanwhile, the second level determines inline positions of <a>ruby boxes</a>.
     In other words, relative positions of the ruby annotation and its base text as decided in the first level
     are not referenced nor modified by the second level such as in light of any characters or line edge preceding and following the <a>ruby box</a>.
     Two levels are processed as following:
     <ol>
     <li id="l20220318001">The first level takes pairs of ruby base and its annotation
         including parameters needed for processing, such as available space in the inline direction of the current line,
         but excluding any preceding or following characters to the ruby base.
         The first level outputs one or more <a>ruby boxes</a>, that indicate the outside size of <a>ruby boxes</a>
         and the position of the ruby annotation with respect to its base.</li>
     <li id="l20220318002">The second level looks at the outside size of <a>ruby box</a> and its surrounding text,
         and outputs styled text.</li>
     </ol>
</li>

kidayasuo

Changes look good. thank you!

kidayasuo · 2023-04-28T00:34:57Z

Is the only change adding the PDF after my approval?

himorin · 2023-04-30T15:03:49Z

Is the only change adding the PDF after my approval?

Update of PDF is not limited to this PR, since it's not updated as diff but by one binary, so PDF will be updated in parallel as #83

kidayasuo

I am fine with the fix. thank you!

r12a

In addition to the specific comments here, i think the document needs a thorough edit for English wording. I may be able to help, if i can find time for it, but probably best wait until these and other issues are resolved.

We should also not forget to ask the i18n WG to review the document at some point - probably after the edit for English, to avoid getting many reports of editorial nits.

r12a · 2023-05-15T15:57:12Z

index.html

+<li id="l20200529009">Processing is done in two levels.
+    The first level only determines relative positions of ruby annotation and its base.
+    Meanwhile, the second level determines inline positions of <a>ruby boxes</a>.
+    In other words, relative positions of the ruby annotation and its base text as decided in the first level


This is a very, very long sentence, and gets a little confusing towards the end. Can it be broken up? For example, we might be able to say:
In other words, the relative positions of the ruby annotation and its base text, as decided in the first level, are not referenced nor modified by the second level. For example, this is not affected by..., except where....

r12a · 2023-05-15T16:05:43Z

index.html

-    To summarise, the relative positions decided in the first step are not 
-    modified by the second step at all.</li>
+<li id="l20200529009">Processing is done in two levels.
+    The first level only determines relative positions of ruby annotation and its base.


suggestion:
...relative positions of each ruby annotation...

Suggested change

The first level only determines relative positions of ruby annotation and its base.

The first level only determines relative positions of each ruby annotation and its base.

r12a · 2023-05-15T16:07:12Z

index.html

+<li id="l20200529009">Processing is done in two levels.
+    The first level only determines relative positions of ruby annotation and its base.
+    Meanwhile, the second level determines inline positions of <a>ruby boxes</a>.
+    In other words, relative positions of the ruby annotation and its base text as decided in the first level


I think we can drop 'Meanwhile'. Either that or replace it with 'On the other hand' if you want to stress the distinction, though i think having 2 levels already does that.

I just read the previous version of this sentence, and it seems much clearer. What was the goal in rewriting it?

r12a · 2023-05-15T16:12:23Z

index.html

+    which may be used by the second level for removing spacing of the characters preceding or following the <a>ruby box</a>.
+    Two levels are processed as following:
+    <ol>
+    <li id="l20220318001">The first level takes pairs of ruby base and its annotation


The numbered list items here seem to just repeat what was already said. Are they useful?

The phrase " and outputs styled text" seems a little vague. What is styled, and how? Is the meaning simply that it outputs a ruby block that is integrated with the surrounding text?

himorin · 2023-05-17T11:34:47Z

index.html

-    modified by the second step at all.</li>
+<li id="l20200529009">Processing is done in two levels.
+    The first level only determines relative positions of ruby annotation and its base.
+    Meanwhile, the second level determines inline positions of <a>ruby boxes</a>.


Suggested change

Meanwhile, the second level determines inline positions of <a>ruby boxes</a>.

The second level determines inline positions of <a>ruby boxes</a>.

kidayasuo · 2024-12-05T06:57:15Z

If we already have a fix that is reasonable we can go ahead. Otherwise we can process the original issue as not-to-be-fixed. What do you think?

replaced two-step processing part

7156a70

himorin requested review from kidayasuo and murata2makoto March 18, 2022 06:57

himorin added 3 commits March 18, 2022 15:59

fix syntax

40d9d36

clarify

fb7c69a

generalize handling of box in the second level

3912fd6

murata2makoto reviewed Mar 18, 2022

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fix, as comment

f68c288

r12a reviewed Aug 5, 2022

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r12a requested changes Aug 5, 2022

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Update index.html

59c39d9

following a suggestion from @r12a

update text of two level processing.

118462c

kidayasuo approved these changes Apr 19, 2023

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himorin requested review from kidayasuo, murata2makoto and r12a April 19, 2023 07:57

himorin mentioned this pull request Apr 20, 2023

two-step processing method to two-level processing method? #74

Open

himorin changed the title ~~[WIP] replaced two-step processing part~~ replaced two-step processing part Apr 20, 2023

himorin mentioned this pull request Apr 20, 2023

updated ruby-rules-ja.pdf per 2_27 #83

Merged

kidayasuo approved these changes May 11, 2023

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r12a requested changes May 15, 2023

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himorin commented May 17, 2023

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	The first level only determines relative positions of ruby annotation and its base.
	The first level only determines relative positions of each ruby annotation and its base.

	Meanwhile, the second level determines inline positions of <a>ruby boxes</a>.
	The second level determines inline positions of <a>ruby boxes</a>.

replaced two-step processing part #84

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replaced two-step processing part #84

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